Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main (was: Bug#353277: should be in contrib)

2006-02-22 Thread Adam McKenna
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 03:33:19PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > Whether CIPE and Windows driver development "count" isn't a fact, it's > an opinion. Since they're both thoroughly pointless, I don't think they do. The fact is it doesn't matter whether they 'count'. They exist, and that is enough

Re: Marking BTS spam

2006-02-22 Thread Kevin Mark
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 08:20:45AM +0100, Nico Golde wrote: > Hi, > * Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-02-22 07:51]: > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 01:07:39PM -0700, Shaun Jackman wrote: > > > Is it possible to mark a particular message to the BTS (as in > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]) as spam? This info

ITP: grouch.app -- AOL Instant Messenger client for GNUstep

2006-02-22 Thread Gürkan
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist * Package name: grouch.app Version : 0.0.20060220 Upstream Author : Andy Sveikauskas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> * URL : http://mail.rochester.edu/~asveikau/grouch/ * License : GNU General Public License, version 2 Description : AOL

More polls and social pressure

2006-02-22 Thread Raphael Hertzog
[ Reply-to debian-project ] Hi everybody, given the size of the project, it's very difficult for any of us to evaluate the popularity of random ideas/opinions in a short time frame. Jeroen (jvw) recently conducted two informal polls (vi-tiny vs elvis, and maintainer field for ubuntu) and I liked

Re: Marking BTS spam

2006-02-22 Thread Nico Golde
Hi, * Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-02-22 09:24]: > On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 08:20:45AM +0100, Nico Golde wrote: > > * Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-02-22 07:51]: > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 01:07:39PM -0700, Shaun Jackman wrote: > > > > Is it possible to mark a particular message to

Re: Marking BTS spam

2006-02-22 Thread Blars Blarson
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >there was added a 'button' on all bug-number pages to 'mark as spam' on >near the bottom but IIRC it was marked as an experimental project to >only collect data for future use. If this has been implemented and >affect filtering, I guess the

Re: Marking BTS spam

2006-02-22 Thread Kevin Mark
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 08:20:45AM +0100, Nico Golde wrote: > Hi, > * Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-02-22 07:51]: > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 01:07:39PM -0700, Shaun Jackman wrote: > > > Is it possible to mark a particular message to the BTS (as in > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]) as spam? This info

Re: More polls and social pressure

2006-02-22 Thread Kevin Mark
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 09:43:23AM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > [ Reply-to debian-project ] > > Hi everybody, > > given the size of the project, it's very difficult for any of us to > evaluate the popularity of random ideas/opinions in a short time frame. > Jeroen (jvw) recently conducted two

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main (was: Bug#353277: should be in contrib)

2006-02-22 Thread Wouter Verhelst
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 12:35:06PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > The only instance when it's usable without any non-free code is when > you're better off using a native driver anyway. The only instance where wine is serving a purpose without requiring the use of non-free code is when you're better

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main (was: Bug#353277: should be in contrib)

2006-02-22 Thread Wouter Verhelst
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 03:33:19PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:11:50PM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote: > > The reality is that we can't imagine all the uses our users might have for > > this software, > > You don't have to imagine all the uses, just the realistic ones, whi

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main (was: Bug#353277: should be in contrib)

2006-02-22 Thread Steve Langasek
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 12:43:39PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 03:33:19PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:11:50PM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote: > > > The reality is that we can't imagine all the uses our users might have for > > > this software,

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main (was: Bug#353277: should be in contrib)

2006-02-22 Thread Anthony Towns
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 12:29:25PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 12:35:06PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > > The only instance when it's usable without any non-free code is when > > you're better off using a native driver anyway. > The only instance where wine is serving a

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main (was: Bug#353277: should be in contrib)

2006-02-22 Thread Anthony Towns
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 12:05:23AM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote: > On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 03:33:19PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > > Whether CIPE and Windows driver development "count" isn't a fact, it's > > an opinion. Since they're both thoroughly pointless, I don't think they do. > The fact is it

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main (was: Bug#353277: should be in contrib)

2006-02-22 Thread Riku Voipio
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 03:52:29AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 12:43:39PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > What makes 'running free windows drivers for stuff' so much more > > unrealistic than 'running free windows software for stuff'? Especially > > seen as how no Windo

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main (was: Bug#353277: should be in contrib)

2006-02-22 Thread Hendrik Sattler
Am Mittwoch, 22. Februar 2006 12:52 schrieb Anthony Towns: > Anyway, despite it's acronym, I'd put Wine under the same heading as > emulators. Wine reads a different binary format than elf and also provides the libs in the other format. Is the linux kernel on sparc an emulator if it can run sola

How to package a Haskell library?

2006-02-22 Thread Ernesto Hernández-Novich
I'm currently using Haskore (http://www.haskell.org/haskore) for a course I teach at the local university. I'm interested in packaging it so that it works both with Hugs and GHC. Are there any specific documents regarding the appropriate way to package Haskell modules? -- Ernesto Hernández-Novich

Re: More polls and social pressure

2006-02-22 Thread Sven Luther
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 09:43:23AM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > [ Reply-to debian-project ] > > Hi everybody, > > given the size of the project, it's very difficult for any of us to > evaluate the popularity of random ideas/opinions in a short time frame. > Jeroen (jvw) recently conducted two

il vero portale di leuca http://www.alewalnet.com/

2006-02-22 Thread aissela
Salento Format organizza un corso di Formazione in OPERATORE DEL SETTORE AGRITURISTICO E DEL TURISMO RURALE Scarica il BANDO qui http://www.leucainfo.com/ Inserimento appartamenti in affitto con il tuo numero telefonico e tre foto sul Vero Portale di Leuca Inserimento oggetti usati con il tuo n

Re: More polls and social pressure

2006-02-22 Thread Sven Luther
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 04:03:09PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote: > On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 09:43:23AM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > > [ Reply-to debian-project ] > > > > Hi everybody, > > > > given the size of the project, it's very difficult for any of us to > > evaluate the popularity of random i

Re: Problems found by piuparts

2006-02-22 Thread Anand Kumria
Hi Lars, On Mon, Feb 20, 2006 at 08:24:53AM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > > * Creating /usr/local/lib/foo in postinst, but not removing it > in postrm. I don't think that is a problem at all; the administrator ought to feel free to be able to put things in (say) /usr/local/lib/f

Re: Problems found by piuparts

2006-02-22 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Anand Kumria [Thu, 23 Feb 2006 02:26:43 +1100]: Hi, > On Mon, Feb 20, 2006 at 08:24:53AM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > > * Creating /usr/local/lib/foo in postinst, but not removing it > > in postrm. > I don't think that is a problem at all; the administrator ought to feel > f

Re: OpenAL and freealut

2006-02-22 Thread Reinhard Tartler
( CC:'ing debian-devel as a heads-up for a new transition. ) Ok, this is a status update for openal/freealut and a question for advice. OpenAL Upstream has decided to introduce proper library versioning and will start with an SONAME of libopenal.so.1 in their next upstream release. Currently,

Re: Problems found by piuparts

2006-02-22 Thread Frank Küster
Adeodato Simó <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Correct, so one would put in foo.postrm: > > rmdir --ignore-fail-on-non-empty /usr/local/lib/foo That's not sufficient, because /usr/local may be mounted ro, and therefore the command may fail even if the directory is empty. rmdir --ignore-fail-on

Re: More polls and social pressure

2006-02-22 Thread Anand Kumria
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 09:43:23AM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > [ Reply-to debian-project ] reply-to, ignored since I feel this is important enough that both lists should see this reponse. > > Hi everybody, > > In the light of recent events, those polls could be used to give a physical > rea

Re: Ubuntu patches

2006-02-22 Thread Scott James Remnant
On 2/21/06, Lionel Elie Mamane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You probably missed this question, which I also wanted to ask: > Frank forwarded it to me, and I replied to him in person -- here's the reply. > On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 03:55:23PM +0100, Frank Küster wrote: > > "Scott James Remnant" <[EMA

Re: Problems found by piuparts

2006-02-22 Thread Lars Wirzenius
to, 2006-02-23 kello 02:26 +1100, Anand Kumria kirjoitti: > On Mon, Feb 20, 2006 at 08:24:53AM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > > > > * Creating /usr/local/lib/foo in postinst, but not removing it > > in postrm. > > I don't think that is a problem at all; the administrator ought to

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main

2006-02-22 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On 22 Feb 2006, Steve Langasek verbalised: > On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 12:43:39PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: >> On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 03:33:19PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: >>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:11:50PM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote: The reality is that we can't imagine all the uses o

Re: Problems found by piuparts

2006-02-22 Thread Olaf van der Spek
On 2/22/06, Frank Küster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Adeodato Simó <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Correct, so one would put in foo.postrm: > > > > rmdir --ignore-fail-on-non-empty /usr/local/lib/foo > > That's not sufficient, because /usr/local may be mounted ro, and > therefore the comman

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main (was: Bug#353277: should be in contrib)

2006-02-22 Thread Adam McKenna
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 09:32:26PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > Well, yeah, I am, since I'm both on ftpmaster and on the tech ctte, the > latter of which is considering a resolution to move it right now. I'm > not sure why you'd rather continue making bald assertions I've already > indicated I don

Re: ITA pimppa

2006-02-22 Thread Gregory B. Prokopsky
It's yours. Gregory PS: xnc is still up for grabs. +++ Johannes Honkasalo [22/02/06 19:23 +0200]: > I'd like to adopt pimppa, if no-one has yet requested it. > > Best regards, > Johannes > -- Gregory B. Prokopsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian GNU/Linux http://www.debian.

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main (was: Bug#353277: should be in contrib)

2006-02-22 Thread Anthony Towns
Bug CC dropped. On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 02:20:42PM +0200, Riku Voipio wrote: > A requirement for main "must be usefull in a free software only > enviroinement" is the the beginning of the road to madness. Next > theill come for free clients for protocols that (currently) only > have non-free serve

Re: Problems found by piuparts

2006-02-22 Thread Frank Küster
"Olaf van der Spek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 2/22/06, Frank Küster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Adeodato Simó <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > Correct, so one would put in foo.postrm: >> > >> > rmdir --ignore-fail-on-non-empty /usr/local/lib/foo >> >> That's not sufficient, because

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main (was: Bug#353277: should be in contrib)

2006-02-22 Thread Christian Pernegger
[I'm not a developer, just one of Debians users - I hope it is not inappropriate for me to comment on this issue here.] For starters, I'd always thought that contrib was for packages that Depend on a package out of non-free -- basically to ensure that people who have only DFSG-free software in the

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main (was: Bug#353277: should be in contrib)

2006-02-22 Thread Adam McKenna
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 09:20:47AM -0800, Adam McKenna wrote: > On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 09:32:26PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > > Well, yeah, I am, since I'm both on ftpmaster and on the tech ctte, the > > latter of which is considering a resolution to move it right now. I'm > > not sure why you'd

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main (was: Bug#353277: should be in contrib)

2006-02-22 Thread Wouter Verhelst
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 09:52:28PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 12:29:25PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 12:35:06PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > > > The only instance when it's usable without any non-free code is when > > > you're better off usi

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main (was: Bug#353277: should be in contrib)

2006-02-22 Thread Anthony Towns
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 07:32:33PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > > The only instance where wine is serving a purpose without requiring the > > > use of non-free code is when you're better off using native Linux > > > software anyway. > > TurboCASH is a potential counterexample -- it's a complet

Re: Marking BTS spam

2006-02-22 Thread David Weinehall
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 04:33:57AM -0500, Kevin Mark wrote: [snip] > Hi Nico, > I just had an interesting idea to implement a way to get spam deleted > from @debian.org. Create an email address say [EMAIL PROTECTED] You > simply bounce/forward a debian.org email address to this address. A > script

Common Light Invitation for Communication Workshop

2006-02-22 Thread ElizaKeiser
    February 21, 2006   Dear Friends of Common Light,       We invite you to join us in a workshop March 24-25 on Resolving Conflict with Self and Others in order to develop valuable peacemaking skills through learning the international c

Re: Bug#320119: sysklogd: Large file support is broken in the sarge version (fwd)

2006-02-22 Thread Chris Stromsoe
Bug #320119 is marked fixed in 1.4.1-17.1, which is only available in unstable. In the meantime, LFS support has been broken for stable on i386 for the entire lifetime of the current stable release. Will -17.1 be making its way into stable any time soon? http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrep

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main (was: Bug#353277: should be in contrib)

2006-02-22 Thread Wouter Verhelst
On Thu, Feb 23, 2006 at 04:58:38AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 07:32:33PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > > > The only instance where wine is serving a purpose without requiring the > > > > use of non-free code is when you're better off using native Linux > > > > softwar

Re: Problems found by piuparts

2006-02-22 Thread Julien Cristau
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 17:42:00 +, Olaf van der Spek wrote: > Shouldn't logic like that be in one central place (dpkg or a library) > and not spread over dozens of packages? Something like dh_usrlocal(1)? Cheers, Julien -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "uns

Re: How to package a Haskell library?

2006-02-22 Thread Arjan Oosting
Op wo, 22-02-2006 te 09:41 -0400, schreef Ernesto Hernández-Novich: > I'm currently using Haskore (http://www.haskell.org/haskore) for a > course I teach at the local university. I'm interested in packaging it > so that it works both with Hugs and GHC. Are there any specific > documents regarding t

Re: More polls and social pressure

2006-02-22 Thread MJ Ray
Anand Kumria <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > So, if you feel a particular post was inappropriate / out-of-line bring > it to the attention of [EMAIL PROTECTED] I suggest using a bug report if it's important enough to track. This is mentioned as an alternative on http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#maintena

Bug#354043: general: Failed to detect secondary monitor, MergedFB/Clone mode disabled

2006-02-22 Thread souqueta
Package: general Severity: critical Justification: breaks the whole system ATI graphic card seems not to work on the system. While running X , i have several X Error: BadWindow (invalid Window parameter) 3 Major opcode: 20 Minor opcode: 0 Resource id: 0x125 And X freeze.

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main (was: Bug#353277: should be in contrib)

2006-02-22 Thread Peter Samuelson
[Christian Pernegger] > Judging from its documentation ndiswrapper doesn't need any non-free > binaries, the module can be inserted even if no drivers are > "installed". It might not be very useful like that, but "useful" is a > very subjective thing in any case Not *that* subjective. I think yo

Re: Problems found by piuparts

2006-02-22 Thread Peter Samuelson
[Frank Küster] > That's not sufficient, because /usr/local may be mounted ro, and > therefore the command may fail even if the directory is empty. U. There are lots of things dpkg can do which fail if filesystems are mounted read-only. I don't think this is something worth worrying about.

Wide and narrow streams library configuration

2006-02-22 Thread Andreas Fester
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi everyone, I am currently working on the next version of the log4cxx logging library, and came across an interesting question: Wide and narrow streams (e.g. std::wcerr and std::cerr) can not be used mixed within the same application. So, if a libra

Processed: Re: Bug#354043: general: Failed to detect secondary monitor, MergedFB/Clone mode disabled

2006-02-22 Thread Debian Bug Tracking System
Processing commands for [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > reassign 354043 xserver-xorg Bug#354043: general: Failed to detect secondary monitor, MergedFB/Clone mode disabled Bug reassigned from package `general' to `xserver-xorg'. > severity 354043 normal Bug#354043: general: Failed to detect secondary monito

WBCSD groups Virus Alert

2006-02-22 Thread VirusCheck
The following message sent by this account has violated system policy: From: debian-devel@lists.debian.org To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 22:40:09 +0100 Subject: Re: Approved document The following violations were detected: --- Scan information follows --- Virus Name: [EMAIL PROT

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main (was: Bug#353277: should be in contrib)

2006-02-22 Thread Christian Pernegger
[I originally sent this to Peter directly, my apologies.] > I think you'd be pretty hard-pressed to find > anyone who would consider it "useful" to print an init message to the > kernel log, use up a bit of memory, and do absolutely nothing else. I'd find it useful for the functionality to be the

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main (was: Bug#353277: should be in contrib)

2006-02-22 Thread Steve Langasek
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 02:20:42PM +0200, Riku Voipio wrote: > On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 03:52:29AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 12:43:39PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > > What makes 'running free windows drivers for stuff' so much more > > > unrealistic than 'running

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main

2006-02-22 Thread Steve Langasek
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 10:41:35AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > On 22 Feb 2006, Steve Langasek verbalised: > >> What makes 'running free windows drivers for stuff' so much more > >> unrealistic than 'running free windows software for stuff'? > >> Especially seen as how no Windows software is p

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main (was: Bug#353277: should be in contrib)

2006-02-22 Thread Adam McKenna
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 05:01:21PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: > Well, aside from not believing that anyone is going to use CIPE under > ndiswrapper (without someone stepping forward and testifying that this is > the case for them), I see a distinction between "wine is necessary in order > for you

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main

2006-02-22 Thread Thomas Bushnell BSG
Adam McKenna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > As far as the second statement being the reason that most of us want > ndiswrapper in main, that may be true, but it is no excuse to ignore rules > that are very clearly laid out in the SC and DFSG. I'm a little confused here. How does putting ndiswrapp

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main

2006-02-22 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On 22 Feb 2006, Steve Langasek told this: > On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 10:41:35AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: >> On 22 Feb 2006, Steve Langasek verbalised: > What makes 'running free windows drivers for stuff' so much more unrealistic than 'running free windows software for stuff'?

sysklogd -17.1 NMU build broken in mips/mipsel

2006-02-22 Thread Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, Chris Stromsoe wrote: > for the entire lifetime of the current stable release. Will -17.1 be > making its way into stable any time soon? I seriously doubt so. Changing the stable sysklogd requires an upload to stable (which did not happen), and that the stable release manage

Re: sysklogd -17.1 NMU build broken in mips/mipsel

2006-02-22 Thread Steve Langasek
On Thu, Feb 23, 2006 at 12:22:27AM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: > On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, Chris Stromsoe wrote: > > for the entire lifetime of the current stable release. Will -17.1 be > > making its way into stable any time soon? > I seriously doubt so. Changing the stable sysklogd re

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main

2006-02-22 Thread Adam McKenna
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 05:55:01PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: > Adam McKenna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > As far as the second statement being the reason that most of us want > > ndiswrapper in main, that may be true, but it is no excuse to ignore rules > > that are very clearly laid o

Re: Mirror split, amd64 update

2006-02-22 Thread Philip Charles
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:40, Anthony Towns wrote: > Hi all, > > The mirror split's underway, see: > > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-mirrors-announce/2006/02/msg0.html > > As expected, when it's complete amd64 will be added to the archive, > see: > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-amd64

Re: Bug#353277: ndiswrapper in main

2006-02-22 Thread Wouter Verhelst
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 05:29:35PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: > The distinction between main and contrib isn't one of the freeness of the > contents, though; it's of whether the package requires a component outside > of Debian/main for use. Actually, let's look at what policy says: Agreed; but

Re: ITA pimppa

2006-02-22 Thread Zak B. Elep
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi gadek! :-) On 2/23/06, Gregory B. Prokopsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > PS: xnc is still up for grabs. May I pick this up then, if no else has done it first? Cheers, Zakame - -- Zak B. Elep || http://zakame.spunge.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] ||