RE: Keyboard remapping bug?
> Above, you say that Outlook sees the correct key-mapping - > is this with or without VNC present? Outlook through VNC works fine with the special keys. > It sounds to me as though Exceed is doing some > low-level hackery to get the keyboard input values. Undoubtably. X11 servers have to add their own level of remapping. Today I did a few new experiments and talked with other users. I connected from another NT box and saw the same problem. I connected in reverse from the problem box to another NT and things worked fine. Other people report having this problem intermittantly so I rebooted. The the problem is now gone. Should have done that first but I hate to boot remotely. Next time I will try just restarting the Exceed X11 server to give more isolation information. Thanks. > -Original Message- > From: James ''Wez'' Weatherall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 9:29 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Keyboard remapping bug? > > > > The numlock light is off. > > > > Again my configuration is: > > > > vncclient running on win98 > > vncserver running on NT 4. > > X11 server (Exceed) running on the NT box. > > xemacs running on a third box as a client on the NT X11 > server. (I just > > checked. xterm sees the same problem so it is not xemacs specific.) > > > > o - Outlook running on the NT box sees the expected > keymapping. I assume > > that other native applications do also. > > > > o - The keys are mapped properly if I type at the NT box directly. > > > > o - It is only when vnc comes into the picture that the > special keypad > goes > > wrong. > > Above, you say that Outlook sees the correct key-mapping - > is this with or > without VNC present? It sounds to me as though Exceed is doing some > low-level hackery to get the keyboard input values. > > Cheers, > > James "Wez" Weatherall > -- > "The path to enlightenment is /usr/bin/enlightenment" > Laboratory for Communications Engineering, Cambridge - Tel : 766513 > AT&T Labs Cambridge, UK - Tel : 343000 > - > To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list > to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html > - - To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html -
RE: VNC vs Radmin (was RE: VNC vs PC Anywhere)
I heard of radmin here a week ago. I downloaded it immediately and had problem after problem. It crashed once. Mostly it had update problems with exceed X11 server windows. I also saw long pauses. It seems to gather more data before doing very fast screen updates. The update is impressive but would be more impressive without the delays. Mouse tracking is very impressive but that shouldn't be hard. Not many bits there. I'm surprised VNC does so poorly with mouse tracking. They probably worry more about efficient use of bandwidth and less about turnaround latency. Mouse tracking is definitely worth special casing if only for the subjective impression of speed it gives. When I opened my faithful VNC window it definitely seemed clunky but it worked. I'll keep track of radmin and try new releases but it seems quite unstable for any but the most common configurations. The claim of 150x speed improvement is obviously bogus. We know how that is done. Find one tiny special case that one package optimizes exceptionally well that the other handles as a general case. Construct a test that loops over the tiny feature. Claim that the entire package is much faster. Such numbers are less valuable than nothing because they make you misstrust the source. > -Original Message- > From: Dewar Charles R [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 3:51 PM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: RE: VNC vs Radmin (was RE: VNC vs PC Anywhere) > > > Weird. Now, I don't install the video hook (got a problem > with stuff like > that), I just install the service. However, no one else I've > talked to about > Remote Admin has had the problem you are describing. Did it do this > consistently across all PC's? > > -Original Message- > From: Lee Douglas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 11:51 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: VNC vs Radmin (was RE: VNC vs PC Anywhere) > > > Charles, > > I downloaded the latest revision from their site just 2-3 > days ago. I'm > disappointed that I had problems with it, as it was faster > than vnc and > seemed to handle such things as file transfer very nicely, > among other > features. Unfortunately, it kept losing sync with the screen > on the server > PC and the cursor kept getting lost > > Lee > > At 11:22 AM 11/29/00 -0600, you wrote: > >Really?! Do you have 2.01. I've never noticed any stability > problems with > it > >loaded on 9x, NT, or W2K. Not only is Radmin faster, but it > has many more > >features and is easier to use. We still run VNC for alot of > situations, but > >I prefer Remote Admin. > > > >-Original Message- > >From: Lee Douglas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 12:49 PM > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: VNC vs Radmin (was RE: VNC vs PC Anywhere) > > > > > >I've been a long time user of pcAnywhere, more recently > bought LapLink 2000 > >and have tried out VNC and Radmin. All of this has been > between two WIN > >98SE computers running on a 10/100 BaseT ethernet network. > > > >The reason for all the struggles was that pcAnywhere was > both slow and a > >memory hog. LapLink is somewhat faster and seemed to use > less resources. > >VNC was a nice improvement on LapLink in terms of speed and > resource usage. > >I've recently tried Radmin and been very impressed with its > speed and sadly > >disappointed with its lack of stability. I've now > "scampered" back to VNC > >and plan to stay here. > > > >Thank you VNC people, wherever you may be! > > > >Lee > > > >BTW, Radmin was noticeably faster that all but VNC - in the > case of VNC, it > >was only slightly faster. > > > > > >At 01:54 PM 11/26/00 +, you wrote: > > >I used VNC for a while, when my coworker pointed me to > another program - > > >Radmin. > > > > > >I download it, install and what I see: > > > > > >It's faster than VNC on my 10 mbit network. Not sure > about 150 times > > >(There is a note on the Radmin website www.radmin.com , > that Radmin is > 150 > > >times faster than VNC) but definitely faster. > > >It has a lot of features, which I wanted to have in VNC. > > >There are Win NT security support, drag & drop file > transfer, 128 bit > data > > >encryption. > > > > > >The only problem which I have with this software is that > it expires after > > >one month, to continue I will need to pay $35 for two > computer license. > > >I think I'll purchase it because, it's good price for > speed, additional > > >features and lifetime tech support... > > > > > >In general, Radmin is my realized dream of how VNC must be. > > > > > > > > >Yours, Rick. > > > > > > > > ___ > >__ > > >Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : > >http://explorer.msn.com > > > >---
RE: remote printing
The last time I printed to a file using a Windows driver for a postscript printer I got a postscript file as a result. This was quite a few years ago but I would be surprised if it has changed since then. It is already possible under Windows to print to an exported printer. Just configure your printer to be shared and install the driver on the remote device. Why you think VNC should be burdened with this already supported feature is beyond me. Of course I might be silly in assuming that anyone who doesn't know enough to specify the OS running on their machine when asking for help must be running Windows. I suppose that is merely a nasty stereotype. Sharing printers, even between OS's, is a well supported and well understood function but outside the scope of this list. > -Original Message- > From: Chris Wolfe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 10:20 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: remote printing > > > Print to file, FTP file to local machine, print file. I do > not remember > if the Windows print to file options write a generic file or a > printer-specific one, as I tend to print to PDF and then > transfer that. > > Chris > > Michael Schwarz wrote: > > > > I have an application where I need to remote print using > VNC. Is this > > possible? I need to run a program on the remote printer > and print it > > locally. Is this possible? Any help or pointers would be > appreciated. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Michael > > > - > > To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list > > to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html > > > - > - > To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list > to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html > - - To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html -
ctl-esc esc gone
3.3.3r7 server on NT 1.2.1.0 Viewer from Tridia on Win98 Most of the time, but not all the time, ctrl-esc esc does not get me out of full screen mode. When this happens Ctrl-alt-del is also disabled. If I have managed to get into a login screen on he server side then then I am dead. I can't send ctl-alt-del to the server to log in. ctl-alt-del won't reboot the client. ctl-esc esc doesn't bring up the menu as it should. My only way out is the reset button. Normally the way I terminate the session is by killing the client from the server side. It is only a problem if my screen saver kicks into password protected screen protection mode. Basically everything works from a clean powerup but eventually it gets into the ignore special character mode. It seems like rebooting the server is what clears the problem. Is this a known bug? Is there an alternatitive way of getting control back on the client side without resorting to a power cycle? I am also having problems seeing the cursor in some exotic applications. Instead of the cursor motion I see the numeric keypad equivalent number even though I am using the alternate cursor key set not on the numeric pad. Again it works from a clean boot of the server but eventually goes away. I haven't noticed whether both of these key handling problems happens at the same time. NOTE: I switched to the tridia viewer in hopes of fixing the problem but the behavior did not change. This is consistant with it being a server problem, i.e. rebooting the server temporarily fixes the problem. Regards, Steve Morris - To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html -
RE: Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion
Steve Bostedor [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] makes the silly arguement: > You're asking the other guy to sift through technical > manuals and FAQs for his answer, it doesn't seem consistent > that you are not willing to do the same. There is an asymmetry here. Asking people to look for obvious answers before wasting bandwidth is not the same as expecting the givers of help to sift through wasted bandwidth just because they want to contribute to and participate in real constructive discussion. If you want those who know the answers to questions to hang around and answer questions it behooves you not to waste their time. We are not all the same here. There are givers of help and getters of help. It is reasonable to ask the getters to jump a small hurdle when they want a favor. It is reasonable for the givers to ask that their volunteer time not be wasted unnecessarily. It is reasonable to expect the askers for help to do a little work for the free help they get. The person who gives charity is not the same as the person asking for charity. This distinction is often missed by people asking for charity. I ALWAYS try to do the expected sifting before I ask for help on a mailing list. I expect all other supplicants to do the same. I believe this is completely consistant. - To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html -
RE: Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion
Steve, "Appropriate topics of discussion" and "definition and management of abuse" are always valid topics of discussion on any list that does not have a separate administrative sublist or process. I have no personal issue to discuss with you. This is a public question. You took a public position on a valid list topic that I disagree with. NOTE: Positions cannot have arrogance, only people do. The arrogance of a person, or lack thereof has nothing to do with the validity of an arguement. Whether or not you think I am arrogant is not a valid topic of discussion on this list. I don't happen to think I am arrogant but would be happy to discuss that offline if you think it is important. For the list the key question is "Do you disagree on the substance of my arguement?" I don't mind you calling me arrogant as an aside while refuting my position but please don't forget the important step of discussing the position. Otherwise you are just name calling. My position in summary: It is not important to be nice to newbies who waste bandwidth with questions they could have resolved by checking the FAQ or list archives. The proper response to such a post is a pointer to the information source AND a clear statement that the request was abuse of the list. Some people prefer to make that statement more politely than others. I consider the tone to be an issue of style and to be acceptable eithor way. It is the substance that counts. The reply should be helpful in both ways, point to the proper information and education concerning list etiquette. I think there is zero "requirement" to be nice to idiots^H^H^H^H^Hpeople who waste our time. Giving the appropriate information is "nice" enough. On the other hand slamming a newbie without giving any assistance should be considered a flame and inappropriate on the list. Flaming should be done in private. This standard is in use on many lists and seems to work fine. > -Original Message- > From: Steve Bostedor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 10:16 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion > > > Again, we disagree based on the arrogance of that position. > I think that, to > follow your own advice, you should reply to me personally at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you wish to discuss this further so > that you do not > cause others "to sift through wasted bandwidth just because > [you] want to > contribute to and participate in real constructive > discussion". This is a > valid issue, but should be discussed in private because it > does not pertain > to VNC in any direct manner. > > Thanks, > Steve Bostedor - To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html -
vnc-list Outlook problems, was RE: Noise on the vnc-list :
I haven't bothered to look into it but the vnc-list mail format confuses MS outlook. It doesn't see the original sender unless you jump through some special hoops. The result is that is very hard for an Outlook user (at least the flavor used at my site) to reply directly to the sender instead of to the list. Since Outlook makes it nearly impossible to see the raw message it is a little hard to debug which is why I haven't persued it. Here are the symptoms: In outlook open a normal vnc-list message. You see the FROM: address as the sender and the TO: address as vnc-list. So far so good. Then hit the reply or reply-to buttons. In both cases the original sender is not anywhere to be seen. This is the dance I go through to reply directly to the original sender. 1) Open the message 2) Single click on the senders name and address. 3) ^C to copy the message to clipboard. 4) hit reply button (or new for that matter.) 5) Paste the email address into the appropriate field. It is not intuitively obvious that the name can be selected and copied (steps 2 and 3) because outlook doesn't show any of the normal visual clues associated with clickable text. I'm sure many people never figure out this sequence. Besides I think it is impossible to select the sender name without opening the mail in a seperate window. Many people use the view pane in outlook. The sender doesn't seem to be selectable there no matter what you do. To confuse things this is not normal behavior with Outlook mailing list traffic. On other lists I get the expected fields set automatically with "reply to all". Something that the vnc-list is doing to the header is different and is partially confusing Outlook. I suspect that if the list header was modified to be more Outlook friendly the traffic on the list with reduce a little. On the other hand that would probably break everyone elses procmail setup :-(. > -Original Message- > From: Simon Biber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 2:16 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion > > > Yes it does. On your message below, the from is > From: "Steve Bostedor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Simon. > > - Original Message - > From: "Steve Bostedor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:30 AM > Subject: RE: Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion > > > > Because this list does not include the senders email > address in the from > > field. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > Carlyle Sutphen > > Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 9:13 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion > > > > > > Surely you have a "reply to all" option? Use that, delete > the list's > address > > and copy the sender's address to the primary recipient > field. Why is that > a > > huge pain? > > > > And I find that feature very convneient, that replies > default to the list. > > Even when I write a new messgae, I generally reply to an > old mail and > change > > the subject to suit my message. > > > > > > > > Date: 22.12.2000 18:02 > > To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > Reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Subject: Re: Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion > > Message text: > > > > > > Jean-Marie Theis wrote: > > > > > > Maybe I have a small simple suggestion concerning the > way we handle > > > technical questions : > > > Once a question is launched , the rule could be to > respond privately > > > to the person who has a problem until he has solved it. > > > > This is a good idea, but it is very inconvenient due to > > the (IMO) evil Reply-To header inserted into all vnc-list > > messages, that forces all replies to go to the list. If > > you have something to say that is not of general interest > > or relevance, it is a huge pain to send it only to the > > author of the message. > > > > -- Joe Knapka > > > - > > To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list > > to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Diese E-Mail enthdlt vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich gesch|tzte > > Informationen. > > Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese > E-Mail irrt|mlich > > erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender > und vernichten > Sie > > diese Mail. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte > Weitergabe dieser > > Mail > > ist nicht gestattet. > > > > This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged > information. If you > > are > > not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail > in error)
RE: Kill Clients
It's best use for me is that CTRL-ESC ESC capability keeps going away. Killing the client from the server is to only way I have left to get out of full screen mode failing restarting the NT server itself. Why am I the only one seeing such strangeness? Sigh. What strange keyboard handling does vnc-client do that CTRL-ALT-DEL handling goes away after an undetermined time? > -Original Message- > From: Steve Bostedor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 5:00 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Kill Clients > > > It does have valid uses. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of antoine > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 3:56 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Kill Clients > > > - Message d'origine - > De : "Ian Cowley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > @ : <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Envoyi : jeudi 4 janvier 2001 15:12 > Objet : RE: Kill Clients > > Typo. > > I meant "Kill All Clients" > > It's an option at the server end to disconnect all viewers. > >> Ian - To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html -
RE: VNC Newsgroup
I find that more and more companies to not support a USENET feed, perceiving that it is mostly used for personal purposes. It is seen as a lot of clutter for little benefit. It is mostly computer issues where there is a strong tradition of good USENET support, where USENET is considered a primary source of information. It is in computer technology, lead by the Internet Engineering Task Force (IET,) where the net and by extension USENET, is considered critical. Other businesses and technologies are discussed but secondarily. In other words a large number of people, myself included, have no easy access to USENET. The problem is growing. USENET is no longer the center of the Internet. Many people have never even heard of it. We all have access to email. > -Original Message- > From: Carillon, Mike [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 7:15 AM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: RE: VNC Newsgroup > > > True this is an unusual case. I work for a police > department who receives > internet access from the city. The city controls internet > access and we > have no say so on what are users are allowed to receive and > not receive. I > am sure the city administrators have complete access to the > internet but us > police department administrators do not. > > > -Original Message- > From: Oeschey, Lars [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 6:57 AM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: RE: VNC Newsgroup > > > > firewall that blocks access to newsgroup. If everyone can > > receive email and > > not everyone has access to newsgroups then how would it be > > available to a > > wider audience? > > I'd guess it is rather usual that administrators and the > like (which I think > are the primary users of VNC) have access to newsgroup. I > couldn't do my > work without them. > > Lars > - > To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list > to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html > - > - > To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list > to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html > - - To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html -
Can't start vnc service
On WinNT The "admin->install service" refuses to install a service; of course with no diagnostic info. I believe my problem is that winvnc is already listed as a service in the services list. Unfortunately I can find no way of deleting things from this list. The services utility allows disabling a service but not deleting it. Uninstalling a newly installed winvnc does not delete it. I obviously did this once before since it is there in the service list which means I have appropriate install privileges. Any clue how I can delete that useless winvnc service so I can reinstall it? I probably forgot to uninstall once before reinstalling and now I am being punished in perpetuity for my sin. ;-). Any advice gratefully and politely accepted. - To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html -
Authentication failure is an error in server or client?
I have basically wiped my system and am reinstalling everything including vnc. I have gotten to the point where vncclient asks for a password and then reports an authentication error. Given my home/work 24 hour debug cycle I'm trying narrow down what could be wrong and on which end, client or server. So my question is: If I get the password dialog does that mean we have successfully contacted a valid server? I also just noticed that although the server service is running there is no icon in the tray. I wonder how this could be. System info: Latest vnc on both ends. Server Win NT 4 Client Win ME - To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html -
RE: what is the command to show IP address connected to my comput er
ipconfig works everywhere > -Original Message- > From: Riley, Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 12:04 PM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: RE: what is the command to show IP address connected to my > comput er > > > Does anyone no the command for win 9x? > > > -Original Message- > From:Foster, Kevin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent:Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:49 AM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: RE: what is the command to show IP address > connected to my > comput er > > On NT you can use: > > C:\Netstat > > Kevin Foster > Systems Administrator - "Building a better idiot through automation" > IT - Engineering Services > Desk: (512) 741-1356 - Cell (512) 970-6748 > > Visit www.Vignette.com to learn more. > > -Original Message- > From: Riley, Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:37 AM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: what is the command to show IP address connected to > my computer > > Thanks, > - > To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list > to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html > - > - > To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list > to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html > - > - > To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list > to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html > - - To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html -
RE: FTP Server
I guess we all know the issues here. What we don't have is a good answer. The VNC team has decided to bound the development process by keeping to the core functionality, correctly reasoning that things like file transfer, secure connection and local printing of remote files are all solved elsewhere. Unfortunately this leaves the end user with a bundle of requirements that have to be solved piecemeal. This creates a barrier to entry that leaves out the less sophisticated user without the benefit of sysadmin support. In other contexts a third party sometimes steps in to provide an integration/packaging function. Consider RedHats relationship to Linus Torvold's Linux Kernel. The Linux kernel is practically useless without the rest of the package. Imagine if someone were to make a windows package which included VNC, a SSH client and an FTP client, along with a common configuration procedure. I think this would be quite popular and adequately address Steve Bostedor's and many other posters issues. This is the key conflict. Many end users (especially non UXIX users) need a more inclusive package than a raw VNC and there is no one willing to provide the packaging/integration service that most end users are not sophisticated enough to handle themselves. This leads end users to request the additional features as enhancements to VNC, thus this perennially reoccurring thread. > -Original Message- > From: Steve Bostedor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] ... parts clipped ... > Why run twenty > programs to accomplish something that you should be able to > do with one? > Isn't the point of technology to make things easier and more > efficient? This is a clash of cultures issue. It is the UNIX way to make independent tools that can be mixed and matched to provide a broader range of user selectable functionality. "One package does everything" is the Microsoft way towards monopoly control and to stifle innovation. Consider the lowly grammar checker. Microsoft bought one 10 years ago and embedded it in Word. As a result the grammar checker is just as limited as it was 10 years ago. Microsoft has no financial incentive to enhance it and no one else can make money competing with something Microsoft gives you for free. Using the Linux example imagine if we tried to integrate the gcc compiler directly into the Linux Kernal or the web browser directly into X11. Breaking out development on clean functional lines leads to faster functional growth. In this the VNC team is totally correct. However integration is a important and valuable function. Who will be the integrator for remote Windows access with VNC at the center if the att team will not do it? I think the answer is no one, which means that VNC will be forever at a disadvantage competing against the commercial packages which handle the integration. VNC will remain a tool for the sophisticated user. - To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html -
RE: FTP Server
Gustafsson, Bjorn [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] rather annoyingly writes: > Sure, someone packaging VNC with > FTP/HTTP/SMTP/POP3/IRC/NNTP/Napster/Real/Telnet servers > might be a good idea Now you're being unfair. There is a real need being discussed here. Making fun of people with that need does not enhance the discussion. Nobody asked for "HTTP/SMTP/POP3/IRC/NNTP/Napster/Real/Telnet servers." A common VNC user will use it to access a work machine from home, especially now that many of us have broadband access which makes this workable. VNC alone is not enough to solve the needs of this user. An absolutely critical need is secure access. This is not part of VNC. Local printing of the remote files is often required. And file transfer would be nice because VNC is not really adequate for extensive editing sessions. Besides file transfer solves the printing problem. An integrated VNC/SSH/FTP would be a powerful and useful combination to solve a single need. Most home users of VNC will want that set of functionality. Asking for this set of related functions is not the same as asking for Napster to be integrated. This is a nice tight set of requirements which logically go together to define a useful remote access environment. It is this very same set of requirements that are often asked for on this list. The request is reasonable. It might not be cost effective for the VNC team to respond to this request but saying "no we can't do that" is not the same as saying "stupid request." You seem to be in the "that's a stupid request" category. Remote administration is a valuable use for VNC but represents only a subset of the users. I'm sure remote administators don't see the point because they are quite capable of solving the additional requirements. It should be part of their professional skill set. I was trying see if there was room for some middle ground in this discussion. - To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html -
RE: FTP Server
> 1. From the macroeconomic point of view, there is little > demand for such a > package and we're only hearing the vocal few; > > 2. The few "end users (especially non UNIX users)" who are > in the know how > to set up such an environemnt are not sharing their > knowledge effectively > or at all with the "many end users (especially non UNIX > users) who need a > more inclusive package that a raw VNC." I can only speak from personal experience and the experience of the few people I have turned on to VNC. I think we fall in between 1. and 2. Some of us stumble and fumble and eventually figure out ssh. Our knowledge is not adequate to help anyone else since we barely have it working. We give up on file transfer and remote printing because we have exhausted our limited abilities. We just wish we could figure it out but instead work less effectively. The others never figure it out and give up thus never being in a position to post requests to this list. In a more perfect world ssh and scp would be available as libraries which could be integrated into VNC and other packages much like regular expression libraries are independently developed and then included in packages like Python and Tcl; or the gnu readline package; or compression libraries; or graphics file format libraries. This would solve the independent development issues. The only thing VNC would need to do is provide the hooks somewhere close to the transport layer. Such an API could then support other transport mechanisms including tose not based on TCP/IP. This would allow tight integration of secure transport without expanding the development effort to include secure transport. - To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html -
RE: FTP Server
(soapbox on) Why is discussion so adversarial. One class of users has a problem and keeps posting requests. Another class of users desn't have that problem and basically declares the first group to be stupid because they can't figure it out. Let me state my suspicion: I think we have a UNIX guru v.s Windoz end user split here. The UNIX guru has no problem and is disdainful of those idiots who chose to use Windoz anyway. Their issues are considered unimportant. The UNIX guru wannabes jump in with unhelpful "me too" posts that repeat the same inadequete suggestions. The naive Windoz user has a single minded focus on a single solution (expand the VNC protocol) and responds negatively to every counter suggestion. Can't we try to avoid class warefare and try to solve the problem instead. I am a long time UNIX user/developer. I did a port of V7 UNIX to a 68000 in 1981. I conceed UNIX guru standing to few people. In many ways my carreer has been data transfer. I could create a solution from scratch with enough time and money. In spite of that I can't find an EASY solution to the file transfer problem between Windoz systems. On Windoz I am a relative novice and I have sympathy for the other Windoz novices. I think this is the key platform generating all of these requests. Every UNIX box already has an FTP server running unless someone goes out of their way to disable it. Windoz (and the Mac) are more problematic. Part of the problem is the ease of VNC installation. 90% of the people of all skill levels are quickly up and running assuming secure access has already been addressed. This means that VNC itself is usable by a large spread of skill sets. What would be helpful as a start is for someone to collect the currently existing solutions into a single document and then somehow make that document available to VNC users, probably as a pointer in the FAQ. (I would be happy to host the document on my web pages if there is no better solution.) It is all well and good to declare this to be not a VNC issue but it is a perennial issue for many VNC users. Once you make a connection often the second thing many users want to do is copy a file. The current FAQ addresses this issue basically by saying "we ain't going to do it; you're on your own." This is unhelpful to say the least and generally perceived as negative and adversarial by people trying to solve the problem for themselves. (soapbox off) - To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html -
RE: File Transfer
A simple, one file at a time, binary file transfer would be a big leap forward. There are times when I want a whole directory but mostly I just want to edit locally that single word file or C file and then send it back. The main reason I want to do that is because the cursor lag behind mouse position is so distracting. I get hypnotized waiting for the remote cursor to catch up with the local one and forget what I am doing. > -Original Message- > From: David Rothman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 11:00 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: File Transfer > > > well, that's fine for simple text, or i guess if u wanted to > use uuencode or even hex...but really that's hardly a robust > solution. i mean, sure it can be done, but i'd think it > would be easier to just split the file using a simple > utility and email the pieces. > > my question was meant for large folders of small to large > sized files. cutting and pasting via the clipboard wouldn't > be practicalthanks tho... > > > > > > - Original Message - > From: "James ''Wez'' Weatherall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 10:41 AM > Subject: File Transfer > > > > For what it's worth: > > > > I rather like the clipboard method of file transfer. > Writing a simple pair > > of "send" and "receive" programs to put files onto the > clipboard in a > > standard format and pick them back off would be useful in > other situations, > > wouldn't be overly complicated (UUencode could almost do > the job) and would > > neither "pollute" the VNC binaries nor the protocol. > > > > Cheers, > > > > James "Wez" Weatherall > > -- > > "The path to enlightenment is > /usr/bin/enlightenment" > > Laboratory for Communications Engineering, Cambridge - Tel > : 766513 > > AT&T Labs Cambridge, UK - Tel > : 343000 > > -- > --- > > To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe > vnc-list > > to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html > > -- > --- > - > To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list > to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html > - - To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html -
Proposed solution to file transfer problem.
I want to rewind a little. In the his post [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] made a proposal that could the the good enough solution many of us could live with. He made several suggestions but the one I liked best requires a utility on the server side and a utility on the client side. One utility reads a file, turns it into a text format that will survive cut and paste (uuencode is one possibility) and thens put this text representation onto the clipboard. VNC already moves the clipboard from one side to the other. So at the other end is another utility that reads the clipboard, decodes the text representation and creates the file. The format can include permission data etc. The user basically runs the utilities on first one system and then the other and the file is transferred. It requires no extensions to VNC because passing the clipboard back and forth is already supported. That two step process is slightly awkward but I can easily live with it. There are design issues over the file format that would need to be addressed. For example the header would need to be powerful enough to be useful in Mac, UNIX and Windowz platforms. One might want to specify a multiple file format. On systems that support it drag and drop could be added. If it was done cleanly enough it the VNC team might eventually consider bringing it inside. Does anyone else like this idea as much as I do? - To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html -
RE: file xfer
Does anyone know where to find mime64 and pkzip libraries? I think the MIME suggestion is brilliant. This is just the kind of application that MIME designed for, i.e. packaging up arbitrary data for the purpose of passing it between different platforms in a portable/transportable TEXT form. I would have chosen .tgz format over pkzip but they are effectively equivalent and who cares if it is hidden from the user. Neithor is good enough for the Mac. Mac users wwould have to be satisfied with moving hqx files as single files. Another nice thing about MIME is that it is extensible. We can enhance as needed. I suggest that a prototype start with the MIME encapsulation of a single file which can be eithor binary or TEXT. That lets us handle platform translation of CR/LF. Let the user zip and unzip it in the beginning. This defers such user interface questions as where in the tree to do the extract. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 5:10 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: file xfer > > > : Grant McDorman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > : If we decide on a way of handling the "line end" in > binary, I can put > : together an X application to handle it. > > I would suggest using pkzip format to handle multiple files > (and compression), and MIME encapsulation to describe the > content format and provide a binary encoding format. > > Indeed, MIME would allow the sender to tell any recipients > what kind of lump they are getting, allowing for different > encoding formats; I'd still suggest pkzip with compression > and MIME base64 encoding as the defaults. > - > To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list > to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html > - - To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html -
