just one quick
calculation, where not bothering with a separate app would be quite
nice. Then again, I do of course see the issue of duplicated
functionality with diverging interfaces.
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On 11/20/2011 10:57 PM, frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote:
I'd love to see a special pie menu unfold, when a mouse drag is held
above a launcher button, dwelling.
How would that coexist with the ability to reorder Launcher items via
drag-and-drop?
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that users who don't need that explanation will trigger
it, when they have to interact with something that happens to be in the
notification spot. The faded-out notifications might barely manage to be
tolerable in such a situation, but an explanation popping up won't be.
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nt screen
size.
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Which would require dependency
management, pre-/post-conditions.
Collections of changes should be exportable, as a kind of portable
modifications, Software packages could be expressed within this system.
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el.
While it works on the window, not the application level, Super-W might
serve your needs (Super also known as Windows key).
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. Not
acceptable at all.
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ift of almost the entire screen, while still
not being able to just throw the mouse to hit an icon in minimum time.
It really does come down to that the Launcher and often used target
areas in application windows should not share a screen edge.
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it may
be painful, layout-wise, to avoid an entire edge.
* To be clear, I do not recommend to get rid of the Launcher hiding
behavior, as screen space is too precious for that on anything but very
large displays (perhaps).
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ww.billbuxton.com/MMExpert.html
Autodesk did some work on multi-touch marking menus:
http://www.autodeskresearch.com/publications/multitouchmm
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/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/11-1-500x375.jpg)
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iated with the sets. But to not run into
trouble here, a size and position could be properties of windows. The
manual layout mode would use those, but tiling layout modes would ignore
them.
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iplied, desktop-windows
could take the roles of Activities. Like having a minimalist
file-and-widget manager window with wallpaper in each set.
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lecting several sets via shift-clicks.
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selected set is admittedly a little complex of a story :)
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ually
differentiated from static dividers over their entire area, not just
marked in the middle, I think. Though the context of their occurrence
does help in any case.
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_
m site,
think it's worth their time and have no problem to use the site.
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, not
Ubuntu developers (to just skip over entirely OS-independent).
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tions and given that rather large text
size, the bottom 2 are unpleasant to look at.
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color, if you don't
restrict the background more tightly.
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oring other means of closing a window, assuming that for a
majority of users, shortcuts for that are virtually non-existent.)
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jority of users.
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his list to dig through a 120 comment thread, but you
can't be bothered to even link them directly, even less repeat them here?
Let's see, up to 431 subscribers wading through a trainwreck of comment
thread vs one Ed Lin taking the time to present his case in a clear
fashion ...
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ler.
The perception is not limited to a first look. It includes what happens
during interaction. In this sense, hiding something only to reveal it at
some point does not make anything simpler.
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sible about this?
To Sorin: you only assume people do understand each other here. A lot
has been said that doesn't withstand even a little analysis and given
the terribly high noise level, it would be great if we could try to be
more careful, concise and exact.
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On 06/09/2011 08:22 PM, GonzO wrote:
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 2:18 AM, Thorsten Wilms wrote:
On 06/09/2011 03:02 AM, GonzO wrote:
Regarding "intuitive": https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg01963.html
Talk about a post that misses the point of the word.
"Intuitive,"
urse could be improved here. I'm
sure being more careful and informed about our terminology is a requirement.
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n%20Image.jpg
and
http://composite-bow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/hungarian_composite_bow20.jpg
right?
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In case it actually doesn't, it should. The user should not have to care
at all, until they can benefit from this functionality, and even then
the interaction should be as minimal as possible.
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om
it. My experience there matches observations and self-reports from others.
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n't
eliminate it. Especially not for shortcuts outside of a limited set of
the most frequently used. Like I said, the required focused thought
causes a blind-spot regarding time perception.
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est thing
you could do is throw out your mouse and learn the keyboard controls.
You can fool yourself regarding the efficiency of keyboard shortcuts
easily. You may have to think, recall shortcuts, which throws off your
sense of time. So it depends on training effects and what the
alternati
g.com/columns/022DesignedToGiveFitts.html
The most enlightening article about it that I'm aware of is "Visualizing
Fitts's Law:
http://particletree.com/features/visualizing-fittss-law/
Please read it, if you have the slightest doubt about the implications
of Fitts's
is a bigger mental steps than doing so with menus
inside app windows. Hiding menus until the mouse is in the panel turns
menus into something to discover, while before, they have been obvious.
Not to claim that there are no advantages to Unity's current ways,
obviously it's a question
screen edge helps, not so
much back from the menu to the content area. This again should only make
a noticeable difference for windows that have their top in noteworthy
distance from the top panel.
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but several.
It would be an interesting _experiment_ to render non-maximized windows
sans menus, and have the menu slide in inside a window, once it gets and
for as long as it has focus. Or to avoid movement, switch between titles
and menus in the titlebars.
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decision.
One could even consider to style the bottom area of a dialog like a
title bar, as the most common commands there will Close the window.
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fting breaks muscle memory. But you could just reserve the space
needed for the window buttons, leaving it empty, if a non-maximized
window is focused.
For the sake of completeness: Or treat the window buttons as part of the
menu in all cases, always as first elements even before "File".
ows raised to the max, on observing my use of
shortcuts and quickly OK-ing dialogs with Enter ...).
Oh, and don't forget touch-screen interfaces.
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focus the window, or will it count as click on the widget, too?
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ows "blind" use.)
Furthermore, nested menus may well be the worst common GUI widgets have
to offer (even with some tricks to ease selection of sub-menu items, it
still tends to be frustrating).
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On 03/16/2011 02:59 PM, Lee Hyde wrote:
On 16/03/11 13:01, Thorsten Wilms wrote:
If you are not under too tight constraints, the questionshouldn't be
how something is being done, not even how users would like to do it, but
rather: how should they do it?
I thoroughly disagree with
On 03/16/2011 02:21 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
On Wednesday, March 16, 2011 09:01:59 am Thorsten Wilms wrote:
Sometimes the problem may be certain users stubbornness rather than
anything else, especially if you design for the long term. So the answer
may have to be wrapped up in a strategy to
ometimes the problem may be certain users stubbornness rather than
anything else, especially if you design for the long term. So the answer
may have to be wrapped up in a strategy to "sell" it.
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portant that the
menu always starts in the same spot from the left (assuming LTR reading
direction). To guarantee that, without using an offset from the left
that will always be too small or too large, the title would have to be
right-aligned to the right side of the window or panel. But
c
e. What has been achieved
so far?
Something in closing, to think about. There are several variations and
it's attributed to varying people, but:
"I would have written a shorter letter but didn't have time."
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t mean you have to use alt-tab (or similar)
in combination to get out of some unfortunate situations.
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some purpose flooded with
lots of talk that is not in any way actionable or on a path to get
there ... with one sender of such mails sticking out of the mass by
frequency and quantity.
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feel bad about this wiki situation, but I had to give up on
organizing /Ayatana and /Artwork, as it eats too much time and returns
so little.
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it is about. And close the then entirely useless artwork list.
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difier-clicks are candidates for a
jump-to-this-point behavior.
All this can be found in the fader design in Ardour.
It's mainly about an additional concept, but some examples of how such
sliders could look like can be found at:
http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/fan-sliders/
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ccessed, informing the user that networking is turned off and offering
to turn it back on.
One could argue for instructions for the user to turn it on in always
the exact same place, or the right-at-the-moment convenience of an
integrated turn-it-on button. Perhaps both should be combined.
from being necessary within my reasoning, as one
would hope other means of window management are good enough. But they do
show what will be affected by Mute and pause all.
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On Wed, 2010-08-04 at 05:51 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/446
Have a look 2 mockups, thoughts and explanation at:
http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/08/05/ayatana-sound-menu/
(To Mark: sorry for the unnecessary copy!)
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applications (or modules) define their
commands and options in a more abstract way. With enough weighting and
relational information that a framework can build menus or ribbons or
whatever else might come up.
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; But I'm not entirely sure on this one.
I think this does quite a lot for clearing up the purpose of that field.
But if you just look at that without prior/external knowledge, you still
would have to ask: Say where? To whom?
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:}
If you are worried about a hodge-podge of ideas not working well
together, documented goals and assumptions should help.
> What can we learn from Mozilla's efforts in this arena?
Doing design challenges could be worth it.
http://design-challenge.mozillalabs.com/
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about
bundling addresses belonging to a single person. Hmm, there's also the
question of how to model organizations, where you might have addresses
that do not map to persons.
Call it Groups if it's about collecting addresses in a mailing list or
newslett
ease notes.
Perhaps by using a windicator.
Currently the closest thing would be the "About" item in "Help" menus. I
have been wondering if that should be ripped out of applications, to
instead have a centralized means of accessing the same (and more)
information.
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link between people. Perhaps if any of you have some good ideas you
> could share them with us.
I think friends/friendship is just inappropriate.
How about:
* Partners
* Confidants
* Verified Contacts
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on of the basic idea has to be the
Bundles of MacOS X.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_Bundle
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t task is to find on organization that helps to cover everything
and avoids overlap. Of course it does make sense to have several angles,
that sometimes just have to lead to the same thing. Maybe it can't be a
tree, but must become a Venn diagram or even a graph :)
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ons.
A potential contributor should be enabled to get there,
* specify their skills and interests,
* see peers with similar profiles,
* get a list of briefings and tasks that match,
* see what is being worked on.
...
None of that should ever include having to deal with wiki markup,
feeling li
such documentation,
we risk to forget many ideas and lack of a good way to compare concepts.
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sure.
I said premature. As in: too early. Because there has been no
discussion, apparently little to no research, no consensus, no
actionable items.
Turning "premature" into "a step backwards" is an unacceptable thing to
do in a discussion.
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surprised if "Send to ..." became something completely
different in Lucid.
In any case, having a blueprint is premature.
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tton up and down and drag
threshold.
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. You usually see drag handles on things that allow resizing or
moving them, but that do not have drop targets. Just drag, no drop.
This leads me to: how about graying out everything that is not a drop
target (or highlighting everything that is a drop target), after a short
delay?
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hing fundamentally wrong about the
> Windicators, if so, please enlighten me ^^.
The Windicators should be about state, not actions. They can have menus,
but the root is state.
So "sync to somewhere" can't be a windicator, but "is this synced to
somewhere / progress&quo
now the "ooh, shouldn't have clicked play on that video
quite yet" situation ;)
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ki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/Windicators/DanielsWindicators
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Maverick/daniel_windicators
redirects there, it shall be deleted in a few days or so (everyone feel
free to do that or remind me).
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on the Artwork list ;)
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how to do
> incremental backups of monolithic databases so my current email database
> eats through my hard drive space every time I perform a backup.
The filesystem and related infrastructure should be enabled to handle
email directly. One email, one file. I think BeOS did that.
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using
Lift/Scala, Nitrogen/Erlang or Seaside/Smalltalk? ;)
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Uns
oes in response.
Gestures could include simple clicks and keyboard input, but also
multi-touch gestures and even Emacs-style sequences.
For all GTK+ apps would be a nice start, but cross-toolkit would be even
better.
I wrote more about that back in 2007:
http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2007/04/10/
't
that much to explore. Maybe list cases where a user would want to select
multiple files? Continuous vs random selections. Can you think of cases
where differing needs would arise?
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directly, let's just try to not turn that page into a
discussion board.
Especially: please add mockups.
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re learning' isn't helpful -
> there will be learning, but I don't mind the use of 'intuitive'.
Do you want your language to be a blurry mess or a sharp tool?
Those who work in a field will use other terms or some of the same terms
differently from the wider populace, beca
s of an application by seeing it and using it." He continues,
however, "But even that is a less than useful goal since only 25 percent
of the population depends on intuition to perceive anything."
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e avoided, banned even, from
further discussion. It's a symptom of a lack of understanding in this
field.
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would like to
suggest to just stop. Add something new, or remain silent, please.
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ury. The majority of users do not. So we should
> not design for the small majority but the larger majority.
The majority of users is in a constant risk to develop RSI.
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to single
> clicking is going to make other functions impossible, not easier. my
> point was simple that it creates many other problems that would have
> to be thought through, we can't just switch it and think we're good to
> go.
What becomes impossible?
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mmon action (if opening is not the
most common action on files or folders, I would suggest something is
going wrong).
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idiculously arduous once you got used to single
clicking.
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Uns
urrent state (without history) with
another user. Basically adding meta-data to the history.
Of course there would have to be some history flattening scheme.
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eme,
where you define the rules for a set, to then create
exceptions/changes/additions on lower levels.
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ften because of it, but I think
most windows are used with maybe 2 sizes, maximized and one smaller that
happens to be convenient, given the specific content and typical
context.
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t 10
tracks, where you can select one of them to jump there.
Disclaimer: I currently don't use Rhythmbox or any other player with
panel icon / indicator menu and have no clue how that looks like now.
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7;s the
right answer to the click-through-or-not question caused by it?
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or switching between single windows,
they only shine when it's about switching between _sets_ of windows.
There are 2 ways to approach this regarding the underlying concept:
either you have several desktops with windows on them, or you have one
desktop and you show/hide groups of wind
es are that it's a comparatively large button
instead of an icon, and that the placement will change depending on
other windows on every workspace.
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_
ick on the icon
could be offered as shortcut for this? That could be one of those things
you have to know about, but that are great if you do.
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27;t be used if something is not
in an all-OK state, I think.
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Un
w title to have one
row could be worthwhile.
Plus the menu and toolbar should be able to be in one row.
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ll other windows when shift is
> released.
> * Clicking the "other" button shows a menu with all of the actions
> above, with shapes that demonstrate the associated gestures.
Funny, I have just been thinking about something kinda similar, using
marking menus:
http://
ill an option there. It does work in Ardour.
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uts (make menu wider or draw
additional box).
To be mentioned just for completeness: fade in after a delay.
Another possibility would be to draw the shortcuts in another color with
less contrast.
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activation, to then proceed with no further delay. Or a click-drag, but
this would have to communicated somehow.
There could be a 1 item sub-menu for the real command, but this could be
a bit hard on motor skill.
Or all the account/power commands could be in a radial men
on of the future should be documented
(public), then ;)
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