Re: A niche for the Hurd

Hi, On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:35:48AM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > Is it possible to run only *parts* of the Hurd on separate computers, > that is, make the Hurd a kind of a network operating system. It most > probably sounds crazy, but I know that only a microkernel OS can do > something like

Re: Niche for Hurd - discussion - take my environment with me

Hi, On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 04:27:24PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Mittwoch 29 Oktober 2008 12:16:58 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > A precondition is that the same translators are available. This > > could be incovenient, but shouldn't be a serious problem, as the > > user can always

Re: A niche for the Hurd - next step: reality check

Hi, On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 04:46:14PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Mittwoch 29 Oktober 2008 12:16:58 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > I mentioned the desktop thing as one possible showcase. The problem > > here is that it is a task for many years... Would be nice to have > > some hurdi

Re: Niche for Hurd - discussion - lightweight virtualisation

Hi, On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 04:57:11PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Mittwoch 29 Oktober 2008 12:16:58 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > However, I dwelt on an interesting variation above: For *virtual* > > appliances the Hurd might be interesting -- using hurdish > > subenvironments inst

Re: Niche for Hurd - discussion - the power of translators

Hi, On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 05:43:48PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote: > Arne Babenhauserheide, le Wed 29 Oct 2008 17:35:16 +0100, a écrit : > > Transparent ftp out of the box would be a cool feature, too. > > Err, well we can already setup that automatically, it's just a matter of > > touch /ft

Re: Niche for Hurd - discussion - the power of translators

Hi, On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:01:52PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Somehow remounting readonly was also possible without hassle, but I no > longer remember how... You mean "fsysopts /foo -r" ? Not sure though how this is better than "mount -o remount,ro /foo"... (Except of course th

Re: Niche for Hurd - discussion - namespace based translator selection

Hi, On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 05:01:41PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Mittwoch 29 Oktober 2008 12:16:58 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > I fear though that such radical things have little chance in Debian -- > > so perhaps we actually need a custom distribution for that :-( > > They coul

Re: A niche for the Hurd - next step: reality check

Hi, On Sun, Nov 02, 2008 at 11:42:45AM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Mittwoch 29 Oktober 2008 12:16:58 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > About the only really unique feature I'm personally aware of besides of > > the ones already mentioned, is the ability to give a user's processes > > ne

Re: Niche for Hurd - discussion - the power of translators

Hi, On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 05:35:16PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Mittwoch 29 Oktober 2008 12:16:58 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > Well, regarding the specific examples, such things aren't very > > interesting anymore: With FUSE, this can all be done on Linux as > > well nowadays...

Re: A niche for the Hurd

Hi, On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 11:46:08AM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > @all: Why are YOU working on the Hurd? > > What is the niche the Hurd fills for you? I already said it more or less, but maybe it helps if I restate it more explicitely: The main reason I'm interested in the Hurd, i

Re: A niche for the Hurd - next step: reality check

Hi, On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 05:05:54PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Mittwoch 29 Oktober 2008 12:16:58 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > And when the development is done, the really hard part will begin: > > Pushing it to the "masses". > > Careful with that thought! I put it in quotat

Re: A niche for the Hurd - multi-core systems

Hi, On Sun, Nov 02, 2008 at 03:05:07PM +, Matthew Ayres wrote: > No doubt this shows my naivety, but why has GNU never built its own > replacement for Mach? Well, I'm not sure what you are asking exactly here. This question can be answered in several ways... First of all, you may not be awa

Re: A niche for the Hurd - next step: reality check

Hi, On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 04:00:49PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Mittwoch 29 Oktober 2008 12:16:58 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > I'll digest it in little pieces and answer directly... I actually already considered splitting it up myself :-) > > > Give back power to users: >

Re: status

Hi, On Sun, Nov 09, 2008 at 11:52:01AM +0100, Michael Banck wrote: > The Hurd project said it would move to L4, this project has failed and > people are still confused about this several years later. We should > learn from this and not make any announcements or predictions on how > or when the H

Re: Gentoo GNU/Hurd thread in Gentoo Forums

Hi, On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 04:54:47PM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > What I pursue with this question is whether a Gentoo GNU/Hurd would be > easier to maintain up-to-date with usual Gentoo repositories and > whether it would be possible to avoid situations like we are in at the > moment: some pa

Re: Niche for the Hurd - summary 2 - niches sorted according to necessary work

Hi, On Sun, Nov 02, 2008 at 02:33:05PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > The interesting part is, that I didn't find any unfeasible idea... Well, isn't that a bad sign in a brainstorm? Meaning we are too reserved, not unleashing our full creative potential etc.? ;-) > - Having a complete G

Re: Hurd

Hi, On Sat, Nov 01, 2008 at 12:58:55PM +1100, Russell Shaw wrote: > I want to do graphics card programming and need to figure out how to > access the pci registers. Depends on whether you want to do it from within the microkernel, or from user space. The microkernel uses a set of (ancient) Linu

Re: What shall the filter do to bottommost translators

Hi, On Sat, Nov 01, 2008 at 10:57:37PM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > When nsmux is asked to do a magic lookup, it creates a new mirror node > and sets the requested translator(s) on it. Well, let's be exact: It creates an new *shadow* node, i.e. a node that is visible only as the underlying node

Re: Gdb

Hi, On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 07:15:46PM +1100, Russell Shaw wrote: > I've been reading about GNU/Hurd. In linux, a driver for a graphics > card done in the kernel needs to be tediously debugged using printk() > and related because it's not running in user context. > > Would a graphics driver (that

(No) IRC meeting this week

Hi, I have to inform you that I won't be able to attend the meeting this friday. Hope to see you again next friday (2008-11-21), 19:00 UTC as usual. (Note that with DST switches having taken place in most parts of the world over the last couple of weeks, the local time this corresponds to has cha

Re: A niche for the Hurd - next step: reality check

Hi, On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:17:29PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > I am not familiar with the Hurd internals either. However, as I > understand the current design it uses the UNIX security model with > users and groups down to the very basic services. This is partially true: The Hurd primari

Re: A niche for the Hurd - next step: reality check

Hi, On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 06:27:55PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > And wouldn't this option of accessing a file in two ways be an ideal > candidate > for namespace based translator selection? > > An example: > > $ ls blah,,dir/ > $ nano blah,,xml Certainly :-) I wonder though wh

Re: A niche for the Hurd - next step: reality check

Hi, On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:59:19PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Donnerstag 13 November 2008 23:17:29 schrieb Michal Suchanek: > > However, this requires fundamental redesign of the current Hurd. [...] > While I think that this sounds interesting, it doesn't seem like a > viable wa

Re: Niche for Hurd - discussion - the power of translators

Hi, On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 07:33:52PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Mittwoch 12 November 2008 04:48:07 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > Anyways, just claiming that it can be done, doesn't help us. If we > > had a bunch of applications actually following these ideas, so > > people can se

Re: Niche for Hurd - discussion - the power of translators

Hi, On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:50:42PM +0100, Thomas Schwinge wrote: > But as soon as it's no longer in the CWD, wouldn't it be better to > leave out the colon and use `/ftp'? What Samuel said. > Some sort of killer feature for demonstrating it (even though not > really visible) was if apt-get

Re: A niche for the Hurd

Hi, On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 11:12:28PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > Since the brainstorming non-critique period is over I would like to > point out where the Hurd failed to fulfill some expectations for me. This doesn't at all fit the topic of this thread, which was about finding niches for t

Re: A niche for the Hurd - next step: reality check

Hi, On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 10:11:32AM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > 2008/10/29 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Perhaps the biggest difference is that on Linux, even with FUSE, > > users are limited to a fixed set of trusted filesystems provided by > > root. On the Hurd, a user can mount *any* filesy

Re: A niche for the Hurd - next step: reality check

Hi, On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 10:13:22PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Donnerstag 13 November 2008 21:13:52 schrieb Michal Suchanek: > > The shell would simply assign limited permissions to any process at > > startup, and should it want more it would have to ask me through the > > shell.

Re: A niche for the Hurd

Hi, On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 08:35:21PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Mittwoch 12 November 2008 05:14:02 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > This is actually not far off: In fact distributed systems were a (or > > even *the*?) major research focus of Mach -- Mach provides > > network-transpa

Re: Niche for Hurd - discussion - lightweight virtualisation

Hi, On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 07:57:36PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Samstag 08 November 2008 17:34:08 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > A virtual appliance is similar, only that the operating > > system+software is preinstalled in an image, and comes along with a > > virtualization solut

Re: Niche for the Hurd - summary 2 - niches sorted according to necessary work

Hi, On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 05:42:49PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > I think to make it *the* GNU system we'd need it in a state where I > can just start any desktop on it and work with it just like in a > GNU/Linux, because else people would just shrug and say "This is GNU > then, I thin

Re: What shall the filter do to bottommost translators

Hi, On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 10:33:51PM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 7:01 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sat, Nov 01, 2008 at 10:57:37PM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > > > Note that the only sensible use for a filter is placing it at the > > > bottom of the dynamic t

Microkernels (was: A niche for the Hurd - multi-core systems)

Hi, On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 12:39:30AM +, Zheng Da wrote: > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 1:18 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am quite curious: why did porting to the modern microkernels fail? Well, it's a long story, and I don't understand all the details myself. I'll try to give a very rough

Re: About merging the Hurd homepage and the Hurd wiki

Hi, On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 06:50:05PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > This helped me get the data, but I didn't manage to transfer my local > commit to origin/homepage (I read the man pages and they didn't really > help me). Read the tutorial -- the man pages won't be much help unless yo

Re: About merging the Hurd homepage and the Hurd wiki

Hi, On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 04:17:34PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > This could be due to padding (leaving space on the inside of the > object). > > But I remember similar pains from setting up my own pages, so I'm not > sure how to avoid it... You can always set the padding to 0, if

Re: About merging the Hurd homepage and the Hurd wiki

Hi, On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 03:38:56PM +0100, Thomas Schwinge wrote: > By now I know more about CSS than I ever wanted. I like CSS :-) (In fact, I like declarative languages in general...) > But still not enough: > > .newsitemcontent > { > /* TODO. Why is this needed to make th

Re: A niche for the Hurd - next step: reality check

Hi, On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 11:24:42PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > 2008/11/20 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:17:29PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > > Things are much more complicated in reality; but conceptually, UIDs > > on Hurd can be regarded more or less as directory

Re: Niche for Hurd - discussion - lightweight virtualisation

Hi, On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 02:10:29PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Sonntag 16 November 2008 23:10:09 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > Virtual appliances are about running software on your local machine > > -- only easing management by decoupling the software from the Host > > system, u

Re: A niche for the Hurd - next step: reality check

Hi, On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 02:00:16PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Dienstag 18 November 2008 04:16:04 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > It is important though to point out that I only intend to confine > > certain applications which are particularily exposed. > > Which for example cou

Re: Gentoo GNU/Hurd thread in Gentoo Forums

Hi, On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 09:25:58AM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > BTW, after some pondering, I came to the conclusion that translators > on NetBSD are not a very good sign for the Hurd community, because > almost all PR actions Arne Babenhauserheide is undertaking are based > on translators. I

Re: A niche for the Hurd - next step: reality check

Hi, On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 04:20:01PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > Well, you don't stop using knives because people can be threatened and > killed with them, do you? Please, don't start that discussion again, with all it's absurd comparisions about guns being good for shooting horses and wha

Re: About merging the Hurd homepage and the Hurd wiki

Hi, On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 01:39:43PM +0100, Thomas Schwinge wrote: > but I still need margin-top and margin-bottom in .newsitemcontent to > avoid the space at the top and bottom of a single news item. Why is > that? Again, this is the 's standard top and bottom margin. (As newsitemheader is n

Re: What shall the filter do to bottommost translators

Hi, On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 07:49:18PM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 10:27 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 10:33:51PM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > > > It seems to me that in this case the filter will have to be smart > > > enough to look through

Re: A niche for the Hurd - next step: reality check

Hi, On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:59:57PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > 2008/11/23 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > A short glance at history should convince you that inertia is the > > strongest ruling force by far in the computer industry. If you want > > to have *any* chance of people adapting somethi

Re: Gentoo GNU/Hurd thread in Gentoo Forums

Hi, On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 08:43:43PM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 10:25 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think Marek's work is interesting on several levels. For one, Mach > > was originally created by taking a BSD kernel, throwing out the UNIX > > stuff, and implem

Re: USB -- GPLv3 compatibility

Hi, On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 12:41:08AM +0100, Davi Leal wrote: > If you port a driver you should take into account the license such > driver use. IMHO the Hurd should go towards full GPLv3 compatibility. Currently the drivers live in GNU Mach, which is a dependency of the actual Hurd, but other

Security models (was: A niche for the Hurd - next step: reality check)

Hi, On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:56:10PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > 2008/11/25 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > The situation is really quite simple: A system designed to support > > use cases like DRM is unquestionably bad from a GNU viewpoint -- not > > only because it helps DRM specifically, but b

Re: master's thesis on hurd

Hi, On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 10:58:07PM +0100, Ruben Pollan wrote: > I'm student of computer engineering on spain. I'm about to finish my > degree (5 years of study). I have to do a master's thesis, I'm > interesting on hurd and I think will be a good idea do something about > hurd. > > I don't h

Re: another niche for the Hurd

Hi, On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 10:22:00PM +0100, Davi Leal wrote: > Proposal: Add to the list the below one, as a long term goal. > > * The possibility to get a kernel "GPLv3 or later" compatible. This is closely related to having a complete GNU system I would say -- both are likely to attract t

Re: Security models

Hi, On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 07:28:23PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Mittwoch 03 Dezember 2008 13:57:12 schrieb olafbuddenha...@gmx.net: > > When a process needs the service of another process which deals with > > resources it has no access to itself -- say a powerbox -- it doesn't > >

Re: Gentoo GNU/Hurd thread in Gentoo Forums

Hi, On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 09:07:48PM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:20 AM, wrote: > I mean, should we adopt the idea of taking a BSD kernel, throwing out > UNIX stuff, and implementing generic primitives as a possible roadmap. > Working in this direction we could possib

Re: What shall the filter do to bottommost translators

Hi, On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 06:49:12PM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:40 AM, wrote: > By proxying control ports do you mean creating shadow nodes containing > ports to the real control ports? Well, the terminology is totally wrong: We are not creating any *nodes* here. N

Re: looking for the solution of rootless subhurd

Hi, On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 12:30:08AM +, Da Zheng wrote: > The function add_tasks (proc/mgt.c) gets all tasks in the host by > calling host_processor_sets(), host_processor_set_priv() and > processor_set_tasks() because the process server needs to check if the > port is a task port or not.

Re: Niches for the Hurd: evaluation method; was: DRM musings, capabilities and stuff

Hi, It's a bit strange to answer here, as part of the discussion seems to have gone on off-list. Yet there are a few things in your mail that even lacking context I feel compelled to set straight... On Mon, Dec 08, 2008 at 02:19:34PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > 2008/12/8 Arne Babenhauserheide

Re: Niches for the Hurd: evaluation method; was: DRM musings, capabilities and stuff

Hi, On Mon, Dec 08, 2008 at 01:08:45AM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Freitag 05 Dezember 2008 12:40:32 schrieb Michal Suchanek: > > If you make the POSIX layer optional then you make a sytem based on > > capabilities, and that's what I wanted in the first place. That's > > not how the

Re: Niches for the Hurd: evaluation method; was: DRM musings, capabilities and stuff

Hi, On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 12:09:19PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > 2008/12/12 : > I see that the EROS or Coyotos as a whole does not fit the > requirements of a GNU system but I think reusing some basic parts is > no worse than using any other kernel. Well, if we don't use the constructor m

Re: Problems with stability of networking / pfinet

Hi, On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 11:13:04PM +0100, Thomas Schwinge wrote: > On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 10:06:54AM +0200, I wrote: > > For a few weeks now, I seem to notice more and more problems w.r.t. > > networking. Olaf confirmed this. Well, not exactly: While I can confirm that disabling syslog fix

Re: Security models

Hi, On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 07:30:53PM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Samstag 06 Dezember 2008 22:17:12 schrieb olafbuddenha...@gmx.net: > > So you have offlist discussions, have you? I feel left out ;-) > > The discussion stumbled offline since Michal accidently only answered > to me

Re: What shall the filter do to bottommost translators

Hi, On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 11:34:57PM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 9:28 AM, wrote: > I'll put my question differently: are we going to return the control > ports (that is, ports to filesystem) inside a instances of struct node > (provided libnetfs) as it happens in the c

Re: Niches for the Hurd: evaluation method; was: DRM musings, capabilities and stuff

Hi, On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 04:03:39PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > 2008/12/18 : > I find persistence and storage mechanism that works well with it quite > useful. Well, *we* don't find EROS-like persistence useful for our purpose. I never found it useful, as you might remember; and Marcus,

Re: looking for the solution of rootless subhurd

Hi, On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 03:55:26PM +, Da Zheng wrote: > olafbuddenha...@gmx.net wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 12:30:08AM +, Da Zheng wrote: >>> The function add_tasks (proc/mgt.c) gets all tasks in the host by >>> calling host_processor_sets(), host_processor_set_priv() and >>> pr

Re: What shall the filter do to bottommost translators

Hi, On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 07:19:50PM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 4:13 PM, wrote: > > On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 11:34:57PM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > > > I'll put my question differently: are we going to return the > > > control ports (that is, ports to filesystem) in

Re: Niches for the Hurd: evaluation method; was: DRM musings, capabilities and stuff

Hi, On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 12:19:26PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > 2008/12/22 : > > Well, *we* don't find EROS-like persistence useful for our purpose. > > I never found it useful, as you might remember; and Marcus, who was > > advocating it for a while, finally came to the very same conclus

Re: Niches for the Hurd: evaluation method; was: DRM musings, capabilities and stuff

Hi, On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 05:23:45PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > What do you mean by "designed for treachery" here? > > A particular feature is not treacherous by itself. What we are > speaking about here is memory protection. Is that treacherous? Not every kind of memory protection -- bu

Re: Niches for the Hurd: evaluation method; was: DRM musings, capabilities and stuff

Hi, On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:10:39PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > On 27/12/2008, olafbuddenha...@gmx.net > wrote: > > The user session is obviously not the parent of all processes -- > > that just wouldn't work in a multi-user system. But all processes > > *of the same user* are descenda

Re: looking for the solution of rootless subhurd

Hi, On Thu, Jan 01, 2009 at 09:11:16PM +, Zheng Da wrote: > On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 10:04 AM, wrote: > > Note that the implementation of the pseudo master host port does not > > need to forward the RPCs directly to Mach. (In fact, it can't even > > do that, as it lacks the necessary privileg

Re: What shall the filter do to bottommost translators

Hi, On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 02:42:21PM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 8:25 AM, wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 07:19:50PM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > > The most radical approach would be to actually start a new nsmux > > instance for each filesystem in the mirrored tr

Re: Niches for the Hurd: evaluation method; was: DRM musings, capabilities and stuff

Hi, On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 02:35:46PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > On 31/12/2008, olafbuddenha...@gmx.net > wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:10:39PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > If you want a POSIX system Coyotos is completely out of question. > > I would think that the kernel itse

Re: Moving to git

Hi, On Sun, Jan 04, 2009 at 12:05:07AM +0100, Thomas Schwinge wrote: > Only convert GNU Mach's gnumach-1-branch, GNU MIG's HEAD, GNU Hurd's > HEAD. > > With the exception of the GNU Mach Xen branch and the Hurd GSoC > branches, these are the only branches that see active development. So

Re: looking for the solution of rootless subhurd

Hi, On Sun, Jan 04, 2009 at 07:20:17PM +, Da Zheng wrote: > Zheng Da wrote: >> I just found there is the RPC proc_getallpids, so I can get all >> processes in the main hurd and then use pid2task to get their task >> port. I also found that pid2task only works for the tasks that belong >> to t

Re: Report in Swedish, English or both?

Hi, On Wed, Jan 07, 2009 at 10:38:48PM +0100, Carl Fredrik Hammar wrote: > As I was writing my previous mail, I suddenly realized something that > should of occured to me sooner. I've started a bit on the report for > my bachelor's thesis, mostly writing up an introduction. However > since I ba

Re: Improving object mobility within the Hurd

Hi, On Wed, Jan 07, 2009 at 10:24:33PM +0100, Carl Fredrik Hammar wrote: > I'll be starting my bachelor's thesis this semester and have decided > to pick up where I left off with libchannel. Great news :-) > I've been planning this for a while, but didn't announce it until now That's so wicked

Re: Niches for the Hurd: evaluation method; was: DRM musings, capabilities and stuff

Hi, On Fri, Jan 09, 2009 at 06:22:27PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > 2009/1/3 : > >> Yes, the system provides a service out of the box that provides DRM > >> memory which might be a step towards DRM content protection. I do > >> not like the feature but I have not seen a secure system design >

Re: Moving to git

Hi, On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 12:50:58PM +0100, Thomas Schwinge wrote: > On Fri, Jan 09, 2009 at 09:38:20AM +0100, olafbuddenha...@gmx.net > wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 04, 2009 at 12:05:07AM +0100, Thomas Schwinge wrote: > The old CVS repositories will of course remain available for history > inspectio

Splitting the Hurd tree

Hi, On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 12:50:58PM +0100, Thomas Schwinge wrote: > On Fri, Jan 09, 2009 at 09:38:20AM +0100, olafbuddenha...@gmx.net > wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 04, 2009 at 12:05:07AM +0100, Thomas Schwinge wrote: > > > Rationale: split as far as it's still making sense. There is > > >

Re: a design flaw when associating a user to a process?

Hi, On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:12:13AM +, Da Zheng wrote: > olafbuddenha...@gmx.net wrote: >> Are you saying that if a task fails to register itself with the proc >> server, it can not be associated with any user, i.e. only root can >> kill the task? That would be a serious security problem f

Merging branches (was: Moving to git)

On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 12:41:45PM +0100, Thomas Schwinge wrote: > Do you think it is worthwhile to preserve your individual commits? Note that this is something to be decided by the maintainers accepting the changes, not the developer who created them... Though admittedly in this case there is n

Re: looking for the solution of rootless subhurd

Hi, On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 08:29:02PM +, Da Zheng wrote: > I just found that there are two RPCs that can change the kernel ports > of tasks and threads: thread_set_kernel_port and > task_set_kernel_port. Mach does provide an easy way to override these > two ports:-) That's great news :-)

Re: Moving to git

Hi, On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 01:41:39PM +0100, Thomas Schwinge wrote: > That libpthread should be split of (before doing the conversion) is OK > for everyone? No, better do it afterwards. I allows us to postpone the decision whether to preserve full history or not: On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 12:50:

Re: Improving object mobility within the Hurd

Hi, On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 06:56:15PM +0100, Carl Fredrik Hammar wrote: > On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 08:50:28AM +0100, olafbuddenha...@gmx.net > wrote: > > > I've split the project into three main parts: improving authority > > > verification, improving code transfer and an object system that > > >

Re: looking for the solution of rootless subhurd

Hi, On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 01:38:11AM +, Zheng Da wrote: > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:03 AM, wrote: > > Indeed, while the primary goal is running subhurd as normal user, it > > is evidently a desirable variation to have a completely isolated > > subhurd. [...] > I don't really accept this o

Re: Niches for the Hurd: evaluation method; was: DRM musings, capabilities and stuff

Hi, On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 01:44:59PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > 2009/1/13 : > > On Fri, Jan 09, 2009 at 06:22:27PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > > I'm not saying it is impossible to do for a really dedicated person. > > But surely you don't want to claim that this is equivalent in > > p

Re: Improving object mobility within the Hurd

Hi, On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 10:54:53AM +0100, Carl Fredrik Hammar wrote: > On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 01:11:09PM +0100, olafbuddenha...@gmx.net > wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 06:56:15PM +0100, Carl Fredrik Hammar wrote: > I actually think we agree on what an object is: a bundle of state and >

Re: What shall the filter do to bottommost translators

Hi, On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:55:05PM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 9:01 AM, wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 02:42:21PM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > > > On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 8:25 AM, wrote: > > > > The most radical approach would be to actually start a new nsmux

Re: the virtual device management in eth-multiplexer

Hi, On Sun, Feb 01, 2009 at 02:20:41AM +, Da Zheng wrote: > In the current implementation, the device and the node associated to > it are created when file_name_lookup() is called. when the last > client closes the virtual device, the device is destroyed along with > the node. > > However,

Re: the virtual device management in eth-multiplexer

Hi, On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 08:50:39PM +, Da Zheng wrote: > olafbuddenha...@gmx.net wrote: >> The node should go away when it no longer has any users. When pfinet >> (or some other real user) uses a device, it will probably discard the >> port to the FS node (resulting from file_name_lookup()

Re: What shall the filter do to bottommost translators

Hi, On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 09:46:30PM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 9:19 AM, wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:55:05PM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > >> On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 9:01 AM, wrote: > > For each translator in the original tree, we get one nsmux instance. >

Re: xinit unable to connect to X server

Hi, On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 02:25:31PM -0500, Nathan Gray wrote: > I believe I am experiencing the same problem as is outlined in this > thread: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-h...@lists.debian.org/msg19397.html Oh, I hadn't realized there was already a thread about this once... In a

Re: Niches for the Hurd: evaluation method; was: DRM musings, capabilities and stuff

Hi, On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:46:38PM +0100, Michal Suchanek wrote: > On 23/01/2009, olafbuddenha...@gmx.net > wrote: > > Design and feasible use cases are *not* orthogonal in practice. > > They are certainly not. I never said they are. You did imply it, by repeatedly claiming that all we wan

Re: the virtual device management in eth-multiplexer

Hi, On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 01:19:06PM +, Zheng Da wrote: > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 8:33 PM, wrote: > but again, if nodes are created automatically, there will be some > strange behavior from the filesystem's point of view. for example, > "ls" can create an transitory node, or a user can cre

Re: the virtual device management in eth-multiplexer

Hi, On Sun, Feb 08, 2009 at 09:48:47PM +0100, olafbuddenha...@gmx.net wrote: > On Sun, Feb 01, 2009 at 02:20:41AM +, Da Zheng wrote: > > so maybe it is better to give up the idea that the directory where > > eth-multiplexer sits is the place to show the status of devices and > > allow the cli

Re: Filter design for nsmux

Hi, On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 08:56:50PM +0200, Sergiu Ivanov wrote: > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 10:01 PM, wrote: > > As I already pointed out, sooner or later we will problably need > > some framework to conflate simimlar translator instances in a single > > process -- while dynamic translators ar

Re: Downloads of the Hurd image - damn many of them

Hi, On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 08:35:34AM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > I thought it might interest you that the Hurd image on my server was > downloaded more than 2000 times last month. Interesting -- I wonder where these come from :-) > Besides: Is anyone already working on an applicat

Re: the virtual device management in eth-multiplexer

Hi, On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 04:10:13PM +, Zheng Da wrote: > On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 2:23 AM, wrote: > > Can you make it to the meeting this friday? (It is rather urgent, as > > I'm considering making a GSoC task out of it...) > > > I think it will be OK. Let's meet at 7:00pm this Friday. By

Re: Google Summer of Code 2009

Hi, On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 12:52:04PM +0100, Thomas Schwinge wrote: > I do know that Olaf likes to use them, but what about making these > texts more formally appealing and remove all (or most of) the smileys? I can only repeat my petition to disable this idiotic image replacement -- it indeed

(no) meeting this friday

Hi, Before I forget again: I'm away this weekend, and won't be able to make it to the meeting this Friday. The following week we will have a meeting as usual, though it might start getting a bit crowded, if we get accepted for GSoC again :-) -antrik-

Re: Moving to git

Hi, On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 06:11:07PM +0100, Thomas Schwinge wrote: > And I'm seeing the same (I think) problems: converting gnumach with > git-cvsimport will yield an unusable gnumach-1-branch -- on which you > would still find all the oskit files that are not present in the CVS > branch. [...]

Re: Google Summer of Code 2009

Hi, On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 09:20:00AM +0100, olafbuddenha...@gmx.net wrote: > I believe the friendly smileys to have an important psychological > effect: they have the express purpose of making the text less formal and > thus intimidating. Of course any other suggestion for making the texts les

Re: Hurd contribution in GNU Mach Code Cleanup

Hi, On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 12:12:43PM -0400, f...@gnu.org wrote: > We are 2 friends who are interested in contributing to the "GNU Mach > Code Cleanup", found in > http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/community/gsoc/project_ideas.html. > We'd like to do it for both GSOC and voluntarily afterwards, b

Re: Allow Using unionfs Early at Boot

Hi, > Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 19:11:24 +0200 From: "Michael M. Behman" > > I wanted to subscribe to GNU/Hurd in GSOC2009, so I had some questions > about the "Allow Using unionfs Early at Boot > " > project. Unfortu

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