8 power supply schematic?
Ben.
Reads post, I have no Windows key on my keyboard, can I use Any other key?
Ben. With a real IBM keyboard.
-
run signals from one chassis to another (or to I/O devices). I
assume those were all done by hand; it's not obvious how a robot could do that
in the early 1960s, unlike wire wrap backplanes.
And all the wires tuned to have the same delay I bet.
paul
Ben.
On 2025-07-04 4:15 p.m., Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
Yeah, this was 1978.
What we used to spend on IT stuff back then is really amazing.
So much!
True, but you got field service,
not some AI telling you read web page xxx, with a dead computer.
Ben.
PS: serial port had some active input on boot
e
first boot to BASIC system? (and fairly full featured, with floating point
and trig functions)
Altair was still a home-brew system, with what ever you had on the S100
bus.With no standard I/O one had to patch BASIC.Did CP/M have a BASIC?
I always thought the apple II was first.
-Steve
Ben.
On 2025-06-24 12:45 p.m., Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
P.S.
mylar/plastic was used for read many tapes. That is a tape that is going to be
red many times and usually holds some critical program. The center sprocket
really could eat up paper tapes. That’s why some material with durability was
need
Ben.
I saw another similar utility on Hackaday that uses a laser, but it did
not have as many format options.
https://hackaday.com/2025/01/29/paper-tape-with-lasers/
Steve.
Https://unimplementedtrap.com/paper-tape-punch
instead of paper tape.
Ben.
PS: A turning machine using ink to mark the tape (film leader).
https://aturingmachine.com/index.php
On 2025-06-21 11:35 a.m., Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
IIRC the tape drives on the Colecovision ADAM were way over-spec'ed for
that machine and thus quite high-speed.
$200 working on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/177209174952
That would be a option if I had schematic
.
--
Anders Nelson
w
minal/>
I have big terminal already, but vintage IO is planned soon.
Scott
Ben.
n PDP-8 replicas. With out the TTY
the basic PDP-8 is rather crippled, and tethering it to PC for I/O
does not make a standalone computer. I have outgrown 12 bits, and slowly
moving on to 18 bits, so I have not really looked at the replicas in detail.
Ben.
On 2025-06-21 1:18 p.m., Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
Actual oiled paper tape that meets specs is difficult to make.
You need a thick stock and the tape is impregnated with oil to lubricate the
punch mechanism.
The actual specs for it is available on Bitsavers.
That said, old, unused paper tape s
tape toy sized if they made one, like the wall hanging PDP8's.
On wish list, a flex writer or TTY video display replacement, ie
overstrike and underline in 2/3 size VT100 case.
Ben.
https://www.instructables.com/23-Scale-VT100-Terminal-Reproduction/
will just throw it in box.
At one time you had 3 chapters in the computer XXX manual on how to
unpack and install power for the computer, showing how important packing
was at time.
Ben.
On 2025-06-20 8:07 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
ULTRA RARE PDP-11 DIGITAL DEC 1970's PC05 PR11 HIGH SPEED Tape Reader
ONLY
$2.00
$580.00 shipping
bill
What is the real price of shipping for big things, like rack mounted
PDP-XYZ in a wooden crate? Back then big iron was big iron.
Ben.
will will never know.
And if your interest is in vintage architecture rather than vintage hardware,
5V logic has little relevance.
Both,but 5 volt IO is still important since I like to use classic chips
like the 6850 or TIL311's or have slow BUS.
Ben >> " Can we still get t
cornered the basic market.
A final point is that most of the old mens techniques remain current, Wilkes
used microcode ~1950. What changes, is the price point at which you can reduce
to practice.
Martin
Here is $10.00 bribe to support RISC.
Ben.
TTL could go.
Look here for an example of a processor (Datapoint 2200) in TTL :
https://bitsavers.org/pdf/datapoint/2200/jdreesen_shematics/DP2200_mb.pdf
Jos
Micocoded coded machines, could likely be programed to run basic.
Ben.
y not an indicator of what they're likely to
publish, but because they're trying to cover the entire retro scene, it's going
to be more COMPUTE and less Gazette. Which is fine, but it's not Gazette.
Nor is it Dr. Dobbs.
Home brew retro 8 bit hardware is popular.
Ben.
On 2025-04-29 6:53 a.m., Henry Bent via cctalk wrote:
Hi all,
Is anyone else having trouble with decuslib.com? I can connect but I never
get a response from the server.
-Henry
Same problem here.
What are you looking for, some one here may have a copy.
Ben.
Perhaps it is time to look at AI, 50 years ago.
Byte vol 3 jan - brains of men and machines.
Have we gotten farther in better computer tech?
Ben.
GO ANALOG - GET YOUR BRAIN IN A BOTTLE TODAY 99 cent special,
SEE 'EVIL MINIONS R US'.
On 2025-04-04 8:37 p.m., Michael Huff via cctalk wrote:
I've played with using ChatGPT to write code for older things (quickbasic,
1990's C++, stuff like that). In my experience it gets confused and gives
you snippets that has features from later, modern languages. I'm far from
an expert but it f
On 2025-04-02 6:10 p.m., Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
Except that no one ever wrote code like it offered me cause
it was just plain wrong and wouldn't work.
I write code like that all the time:)
bill
Have the tools really improved all that much to write better code
or debug it since t
source material from the net)
thrown at it.
Other than in Si-Fi novels and movies, what use is a AI?
Ben.
parts costing nuts.
> I would try this approach.
>
Can a similar bus to the unibus be designed with standard parts using
fewer cards?Memory and IO could all fit on one card.
> Andrea
Ben.
xed system programs use. I am doing the same for my computer.
Did any other computers have the same concept before the 1977?
Ben.
On 2025-03-14 3:16 p.m., Holm Tiffe via cctalk wrote:
:-)
Jon I don't think that there is a cause for thanking me for somewhat..we
all getting older and the memory fades all the time.
I don't think it fades, just slower access time.
Regards,
Holm
You can learn it all again In one's second
eams marking a whole new style of computing.
paul
Ben.
On 2025-03-13 1:36 p.m., Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
Depends on which one. RTL was 3.6 volts positive, as far as I can remember. I actually
have a keyboard that has some of those devices in it. Yes, ECL is around 3 volts also
but negative supply. And of course some people designed system
with a FPGA, is to design a
computer with programmable microcode into block ram.
Then you could have PDP XYZ, IBM 360, A ALGOL machine,ect.
Ben.
cient..
(Coffee machine?)
Come on, use a PI for the coffee machine, it has to be connected to the
net so the world knows when the brew is done. :)
Regards,
Holm
Ben.
lems arent my biggest, the biggest problem
is spare time.
Trade you my extra spare time, for some 'round to-its'.
Regards,
Holm
Ben.
g 1 + 2.
if you get 5, you are using large values of 2.
if you get 42, you have mice problems. :)
It takes a lot of work to get here on any cpu.
Ben.
etty quiet bitslice mailing list. Are you on it?
Well it so quiet, I never heard about it.
Where is it?
Ben.
bay page has pictures: https://www.ebay.com/p/10020043211
I don't have anything todo with the seller.
Poland seems to have alot of odd stuff on ebay
like N3002's. Hint, Hint :)
While waiting for data, now is good time to think about software.
Ben.
Kind Regards,
Holm
PS.
I have olde
On 2025-02-21 2:09 p.m., Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
That’s a side channel attack.
If there ever was one.
Was there ever a proof of concept made of that theory ?
Only when the BLACK helicopters show up.
On 2025-02-21 11:55 a.m., John via cctalk wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 12:00:07 -0600
Paul Koning wrote:
What is the problem with ISRs running in a user stack? The ISR
runs, exits, the stack is cut back, and net effect on the user's
stack is zero.
A stack access fault in user mode kills the pr
On 2025-02-17 12:30 p.m., Paul Koning wrote:
On Feb 17, 2025, at 12:04 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
On 2025-02-17 7:26 a.m., Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
...
The problem was fixed fairly well with the introduction of the DEC Multinational
Character Set, which later morphed into ISO Latin-1
ounds checking on the calls.
On a iterative approach, one can recover from bad input.
--Chuck
Ben.
erminal ?
There must be thousands in dumpsters with unicode 1.0.
paul
I use TeraTerm 4, as termial. Could you supply a windows "DEC
Multinational Character Set" font so I know the program will work correctly.
Ben.
Did any classic computers have a subroutine call as (S++)=PC, PC=(EFA)
as well as the standard call (--S)=PC,PC=(EFA) ?
One could have a virtual stack machine, using helper functions without
having to deal with return addresses on the stack.
Ben.
o spend more time
on the evils of a dangling else, and gloss over the run time action of
a display.
Have a good example or reference book I can find free on line.
Also is there a ENGLISH description of the EL-X8?
Ben.
On 2025-02-16 1:51 p.m., paul.kimpel--- via cctalk wrote:
I don't understand -- ASCII had only two versions, 1963 and 1967, and both had
square brackets. The IBM PC used ASCII, but had nothing to do with its
standardization.
https://archive.org/details/enf-ascii-1965-1966/page/n47/mode/2up
On 2025-02-16 7:32 a.m., Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
A lot of early "ALGOL" compilers did major subsetting because it was considered to hard
to do the real language. Those subsets may not actually bear any real resemblance to the actual
language. For example, a "subset" that omits recursio
On 2025-02-15 1:14 p.m., Johan Helsingius via cctalk wrote:
On 15/02/2025 20:53, ben via cctalk wrote:
Some how 6 bit characters seems more standard, text wise,
compared with the mess with accented characters and money characters
of today.
6 bit characters were fine if you didn't care
cters seems more standard, text wise,
compared with the mess with accented characters and money characters
of today.
Is there any thing a ALGOL compiler needs for good code generation
other than ample index and GP resisters?
Ben.
On 2025-02-11 9:32 a.m., Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote:
The proper solution to dodgy PC serial port performance was of course to
upgrade to the 16550 which had a FIFO which could buffer a few bytes while
the PC got round to answering the interrupt. It's not the greatest UART and
adds novel fail
On 2025-02-03 5:37 p.m., Sean Conner via cctalk wrote:
Do you mean you want a compiler to generate 16-bit code? Or be compiled
as a 16-bit program to run under Linux? If the later, it's not supported,
or at least, not supported by default [1].
I was hoping to use Embeddable Linux Kernel S
On 2025-02-03 5:06 p.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 2/3/25 15:47, ben via cctalk wrote:
No compiler generates bad code,just some hardware was never meant to
have stack based addressing, like the 6502 or the 8088/8086.
Really? The x86 family does indeed have stack-based addressing. In
hone works.
I need it top secret I have shoe phone.
--Chuck
It is not malware, but good marketing to have to upgrade
on every release.
Ben.
PS. is me or just the internet browsing getting so full of ads
and questionable redirects that on can't use it any more.
On 2025-02-03 3:32 p.m., Sean Conner via cctalk wrote:
It was thus said that the Great ben via cctalk once stated:
At the root of Open Source is you, the user, have the right to the
source code.
In the early days, that's as far as it went but especially after the
Morris Worm, sec
>
> At the root of Open Source is you, the user, have the right to the
source code.
>
> In the early days, that's as far as it went but especially after the
> Morris Worm, security became very important, Open Source afforded
> users the ability to inspect the code for vulnerabilities in ways tha
On 2025-02-02 11:02 p.m., Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote:
I have numerous co-workers that bash Microsoft all day long. And yeah,
I've had my Windows hourglass twirl around inexplicitly. "I'm not DOING
anything, why am I hourglassed?" But I respect the challenge of trying to
get millions of peop
On 2025-02-02 11:09 p.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 2/2/25 17:22, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote:
Not quite lost. The 1802 crowd is doing amazing things.
See https://groups.io/g/cosmacelf/message/33678
And if you know anything about the 1802, it's, uh, not so speedy.
At its introductio
On 2025-02-01 10:11 a.m., Maciej W. Rozycki via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025, roger arrick via cctalk wrote:
I'm happy to see people using the correct shell letter for DSubs around
here! Oldschool wisdom.
You kinda have to when you get at things such as DA-3W3.
Maciej
I have no i
On 2025-02-01 6:37 a.m., Frank Leonhardt via cctalk wrote:
IME +/- 12V was a de-facto standard on microcomputers because they
already had a +12V and -12V rail, along with +5V. The ubiquitous 4116
DRAM needed +5V, -5V and +12V so +/- 5V was a popular option too.
Apple was smart with their swit
nk.
Once I get better mother board PCB working, I then can
work on some kind of disk io, and timer interrupt.
No MMU is planned.
Ben.
On 2025-01-31 4:25 a.m., Frank Leonhardt via cctalk wrote:
A couple of points you might like to consider, which you may already
know but stuff you've said above doesn't spell it out:
RS232 is not serial - make yourself clear. Before RS232 the same data
format was used in current loop (often 2
On 2025-01-26 12:11 p.m., Joseph S. Barrera III via cctalk wrote:
On 1/25/2025 5:55 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
Can this stop already?
Will the circle be unbroken?
(Except that some people maintain it's a square)
I pick 3, the Reuleaux.
Ben.
PS: Less fiction with this topic,
On 2025-01-24 11:04 p.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
And, it would was close enough to make it obvious that if you want to
sail west from europe to the indies, you are going to run out of
supplies long before you get there! Unless you are dumb lucky, and
happen to bump into some land on the
On 2025-01-23 8:15 a.m., Alexander Schreiber wrote:
On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 12:52:49PM -0700, ben via cctalk wrote:
On 2025-01-21 10:54 a.m., Paul Koning wrote:
Uh, what? How would the earth surface gravity be that much different? "Citation
needed" as Wikipedia would say.
On 2025-01-21 10:54 a.m., Paul Koning wrote:
Uh, what? How would the earth surface gravity be that much different? "Citation
needed" as Wikipedia would say.
paul
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodynamics
were just crawling onto land.
They just seem more interesting than today's RISC's. Byte addressing
may have been a step backwards do to the loss 1 bit the order code
and 1 bit in address ranges.
Ben.
On 2025-01-20 7:41 a.m., cz via cctalk wrote:
That is not a solution either: It just locks the AI into a 2015 or so
time period where they can't adapt to changing writing or speaking
styles. All the output is going to sound like an outdated person.
I'm already seeing this in "appliance repair"
On 2025-01-19 2:15 p.m., Frank Leonhardt via cctalk wrote:
While we're at it, biological science had clearly been unable to create
life. Not even a single cell. And I've no reason to believe we're about
to see a breakthrough it that either.
You have not seen the stuff way behind in my fridge
On 2025-01-19 11:03 a.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 1/19/25 09:39, Carlos E Murillo-Sanchez via cctalk wrote:
What happened to them? They're everywhere in academic papers. They've
become an easy way to get published. Nowadays they make up so many bio-
inspired variations of these algori
On 2025-01-19 6:12 a.m., Adrian Godwin via cctalk wrote:
I like to parse the 'artificial' differently. It's not AN artificial
intelligence - a manufactured entity that exhibits intelligence - it's JUST
artificial intelligence - something that appears to be intelligence but
isn't, like artificial
On 2025-01-19 3:07 a.m., Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, Jan 18, 2025 at 08:27:05PM +, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote:
[...]
My robot vacuum has taken to asking "Please empty my dustbin and clean my
filter" about 5 minutes after I did that. More annoyingly, it insists that
"I'm stuck
On 2025-01-18 1:42 p.m., Frank Leonhardt via cctalk wrote:
Around 1981 I wrote what would now be called chatbot in 6502 (on an OSI
500 board - obligatory old computer content) that was placed in our
local library for the public to have a go on. Because most people hadn't
seen a computer, never
On 2025-01-18 1:27 p.m., Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote:
On 18/01/2025 15:36, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
A little humor for the group.
I also have a bunch of iRobot Roombas in my house. Based on my
experience with AI and robots I think there is no chance we will
have to worry about
h like a 16-bit
derivative of Burroughs ALGOL.
Gadzooks, A PDP running something other than B ^H C. :)
paul
Did Burroughs ALGOL, make cleaner software for people that used it?
What about FORTRAN users? (I keep wanting to spell FORTAN)
Ben.
On 2025-01-17 7:59 a.m., Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
Pascal is really sort of a dialect of Algol, so I thought this was
somewhat on topic.
That is the DARK side of computing, Real computers are found in the
BATCAVE and can even run ALGOL 58. (batman 1967) :)
http://www.starringthecomputer.co
On 2025-01-15 5:17 p.m., David Wise via cctalk wrote:
Pretty sure it does stop, if it runs out of addend and there’s no carry.
I think being dumb is the smart thing to do.
On 2025-01-14 6:29 a.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
Floppies were later used for data-entry (1973, 33FD for 3740). In those
days, data entry was for "mainframes". That was the "first" to use the
soft sectored format, which became the "standard". ("3740 SSSD format")
It held same data as 3
On 2025-01-13 9:33 p.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
FORTRAN was a dead end, both in syntax (line-oriented, line numbers) and
semantics (common blocks, static arrays, very poor string support).
Fortran 2025, the sixth edition, is rather different from 1956.
But, a real programmer can write
On 2025-01-13 6:55 p.m., Joseph S. Barrera III via cctalk wrote:
I would expect universal condemnation for anyone who would ask if FLACC
were designed for floppies.
Did mainframes ever have a floppy option?
Do any copies exist and what was the meduium?
On 2025-01-13 4:00 p.m., David Wade via cctalk wrote:
More like not enough actual memory. You can fit an acceptable basic into
a 4K ROM so it will work without a disk drive.
Its an interpreter so can do checks as you type it in.
Its far easier to learn than Algol.
8K ROM got you APL.
On 2025-01-13 3:10 p.m., Martin Bishop via cctalk wrote:
Ben
I shall simply comment that for a useless language it did a lot of good, signal
processing, work for me all but 50 years ago
I never said it was bad, just kept being delayed by politics.
As an example, you could define matrix
On 2025-01-13 12:18 p.m., Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:
I used AlgolW on MTS at UBC in ’78 as a CS undergrad.
Still have the textbook “FANGET AN - an algolw primer”, and my greenbar listings
(but threw out the box of batch cards some years go, lol).
I rather liked algol, the course work moved
On 2024-12-13 4:54 p.m., hupfadekroua via cctalk wrote:
Look at https://winworldpc.com/library/operating-systems
But the problem with privately operated sites could be, that they might vanish
at some point.
Andreas
And how is that different from a Commercial Site?
Geo-cities comes to mind.
Th
On 2024-12-10 6:42 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
Or, more importantly, are we all living in a VR?
What is reality?
On 12/10/2024 7:21 PM, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote:
Been waiting 45 years for the new IBM OS. Not holding my breath. :)
Ahhh...but are you sure we're all not already r
y one know the fine details of bit-banging a micro SD card, mostly
the reset sequence and where to sample or set CS_ , MSO , MSI and
clock. The boiler plate code is there, I just need Initialize data,
write 80 clocks, read byte, write byte routines, to reset the SD card.
Ben.
Another midnight snack a 1 AM.
What about porting the old share-ware window libraries for dos?
On 2024-12-04 12:14 p.m., Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk wrote:
On 2024-12-04 14:09, Tony Duell wrote:
On Wed, Dec 4, 2024 at 7:06 PM Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk
wrote:
[6809]
I agree. The user stack pointer was a killer feature.
I like(d) the progam counter relative addressing mode along with
On 2024-11-16 2:43 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
Think of how much better the state of the microprocessor would be IBM
had chosen the 68000 Linear Architecture rather than the 8086
Segment:Offset with separate I/O instructions and only 1 interrupt
architecture.
I don't mean to start a hug
of infrequent use...
If it works why change it?
Don't modern leds use a still glow after being turned off?
Ben.
PC world hasn't been the same since.
Happy computing,
Murray 🙂
2024 Ben has a new 18 bit computer design, using ATF1508 128 cell
CPLD's. Of course I need the latest PeeCee to program them.
https://store.rosco-m68k.com/products/little-atf-programmer
Of course when I get the low cost p
On 2024-11-03 9:37 p.m., Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 4:06 AM Mychaela Falconia via cctalk
wrote:
Paul Koning wrote:
1. Show a one-word PDP-11 program that writes all of memory, in reverse order.
MOV -(PC),-(PC)
Does that work on all models of PDP11?
I had an idea
On 2024-10-24 4:35 p.m., Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
And yet, Minix ran on the 8088.
NO the PC, and even then it was developed under a UNIX emulator.
Some where I read, wen ported to the PC it would randomly crash.
This was later found to a case of undocumented irq service routine
for m
On 2024-10-24 3:21 p.m., Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 1:45 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk
wrote:
The author, presumably a heavy Reddit, TikTok and Facebook user, seemed
to
have never heard about existence of computers before internet, nor about
On Thu, 24 Oct 2024, Jo
On 2024-10-24 11:49 a.m., Joseph S. Barrera III via cctalk wrote:
The author, presumably a heavy Reddit, TikTok and Facebook user, seemed to
have never heard about existence of computers before internet, nor about
Y'all are ignoring CompuServe and that is hurting my feelings :-)
Was all that
On 2024-10-23 8:36 p.m., Doug Jackson via cctalk wrote:
Yes, UUCP was literally a thing, but UNIX was unobtanium in the early
computing eral - The world of the University Minicomputer.
It certainly wasn't even vaguely accessible by a hobbyist running a
Z80 or 6800 in the late 70's.
I vividly re
On 2024-10-20 10:34 a.m., Donald Whittemore via cctalk wrote:
Finally got the program I had a friend write back in 2009 working. I had it
written specifically because I had this disk.
Shades of watching a 2311 working. 😀
http://www.myimagecollection.com/webpics/exercise.mp4
Now, let's do this
On 2024-10-12 7:40 p.m., Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
On 10/12/24 20:07, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
On 10/12/24 16:25, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
Didn’t all the IBM mainframes use 400hz? Maybe ask the IBMers how
they got 400hz.
Also, can the local power company supply it?
Oh, the IBM 7090 seri
On 2024-10-12 1:47 p.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 10/12/24 11:54, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:
I remember summer employment at a drive-in movie theater during my
summers working as a projectionist. Power supply for the DC carbon arc
lamps was supplied by a 40 Hp MG set located in i
On 2024-10-09 2:30 p.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
MSX is unknown in USA!
It was for Z80, and the disk format was MS-DOS
I saw some at comdex.
I waited for MSX machines to showup here, but it never happened,
although I did find [and buy] a Yamaha MSX machine from Waite Group, at
John Craig'
On 2024-10-09 4:08 a.m., Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
On Wed, 9 Oct 2024 at 04:37, ben via cctalk wrote:
Dos also has no subdirectories.
(?)
So did the hundreds of other 8 bit operating
systems.
(??)
The point here, was until hard disks with the PC became common you had
the tiny
h my DVD player?
I had it play once, hung and never worked since.
How many times have you got a product, but it never worked with your
system or it got discontinued? 3D movies are a good example,
I got a 3D projector and then found they no longer made 3D movies
in that format.
Since I wear glasse
uot; SSSD was not applicable. He said:
The disks are boot media and other materials relating to the RSRE Flex
operating system <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flex_machine> as
developed for PERQ workstations.
Why are we archiving now, 25 years ago was the deadline?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Ben.
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