Re: [Tagging] pastry and confectionery

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

On 03/giu/2013, at 08:55, Vincent Pottier  wrote:

> So we can had the tag baking=no for those shop without oven.


there is a tag "oven" in use with values like wood_fired to indicate the type 
of oven, e.g. for a pizzeria, you could use oven=no for the pain depots.

cheers,
Martin
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] pastry and confectionery

[Jo]

Better be explicit and use

oven=yes for all 'warme bakkers' where the bread is baked on the spot.

and

oven=no if the bread is transported in from somewhere else.

And here in Belgium we also distinguish bakery/pastry. Usually bakers do
both. Confectionery is something totally different. We also have shops
specialised in chocolate confectionery ('pralines' in French/Dutch)

Jo

2013/6/3 Martin Koppenhoefer 

>
>
>
>
> On 03/giu/2013, at 08:55, Vincent Pottier  wrote:
>
> > So we can had the tag baking=no for those shop without oven.
>
>
> there is a tag "oven" in use with values like wood_fired to indicate the
> type of oven, e.g. for a pizzeria, you could use oven=no for the pain
> depots.
>
> cheers,
> Martin
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] pastry and confectionery

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2013/6/3 Jo 

> Better be explicit and use
>
>

+1



> oven=yes for all 'warme bakkers' where the bread is baked on the spot.
> oven=no if the bread is transported in from somewhere else.
>
>


currently the oven tag is used also to convey further detail
(oven=wood_fired) this could be extended to tag also oven=electrical
instead of a simple "yes" (if known). Wood_fired ovens are a typical
"ingredient" for higher quality pizza but also bread.




> And here in Belgium we also distinguish bakery/pastry. Usually bakers do
> both. Confectionery is something totally different. We also have shops
> specialised in chocolate confectionery ('pralines' in French/Dutch)
>


yes, the same here in Italy. Probably in all or most European countries
this is a common distinction and yes, bakeries often offer also pastry (but
usually the less complicated ones). Confectionery is more rare here, but it
does exist and is quite different from pastry producing businesses
(it:"pasticceria") as the confectionery products don't contain flour.

Another edge case might be "it:gelateria", which is ice cream makers
(artisanal producers, ice cream made in the shop), which often also offer
pastry containing ice_cream fillings, semi-freddo ("half-frozen"), etc.

cheers,
Martin
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] pastry and confectionery

[Peter Wendorff]

Hi.

I'm curious wether the existence/usage of an oven is the best criterium
for this issue.
At least in Germany a lot of bakeries have an oven, but use it only to
bake prepared raw rolls/buns/..., selling them fresh, sometimes still
warm (if you're there at the right time at least) while the other bread
is transported from somewhere else.
So at least that would lead to a second tag: preparing=yes or something
like that.

regards
Peter

Am 03.06.2013 10:45, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
> 2013/6/3 Jo 
> 
>> Better be explicit and use
>>
>>
> 
> +1
> 
> 
> 
>> oven=yes for all 'warme bakkers' where the bread is baked on the spot.
>> oven=no if the bread is transported in from somewhere else.
>>
>>
> 
> 
> currently the oven tag is used also to convey further detail
> (oven=wood_fired) this could be extended to tag also oven=electrical
> instead of a simple "yes" (if known). Wood_fired ovens are a typical
> "ingredient" for higher quality pizza but also bread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> And here in Belgium we also distinguish bakery/pastry. Usually bakers do
>> both. Confectionery is something totally different. We also have shops
>> specialised in chocolate confectionery ('pralines' in French/Dutch)
>>
> 
> 
> yes, the same here in Italy. Probably in all or most European countries
> this is a common distinction and yes, bakeries often offer also pastry (but
> usually the less complicated ones). Confectionery is more rare here, but it
> does exist and is quite different from pastry producing businesses
> (it:"pasticceria") as the confectionery products don't contain flour.
> 
> Another edge case might be "it:gelateria", which is ice cream makers
> (artisanal producers, ice cream made in the shop), which often also offer
> pastry containing ice_cream fillings, semi-freddo ("half-frozen"), etc.
> 
> cheers,
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
> 


___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] how to tag professional schools

[Brian Wolford]

Was wondering if anybody knew the proper way to tag
professional/trade/vocational schools.

Specifically looking for auto repair school right now. But relevant also
for hair stylist school, HVAC repair school, ect... Even dance and music
schools.

Found this proposal:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Trade_school

Which looked promising until checking its usage:
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=trade_school


Any body know of a better or more established way?


Mesi anpil,
Brian and Evens 
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] how to tag professional schools

[Mikel Maron]

For Map Kibera, we have used education:type=*
http://taginfo.mapkibera.org/keys/education:type#values

Not sure it's better or more established than any other. We'd like to see some 
consensus around it.
 
* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron


>
> From: Brian Wolford 
>To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" ; 
>Evens Michel  
>Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 12:08 PM
>Subject: [Tagging] how to tag professional schools
> 
>
>
>Was wondering if anybody knew the proper way to tag 
>professional/trade/vocational schools.
>
>
>Specifically looking for auto repair school right now. But relevant also for 
>hair stylist school, HVAC repair school, ect... Even dance and music schools.
>
>
>Found this proposal:
>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Trade_school
>
>
>Which looked promising until checking its usage:
>http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=trade_school
>
>
>
>
>
>Any body know of a better or more established way?
>
>
>
>
>Mesi anpil,
>Brian and Evens
>___
>Tagging mailing list
>Tagging@openstreetmap.org
>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
>
>___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] pastry and confectionery

[Johan Jönsson]

Peter Wendorff  writes:
> Hi.
> 
> I'm curious wether the existence/usage of an oven is the best criterium
> for this issue.
> At least in Germany a lot of bakeries have an oven, but use it only to
> bake prepared raw rolls/buns/..., selling them fresh, sometimes still
> warm (if you're there at the right time at least) while the other bread
> is transported from somewhere else.
> So at least that would lead to a second tag: preparing=yes or something
> like that.
> 
> regards
> Peter
> 
> Am 03.06.2013 10:45, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
> > 2013/6/3 Jo 
> > 
> > 
> >> oven=yes for all 'warme bakkers' where the bread is baked on the spot.
> >> oven=no if the bread is transported in from somewhere else.
> >>
> > currently the oven tag is used also to convey further detail
> > (oven=wood_fired) this could be extended to tag also oven=electrical
> > instead of a simple "yes" (if known). Wood_fired ovens are a typical
> > "ingredient" for higher quality pizza but also bread.
> > 
> > 

May I suggest that we might also use the relatively new key
craft=*
(I have found it mostly useful for bookbinder and blacksmith and such but 
could be worth a try)
This is supposed to be used to point out that it is an artisan in the shop 
making the things you buy.
So in France one could add craft=baker to a boulangeri while just having 
shop=bakery on the depots.

I can also see that oven=stone_oven and other variants could find their 
interested mappers here in Sweden, where such bread has become popular. By 
the way, we also have a lot of non-bakeries that make what we call bake-off 
(doing the last part of the baking in an electric oven in the store, not 
just heating them up)





___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] how to tag professional schools

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 12:08 AM, Brian Wolford
wrote:

> Was wondering if anybody knew the proper way to tag
> professional/trade/vocational schools.
>
> Specifically looking for auto repair school right now. But relevant also
> for hair stylist school, HVAC repair school, ect... Even dance and music
> schools.
>
> Found this proposal:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Trade_school
>
> Which looked promising until checking its usage:
> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=trade_school
>
>
> Any body know of a better or more established way?
>

It seems people are using amenity=school combined with either of the
following keys:

school:type=*   http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/school:type
school_type=*  http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/school_type

The question is, does amenity=school imply only general education? Or can
it also be used for specialized schools?
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] tagging cannons

[Brian Wolford]

Follow up.

If tagging a small area that has, say, 8 cannons, but not wanting to map
them individually. What is the best tag to use to indicate number of
cannons there?

capacity=* doesn't seem right. Is there something like count=*?

Mesi,
b



2013/5/31 René Kirchhoff 

> Yes! :)
>
> see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historische_Objekte#Kanone
>
>
> http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/historische_objekte/?zoom=15&lat=53.89357&lon=11.46009&layers=BFTT&detail=3&select=n1132388089
>
> Gruß René
>
> *
> » Check the Monuments! «*
> Viele der als historic=monument erfassten Objekte sind in Wirklichkeit
> kein Monument. Sie wurden mangels passender Tags oder aus Unkenntnis als
> Monument erfaßt. Die Karte "CheckTheMonuments" will bei der Korrektur
> unterstützen, weitere Details im Wiki:
> Wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CheckTheMonuments
> Karte: http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/monuments/
>
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
>
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] how to tag professional schools

[Jaakko Helleranta.com]

I think that the OSM
wikiis both
precise and good on the use of amenity=school

Use amenity =*school* to
> identify a place where pupils, normally between the ages of about 5 and 18
> are taught under the supervision of teachers. This includes primary and
> secondary schools.


Intuitively the "K-12" (primary + secondary schools - often the combination
of elementary + highschool) are "school" in this sense. Pre-school and
kindergarten are sometimes called "school" but are part of the "school
system" in the same way. The primary and (sometimes) secondary schools are
often also the more or less compulsory schools.

I think if would be best if the OSM tagging clearly kept amenity=school for
this (K-12/primary+secondary) and we used other tags for other types of
schools / "educational places".
And this is what the original question was about -- how to tag other than
K-12 schools?

The closest (partial) solution we could find is the proposed
amenity=trade_school (that has only one (1!) occurrance in the db). I added
that to the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Education_features page --
and we'll be likely using that for the various professional training
facilities that we run into on the ground in Haiti unless something better
comes up.

Related to this: I would personally like to see a very general education
POI tag that would be good for any and every educational POI that we run
into, which doesn't have a "dedicated" tag (such as amenity=school,
=college, =university, =kindergarten, =driving_school, =dojo, =what-not).
Does anyone else think that such tag would be good -- and if yes do you
think that 
amenity=education
(used
currently 109 times) could be acceptable for that?

Cheers,
-Jaakko
--
jaa...@helleranta.com * Skype: jhelleranta * Mobile: +509-37-269154  *
http://go.hel.cc/about.me


On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 2:32 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 12:08 AM, Brian Wolford  > wrote:
>
>> Was wondering if anybody knew the proper way to tag
>> professional/trade/vocational schools.
>>
>> Specifically looking for auto repair school right now. But relevant also
>> for hair stylist school, HVAC repair school, ect... Even dance and music
>> schools.
>>
>> Found this proposal:
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Trade_school
>>
>> Which looked promising until checking its usage:
>> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=trade_school
>>
>>
>> Any body know of a better or more established way?
>>
>
> It seems people are using amenity=school combined with either of the
> following keys:
>
>  school:type=*   http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/school:type
> school_type=*  http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/school_type
>
> The question is, does amenity=school imply only general education? Or can
> it also be used for specialized schools?
>
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
>
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] tagging cannons

[René Kirchhoff]

Hello, why do not you use 8 nodes? No Mapper previously used a area for
cannons.
Many OSM Mapper like more details. I also :)
By René
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] tagging cannons

[Richard Welty]

On 6/3/13 3:49 PM, René Kirchhoff wrote:

Hello, why do not you use 8 nodes? No Mapper previously used a area for
cannons.
Many OSM Mapper like more details. I also :)


i could probably develop a fairly extensive taxonomy for cannons from
the American Civil War. Napoleans, Parrot Rifles, Columbiads, Rodmans,
you name it...

richard


___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] how to tag professional schools

[fly]

On 03.06.2013 21:33, Jaakko Helleranta.com wrote:
> I think that the OSM wiki
>  is both
> precise and good on the use of amenity=school
> 
> Use amenity
> =*school* to
> identify a place where pupils, normally between the ages of about 5
> and 18 are taught under the supervision of teachers. This includes
> primary and secondary schools.
> 
> 
> Intuitively the "K-12" (primary + secondary schools - often the
> combination of elementary + highschool) are "school" in this sense.
> Pre-school and kindergarten are sometimes called "school" but are part
> of the "school system" in the same way. The primary and (sometimes)
> secondary schools are often also the more or less compulsory schools.
> 
> I think if would be best if the OSM tagging clearly kept amenity=school
> for this (K-12/primary+secondary) and we used other tags for other types
> of schools / "educational places". 
> And this is what the original question was about -- how to tag other
> than K-12 schools? 
> 
> The closest (partial) solution we could find is the proposed
> amenity=trade_school (that has only one (1!) occurrance in the db). I
> added that to
> the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Education_features page -- and
> we'll be likely using that for the various professional training
> facilities that we run into on the ground in Haiti unless something
> better comes up.
> 
> Related to this: I would personally like to see a very general education
> POI tag that would be good for any and every educational POI that we run
> into, which doesn't have a "dedicated" tag (such as amenity=school,
> =college, =university, =kindergarten, =driving_school, =dojo, =what-not).
> Does anyone else think that such tag would be good -- and if yes do you
> think that amenity=education
>  (used
> currently 109 times) could be acceptable for that?

+1
even then all already existing tags could be included within the
education subtags.

cu
fly

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] Underground power lines in tunnel

[François Lacombe]

Hi,

I'm currently improving draft of power transmission refinement proposal and
a question about underground features can't currently find answer.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_transmission_refinement

I wonder how we can map power lines underground and infrastructure which
can host them simultaneously.
The best example is when several power lines are built in a tunnel like on
this photo :
http://www.rte-france.com/webapp/100ansparis/img/chapitre3/img14.jpg

I can create several ways, very close from each other, for all power lines
we can see and tag them with tunnel=yes but how will I map the tunnel ?
If we only use tunnel=yes on each power line, it's impossible to know if
they are in the same tunnel or if there is one dedicated tunnel for each.

I think only a relation would solve the problem and it's not a power line
dedicated question.

Do someone have ever encounter that situation ?


Many thanks in advance, cheers.


*François Lacombe*

francois dot lacombe At telecom-bretagne dot eu
http://www.infos-reseaux.com
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] When was landuse=reservoir deprecated ?

[fly]

Hey

When was landuse=reservoir [1] deprecated ?

There was only little discussion on tagging@ about water=* [2][3]. Now
we have to different uses which do not fit together (eg,
water=lake;intermittent ?).

Anyway landuse=reservoir was never deprecated and has 20+ uses and
might not be exact equal to water=reservoir. There is no problem with
using both tags at the same time.


Cheers
fly

--
[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse=reservoir
[2]
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.tagging/7247/focus=7309
[3]
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.tagging/8547/focus=8556

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] pastry and confectionery

[fly]

On 03.06.2013 20:04, Johan Jönsson wrote:
> Peter Wendorff  writes:
>> Hi.
>>
>> I'm curious wether the existence/usage of an oven is the best criterium
>> for this issue.
>> At least in Germany a lot of bakeries have an oven, but use it only to
>> bake prepared raw rolls/buns/..., selling them fresh, sometimes still
>> warm (if you're there at the right time at least) while the other bread
>> is transported from somewhere else.
>> So at least that would lead to a second tag: preparing=yes or something
>> like that.
>>
>> regards
>> Peter
>>
>> Am 03.06.2013 10:45, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
>>> 2013/6/3 Jo 
>>>
>>>
 oven=yes for all 'warme bakkers' where the bread is baked on the spot.
 oven=no if the bread is transported in from somewhere else.

>>> currently the oven tag is used also to convey further detail
>>> (oven=wood_fired) this could be extended to tag also oven=electrical
>>> instead of a simple "yes" (if known). Wood_fired ovens are a typical
>>> "ingredient" for higher quality pizza but also bread.
>>>
>>>
> 
> May I suggest that we might also use the relatively new key
> craft=*
> (I have found it mostly useful for bookbinder and blacksmith and such but 
> could be worth a try)
> This is supposed to be used to point out that it is an artisan in the shop 
> making the things you buy.
> So in France one could add craft=baker to a boulangeri while just having 
> shop=bakery on the depots.

+1
So we already have a tag to show the differences.

> I can also see that oven=stone_oven and other variants could find their 
> interested mappers here in Sweden, where such bread has become popular. By 
> the way, we also have a lot of non-bakeries that make what we call bake-off 
> (doing the last part of the baking in an electric oven in the store, not 
> just heating them up)

Maybe we can find a tag for this, too. For me the more important point
is if was baked all in one or if it is bake-off and not where the oven
is located.

cu
fly

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Underground power lines in tunnel

[fly]

On 04.06.2013 00:26, François Lacombe wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm currently improving draft of power transmission refinement proposal
> and a question about underground features can't currently find answer.
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_transmission_refinement
> 
> I wonder how we can map power lines underground and infrastructure which
> can host them simultaneously.
> The best example is when several power lines are built in a tunnel like
> on this photo :
> http://www.rte-france.com/webapp/100ansparis/img/chapitre3/img14.jpg
> 
> I can create several ways, very close from each other, for all power
> lines we can see and tag them with tunnel=yes but how will I map the
> tunnel ?
> If we only use tunnel=yes on each power line, it's impossible to know if
> they are in the same tunnel or if there is one dedicated tunnel for each.
> 
> I think only a relation would solve the problem and it's not a power
> line dedicated question.
> 
> Do someone have ever encounter that situation ?

Mmh, type=tunnel is already in use [1] but it is used for the whole
tunnel, e.g. to combine several tubes and the infrastucture like escape
ways and air-system.

We could use a tag like tubes= or number_of_tubes= for the relation and
draw the outline.

fly

--
[1]
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Bridges_and_Tunnels

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging