Re: [Tagging] Removal of "amenity" from OSM tagging

[Marc Gemis]

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 2:19 AM, Erik Johansson  wrote:

> There are no categorizes in the OSM data, believing that will not be
> helpfull to you when you try to use OSM data. The current way of
> sometime using the key as an category isn't working that well. Or I
> might be wrong I don't write that many stylesheets, and they are the
> biggest consumers of our data, so take a look at how they handle it.
>

I'm thinking more for apps/websites like taglocator, openpoimap, (although
they allow to select specific shops as well) or all the people that reach
out to help.openstreetmap.org and ask for all the POIs in their town.
With shop=... they get a long way.


regards

m
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Re: [Tagging] Removal of "amenity" from OSM tagging

[Marc Gemis]

I also forgot to mention that Mapnik also shows all shops that do not have
their own icon with a dot.
You cannot do that when you drop the shop-'category'

regards

m.

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 9:59 AM, Marc Gemis  wrote:

>
> On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 2:19 AM, Erik Johansson  wrote:
>
>> There are no categorizes in the OSM data, believing that will not be
>> helpfull to you when you try to use OSM data. The current way of
>> sometime using the key as an category isn't working that well. Or I
>> might be wrong I don't write that many stylesheets, and they are the
>> biggest consumers of our data, so take a look at how they handle it.
>>
>
> I'm thinking more for apps/websites like taglocator, openpoimap, (although
> they allow to select specific shops as well) or all the people that reach
> out to help.openstreetmap.org and ask for all the POIs in their town.
> With shop=... they get a long way.
>
>
> regards
>
> m
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Long Tail ( was Removal of "amenity" from OSM tagging)

[Richard Fairhurst]

johnw wrote:
> As far as I can tell, the differences between novices like me and more 
> power users is a) using JSOM or similar, and b) using relations.  that 
> is an insanely high bar to jump over. 

I'll let you into another secret.

Of the 5% of mappers doing 95% of the work... most are not doing anything
particularly powerful.

Only four types of relations are actually consumed worldwide to any
significant extent: multipolygons, routes, turn restrictions, and
boundaries. iD and P2 provide dedicated UI for the first three to hide the
complexities. (Boundaries are hard.) Sure, there are a thousand other
relation uses documented on the wiki, but they're pretty much a distraction.
No-one consumes them.[1]

Imports/bulk edits aside, the busy mappers are pretty much doing the same
mapping as you. Nothing complex, nothing powerful. They're just doing more
of it. 

So you can use iD, P2, JOSM, whatever you find comfortable and efficient. No
bar-jumping required.

(That's not to say that we can't do better at catering for the 95%, because
we can. But that's a whole other question and one which potentially requires
new types of editing software. More on that in my SOTM-US talk!)

cheers
Richard

[1] For the completists, two more which _are_ consumed, though just a
little: public transport site relations, and that weird old associatedStreet
thing (which you can tell is broken just by the intercap).




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Re: [Tagging] Long Tail ( was Removal of "amenity" from OSM tagging)

[Simon Poole]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512



On 19. Mai 2015 03:18:14 MESZ, johnw  wrote:

>
>there’s no preset “I want to add a business” or “I want to add a park”
>tutorials that walk through the basics and hold your hand, bring up
>options and ask you natural language questions to help you learn how to
>tag things. a person who just wants to add a node tag can have very
>little asked of them, and the node placed in the correct spot. another
>mapper can flesh it out later.

I've many times suggested that if we really want to exploit the long tail we 
need "wizards" not "simple" editors (I'm not sure that the later actually 
exists). We shoudn't kid ourselves though, we are unlikely to squezze a higher 
conversion rate  to reasonably active mappers out of  our audience that way, 
just a longer long tail. Any way we do it we are asking for people to spend 
more/a significant amount of time contributing and that will only happen if 
somebody is actually interested in the subject matter.
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Re: [Tagging] Long Tail ( was Removal of "amenity" from OSM tagging)

[Simon Poole]

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Hash: SHA512

We don't have access to non - editing accounts, speculating on the composition 
of them is just that. We do know that not all of the roughly 1.5 million are 
spammers, See my two recent diary posts for more,

On 19. Mai 2015 04:55:30 MESZ, Bryce Nesbitt  wrote:
>On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 5:28 PM, Clifford Snow
>
>wrote:
>
>>  I invite each user to join our Meetup Group and invite them to
>contact me
>> if they have any questions. The response rate is low. A survey could
>help
>> us identify why they joined, how they want to use OSM and what
>special
>> interests they have any their desired way of contributing.
>>
>
>Based on my experience running other sites, a huge fraction of the new
>users are bots.
>Yes, bots that respond to email.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] More flexible categories (was: Re: Removal of "amenity" from OSM tagging)

[Marc Gemis]

Thanks for taking the time to elaborate on it.

I believe most people don't care about the top-level tags. They just use
with iD (or a preset in JOSM for the somewhat more advanced users) give
them. Don't find it there ? just put name or do not map it. They don't
start to look in the wiki. Forget that. They even don't know it, or it  is
not translated in their language. I see it all the time here.

we need better, dedicated apps to put POIs on the map. They (novices,
occasional mappers) do not need a general editor.

regards
m


p.s. Richard F's made me curious about his presentation @ SOTM US in
another mail with respect to that "other type of editors".
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Re: [Tagging] More flexible categories (was: Re: Removal of "amenity" from OSM tagging)

[pmailkeey .]

On 19 May 2015 at 10:07, Marc Gemis  wrote:

> Thanks for taking the time to elaborate on it.
>
> I believe most people don't care about the top-level tags. They just use
> with iD (or a preset in JOSM for the somewhat more advanced users) give
> them. Don't find it there ? just put name or do not map it. They don't
> start to look in the wiki. Forget that. They even don't know it, or it  is
> not translated in their language. I see it all the time here.
>
> we need better, dedicated apps to put POIs on the map. They (novices,
> occasional mappers) do not need a general editor.
>
> regards
> m
>


Totally disagree Marc. Newbies won't feel welcome if they find it even
harder to edit the map. It's all very well having a simple tool to add a
POI but when they spot something else wrong, they may want to correct that
too - whatever it is. I'm all in favour of iD being the interface of choice
for everyone so that we can concentrate on it rather than considering a
collection of editors. Clearly it's not got the functionality of the other
editors but surely it can be adapted while still remaining a relatively
simple editor for newbies. iD has a long way to go to get to the perfect
state but it's only by perseverance that it'll get there.

-- 
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@millomweb  -
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via *the area's premier website - *

*currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property
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Re: [Tagging] Long Tail ( was Removal of "amenity" from OSM tagging)

[pmailkeey .]

On 19 May 2015 at 02:18, johnw  wrote:

>
> On May 19, 2015, at 2:24 AM, Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
>
> You might ask, so what is keeping people from editing?
>
>
>
> We don’t need to speculate. It’s easy to understand what is holding people
> back.
>
> It’s the same thing that hold people back from replacing the brakes on
> their car - there is a lot of knowlege and technique needed to do even a
> simple car repair job correctly - and when presented with that reality,
> people walk away from the job and have a “pro” do it.
>
> There is no "slow process" to being exposed to the OSM data editing
> process, and that means digesting the entire tagging structure in a very
> short period. When people realize this, they walk.
>
> As far as I can tell, the differences between novices like me and more
> power users is a) using JSOM or similar, and b) using relations.  that is
> an insanely high bar to jump over.
>
> Video games walk you through the control scheme, interaction model, and
> basic weapons when you first start. they don’t give you everything all at
> once in the middle of a boss fight and expect you to learn and enjoy it.
>
> But that is what is expected in OSM - even with how good iD looks/works.
>
> you can pick up “Street Fighter” and mash buttons and the characters move.
> Professionals know all the esoteric combos to make the fighters do advanced
> and amazing things, but that complexity is not presented to the beginning
> user.
>
> If you load up iD to add a tag for your business (and, lets say, the
> building itself) - you need to know Amenity= building= shop= opening_hours,
> landuse= how to tag driveways, parking, street numbers, and a whole lot
> that most users have trouble digesting - to say noting if the existing map
> looks like it does in Tokyo or london, or nothing at all in less mapped
> areas - all the existing complexity (or complete lack of anything) is very
> daunting.
>
> I think that all of that information is useful and necessary, but there is
> little way to have the mapper tag those things without understanding all
> the rationales and nuances of all those tags.
>
> there’s no preset “I want to add a business” or “I want to add a park”
>  tutorials that walk through the basics and hold your hand, bring up
> options and ask you natural language questions to help you learn how to tag
> things. a person who just wants to add a node tag can have very little
> asked of them, and the node placed in the correct spot. another mapper can
> flesh it out later.
>
> Its like learning brain surgery by having a brain presented to you your
> first day of kindergarten - Only a small percent of the people will
> naturally be interested enough (or understand enough) to be able to
> interact with something so complicated when it's presented to them.
>
> And this is without all the weird inconsistencies, omissions, and probably
> unnatural language used in the tagging scheme - which goes on top of all of
> that.
>
> Javbw
>
>
Sadly John, that's totally right. Having said that, there's more - the way
OSM 'works' as a community itself - it's broken in about 7 dimensions.
There are so many communication methods - lists, Github, wiki; not even all
the lists behave the same way re 'replyto:' - some reply to the list others
are set to reply to the poster. Seriously, coming across all the dead /
abandoned wikid proposals makes it look like OSM can't agree on anything
and the attitude of some of the 'old-timers' is just mildly offensive to
newbies. As for the inconsistencies, it's not just that they're weird it's
that they're so emphatically enforced. It seems what OSM is great at is
being a large experiment in anarchy. In its current form it's not fit to be
released to the general public. Starting again with the db interface could
quite possibly be the best way forward.


-- 
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Re: [Tagging] More flexible categories (was: Re: Removal of "amenity" from OSM tagging)

[Marc Gemis]

It might be a bridge to far, but for some it might be comforting to add new
POIs and update existing ones without being able to break anything.

E.g. I think I never touched a cycleway for during my first 2.5 years of
mapping (mapping 4 years now). Only then I thought I knew enough about the
different  tagging schemes (on the road, separate, extra tagging on the way
in case of separate, moving cycle route relations, etc. etc.)
to give it a go. But even now, I'm not really confident that the changes I
make to cycle infrastructure is helping the routers. (and yes I've read a
lot about it, but that confuses me more :-)  )

What I try to say is that "mapping" is IMHO difficult and that scares away
a lot of people. Motivated people like you and me can easily start with iD
or JOSM or Potlatch, but others might be better of with something that only
allows them to make small edits. And they will be happy that they can
contribute stuff without the fear of breaking something.

regards

m

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 11:28 AM, pmailkeey . 
wrote:

>
>
> On 19 May 2015 at 10:07, Marc Gemis  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for taking the time to elaborate on it.
>>
>> I believe most people don't care about the top-level tags. They just use
>> with iD (or a preset in JOSM for the somewhat more advanced users) give
>> them. Don't find it there ? just put name or do not map it. They don't
>> start to look in the wiki. Forget that. They even don't know it, or it  is
>> not translated in their language. I see it all the time here.
>>
>> we need better, dedicated apps to put POIs on the map. They (novices,
>> occasional mappers) do not need a general editor.
>>
>> regards
>> m
>>
>
>
> Totally disagree Marc. Newbies won't feel welcome if they find it even
> harder to edit the map. It's all very well having a simple tool to add a
> POI but when they spot something else wrong, they may want to correct that
> too - whatever it is. I'm all in favour of iD being the interface of choice
> for everyone so that we can concentrate on it rather than considering a
> collection of editors. Clearly it's not got the functionality of the other
> editors but surely it can be adapted while still remaining a relatively
> simple editor for newbies. iD has a long way to go to get to the perfect
> state but it's only by perseverance that it'll get there.
>
> --
> Mike.
> @millomweb  -
> For all your info on Millom and South Copeland
> via *the area's premier website - *
>
> *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family,
> property & pets*
>
> T&Cs 
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Sector, section, and cemetery

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

> Am 19.05.2015 um 00:25 schrieb Kotya Karapetyan :
> 
> 1) people really prefer to use "name" instead of or together with "ref"—and I 
> can well understand them, since "ref" is not displayed.


what is displayed really shouldn't matter how to tag (I know, you know and we 
all know it). ref could reasonably be displayed the same as name, if it were 
desired. name on a sector element isn't displayed like ref isn't.


> 2) cemetery=sector is used in some places but not everywhere. While 
> landuse=cemetery is used >200k times, cemetery=sector is only used 2.5k times.


I don't like the cemetery=sector tag because it goes against the logics of 
similar tagging schemes a=b b=c where c is a more detailed description (eg 
subtype) of a. A sector isn't a kind of cemetery, it is a part of it. We do not 
tag city=neighbourhood because a neighbourhood isn't a subtype of a city, it's 
a part of it. Similarly I also question the other values of the cemetery key 
with higher usage numbers, eg grave: 
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/cemetery#values 


Cheers 
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] amenity vs. shop *=ice_cream

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am 19.05.2015 um 02:14 schrieb pmailkeey . :

>> typically those would move around, so not mappable and would make a bad 
>> example picture.
> 
> 
> 
> Not all of them do.


yes, some are reoccurring at the same spot on a regular basis, I don't oppose 
mapping these, but I would rather choose a different photo for the wiki.

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Re: [Tagging] "Pet Relief Areas"

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

> Am 19.05.2015 um 07:32 schrieb Bryce Nesbitt :
> 
> A dog park is a place to play with a pet, probably off leash. 
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Ddog_park
> A pet relief area is a toilet.
> Different feature.


OK, from my ignorant perspective also dog parks seemed like huge toilets;-)

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Re: [Tagging] Long Tail ( was Removal of "amenity" from OSM tagging)

[moltonel 3x Combo]

On 19/05/2015, Simon Poole  wrote:
> On 19. Mai 2015 03:18:14 MESZ, johnw  wrote:
> 
>>
>>there’s no preset “I want to add a business” or “I want to add a park”
>>tutorials that walk through the basics and hold your hand, bring up
>>options and ask you natural language questions to help you learn how to
>>tag things. a person who just wants to add a node tag can have very
>>little asked of them, and the node placed in the correct spot. another
>>mapper can flesh it out later.
>
> I've many times suggested that if we really want to exploit the long tail we
> need "wizards" not "simple" editors (I'm not sure that the later actually
> exists). We shoudn't kid ourselves though, we are unlikely to squezze a
> higher conversion rate  to reasonably active mappers out of  our audience
> that way, just a longer long tail. Any way we do it we are asking for people
> to spend more/a significant amount of time contributing and that will only
> happen if somebody is actually interested in the subject matter.

http://onosm.org/ is IMHO not a bad answer to that. Maybe it could get
integrated on osm.org, alongside a collection of other special-purpose
wizards for various usecases.

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Re: [Tagging] Long Tail ( was Removal of "amenity" from OSM tagging)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

> Am 19.05.2015 um 01:47 schrieb Bryce Nesbitt :
> 
> How about if first edits caused some sort of flag that experienced users see, 
> and can welcome and thank the new user
> for registering and contributing.  This is possible now, but not really part 
> of the standard tool set and definitely not part of the culture.


Around here I know some people doing it, myself included. I'm using an rss feed 
generated by Pascal Neis' new mapper service, together with IFTTT (to get an 
email automatically), feedback is always positive (if any).

Cheers 
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] "Pet Relief Areas"

[Warin]

On 19/05/2015 8:20 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:





Am 19.05.2015 um 07:32 schrieb Bryce Nesbitt >:


A dog park is a place to play with a pet, probably off leash. 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Ddog_park

A pet relief area is a toilet.
Different feature.



OK, from my ignorant perspective also dog parks seemed like huge 
toilets;-)




Some use them as such. And most pets when in a large area and feeling 
the need .. simply toilet then and there. And pets tend to introduce 
their scent to the same spot.
I used to 'play' in one or two of those areas before it was made a 'dog 
park'. I don't go to those areas any more. Pity .. the wind for kite 
flying was good in one of them.
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Re: [Tagging] Long Tail ( was Removal of "amenity" from OSM tagging)

[SomeoneElse]

On 19/05/2015 11:50, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

Am 19.05.2015 um 01:47 schrieb Bryce Nesbitt :

How about if first edits caused some sort of flag that experienced users see, 
and can welcome and thank the new user
for registering and contributing.  This is possible now, but not really part of 
the standard tool set and definitely not part of the culture.


Around here I know some people doing it, myself included. I'm using an rss feed 
generated by Pascal Neis' new mapper service, together with IFTTT (to get an 
email automatically), feedback is always positive (if any).



The Polish and Italian communities do or did send automatic messages to 
all new mappers in their area (or actually, 75% of them, to see what 
effect sending vs not sending had).  I did some analysis on the 
retention of those mappers and couldn't find any kind of correlation:


https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/welcomewg/2013-March/22.html

Whether there's a correlation against quality of edits wasn't looked at 
(and would need a definition of "quality" of course).


Ages ago I wrote this up:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:SomeoneElse/new_mapper_messages

That's still more or less what I do locally although I tend to use 
changeset discussions now (give them chance to fix their own errors 
first unless they're causing serious damage, then offer to help). In the 
UK there are probably a dozen or so people "looking after" new mappers 
in their own different areas. From looking at Pascal Neis' site:


http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussions#2/36.0/-10.5

it appears that it's fairly common in other areas of the world too. 
Also, it's worth mentioning that despite people sometimes describing OSM 
as "unfriendly" the vast majority of changeset discussion comments, 
especially to new users, are very friendly and "happy to help".


Cheers,

Andy



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Re: [Tagging] Long Tail

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 19.05.2015 14:25, SomeoneElse napisał(a):


Also, it's worth mentioning that despite people sometimes describing
OSM as "unfriendly" the vast majority of changeset discussion
comments, especially to new users, are very friendly and "happy to
help".


That's why I want to have some hard data: we really don't know it (on 
the whole project level) what are the common problems or how many casual 
mappers gets the help. We just imagine a lot or know the things only on 
the local level.


Let's simply ask them - short survey for iD users after 30-90 days in 
the project or 50-100 edits (whatever comes first) may give us nice 
metric to think what can we do better.


--
"The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags 
down" [A. Cohen]


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Re: [Tagging] Long Tail

[Marc Gemis]

If I would get such a survey from any of the tens of webapps for which I
created a account that I used once, the answer would be something like

"I wanted to know what this service is about, and so I added my house. But
this is not something I to do during my spare time for a longer period."


I guess the answer will be universal to all hobbies. How many people drop
out of guitar classes after a few lessons, stop following a course on
learning a foreign language, going to dog school with their dogs, ... ?
People try something new and when they loose interest or don't like, don't
see a benefit, they start doing something else.
It's easier to use Google maps, "I just want to consume data, not produce
it."

Just some observations from what I've seen around me.

regards

m

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Daniel Koć  wrote:

> W dniu 19.05.2015 14:25, SomeoneElse napisał(a):
>
>  Also, it's worth mentioning that despite people sometimes describing
>> OSM as "unfriendly" the vast majority of changeset discussion
>> comments, especially to new users, are very friendly and "happy to
>> help".
>>
>
> That's why I want to have some hard data: we really don't know it (on the
> whole project level) what are the common problems or how many casual
> mappers gets the help. We just imagine a lot or know the things only on the
> local level.
>
> Let's simply ask them - short survey for iD users after 30-90 days in the
> project or 50-100 edits (whatever comes first) may give us nice metric to
> think what can we do better.
>
> --
> "The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags
> down" [A. Cohen]
>
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Re: [Tagging] Long Tail

[Simon Poole]

Am 19.05.2015 um 14:40 schrieb Daniel Koć:
> W dniu 19.05.2015 14:25, SomeoneElse napisał(a):
> 
>> Also, it's worth mentioning that despite people sometimes describing
>> OSM as "unfriendly" the vast majority of changeset discussion
>> comments, especially to new users, are very friendly and "happy to
>> help".
> 
> That's why I want to have some hard data: we really don't know it (on
> the whole project level) what are the common problems or how many casual
> mappers gets the help. We just imagine a lot or know the things only on
> the local level.
> 
> Let's simply ask them - short survey for iD users after 30-90 days in
> the project or 50-100 edits (whatever comes first) may give us nice
> metric to think what can we do better.
> 

There has been at least one study which gave indications why people stop
contributing (main reason given was time). I don't think that we are
imagining things nor do can I see anything special about OSM in this
respect (a couple of examples have already been given, another one from
me: SCUBA diving, an incredible number of people have done it at least
once, still there is only a low number that actually make it a real
hobby, much to the frustration of the people in the business :-)).

As to how many mappers get a welcome, given that I on my own do roughly
1% of all new mappers (aka 1000/year) for SOSM, I suspect that in total
we are talking of a higher double digit percentage.

Simon



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Re: [Tagging] Long Tail

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 19.05.2015 16:48, Simon Poole napisał(a):

There has been at least one study which gave indications why people 
stop

contributing (main reason given was time). I don't think that we are


This is really something we can't improve, sure. =} But even if it was 
as high as 75% (another wild guess!), I'd like to focus on that 25% 
reasons that we can make better. If it's just 20 people with "wrong 
color of the icons", it's still worth fixing - and no amount of 
estimations and guessing will give you such easy to check (and hopefully 
repair) issues.


And what's so wrong with having current, directly collected data, if 
it's not that hard to try?


BTW: do you have a link to read this study?

--
"The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags 
down" [A. Cohen]


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Re: [Tagging] Estate agent

[John F. Eldredge]

True. Some tailors have pre-made garments, which they alter as needed to fit 
the customer, in addition to or instead of making garments from scratch. I 
would describe the facility that includes pre-made garments as shop=tailor, and 
the facility that makes all garments from raw cloth for each customer as 
craft=tailor.


On May 18, 2015 8:34:49 AM CDT, Martin Koppenhoefer  
wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Am 18.05.2015 um 15:13 schrieb Andreas Goss :
> > 
> > Except that several values have moved away from shop like
> shop=tailer => craft=tailor. I mean we have have more than 1000 tags
> with shop=craft
> > Go on page 9,10,...
> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/shop#values and you will find
> many values, which are not shops and have better established tagging
> alternatives.
> 
> 
> I believe there are tailors in shops and tailors working in different
> context, just because there are several keys with the exact same value
> doesn't mean they say exactly the same thing. If you look at the
> numbers, there are more than double the amount of tailors tagged where
> the mapper put emphasis on the shop compared to those where the
> emphasis was put on the craft.
> 
> On page 9 in taginfo shop values, there are pois with 34 uses, I don't
> care for these, they're too few to make any kind of mainstream
> statistics/to draw conclusions.
> 
> cheers 
> Martin 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com (615) 299-6451
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive 
out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.

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[Tagging] RFC Reception_desk Mk2

[Warin]

Hi,

I have left this for a while. But I don't see it going anywhere in terms of the 
tag=value.
The initial proposal started on 6 February 2015, has been voted on and 
reformatted to address issues raised.

Link to the proposal = 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/amenity%3Dreception_desk

For those not familiar with the proposal.
A Reception Desk provides a place where people (visitors, patients, or
clients) arrive to be greeted, any information recorded, the relevant
person is contacted  and the visitor/s, patient/s, or client/s sent on
to the relevant person/place.

It is particularly useful to know the location of the reception desk
when it is located away from the typical place (near a front entry) or
where there is only one amongst a number of large buildings. First seen
as a suggestedextended tag for camp sites  
, 
thought to have a wider application to offices, hotels and educational features.


 
I have changed the documentation (many times) hopefully it addresses most issues that have been raised.
 
One issue that I have not address is when someone wants to have one node with more than one amenity on it.

This occurs for many key=value situations.
Firstly .. it would be possible to create two nodes and place the different 
values on the different nodes. That is the solution I use.
Secondly ... it has been suggested to use a format of a subtag where value2=yes 
is placed under the key=value1.
e.g.
amenity=bbq
reception_desk=yes

I have not seen (nor sought!) documentation for this .. as I don't use it.

---

The present proposal format in the upper section shows what the result should 
look like, while the lower section has the verbose explanation etc.
I don't like the title 'Rationale' .. and have appended 'Verbose Explanation' 
as a simpler, clearer title.
I have also added sections on the key, value etc .. as I think that is easier 
to follow (and I don't get mixed up in my documentation!  :-)).


So there it is .. voting soon? Depending on any discussion relevant to the 
key-value.
Discussion of the format etc ... ok .. but not fundamental to the proposal 
itself, so should not delay voting.



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