[Unity-design] Quit vs Close - Quicklists

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

the right-click menu in the launchers for e.g. Empathy or Transmission show
an entry labeled "Quit".
Clicking this item does not make the applications quit, it merely closes
their respective main window.

Quit and Close should be treated in a distinctive manner, this is important
to the mental equivalent of holding on to an appliance and putting an
appliance back into the tool shelf.

Does this require further discussion?
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Re: [Unity-design] Quit vs Close - Quicklists

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

100% nod and agree!

On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 05:50, Dylan McCall  wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 12:01 PM, frederik.nn...@gmail.com
>  wrote:
> > the right-click menu in the launchers for e.g. Empathy or Transmission
> show
> > an entry labeled "Quit".
> > Clicking this item does not make the applications quit, it merely closes
> > their respective main window.
> >
> > Quit and Close should be treated in a distinctive manner, this is
> important
> > to the mental equivalent of holding on to an appliance and putting an
> > appliance back into the tool shelf.
> >
> > Does this require further discussion?
>
> There is some discussion about this in a bug report I filed a while
> ago: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/616447
>
> It was sent to ayatana-design in January, so I'm sure someone will
> chime in about it in the future. Maybe you'd like to subscribe to that
> bug report :)
>
> And I agree "Quit" is flawed for two reasons: it doesn't quit, and the
> launcher doesn't really express application state anyway. A running
> application will disappear from the launcher when all its windows are
> closed, at which point you will be unable to "quit" it from the
> launcher. It creates false expectations, and (speaking as someone who
> once sold computers to people) those never end well.
>

this is exactly the right bug to this discussion.
I was surprised to see that there are actually diverging opinions on this
matter..

To me it is clear that quit means i want to leave something.
If a frontend window is closed, this means quit the visual part of
something, but if the frontend mentally represents an application with all
that it does, then all that it does should also quit if i say so.

If a frontend application interface has not true quit option, it should not
diguise a "close" option by calling it "quit".
This doesn't only confuse the user, it also fools developers into believing
they have already implemented the basic frontend controls correctly.
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Re: [Unity-design] Action Dialogue for Unity Lenses

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 00:54, Marco Kirchberger wrote:

> [...]
> I created a small mock-up to show you how I imagine this:
> http://ubuntuone.com/6lsAMuAGjO5J6JIw27ZxXP



extremely interesting idea!
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Re: [Unity-design] Launcher should be optional on secondary displays

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

Hi Nicholas,

On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 17:25, Nicholas Skaggs <
nicholas.ska...@canonical.com> wrote:

>  Hello all. I sent a bug report that was really just a wishlist item and
> was directed towards this list instead. I'll link the bug report for
> clarity's sake.
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/938242
>
> What I'm asking for is the ability to not have the launcher on a
> non-primary display, and to be able to independently configure when the
> launcher is enabled on all non-primary displays. For example these should
> all be possible scenarios,
>
> 2 monitors, one launcher on primary screen
> 4 monitors, one launcher on primary screen, one launcher on screen 4
> 3 monitors, 3 launchers
>
> I think I would argue that anyone running 4 displays is capable of
> understanding that if they shut the launcher off on a secondary display
> there user experience has changed. And of course, the default would be to
> have a launcher on all screens -- it would have to be changed to support
> this idea.
>

Nick, i work on a dual screen setup every day, i installed the alpha
(precise) to get some of the elementary problems fixed already.
This is a very annoying thing, it makes me so angry that i "gnome-shell
--replace" sometimes, just because i cant stand this edge resistance
annoyance. This needs fixing, and whoever test Ubuntu on a multi monitor
setup will notice that it could really need some love.
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Re: [Unity-design] Fwd: About tiling window management in Unity

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 22:08, Gabriel Pettier wrote:

> Le jeu. 23 févr. 2012 12:48:46 CET, gabriel pettier a écrit :
>
>  Hi everybody
>>
>> First, i want to point I'm overall very very happy with Unity efforts,
>> and i speak out loud about it since Natty, it's a great thing, and it
>> helped increasing my productivity a lot, while getting me back to a more
>> "standard" desktop (was using wmii before, as gnome ergonomic didn't feel
>> productive at all).
>>
>> However, in Oneiric, something that I, and a lot of people that i know
>> use, have been broken, and as i understands it, the current intend is not
>> fix it, or provide an alternative solution, but to break it further, for
>> consistency, and i'm quite disappointed about it. As bug reports and their
>> numerous duplicates about this didn't lead to a fix, i understand it's
>> something which has to be discussed with the design team, to find a
>> solution that is both useful to proficient users, and new users that shall
>> not be confused.
>>
>> I'm talking about the resize cycling of windows when using
>> ctrl-alt-numpad. When unity went out, in Natty, using ctrl-alt-4 and
>> ctrl-alt-6, the first use would semi-maximize left or right, and any
>> consecutive press would change the size, not the position, of the window,
>> that allowed to quickly organize windows, without being forced to the
>> 50%/50% ratio. For me, it was a selling point.
>>
>> Oneiric broke it, with more than a few bug reports about it (#878820
>> #879218 #893017 and others, sometime wrongly marked as duplicate of #876591
>> which is different and was fixed). Discussions in #878820 indicate that
>> while the same behavior for 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 is still working (albeit not
>> nearly as often useful), the fix will be to break them too.
>>
>> What I don't get is what is the problem with this behavior? What's the
>> rational to break it (although as i understand it, the break wasn't
>> intentional at first)? And, in the end, is there any way to either get it
>> back and adapt it to new keyboard shortcuts (as i understand there is
>> change to come on that front)?
>>
>> Please keep in mind that i appreciate your work, and just want the
>> awesomeness in unity to shine, not to disappear, i more than welcomed the
>> default activation of Tiling in unity, and the vast superiority those
>> keyboard shortcuts conveyed, to the equivalent features in windows OS, and
>> I'm just saddened this *killer feature* just disappeared. (In fact, i was
>> expecting improvement on the tiling front, like stacking, moving a window
>> from one screen to another in dual screen and such, but hey, that could
>> wait).
>>
>> Anyway, thanks for your time and your consideration. I really hope we can
>> find a solution to this issue.
>>
>
> I have a hard time beleving i'm the only one concerned about this here,
> some people are building vanilla compiz grid plugin  to get that behaviour
> back 
> (https://bugs.launchpad.net/**compiz-plugins-main/+bug/**878820see
>  #34). Nobody miss the grid size cycling here?
>
>
I think good work is being done on the tiling.
For example we now have a visual indication for whether or not a window is
being tiled: the rounded window corners now disappear, once a window is
semi-maximized to either the left or the right screen half.
This doesn't work for vertical stacking of tiles yet, but i'm sure it will
be fixed soon, too:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/694302

unfortunately, the more (fancy) features you have in  an application, the
more expert manpower it will bind in maintenance.
The overall quality of a set of code is easier to maintain, if the code is
lean and focused on doing one thing well.
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Re: [Unity-design] Fwd: About tiling window management in Unity

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

I think it would be more reasonable to enable a grid for resizing windows.
And moving a window should also default to gridded steps.
Lifting a window out of this grid should be possible with a modifier for
example ALT+SUPER.

After this is implemented, the importance of having keyboard shortcuts for
percentual pseudo-maximisation is likely to decrease drastically.

Also is it important to remember a windows position, which is far easier
with a fixed set of grid nodes than with XY coordinates.
A grid can be defined as e.g. 16 steps of the horizontally available screen
width and 9 steps of vertical estate for a typical widescreen resolution
setup.

This is a pretty finite grid definition, which would make it easy to "tile"
a window or an other kind of object upon drag & drop or move. XY "float"
coordinates can not achieve the speed, simplicity and precision of an
interface such as grid.

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 02:45, Gabriel Pettier wrote:

> Le dim. 26 févr. 2012 01:21:44 CET, frederik.nn...@gmail.com a écrit :
>
>> On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 22:08, Gabriel Pettier 
>> > gabriel.pettier@gmail.**com >> wrote:
>>
>>Le jeu. 23 févr. 2012 12:48:46 CET, gabriel pettier a écrit :
>>
>>Hi everybody
>>
>>First, i want to point I'm overall very very happy with Unity
>>efforts, and i speak out loud about it since Natty, it's a
>>great thing, and it helped increasing my productivity a lot,
>>while getting me back to a more "standard" desktop (was using
>>wmii before, as gnome ergonomic didn't feel productive at all).
>>
>>However, in Oneiric, something that I, and a lot of people
>>that i know use, have been broken, and as i understands it,
>>the current intend is not fix it, or provide an alternative
>>solution, but to break it further, for consistency, and i'm
>>quite disappointed about it. As bug reports and their numerous
>>duplicates about this didn't lead to a fix, i understand it's
>>something which has to be discussed with the design team, to
>>find a solution that is both useful to proficient users, and
>>new users that shall not be confused.
>>
>>I'm talking about the resize cycling of windows when using
>>ctrl-alt-numpad. When unity went out, in Natty, using
>>ctrl-alt-4 and ctrl-alt-6, the first use would semi-maximize
>>left or right, and any consecutive press would change the
>>size, not the position, of the window, that allowed to quickly
>>organize windows, without being forced to the 50%/50% ratio.
>>For me, it was a selling point.
>>
>>Oneiric broke it, with more than a few bug reports about it
>>(#878820 #879218 #893017 and others, sometime wrongly marked
>>as duplicate of #876591 which is different and was fixed).
>>Discussions in #878820 indicate that while the same behavior
>>for 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 is still working (albeit not nearly as often
>>useful), the fix will be to break them too.
>>
>>What I don't get is what is the problem with this behavior?
>>What's the rational to break it (although as i understand it,
>>the break wasn't intentional at first)? And, in the end, is
>>there any way to either get it back and adapt it to new
>>keyboard shortcuts (as i understand there is change to come on
>>that front)?
>>
>>Please keep in mind that i appreciate your work, and just want
>>the awesomeness in unity to shine, not to disappear, i more
>>than welcomed the default activation of Tiling in unity, and
>>the vast superiority those keyboard shortcuts conveyed, to the
>>equivalent features in windows OS, and I'm just saddened this
>>*killer feature* just disappeared. (In fact, i was expecting
>>improvement on the tiling front, like stacking, moving a
>>window from one screen to another in dual screen and such, but
>>hey, that could wait).
>>
>>Anyway, thanks for your time and your consideration. I really
>>hope we can find a solution to this issue.
>>
>>
>>I have a hard time beleving i'm the only one concerned about this
>>here, some people are building vanilla compiz grid plugin  to get
>>that behaviour back
>>
>> (https://bugs.launchpad.net/__**compiz-plugins-main/+bug/__**878820<https://bugs.launchpad.net/__compiz-plugins-main/+bug/__87882

Re: [Unity-design] Fwd: About tiling window management in Unity

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

Hello sabdfl,

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 10:56, Mark Shuttleworth  wrote:

>
> I'll ask John to review the bindings and to make tiling possible in a
> clean and consistent way.
>

hurrah :D


>
> Out of curiosity, is quartering the finest granularity of typical useful
> tiling?


in what concerns tiling itself, quartering is the finest "granularity" i
could determine as u common usecase on comfortably sized full hd resolution
enabled monitor doing my every day work.

I've been mentioning a "grid" in connection to this topic, because tiling
is being implemented with Compiz Grid in Unity.
Useful grid stepping of default operations such as moving a window or
resizing it are closely interrelated with the invisible canvas on which
also tiling happens.
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Re: [Unity-design] Is their plan to make the video thumbnail size larger in Dash Video Lens?

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 23:35, Mark Shuttleworth  wrote:

>
> There's a good opportunity to integrate the styling of the TV Dash and the
> video lens, how about some mockups / exploration on that front?


isn't novacut/dmedia on the way there somehow?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mJK_K8-fGE
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Re: [Unity-design] Fwd: About tiling window management in Unity

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 15:50, Philipp Gassmann  wrote:

> Am 02/26/2012 02:21 PM, schrieb Mark Shuttleworth:
> > On 26/02/12 11:50, Gabriel Pettier wrote:
> >> I think beeing able to put 4 windows side by side would be great (or
> >> two with ¼/¾ widths), vertical spliting is less used but a top/bottom
> >> split is sometime useful. Too much would makes it hard to use, so i
> >> think a 4×2 grid would be nice.
> >
> > Quartering would be a 2x2 grid, not 4x2.
> >
> The compiz plugin that is currently still active but in part disabled
> allows finer tiling by repeatedly pressing Ctrl+Alt+[Numpad-Key] e.g.
> [9] for upper right corner.
> So you could tile up to 6 windows with flexible width.
>
> The middle row doesn't work currently, which would be vertically
> maximised windows (5 being maximising or narrow centered)


Are you sure this is correct?
Repeatedly pressing e.g. [CTRL] [ALT] [NUM4] e.g. kept resizing the window
within a pseudo maximized-to-left-edge state.
There was no keyboard-only way of tiling another slice next to it. Same
goes for vertical stacking. So this means with the keyboard-only interface
there was no way of tiling more than 4 windows at a time, except when
resizing them in a way that would enable one single [CTRL] [ALT] [NUM5]
narrow-resized window tiled to the screen center, which would occupy the
entire vertical space from touching the panel on the top edge down to the
bottom of the screen.

I don't recall at any time having had the possiblity of neatly tiling 6
windows onto the screen in a keyboard-only way.

"Flexible width" is one way of saying it. It would have been a thousand
times easier to simply resize windows manually within a sensible grid - the
mouse way..
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Re: [Unity-design] Launcher should be optional on secondary displays

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

Thanks for the info..

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 00:08, Jo-Erlend Schinstad <
joerlend.schins...@gmail.com> wrote:

> /apps/compiz-1/plugins/**unityshell/screen0/options/**overcome_pressure
>

doesn't help, unfortunately.
I'd say this is a major _fail_
if you know how to remove this major annoyance, please give me another hint.

the worst thing is: my gesture (moving the pointer, moving a window) is
being obstructed in both directions, ouch!
makes unity unusable for me.

now the added removal of keyboard workspace navigation makes it even
worse.. but its an alpha and i'm patient ;)
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Re: [Unity-design] Is there a reason Ctrl+Alt+Left/Right/Up/Down was disabled?

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

AH.. now i see..
i think it's better for blender3d users..

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 05:42, Stephen Rees-Carter
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Is there a reason Ctrl+Alt+Left/Right/Up/Down was disabled?
>
> I realise that this combination has been switched over to the new
> "Super+Shift+Left/Right/Up/Down" combination, but I don't understand
> why the existing one was broken in the process.
> The bug report requesting the change,
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/891757, says the
> following:
>"However where there is no conflict between the existing keyboard
> shortcuts and the new shortcuts, the existing shortcuts should always
> be preserved."
>
> Given that the Ctrl+Alt+Arrow combination has been around for years
> and it works in every other distro I've ever used. I don't see how the
> Ctrl+Alt+Arrow combination could be a conflict for any other function.
> It seems like a stupid change which will annoy a lot of people,
> particularly for an LTS...
>
> There is a bug report about it:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/940085
>
> It's also worth nothing, the new Super+Shift+Arrow combination is
> broken for Super+Shift+Right for me:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/940803
>
> Thanks,
> ~Stephen
>
> --
> Stephen Rees-Carter ~ Valorin
> http://stephen.rees-carter.net/
>
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Re: [Unity-design] Is there a reason Ctrl+Alt+Left/Right/Up/Down was disabled?

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 20:07, Jonathan Meek wrote:

> I'd like to point out that the new key combination presents quite an
> annoying behavior as well: Whenever I test +shift+arrow, if I delay
> a little too long, the shortcuts overlay pops up and obscures my view of
> the content. And If I'm just trying to check what's on that desktop, that's
> a usability issue, no?


yes, i'm experiencing the same issues..
if i were a developer, i'd be glad to hear suggestions as to how one could
improve this situation reasonably.


> On a slightly related note, aren't we over-using the  key? At this
> point, if you want to be a shortcut afficionado, your finger will never
> leave the  key except perhaps to hit alt. There are a couple more
> key combinations that still don't use , somebody quick, file bugs! ;)
>

if you're not sure it's a bug, don't call it that.
If you won't call it a bug, don't ask others to do so.
Using [SUPER] on a window-management level is absolutely what the key is
cut out for.
The other modifiers are often already mapped within creative software
suites, the help zooming, grabbing and moving, extruding and duplicating in
an intuitive and fast way, as if they were additional mouse keys.

The only way to really avoid breaking these application specific bindings
of modifier keys is to assign one main modifier to the window management
operations, and to free the other keys for application specific usage.

Unity is on it's way there, if i guessed correctly.
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Re: [Unity-design] HUD: reduce clutter by removing repeated information

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

Hi,

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 19:02, Jo-Erlend Schinstad <
joerlend.schins...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Please look at this screenshot: http://ubuntuone.com/**
> 501RQqrOW1fh89fsIWhx4z 
>
> When accessing deep command structures (previously known as menus :)),
> most of the information in HUD is repeated many times. This creates
> unnecessary clutter.
>
> It would be better to display the submenu as a header and then only lists
> the menu items under that header. I'm not a great Gimp artist, so I'll use
> text to illustrate how I think it should be, compared to what you see in
> the screenshot. [more encodings] represents the search field with input.
>
> Current:
>
> [more encodings]
> View > Character Encodings > More Encodings > User Defined
> View > Character Encodings > More Encodings > Unicode (UTF-16)
> View > Character Encodings > More Encodings > Middle Eastern
> View > Character Encodings > More Encodings > SE & SW Asian
> View > Character Encodings > More Encodings > East Asian
>
>
> My proposal:
>
> [more encodings]
> View > Character Encodings > More Encodings (Non-clickable)
>User Defined
>Unicode (UTF-16)
>Middle Eastern
>SE & SW Asian
>East Asian
>
>
> Of course, this was just a quick example I found in the application I was
> currently using. (Thunderbird) I can imagine scenarios where you have much
> deeper hierarchies. In those cases, the actual command might have to be
> shortened because the path is too long. But the command is more important
> than the path leading to it. I think that needs consideration as a pure
> usability issue.
>
> In any case, I think this would be cleaner than repeating the entire path
> over and over.
>
> Thoughts?


yes, that's basically how constructing software works.
You build something that "works", then you start cleaning up the clutter.
Good suggestion, imo!
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Re: [Unity-design] Is there a reason Ctrl+Alt+Left/Right/Up/Down was disabled?

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 01:56, Josh Strawbridge
wrote:

>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 11:28 AM, frederik.nn...@gmail.com <
> frederik.nn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  AH.. now i see..
>>> i think it's better for blender3d users..
>>>
>>>
> unless they changed something recently, or if it's a shortcut in the maya
> layout settings, i'm pretty sure that blender doesn't use ctrl+alt+arrow
> keys for anything.
> i even just looked through the default input shortcuts to check but if i'm
> mistaken please say so. i'd be curious as to what blender uses that for.
>

you're right, i don't think CTRL+ALT+arrow is a n issue for blender users..
but take ALT-drag, that's terrible with blender. It pulls the entire window
away, when you only want to pan your view _within_ the window. So
SUPER+drag would be better, in all, concentrating window-manager-level
interaction onto the SUPER key makes it easier for an application developer
to offer reasonable key mappings _within_ an application.
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Re: [Unity-design] Difficulty switching between windows

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

how about giving window previews a consistent behaviour in all compiz
plugins?

right now i can't visually discover the "scale addons", which makes it hard
to close a window from the window picker.
and i can't move the previews. either i click it to "open" it, or i
secondary-click it to zoom in.
no layer of semantic information, no windicators on the preview, no close
button, no dragging to another workspace.

in the workspace switcher, previews can not be zoomed, the can not be
opened, again no semantic information, just dragging to another workspace
is possible..

improving the way previews are presented and how the user can interact with
them, manage them, is improving window management, i.e. improving the
experience of switching between windows, imo.

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 17:01, Mark Shuttleworth  wrote:

>  On 05/03/12 15:39, Aviv wrote:
>
> *ALTERNATIVE IMPLEMENTATION*
>
> Users can additionally press
>
> (some key)+(1 to 0)
>
> [analogous to Super+(1 to 0) for switching between applications]
>
> to switch to the desired window.
>
>
> Apps in the launcher are persistent and placed by the user. So the
> Super- convention is workable. But windows are ephemeral, not "placed"
> by the user. So -3 today won't give you the same window as -3
> tomorrow. So there's no memory, no chance of it being usable.
>
> Interesting idea, but let's come up with a few more interesting ideas :)
>
> I generally agree that window switching isn't as slick as it could be, so
> I'm open to ideas; just not this one.
>
> Mark
>
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>
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Re: [Unity-design] Strange ghost image from HUD (I think)

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

thx!
have the same issue on a multi monitor setup..

On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 13:09, Patrick Seemann  wrote:

> bug reported: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/950771
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Patrick Seemann wrote:
>
>> I have seen this white rectangular ghost image appear on my screen as
>> well. Next time I see it happening I will report a bug, but it is kind of
>> hard to describe since I don't know what it is caused by. You can remove
>> the ghost image by restarting unity via "unity --replace" for example.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Patrick
>> On Mar 7, 2012 7:53 PM, "Omer Akram"  wrote:
>>
>>> This is a mailing list to discuss Design, not report bugs. For bugs
>>> use 'ubuntu-bug unity'
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 7:11 PM, John O'Brien  wrote:
>>> > So this has been driving me a little nuts. At some point early on when
>>> > using my system, this pops up at the top left of my screen
>>> > (http://ubuntuone.com/4f3EG1dE8sSMDkSkhquGRh)
>>> > And is always on top of anything I run. Although I have dual monitors,
>>> > it always shows up on the left one.
>>> >
>>> > I think it pops up when I unintentionally trigger the HUD to pop up.
>>> > But honestly I have no idea.
>>> >
>>> > Any one else seeing this?
>>> >
>>> > jdo
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
>>> > Post to : unity-design@lists.launchpad.net
>>> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
>>> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Patrick Seemann
>
> launchpad: ~patrickseemann
> irc.freenode.net: patsee14
>
>
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>
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Re: [Unity-design] Ability to remove Spaces-Icon from launcher for my parents :)

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 15:24, Brandon Watkins  wrote:

> This video is a good example of what you descibe (elderly person getting
> confused after hitting the workspace switcher)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ltE_ekc8kE8
>
>
fascinating.
He calls the Workspaces "Windows", because they look like windows. They
don't look like Workspaces. The law of correspondence.

Wow!!!
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[Unity-design] Seperate launchers for "Contact List" and "Conversation"

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

For instant messaging via Telepathy, Unity uses the default frontend
offered by Empathy.
Empathy has 2 main types of windows:
* Contact List
* Conversation

Audio/Video conversations are improving, their windows represent a subtype
of Conversation window.
Hopefully enough, A/V conversations can sooner or later be incorporated
into the text-chat Conversation window, which would make Instant Messaging
and VoiP much simpler to conceive on a UI design level.

The Unity Launcher for Empathy is curretly misleading.
Empathy is a technology, more like a frontend for 2  applications:
1) Live Contact List
2) Instant Conversation Dialog

The Launcher itself is shaped as a speech bubble, which indicates something
related to chat..
This does not indicate, that i'm really about to open a Contact List.
Confusing.

I'd suggest the following:
Offer seperate Launchers for Contact List and Conversation Windows
respectively.
The Conversation Window Launcher icon will be that friendly chat-bubble,
while the Contact List Launcher icon will be a symbolic illustration
indicating "Contacts", or perhaps a transitional solution:
the Telepathy logo itself.

greetz ;)
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Re: [Unity-design] Drag and Drop with Unity Launcher

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

i think this fixes level one of the problem.
level two is that we can't really decide anymore HOW to let the receiving
application open the object i'm dragging "into" it.

this thread contains much of what i'm whining about:
https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/msg07341.html

Unity broke that possibility. The main problem is, that what once used to
be a destination window with all it's "areas", "zones" and perhaps even
"fields" during a drag and drop operation is reduced to a simple launcher
button, which doesn't nearly indicate  WHAT it will do upon release.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:57 AM, Andrea Azzarone wrote:

> WIP: https://code.launchpad.net/~andyrock/unity/fix-880798/+merge/103389
>
> 2012/4/25 Mark Shuttleworth :
> >
> > Yes, we should definitely fix the ability to drag to any window via the
> > launcher.
> >
> >
> > --
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> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Andrea Azzarone
> http://launchpad.net/~andyrock
> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndreaAzzarone
>
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Re: [Unity-design] [Ayatana] Compiz close-buttons on expose

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

an old thread, yes, please don't lynch me for bumping it now...

On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 1:52 AM, Mark Shuttleworth  wrote:

>
> For completeness on this thread, I'd like to say:
>
>  - yes, we should show a close button on window previews in our spreads
>  - it should only be the close button, none of the other window controls
> are relevant
>  - it should only appear on mouse proximity (fallback - mouseover,
> prefer - fade-in with proximity like the notify-osd proximity effects)
>  - it should be full-sized, not scaled, of course :-)
>
> Sam, is that sufficient guidance, or would a mockup help?
>
> Mark
>

i know Sam has been having his hands full with probably more crucial stuff.
Triage can be harder than one might think.

That's why i'm raising this thread, because i think that this point has
been forgotten for too long.
I am completely helpless without a middle mouse button, and my new Logitech
K400 is too nice to be blamed.

Even an ugly close button, even on the top right, i wouldn't complain about.
Only that there is no way to close a window when in preview / expose /
compiz scale / window picker mode.. is a very basic thing we shouldn't be
waiting for for so long now.

Wasn't this one of these "low hanging fruits" ?

regards
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Re: [Unity-design] Files

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

I disagree.

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Brandon Watkins  wrote:

> Yeah, naming it something like "File Manager" is far clearer. Its a simple
> name that explains what it does, and its easy for a user to understand.


If what you have in mind is a program, then "Files Program" or "File
Manager" would probably help you with your individual technology-focused
point of view.
But if what you expect is more closely aligned with physical reality, then
the place to go would logically be "Files" when you want to deal with files.

"Files" in this sense stands for a conceptual represantation of finite-size
content objects.
A particular, gradually also aging type of model we use or "used to use" to
represent once predominant objects of structured information.

Nowadays i can see that the predominant objects we are into are documents,
videos, sounds, photos, emails, messages conversations and streams.
The "File" metaphor is a deprecated concept of data representation, in my
modest opinion.

We even talk about Apps where people used to say "program".
So approaching this topic with the "Beginners Mind" would help greatly, i
am convinced.





>
>
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas 
> wrote:
>
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> cmaglothin wrote on 20/07/12 05:51:
>> > ...
>> >
>> > Not to detract from current conversation, but how is calling an
>> > app that deals solely with files by the name Files bad?
>>
>> "Where do I go to organize my files?"
>> "Files."
>> "Yes, my files. Where do I go to do that?"
>> "You go to Files."
>> "Yes, that's what I want to know, how I can do that."
>> "You open Files."
>> "Yeah, that's what I want to do."
>> "And I'm telling you."
>> "Well, go on then. How do I get to my files?"
>> "You launch Files."
>> "Well, not necessarily. Maybe I just want to rename them."
>> "You can do that too."
>> "So where do I do it?"
>> "You do it in Files."
>> "I mean, what's the name of the program?"
>> "No, Files is the name of the program."
>> "What's the name of the program?"
>> "Files is."
>> "Files is what?"
>> "FILES IS THE NAME OF THE PROGRAM."
>> "Okay, calm down, I just asked a question. Show me a little empathy."
>> "Oh, no, that's our chat program."
>>
>
Excellent anecdote, definitely valid in it's own way, from it's own point
of view.
In this sensitive cause otoh i find it more entertaining than enlightening.
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Re: [Unity-design] Files

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

Hi brandon,

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Brandon Watkins  wrote:

> As someone that works in tech support, his anecdote is painfully accurate
> and a valid reason that naming something just "files" can certainly up
> being so simple that its actually *more confusing*. :)
>
> Some might call naming it files "simple", I think its just overly vague,
> and being vague leads to confusion.
>

I think you have a strong point here. ;)
In defense of the "simple" formulation i'd like to add, that it is also
concise and perfectly coherent with the type of content it represents on
metaphorical level.
OTOH, at second thought, Files & Folders sounds more accurate to me.

I'll let this sink in.

Thank you for your ideas, i think you both helped me shape a more solid
understanding of this deceivingly simple matter.
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Re: [Unity-design] [Ayatana] Compiz close-buttons on expose

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 5:01 PM, Brandon Watkins  wrote:

> That looks very nice, I'd love to see those mockups come to fruition in
> 12.10.



yes.
i don't know about "new window" or about the concepts involving the default
middle click action.. disputable.
but the rigid integration of window spreads and workspace expose give the
whole experience a substance it has been lacking since a long time.
Unity will mature with this design, i'm sure.

This is an extremely strong basis to build upon, if it comes to getting
implemented!
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