Le mardi 21 février 2012 à 23:37 +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz a
écrit :
> The biggest disadvantage of systemd is surely that it is Linux-only and
> probably won't work with other kernels in near future, so it's absolutely
> desirable to support several init systems in Debian.
What is the bene
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 04:25:22PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> "John D. Hendrickson and Sara Darnell" writes:
>
> > I also fail to see how upstart or systemd add anything new while they
> > obscure or delete previous good work (by suggesting init(1) is to be
> > deleted).
>
> I would like to st
]] Steve Langasek
> Please tell me why it would be better to implement the attached upstart job
> in C code within pid 1.
Not that the functionality implemented by the upstart job is C code
within pid 1 with systemd either. (It's C code, but it lives in
/lib/systemd/systemd-update-utmp which is
]] Thomas Goirand
> In what way do we have a choice as a user?
> 1/ upstart Conflicts: with sysvinit.
> 2/ none of our (providing daemon) packages carry an upstart
> script (of course, because if they did, they would depend on
> upstart, which breaks everything because of 1/).
No, they wouldn't
]] Roger Leigh
> Just FYI, please see #659451. I've split the UTC variable into
> /etc/default/hwclock, which means /etc/default/rcS can become a
> regular dpkg conffile (in current git only for now). This needs
> support in d-i clock-setup (done) and util-linux (pending) before
> upload.
I re
On 02/22/2012 03:10 AM, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
Martin Eberhard Schauer (21/02/2012):
As I can't magically fix all this by myself, I think that the only
choice I have is detailing the simple alternative we have:
- revert the change that drop long descriptions from Packages files
- live with th
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Elena Grandi
* Package name: python-gnupg
Version : 0.2.8
Upstream Author : Vinay Sajip
* URL : http://code.google.com/p/python-gnupg/
* License : BSD
Programming Lang: Python
Description : python wrapper for the
[Thomas Goirand]
> We are wasting a lot of time writing complex init.d scripts when all
> these should be automated to begin with. This is error prone, and
> gets even more complex if you want to support all what's needed: the
> VERBOSE variable, [ -x $DAEMON ] || exit 0, default files holding
> D
Jonathan Nieder writes:
> Jonathan Nieder wrote:
>> David Kalnischkies wrote:
>
>>> Why would it be intuitive to add a specific value for the arch attribute
>>> with
>>> apt-get install foo # arch |= native
>>> but remove all values of the attribute with
>>> apt-get remove foo# arch &= ~al
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 01:12:08PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> The meme that systemd is better than upstart because it doesn't depend on
> a shell is poppycock. No one has done any benchmarking to support the claim
> that /bin/sh is a bottleneck for upstart (particularly not on Debian or
> Ubun
Hi,
the web site
https://nm.debian.org/nmlist.php
has a forbidden access error for a few days. Do you know who we should
contact ?
Thanks
Olivier
--
gpg key id: 4096R/326D8438 (pgp.mit.edu)
Key fingerprint = 5FB4 6F83 D3B9 5204 6335 D26D 78DC 68DB 326D 8438
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 9:43 PM, olivier sallou wrote:
> the web site
>
> https://nm.debian.org/nmlist.php
>
> has a forbidden access error for a few days.
There were some security issues so it is down until they are fixed.
> Do you know who we should contact ?
Normally the #debian-newmaint IRC
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 03:24:47PM +0200, Riku Voipio wrote:
I have. Not on debian, but on debianish system with dash. And the result
was that shellscripts are indeed the bottleneck. We still did convert to
I don’t doubt it, but the question is, who cares if the boot process
takes a little bi
On Tue, 21 Feb 2012, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> Henrique de Moraes Holschuh dijo [Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 10:46:50AM -0200]:
> > Good packaging developers go to great lengths to be sure they are not
> > going to distribute anything trojaned. This takes a lot of work, and
> > often requires very goot workin
Stephan Seitz writes:
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 03:24:47PM +0200, Riku Voipio wrote:
>> I have. Not on debian, but on debianish system with dash. And the
>> result was that shellscripts are indeed the bottleneck. We still did
>> convert to
>
> I don’t doubt it, but the question is, who cares if
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 10:14:49AM +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> ]] Roger Leigh
>
> > Just FYI, please see #659451. I've split the UTC variable into
> > /etc/default/hwclock, which means /etc/default/rcS can become a
> > regular dpkg conffile (in current git only for now). This needs
> > supp
On Thu, 23 Feb 2012, Stephan Seitz wrote:
> I don’t doubt it, but the question is, who cares if the boot process
> takes a little bit longer?
> The desktop users I know are fetching their coffee while the system is
> booting.
Desktop users have a variety of different ways of using systems. Som
* Stephan Seitz [120222 14:49]:
> I don’t doubt it, but the question is, who cares if the boot process
> takes a little bit longer?
Well, time to boot is quite important for many people, me included.
I would never want a system without shell scripts, though.
Booting (and shutting down) is a far
Steve Langasek wrote:
> The meme that systemd is better than upstart because it doesn't depend on
> a shell is poppycock. No one has done any benchmarking to support the claim
> that /bin/sh is a bottleneck for upstart (particularly not on Debian or
This misrepresents the systemd position. Not us
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 01:18:41AM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
Desktop users have a variety of different ways of using systems. Some
people like my parents turn their computer on when they are about to use
it and watch it boot. It doesn't hurt to have a desktop system boot
quickly while unatte
On Wed, 2012-02-22 at 14:42 +0100, Stephan Seitz wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 03:24:47PM +0200, Riku Voipio wrote:
> >I have. Not on debian, but on debianish system with dash. And the result
> >was that shellscripts are indeed the bottleneck. We still did convert to
>
> I don’t doubt it, but
Mike Hommey writes:
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 04:25:22PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> I would like to stop writing the same complex 50-line shell script with
>> the same obscure and weird workarounds and strange conventions every time
>> I package another piece of software that runs a daemon. I
]] Roger Leigh
> > Line 3: "UTC" or "LOCAL". Tells whether the Hardware Clock is set to
> > Coordinated Universal Time or local time. You can always override
> > this value with options on the hwclock command line.
>
> If you saw my mail of a couple of days ago, I have made patches
> for
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> They also don't get turned off very often, but they do get rebooted. It
> should be possible to avoid that long delay by using kexec, though I've
> never looked into how well that works in Debian.
I tried that today with my laptop running
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 03:09:51PM +, Ben Hutchings wrote:
The desktop users I know are fetching their coffee while the system is
booting.
What if they have to reboot in the middle of the day due to a kernel
upgrade?
Then they are taking a coffee break or they wait until they haved
finish
Le mercredi 22 février 2012 à 15:43 +0100, Stephan Seitz a écrit :
> True, but the question is: does the new system solves more problems than
> it creates? And are the solved problems worth the disadvantages? For
> a faster boot process?
Upstart and systemd were not written just to improve boot
On Wed, February 22, 2012 14:42, Stephan Seitz wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 03:24:47PM +0200, Riku Voipio wrote:
>>I have. Not on debian, but on debianish system with dash. And the result
>>was that shellscripts are indeed the bottleneck. We still did convert to
>
> I don't doubt it, but the qu
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Florian Schlichting
* Package name: libnet-openssh-perl
Version : 0.57
Upstream Author : Salvador Fandiño
* URL : http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?Net::OpenSSH
* License : GPL-1+, Artistic
Programming Lang: Perl
Descr
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Florian Schlichting
* Package name: libnet-openssh-compat-perl
Version : 0.06
Upstream Author : Salvador Fandiño
* URL : http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?Net::OpenSSH::Compat
* License : GPL-1+, Artistic
Programming Lang
On Wed, 2012-02-22 at 00:32 +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Feb 21, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>
> > The biggest disadvantage of systemd is surely that it is Linux-only and
> > probably won't work with other kernels in near future, so it's absolutely
> > desirable to support several init sy
On Feb 22, 2012, at 11:21 PM, Svante Signell wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-02-22 at 00:32 +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
>> On Feb 21, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>>
>>> The biggest disadvantage of systemd is surely that it is Linux-only and
>>> probably won't work with other kernels in near future, s
John Paul Adrian Glaubitz writes:
> But I don't see the problem, Debian has the choice. We're not going to
> drop system V init anytime soon. Providing both systemd, upstart as well
> as classical system V init leaves the up to the user and allows to
> support non-Linux kernels.
There's a seriou
On my netbook I'm running a pretty vanilla install of squeeze,
although my personal desktop session is very different to usual.
I wanted to add a command-line option to my X server. I spent 15 mins
trawling through docs and grepping for config options with no luck.
So I asked a search engine.
It
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 02:42:51PM +0100, Stephan Seitz wrote:
> I don’t doubt it, but the question is, who cares if the boot process
> takes a little bit longer?
> The desktop users I know are fetching their coffee while the system
> is booting.
With recent improvements, booting itself is pretty
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 02:58:50PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> John Paul Adrian Glaubitz writes:
>
> > But I don't see the problem, Debian has the choice. We're not going to
> > drop system V init anytime soon. Providing both systemd, upstart as well
> > as classical system V init leaves the up
On Thu, 23 Feb 2012, Stephan Seitz wrote:
> We are talking about a minute or so.
If a million users spend a minute waiting for a system to boot that is 16,667
hours of wasted time which is equivalent to almost 9 years of paid work for a
40 hour week and a few weeks of holiday per year!
> When
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 9:52 AM, Russell Coker wrote:
> This problem is being addressed to some extent. Modern web browsers offer to
> reopen all previous windows and tabs when restarted. IMHO a desktop
> environment would ideally be able to open everything again such that a reboot
> wouldn't be
Russell Coker wrote:
> One of the design features of systemd is that it can be run by the user.
> So you could have a login to GNOME or KDE launch a copy of systemd for the
> desktop environment services which would improve the login times. I
> haven't used GNOME for quite a while, but the KDE lo
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 12:47:15AM +, Roger Leigh wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 02:58:50PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > John Paul Adrian Glaubitz writes:
> >
> > > But I don't see the problem, Debian has the choice. We're not going to
> > > drop system V init anytime soon. Providing both
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Scott Howard
* Package name: arduino-mk
Version : 0.8
Upstream Author : Martin Oldfield
* URL : http:/mjo.tc/atelier/2009/02/arduino-cli.html
* License : LGPL-2.1
Programming Lang: Perl, make
Description : CLI (m
Ian Jackson writes:
> We should not still be using this software.
Er, given that gdm3 works fine for many people, that seems excessive.
Moreover, the choice of default display manager seems unrelated to its
ability to support obscure tweaks -- indeed, it's very common for
default packages to be
]] Tzafrir Cohen
> In sysv init scripts the daemon forks into the background. In upstrart
> and systemd it doesn't have to (or shouldn't). (not) forking requires a
> different command-line argument, normally. This leads to odd beasts such
> as safe_mysqld.
You can just use the --background switc
OoO En cette fin de nuit blanche du jeudi 23 février 2012, vers 06:47,
Miles Bader disait :
>> We should not still be using this software.
> Er, given that gdm3 works fine for many people, that seems excessive.
> Moreover, the choice of default display manager seems unrelated to its
> ability
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