On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 23:10, erik quanstrom wrote:
>> > I expect to see code immediately, by the way, finished or not, and you
>> > better be
>> > around to answer my questions.
>>
>> You have something here: these are central software-development tenets
>> of agile/scrum/xp/lean/kanban du jour,
This conversation reminded me that I have been
meaning to clean up a program I wrote a while back
and integrate it into plan9port. It generates Plan 9
bitmap fonts on demand using the native window
system fonts. Right now it only works on OS X.
I would gladly accept X11 support and OS X bug fixes
> > I expect to see code immediately, by the way, finished or not, and you
> > better be
> > around to answer my questions.
>
> You have something here: these are central software-development tenets
> of agile/scrum/xp/lean/kanban du jour, and help the open-source
> community work. Essentially,
> Which vera font? I just looked up http://google.gr/ in Firefox & pasted the
> text into a terminal using Bitstream Vera Sans Mono & don't see any missing
> letters. Nor do I if I set the font to Bitstream Vera Sans or Serif, or
> Bitstream Charter
i don't recall. the date on the original con
On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 17:51:58 -0400
erik quanstrom wrote:
> i use the vera fonts in abaco (the fonts are also available
> for linux) but the coverage is very poor. π is the only
> greek letter available.
Which vera font? I just looked up http://google.gr/ in Firefox & pasted the
text into a term
FWIW, Inferno ships with 6[acl], it should port over to Plan 9 pretty easily...
-- vs
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 5:51 PM, erik quanstrom wrote:
>> Yes, but with all the work in Acme and Sam, I've become quite
>> accustomed to having ` look nice. It just makes the browser look out
>> of place. It's not just the tick either, I'd like the browser font to
>> generally look the same.
>
> tha
> I expect to see code immediately, by the way, finished or not, and you better
> be
> around to answer my questions.
You have something here: these are central software-development tenets
of agile/scrum/xp/lean/kanban du jour, and help the open-source
community work. Essentially, "done" is an e
> Yes, but with all the work in Acme and Sam, I've become quite
> accustomed to having ` look nice. It just makes the browser look out
> of place. It's not just the tick either, I'd like the browser font to
> generally look the same.
that's hard. i haven't found one yet that looks good in
both a
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 5:47 PM, erik quanstrom wrote:
>> > The enlightened use ' and " for all kinds of single and double quotes,
>> > because you can copy/paste them anywhere and everybody sees them
>> > properly. Also, few things in the world look worse than seeing a quote
>> > done ``like this''
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:44 PM, erik quanstrom wrote:
>> Speaking of that, is there a way to do the reverse, to get plan 9
>> Bigelow fonts that Linux can use? I'm sick of my browser not knowing
>> that the character left of the 1 on my keyboard is an open-quote.
>
> maybe this is your problem:
>
>
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:50 PM, John Floren wrote:
> Remember, only heathens use ` to begin a quote.
>
> The enlightened use ' and " for all kinds of single and double quotes,
> because you can copy/paste them anywhere and everybody sees them
> properly. Also, few things in the world look worse tha
> > The enlightened use ' and " for all kinds of single and double quotes,
> > because you can copy/paste them anywhere and everybody sees them
> > properly. Also, few things in the world look worse than seeing a quote
> > done ``like this'' in a monospace font.
> >
>
> Pff, I'm not a heather, I'm
In light of Erik's response ``maybe you just don't know about them.'' I looked.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/sof/1243139762.html
Recent (posted 6/27). Looks like it's Plan 9 (probably Inferno) on a
smartphone. Thought it would be useful to post here in case anybody
else is looking for that kin
We all know that Uriel periodically `whines' on this list. Let's
please not exacerbate the situation?
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Uriel wrote:
> There are such people out there, they just think that keeping ultra
> paranoid secrecy and perpetuating the perception that Plan 9 is a
> commercial dead end is somehow a good idea (yea, people are fucking
> nuts, but hey, I guess you have to be fuckin
>
> Another person in Plan 9 has been working on an AML interpreter that
> presents the ADT in a filesystem (at least, that was what I envisioned
> and explained to him). I believe he has also contacted you regarding
> some USB ethernet device, so perhaps you two will want to work
> together to som
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 1:15 PM, J. R. Mauro wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 8, 2009, at 16:05, Josh Wood wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jul 8, 2009, at 12:00 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
>>>
>>> Does
>>> anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
>>> on subfonts would be great, info on TTF woul
2009/7/8 Francisco J Ballesteros :
>>
>> ACPI will never, ever, ever happen, so people better get over it (and
>> if anyone is naive enough to waste their time trying, it will end up
>> as a useless atrocious mess that wont boot even in a 100th of the
>> systems out there, much less suspend or do a
Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Uriel wrote:
> There are such people out there, they just think that keeping ultra
> paranoid secrecy and perpetuating the perception that Plan 9 is a
> commercial dead end is somehow a good idea (yea, people are
>
> ACPI will never, ever, ever happen, so people better get over it (and
> if anyone is naive enough to waste their time trying, it will end up
> as a useless atrocious mess that wont boot even in a 100th of the
> systems out there, much less suspend or do anything useful).
>
I've been wasting t
>Before my signature, I'd really like to reiterate that I did not bring
>up amd64 to open a can of worms.
>
>-dho
I just thought I'd ask the question since it came up, as I've been wondering
also.
However, I don't think it needs to be a "can of worms" if we as a community
don't make it into one.
> Speaking of that, is there a way to do the reverse, to get plan 9
> Bigelow fonts that Linux can use? I'm sick of my browser not knowing
> that the character left of the 1 on my keyboard is an open-quote.
maybe this is your problem:
; unicode '`'
0060
; look 0060 /lib/unicode
0060grave
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Uriel wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
>> 2009/7/8 Uriel :
>>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 6:56 PM, Devon H. O'Dell
>>> wrote:
I don't think so. We already have IPv6 support and it's not that bad.
Having more drivers and supported
2009/7/8 Benjamin Huntsman :
>>> Without this getting into a holy war, what Geoff told me was that the
>>> amd64 work was for headless CPU servers, which is only mildly useful
>>> to me anyway.
>>
>>If it was released perhaps somebody would add the missing drivers, who
>>knows...
>>
>>As things st
But how do you make them? I played with some TTF font generators about
10 years ago that I'm sure I illegally obtained somehow, but I realize
that I have zero idea of how fonts are designed and packaged. Does
anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
on subfonts would be
>> Without this getting into a holy war, what Geoff told me was that the
>> amd64 work was for headless CPU servers, which is only mildly useful
>> to me anyway.
>
>If it was released perhaps somebody would add the missing drivers, who knows...
>
>As things stand, we will never know.
Speaking of t
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
> 2009/7/8 Uriel :
>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
>>> ACPI support doesn't need to suspend or do thermal zones. It just
>>> needs to be able to read the ADT and get MP / interrupt routing table
>>> information. This i
> Fontforge is the way I know about, also, and will give you a process
> something like drawing your font, or even modifying one of the handful
> of 'open-source' fonts, like Inconsolata. There is a ttf2subf program
> (http://mirtchovski.com/p9/freetype/) that will, I think, convert the
> Fontforg
On Jul 8, 2009, at 16:05, Josh Wood wrote:
On Jul 8, 2009, at 12:00 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
Does
anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).
Fontforge is the way I know about, also, and will give
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Uriel wrote:
> As for amd64, it is already done, we are just not worthy to have access to it.
Ah! I knew there was a reason!
ron
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 12:30 PM, erik quanstrom wrote:
>> But don't underestimate the value of the interesting ideas in the
>> linux kernel that get the performance, e.g. RCU. I don't think there
>> are any OSes that have scaled to 4096 CPUs at this point besides
>> Linux.
>
> i thought that massiv
2009/7/8 Uriel :
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
>> ACPI support doesn't need to suspend or do thermal zones. It just
>> needs to be able to read the ADT and get MP / interrupt routing table
>> information. This is doable. Have you ever read any of the ACPI spec?
>> I have.
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
> 2009/7/8 Uriel :
>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 6:56 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
>>> I don't think so. We already have IPv6 support and it's not that bad.
>>> Having more drivers and supported commodity architectures would be a
>>> good thing. I'd
On Jul 8, 2009, at 12:00 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
Does
anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).
Fontforge is the way I know about, also, and will give you a process
something like drawing your font, or
2009/7/8 Uriel :
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 6:56 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
>> I don't think so. We already have IPv6 support and it's not that bad.
>> Having more drivers and supported commodity architectures would be a
>> good thing. I'd love to do this, but I don't think anybody's going to
>> matc
There are such people out there, they just think that keeping ultra
paranoid secrecy and perpetuating the perception that Plan 9 is a
commercial dead end is somehow a good idea (yea, people are fucking
nuts, but hey, I guess you have to be fucking nuts to use Plan 9, so
who can blame them.)
I have
On Jul 8, 2009, at 15:00, "Devon H. O'Dell"
wrote:
I have very little idea about these fuckers. I know there are
baselines and ideas about m's and n's and kerning and whatnot.
But how do you make them? I played with some TTF font generators about
10 years ago that I'm sure I illegally o
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 6:56 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
> I don't think so. We already have IPv6 support and it's not that bad.
> Having more drivers and supported commodity architectures would be a
> good thing. I'd love to do this, but I don't think anybody's going to
> match my salary to port dri
> But how do you make them? I played with some TTF font generators about
> 10 years ago that I'm sure I illegally obtained somehow, but I realize
> that I have zero idea of how fonts are designed and packaged. Does
> anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
> on subfonts
> 2009/7/8 erik quanstrom :
> >> I'd love to do this, but I don't think anybody's going to
> >> match my salary to port drivers, do ACPI, add amd64 support for
> >> workstations, etc.
> >
> > i told myself this for years. it turns out to be a mistaken
> > idea. now that i know, i regret the years
2009/7/8 erik quanstrom :
>> I'd love to do this, but I don't think anybody's going to
>> match my salary to port drivers, do ACPI, add amd64 support for
>> workstations, etc.
>
> i told myself this for years. it turns out to be a mistaken
> idea. now that i know, i regret the years i spent doing
2009/7/8 erik quanstrom :
>> But don't underestimate the value of the interesting ideas in the
>> linux kernel that get the performance, e.g. RCU. I don't think there
>> are any OSes that have scaled to 4096 CPUs at this point besides
>> Linux.
>
> i thought that massively parallel harvard-arch mac
> I'd love to do this, but I don't think anybody's going to
> match my salary to port drivers, do ACPI, add amd64 support for
> workstations, etc.
i told myself this for years. it turns out to be a mistaken
idea. now that i know, i regret the years i spent doing
other things.
- erik
> But don't underestimate the value of the interesting ideas in the
> linux kernel that get the performance, e.g. RCU. I don't think there
> are any OSes that have scaled to 4096 CPUs at this point besides
> Linux.
i thought that massively parallel harvard-arch machines had
generally fallen out of
I think I'll start all of my work correspondence with this sentence. ;-).
-joe
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Joseph Stewart wrote:
> I can't help at all, but the first sentence made me shoot soda out my
> nose laughing.
>
> -joe
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
>> I ha
I can't help at all, but the first sentence made me shoot soda out my
nose laughing.
-joe
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
> I have very little idea about these fuckers. I know there are
> baselines and ideas about m's and n's and kerning and whatnot.
>
> But how do you make
I have very little idea about these fuckers. I know there are
baselines and ideas about m's and n's and kerning and whatnot.
But how do you make them? I played with some TTF font generators about
10 years ago that I'm sure I illegally obtained somehow, but I realize
that I have zero idea of how fo
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Dan Cross wrote:
> I think his lane is that Linux is complex, bloated, poorly designed,
> etc and that FreeBSD would have been a better choice. I have to agree
> with that
well, if they come through on their promise of open source, you might
get to prove your
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 12:27 PM, erik quanstrom wrote:
> you say
>
>> I think, Google did not choose Plan 9 due lack of device drivers, poor
>> IPv6 support and confusing redundant fragment of code lurking around in
>> /sys/boot or 9load, but a compared with Linux a compact, clean and
>> much mor
2009/7/8 erik quanstrom :
> you say
>
>> I think, Google did not choose Plan 9 due lack of device drivers, poor
>> IPv6 support and confusing redundant fragment of code lurking around in
>> /sys/boot or 9load, but a compared with Linux a compact, clean and
>> much more efficient FreeBSD could def
you say
> I think, Google did not choose Plan 9 due lack of device drivers, poor
> IPv6 support and confusing redundant fragment of code lurking around in
> /sys/boot or 9load, but a compared with Linux a compact, clean and
> much more efficient FreeBSD could definitely have been a better choice
On 07/08/2009 02:21 PM, tlaro...@polynum.com wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 08, 2009 at 10:48:58AM +0300, Aharon Robbins wrote:
>> http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html
>>
>> 'nuff said. :-)
>
> Is it my english that is not sufficient ? [Note: it is written "Google
> Chrom
On 07/08/2009 02:37 PM, Richard Miller wrote:
>> So why all is always "Linux
>> based" ?
>
> Because linux has an army of volunteers hacking up drivers for
> everybody's weird undocumented ever-changing hardware.
>
>> "The software architecture is simple - Google Chrome running within a
>> new wi
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Rudolf Sykora wrote:
> But now (from the answers to my questions about boxes, tables) I am
> becoming less enthusiastic. Can anybody comment on this? Do you think
> that troff is really dead?
Like most things in life, the answer is an emphatic, "it depends."
Weigh
I assume you have a non-Plan 9 machine to play with.
It's worth trying Heirloom troff there to see if the boxes
are done better. They probably are. It would be a big
integration effort to fit the Heirloom troff changes into the
Plan 9 troff changes. Maybe it is worth it; maybe not.
I like Heirl
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 2:02 AM, Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote:
> > So why all is always "Linux
> > based" ?
>
> Because linux has an army of volunteers hacking up drivers for
> everybody's weird undocumented ever-changing hardware.
>
> > "The software architecture is simple - Google Ch
2009/7/8 Russ Cox :
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:49 AM, Rudolf Sykora wrote:
>> can anybody tell me why whatever .ps about troff/eqn I print has
>> misplaced lines?
>> E.g. quite generally, lines that make up tables either don't touch, or
>> stick out somewhere...
>
> this is because tbl is using cha
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:49 AM, Rudolf Sykora wrote:
> can anybody tell me why whatever .ps about troff/eqn I print has
> misplaced lines?
> E.g. quite generally, lines that make up tables either don't touch, or
> stick out somewhere...
this is because tbl is using characters to draw lines.
it's n
> > But if it is just for a terminal, there is a lot of drivers you don't
> > need. (Well, the video card is generally not the easier to correctly
> > drive...)
>
> Exactly. And wi-fi. And ethernet if it's a cheap broadcom chip.
> And sound if it's not usb. And bluetooth so you can use your pho
> can anybody tell me why whatever .ps about troff/eqn I print has
> misplaced lines?
> E.g. quite generally, lines that make up tables either don't touch, or
> stick out somewhere...
does it look bad with proof? if so, this is generally
because of font problems. i cribbed this from someone
and
> It says "linux kernel" with no mention of multi-gigabyes of linux
> libraries and commands. The optimistic interpretation is that they've
> rediscovered Ron's idea of borrowing a linux kernel as a minimal (sic)
> device driver layer to put a sensible OS on top of, and throwing
> everything else
Hello everyone,
can anybody tell me why whatever .ps about troff/eqn I print has
misplaced lines?
E.g. quite generally, lines that make up tables either don't touch, or
stick out somewhere...
Also, should
.BX something
make a nice box around 'something' or not? Anywhere I look I see the
top line
2009/7/8 Uriel :
> My evidence is familiarity with the garbage chrome depends on, you can
> expect Cairo, gtk/glib, dbus and the rest of the freedesktop.org
> 'standard' crap pile at the very least.
>
> And they will need to do flash somehow, so I would not be surprised if
> 'window system' in this
My evidence is familiarity with the garbage chrome depends on, you can
expect Cairo, gtk/glib, dbus and the rest of the freedesktop.org
'standard' crap pile at the very least.
And they will need to do flash somehow, so I would not be surprised if
'window system' in this context simply means 'windo
> You can be sure we wont be so lucky. A huge amount of gnu/gnome guck is
> assured.
Your evidence? "a new windowing system" doesn't sound like gnome to me.
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Richard Miller<9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote:
>> But if it is just for a terminal, there is a lot of drivers you don't
>> need. (Well, the video card is generally not the easier to correctly
>> drive...)
>
> Exactly. And wi-fi. And ethernet if it's a cheap broadcom ch
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Richard Miller<9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote:
>> "The software architecture is simple - Google Chrome running within a
>> new windowing system on top of a Linux kernel."
>
> It says "linux kernel" with no mention of multi-gigabyes of linux
> libraries and commands. The
> But if it is just for a terminal, there is a lot of drivers you don't
> need. (Well, the video card is generally not the easier to correctly
> drive...)
Exactly. And wi-fi. And ethernet if it's a cheap broadcom chip.
And sound if it's not usb. And bluetooth so you can use your phone
as a mode
2009/7/8 Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com>:
>> So why all is always "Linux
>> based" ?
>
> Because linux has an army of volunteers hacking up drivers for
> everybody's weird undocumented ever-changing hardware.
>
>> "The software architecture is simple - Google Chrome running within a
>> new wind
On Wed, Jul 08, 2009 at 10:02:59AM +0100, Richard Miller wrote:
> > So why all is always "Linux
> > based" ?
>
> Because linux has an army of volunteers hacking up drivers for
> everybody's weird undocumented ever-changing hardware.
But if it is just for a terminal, there is a lot of drivers you
> So why all is always "Linux
> based" ?
Because linux has an army of volunteers hacking up drivers for
everybody's weird undocumented ever-changing hardware.
> "The software architecture is simple - Google Chrome running within a
> new windowing system on top of a Linux kernel."
It says "linux
On Wed, Jul 08, 2009 at 10:48:58AM +0300, Aharon Robbins wrote:
> http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html
>
> 'nuff said. :-)
Is it my english that is not sufficient ? [Note: it is written "Google
Chrome" while I think it should be "Google Chrome OS"]
"The softwa
"The software architecture is simple — Google Chrome running within a
new windowing system on top of a Linux kernel."
although most of the technology news reports i've seen today appear not to have
read the googleblog (or at least, not that far into it).
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html
'nuff said. :-)
Arnold
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