On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 10:54 AM emanuel stiebler wrote:
>
> On 2023-05-24 05:26, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
> > On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 5:29 AM Fred Cisin via cctalk
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Last time that I tried to research it, I found that there had once been an
> >> external drive in which the
On 2023-05-24 05:26, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 5:29 AM Fred Cisin via cctalk
wrote:
Last time that I tried to research it, I found that there had once been an
external drive in which the USB and controller werenot integrated with the
Alas some spoilsport has removed
On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 5:29 AM Fred Cisin via cctalk
wrote:
> Last time that I tried to research it, I found that there had once been an
> external drive in which the USB and controller werenot integrated with the
> drive electronics, so that it could easily get a different drive
> connected. I
Re: flux images.
Tony, There are flux images on the internet archive if you want to practice
using them.
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 18, 2023, at 12:20, Fred Cisin via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 18 May 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>> The idea's the same. What I'm a bit surprised
On Thu, 18 May 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
The idea's the same. What I'm a bit surprised about is that there has
been no emulation of a generic floppy controller offered. It can't be
that complex; if I recall correctly the NEC 765 only used 1100 words of
microcode.
That is exactly wh
Can you fix it using MODE.com from a DOS prompt?
Or, a full re-install of the USB-RS232 dongle?
On Thu, 18 May 2023, Tony Duell wrote:
Depends on what you mean by a re-install...
Asking Windows to check the driver and install the correct/latest one
did not help.
rarely does
Deleting the d
On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 8:03 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk
wrote:
>
> > >
> On Thu, 18 May 2023, Robert Feldman via cctalk wrote:
> > Can you fix it using MODE.com from a DOS prompt?
>
> Or, a full re-install of the USB-RS232 dongle?
Depends on what you mean by a re-install...
Asking Windows to che
On Thu, 18 May 2023, Robert Feldman via cctalk wrote:
Can you fix it using MODE.com from a DOS prompt?
Or, a full re-install of the USB-RS232 dongle?
Long ago, I learned, the hard way, that I should always make a complete
backup, or at least a restore point, before installing anything new,
>Message: 23
>Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 17:32:00 +0100
>From: Tony Duell
>Subject: [cctalk]
>
I run the greaseweazle under window 10 and windows 11. I havent' seen
any problems as of yet but I am using the command line utilities mostly.
On 5/18/2023 10:48 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 3:16 PM Antonio Carlini via cctalk
wrote:
At ~£25 you're unlikely to los
On 5/18/23 09:32, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
> On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 5:28 PM Mike Katz wrote:
>>
>> I run the greaseweazle under window 10 and windows 11. I havent' seen
>> any problems as of yet but I am using the command line utilities mostly.
>
> I was running from the command line too. T
On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 5:28 PM Mike Katz wrote:
>
> I run the greaseweazle under window 10 and windows 11. I havent' seen
> any problems as of yet but I am using the command line utilities mostly.
I was running from the command line too. Typing 'gw' just gets a
dialogue box moaning that the pro
On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 5:05 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk
wrote:
>
> On 5/18/23 08:48, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
>
> > I wish I'd never listened to people who said this was easy and would work
> > fine.
> >
> > Never again.
> >
>
> I warned you about modern open-source, didn't I?
Indeed you did.
On 5/18/23 08:48, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
> I wish I'd never listened to people who said this was easy and would work
> fine.
>
> Never again.
>
I warned you about modern open-source, didn't I?
I'm surprised that nobody suggested the Catweasel line. Probably one of
the first, if not the
On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 3:16 PM Antonio Carlini via cctalk
wrote:
> At ~£25 you're unlikely to lose much with either of the two front
> runners :-)
Unfortunately in my case that is not true.
I ordered a Greaseweazle earlier today and downloaded the software. Of
course there is no such thing as
On 2023-05-18 8:15 a.m., Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote:
There are other flux readers out there but they either don't seem to
have much momentum behind them (so you might be stuck if you need a new
format added) or they're closed like KyroFlux.
At ~£25 you're unlikely to lose much with e
On 18/05/2023 05:16, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
Now what are the options. Greaseweazle or ? What are the
advantages and disadvantates of each?
For the Greaseweazle it looks like I can get one and it seems to be
open source with schematics of the hardware. I'd prefer more buffering
of the d
Re. other flux options, there's also the KryoFlux floppy controller, or if
you're an Apple user the applesauce floppy controller.
The Greaseweazle is an open source solution, and likely the most cost
effective.
On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 12:16:42 AM EDT, Tony Duell via cctalk
wrote:
The earliest Osbornes were single density with ten 256 byte sectors per
track. I was able to write some code on TRS80 model 1 to read those.
Many PC FDCs, including the IBM 5150/5160, can not do FM/single-density.
Then Osborne came out with a "double density upgrade". The
MFM/Double-density Osbo
On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 9:28 PM Mike Katz via cctalk
wrote:
>
> I have to agree with the folk on here who recommend some kind of flux
> reader/writer like the greaseweazle.
OK, that's what I thought.
Now what are the options. Greaseweazle or ? What are the
advantages and disadvantates of eac
On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 8:49 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk
wrote:
> As much as Tony doesn't like it, I need to point out that a modern MCU
> quite often has as much (or more) RAM, and runs faster than many older
> PCs. Consider, for example, the lowly STM32H7A3 series. 1.4MB of RAM,
> 2MB of program
On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 8:38 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk
wrote:
> The earliest Osbornes were single density with ten 256 byte sectors per
> track. I was able to write some code on TRS80 model 1 to read those.
> Many PC FDCs, including the IBM 5150/5160, can not do FM/single-density.
>
> Then Osborne
That is because Amiga uses GCR recording rather then FM or MFM.
On Thu, 18 May 2023, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote:
Nope. You may have gotten confused with the Commodore 64 drives, which
were very Special, or perhaps early Apple gear.
The Amiga's disk controller supports both GCR and MFM, bu
On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 12:02:05PM -0500, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
> That is because Amiga uses GCR recording rather then FM or MFM.
Nope. You may have gotten confused with the Commodore 64 drives, which
were very Special, or perhaps early Apple gear.
The Amiga's disk controller supports both
Please forgive my typo, you are correct it was 5 1/4 inch not 5 1/2 inch.
The read track function works somewhat on the WD1791 if it is able to
sync up. Sometimes you need to read a track several times to get it to
read correctly. It also starts reading at the first address mark it
finds and
I have to agree with the folk on here who recommend some kind of flux
reader/writer like the greaseweazle.
It handles any format, handles most any data rate and has more ram/rom
and cpu horsepower than an old PC. And is the size of a deck of cards.
I have mine stored inside a dual 8" drive c
On Wed, 17 May 2023, Mike Katz wrote:
If you have access to a Gimix SS-50 6809 or 6800 system, Gimix used the
WD1791 in their double density disk controller. That controller can do
single and double density 5 1/2" and 8" disks (250KHz, 500KHz & 1MHz data
rates).
Some NEC 765 controllers, inc
If you have access to a Gimix SS-50 6809 or 6800 system, Gimix used the
WD1791 in their double density disk controller. That controller can do
single and double density 5 1/2" and 8" disks (250KHz, 500KHz & 1MHz
data rates).
On 5/17/2023 2:38 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
As for the targe
On 5/17/23 12:22, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> If you know of an external USB drive that does have the cpabilities of a
> standard PC disk controller, please tell us what you can of make, model,
> supplier, availability, etc.
Interestingly, the Micro Solutions Backpack floppy drives do have all
As for the target machine having a serial port, one of the machines I
want to get stuff onto is an Osborne 1A. The serial port on that is
horrible.
On Wed, 17 May 2023, Robert Feldman via cctalk wrote:
For CP/M computers such as the Osborne, you can read and write their
diskettes on an MS-DOS c
What they won't handle are DD formats that don't use the standardPC
disk controller: Amiga disk, DD Mac disks, etc.
The few external USB drives that I have tried can't even handle most of
the stuff that a standard PCdisk controller can. Their firmware is locked
in to a few specific formats, w
>Message: 21
>Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 04:56:05 +0100
>From: Tony Duell
>Subject: [cctalk] Re: ST-251 Data Recovery for Glenside Color Computer
> Club (GCCC)
>As for the target machine having a serial port, one of the machines I
>want to get stuff onto is an Osborne 1
That is because Amiga uses GCR recording rather then FM or MFM.
On 5/17/2023 11:53 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
On Wed, 17 May 2023 at 05:29, Fred Cisin via cctalk
wrote:
Have they stopped making ones that include 720K?
I have 2 USB floppy drives and have successfully read 720 kB disks
w
On Wed, 17 May 2023 at 05:29, Fred Cisin via cctalk
wrote:
>
> Have they stopped making ones that include 720K?
I have 2 USB floppy drives and have successfully read 720 kB disks
with them, and also MacOS 1.4 MB disks.
I think they should also write 720 kB disks.
What they won't handle are DD f
On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 5:54 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk
wrote:
>
> On 5/16/23 21:29, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>
> >> From what I've heard, there has been substantial progress on the flux
> > transition devices, with decoding the track to sectors, and even support
> > of some file systems!
> >
>
On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 5:29 AM Fred Cisin via cctalk
wrote:
>
> >> Similarly, he could buy a cheap external USB 3.5" drive. Write content to
> >> that drive on the modern machine, and read those floppies on the older
> >> machines. The readily avaailable one have firmware that only supports
> >
On 17/05/2023 04:56, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
EXACTLY! I was told that was the best solution for this sort of thing.
Are there any downsides to doing it that way?
If I do go that route, what are the options? I have no knowledge of
them and thus no preference for one over another
As I said a
On 5/16/23 21:29, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>> From what I've heard, there has been substantial progress on the flux
> transition devices, with decoding the track to sectors, and even support
> of some file systems!
>
For years I have been telling the community that flux transition is
easy-p
On 5/16/2023 4:43 PM, dave.g4...@gmail.com wrote:
Jim,
I would ask on here:-
https://groups.google.com/d/forum/mfm-discuss
to see if any one has one of these
https://www.pdp8online.com/mfm/mfm.shtml
which will image an MFM disk so you are not re-reading and probably damaging
your original, a
On 5/16/2023 4:05 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
> At the most recent CoCoFEST!, I brought home the old Glenside Club
> Computer Hard Drive. The mechanism is an ST-251, and I was wondering
> if someone on-list would be willing to attempt to pull data off the
> drive. I have no abili
On 5/16/2023 3:54 PM, Mike Katz wrote:
I'm sorry but I am not familiar with any CoCo OS hard disk formats.
All valuable information, but I am not concerned about the FS format.
ONce the data can be retrieved from the platters, either I or others can
write some code or create a way to view th
Similarly, he could buy a cheap external USB 3.5" drive. Write content to
that drive on the modern machine, and read those floppies on the older
machines. The readily avaailable one have firmware that only supports
720K, 1.4M, and [sometimes] NEC-style "mode 3".
On Wed, 17 May 2023, Tony Duell
On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 11:42 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk
wrote:
>
> On Tue, 16 May 2023, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
> > Tony in response to your original idea of wanting to download images for
> > use on you existing machines ( did i get that right?), i think you have
Yes. I've got the machines runn
On 5/16/23 18:57, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
The biggest drive I remember seeing on OS/9 was 20MB or 40MB. I
don't remember the File Allocation Table size or format.
>>> Well, that would be "spot on", as the formatted capacity of an ST-251
>>> was
>>> 40 Megabytes.
>
>>> When used wit
The biggest drive I remember seeing on OS/9 was 20MB or 40MB. I
don't remember the File Allocation Table size or format.
Well, that would be "spot on", as the formatted capacity of an ST-251 was
40 Megabytes.
When used with MS-DOS, prior to
MS-DOS 3.31, it would be partitioned as
two 20MB,
On Tue, May 16, 2023, 8:30 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk
wrote:
> Well, that would be "spot on", as the formatted capacity of an ST-251 was
> 40 Megabytes.
>
> When used with MS-DOS, prior to
MS-DOS 3.31, it would be partitioned as
> two 20MB, or as a 32MB plus an 8MB.
> (V3.31 was the first version
The biggest drive I remember seeing on OS/9 was 20MB or 40MB. I don't
remember the File Allocation Table size or format.
On 5/16/2023 7:14 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
On Tue, 16 May 2023, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
Most likely there was some kind of driver for the CoCo that converted
th
Well, that would be "spot on", as the formatted capacity of an ST-251 was
40 Megabytes.
When used with MS-DOS, prior to MS-DOS 3.31, it would be partitioned as
two 20MB, or as a 32MB plus an 8MB.
(V3.31 was the first version of MS-DOS to support a partition larger than
32MB)
On Tue, 16 May
On Tue, 16 May 2023, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
Most likely there was some kind of driver for the CoCo that converted
the ST-251 into smaller logical drives for the CoCo Operating system.
One fellow, who used to be involved in Cocos, recalls one or more systems
that handled it by MANY "virtua
On 5/16/23 16:04, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>
>
> For Jim Brain's Coco disk, my inclination would be to image it on an ISA
> machine using the WD controller. but, an argument was made that a flux
> transition read might be a way to cut down on the number of reads.
Bear in mind that the datar
On Tue, 16 May 2023, Wayne S wrote:
Fred, glad you chimed in.
If you have the original post, Tony wants to download different things images
for those machines, probably from the internet and use the software on those
machines via floppy. As another item, he acquired a coco computer hard disk
On Tue, 16 May 2023, Kenneth Gober via cctalk wrote:
On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 11:21 PM Jim Brain via cctalk
wrote:
At the most recent CoCoFEST!, I brought home the old Glenside Club
Computer Hard Drive. The mechanism is an ST-251, and I was wondering if
someone on-list would be willing to att
Fred, glad you chimed in.
If you have the original post, Tony wants to download different things images
for those machines, probably from the internet and use the software on those
machines via floppy. As another item, he acquired a coco computer hard disk
that he like to get the data from. A
On Tue, 16 May 2023, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
Tony in response to your original idea of wanting to download images for
use on you existing machines ( did i get that right?), i think you have
everything you need already. Download the images to your win 8 box then
use file transfer software (ker
Tony in response to your original idea of wanting to download images for use on
you existing machines ( did i get that right?), i think you have everything you
need already. Download the images to your win 8 box then use file transfer
software (kermit or xmodem) to serially transfer to the spec
On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 4:05 PM Dennis Boone via cctalk
wrote:
> > At the most recent CoCoFEST!, I brought home the old Glenside Club
> > Computer Hard Drive. The mechanism is an ST-251...
<
> The best way to approach this, given the interchange issues with MFM
> disk controllers, is probably t
Jim,
I would ask on here:-
https://groups.google.com/d/forum/mfm-discuss
to see if any one has one of these
https://www.pdp8online.com/mfm/mfm.shtml
which will image an MFM disk so you are not re-reading and probably damaging
your original, an can then analyse the content at your leisure
Dave
> At the most recent CoCoFEST!, I brought home the old Glenside Club
> Computer Hard Drive. The mechanism is an ST-251, and I was wondering
> if someone on-list would be willing to attempt to pull data off the
> drive. I have no ability to configure to read this drive type, and
> the data is
Just having the ISA card will probably not be enough unless you can find
an operating system that has drivers for that particular controller
hardware and disk format.
The color computer only had a few floppy formats (Coco, OS/9, Flex/StarDOS).
As for hard disk formats, I have no idea. I ran F
On 5/16/2023 3:00 PM, Kenneth Gober wrote:
On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 11:21 PM Jim Brain via cctalk
wrote:
At the most recent CoCoFEST!, I brought home the old Glenside Club
Computer Hard Drive. The mechanism is an ST-251, and I was
wondering if
someone on-list would be willing t
On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 11:21 PM Jim Brain via cctalk
wrote:
> At the most recent CoCoFEST!, I brought home the old Glenside Club
> Computer Hard Drive. The mechanism is an ST-251, and I was wondering if
> someone on-list would be willing to attempt to pull data off the drive.
>
In my experienc
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