Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Måns Rullgård
Glenn Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Sat, Dec 18, 2004 at 01:28:46AM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: >> >> I'm convinced enough. Some time ago, I was playing around with an >> >> emulator for Texas Instruments calculators. It obviously required a >> >> ROM image to be useful, and the only

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Brian Thomas Sniffen
Peter Van Eynde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I think I'm starting to understand your point of view. So _any_ use of > the software without using non-DFSG data makes it free, right? Any reasonable use. Printing out a "firmware not found" message doesn't count! > But what if loading the firmware

Re: GPL and LGPL issues for LCC, or lack thereof

2004-12-17 Thread Michael K. Edwards
I'll try to address the Specht case and summarize, and we can call this an end to the discussion if that's what you want. Bruce> You can read a case on the nature of consent such as Specht v. Netscape, Bruce> which might convince you that we don't necessarily get sufficient consent on Bruce> the

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Sat, Dec 18, 2004 at 01:28:46AM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: > >> I'm convinced enough. Some time ago, I was playing around with an > >> emulator for Texas Instruments calculators. It obviously required a > >> ROM image to be useful, and the only legal way of obtaining one was > >> dumping it f

Re: Linux Core Consortium

2004-12-17 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:45:15 -0800, Bruce Perens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > 1. (*) text/plain ( ) text/html > Wouter Verhelst wrote: >> 'ISV' is just another name for 'Software Hoarder'. >> > Please keep in mind this portion of Debian's Social Contract: >/We will support our users who d

Re: Linux Core Consortium

2004-12-17 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:51:54 -0800, Adam McKenna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 09:25:38PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: >> Op do, 16-12-2004 te 14:46 -0500, schreef Ian Murdock: >> > We've heard directly from the biggest ISVs that nothing short of >> > a common binary core w

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Måns Rullgård
Glenn Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 11:36:09PM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: >> > To me, that seems much like arguing that because an emulator (such as >> > one for a console system) provides a GUI, and because it can run and >> > display that GUI without needing a RO

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:23:54 +0100, Peter Van Eynde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Brian Thomas Sniffen wrote: >> Peter Van Eynde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >>> Is your name input for a state-machine? >> You should see what it does to TECO. My name is a killing word. > :-) >>> [data == software

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:52:56 -0800, Brian Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Glenn Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 11:07:31AM -0800, Brian Nelson wrote: >>> No, a definition of "software" was never decided upon. The vote >>> was about removing the word "software" i

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:53:51 +0100, Peter Van Eynde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Brian Thomas Sniffen wrote: >> Peter Van Eynde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >>> And now you consider it software just because the method of >>> storage is different? How can the nature of the bytes change >>> because t

Re: removing in postrm rc*.d symlinks that I did not create

2004-12-17 Thread Michal Politowski
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:49:13 +0100, Thomas Hood wrote: [...] > The idea behind > initscripts is that they do what they are told when they are run. > sysv-rc and file-rc implement two different schemes for > determining when they are run and with what arguments. I don't > see why people keep trying

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 11:36:09PM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: > > To me, that seems much like arguing that because an emulator (such as > > one for a console system) provides a GUI, and because it can run and > > display that GUI without needing a ROM, the emulator should go to main. > > I don't

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Brian Nelson
Glenn Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 11:07:31AM -0800, Brian Nelson wrote: >> No, a definition of "software" was never decided upon. The vote was >> about removing the word "software" in certain places from the DFSG, >> regardless of its definition. > > However, the

Re: Do you want XFree86 working out of the box?

2004-12-17 Thread Chasecreek Systemhouse
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 22:30:02 +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Try to install xdebconfigurator, > http://packages.debian.org/xdebconfigurator>, and see if it work > for you? To test it, install the package and run > xdebconfigurator && dexconf > This will replace your c

Bug#286141: ITP: kbandwidth -- Network interface monitor in KDE tray

2004-12-17 Thread Marcin Orlowski
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist * Package name: kbandwidth Version : 1.0.1 Upstream Author : Niko Sommer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> * URL : http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=18939 * License : GPL Description : Network interface monitor in KDE tray

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Josh Triplett
Peter Van Eynde wrote: > Brian Thomas Sniffen wrote: >> Peter Van Eynde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >>>[data == software ?] >> >> Bingo. Debian had this debate last year. There was a giant vote over >> it. Then another debate and another vote. > > Hmm. I remember we had an "editorial change"

Re: GPL and LGPL issues for LCC, or lack thereof

2004-12-17 Thread Bruce Perens
Olaf van der Spek wrote: Is that really JPEG? Or JTAG? That's all we need, lossy ROM image compression :-) Yes, JTAG. Thanks Bruce

Re: Do you want XFree86 working out of the box?

2004-12-17 Thread Bruce Perens
So, I did this a few days ago, and ddcprobe was not in any Debian package. Also, it got the mouse as /dev/input rather than /dev/input/mouse, and the resulting X configuration didn't work. It would be really nice if it worked. Thanks Bruce Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: Do you want a working

Do you want XFree86 working out of the box?

2004-12-17 Thread Petter Reinholdtsen
Do you want a working XFree86 configuration out of the box, without having to answer questions about your hardware? Try to install xdebconfigurator, http://packages.debian.org/xdebconfigurator>, and see if it work for you? To test it, install the package and run xdebconfigurator && dexconf T

Re: GPL and LGPL issues for LCC, or lack thereof

2004-12-17 Thread Olaf van der Spek
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:26:01 -0800, Bruce Perens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The LGPL requires that the creator of a derivative work provide the object > code for relinking, and not prohibit relinking and reverse engineering. It > does not, however, require that creator to take other necessary ste

Re: GPL and LGPL issues for LCC, or lack thereof

2004-12-17 Thread Bruce Perens
Michael K. Edwards wrote: Hopefully this continues to be interesting to debian-devel readers. It's not even interesting to me, and I hope that someone of greater legal competence sets you right and ends the discussion. The LGPL requires that the creator of a derivative work provide the

Re: Bug#285518: misdn-utils includes a firmware loader

2004-12-17 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 09:39:46AM +, Matthew Garrett wrote: > Glenn Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 02:37:45AM +, Matthew Garrett wrote: > >> Glenn Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> > No, there's a very concrete reason: given an installation of De

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 03:23:54PM +0100, Peter Van Eynde wrote: > Hmm. I remember we had an "editorial change" that then turned into > something completely different, followed by 6 damage limitation options and > 1 hard line option. A damage limitation option won, but I if I read the > matrix c

Re: Naming for OSSP projects in Debian (libraries, dirs)

2004-12-17 Thread Raphael Bossek
Hi Peter, > In fact I've already done that. The *.h goes to /usr/include/ossp/ and > library > name is libossp-uuid.so. There is no problem with names as far as I've > modified /usr/bin/uuid-config. Ok. I did not upload my packages until now. I will change the library and package name to libossp

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 11:07:31AM -0800, Brian Nelson wrote: > No, a definition of "software" was never decided upon. The vote was > about removing the word "software" in certain places from the DFSG, > regardless of its definition. However, the S in DFSG means "software"; the SC was adjusted to

Re: GPL and LGPL issues for LCC, or lack thereof

2004-12-17 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On re-reading the sequence of events, it looks like I was the one who switched the context of the hypothetical "reproducible build tools" obligation from GPL to LGPL. Bruce, my apologies for implying that you were the one who switched contexts. So we seem to agree that the support for this requir

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Brian Nelson
Brian Thomas Sniffen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Peter Van Eynde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> Brian Thomas Sniffen wrote: >>> Architectural plans for a house, shipped in a Debian package, are >>> software. >> >> I'm stunned. So anything in a Debian package is software. With alien I >> can co

Re: GPL and LGPL issues for LCC, or lack thereof

2004-12-17 Thread Michael K. Edwards
Hopefully this continues to be interesting to debian-devel readers. Perhaps replies should go to debian-legal; GMail doesn't seem to let me set Followup-To, but feel free to do so if you think best. I have copied Eben Moglen (General Counsel to the FSF) at Bruce's suggestion. Mr. Moglen, I am no

request for testing help and NMU

2004-12-17 Thread mbc
Hello all, I've been mostly out of commission for a while, and my key isn't currently in the keyring. I've been working with Jaqque to get it in, but we haven't finished that yet. But, I've had some requests for a new limewire package, and so I've made one. My problem is that I don't have acces

Re: RFC: common database policy/infrastracture

2004-12-17 Thread Matthijs Mohlmann
On Thu, 2004-12-16 at 15:34 +0100, Andreas Tille wrote: > On Thu, 16 Dec 2004, Olaf van der Spek wrote: > > > Is that the majority or the minority of applications? > > Take for example a web application like a forum. It requires the > > password so it can connect to the database. It can't/won't as

Re: Linux Core Consortium

2004-12-17 Thread Adam McKenna
On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 10:05:00AM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > Op do, 16-12-2004 te 17:07 -0800, schreef Adam McKenna: > > On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 01:13:11AM +0100, Bill Allombert wrote: > > > I think Wouter is only asking for reciprocity here. If they don't care > > > about his concerns why sh

Re: Problems to upload

2004-12-17 Thread Thomas Viehmann
[didn't sent to the list...] Andreas Tille wrote: On Fri, 17 Dec 2004, Andreas Metzler wrote: first place. Especially the hint to "PASSIV MODE" smells like something has changed to the situation before. | dput (0.9.2.15) unstable; urgency=low Perhaps this was the reason but I should probably reo

Bug#286105: ITP: pngwriter -- Library for plotting PNG image pixel by pixel

2004-12-17 Thread Miguel Gea Milvaques
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist * Package name: pngwriter Version : 0.5.0 Upstream Author : Paul Blackburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> * URL : http://pngwriter.sourceforge.net * License : GPL Description : Library for plotting PNG image pixel by pixel PNGwrite

Re: The LCC is a bad idea, but that doesn't mean the LSB doesn't have any issues

2004-12-17 Thread Bruce Perens
Wouter Verhelst wrote: Indeed; however, IMO excerting the right to modify as defined by the DFSG should never result in the loss of support, or other negative consequences, because in that case you might as well not have it. This type of certification does carry that kind of negative consequence.

Re: Help needed with debconf

2004-12-17 Thread Christoffer Sawicki
> > if [ "$variant" == "Unicode" ]; then > > > > That is a bashism which will fail if /bin/sh is dash. Use > > [ "foo" = "bar" ] instead. > > Thanks... are there any more pitfalls like this? [ expr -a expr ] is a pretty common "mistake". [ expr ] && [ expr ] should be used instead. (The same with

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Raul Miller
On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 10:33:41AM -0500, I clumsily wrote: > I was talking about the API the firmware uses -- the one that the program > contained in the API was designed to work with. That should have read: I was talking about the API the firmware uses -- the one that the program contained in t

Re: Default gcc for sarge, libunwind

2004-12-17 Thread Matthieu Delahaye
> > Why this library was suddenly deemed critical for the architecture after > > we were already 3 months into a toolchain freeze is another question. > > This I'd like to know, too > > > FWIW, these questions seem more appropriate to debian-devel than > > debian-mentors; these are not what I wo

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Raul Miller
> Raul Miller wrote: > > The API that is programmed by the firmware -- which you shouldn't confuse > > with the API used by the driver that downloads the firmware -- is not > > known to us. On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 03:51:22PM +0100, Peter Van Eynde wrote: > I don't understand you. Hmm... > An API

Re: Naming for OSSP projects in Debian (libraries, dirs)

2004-12-17 Thread Piotr Roszatycki
On Wednesday 15 of December 2004 21:05, you wrote: > I saw that you also ITP a OSSP (www.ossp.org) project for Debian: > OSSP uuid. I intent to do the same for OSSP sa. I'm using the sa > library successful for a small application so my intention is > make it public for others who intent to do the

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Peter Van Eynde
Raul Miller wrote: On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 10:39:26AM +0100, Peter Van Eynde wrote: The API is known, otherwise there would be no Linux driver. The API that is programmed by the firmware -- which you shouldn't confuse with the API used by the driver that downloads the firmware -- is not known to u

Re: Are mails sent to xxxx buildd.debian.org sent to /dev/null ?

2004-12-17 Thread Goswin von Brederlow
Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 11:10:15PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote: >> Jay Berkenbilt wrote: >> > I've sent messages to various [EMAIL PROTECTED] addresses many >> > times for various reasons, and they have all always been ignored. > >> Me too, for values of ign

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Peter Van Eynde
Brian Thomas Sniffen wrote: Peter Van Eynde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Is your name input for a state-machine? You should see what it does to TECO. My name is a killing word. :-) >>[data == software ?] Bingo. Debian had this debate last year. There was a giant vote over it. Then another debate

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Raul Miller
> Raul Miller wrote: > > Fundamentally, the DFSG is aimed at making sure that we can provide the > > software that we can support. Restrictions that leave us writing an > > opaque blob of bits which drives an unknown API very much put us into > > a context where we can't know that we're doing the

Re: Are mails sent to xxxx buildd.debian.org sent to /dev/null ?

2004-12-17 Thread Andrew Suffield
On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 04:59:15PM -0600, Dirk Eddelbuettel wrote: > As it stands, 4 downloads for s390 appear somewhat disproportionate to > 1,285,422 for i386. s390 is a little special, because it's neither a desktop nor a server architecture, but rather a mainframe one. One software installatio

Re: Bug#286027: ITP: ms-sys -- tool for writing Microsoft compatible boot records

2004-12-17 Thread Bartosz Fenski aka fEnIo
On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 01:56:43PM +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > | * Package name: ms-sys > | Version : 2.0.0. > | Upstream Author : Henrik Carlqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | * URL : http://ms-sys.sourceforge.net/ > | * License : GPL > | Description : tool

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Matthew Garrett
Brian Thomas Sniffen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Please at least read Policy on what "Depends" means first. If you > also read the archives, you'll have a chance at understanding the > position of other debaters here, and of generating original > arguments. So far, this is all a repeat. It was

Re: Bug#286027: ITP: ms-sys -- tool for writing Microsoft compatible boot records

2004-12-17 Thread Tollef Fog Heen
* Bartosz Fenski aka fEnIo | * Package name: ms-sys | Version : 2.0.0. | Upstream Author : Henrik Carlqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | * URL : http://ms-sys.sourceforge.net/ | * License : GPL | Description : tool for writing Microsoft compatible boot records

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Brian Thomas Sniffen
Peter Van Eynde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Brian Thomas Sniffen wrote: >> Peter Van Eynde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >>>And now you consider it software just because the method of storage is >>>different? How can the nature of the bytes change because they are >>>stored on a disk? >> The natur

Re: Problems to upload

2004-12-17 Thread Christian Perrier
Quoting Andreas Tille ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > But what me *really* concerns is why dput and dupload failed in the > first place. Especially the hint to "PASSIV MODE" smells like something > has changed to the situation before. I do not know something about > passive mode but I'm afraid somebody

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Brian Thomas Sniffen
Peter Van Eynde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Brian Thomas Sniffen wrote: >> Some firmware is part of the hardware. Some isn't. It's easy to tell >> -- either it's in the hardware or it isn't. Of course, the name >> "firmware" should make it clear that this is an often ambiguous line. >> But th

Re: RFC: common database policy/infrastracture

2004-12-17 Thread Andreas Tille
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004, Karsten Hilbert wrote: Well, see, the GnuMed bootstrapping does a lot more advanced things regarding "the database user". There's users and groups with varying levels of access to the database. However, if dbconfig-common creates the admin account we just use it. We can also de

Re: Bug#286027: ITP: ms-sys -- tool for writing Microsoft compatible boot records

2004-12-17 Thread Gürkan Sengün
i maintained ms-sys until the 1.1.3, i knew about 2.0 but didn't do the update. did you see some part of mbr code is free and some not? you probably want to talk to upstream, as i don't intend to maintain ms-sys anymore (i don't want non-free stuff generally). i was pointed to the package "mbr" i

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Tollef Fog Heen
* Peter Van Eynde | > Architectural plans for a house, shipped in a Debian package, are | > software. | | I'm stunned. So anything in a Debian package is software. With alien I | can convert a tar.gz into a debian package, so all tar files are | software. With tar I can create a tar.gz from any

[no subject]

2004-12-17 Thread Soumen Biswas
Sir/Madam, I have Intel Mainboard 915GEV inbuilt Lan Card. Unable to install driver for Debian Woody r3.0 ( 2.4.18 ). Please send a solution regards -- Soumen Biswas Dept. of CSE, College of Engg.& Mgmt, Kolaghat Ph: 03228-2331217,03228-233136 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: The LCC is a bad idea, but that doesn't mean the LSB doesn't have any issues

2004-12-17 Thread Wouter Verhelst
Op vr, 17-12-2004 te 01:40 -0800, schreef Steve Langasek: > On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 10:03:00AM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > Indeed; however, IMO excerting the right to modify as defined by the > > DFSG should never result in the loss of support, or other negative > > consequences, because in t

Re: Problems to upload

2004-12-17 Thread Andreas Tille
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004, Andreas Metzler wrote: But what me *really* concerns is why dput and dupload failed in the first place. Especially the hint to "PASSIV MODE" smells like something has changed to the situation before. [...] | dput (0.9.2.15) unstable; urgency=low | | * More verbose error mes

Re: RFC: common database policy/infrastracture

2004-12-17 Thread Karsten Hilbert
> >but something to point out: dbconfig-common already performs the > >administrative actions needed to set up the database and database user Well, see, the GnuMed bootstrapping does a lot more advanced things regarding "the database user". There's users and groups with varying levels of access to

Re: Bug#285518: misdn-utils includes a firmware loader

2004-12-17 Thread Jonathan McDowell
On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 06:29:46PM -0500, Glenn Maynard wrote: > On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 12:02:30AM +, Jonathan McDowell wrote: > > If we refuse to handle non-free firmware being loaded onto devices and > > require they come with it already inside then we get to play the "I > > can't see it, it

Re: Problems to upload

2004-12-17 Thread Andreas Metzler
Andreas Tille <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > But what me *really* concerns is why dput and dupload failed in the > first place. Especially the hint to "PASSIV MODE" smells like something > has changed to the situation before. [...] | dput (0.9.2.15) unstable; urgency=low | | * More verbo

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Matthew Palmer
On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 10:45:07AM +0100, Peter Van Eynde wrote: > Matthew Palmer wrote: > >>Should I go on? > > > > > >No, I think you've adequately demonstrated that you don't have the foggiest > >idea what you're talking about. > > Ok. I'm game. Why? Where is the error my in applying your rules

Re: The LCC is a bad idea, but that doesn't mean the LSB doesn't have any issues

2004-12-17 Thread Peter Van Eynde
John Goerzen wrote: On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 10:43:37PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: Thus, the answer to the failure of the LSB is not "the Free Software people should be more helpful to the non-free people"; the correct answer is "the non-free people should be more helpful to the Free Software peo

Re: Problems to upload

2004-12-17 Thread Andreas Barth
* Andreas Tille ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [041217 07:55]: > When trying manual ftp I found out that dosbox_0.63-2.dsc was put to master > but with zero bytes and I'm not allowed to remove this file. The _only_ way to remove failed uploads is to upload a commands file, e.g. with dcut. Cheers, Andi --

Re: OSPF and distance vector routing source code

2004-12-17 Thread David Pashley
On Dec 17, 2004 at 09:44, j.s.dhilip praised the llamas by saying: >hello, > Would you please told me how can I get source code for OSPF? > Makes a nice change from dualling banjos. -- David Pashley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

Re: removing in postrm rc*.d symlinks that I did not create

2004-12-17 Thread Thomas Hood
It has been suggested that you install symlinks[*] but provide an /etc/default/foo file with an environment variable that forcibly disables the service when set to "off" or whatever, and that the initscript be written so that it overrides this forced disabling when run from the command line. Of co

Re: Bug#286027: ITP: ms-sys -- tool for writing Microsoft compatible boot records

2004-12-17 Thread Bartosz Fenski aka fEnIo
On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 09:21:03PM -0600, Graham Wilson wrote: > > This is a Linux program for writing Microsoft compatible boot records. The > > program does the same as Microsoft "fdisk /mbr" to a hard disk or "sys d:" > > to a floppy or FAT partition except that it does not copy any system files

OSPF and distance vector routing source code

2004-12-17 Thread j.s.dhilip
hello,    Would you please told me how can I get source code for OSPF?Regardj.s dhilip chandran Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partner online.

OSPF and distance vector routing source code

2004-12-17 Thread j.s.dhilip
hello,    Would you please tell me how can I get source code for OSPF and distance vector ?  It would be of great  help to me , if u can send me some address related to linux based systems and of socket programming type. Regardsj.s dhilip chandran Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partne

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Peter Van Eynde
Matthew Palmer wrote: Should I go on? No, I think you've adequately demonstrated that you don't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about. Ok. I'm game. Why? Where is the error my in applying your rules? Groetjes, Peter

Re: Linux Core Consortium

2004-12-17 Thread Steve Langasek
On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 02:37:09PM -0500, Ian Murdock wrote: > On Tue, 2004-12-14 at 18:15 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > > This sounds a bit like the government whose country had three > > different types of power plugs. None compatible, of course. Somebody > > then got the great idea that if t

Re: Bug#285518: misdn-utils includes a firmware loader

2004-12-17 Thread Matthew Garrett
Glenn Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 02:37:45AM +, Matthew Garrett wrote: >> Glenn Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > No, there's a very concrete reason: given an installation of Debian >> > main, the driver works. Drivers that require non-free firmware d

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Peter Van Eynde
Raul Miller wrote: Fundamentally, the DFSG is aimed at making sure that we can provide the software that we can support. Restrictions that leave us writing an opaque blob of bits which drives an unknown API very much put us into a context where we can't know that we're doing the right thing. The A

Re: Bug#285518: misdn-utils includes a firmware loader

2004-12-17 Thread Frank Küster
Glenn Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 10:51:39AM +0100, Frank Küster wrote: >> When the issue of binary blobs in the kernel was first discussed here, >> if I'm not mistaken the proposed solution was to rewrite the respective >> drivers to be able to load the blob at ru

Re: The LCC is a bad idea, but that doesn't mean the LSB doesn't have any issues

2004-12-17 Thread Steve Langasek
On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 10:03:00AM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 11:01:16PM -0800, Bruce Perens wrote: > > You never lose the right to modify. You lose the right to claim that a > > modified version is the certified one. I addressed this specifically in > > DFSG section

Re: Bug#285518: misdn-utils includes a firmware loader

2004-12-17 Thread Peter Van Eynde
Glenn Maynard wrote: Hmm. A few places to draw the "dependency from driver to firmware" line seem to be: 1: a dependency exists if the driver needs access to a copy of the firmware (for devices that need the firmware uploaded on every boot); 2: a dependency exists if the hardware needs firmware at

Re: Are mails sent to xxxx buildd.debian.org sent to /dev/null ?

2004-12-17 Thread Andreas Metzler
Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jay Berkenbilt wrote: >> I've sent messages to various [EMAIL PROTECTED] addresses many >> times for various reasons, and they have all always been ignored. > Me too, for values of ignored that include "may have resulted in some > action, but never got a repl

Re: Default gcc for sarge, libunwind

2004-12-17 Thread Frank Küster
Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 08:13:31PM +0100, Adeodato Simó wrote: > >> [quoting me, Frank] > >> > Secondly, I'd like to learn what this libunwind is about and why >> > tetex-bin is linked against it on some (many!) arches, but not on >> > i386. The package

Re: Default gcc for sarge, libunwind

2004-12-17 Thread Frank Küster
Frank Lichtenheld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The libunwind issue is newer, you > probably just have to read the corresponding bug reports. Which bugs? TIA, Frank -- Frank Küster Inst. f. Biochemie der Univ. Zürich Debian Developer

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Peter Van Eynde
Brian Thomas Sniffen wrote: Some firmware is part of the hardware. Some isn't. It's easy to tell -- either it's in the hardware or it isn't. Of course, the name "firmware" should make it clear that this is an often ambiguous line. But this does seem to be a good practical place: can anybody with

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Matthew Palmer
On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 09:53:51AM +0100, Peter Van Eynde wrote: > I'm stunned. So anything in a Debian package is software. With alien I can > convert a tar.gz into a debian package, so all tar files are software. With > tar I can create a tar.gz from any file, so all electronic data is software

Re: LCC and blobs

2004-12-17 Thread Peter Van Eynde
Brian Thomas Sniffen wrote: Peter Van Eynde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: And now you consider it software just because the method of storage is different? How can the nature of the bytes change because they are stored on a disk? The nature of the bytes do not change. But my name, distributed in a D

Re: Linux Core Consortium

2004-12-17 Thread Marco d'Itri
On Dec 16, Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I refuse to accept that 'providing a common binary core' would be the > only way to fix the issue. It is probably the easiest way, and for lazy > people it may look as if it is the only one; but we should not dismiss > the idea that it is pos

Re: Linux Core Consortium

2004-12-17 Thread Wouter Verhelst
Op do, 16-12-2004 te 17:07 -0800, schreef Adam McKenna: > On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 01:13:11AM +0100, Bill Allombert wrote: > > I think Wouter is only asking for reciprocity here. If they don't care > > about his concerns why should he care about theirs ? Or alternatively > > "not caring" is a freedo

Re: The LCC is a bad idea, but that doesn't mean the LSB doesn't have any issues

2004-12-17 Thread Wouter Verhelst
On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 11:01:16PM -0800, Bruce Perens wrote: > You never lose the right to modify. You lose the right to claim that a > modified version is the certified one. I addressed this specifically in > DFSG section 4:/ > / > >/The license may require derived works to carry a differe

Re: Are mails sent to xxxx buildd.debian.org sent to /dev/null ?

2004-12-17 Thread Ingo Juergensmann
On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 08:51:52AM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: > [Ingo Juergensmann] > > Why? To make it public what buildd admins are the worst? > To make public the requests made regarding the autobuilders (others > can see existing requests, and do not have to send identical requests > aga

Re: Problems to upload

2004-12-17 Thread Andreas Tille
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004, Steve Langasek wrote: See the dcut command (or the README file in UploadQueue) for information on how to remove broken files from the ftp server. I do not find the string dcut in ftp://ftp-master.debian.org/pub/UploadQueue/README but the *.commands file would probably help a

Re: Are mails sent to xxxx buildd.debian.org sent to /dev/null ?

2004-12-17 Thread Petter Reinholdtsen
[Ingo Juergensmann] > Why? To make it public what buildd admins are the worst? To make public the requests made regarding the autobuilders (others can see existing requests, and do not have to send identical requests again), and to make sure the state of each request is available both to the reque

Re: Are mails sent to xxxx buildd.debian.org sent to /dev/null ?

2004-12-17 Thread Steve Langasek
On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 11:10:15PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote: > Jay Berkenbilt wrote: > > I've sent messages to various [EMAIL PROTECTED] addresses many > > times for various reasons, and they have all always been ignored. > Me too, for values of ignored that include "may have resulted in some > acti

Re: GPL and LGPL issues for LCC, or lack thereof

2004-12-17 Thread Bruce Perens
Michael K. Edwards wrote: What part of "normally distributed ... with ... the operating system" is confusing? The license requires that the source code all of the pieces that constitute a derivative work of some original piece of GPL code must be provided. This would be the original GPL pro

Re: Problems to upload

2004-12-17 Thread Steve Langasek
On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 07:50:16AM +0100, Andreas Tille wrote: > $ dput *.changes > Uploading package to host ftp-master.debian.org > ... > Good signature on > /home/tillea/debian-maintain/sponsor/dosbox/dosbox_0.63-2.dsc. > Uploading via ftp dosbox_0.63-2.dsc: Error '553 Could not create file.'

Re: Are mails sent to xxxx buildd.debian.org sent to /dev/null ?

2004-12-17 Thread Ingo Juergensmann
On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 11:10:15PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote: > Jay Berkenbilt wrote: > > I've sent messages to various [EMAIL PROTECTED] addresses many > > times for various reasons, and they have all always been ignored. > Me too, for values of ignored that include "may have resulted in some > actio

Re: The LCC is a bad idea, but that doesn't mean the LSB doesn't have any issues

2004-12-17 Thread Bruce Perens
Wouter Verhelst wrote: I don't know what the essense of Free Software is to you; You do so. I created the DFSG. It defines what the essense of Free Software is not only to me but to this project. However, to me, the essense of Free Software is that it allows one to modify the software as

Re: Are mails sent to xxxx buildd.debian.org sent to /dev/null ?

2004-12-17 Thread Ingo Juergensmann
On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 04:59:15PM -0600, Dirk Eddelbuettel wrote: > On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 11:34:55PM +0100, Ingo Juergensmann wrote: > > Although the problem is well known and the solution is obvious, nobody seems > > to have the guts to make a change (or even to speak about it). > Let's have

Problems to upload

2004-12-17 Thread Andreas Tille
Hi, did something changed in the upload queue?: $ dput *.changes Uploading package to host ftp-master.debian.org ... Good signature on /home/tillea/debian-maintain/sponsor/dosbox/dosbox_0.63-2.dsc. Uploading via ftp dosbox_0.63-2.dsc: Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of dosbo