❦ 18 juillet 2013 01:00 CEST, Wouter Verhelst :
>> Alsa is a completely different layer in the sound stack. It doesn't even
>> make sense to compare these two.
>
> They're both APIs that applications can use to produce audio. What do
> you mean, it doesn't make sense?
>
> Of course they're not t
On 18-07-13 06:23, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 07/18/2013 01:00 AM, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>> They're both APIs that applications can use to produce audio. What do
>> you mean, it doesn't make sense?
>>
>> Of course they're not the same thing; I get that. That's not what I'm
>> saying. Bu
On 07/18/2013 01:29 AM, Steve Langasek wrote:
> - Reliable, low-maintenance system startup (no races / ordering bugs)
Could you point at these bugs?
> - Reliable service supervision
Have you tried using rc-status? Or do you mean restarting crashed daemons?
> - Fast startup
I thought everyone c
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 03:15:12PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 07/18/2013 01:29 AM, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > - Reliable, low-maintenance system startup (no races / ordering bugs)
>
> Could you point at these bugs?
>
> > - Reliable service supervision
>
> Have you tried using rc-status? Or
2013/7/18 William Giokas <1007...@gmail.com>:
> Having not used OpenRC, I have no comment on the real world advantages
> or disadvantages of either init system
I'm a user of Gentoo and Debian.
I do not care of what to type: 'emerge -avuND world' or 'apt-get upgrade'
I do not care of which init s
I notice one of my package fails on hurd-i386, kfreebsd-* and sparc due
to various dependencies:
https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=resiprocate&suite=sid
and it appears these dependencies have been unavailable for a long time.
The bottom line is that urgent fixes in the package are
On 07/18/2013 04:30 PM, William Giokas wrote:
> If you're going to cite something showing that OpenRC is good, please
> don't show something that is so obviously biased it's not even funny
> anymore.
I agree that this wiki page is obviously biased, and that is to be
expected at the wiki.gentoo.org
Daniel Pocock, le Thu 18 Jul 2013 12:46:28 +0200, a écrit :
> To avoid causing delays for users who want the fixes in testing, I'm
> tempted to just change "Architecture: any" and cut out those other
> platforms.
I'd say there is no need for this. If *your* package is supposed to
work on all plat
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 06:33:08PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> It's about the same on the other side when Lennart tells about Systemd
> "debunking myths".
If this wasn't about systemd, I'd ask for some arguments here.
But as all systemd discussions are full of FUD anyway, it won't help much
here
On 07/18/2013 09:15 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Talk:Comparison_of_init_systems
> "friendly upstreamyes no NO YES"
Really? You put something like this in a technical comparison chart?
And systemd has a graphical user interface?
Wow, I don't even...
John Paul Adrian Glaubitz writes:
> On 07/18/2013 09:15 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>>
>> http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Talk:Comparison_of_init_systems
>
>> "friendly upstream yes no NO YES"
>
> Really? You put something like this in a technical comparison chart?
A friendly upstream
On 07/18/2013 01:48 PM, Gergely Nagy wrote:
A friendly upstream *is* important in a comparsion chart. Working with
an unfriendly, or even hostile upstream is not something you want to
have in a core component of an operating system.
Friendliness has nothing to do with accepting every single pat
On Thu, Jun 06, 2013 at 11:35:46PM -0300, Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer
wrote:
> Hi everyone. First of all, I'm cross-posting this between legal and devel
> because I really don't know to which of them belongs (or maybe it does in
> both).
>
> The issue is this: Qt 5 has grown so large (8
On 18/07/13 12:12, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> And systemd has a graphical user interface?
Yes, systemadm(1) in systemd-ui. It was recently split into a separate
(upstream and Debian source) package. It's hardly comprehensive, but it
exists.
S
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-dev
On Sun, Jun 09, 2013 at 10:22:27PM +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: Neil Williams
>
> * Package name: vmdebootstrap
> Version : 0.1.0
> Upstream Author : Lars Wirzenius
> * URL : https://gitorious.org/vmdebootstrap
> * License
On Thu, 18 Jul 2013 09:14:56 +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> PulseAudio piles another layer of possible failures on top of a
> kernel driver, and hides most of the audio mixer for no particularly
> good reason other than "it might confuse the poor user". It just
> doesn't make any
On 07/18/2013 07:00 PM, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 06:33:08PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> It's about the same on the other side when Lennart tells about Systemd
>> "debunking myths".
> I'd ask for some arguments here.
This has already been discussed. You can look in th
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 09:15:48AM +0800, Chow Loong Jin wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 10:43:57PM +0200, Philipp Kern wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 07:56:24PM +0200, Anton Gladky wrote:
> > > So, I think the developer should have a set of tools (including gb and
> > > even "sli
On 07/18/2013 02:28 PM, Simon McVittie wrote:
On 18/07/13 12:12, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
And systemd has a graphical user interface?
Yes, systemadm(1) in systemd-ui. It was recently split into a separate
(upstream and Debian source) package. It's hardly comprehensive, but it
exists.
On 07/18/2013 07:12 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 07/18/2013 09:15 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>>
>> http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Talk:Comparison_of_init_systems
>
>> "friendly upstream yes no NO YES"
>
> Really? You put something like this in a technical comparison chart
On Thu, 18 Jul 2013 09:14:56 +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
How do I do that with just plain Alsa without using a text editor?
>>>
>>> In VLC:
>>>
>>> ctrl-p, go to the audio tab, and select the correct device in the
>>> "output" frame.
>>>
>>> That's not VLC-specific, FWIW; most applications
On Fri, Jul 05, 2013 at 10:14:54AM +0200, Thomas Hood wrote:
> Tad Frank wrote:
> > Your issue lies in the line: sed -e "s/$REGISTERED_IP/$CURRENT_IP/g"
> > /etc/hosts > /etc/hosts.new
>
> I searched debian-devel for the message to which you are responding;
> the most recent message with that sub
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 08:50:17PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> >> http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Talk:Comparison_of_init_systems
> >
> >> "friendly upstream yes no NO YES"
> >
> > Really? You put something like this in a technical comparison chart?
>
> I wasn't the one who wrote
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 08:47:27PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> >> It's about the same on the other side when Lennart tells about Systemd
> >> "debunking myths".
> > I'd ask for some arguments here.
>
> This has already been discussed. You can look in the archive.
I don't think so.
--
WBR, wRA
On 07/18/2013 08:19 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On 07/18/2013 01:48 PM, Gergely Nagy wrote:
A friendly upstream *is* important in a comparsion chart. Working
with an unfriendly, or even hostile upstream is not something you
want to have in a core component of an operating system.
Fr
Le mercredi 17 juillet 2013 à 12:26 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit :
> I wonder what systemd integration problems will be handwaved as "somebody
> else's problem", the way the kernel audio driver issues were for PA.
Frankly, I don’t see this coming at all. Systemd has been deployed on a
large numb
On Thursday 18 July 2013 14:45:38 Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
[snip]
> - Option 3:
>
> (Note: I'm assuming you are generating API docs directly fromt the
> source files. So the input for the doc building is not seperable from
> the actual source.)
>
> For packages 1 and 2 build without docs but
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 12:46:28PM +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> I notice one of my package fails on hurd-i386, kfreebsd-* and sparc due
> to various dependencies:
> https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=resiprocate&suite=sid
I see it built immediately on kfreebsd-*, what's the problem?
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 03:15:12PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 07/18/2013 01:29 AM, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > - Reliable, low-maintenance system startup (no races / ordering bugs)
> Could you point at these bugs?
No.
Look, Thomas, you asked what the goals of event-based init systems are, a
On 07/18/2013 08:21 PM, Steve Langasek wrote:
But unless you've only ever used Debian on systems with a flat
partition:filesystem structure, with no network filesystem mounts, no
LVM/RAID/LUKS, and no networks more complicated than a single interface,
you've either been affected by these race co
Thomas Goirand debian.org> writes:
>
> You have to define what problem we are trying to solve. And this still
> hasn't been defined yet in this list.
What for?
Seriously. There are a whole lot of features in systemd which I, for one, do
NOT want to do without any longer.
Decent process state
On 07/19/2013 02:21 AM, Steve Langasek wrote:
> But unless you've only ever used Debian on systems with a flat
> partition:filesystem structure, with no network filesystem mounts, no
> LVM/RAID/LUKS, and no networks more complicated than a single interface,
> you've either been affected by these ra
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 03:45:21AM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> So that brings me to ask: do you have an idea of how much work it would
> be to have Upstart ported to kFreeBSD or Hurd (even if that would mean
> loosing some of the functionality (obviously cgroups comes to mind))?
As for cgroups,
❦ 18 juillet 2013 21:45 CEST, Thomas Goirand :
> So that brings me to ask: do you have an idea of how much work it would
> be to have Upstart ported to kFreeBSD or Hurd (even if that would mean
> loosing some of the functionality (obviously cgroups comes to mind))?
Upstart doesn't support cgrou
Thomas Goirand (2013-07-19):
> So that brings me to ask: do you have an idea of how much work it would
> be to have Upstart ported to kFreeBSD or Hurd (even if that would mean
> loosing some of the functionality (obviously cgroups comes to mind))?
Surely, you could have tried “porting upstart kfre
On Thu, 2013-07-18 at 12:46 +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> I notice one of my package fails on hurd-i386, kfreebsd-* and sparc due
> to various dependencies:
> https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=resiprocate&suite=sid
>
> and it appears these dependencies have been unavailable for a long
On 18/07/13 22:44, Adam D. Barratt wrote:
> On Thu, 2013-07-18 at 12:46 +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>> I notice one of my package fails on hurd-i386, kfreebsd-* and sparc due
>> to various dependencies:
>> https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=resiprocate&suite=sid
>>
>> and it appears t
On Thu, 2013-07-18 at 22:59 +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>
> On 18/07/13 22:44, Adam D. Barratt wrote:
> > On Thu, 2013-07-18 at 12:46 +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> >> I notice one of my package fails on hurd-i386, kfreebsd-* and sparc due
> >> to various dependencies:
> >> https://buildd.debian.or
On 18 July 2013 21:14, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> Thomas Goirand (2013-07-19):
>> So that brings me to ask: do you have an idea of how much work it would
>> be to have Upstart ported to kFreeBSD or Hurd (even if that would mean
>> loosing some of the functionality (obviously cgroups comes to mind))?
The following is a listing of packages for which help has been requested
through the WNPP (Work-Needing and Prospective Packages) system in the
last week.
Total number of orphaned packages: 492 (new: 6)
Total number of packages offered up for adoption: 150 (new: 2)
Total number of packages request
On 07/18/2013 09:45 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
If OpenRC isn't what we need (I still believe it does address a bunch of
problems and that the fact it can work for non-Linux port is a key
factor), then I'd be for Upstart. I do maintain my packages so that they
work for both Ubuntu and Debian, havin
John Paul Adrian Glaubitz writes:
> Popcon however speaks a completely different language:
>> http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=upstart
>> http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=systemd
> Currently 64 counted installations for upstart versus 1604 counted
> installations for systemd with
John Paul Adrian Glaubitz (2013-07-19):
> On a sidenote: Anyone can explain what could probably have caused this
> sharp drop in installations? Were there any significant problems with
> the current version of upstart in Debian?
Probably that?
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/popcon-dev
On 07/19/2013 02:55 AM, Russ Allbery wrote:
I believe the equivalent systemd package to the upstart package is the
systemd-sysv package, so 174 rather than 1604 is perhaps the better number
to use.
I'm not sure whether I can follow. I am using systemd on both my desktop
and my laptop and neithe
2013/7/19 Russ Allbery :
> John Paul Adrian Glaubitz writes:
>
>> Popcon however speaks a completely different language:
>
>>> http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=upstart
>>> http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=systemd
>
>> Currently 64 counted installations for upstart versus 1604 counted
Matthias Klumpp writes:
> 2013/7/19 Russ Allbery :
>> John Paul Adrian Glaubitz writes:
>>> Popcon however speaks a completely different language:
http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=upstart
http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=systemd
>>> Currently 64 counted installations fo
Russ Allbery wrote:
> John Paul Adrian Glaubitz writes:
>
> > Popcon however speaks a completely different language:
>
> >> http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=upstart
> >> http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=systemd
>
> > Currently 64 counted installations for upstart versus 1604 count
John Paul Adrian Glaubitz writes:
> On 07/19/2013 02:55 AM, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> I believe the equivalent systemd package to the upstart package is the
>> systemd-sysv package, so 174 rather than 1604 is perhaps the better
>> number to use.
> I'm not sure whether I can follow. I am using syste
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 08:06:27PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 11:25:42AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 05:07:39PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:
> > > - using the same infrastructure, it's also possible to
> > > mount /etc in the initramfs so that yo
On 19/07/13 11:48, Russ Allbery wrote:
>
> I didn't know about the init= method and was assuming the systemd-sysv
> method. Anyway, my point is that I suspect the vast majority of the
> systems with the systemd package installed are not actually using it as
> process 1.
>
> The upstart package
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