Re: [ccp4bb] Do carbon scattering include hydrogen

2011-01-16 Thread Eleanor Dodson
Hmm - there are some hydrogens which are simply not fixable from chemistry, or electron density at low (ie <1.5A!) resolution - any of us who have looked in vain for them can testify to that - and I cant think that it is good to add in scatterers when you dont know where they are. The ones det

Re: [ccp4bb] Do carbon scattering include hydrogen

2011-01-10 Thread Pavel Afonine
HI James, Obviously, this depends a bit on which refinement program you use, and I am > not familiar with all of them. However, I have had some conversations with > Garib "refmac" Murshudov and Pavel "phenix.refine" Afonine about this, and > the shocking answer appears to be "no". > wow, I've g

Re: [ccp4bb] Do carbon scattering include hydrogen

2011-01-08 Thread James Holton
Thanks George! I didn't feel remotely qualified to describe how SHELX works, and that is why I didn't. On 1/7/2011 3:11 PM, George M. Sheldrick wrote: Dear James, I did once write a refinement program so I should try to answer your question. All hydrogen atoms attached to C and N in standard

Re: [ccp4bb] Do carbon scattering include hydrogen

2011-01-07 Thread George M. Sheldrick
Dear James, I did once write a refinement program so I should try to answer your question. All hydrogen atoms attached to C and N in standard proteins and almost all in DNSs and RNAs can be calculated geometrically with no ambiguities. This has been standard practice in SHELX for about 35 years

Re: [ccp4bb] Do carbon scattering include hydrogen

2011-01-07 Thread Nat Echols
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 10:49 AM, James Holton wrote: > But what about MolProbity? and all those neat inter-digitating hydrogens? > Should it not be possible for the refinement program to be "smarter" about > where it puts riding hydrogens? Well, that is always possible, but I don't > think MolP

Re: [ccp4bb] Do carbon scattering include hydrogen

2011-01-07 Thread James Holton
Obviously, this depends a bit on which refinement program you use, and I am not familiar with all of them. However, I have had some conversations with Garib "refmac" Murshudov and Pavel "phenix.refine" Afonine about this, and the shocking answer appears to be "no". Carbon has six electrons, e

Re: [ccp4bb] Do carbon scattering include hydrogen

2011-01-07 Thread Andrew T. Torelli
Hi Kenneth, There are recognized advantages to including riding hydrogens during refinement, even at low resolution. Others have written on this better than I could (the following link is a post to the CCP4bb from the archives): http://www.ysbl.york.ac.uk/ccp4bb/2002/msg01215.html -An