Re: [ccp4bb] AW: Another troublesome dataset (High Rfree after MR)

2017-10-16 Thread Phil Jeffrey
Rarely do I disagree with the wit and wisdom of James Holton, but R1 is not a property that Macromolecular World is unaware of. R1 is just Rwork. It's just R1 = Σ | |Fo| – |Fc| | / Σ |Fo| However e.g. George Sheldrick's SHELXL reports it based on a 4 sig(F) cutoff as well as on all data. Exam

Re: [ccp4bb] AW: Another troublesome dataset (High Rfree after MR)

2017-10-16 Thread Dale Tronrud
Discarding weak data was not the way macromolecular refinement was done prior to 1990. Discarding data to lower your R-value is a bad practice now and was a bad practice back then. It is my recollection that some people using X-plor adopted this practice, along with discarding all low resoluti

Re: [ccp4bb] AW: Another troublesome dataset (High Rfree after MR)

2017-10-16 Thread George Sheldrick
Dear James. What small molecule programs report often looks like: R1 = 0.1550 for 17413 Fo > 4sig(Fo) and 0.2058 for all 23715 data R1(Free) = 0.2208 for 1938 Fo > 4sig(Fo) and 0.2766 for all 2635 data from a well-known small molecule program being (mis)used to refine a protein. T

Re: [ccp4bb] AW: Another troublesome dataset (High Rfree after MR)

2017-10-16 Thread James Holton
If you suspect that weak data (such as all the spot-free hkls beyond your anisotropic resoluiton limits) are driving up your Rwork/Rfree, then a good sanity check is to compute "R1".  Most macromolecular crystallographers don't know what "R1" is, but it is not only commonplace but required in

[ccp4bb] AW: Another troublesome dataset (High Rfree after MR)

2017-10-16 Thread Herman . Schreuder
Dear Michael, Did you ask Phaser to check for all possible space groups? There are still I422 and I4 you did not mention. If the space group that came out of Phaser is different from the space group used for processing, subsequent refinement programs may use the wrong space group from the proce