Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

Hi Johanna, You could try the angle that a Clojure REPL is a practical adjunct to standard Java tooling, particularly if the developer is using IntelliJ since Cursive is extremely accessible. I wrote something along these lines: http://derek.troywest.com/articles/proximity-and-brevity. T

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

I think it depends also on the role a developer is in. If success on the job means plugging together what you are asked to plug together, then the risk/benefit analysis favors sticking with what you know. If success requires innovation, then you've got to look for new ideas that can give you le

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

Thank you for these suggestions, Paul. Especially the last bit about a working system. I'll look for an opportunity to do that. I loved your conj talk. Incredible! On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 6:04:42 AM UTC-7, Paul deGrandis wrote: > > I have had success here with a few approaches. > > For eve

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

I wrote this for a blog post, but I think it is relevant here. After a long comparison of a bit of code, first in Javascript and then in Clojure, I wrote: At this point, a Javascript developer might say, “You've shown that the Functional style has some advantage, but why should I care? I

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

I have had success here with a few approaches. For every company I work with that is new to Clojure, I provide them with a "Quick Learn" document. The document is split into 5-7 days, and every day they skim/read an article, poke around a resource (like ClojureDocs), and watch a talk. Sometim

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

I did read some of the answers on this topic but not all of them. From those I read, I feel they may not really be answering to the crux of the question: do the people you want to convince to use clojure actually care? Most software developers do software development for a living, and they couldn'

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

Leon, That sounds like hard-won experience, thank you for sharing it. I couldn't find a Paul DeGrandis talk with that name, would you happen to have a link? Is it "Clojure-Powered Startups" perhaps? Thanks, Johanna On Saturday, July 18, 2015 at 6:47:44 AM UTC-7, Leon Grapenthin wrote: > > I ha

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

I have tried various different approaches from convincing of Clojure advantages in the Java devs concrete domain, showing off incredibly awesome toy projects, larger projects, not tryng to sell, trying to sell, sending ClojureTV videos and what not approach you can think of. I have not managed

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

I have tried various different approaches from convincing of Clojure advantages in the Java devs concrete domain, showing off incredibly awesome toy projects, larger projects, not tryng to sell, trying to sell, sending ClojureTV videos and what not approach you can think of. I have not managed

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

Thanks so much for this really nice rundown. A few responses inline... On Thursday, July 16, 2015 at 3:23:17 AM UTC-7, Colin Yates wrote: > > Hi Johanna, you may intuit some of my experience by my posts on the DDD > groups ;-). > I've read them all. =) By far the hardest thing I found was ap

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

One other point I should have expanded more. Viewing your domain model as a state machine responding to a sequential list of commands allows you to easily isolate time as just another property. I have a [:set-time {:now ….}] which emits a [:time-set {:now …}] which opens the door to so many thin

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

Hi Johanna, you may intuit some of my experience by my posts on the DDD groups ;-). By far the hardest thing I found was applying DDD, identifying bounded contexts etc. However, from a technical point of view the thing that most stood out to me was the power of recording the decision, and effec

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

I am always eager to hear anything and everything about your experience with this. Especially downsides. =) I haven't done ES yet. My hydration code is definitely not that lovely. What do you think about ES vs Datomic? (Probably not the right thread for that question, huh?) On Sunday, July 12

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

Matt, Nice to hear you noticed it too! I saw a presentation once (wish I could remember where) about design patterns that are 100% unnecessary in Clojure. That definitely had an effect on my thinking. So much boilerplate... Thanks for your thoughts, Johanna On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 8:04:12

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

I do of course mean (reduce merge {} (event-store/load ar-id)) or (apply merge (event-store/load ar-id)) :) > On 12 Jul 2015, at 16:21, Colin Yates wrote: > > My latest project uses a CQRS and event sourcing design and the power it > gives, coupled with Clojure is just fantastic. Hydrating an

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

My latest project uses a CQRS and event sourcing design and the power it gives, coupled with Clojure is just fantastic. Hydrating an object becomes (merge {} (event-store/load ar-id)) - just fantastic. I too find a lot of sympathy between CQRS, event sourcing, FRP and Clojure which I keep meani

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

Johanna, I noticed you mentioned CQRS. In my work, we use CQRS heavily, specifically the Axon framework for Java (utilizing Spring and Hibernate). I got into Clojure through watching Rich Hickey's talks and figured that any language that he wrote had to be good. It's remarkable to me how clean

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

That's really cool, thanks! On Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 5:27:37 AM UTC-7, juvenn wrote: > > Hi Johanna, > > I don’t know if it'll work for your team, but I find Shaun Le Bron's > "Interactive guide to Tetris in ClojureScript” the most succinct and > beautiful way of showing power of Clojure

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

Hi Johanna, I don’t know if it'll work for your team, but I find Shaun Le Bron's "Interactive guide to Tetris in ClojureScript” the most succinct and beautiful way of showing power of Clojure and ClojureScript. https://github.com/shaunlebron/t3tr0s-slides Have fun! -- Juvenn Woo Sent with

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

Hi Johanna, I don’t know if it'll work for your team, but I find Shaun Le Bron's "Interactive guide to Tetris in ClojureScript” the most succinct and beautiful way of showing power of Clojure and ClojureScript. https://github.com/shaunlebron/t3tr0s-slides Have fun! -- Juvenn Woo Sent with

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

I ended up giving him a brief description of Clojure, with stress on its ability to do heavy lifting with very little code, and sent him a link to Neal Ford's talk "The Curious Clojurist" . We'll see what happens. Thanks everyone for your advice. On

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

Interesting opinion, I'll think that over. Thank you! On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 10:36:36 PM UTC-7, Erik Assum wrote: > > If you're a one-person team, don't be too worried. Your Clojure code will > likely not be too big, so it will be fairly easy to understand and possibly > rewrite to Java,

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

If you're a one-person team, don't be too worried. Your Clojure code will likely not be too big, so it will be fairly easy to understand and possibly rewrite to Java, if the truck thing was to happen. Erik. -- i farta > Den 10. jul. 2015 kl. 07.25 skrev Johanna Belanger > : > > That's a go

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

That's a good read, Sean. I'm a dedicated departmental programmer, and to be effective in my position, I need to be quick and nimble. For some of the problems I'm solving, my tools are causing an unsupportable amount of drag. Clojure would be a brilliant match. But because I'm a one-person tea

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

That brings up an interesting point - what's the ramp-up time usually like for the Java devs that convert to Clojure? On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 9:16:25 PM UTC-4, raould wrote: > > > and I need to be 10 times more productive. =) > > you mean, after your 2 week ramp-up time, right? > -- You

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

On Jul 9, 2015, at 7:58 PM, Johanna Belanger wrote: > I should say, because I'm worried this came across wrong, that I don't expect > him, or anyone, to learn Clojure for my sake, but only if they find value in > it. That's why I'm looking for a simple way to showcase the value. One caution I w

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

I should say, because I'm worried this came across wrong, that I don't expect him, or anyone, to learn Clojure for my sake, but only if they find value in it. That's why I'm looking for a simple way to showcase the value. On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 5:54:51 PM UTC-7, Johanna Belanger wrote: > >

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

Lol, that's an interesting reply. I'm suspecting it's a warning. Care to expand? On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 6:16:25 PM UTC-7, raould wrote: > > > and I need to be 10 times more productive. =) > > you mean, after your 2 week ramp-up time, right? > -- You received this message because you are

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

> and I need to be 10 times more productive. =) you mean, after your 2 week ramp-up time, right? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are modera

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

Thanks Sean =) On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 5:27:16 PM UTC-7, Sean Corfield wrote: > > On Jul 9, 2015, at 5:22 PM, Colin Yates > > wrote: > > There are two bookd you might want to give them, Functional Programing > for OO by Brian Marick and another one I can't remember the title of but > some

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

Thanks, Colin. That's really helpful. He seems very competent in the Java EE stack, too. In .Net, nothing ever stays the same long enough for me to get that comfortable. =\ One good thing is I don't actually need him to switch to Clojure, just to learn it well enough that he can understand my c

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

On Jul 9, 2015, at 5:22 PM, Colin Yates wrote: > There are two bookd you might want to give them, Functional Programing for OO > by Brian Marick and another one I can't remember the title of but something > like Functional Programming in Clojure and Scala. They might both help > provide an on-r

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

It's tricky, but I would ask them what pain points they experience with the Java stack and go from there. I find the biggest barrier is the "yeah, what I've got works fine"/complacency attitude. If they are perfectly happy where they are then great, lesve them to it and go be 10 times more producti

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

Thank you, Ralf! On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 3:28:14 PM UTC-7, Ralf Schmitt wrote: > > Johanna Belanger > writes: > > > Could anyone tell me how they got from enterprise Java to Clojure? > > Maybe the following links provide some useful information: > > http://blog.juxt.pro/posts/selling-cloju

Re: Advice on introducing a Java dev to Clojure

Johanna Belanger writes: > Could anyone tell me how they got from enterprise Java to Clojure? Maybe the following links provide some useful information: http://blog.juxt.pro/posts/selling-clojure.html http://www.pitheringabout.com/?p=693 http://www.lispcast.com/convince-your-boss-to-use-clojure