Re: [computer-go] The Enemy's Key Point Is My Own

2008-10-30 Thread Thomas Wolf
The typical situation is that two weak chains of opposite colours attached to each other have their few liberties (in the extreme case their single liberty) far apart. In simple Manhatten distance you can have these liberties easily as distant as you want, but if you think of empty points and chain

Re: [computer-go] The Enemy's Key Point Is My Own

2008-10-30 Thread Richard Brown
Thanks to all who replied. I particularly liked David's and Gunnar's clear examples of why the enemy's exact key point is not always exactly "my own". My foe's monkey jump is almost always better-prevented by my simple descent; the right distance for an extension differs for me and my foe; and so

Re: [computer-go] The Enemy's Key Point Is My Own

2008-10-28 Thread David Doshay
SlugGo was never intended to just be the multi-headed global lookahead on top of GNU Go that it is today. The idea has always been to have multiple go engines inside. We just picked GNU Go for the first because when we started that was the only decent open source program, so we built the infrastru

Re: [computer-go] The Enemy's Key Point Is My Own

2008-10-28 Thread Gunnar Farnebäck
David Doshay wrote: > One nasty form of "The Enemy's Key Point Is My Own" was the "reverse > monkey jump," where SlugGo would properly recognize that the opponent's > best move against it was a monkey jump, and properly see that stopping > that monkey jump was the best move, but it would then play

Re: [computer-go] The Enemy's Key Point Is My Own

2008-10-28 Thread David Doshay
On 28, Oct 2008, at 12:28 PM, terry mcintyre wrote: Sluggo has ( or had ) a particularly nasty form of "the enemy's key point is my own" - the program actually ran the GnuGo engine, so Sluggo knew precisely where GnuGo was most likely to play, and ( using a large cluster ) could give GnuGo

Re: [computer-go] The Enemy's Key Point Is My Own

2008-10-28 Thread Don Dailey
On Tue, 2008-10-28 at 12:28 -0700, terry mcintyre wrote: > The downside of overfitting to a particular opponent is that little > improvement versus other opponents was seen. I wonder what would happen if Sluggo used a second player (with a style much different from gnugo but still similar streng

Re: [computer-go] The Enemy's Key Point Is My Own

2008-10-28 Thread David Doshay
On 28, Oct 2008, at 11:23 AM, Richard Brown wrote: ... if there is someone who can explain to me why I have the nagging suspicion that a differential equation is involved here, ... I cannot tell why you have this nagging suspicion, but I can say that if you wish to look into it deeper you can

Re: [computer-go] The Enemy's Key Point Is My Own

2008-10-28 Thread terry mcintyre
> From: Richard Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > "The enemy's key point is my own" is often invoked, for example, as a > reason to occupy the central point of a _nakade_ shape, or to play a > double sente point, or to make an extension that would also be an > extension for the opponent. > Not on