How's this for a telling quote:
"I think it ought to be mandatory," Lopez said. "I just think it ought to
go nationally. . . . That database could be used for many things."
D.C. Plans ID Card for Students
Aim of DMV Database Is Missing Children
The ID cards, issued by the Department of M
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote :
>On 14 Aug 2001, at 17:34, Gabriel Rocha wrote:
>> Taming the Web
>> By Charles C. Mann September 2001
>>
>> "Information wants to be free." "The Internet can't be controlled."
>> We've heard it so often that we sometimes take for granted that it's
>> true. But THE
On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Tim May wrote:
>However, in a free society with protections similar to the First
>Amendment, what people like or dislike is not germane to what government
>may pass laws about. There is nothing in the First which allows
>government to regulate speech or music or any other suc
On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Sampo Syreeni wrote:
> Maybe, maybe not. I'm the first to agree that porn *should* be treated as
> equal to other speech,
But 'porn' is no more speech than 'murder' is. What makes porn so
offensive isn't the pictures, but the ACTS that had to be commited to
create the speec
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natsugusa ya...tsuwamonodomo ga...yume no ato
summer grass...those mighty warriors'...dream-tracks
Mats
On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Jim Choate wrote:
>> Maybe, maybe not. I'm the first to agree that porn *should* be treated as
>> equal to other speech,
>
>But 'porn' is no more speech than 'murder' is. What makes porn so
>offensive isn't the pictures, but the ACTS that had to be commited to
>create the spe
alright, this is the last thing I'm going to say on this particular
point... (heh, how many times have we heard *that* from me...)
On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> There are plenty, but most of us are too goddamn lazy to do it ourselves,
> and ask for an ORBS or MAPS like service
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On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Sampo Syreeni wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Jim Choate wrote:
>
> >> Maybe, maybe not. I'm the first to agree that porn *should* be treated as
> >> equal to other speech,
> >
> >But 'porn' is no more speech than 'murder' is. What makes porn so
> >offensive isn't the picture
Jimbo sniveled:
> The desire to get the 'speech' is what drives
> the act.
Nonetheless, they are separate and separable. Outlawing the act does not
require outlawing the speech.
> The images should be taken as evidence of the
> act and then destroyed. They should not in
> and of themselves be
On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
> Jimbo sniveled:
>
> > The desire to get the 'speech' is what drives
> > the act.
>
> Nonetheless, they are separate and separable. Outlawing the act does not
> require outlawing the speech.
No they are not. You can't make the picture without commit
On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On 16 Aug 2001, at 0:09, Sampo Syreeni wrote:
>
>
> > And I think if you look at the history of the Bill of Rights (which
> > Americans naturally know far better than I ever will), one does have some
> > reason to believe the "speech" in 1A is mos
On 16 Aug 2001, at 0:09, Sampo Syreeni wrote:
> And I think if you look at the history of the Bill of Rights (which
> Americans naturally know far better than I ever will), one does have some
> reason to believe the "speech" in 1A is mostly targeted at political speech,
> even if the meaning is
On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Jim Choate wrote:
>On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Sampo Syreeni wrote:
>
>> Maybe, maybe not. I'm the first to agree that porn *should* be treated as
>> equal to other speech,
>
>But 'porn' is no more speech than 'murder' is. What makes porn so
>offensive isn't the pictures, but the
At one point Seth was capable of sane arguments and discussions
without insults. This was, of course, many years ago, and now he's
just nutty and should not be taken particularly seriously.
-Declan
On Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 04:55:09PM -0700, Tim May wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 15, 2001, at 04:3
Jimbo sputtered:
> > > The desire to get the 'speech' is what drives
> > > the act.
> >
> > Nonetheless, they are separate and separable. Outlawing the
> act does not
> > require outlawing the speech.
>
> No they are not. You can't make the picture
> without commiting the act.
A not-so-clever s
On Wednesday, August 15, 2001, at 02:09 PM, Sampo Syreeni wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Tim May wrote:
>
>> However, in a free society with protections similar to the First
>> Amendment, what people like or dislike is not germane to what
>> government
>> may pass laws about. There is nothing in
[cypherpunky cryptobabble libertopians should take note!]
Available at: http://sethf.com/anticensorware/bess/loophole.php
BESS's Secret LOOPHOLE (censorware vs. privacy & anonymity)
Abstract: This report examines a secret category in N2H2's censorware,
a product often sold under the name "BESS,
On Wednesday, August 15, 2001, at 04:34 PM, Seth Finkelstein wrote:
> [cypherpunky cryptobabble libertopians should take note!]
>
>
Hit and run insults to our list, oh my!
I have decremented his reputation counter by the standard amount, and
have added his name to the Silicon Valley "don't hi
On Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 12:09:18AM +0300, Sampo Syreeni wrote:
> Americans naturally know far better than I ever will), one does have some
> reason to believe the "speech" in 1A is mostly targeted at political speech,
> even if the meaning is implied.
That's a common argument with which many Amer
On Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 01:18:47AM +0300, Sampo Syreeni wrote:
> Of course it's wrongheaded -- you're confusing the act, and the act of
> distributing a record of an act.
Well put. Photographs of murder are legal for newspapers to reproduce,
generally speaking, why not porn? But we can't expect C
On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Jim Choate wrote:
>The desire to get the 'speech' is what drives the act. To address one and
>ignore the other is simply not reasonable. The images should be taken as
>evidence of the act and then destroyed. They should not in and of
>themselves be left in circulation to pr
On Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 08:17:02PM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote:
> At one point Seth was capable of sane arguments and discussions
> without insults. This was, of course, many years ago, and now he's
> just nutty and should not be taken particularly seriously.
I'm sorry Declan, I just ca
On Wednesday, August 15, 2001, at 06:21 PM, Seth Finkelstein wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 08:17:02PM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>> At one point Seth was capable of sane arguments and discussions
>> without insults. This was, of course, many years ago, and now he's
>> just nutty and should
Pot. Kettle. Chip. Shoulder.
You boys are getting a little silly.
MacN
On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Tim May wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 15, 2001, at 06:21 PM, Seth Finkelstein wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 08:17:02PM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote:
> >> At one point Seth was capable of sane arg
On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
> Jimbo sputtered:
>
> > > > The desire to get the 'speech' is what drives
> > > > the act.
> > >
> > > Nonetheless, they are separate and separable. Outlawing the
> > act does not
> > > require outlawing the speech.
> >
> > No they are not. You can't
On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Tim May wrote:
> Many of us don't believe this common belief today, that the First is
> mainly about political speech, is consistent with the intent of the
> Framers.
Bullshit.
The framers made no such distinction. A little thought will demonstrate
why such a distinctio
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On Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 07:01:32PM -0700, Tim May wrote:
> ... Declan took the obvious and legal
> steps to limit his testimony to statements of the form:
>
> "Yes, I am a reporter for "Wired News.""
>
> "Yes, I wrote the story you are referring to."
"Yes, I affirm under oath that the article
-- Forwarded message --
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:33:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jim Choate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: Dennis Glatting <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Tim May wrote:
> By contrast, Jim Choate was visited by the FBI for one of the show
> trials and offered speculations that I (Tim) am a dangerous person with
> lots of guns and money. The court records show these depositions from
> Choate. No such malicious help came from
On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
> Oh it is? Well in that case, to be consistent, you'll have to tell us why
> the first amendment doesn't apply.
It does apply.
> Taking a picture is NOT free speech;
Making the picture is speech because it represents an expression.
> showing/publi
Dufus gasped:
> > > No they are not. You can't make the picture
> > > without commiting the act.
> >
> > A not-so-clever straw man. "Making" the picture is not the speech in
> > question, Duh. Distributing the picture is. And you can distribute the
> > picture, without committing the underlyin
--
On 15 Aug 2001, at 23:12, Seth Finkelstein wrote:
> I can't convey how ludicrous it seems to me. Declan is the
> Fed's best friend. That's not an insult, that's a fact.
Thats baloney.
Declan has been routinely harassed by the feds.
> He's provided
> important evidence that helped obtain
On Wednesday, August 15, 2001, at 08:17 PM, Jim Choate wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Tim May wrote:
>
>> Many of us don't believe this common belief today, that the First is
>> mainly about political speech, is consistent with the intent of the
>> Framers.
>
> Bullshit.
>
> The framers made no su
On Wednesday, August 15, 2001, at 08:12 PM, Seth Finkelstein wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 07:01:32PM -0700, Tim May wrote:
>> ... Declan took the obvious and legal
>> steps to limit his testimony to statements of the form:
>>
>> "Yes, I am a reporter for "Wired News.""
>>
>> "Yes, I wrote the
On Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 07:01:32PM -0700, Tim May wrote:
> From what I know of the situations, based on journalistic reports (from
> reports _other_ than from Declan), Declan took the obvious and legal
> steps to limit his testimony to statements of the form:
>
> "Yes, I am a reporter for "Wir
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