On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 10:45:05AM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> On Thu, 2020-02-06 at 07:58 +0100, Vincent Bernat wrote:
> > ❦ 6 février 2020 09:50 +11, Dmitry Smirnov :
> >
> > > > and 2) continuing to use rsyslog isn't an option if the default changes.
> > >
> > > No. I just don't want defa
On Tue, Feb 04, 2020 at 01:14:10PM +, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> So, we're all fine? Not so much: for our 32-bit Debian arches, we will
> need to basically rebuild the world to be 2038-safe. When we had to do
> something like this in the past, to deal with the libc5->libc6
> transition, we had an
On Jo, 06 feb 20, 22:43:50, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>
> I have one specific request relative to this change that should be
> pretty easy:
>
> Please include in the bullseye release notes a description of this
> change and tell users how to restore the buster logging configuration
> if they pref
Paul Wise writes:
> Only referencing /srv in debconf messages.
> TFTP servers that default to using /srv/tftp to serve files.
> These also use those dirs as user home directories.
FYI, we discussed this rather extensively in debian-policy 10 years ago
and were unable to reach any consensus or c
On 2/6/20 2:36 AM, Paul Wise wrote:
> My interpretation is
> of this is that packages should never touch /srv unless directed to do
> so by the sysadmin.
As a general rule, I'd agree.
However, I support allowing packages to not do anything except creating
an empty directory in /srv/$foo (i.e. cre
Hi!
El jue., 6 feb. 2020 20:39, Scott Kitterman escribió:
[snip]
I went back this far in the thread to try to get back before it went off
the rails (IMO).
I get that the results of this discussion aren't going to be my
preference. Ok. Win some, lose some. I think it's a bad decision for
Debi
On Friday, 7 February 2020 4:22:49 AM AEDT Marco d'Itri wrote:
> If you want to argue that the adoption of popcon is not uniform among
> different types of systems then you need to prove it.
> Expectations and anedoctes are not statistics.
Come on, maybe in theory there is such thing as "spherical
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
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Package name: peertube
Version: 2.0.0
License: AGPL-3+
URL: https://github.com/Chocobozzz/PeerTube
Desc
The following is a listing of packages for which help has been requested
through the WNPP (Work-Needing and Prospective Packages) system in the
last week.
Total number of orphaned packages: 1235 (new: 1)
Total number of packages offered up for adoption: 239 (new: 1)
Total number of packages reques
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: ste...@vargaconsulting.ca
* Package name: h5cpp-compiler
Version : 1.10.4.5
Upstream Author : Steven Varga
* URL : http://h5cpp.org
* License : MIT
Programming Lang: C++
Description : LLVM based compiler assisted
I just noticed that your packaging repo is currently empty.
Would you be able to push your current progress to Github
so that it's easier to review the source package?
On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 2:34 PM Sudip Mukherjee
wrote:
> So, do we also use epoch or shall I try the way which Paul suggested
> to
On February 6, 2020 5:22:15 AM UTC, Scott Kitterman
wrote:
>
>
>On February 5, 2020 8:43:43 AM UTC, Bastian Blank
>wrote:
>>Hi Scott
>>
>>On Wed, Feb 05, 2020 at 07:44:25AM +, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>>> >> Of course the fact that I can't use all the tools available to
>>> >manipulate text
On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 11:07 AM Sudip Mukherjee
wrote:
>
> On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 8:39 AM Michael Biebl wrote:
> >
> > Am 06.02.20 um 09:22 schrieb Adam D. Barratt:
> > > On 2020-02-06 08:12, Paul Gevers wrote:
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> On 06-02-2020 00:07, Adam D. Barratt wrote:
> > >>> On Wed, 2
On 2/6/20 9:41 AM, Daniel Baumann wrote:
> On 2/6/20 4:10 AM, Richard Laager wrote:
>> That's been my interpretation too. My expectation as a sysadmin is that
>> /srv is available for my _exclusive_ use.
>
> in the case of vsftp and tftpd-hpa, there's a debconf question asking
> the admin for the
> "Svante" == Svante Signell writes:
Svante> When is
Svante> Debian ever to offer a non-systemd alternative for
Svante> installation?
I hear your frustration that you'd like to see Debian committed to
supporting alternate init systems.
I do understand you value that and have spe
Hi,
On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 07:24:28PM +0100, Ansgar wrote:
[popcon is not indicative of install base]
> That's likely given some libreoffice packages (unlikely to be installed
> on servers) are at ~40% popcon and I would expect significantly more
> server installations than desktop ones.
> So
On Thu, 2020-02-06 at 14:14 -0500, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 08:09:13PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> > > > On a Debian system _not_ running systemd:
> > > >
> > > > du -sh /var/log
> > > > 74M /var/log
> > Of course it matters. It is about the _default_ setting, or hav
On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 12:07 AM Anthony DeRobertis wrote:
>
> An interesting challenge you've taken up, I fear it's going to be a lot
> of work.
Heh. It's work we're doing internally, so it'd be good to get it into
an upstream-acceptable form.
> On almost all of my older installs, the initramfs
On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 4:33 PM Dmitry Smirnov wrote:
> Second, it that binary build, the way it is compiled upstream, would never be
> accepted by ftp-masters due to lack of some sources in Debian "main".
> That's what I called problem with DFSG compliance.
It's worth remembering that Debian infr
> On 6 Feb 2020, at 13:25, Ansgar wrote:
>
> I have no problem installing a different MTA than Debian's default
> (exim), my preferred shell, my preferred editor and so on either.
That. The first thing I do on a fresh Debian system is to install
postfix, configure it as smarthost and install ema
Hallo,
* Marvin Renich [Wed, Feb 05 2020, 08:27:02AM]:
> * Matt Zagrabelny [200204 21:27]:
> > The contents of /var/log/journal will be binary files that journalctl
> > will read. IIRC.
>
> This is my objection to the systemd journal. Binary log files are
> absolutely _horrible_ for the general u
On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 08:09:13PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
On Thu, 2020-02-06 at 13:41 -0500, Michael Stone wrote:
On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 07:22:07PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> On a Debian sytem _not_ running systemd:
>
> du -sh /var/log
> 74M/var/log
>
> And the binary logs fro
On Thu, 2020-02-06 at 13:41 -0500, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 07:22:07PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> > On a Debian sytem _not_ running systemd:
> >
> > du -sh /var/log
> > 74M /var/log
> >
> > And the binary logs from systemd would of course be much smaller
> > since
> > th
Sam Hartman - 06.02.20, 17:11:20 CET:
> > "Martin" == Martin Steigerwald writes:
> Martin> Well, that is *exactly* why I thought the GR is not going
> to Martin> be helpful.
>
> Martin> Cause in *no way* it appeared to have *solved* the
> conflict Martin> underneath it.
>
> No the GR
> "Simon" == Simon Richter writes:
Simon> Adoption of systemd on machines with popcon installed and
Simon> active, which are largely desktop and laptop installations,
Simon> i.e. those cases where systemd provides a tangible benefit.
Simon, I've seen your analysis of why systemd
On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 07:22:07PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
On a Debian sytem _not_ running systemd:
du -sh /var/log
74M /var/log
And the binary logs from systemd would of course be much smaller since
they are binary. Any numbers?
It looks like you just proved that this discussion doe
On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 04:49:31PM +0100, Simon Richter wrote:
I'd expect servers and embedded systems to be vastly underrepresented in
both of these statistics, but that doesn't mean these use cases are in any
way uninteresting to the project.
Please stop beating the dead horse of whether debi
Marco d'Itri writes:
> On Feb 06, Simon Richter wrote:
>
>> I'd expect servers and embedded systems to be vastly underrepresented in
>> both of these statistics, but that doesn't mean these use cases are in any
>> way uninteresting to the project.
> If you want to argue that the adoption of popcon
On Thu, 2020-02-06 at 16:09 +, Philip Hands wrote:
> > > I solved this by removing Systemd from my systems.
> > >
> > > And now what?
> Well, since we're apparently meant to be obsessed about what it is
> like to accept every default, then let's assume for a moment that you
> are asking about
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "Luca Boccassi"
X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Control: block 949763 by -1
* Package name: azure-cosmos-python
Version : 1.0.5+git20191025
Upstream Author : Microsoft Corporation
* URL : https://github.com/Azure/azur
On Thu, 2020-02-06 at 15:08 +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Feb 06, Svante Signell wrote:
>
> > There are still a large number of
> > Debian users opting away from using systemd (and still use Debian,
> > not
> > derivatives). And what about non-linux systems?
> This is not true: adoption of syst
On Feb 06, Simon Richter wrote:
> I'd expect servers and embedded systems to be vastly underrepresented in
> both of these statistics, but that doesn't mean these use cases are in any
> way uninteresting to the project.
If you want to argue that the adoption of popcon is not uniform among
differ
On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 11:03 AM Matthias Klumpp wrote:
>
> >From personal experience, all that's needed to switch to the journal
> for an admin is to re-learn a couple of commands and be open to a bit
> of change. I so far found nothing that I could do with rsyslog to be
> impossible with the jour
Package: wnpp
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Owner: Sebastien Badia
* Package name: ruby-jaro-winkler
Version : 1.5.4
Upstream Author : Jian Weihang
* URL : https://github.com/tonytonyjan/jaro_winkler
* License : MIT
Programming Lang: Ruby, C
Description : Impleme
On 2/6/20 6:26 AM, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
I solved this by removing Systemd from my systems.
And now what?
Then you're not running the default configuration, which is of course
perfectly fine. As part of switching from systemd to your init system of
choice, you'd also install your favorit
Package: wnpp
Owner: Axel Beckert
Severity: wishlist
* Package name: passivedns
Version : 1.2.1
Upstream Author : Edward Bjarte Fjellskål
* URL : https://github.com/gamelinux/passivedns
* License : GPL-2+
Programming Lang: C
Description : network sniff
Am Do., 6. Feb. 2020 um 17:12 Uhr schrieb Simon Richter :
>
> Hi Marco,
>
> On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 03:08:28PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
>
> > > There are still a large number of
> > > Debian users opting away from using systemd (and still use Debian, not
> > > derivatives). And what about non-lin
On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 4:03 PM Guillem Jover wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2020-02-04 at 13:14:10 +, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> > The glibc folks have taken an interesting approach.
> >
> > * 64-bit ABIs/architectures are already using 64-bit time_t
> >throughout. The design is sane and so we should al
> "Martin" == Martin Steigerwald writes:
Martin> Well, that is *exactly* why I thought the GR is not going to
Martin> be helpful.
Martin> Cause in *no way* it appeared to have *solved* the conflict
Martin> underneath it.
No the GR did not somehow magically cause people to ag
Martin Steigerwald writes:
> Martin Steigerwald - 06.02.20, 12:26:32 CET:
>> Vincent Bernat - 06.02.20, 07:58:32 CET:
>> > ❦ 6 février 2020 09:50 +11, Dmitry Smirnov :
>> > >> and 2) continuing to use rsyslog isn't an option if the default
>> > >> changes.>
>> > >
>> > > No. I just don't want d
Hi Marco,
On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 03:08:28PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> > There are still a large number of
> > Debian users opting away from using systemd (and still use Debian, not
> > derivatives). And what about non-linux systems?
> This is not true: adoption of systemd in buster is larger
On 2/6/20 4:10 AM, Richard Laager wrote:
> That's been my interpretation too. My expectation as a sysadmin is that
> /srv is available for my _exclusive_ use.
in the case of vsftp and tftpd-hpa, there's a debconf question asking
the admin for the location of these directories, for which /srv/{t,}f
On Feb 06, Paul Wise wrote:
> FTP servers that default to using /srv/ftp to serve files.
> TFTP servers that default to using /srv/tftp to serve files.
> These also use those dirs as user home directories.
>
> OBS uses /srv/obs for various things.
>
> I wonder if any of these should be changed?
Hi,
On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 02:32:57PM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Also it does not (yet) mean that I abandoned my packaging efforts for it.
Same here. My packages don't care about systemd either way, so there is no
reason not to package them at the root of the distribution tree.
> But o
On Wed, Feb 05, 2020 at 09:28:27PM -0500, Michael Stone wrote:
> > No. I just don't want default to change.
> Nothing is worse for the debian project than for every single suggestion
> that something change be met with opposition that boils down to opposition
> to change. Things have changed before
On Feb 06, Svante Signell wrote:
> There are still a large number of
> Debian users opting away from using systemd (and still use Debian, not
> derivatives). And what about non-linux systems?
This is not true: adoption of systemd in buster is larger than 99%.
Other systems will have different def
On Do, Feb 06, 2020 at 13:25:06 +0100, Ansgar wrote:
Given you wrote earlier that you moved all but one of your machines
away from Debian, whatever Debian installs by default doesn't affect
you anyway.
Well, I still use Debian. In Testing you have elogind now as a complete
systemd replacement.
Martin Steigerwald - 06.02.20, 14:32:57 CET:
> Ansgar - 06.02.20, 13:25:06 CET:
> > On Thu, 2020-02-06 at 12:30 +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > > Especially as I found that I did not use journalctl in my daily
> > > practice anyway.
> >
> > Given you wrote earlier that you moved all but one o
On Feb 06, Dmitry Smirnov wrote:
> URL: https://github.com/cloudflare/boringtun
> Description: userspace WireGuard implementation in Rust
What is the purpose of having this packaged in Debian? It is at most
a proof of concept, with hardly any improvements since it has been
relea
Ansgar - 06.02.20, 13:25:06 CET:
> On Thu, 2020-02-06 at 12:30 +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > Especially as I found that I did not use journalctl in my daily
> > practice anyway.
>
> Given you wrote earlier that you moved all but one of your machines
> away from Debian, whatever Debian insta
On Thu, 2020-02-06 at 12:30 +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Especially as I found that I did not use journalctl in my daily
> practice anyway.
Given you wrote earlier that you moved all but one of your machines
away from Debian, whatever Debian installs by default doesn't affect
you anyway.
I
Martin Steigerwald - 06.02.20, 12:26:32 CET:
> Vincent Bernat - 06.02.20, 07:58:32 CET:
> > ❦ 6 février 2020 09:50 +11, Dmitry Smirnov :
> > >> and 2) continuing to use rsyslog isn't an option if the default
> > >> changes.>
> > >
> > > No. I just don't want default to change. IMHO rationale for
Vincent Bernat - 06.02.20, 07:58:32 CET:
> ❦ 6 février 2020 09:50 +11, Dmitry Smirnov :
> >> and 2) continuing to use rsyslog isn't an option if the default
> >> changes.>
> > No. I just don't want default to change. IMHO rationale for this is
> > weak but everybody keeps arguing that it would n
Scott Kitterman - 06.02.20, 06:27:44 CET:
> >Are you suggesting that voters fully understood the implications?
> >Is this OK now to replace everything with systemd counterparts?
> >
> >I certainly voted with considerations for _init_ system.
> >
> >If I recall correctly, no GR option suggested to "
On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 8:39 AM Michael Biebl wrote:
>
> Am 06.02.20 um 09:22 schrieb Adam D. Barratt:
> > On 2020-02-06 08:12, Paul Gevers wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> On 06-02-2020 00:07, Adam D. Barratt wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 2020-02-05 at 22:42 +, Sudip Mukherjee wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 5, 202
❦ 6 février 2020 10:45 +01, Svante Signell :
>> To not have logs duplicated in two places.
>
> If this is your motivation for the change it is a _very_ weak one, right? Disk
> space is not a crucial problem anymore. Additionally, what would be the
> defaults
> for non-systemd systems running GN
On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 at 05:26, Moritz Mühlenhoff wrote:
> I'm in favour of setting both to 1. From a quick search Ubuntu carried a
> patch
> in their systemd package to set this as well (LP 1845637).
>
> protected hardlinks/symlinks are enabled via a Debian-specific kernel patch
> by default, so I
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Owner: Gard Spreemann
* Package name: python-cdsapi
Version : 0.2.5
Upstream Author : ECMWF
* URL : https://pypi.org/project/cdsapi
* License : Apache-2.0
Programming Lang: Python
Description : Python interface for the E
On Thu, 2020-02-06 at 07:58 +0100, Vincent Bernat wrote:
> ❦ 6 février 2020 09:50 +11, Dmitry Smirnov :
>
> > > and 2) continuing to use rsyslog isn't an option if the default changes.
> >
> > No. I just don't want default to change. IMHO rationale for this is weak
> > but everybody keeps argui
I think I need to add that personally I am very thankful for the work the Salsa
and Salsa CI teams are doing. And the only reason I participated in this
discussion is that I believe that we need to stand up for each other as fellow
peers and colleagues.
Ondrej
--
Ondřej Surý
> On 6 Feb 2020,
Am 06.02.20 um 09:22 schrieb Adam D. Barratt:
> On 2020-02-06 08:12, Paul Gevers wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 06-02-2020 00:07, Adam D. Barratt wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2020-02-05 at 22:42 +, Sudip Mukherjee wrote:
On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 10:22 PM Christian Barcenas
wrote:
> Because this chan
On 2020-02-06 08:12, Paul Gevers wrote:
Hi,
On 06-02-2020 00:07, Adam D. Barratt wrote:
On Wed, 2020-02-05 at 22:42 +, Sudip Mukherjee wrote:
On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 10:22 PM Christian Barcenas
wrote:
Because this changes the versioning scheme from kernel releases
(libbpf-dev and libbpf0
Hi,
On 06-02-2020 00:07, Adam D. Barratt wrote:
> On Wed, 2020-02-05 at 22:42 +, Sudip Mukherjee wrote:
>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 10:22 PM Christian Barcenas
>> wrote:
>>> Because this changes the versioning scheme from kernel releases
>>> (libbpf-dev and libbpf0 currently are at 5.4.13-1 in
An interesting challenge you've taken up, I fear it's going to be a lot
of work.
On almost all of my older installs, the initramfs is built with
MODULES=dep, because otherwise /boot runs out of space; the amount of
space MODULES=most takes is ever-increasing. So the kernel packages
plopping a
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