Re: [techtalk] message to all
Wow- On the list 12 hours and a ton of email. Even a good flame war from someone who must be having trouble logging in today. After reading the rules it said "guys" are welcome. I wanted to say hello and confess my love for Linux, yet working as a asp developer on a MS based web system. I was looking for a list that will not flame me if I ask a good question--in other words, users who working with the system and helping each other out. Intelligent conversation. So, with that in mind, if guys are not allowed, please tell me know and I will leave peacefully. Otherwise, my brief introduction and hope to enjoy the conversation. I am a former radio dj turned computer programmer. I cut my teeth on trs-dos and later system v. I have been using unix since 1989 and Linux since 1995. Like I mentioned, I actually program in asp for a MS based web system, but have a Sun box next to me running Mandrake Corporate Server. As I tell my boss, when it is time to do some real work, I use Linux. With that intro, I say hello again, drop by my email and say hello back when you get a chance. -Scott ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
[techtalk] Java
I work for an MS all the time shop. Win 2K Server, SQL 2000 Server, etc. Our clients all have MS set-up at their site. I am doing a web based application in all asp and just got "caught" using PHP. I was redirecting traffic to a Linux server I have running Apache and PHP and would do some processing there and then redirect back. I am thinking of doing some of the work in Java. Since my experience with Java is limited, has anyone else used Java heavily for web based applications? -Scott ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] Java
At 02:40 PM 5/17/2001 +0100, James Sutherland wrote: >Have you tried running Apache+PHP on a Win2k box? Is the constraint that >you must be using Win2k, or that you must be "all-MS"?? If the former, >running Apache+PHP on Win2k would be a nice non-proprietary solution. I have run the cgi version of PHP on IIS 4 & 5, my concern and maybe this has been solved, but the front end piece of this software is client/server and I am calling a lot of their stored procedures and sql server functions. Can PHP can call the stored procedures and functions? If it can, consider the conversion done! >I haven't tried any server-side stuff in Java, but that would also be a >good way to stop your clients being so locked in to MS... A lot of clients are concerned with the new MS license policy and this might be a nice way to help. -Scott ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] window manager preference?
>On Thursday 17 May 2001 04:48 am, you wrote: > > i was just curious what the window manager of choice is on this list :) .. Depends on the distribution. I am just trying SUSE for the first time and they seem to favor KDE, as does the Mandrake versions I have tried. Red Hat seems to favor Gnome. I guess Solaris is switching to Gnome this year as well. I feel comfortable with KDE the most, why? I guess it just feels warm to me and I have no trouble finding my way around. In addition, Quanta+, the web developer program runs best on KDE. Anyone try the now defunct Eazel? -sap ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] Red Hat, Quanta+, Bluefish (was: window manager preference?)
At 11:03 AM 5/17/2001 -0400, Caitlyn Martin wrote: >Yes, but they give you the choice of KDE or Gnome at install. You can >install both, but choose either as your default. I chose KDE and had no >problems, other than an overwhelming need to rearrange their menus. Mandrake >is much better at subdividing the menus and making it so you can actually >find things. They do give you a choice, but in most of their documentation they refer to Gnome, but I have run both with no trouble on RH 7. I think on 6.2 you had to go out of your way to install, can not remember. I like the KDE setup in Mandrake 7.2 and now that I am trying SUSE, the KDE is nice, still experimenting though. You know, I run KDE but I prefer Bluefish for my web development tool. More >features, more cheats, or so it seems to me. I was surprised when Red Hat >failed to include either Bluefish or SCREEM (the two GTKish or Gnomish web >dev tools) in 7.1, but decided to include Quanta+ on the PowerTools CD. >Pretty weird if they're favoring Gnome. Anyway, the latest Bluefish and >SCREEM RPMs work fine on Red Hat 7.1. I have not played with Bluefish in about 8 months. The last time I used it was under Solaris, maybe I should download it today :) -sap ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] Java
Now, my question would be, I know I can run select statements on the data, the problem is the sql guys here write a ton of stored procedures and I need to call them instead to get my info. The asp code is very ugly. Has anyone run into this with PHP? I can send asp examples if that helps. -sap :feeling stupid today, must be the weather, yeah, that's it ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] (dumb) Solaris Q
Nicole- My experience with Solaris is on the Sparc machine, I assume PC is the same, but you have to choose No DNS during install, then add it after the machine is up. Thinking..there is a file called..thinking again.. You know what, let me check my Solaris book at home and I will email when I have it. Regardless, I remember assigning an address to the box as DHCP did not work for me, but DHCP was coming from NT. -sap At 09:42 AM 5/17/2001 -0700, Nicole Zimmerman wrote: >I know this isn't a linux question, but this is one of the few places I >feel safe asking those silly questions :o) > >I installed Solaris (8, the x86 version) on a box at work. I have unix >experience and loads of linux experience, but none specifically with >administering a Solaris box. I am having a networking issue. > >On the install, it asked if I'd like to use DHCP networking -- I said yes. >When asked what kind of name services I'd like to use, I chose DNS and >entered my LAN's DNS sever (for local name resolution and sending things >to the outside world). In the install, it told me they were not correct (I >assume by trying to resolve something), but I moved on (these DNS' work on >every other machine on the LAN, but they are all linux or windows). When >the install finished, no, it couldn't resolve anything using the DNS >entries that work everywhere else. SO I tried going into my >/etc/resolv.conf and changing it to the "old" DNS server, with only >outside-world name resolution. This didn't work either. > >Our network is set up with a DHCP server on 192.168.1.2. This is also a >DNS, as is 192.168.168.2 (or so the DHCP server sends on to all other >machines). The machine in question can get an IP and it can ping things >directly by their IP (outside or inside of the LAN), it just can't >resolve. The one machine that is static and using the external DNS (other >than the Solaris box) can ping and resolve (just not the local name >resolution, obvoiusly). > >There aren't any typos in the resolv.conf, I had my husband check :o) > >So, my questions: >Is there something I have to do after I change the name servers in the >resolv.conf to make the OS "aware" of these changes? This does not seem >right to me, but if it fixes the problem, right on. > >Why are the DNS' not grabbed from the DHCP server? > >Would using a static IP rather than using the DHCP server "fix" anything? > >and of course, why isn't it working!?? :o) > >Network wouldn't be such a big deal but looking at CDE in 640x480x256 is >tough and I need network to download something better (this is an i810 >on-board video machine that generally does not play well with others). I >am thinking it is a DUH problem, but I am all DUHed out for the week (and >it's only Thursday!). > >thanks, >-nicole > > >___ >techtalk mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
[techtalk] Internet Connection Sharing
Hi! I was using Mandrake 7.2 for Internet Connection on my home PC's. They are sharing a modem there since I can not get DSL or cable yet. I had to convert the machine to Win 2K for work reasons and I am using the Internet Connection Sharing built into Win 2K and in a word--it sucks. I want to go back to Linux to do the job. Has anyone set this up -without- the Mandrake wizard? Thanks. -sap ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] desktops and window managers?
Many thanks Dan! I am more awake after reading that! Bravo! At 01:07 PM 5/17/2001 -0500, Daniel Manrique wrote: >Damn :) > >Tis a pretty long rant, hope i don't get everyone snoring here. > >well, in the beginning there was X. X by itself basically provides a way >for a server to communicate with clients. The clients tell the server >"draw a pixel here" and the server handles actually displaying that pixel >on-screen. The interesting part here is that the clients and the server >need not be in the same computer. This is one of the niceties of X. > >However the facilities X as such provides are pretty spartan. draw lines, >pixels, write text on-screen. A client usually works on a rectangular area >on the screen, which is called a window, and specifies all those drawing >operations relative to its window. When a client starts, it requests a >window and the servers gives you a window to work. > >Here's the first concept you were asking about. X by itself only assigns a >rectangular area on the screen for each client. It has no way of >controlling that area; say, moving it, resizing it, or closing the client. >That's where the window manager comes to the rescue. > >"The window manager in X is just another client -- it is not part of the X >window system, although it enjoys special privileges -- and so there is no >single window manager; instead, there are many, which support different >ways for the user to interact with windows and different styles of window >layout, decoration, and keyboard and colormap focus." > >So, first, the Window Manager gives us a way to manipulate windows >themselves. It's the window manager's responsibility to draw a nice frame >and titlebar in each window; actually do something when you drag the >titlebar, or resize the window, or press the "close" button. > >That's a window manager's most basic functionality. However, most window >managers provide functionality like a nice menu for starting applications. >The problem here is that, for most window managers, configuring this menu >is a complicated task. > >there are, of course, a lot of window managers, because since the window >manager is an external component, it's (relatively) easy to write one >according to your preferences, how you want windows to look, how you want >them to behave, and so on. > >Let's focus on the client programs for a moment. Imagine you wanted to >write a client program from scratch, using only the facilities provided by >X. You'd quickly find that Xlib is pretty spartan, and that doing things >like putting buttons on screen, text, or nice controls for the users, is >terribly complicated. > >Luckily, someone else went to the trouble of programming these controls >and giving them to us in a usable form; a library. These controls are >called "widgets" and of course, the library is a "widget library". Then I >just have to call a function from this library with some parameters and >have a button on-screen. > >There are many widget libraries, each according to the author's >preferences in aspect, behavior, and API (application program >interface). Among these are the Athena widgets, Motif, GTK, Qt and so on. > >Here's another question answered. Motif is a widget library. It gives you >facilities for placing buttons, menus and other controls on screen. Motif >originated as the OSF's preferred toolkit. It's now not very widely used >in the free software world, because there are other toolkits, which are >free and possibly less bloated than Motif (the famous "Bloatif has been >zorched" quote, uttered by the guys who wrote the GIMP, when they switched >to Gtk, is a testament to this). > >Let's stop for a moment and put together what we have so far. We have our >client-server graphic system (X). We have several window managers which >manage our client programs; and we have several toolkits which define the >look and feel of our client programs per se. > >As you can see here, a user can have any of several different window >managers. The user can also have several clients, which aren't necessarily >written using the same toolkit. So at any given time I can have six or >seven apps, all looking different and behaving different. This creates a >mess because behavior between the apps is not consistent. If you've ever >used a program written with the Athena widgets, you'll notice it's not too >similar to something written using Gtk. And you'll also remember it's a >mess using all these apps which look so different. This basically negates >the advantage of using a GUI environment in the first place. > >There are other problems here. The way of launching programs varies from >one window manager to the next. Some have a nice menu for launching apps; >others dont, and they expect you to open an xterm and launch all your apps >by invoking the commands. Again, there's no standarization here so it >becomes a mess. > >Finally, there are niceties you expect from a GUI environment which our >scheme hasn't covered. Things like a c
Re: [techtalk] Internet Connection Sharing
I tried following the HOWTO verbatim on my Ultra Sparc running Mandrake Corporate Server and no luck. I was using my lap top running Win 2k to test it. The lap top was not able to get out on the net. I will play with it some more and let you know. At 07:42 PM 5/17/2001 -0400, you wrote: That HOWTO was updated in November of 2000. If you have any trouble and the HOWTO doesn't help you, feel free to file that as a bug report with the author and/or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] Internet Connection Sharing
Thanks for the offer, getting off the Win 2K box for ICS has become my weekend project. It is just not reliable. I was yelling at my ISP for bad performance, they told me to reboot the Win 2K box and the speed was back for a whopping 12 hours. So, needless to say I want to get back over the using Linux for the task. In answer to your question, I am using ipchains on Mandrake Corporate Server on an Ultra Sparc. -sap On Thu, 17 May 2001, coldfire wrote: > well, i particularly enjoy networking stuff ... so if you need any help, > feel free to post and i'd love to help out as i'm sure others would too :) > quick question .. are you using ipfwadm, ipchains, or iptables? > > abe > > On Thu, 17 May 2001, Scott wrote: > > > I tried following the HOWTO verbatim on my Ultra Sparc running Mandrake > > Corporate Server and no luck. I was using my lap top running Win 2k to test > > it. The lap top was not able to get out on the net. I will play with it some > > more and let you know. > > > > > > At 07:42 PM 5/17/2001 -0400, you wrote: > > That HOWTO was updated in November of 2000. If you have any trouble > > and the HOWTO doesn't help you, feel free to file that as a bug report > > with the author and/or [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > ___ > > techtalk mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk > > > > > ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
[techtalk] Feel good
If you are running Linux or anything other than Win 2K this morning, feel good about your choice. This is an email thread on the Win2K bug track email list this morning. NOTE: before applying Windows 2000 SP2, our system (W2K DC running Exchg2K & MS Proxy Client 2.0) ran FLAWLESSLY for months. Symptoms: When applying Windows 2000 SP2 to the Windows 2000 SP1 (+ PSP) DC, DNS errors appeared, AD tools (at server) became unavailable, and Exchange 2000 would not start. Cause: After three days of troubleshooting, I narrowed the problem down to MS Proxy Client 2.0 and Service Dependencies referring to NTLMSSP. If ANY, and I mean "ANY", service makes reference to: DependOnService: NTLMSSP DNS bombs and Exchange 2000 refuses to start. Removing "DependOnService: NTLMSSP" from ALL Services making references to it, allows both DNS and Exchange 2000 to START, but internet access is NOT available for ports 25 &110 (Wspcfg.ini) - thus, prevents SMTP & POP3 from functioning. Resolution: Had to do a "Complete System Restore" in order to get system back to it's original (SP1) state. Anyone else encountering similar problems? ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] Feel good
PS: I was hoping to get a lot of stuff done this weekend on my Linux Internet Connection Sharing machine, but instead Win 2K Service Pack #2 has managed to kill the ASP engine I work with and all SQL Server connections. At 09:46 AM 5/18/2001 -0400, Scott wrote: >If you are running Linux or anything other than Win 2K this morning, feel >good about your choice. This is an email thread on the Win2K bug track >email list this morning. > > > >NOTE: before applying Windows 2000 SP2, our system (W2K DC running Exchg2K & >MS Proxy Client 2.0) ran FLAWLESSLY for months. >Symptoms: >When applying Windows 2000 SP2 to the Windows 2000 SP1 (+ PSP) DC, DNS >errors appeared, AD tools (at server) became unavailable, and Exchange 2000 >would not start. >Cause: >After three days of troubleshooting, I narrowed the problem down to MS Proxy >Client 2.0 and Service Dependencies referring to NTLMSSP. If ANY, and I mean >"ANY", service makes reference to: >DependOnService: NTLMSSP >DNS bombs and Exchange 2000 refuses to start. >Removing "DependOnService: NTLMSSP" from ALL Services making references to >it, allows both DNS and Exchange 2000 to START, but internet access is NOT >available for ports 25 &110 (Wspcfg.ini) - thus, prevents SMTP & POP3 from >functioning. >Resolution: >Had to do a "Complete System Restore" in order to get system back to it's >original (SP1) state. >Anyone else encountering similar problems? > > >___ >techtalk mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] newbie
Welcome Sue-- At 12:01 PM 5/18/2001 -0700, Sue Jackson wrote: >I've been a PC user on Microsoft software for 12 years and I'm wanting to >make the switch to linux on my home pc. Ring the bell! >Here's the specifics on the box > >Pentium 200mhz >64 meg RAM >6 gig HD >33.6k data/fax modem >ethernet card >some kind of proprietary sound card I think the Mandrake distribution is best to get started, it is a total GUI install and usually pick's up the most hardware. 6 gig drive might be a tight install, so you might want to be careful on what you choose to install. The current version is 7.2, but 8.0 is available for download and should be in your local Best Buy by the end of May. In *most* cases it will detect your modem and nic cards, depends on the chipset of the sound card. The Compaq's I have worked with are usually using the ESS chipset and Mandrake will detect those. >I'll be looking for replacements for MS Office software (word, excel and a >relationship database), Publisher (page layout), Paint Shop Pro (graphics), >etc. Star Office 5.2 will be in the Mandrake 8.0 cd's. Gimp will serve you well on graphics. Do not know enough the db that comes with Star Office. There is a publisher program as well as KPublisher and other's. >Any help you can offer, resources on the web to read up, etc. are greatly >appreciated. Send your questions and everyone here seems willing to help out! -sap ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
[techtalk] My bad NT day
So, yesterday was not a good NT day for me. First off, the server that I develop on at work had Service Pack #2 installed on it Thursday. Friday morning and IIS and SQL Server stopped working. The machine can browse the web and that is about it. Can not see other machines in the network and is basically a glorified web browser at the moment. I also have a Win 2K machine at home doing Internet Connection Sharing on my 56k modem. I come home to find it hacked into. This machine is also running SP2 and all the MS security and hot fixes that apply. I run IIS on it for fun and the modem to share internet, that is it. They managed to break into the machine and do some damage. It is now in total safe mode-powered off. I set up Linux to do my internet connection sharing for now. Does anyone have experience using OpenBSD as a firewall? Or even, securing up a decent Linux box to share a modem connection and do firewall chores. Thanks, -sap ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] My bad NT day
Thanks for the thoughts. I used to use BSDI at an ISP I worked for and they now run FreeBSD. The box will not serve any other purpose, so I do not need X. This box will simply have a modem hanging off it to share the connection. I was able to use the Mandrake internet connection sharing wizard last night to get the machines back up. Anyone use this? Any thoughts on locking the box down? -sap On Sat, 19 May 2001, coldfire wrote: > i would urge you to pick a linux distribution and stear clear of bsd .. > but perhaps that's just because i'm a linux advocate and not bsd :) > regardless, setting up internet connection sharing with a firewall on a > linux box is fairly easy. just takes a little bit of reading to > familiarize yourself with how it all works, and how to get it done ;P ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
RE: [techtalk] My bad NT day
On Sat, 19 May 2001, Angela Nash wrote: > If the second box running SP2 was hacked, check your permissions. Sounds > like you have a configuration problem somewhere. I checked all the permissions on all files. I rescanned the event logs and it appears that the asp.dll file is corrupt. Still can not see the other boxes on the network. I will most likely restore it today to pre SP2 status. > We run OpenBSD as our firewall, and have for a while. It's easy to setup > and use and works very well. The syntax for configuring it is very easy. > Our OpenBSD system also handles our NAT translation. We have 32 public IPs > that we translate to 32 private IPs. It also runs Snort intrustion > detection, Apache for our web, and soon qmail for mail. I am not sure which route to go yet as all I am doing is sharing a 56k modem. Was running a web server and would like to again to screw around, but that is it. The machine will only do sharing and firewall. > The only other system I'd run as a firewall is Debian with a cron job set to > do an apt-get update/upgrade off the security server every night. But, if > you want a real hassle free system check out OpenBSD. Compare the number of > exploit fixes released for it compared to the Linux systems. They do a lot > of proactive work. I read on the OpenBSD site that they have gone 4 years without a hole in the default install. I have not used BSD in a few years, might take some getting used to again. Still considering. -sap ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
[techtalk] Mandrake 8.0
fyi-- Best Buy has Mandrake 8.0 on the shelf! $65.00 for the 7cd power pack. Here is my experience with it so far: The install took about 20 minutes. Very clean and very friendly. They did change the pick and choose software option somewhat, my verdict is still out on the change. They have bunched everything under workstation, then Servers, etc. The installed warns you when you choose any type of server like Apache. It tells that they have tried to make sure there are no holes, but the potential does exist. Upon reboot I had no network, but fired up the Mandrake wizard to discover it said I had two 3 Com cards. Then I started getting errors on the screen that the network failed. I grabbed another card and re-installed with the card and all is well. One note to Pine fans--it does not install and I could not find it in the software list on the second install. I just ran the Mandrake package manager and found it on the 2nd cd, why it does not install by default is beyond me. More to come as I test it the rest of the weekend. -sap ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
[techtalk] Harping on Win 2K
Sorry to bring this up, if you are not running Win 2K ignore this. But I did some more research on the hack attempt on my home server the other day and found some interesting articles on a mailing list. It appears that even if you have installed the security patches--if you install SP2 you have to go back and reinstall those patches for the OS and IIS5 as well. The guy talking about it was able to scan his registry and found that the security patches he installed pre SP2 were removed. If you are interested let me know. -sap ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] My bad NT day
On Sat, 19 May 2001, coldfire wrote: > i guess if it's your thing, you'll really stand by it ;P i have a friend > who's totally into FreeBSD, but i always here him complaining about lack > of documentation and lack of support for some of his hardware. maybe he's > just an idiot though :) It does come down to what you are most comfortable with. When I moved from BSDI to Linux I had a rough time dealing with /home/scott instead or /usr/var/shell/scott, but I was able to get it over it quickly. The bottom line is that we support each other and to improve the options that are available to us. I respect the BSD family as they have some great track records. I support the Linux family as the innovation is great, the stability is awesome and the fact it just works is tops for me. To quote ID4, "spread the word"! -sap ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
[techtalk] New way to stream audio
Tell me I am crazy, but I have been thinking of this idea for several weeks. A new way to stream audio on the web. Work's like this: 1)The master machine take's the input of the music, it would have to be a file based format, translating a line input would be hard at first. 2)The master server breaks the file into multiple frequency's and notes. It analyzes the music for repeats of sounds and extracts the unique sounds. 3)It create's a pattern for those sounds and notes. 4)Sends the pattern to the client, then the unique sound's for the smart client on the other end to piece back together. The server's would be beefed up Linux boxes and of course you would have to have a beefy client on the other end. I estimate the feed's would be about 5 minutes behind the actual time of the feed. Thoughts? -sap ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] Re: Linux-Mandrake
At 07:09 PM 5/24/2001 +0100, James Sutherland wrote: >8.0, updated a few days ago. I'm not blaming Mandrake for breaking Perl in >an update - Debian managed to break sendmail not too long ago, as Michelle >found; every distro breaks things occasionally. What I *AM* ditching >Mandrake for is replacing things like "vi" and "gcc" with stupid Perl >scripts which attempt to colour in the output, and break things in the >process! > >Nicer, I'll agree, but I'm not sure I can ever forgive them those stupid >Perl wrappers round everything... When I run "gcc", I want to be running >the GNU C Compiler, not some sort of colouring-in-script wrapped round it! Don't you think Mandrake has done some wonder's for the desktop though? While I feel like I am outgrowing it right now and want the comfort of the command line more than a wizard--there are benefits of setting things up the way they did. Heck, friends who would never consider Linux have changed their minds after using Mandrake. ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
[techtalk] Screen Savers
Not sure if any one on the list get's Tech TV, but they have a 90 minute call in geek show nightly called The Screen Savers. Last night they did a show from Austin and one of the segments was a tour of the University of Texas at Austin computer center. They showed off one of their main network machines. 132 processors, 5 tb of storage. They did a close-up of the monitor on the cluster and it was Debian. The guy asked if they ever considered running Windows and the Professor looked at him and laughed and said-never. The robotics lab is also running Linux, including their robots themselves. Now if I could convince the guys at work that it can handle anything! -sap ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] Re: Linux-Mandrake
At 09:33 AM 5/25/2001 -0400, Michelle Murrain wrote: >I think that Mandrake is great for Linux newbies. I think it's arguably the >best distro for newbies. But I think it's also easy to outgrow. I'm getting >to the point now where I'm feeling like I either want Debian or Slackware - >nothing else is remotely interesting to me at this point. For those out there with an extra machine (intel, amd or dreamcast) there is another new OS out there called NewOS. One of the kernel programmers from BeOS started this project. Check it out: http://www.newos.org/ -sap ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] scan or attempted break?
At 08:26 AM 5/25/2001 -0500, ktb wrote: >I was wondering if this is an attempt at break in or just a scan? This >person has run this on two separate occasions. Looks like they are >trying to do something to an NT server. Doesn't do them much good on a >Linux box;) > >oz:/var/log# grep /scripts/ httpd/* >httpd/access_log:128.242.217.204 - - [23/May/2001:22:46:40 -0400] "GET >/scripts/..%c0%af..%c0%af..%c0%af..%c0%af..%c0%af..%c0%af..%c0%af..%c0%af/ >winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c%20dir HTTP/1.0" 404 328 > >httpd/error_log:[Wed May 23 22:46:40 2001] [error] [client >128.242.217.204] File does not exist: /home/httpd/html/scripts/..À¯..À¯..À¯.. >À¯..À¯..À¯..À¯..À¯/winnt/system32/cmd.exe >Thanks, >kent Exact same thing I saw on my Win 2K box that was doing Internet Connection Sharing. It is a kiddie script running out there. My Win 2K box is now in safe mode--powered off. -sap ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] Re: Linux-Mandrake
At 08:54 AM 5/25/2001 -0500, piglet wrote: >I notice that no one ever mentions Corel as a newbie distroI'm >surrounded by RH folks, and I work on RH boxen at work, but it's always been >confusing to me. Now that I'm running linux on my normal workbox, I opted >to go with Corel because it seemed to be particularly user-friendly, >installs like a dream, and is Debian based, so that it *seems* to me that >when I outgrow Corel, shifting to straight Debian shouldn't be a drastic >move, perceptually. >Then again, I admit up front to being fairly clueless. I never had any luck with Corel. Mostly it was video card problems, despite the fact I had a supported card. There is nothing wrong with whatever flavor of Linux you prefer or are comfortable with--that is the idea, a fit for you instead of being FORCED into using something THEIR way. -sap ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
[techtalk] damn Windows
I tried, I really tried. I work in a 100% MS shop. I bagged my Linux distro recently in favor of Win 2K Server to keep up with what I was doing at work. I thought this way I will not spend time with Linux and spend more time with Win 2K to improve my work. Phew--I was wrong. I have wasted more time trying to get things running. So, this is part story, part question. I have a Win 2K box that has two modems attached to it. They both dial my ISP and do multi-link connections so I can get more than 56k. They are both USR modems and both are external. The problem is, I had to add them manually to Win 2K since it thinks they are standard modems. I dial my ISP and the second line kicks in to up the speed. If one of the lines drops I have to reboot the machine as Win 2K will NOT redial. They admit that in the docs. Once I reboot it wants to detect my USR modems again as standard, I let it do that then I go in and remove each one, manually add them back in. Then set-up the connection to my ISP again--they dial and I have connectivity until one line drops again. Question 1- Can Mandrake 8 do multi-link? Can it handle more than 2 modems? Question 2- Is it me or is the TCP/IP stack more solid in Linux? Case in point, my favorite Real Audio station--I tune it in and often fall a sleep with it on, the next morning it is still playing. I have YET to have that happen with Win 2K being the Internet Connection Sharing box. Any thoughts, send them my way and thanks for reading. -sap ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] damn Windows
At 02:28 PM 6/7/2001 -0400, you wrote: >I use realaudio quite a bit, and my Linux box runs it MUCH better. Not >only do I never lose my connections, but I get 3X the bandwidth. This >is vs. Win98, though, not Win2K. It makes a HUGE difference and I have tried it on Win 2K and 98. I also tried another experiment, running TCPDUMP on my nic card for 24 hours with Real Audio, FTP, Web, Fetchmail, etc all running, plus I had a constant ping to another machine and at the end I had 0% packets dropped by the new 2.4 kernel. I did try to add two modems to the Linux box last night, but I was using the wimp tools (Mandrake Control Panel) and it would only allow me to choose one modem and one port. Is there a better way to go about this for my multi-link experiment. tia -sap ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
[techtalk] Extreme Tech article
An interesting read on Extreme Tech talking about Linux and Win 2K and which is best for your needs. http://www.extremetech.com/article/0,2299,s%253D1027%2526a%253D2166,00.asp ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] Extreme Tech article
At 10:25 AM 6/12/2001 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Well... I suppose it's interesting if you like a pro-Microsoft bias and an >article that ignores mainly of the problems with running Windows and >ignores. For example, in the discussion of IIS vs. Apache, no mention of >security issues is made at all, an area where IIS has major problems. >Indeed, discussion of security are noticeably absent from the article. >When discussing journaling file systems (briefly), only xfs is mentioned. >IBM's JFS and Reiser FS are noticeably missing. In addition, kernel bloat >is mentioned as a serious problem with xfs, yet the fact that the system >requirements of Linux 2.4.x *with* xfs are still tiny compared to Windows >2000 Server is definitely not mentioned. I can go on and on, but >generally, this is only an interesting read if you like Microsoft FUD. >I am not saying that Linux is the right answer for everyone. It's not. I >am saying that this article won't help you make an informed choice. >Rather, it seems designed to generate a specific choice. My first read on it was they were rather open about some of the strength's of Linux in the conclusion, but as I read it more they seemed to say: "if you are a small business and can not really afford MS then you may be stuck with Linux". ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
[techtalk] why do I read this stuff
Why do I bother reading this stuff? Want Linux on your desktop? Nine reasons to forget about it By David Coursey, AnchorDesk June 11, 2001 9:00 PM PT URL: http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/stories/story/0,10738,2773365,00.html?chkpt=zdhpnews02 Linux is an important part of the computing landscape. Important because open standards matter. Important because it creates competition and a looming threat to Microsoft. Important because it gives a large number of geeks and wonks a religion to belong to--complete with a patriarch. Religion is a good thing, I believe, right up to the moment it makes a fool out of you. And a good many Linux what's the term? Proponents? Advocates? No, zealots!--yes, a good many Linux zealots make fools of themselves. I don't have Ninety-Five Theses to nail to the Wittenberg Door, as Martin Luther did, but I take my reformation work where I can find it. So here are some ideas for reforming people's wrong-headed notions of Linux: Linux will never become common as a desktop operating system, and no amount of believing will change that. It only makes adherents look stupid. Why? Because Linux is too complex, and there isn't enough money to make it worth someone's time to build a really great environment for desktop apps. And then software companies would need to build applications, but how large a market is there? Yes, chicken-and-egg, but that stops many things, not just desktop Linux. If client-side Java had lived up to the promise of "write once, run anywhere" then Linux would have a bigger, but hardly fighting, chance of unseating desktop Windows. Linux, desktop especially but also server, is not a major threat to Microsoft. But it is enough of a threat to make Microsoft notice, and that is usually a good thing. Microsoft will be on the defensive, at least a little, and that gives customers some leverage they don't otherwise enjoy. I don't have numbers to support this, but Linux may be a bigger threat to various flavors of UNIX than it is to Microsoft server operating systems. There's at least a 50/50 probability that Linux will become Balkanized just as UNIX was. There will be multiple, semi-compatible versions of Unix that seem to be one operating system, right up until you try to install applications. Surprise! Not the Solaris version? Sorry! People talk about how wonderful it is that Linux is free. But over the life of a server, the operating system is such a small part of the cost that it gets lost in the other soft- and hard-dollar expenses. And you'd think systems offering the lowest total cost-of-ownership would sell better than they usually do. Apple, for many years, claimed a big TCO lead over Windows. But did it help? Big hardware companies may yet co-opt Linux: Here's an operating system they can load, create add-ons for, and then sell support contracts for. Add some minor barriers to switching to other platforms and operating systems--either Microsoft or another Linux--and you might have something. Isn't this how Sun became King of Unix? Linux is a fine server operating system Use it with my blessing, but don't let it define you, your IS shop, or your company. And don't select Linux just because you hate Microsoft. That isn't good enough reason to pick an operating system. Linux will be a common operating system in places where we don't see an operating system--like home information and entertainment appliances. Want Linux? Buy a TiVo digital video recorder. Linux makes great sense as an embedded OS, but faces much competition. Still, I am betting most people will have some sort of Linux-powered device in the lives sometime in the next 5 years or so. Luther and his followers were excommunicated for their beliefs. I don't face anything nearly as drastic as that--but I know there are many in the Linux cult ready to proclaim me a heretic, or worse. For my part, I suppose I'm happy there are people who define their lives by what operating system they use--if only because they're fun to watch. But I am even happier that I'm not one of them. ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] why do I read this stuff
>At 04:58 PM 6/12/2001 -0400, Michael Carson wrote: >I was thinking the same thing, at first, but then I realized the usefullness of this article - now we know Mr. Coursey's prejudices, and >can esteem his pronouncements accordingly, with reference to our own. The idea was not to spread MS FUD to this list or cry that the world is falling down, it was more to read his article and consider his technical or lack of technical arguments against Linux. Perhaps a few people will email him and correct him on a few points, maybe his readership is down and he needs attention, who knows? But reading stuff like this only help's confirm to me anyway that people who write these articles really should not be in that line of work. Consider the site it is housed on--ZD, the very same site that a few weeks ago had an article on how PHP was not ready for the enterprise. Guess the author never took the time to look at the page his article was displayed on, the extension was .php. I will stop sending those articles here, but do think it deserve's a good look if you have the time. -Scott ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
[techtalk] Fw: XWindows on a Compaq LTE5300
-Original Message- From: Kintar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sunday, October 10, 1999 2:40 PM Subject: XWindows on a Compaq LTE5300 >I'm having difficulty setting up X on a Compaq LTE 5300 laptop. The >XConfigurator finds PCI entry CL 7543 and recommends the SVGA drivers, >but when I get it set up, X complains about a problem starting the >driver. Has anyone ever had X set up on this type of machine before? I >would appreciate any help that can be given, even if it's just general >laptop setup tips. > >-- Kintar > >P.S. I'm not really certain what kind of video card is in the machine. >I /believe/ it is an Opti Viper, but I can't find the bloody specs on >this machine ANYWHERE. > >-- >Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum >immane mittam. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
[techtalk] Fw: Modprobe soundcore
- Original Message - From: Sunnanvind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 12:21 PM Subject: Modprobe soundcore Dear all; I want to get sound running on my notebook computer, and I found this page at http://people.redhat.com/zab/maestro/ that had a file I downloaded, and the following instructions: tar -zxf ~/maestro-*.tar.gz cd maestro-* modprobe soundcore (maybe) make install That "maybe" was well needed, I guess, since I get a 'command not found' when I do modprobe. Probably because I have red hat? I don't know anything about linux. Sunnan -- http://home.swipnet.se/sunnanvind Hjärtan och blomster etc etc [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
[techtalk] TeX Resources?
Hi all, Hoping to be able to complete reports and the like using vi instead of some $DIETY-forsaken word processing software, I've just taken the dive into learning TeX. (Debugging your philosophy paper is a novel experience...!) I've read a few online HOWTO-type documents, but now I'm looking at perhaps picking up a more-or-less comprehensive dead-tree reference. Has anyone read the TeXBook or other TeX guides? What would you recommend? Thanks, Rick -- Mike: I swear, you must think you're some kind of god. Pitr: God, root, what is difference? :User Friendly ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] Pine and new mail
On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 11:40:32AM -0500, Jason wrote: > My Pine mailbox doesn't seem to refresh itself as it should, or at least > as I'd like it to. Frequently I'll have a terminal window open with Pine > running, showing no messages in my inbox for several minutes, and then > when I quit to the command prompt it will say "kept single message." As an interim fix - if I recall correctly, doing a screen redraw (control-L) when you are on the `inbox' screen should make it grab any new mail in addition to redrawing the screen. (I never did get around to configuring pine's subleties...) Rick -- Mike: I swear, you must think you're some kind of god. Pitr: God, root, what is difference? :User Friendly ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] Telnet trouble with RH7.0
On Sun, Mar 11, 2001 at 01:54:37PM +, Conor Daly wrote: > FIXED IT! Did an > > rpm -ivh telnet-server-0.17-i386.rpm > > UURRGH! Ever feel stupid? At the same time, sometimes this is like racking your brains for hours over why your car won't start. You're rooting about under the hood, checking everything, fearing an expensive repair job, when, on a lark, you look at the fuel tank and find it empty. You feel stupid, but it's kind of exhilarating, at the same time. =) Rick -- Never do anything against conscience, even if the state demands it. :Albert Einstein ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] Printing to Deskjet printer
(Conor Daly:) > > > Running an hp Deskjet 550C on an lpt port and an HP Deskjet 610C on a HP > JetDirect print server with rhs-printfilters-1.63-1 ... > The RedHat printtool program takes care of all the editing and spool > dir files but they can be done by hand. I can send these if you > wish. Al you *really* need is rhs-printfilters which was up to > 1.81-1 when last I looked. Don't know where to get it but I can > send you the (25k) tarball if you're interested. Now whether it'll > work for another distro I don't know but I'd say it's likely. I think that debian has spoiled me. I've got an HP Deskjet 670C and all I did to get things up and running happily is install the package apsfilter (5.1.4-1). IIRC there was a minimum of tweaking involved (it was a long time ago.) Now all I have to do to print almost anything is `lpr filename'. It handles both DOS and *nix text, Postscript, and DVIs, amongst other things; just send 'em straight to the printer. Rick -- PANTHEISM, n. The doctrine that everything is God, in contradistinction to the doctrine that God is everything. :Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" (1911) ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] Gnome Panel items and TCP ports
> A port scan conducted during my login session show that different > applets on the control panel use different ports on the system. I > have blocked these ports using ipchains. The bigger problem is, on a > different login session, the applets were using different ports. Is > this normal behaviour of the GNOME applets? Are the applets listening, or "dialing out"? I'm not very familiar with Gnome, but the standard behavior of most internet applications that don't need to listen on a certain port is that they'll pick some random non-priviledged port (port # > 1024) to do their connections. That doesn't sound very clear. Say, on your machine, you're webserver. Using a browser on the same machine, you request a few pages. The connections will go something like (Web browser) (Web server) machine.domain.net:1033 -> machine.domain.net:80 machine.domain.net:1034 -> machine.domain.net:80 machine.domain.net:1035 -> machine.domain.net:80 Of course, if the applets are supposed to be *listening* on a certain port, I'm right out to lunch. I don't know about the Gnome applets, but sysadmins at a place I used to work at told me that ICQ, in particular, was exceedingly good at finding out what ports were open in your firewall and using them. Rick -- key CF8F8A75 / print C5C1 F87D 5056 D2C0 D5CE D58F 970F 04D1 CF8F 8A75 The quest for truth died with the birth of the net. Now we have all the truth we could ever want. The new quest is how to make sense of all this damned truth cluttering my terminal. :Alex ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] HD Noises (was: problems with disk IBM 73 Gb)
(ktb:) > > The noise your hearing "like a sewing machine" is probably just e2fsck > doing it's job. If you were hearing "clunks" that would be a dead > drive. While we're on the arcane subject of being able to interpret and diagnose various hard drive sounds, I'm told that a HD that sounds like a little chainsaw as it spins is one that's on its way out. I wonder if this is bearings starting to wear, fine dust getting into the sealed internals, ...? Rick -- key CF8F8A75 / print C5C1 F87D 5056 D2C0 D5CE D58F 970F 04D1 CF8F 8A75 Beggars get handouts before philosophers because people have some idea of what it's like to be blind and lame. :Diogenes ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] Re: REJECT packet is logged as DENY....
(Subba Rao:) > Mar 18 18:39:48 pasta kernel: Packet log: input DENY eth2 PROTO=6 > 24.24.63.86:62779 10.23.86.125:113 L=60 S=0x00 I=26383 F=0x4000 > T=52 SYN (#11) ^^ If I surmise correctly, this (#11) should be the number of the rule that's causing the packet to be dropped on the floor. My first intuition would be to check and make sure that the packets aren't hitting a DENY rule early in the chain, and getting dropped before they're checked against the REJECT rule further down. I would check it out with an `ipchains --line-numbers -L input' and see what rule #11 is. > Mar 18 18:39:48 pasta kernel: ... ^ =) Rick -- key CF8F8A75 / print C5C1 F87D 5056 D2C0 D5CE D58F 970F 04D1 CF8F 8A75 Nemo Me Impune Lacessit. (No One Shall Touch Me with Impunity.) :Scottish Motto ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] Re: REJECT packet is logged as DENY....
(Subba Rao:) > > > >> Mar 18 18:39:48 pasta kernel: Packet log: input DENY eth2 PROTO=6 > >> 24.24.63.86:62779 10.23.86.125:113 L=60 S=0x00 I=26383 F=0x4000 > >> T=52 SYN (#11) (coldfire:) > if the kernel's logging it .. i'm assuming it's a 2.4.x kernel, and > therfore this person better be using iptables ;P Subba didn't mention what kernel zie was running, but I've still got 2.2.17, and my logfiles look the same: shadow> ./packets Mar 19 08:01:16 shadowspar kernel: Packet log: input - ppp0 PROTO=6 61.6.130.145:4480 64.230.122.92:1080 L=48 S=0x00 I=8854 F=0x4000 T=113 SYN (#16) Mar 19 08:32:22 shadowspar kernel: Packet log: input DENY ppp0 PROTO=6 200.202.38.27:2336 64.230.122.92:111 L=60 S=0x00 I=61932 F=0x4000 T=45 SYN (#14) Mar 19 09:37:52 shadowspar kernel: Packet log: input - ppp0 PROTO=6 195.92.249.252:2573 64.230.122.92:25 L=60 S=0x00 I=56226 F=0x4000 T=37 SYN (#16) shadow> uname -a Linux shadowspar 2.2.17 #1 Fri Feb 9 09:58:34 EST 2001 i586 unknown I am told that iptables is most groovy, but I haven't had any experience with it yet... Rick -- key CF8F8A75 / print C5C1 F87D 5056 D2C0 D5CE D58F 970F 04D1 CF8F 8A75 There is no expedient to which man will not resort to avoid the real labour of thinking. :Thomas Edison ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] Re: REJECT packet is logged as DENY....
(Conor Daly:) > Rick Scott thought: > > Subba didn't mention what kernel zie was running, but I've still > > got 2.2.17, and my logfiles look the same: > > > > shadow> ./packets > ^ > This "packets". A script yes? Could you post/mail? Not so much a script; more like "an act of laziness in thirty-four characters." =) shadow> cat packets grep "Packet log" /var/log/syslog > Conor Daly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Domestic Sysadmin :-) Contrast wild sysadmin; reference http://www.ai.mit.edu/lab/sysadmin/welcome.html =) Rick -- key CF8F8A75 / print C5C1 F87D 5056 D2C0 D5CE D58F 970F 04D1 CF8F 8A75 It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. :Albert Einstein ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] Re: Odd firewall outputs (cont)
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 07:31:04PM -0500, Angela Nash wrote: > If your connection is on cable or DSL, expect to get port scanned > every few minutes. You'll fill up your firewall logs very fast. As Clifto said when I posted about this in news.admin.net-abuse.email, `Raise the drawbridge and man the turrets.' I find that I rarely get a full portscan, but I often have people taking a few stabs at ports 23(telnet) and 53(bind). There also are a lot of connection attempts to random file-sharing type ports, presumably due to the fact that I'm on a dynamic IP address setup. Rick -- key CF8F8A75 / print C5C1 F87D 5056 D2C0 D5CE D58F 970F 04D1 CF8F 8A75 War is hell. Next question, please. :NBC's Linda Vester on NATO's PR ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
Re: [techtalk] This talk of N-ary trees and other things...
(Makiko Itoh:)
> ...I've found that the discipline involved in learning another human
> language is very helpful for programming. My first language is
> Japanese and I learned English early, and have since tackled French
> and German, and I can almost feel the same part of my brain working
> when I'm trying to learn Java for instance.
(Four languages - good on ya!)
Another thing that I think is helpful is that a new language
teaches you to conceptualize in different ways, which gives
you different perspectives on the same problem. For instance,
there are a goodly number of concepts in Japanese that don't
really translate into, say, English; and at least not with the
same subtleties. (I think that all languages have these
untranslateable bits, and that they really are a big part of what
makes the language distinct.)
Some of these concepts are packaged in words; others in bits
of syntax or other constructions. (My Japanese is terribly
rusty, and I'm having some trouble coming up with examples...
that, and please forgive/correct the grammar =) One of the ones that
pops into mind is the word /tsumori/, which kind of maps to some
combination of {thought, mindset, intention} in English (IMO).
It lets you say something like /Bifteki o tabeta tsumori de
ginko ni okane o haita./, which doesn't really say "I put my money
into the bank with the intention of eating a steak" as it appears at
first glance -- it's more of "(I wanted to spend money on a
steak, but) I imagined I had eaten a steak and put my money in the
bank (instead)."
Another nifty example is /wakaru/, "understand", but in
Japanese it's more in the sense of "become clear" in that
*the thing that is being understood* does /wakaru/, not the
thing trying to do the understanding. (Usually objects or
ideas do /wakaru/, "become clear", and if we are in the
vicinity, they become clear to us.)
Another fundamental & cool constructions that comes to mind
is the one you use when someone does something for someone
else, /Hon o yonde agemashita/ - "I gave him my reading of the
book" -> "I read the book for him." It's kind of like you
give actions to people just like physical objects.
(At least, this is my perspective...I think that this has helped
me conceptualize programming abstractions that replace quantities
with functions much more easily.)
Anyway, end of my incoherent, no-longer-fluent Japanese lecture =)
I just think that it's really mind-expanding to clue into how
other people think and how they view the world. Learning other
languages comes *highly* recommended as a way to do this.
Rick
--
key CF8F8A75 / print C5C1 F87D 5056 D2C0 D5CE D58F 970F 04D1 CF8F 8A75
Do not take life too seriously; you will never get out of it alive.
:Elbert Hubbard
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Re: [techtalk] Almost arrested for using telnet
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 07:05:09PM +0100, Telsa Gwynne wrote: > Watching someone in a terminal room. Stuck in floppy. Started machine. > It went through virus-check. "Beep! This has a virus!" "Oh no!" cried > the student. "A virus on the computer!" He whipped his floppy out... > > ...and stuck it in the next PC along the line. This used to drive me fscking crazy when I worked at my old University. The business people were really MS-Centric, and the biz building had the only NT lab. The place was just rampant with MSWord Macro viruses along with (less commonly) a horde of other goodies. People would stick one of their (unlabelled) floppes in the drive, and the antivirus software would go "w00t!, this floppy is infected with the FooBarfluous virus. Would you like to..." at which point they would tear the floppy out of the drive and leave it in the lab. They did this, of course, so that some kind-hearted individual could go into the lab, find the (unlabelled) floppy beside the computer, and think `Hm, looks like someone forgot this unlabelled floppy here. Well, since it's got no name or e-mail address on it, I'll stick it into [this computer|my laptop| my home computer] so I can see if it has any files on it that would identify the owner and get their floppy back to them.' And yes, in case you're wondering, more than once our helpdesk got a frantic call for help from someone who had the only copy of their thesis on a [lost|damaged|corrupted] floppy disk. Rick -- key CF8F8A75 / print C5C1 F87D 5056 D2C0 D5CE D58F 970F 04D1 CF8F 8A75 Yield to temptation; it may not pass your way again. :Robert Heinlein ___ techtalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/techtalk
