On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 03:42:39 +0200
Axel Beckert wrote:
> * Package name: dillo
> Version : 3.0 (yet to be released)
> Description : Small and fast web browser based on FLTK 1.3
>
> Dillo is a multi-platform graphical web browser known for its speed and
> small footprint.
>
>
Package: wnpp
Owner: Axel Beckert
Severity: wishlist
* Package name: dillo
Version : 3.0 (yet to be released)
Upstream Author : Jorge Arellano Cid et al.
* URL or Web page : http://www.dillo.org/
* License : GPLv3+
Description : Small and fast web browser based on F
On 11-07-19 at 03:49pm, Paul Wise wrote:
> I'm imagining that this is a hack that was added before experimental
> existed and that dev versions of scribus should go to experimental
> now.
In the (relatively recent) past Scribus have had features in its
unstable branch that was beneficial to use
m...@linux.it (Marco d'Itri) writes:
> On Jul 19, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>> kFreeBSD is currently released as a "technology preview". With that, we
>> mean it works, but it isn't necessarily ready yet for prime usage. The
>> fact that there currently aren't many users yet isn't surprising in that
On 11-07-18 at 01:02am, Jordi Mallach wrote:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: Jordi Mallach
>
> * Package name: mess-desktop-entries
> Version : 0.2
> Upstream Author : Matthew Barnes
> * URL : none
> * License : GPLv3
> Programming Lang: none
>
It's hard to believe that it's been over a year since we discussed this
topic. (See
http://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2010/06/msg01049.html.) Time
flies when you're having fun, I guess. ;-) Anyway, back when the boot
loader hook script policy was being formulated, shortly before the
Squeez
Le Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 11:13:24AM +0200, Gergely Nagy a écrit :
>
> My understanding is, that it should be a complete overview of the source
> licenses. I do not treat generated files as source, because,
> well... they're not.
>
> They might come in the source tarball, like the autotools-generat
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 05:31:37PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> > Debian is the 'Universal' operating system
>
> "Universal operating system" is a phrase that was added to our website
> most likely by Bruce Perens in April 1997. (He posted about it to
> -private then; there w
[Joey Hess]
> "Universal operating system" is a phrase that was added to our
> website most likely by Bruce Perens in April 1997. (He posted about
> it to -private then; there was no discussion.)
Huh. I always assumed Bdale coined it for his DPL platform.
Turns out this thread wasn't a _total_ w
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Laurent Destailleur
* Package name: dolibarr
Version : 3.1.0
Upstream Author : Laurent Destailleur
* URL : http://www.dolibarr.org/
* License : GPL
Programming Lang: PHP
Description : ERP and CRM to manage small
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 09:52:30PM +, Uoti Urpala wrote:
> Adam D. Barratt adam-barratt.org.uk> writes:
> > Proof by assertion isn't an argument. If you think kfreebsd sucks then
> > you're entitled to that opinion, but please don't seek to frame it as
> > some sort of consensus direction on
Iustin Pop debian.org> writes:
> In my experience, programs written with portability in mind are much
> more resilient to breakage, and thus over time they survive bit-rot much
> better. Whenever I see a program that is explicitly non-portable, I tend
> to discount it in favour of portable alterna
Hi,
A Terça, 19 de Julho de 2011 21:35:35 Adam D. Barratt você escreveu:
> On Tue, 2011-07-19 at 22:09 +0200, Svante Signell wrote:
> > I'm about to file a bug, but wanted your opinion first. When installing
> > the netinst from today and yesterday, and the latest weekly build CD1,
> > installatio
Adam D. Barratt adam-barratt.org.uk> writes:
> Proof by assertion isn't an argument. If you think kfreebsd sucks then
> you're entitled to that opinion, but please don't seek to frame it as
> some sort of consensus direction on the part of the project because
> "it's obvious".
What I consider ob
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 03:59:13PM +, Uoti Urpala wrote:
> Wouter Verhelst debian.org> writes:
> > IMAO, a statement of (paraphrased) 'portability is for weenies' isn't
>
> Keeping portability in mind is a good thing especially if you're doing
> something
> that is easily implementable with
Couldn't you block the creation of weekly and daily builds when things
like this happen?
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Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> Debian is the 'Universal' operating system
"Universal operating system" is a phrase that was added to our website
most likely by Bruce Perens in April 1997. (He posted about it to
-private then; there was no discussion.) Not very coincidentally, Debian
made 3 press release
Wouter Verhelst debian.org> writes:
> Debian is the 'Universal' operating system, and many of our developers
> (including myself) pride themselves on that. We port to many
> architectures, we port to multiple kernels. It's one of the defining
> features of Debian: you can run it /anywhere/
This i
> There're other blockers beside systemd to KFreeBSD being a full Debian port,
> e.g. the lack of KMS in Xorg. Even the guy who gave a talk von FreeBSD at
> last year's DebConf didn't use FreeBSD on his desktop.
Just FWIW the guy who gave the kFreeBSD talk in Augsburg (me) was
doing so from a
On Tue, 2011-07-19 at 20:51 +, Uoti Urpala wrote:
> Adam D. Barratt adam-barratt.org.uk> writes:
> > On Tue, 2011-07-19 at 19:48 +, Uoti Urpala wrote:
> >> There was a discussion about whether future Debian would be
> >> based on kFreeBSD, and kFreeBSD failed that on its own merits, not du
On Jul 19, Martin Wuertele wrote:
> > So far we have one person who likes pf and one who suspects that maybe
> > FreeBSD could behave better when severely overloaded.
> So if trolling is on add another one: it doesn't have udev
Hint: just because you cannot answer a question, it is not "trolling"
Andreas Barth wrote:
> The decision is already taken that Debian can run on BSD kernels. So
> if someone wants to revert that decision, it'd need an GR. Not the
> other way.
That decision was made without a GR, and can manifestly be reversed
without a GR. Otherwise the release team's architecture
Adam D. Barratt adam-barratt.org.uk> writes:
> On Tue, 2011-07-19 at 19:48 +, Uoti Urpala wrote:
>> There was a discussion about whether future Debian would be
>> based on kFreeBSD, and kFreeBSD failed that on its own merits, not due to any
>> consideration of systemd (or actually there wasn't
]] "brian m. carlson"
Hi,
| On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 07:31:59AM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
| > | Also, I've installed systemd on my laptop and it logs almost nothing
| > | to the console ("verbose" on the kernel command line does not help).
| >
| > try doing systemd.log_level=debug as documen
* Marco d'Itri [2011-07-19 21:39]:
> So far we have one person who likes pf and one who suspects that maybe
> FreeBSD could behave better when severely overloaded.
So if trolling is on add another one: it doesn't have udev
Kthxgoodby
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On Tue, 2011-07-19 at 22:09 +0200, Svante Signell wrote:
> I'm about to file a bug, but wanted your opinion first. When installing
> the netinst from today and yesterday, and the latest weekly build CD1,
> installation of the base system fails due to bzcat missing. Is this
> known already?
Yes. I
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 08:25:19PM +, Uoti Urpala wrote:
> Even if you disagree about systemd upstream's views on portability that does
> not change the quality of the software and how it performs on Linux. IMO
> attitudes like "if upstream holds such heretical views then their software is
> no
Hi,
I'm about to file a bug, but wanted your opinion first. When installing
the netinst from today and yesterday, and the latest weekly build CD1,
installation of the base system fails due to bzcat missing. Is this
known already?
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Wouter Verhelst debian.org> writes:
> > > kFreeBSD is hardly the only reason why systemd is a bad idea for Debian.
> >
> > It's the only argument I've seen you mention. And I don't remember seeing
> > convincing arguments against it from anyone else in the thread either.
>
> Pfff. You're the one
On Jul 19, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> Oh, I get it, we should throw kFreeBSD out because Marco d'Itri thinks
> it's a bad idea?
No, but if you believe it to be useful the least you could do is to
explain why.
--
ciao,
Marco
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On Tue, 2011-07-19 at 19:48 +, Uoti Urpala wrote:
> There was a discussion about whether future Debian would be
> based on kFreeBSD, and kFreeBSD failed that on its own merits, not due to any
> consideration of systemd (or actually there wasn't much of a discussion, but
> that was only because
Package: wnpp
Owner: Youhei SASAKI
Severity: wishlist
* Package name: ruby-hikidoc
Version : 0.0.6
Upstream Author : Kazuhiko
* URL or Web page : http://projects.netlab.jp/hikidoc/
* License : BSD-3-clause
Description : text-to-HTML conversion tool for web writers
* Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) [110719 01:36]:
> Uoti Urpala writes:
> > I know I would personally be a lot happier with a Debian that supports
> > systemd functionality than with a Debian that can run on a BSD kernel.
>
> Well, while we're putting stakes in the ground, I suppose I'll hammer mi
Peter Samuelson p12n.org> writes:
> [Uoti Urpala]
> > IMO letting kFreeBSD block a technology like systemd (or even letting
> > it have a significant impact on the discussion about whether it's
> > desirable to introduce the technology for the main Linux case) would
> > only be justifiable if ther
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 09:38:04PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Jul 19, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> > kFreeBSD is currently released as a "technology preview". With that, we
> > mean it works, but it isn't necessarily ready yet for prime usage. The
> > fact that there currently aren't many users y
On Jul 19, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> kFreeBSD is currently released as a "technology preview". With that, we
> mean it works, but it isn't necessarily ready yet for prime usage. The
> fact that there currently aren't many users yet isn't surprising in that
> light. However, as the port matures, it
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 03:59:13PM +, Uoti Urpala wrote:
> Wouter Verhelst debian.org> writes:
> > > > Debian/kFreeBSD is here to stay, it's not going away. With that as a
> > > > given, systemd is suddenly a lot less interesting.
> > >
> > > Once you stop taking things as a given there are a
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Peter Samuelson wrote:
>
> [Uoti Urpala]
>> IMO letting kFreeBSD block a technology like systemd (or even letting
>> it have a significant impact on the discussion about whether it's
>> desirable to introduce the technology for the main Linux case) would
>> only be
[Uoti Urpala]
> IMO letting kFreeBSD block a technology like systemd (or even letting
> it have a significant impact on the discussion about whether it's
> desirable to introduce the technology for the main Linux case) would
> only be justifiable if there were very solid arguments why kFreeBSD
> i
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 07:31:59AM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> | Also, I've installed systemd on my laptop and it logs almost nothing
> | to the console ("verbose" on the kernel command line does not help).
>
> try doing systemd.log_level=debug as documented in the man page?
It's hard to acce
On 07/19/2011 03:49 PM, Paul Wise wrote:
> I'm imagining that this is a hack that was added before experimental
> existed and that dev versions of scribus should go to experimental
> now.
If I remember right scribus-ng was in development for a lngish time while it
was in such a bugfree conditi
>> It seems this problem (double fork) is the basement of using cgroup
>> under systemd ;)
>
> I think messing around with cgroups is a ridiculous way to solve this
> problem.
To be fair, systemd also uses cgroups to reliably kill rogue child
processes when stopping a service. This is not unlike
Uoti Urpala writes:
> Gergely Nagy balabit.hu> writes:
>> Uoti Urpala pp1.inet.fi> writes:
>>
>> >> Whatever its features, if we have to jump through a large heap of hoops
>> >> to get it to work at all, or to make life for maintainers of daemon
>> >> packages not a complete nightmare, it's no
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jonas Genannt
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
* Package name: libfile-keepass-perl
Version : 0.03
Upstream Author : Paul Seamons
* URL : http://search.cpan.org/dist/File-KeePass/
* License : This module m
Tollef Fog Heen writes:
> ]] Gergely Nagy
>
> | FYI, there are upstreams who provide initscripts in their source
> | package. systemd is yet another burden on them that they have to
> | maintain, and makes their lives miserable.
>
> You make it sound like systemd requires you to make an extra ef
Gergely Nagy balabit.hu> writes:
> Uoti Urpala pp1.inet.fi> writes:
>
> >> Whatever its features, if we have to jump through a large heap of hoops
> >> to get it to work at all, or to make life for maintainers of daemon
> >> packages not a complete nightmare, it's not likely to become the defaul
Samuel Thibault writes ("Re: Minimal init [was: A few observations about
systemd]"):
> Ian Jackson, le Tue 19 Jul 2011 16:18:54 +0100, a écrit :
> > I think messing around with cgroups is a ridiculous way to solve this
> > problem. The right answer is simply to change the daemons to give
> > them
Le mardi 19 juillet 2011 à 16:36 +0200, Gergely Nagy a écrit :
> FYI, there are upstreams who provide initscripts in their source
> package.
And how many of them comply with the Debian policy without needing to be
completely rewritten?
Let’s talk about real cases, please.
--
.''`. Jossel
Wouter Verhelst debian.org> writes:
> > > Debian/kFreeBSD is here to stay, it's not going away. With that as a
> > > given,
> > > systemd is suddenly a lot less interesting.
> >
> > Once you stop taking things as a given there are a lot more opportunities
> > for
> > improvement.
>
> kFreeBSD
Ian Jackson, le Tue 19 Jul 2011 16:55:58 +0100, a écrit :
> Samuel Thibault writes ("Re: Minimal init [was: A few observations about
> systemd]"):
> > Ian Jackson, le Tue 19 Jul 2011 16:18:54 +0100, a écrit :
> > > I think messing around with cgroups is a ridiculous way to solve this
> > > problem
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Ian Jackson
wrote:
> Bastien ROUCARIES writes ("Re: Minimal init [was: A few observations about
> systemd]"):
>> Forking daemon are reparented to init and we do not know if exit is
>> genuine or not.
>
> Right.
>
>> It seems this problem (double fork) is the basem
]] Gergely Nagy
| FYI, there are upstreams who provide initscripts in their source
| package. systemd is yet another burden on them that they have to
| maintain, and makes their lives miserable.
You make it sound like systemd requires you to make an extra effort to
make stuff work. It doesn't.
Ian Jackson, le Tue 19 Jul 2011 16:18:54 +0100, a écrit :
> I think messing around with cgroups is a ridiculous way to solve this
> problem. The right answer is simply to change the daemons to give
> them an option which causes them not to fork. Then you can just have
> a single supervision daemo
]] Wouter Verhelst
| It's of course your prerogative to have that opinion, but (as a
| maintainer of a source package that ships two initscripts) I disagree
| with it. Especially since I doubt that supporting NBD exports with
| systemd is going to be possible, at all, given what I know about it.
Bastien ROUCARIES writes ("Re: Minimal init [was: A few observations about
systemd]"):
> Forking daemon are reparented to init and we do not know if exit is
> genuine or not.
Right.
> It seems this problem (double fork) is the basement of using cgroup
> under systemd ;)
I think messing around w
]] (Marco d'Itri)
| I can think about a few (networking-related) features which could make
| me want to use a Debian/kOpenBSD, but what is the point of kFreeBSD?
Not sure about kFreeBSD, but regular Freebsd's handling of large amounts
of swap is much better than Linux'. Linux really doesn't cop
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 4:42 PM, Juliusz Chroboczek wrote:
>> Not rocket science about ipc only a loop and two signal to catch:
>> - get SIGING: respawn systemd
>> - get SIGUSR2: spawn a sulogin shell
>> - check if systemd child die, respawn it if needed (rate limited)
>>
>> All the funky stuff is
> Not rocket science about ipc only a loop and two signal to catch:
> - get SIGING: respawn systemd
> - get SIGUSR2: spawn a sulogin shell
> - check if systemd child die, respawn it if needed (rate limited)
>
> All the funky stuff is done by a child of init.
Hmm If you want to support forking
On Tue, 2011-07-19 at 14:00 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Ben Hutchings writes ("Re: A few observations about systemd"):
> > What's more, neither of the 'ports' to other kernels increases hardware
> > support.
>
> What they do provide is healthy competition for Linux. There are
> reasons why some u
Uoti Urpala writes:
>> Whatever its features, if we have to jump through a large heap of hoops
>> to get it to work at all, or to make life for maintainers of daemon
>> packages not a complete nightmare, it's not likely to become the default
>> in Debian any time soon.
>
> I think the life of man
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 01:12:33PM +, Uoti Urpala wrote:
> Wouter Verhelst debian.org> writes:
> > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:05:56PM +, Uoti Urpala wrote:
> > > I think the important question is whether portability to other kernels is
> > > or
> > > should be a "project's goal", and how
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 03:49:51PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
[...]
> The fact that we have not heard from them should be a big enough
> clue...
I'll throw my hat in the ring on that one--I do in fact run
kFreeBSD, and further, I do it within DomU on Debian/squeeze i386
Xen Dom0 hosts (though I ha
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 02:00:40PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Ben Hutchings writes ("Re: A few observations about systemd"):
> > What's more, neither of the 'ports' to other kernels increases hardware
> > support.
>
> What they do provide is healthy competition for Linux. There are
> reasons why
On Jul 19, Ian Jackson wrote:
> What they do provide is healthy competition for Linux. There are
> reasons why some users prefer the BSD kernel to Linux.
Can you cite some?
I can think about a few (networking-related) features which could make
me want to use a Debian/kOpenBSD, but what is the po
I'm imagining that this is a hack that was added before experimental
existed and that dev versions of scribus should go to experimental
now.
--
bye,
pabs
http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
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On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Ian Jackson
wrote:
> Tollef Fog Heen writes ("Re: A few observations about systemd"):
>> ]] Russell Coker
>> | But it does result in a system that doesn't work properly.
>>
>> Well, yes. If init crashes, stuff generally don't work that well
>> afterwards. :-)
>
>
Tollef Fog Heen writes ("Re: A few observations about systemd"):
> ]] Russell Coker
> | But it does result in a system that doesn't work properly.
>
> Well, yes. If init crashes, stuff generally don't work that well
> afterwards. :-)
That's why its best to have init contain as little code as po
Ben Hutchings writes ("Re: A few observations about systemd"):
> What's more, neither of the 'ports' to other kernels increases hardware
> support.
What they do provide is healthy competition for Linux. There are
reasons why some users prefer the BSD kernel to Linux. Talking as if
increased hard
Wouter Verhelst debian.org> writes:
> On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:05:56PM +, Uoti Urpala wrote:
> > I think the important question is whether portability to other kernels is or
> > should be a "project's goal", and how much else you're willing to lose for
> > the sake of that goal.
>
> Debian/
> | I'd be more sympathetic to the idea of recoding everything in C if
> | the initialiation code lived in separate binaries.
> system/ systemd-fsck* systemd-quotacheck* systemd-shutdown*
> systemd-vconsole-setup*
[...]
Interesting. Looking at the code, I hadn't noticed these get compiled
into
]] Juliusz Chroboczek
| > It's not like boot speed would be the only reason to avoid shell.
|
| I don't think that avoiding shell implies that all the distribution-
| specific initialisation code must be hard-wired in pid 1. I'd be more
| sympathetic to the idea of recoding everything in C if t
> It's not like boot speed would be the only reason to avoid shell.
I don't think that avoiding shell implies that all the distribution-
specific initialisation code must be hard-wired in pid 1. I'd be more
sympathetic to the idea of recoding everything in C if the initiali-
sation code lived in
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 11:58:41AM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> Presumably 1.4 is reaching the stable status, so scribus gets 1.4, and
> scribus-ng will get 1.5-ish later?
So both are essentially the same package right now? I find it rather confusing
to have two different names and, at least in
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Michael Meskes (19/07/2011):
> could anyone tell me what the difference between scribus and scribus-ng is?
> According to the description scribus-ng is the development branch but scribus
> itself is a later rc than -ng. Besides it appears to me that the package(s)
> could need a little bit of love
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Th
Hi,
could anyone tell me what the difference between scribus and scribus-ng is?
According to the description scribus-ng is the development branch but scribus
itself is a later rc than -ng. Besides it appears to me that the package(s)
could need a little bit of love.
Michael
--
Michael Meskes
Mic
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On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:48:35PM +, Uoti Urpala wrote:
> By the way, I think "in exchange for faster boot" is focusing too narrowly on
> boot speed. It's not like boot speed would be the only reason to avoid shell.
You do realize that you're talking to a mailinglist populated mostly by
peopl
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:05:56PM +, Uoti Urpala wrote:
> I think the important question is whether portability to other kernels is or
> should be a "project's goal", and how much else you're willing to lose for
> the sake of that goal.
Debian/kFreeBSD is here to stay, it's not going away. Wi
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Sven Hoexter writes:
> The question is what should be achieved with d/copyright?
> Give just a short overview over the main parts of the package or a complete
> overview of the complete package contents?
My understanding is, that it should be a complete overview of the source
licenses. I do not
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On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 10:26:36AM +0200, Gergely Nagy wrote:
Hi,
> ..and configure scripts have parts of autotools, Makefile.ins contain
> code from automake, and even compiled binaries contain stuff that
> originates from the compiler.
>
> I don't think these should be documented in debian/cop
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Hi,
Am Montag, den 18.07.2011, 10:49 +0100 schrieb Simon McVittie:
> * a tool that takes the same command-line parameters as a sysvinit script
> and implements them by parsing and running a systemd unit (which would
> result in sysvinit scripts that consist of LSB headers, plus one line
> sim
Nikolaus Rath writes:
> My sponsor requested me to add debian/copyright entries for files in the
> generated HTML documentation. The documentation is generated by Sphinx,
> and Sphinx adds some templates and js libraries which are then covered
> (at least that's what I believe) by the Sphinx lice
Le lundi 18 juillet 2011 à 10:49 +0100, Simon McVittie a écrit :
> I suspect that the shortest path from here to "kFreeBSD can run systemd units"
> would be to write one or both of:
>
> * a tool that takes a large subset of systemd unit (service) syntax as input,
> and outputs a sysvinit shell
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