[Tagging] manger/feeding place
Hi! While digging through the wiki and taginfo on the search for a tag for a manger I stumbled upon amenity=game_feeding (unknown status and used 20 times according to taginfo). This seems to be a tag used for a manger to feed game animals. Not exactly what I'm looking for because I need a manger for all kinds of animals. But on that page also alternative tags are presented which may fit my needs (taginfo-count in parenthesis): * amenity=feeding_place (2) * amenity=manger (12) * amenity=feeding_rack (11) * amenity=cratch (4) * man_made=cratch (10) * man_made=animal_feeding (12) I also stumbled upon some subkeys: * feeding:for (6) * feeding:type (6) -> 3 times cratch and 3 times manger as value Not really a clear favourite here. I also need a tag for an automated feeding station; my first thought was amenity=feeding_station. Now I guess that these two can be combined into the following: * amenity=feeding_place * feeding:type=manger/automated * feeding:for= * feeding:fooder= Any thoughts? I would write a proposal to document the tag and its subkey. regards, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (amenity=kennel)
On Fri, 2012-09-14 at 00:40 +0200, André Pirard wrote: > On 2012-09-13 23:38, Steve Doerr wrote : > > On 13/09/2012 21:00, St Niklaas wrote: > > > > > What about Asylum, for all animals and a tag for the spieces, > > > cats, dags, horses or guinea pigs ? > > > > That word has different connotations in English: either a lunatic > > asylum (outdated term for a hospital or home for the mentally ill) > > or political asylum (meaning the protection afforded by one country > > to refugees fleeing political oppression in their home countries). > > > > If you look at its translations, asylum is certainly a word that will > be understood by all Indo-European languages. But not the Russian, > Ukrainian Bulgarian triplet. > But I don't see well which of your meanings applies to animals ;-) > Fortunately, in addition to the same "asile d'aliénés" and "asile > politique", French has "asile de paix" that's just a calm, resting > place without any restriction regarding the guests and their need for > protection. > BTOW, French étable (stable) is just for cows, not horses. > Asylum will not be understood in the context of animal care. As Steve Doerr said it has a completely different meaning that of this thread. Phil ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=kennel
On Fri, 2012-09-14 at 03:12 +0200, Alberto wrote: > Ok, because according to English native speakers there isn't a single word > that indicates "a facility where animals are kept and the staff feeds them > and cares of them", I propose to change from "amenity=kennel" to > "amenity=animal_shelter". > In Italy there are centers for dogs only, cats only, dogs and cats, wild > animals in general, wild sea animals only, wild birds only and so on. Any > combination is potentially allowed, so adding a tag "dog=yes", "cat=yes", > "wild_animals=yes", "wild_birds=yes" and so on is useful. > > "pet_keeping" is not used according to taginfo and it is too restrictive: > there are facilities that don't held pets but wild animals. > > "building=asylum" is not intuitive and it's not used according to taginfo. > Moreover the key "building" is too restrictive for a center that can include > buildings, meadows, courtyards. > > "Amenity=animal_boarding" is too restrictive: there are kennels that take > stray dogs, catteries for stray cats, rescue centers for wounded wild > animals. > > On the other hand "amenity=animal_shelter" is intuitive and already in use > according to taginfo. Also "animal=shelter" is already in use: in the wiki > animal page it's suggested to use it, but on what basis? There isn't any > proposal page and it hasn't been voted. > Ultimately I think we have to unify "amenity=animal_shelter" and > "animal=shelter" in one tag, refine and officialize it. I think that with a > feature page and with a preset in editors, one of these could become an > universally used tag. > Then we can refine it and add one or more additional tags for the purpose of > the facility. > I prefer "amenity=animal_shelter" to "animal=shelter" because according to > wiki "amenities are an assortment of community facilities" and an animal > shelter is one of them. > On the other hand the key "animal" is not defined on the wiki and according > to taginfo it's often used to indicate a species of animal or simply > "animal=yes". > We have already "amenity=veterinary" and not "animal=veterinary", so why not > "amenity=animal_shelter"? > Alberto An animal shelter is a place where lost, or abandoned animals are taken. Either to be cared for, or re-homed. UK examples are charities such as the RSPCA, Dogs Trust, Battersea Dogs Home and numerous other smaller places. Animal shelter appropriate in those cases, but not in the case of Boarding Kennels, or Boarding Catteries where you take your pet to be cared for whilst you go on holiday. For these I would propose amenity=boarding_kennel and amenity=boarding_cattery. A few do take cats and dogs, but in my experience this is extremely unusual, few cat owners would want to leave their cat at a place where they will hear dogs. Small animal boarding is another amenity, however not very common. I have never come across a place where small animals, cats and dogs are cared for, other than animal shelters. Phil; > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=kennel
I also think that "amenity=animal_shelter" with other tags to indicate kinds of
animals goes in the sense of OSM tagging. Things like "animal=shelter" are
nonsense: a shelter is not an animal, whereas an animal_shelter is an amenity.
To set a general rule of thumb, for those tags that are not boolean properties
(yes/no), the value ("animal_shelter") shall be an item from the set
represented by the key ("amenity").
To remove ambiguities related to short tags like "horse=yes", why not using
another set of specific tags indicating whether a kind of animal is accepted in
the shelter, like "animal_shelter:dog=yes", "animal_shelter:cat=yes",
"animal_shelter:horse=yes" and so on, maybe refining the attribute "yes" by
something more useful?
Teuxe
- Mail original -
De: "Alberto"
À: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Envoyé: Vendredi 14 Septembre 2012 03:12:48
Objet: [Tagging] amenity=kennel
Ok, because according to English native speakers there isn't a single word
that indicates "a facility where animals are kept and the staff feeds them
and cares of them", I propose to change from "amenity=kennel" to
"amenity=animal_shelter".
In Italy there are centers for dogs only, cats only, dogs and cats, wild
animals in general, wild sea animals only, wild birds only and so on. Any
combination is potentially allowed, so adding a tag "dog=yes", "cat=yes",
"wild_animals=yes", "wild_birds=yes" and so on is useful.
"pet_keeping" is not used according to taginfo and it is too restrictive:
there are facilities that don't held pets but wild animals.
"building=asylum" is not intuitive and it's not used according to taginfo.
Moreover the key "building" is too restrictive for a center that can include
buildings, meadows, courtyards.
"Amenity=animal_boarding" is too restrictive: there are kennels that take
stray dogs, catteries for stray cats, rescue centers for wounded wild
animals.
On the other hand "amenity=animal_shelter" is intuitive and already in use
according to taginfo. Also "animal=shelter" is already in use: in the wiki
animal page it's suggested to use it, but on what basis? There isn't any
proposal page and it hasn't been voted.
Ultimately I think we have to unify "amenity=animal_shelter" and
"animal=shelter" in one tag, refine and officialize it. I think that with a
feature page and with a preset in editors, one of these could become an
universally used tag.
Then we can refine it and add one or more additional tags for the purpose of
the facility.
I prefer "amenity=animal_shelter" to "animal=shelter" because according to
wiki "amenities are an assortment of community facilities" and an animal
shelter is one of them.
On the other hand the key "animal" is not defined on the wiki and according
to taginfo it's often used to indicate a species of animal or simply
"animal=yes".
We have already "amenity=veterinary" and not "animal=veterinary", so why not
"amenity=animal_shelter"?
Alberto
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Re: [Tagging] amenity=kennel
> Animal shelter appropriate in those cases, but not in the case of Boarding Kennels, or Boarding Catteries where you take your pet to be cared for whilst you go on holiday. For these I would propose amenity=boarding_kennel and amenity=boarding_cattery. A few do take cats and dogs, but in my experience this is extremely unusual, few cat owners would want to leave their cat at a place where they will hear dogs. May be the case in UK but in rural areas of Australia it's the opposite. Most take cats and dogs. Usually well separated as plenty of space. So I'd suggest amenity=pet_boarding or amenity=kennel and then dog=yes, cat=yes, etc Cheers Ross ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=kennel
On Fri, 2012-09-14 at 19:10 +1000, Ross Scanlon wrote: > > Animal shelter appropriate in those cases, but not in the case of > > Boarding Kennels, or Boarding Catteries where you take your pet to be > > cared for whilst you go on holiday. For these I would propose > > amenity=boarding_kennel and amenity=boarding_cattery. > > > > A few do take cats and dogs, but in my experience this is extremely > > unusual, few cat owners would want to leave their cat at a place where > > they will hear dogs. > > May be the case in UK but in rural areas of Australia it's the opposite. > Most take cats and dogs. Usually well separated as plenty of space. > > So I'd suggest amenity=pet_boarding or amenity=kennel and then dog=yes, > cat=yes, etc > +1 I would go along with that one. Kennel implies dogs. Phil ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] amenity=veterinary: size and animals
Hi! The tag amenity=veterinary is used for veterinaries. But there exists not (documented) possibility to tag the size of the facility or what animals are treated. Taginfo shows that a very limited time the size was tagged with veterinary=hospital. I would suggest the following: * veterinary=doctor/clinic/hospital * veterinary:for=; or alternatively veterinary:for:=yes/no An alternative to veterinary= would be veterinary:size=. What do you think? Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=veterinary: size and animals
On Fri, 2012-09-14 at 11:22 +0200, Martin Vonwald wrote: > Hi! > > The tag amenity=veterinary is used for veterinaries. But there exists > not (documented) possibility to tag the size of the facility or what > animals are treated. Taginfo shows that a very limited time the size > was tagged with veterinary=hospital. I would suggest the following: > * veterinary=doctor/clinic/hospital > * veterinary:for=; or alternatively > veterinary:for:=yes/no > > An alternative to veterinary= would be veterinary:size=. > > What do you think? Doctor should not be used, that implies treatment of humans. A person qualified to treat animals is a Vet, or Veterinary Surgeon. Phil ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=veterinary: size and animals
On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Martin Vonwald wrote: > > What do you think? > I think that the tag "phone=" is enough: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Phone Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=veterinary: size and animals
2012/9/14 Philip Barnes : > Doctor should not be used, that implies treatment of humans. A person > qualified to treat animals is a Vet, or Veterinary Surgeon. Good point. What value would you suggest for a veterinary, where only one person treats animals? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=veterinary: size and animals
2012/9/14 Pieren : > I think that the tag "phone=" is enough: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Phone Thank you. Any other opinions? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] animal shelter
Phil wrote: >An animal shelter is a place where lost, or abandoned animals are taken. >Either to be cared for, or re-homed. UK examples are charities such as >the RSPCA, Dogs Trust, Battersea Dogs Home and numerous other smaller >places. >Animal shelter appropriate in those cases, but not in the case of >Boarding Kennels, or Boarding Catteries where you take your pet to be >cared for whilst you go on holiday. For these I would propose >amenity=boarding_kennel and amenity=boarding_cattery. --- This isn't true: in Italy there are animal shelters that take lost animals but they have also some boxes to take pets from people who go on holiday. If we are looking for a general tag, we have to find one that can fit in all the world. The distinction you say can be done with additional tags, like boarding=yes/no, stray=yes/no. Alberto ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=veterinary: size and animals
2012/9/14 Martin Vonwald : > 2012/9/14 Philip Barnes : >> Doctor should not be used, that implies treatment of humans. A person >> qualified to treat animals is a Vet, or Veterinary Surgeon. > > Good point. What value would you suggest for a veterinary, where only > one person treats animals? Would "practice" fit? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] animal shelter
Alberto wrote: This isn't true: in Italy there are animal shelters that take lost animals but they have also some boxes to take pets from people who go on holiday. As in many other cases (e.g. pubs that are also restaurants and/or also hotels) as a mapper you have to pick the most appropropriate tag. There will always be edge cases. The "most useful" tag is the one that most people are likely to use - if it's too complicated to make it into editor presets and too complicated for people to remember it won't get used. Cheers, Andy ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] amenity=kennel to amenity=animal_shelter
- Mail original -
>I also think that "amenity=animal_shelter" with other tags to indicate
kinds of animals goes in the sense of OSM tagging. Things like
"animal=shelter" are nonsense: a shelter is not >an animal, whereas an
animal_shelter is an amenity.
>To set a general rule of thumb, for those tags that are not boolean
properties (yes/no), the value ("animal_shelter") shall be an item from the
set represented by the key >("amenity").
>To remove ambiguities related to short tags like "horse=yes", why not using
another set of specific tags indicating whether a kind of animal is accepted
in the shelter, like >"animal_shelter:dog=yes", "animal_shelter:cat=yes",
"animal_shelter:horse=yes" and so on, maybe refining the attribute "yes" by
something more useful?
>Teuxe
+1.
I'll put these tags in a proposal "amenity=animal_shelter".
What do you think about refine it in "animal_shelter:dog:stray=yes/no",
"animal_shelter:dog:boarding=yes/no" and so on for other species?
If you know a kennel is for stray and boarding you should tag with
"amenity=animal_shelter", "animal_shelter:dog:stray=yes " and
"animal_shelter:dog:boarding=yes ".
If you don't know the purpose of a kennel you just tag it with
"amenity=animal_shelter" and "animal_shelter:dog=yes".
If you don't know neither the species kept in a shelter, you just tag it
with "amenity=animal_shelter".
Is it too complicated?
Or maybe it would be better for a stray and boarding kennel to tag it with
"amenity=animal_shelter" and "animal_shelter:dog=stray;boarding "?
Which solution would be correctly interpreted by route planning software?
Alberto
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Re: [Tagging] amenity=veterinary: size and animals
On 14/09/12 10:58, Pieren wrote: On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Martin Vonwald wrote: What do you think? I think that the tag "phone=" is enough: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Phone +1 -- Cheers, Chris user: chillly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Open stable / feeding station
Some more feedback from the UK: Open stables are (more or less) unknown there. Also for legal reasons already mentioned. That seems to be the main reason why no proper english term exists for this. What comes close to an open stable is called grass livery, but the area is (much) larger, the surface is not maintained, often no or just a limited number of shelters and there are usually no feeding places/stations. Would it be better to use a common tag for an "area where animals are kept"? And then refine with subkeys? Something like: landuse=animal_keeping ¹ animal_keeping:for:=yes/no animal_keeping:type=grass_livery/open_stable/ ¹ I have no clue what a good value would be. Any suggestions? Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=veterinary: size and animals
2012/9/14 Chris Hill : > On 14/09/12 10:58, Pieren wrote: >> >> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Martin Vonwald >> wrote: >>> >>> What do you think? >>> >> I think that the tag "phone=" is enough: >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Phone >> >> > +1 I hereby propose to remove all amenity=hospitals and amenity=clinic from the OSM database and replace everything with amenity=doctors and phone=xxx. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=veterinary: size and animals
On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Martin Vonwald wrote: > I hereby propose to remove all amenity=hospitals and amenity=clinic > from the OSM database and replace everything with amenity=doctors and > phone=xxx. My proposal was not about the size (legitimate question) but more about the list of animals. It reminds me this proposal: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Beer_details Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=veterinary: size and animals
2012/9/14 Pieren : > On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Martin Vonwald wrote: > >> I hereby propose to remove all amenity=hospitals and amenity=clinic >> from the OSM database and replace everything with amenity=doctors and >> phone=xxx. > > My proposal was not about the size (legitimate question) but more > about the list of animals. It reminds me this proposal: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Beer_details This list of animals should be used in case of specialized vets, e.g. some vets only treat horses. Or to put it the other way around: there should NOT be a list like veterinary:for:hamster=yes, veterinary:for:mouse=yes, veterinary:for:rabbit=yes, . ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=veterinary: size and animals
On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Martin Vonwald wrote: > This list of animals should be used in case of specialized vets Then you could create a subtag like vet_speciality=companion_animals/livestock/zoo_animals/horses/surgery/dermatology/internal_medicine Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=veterinary: size and animals
2012/9/14 Pieren : > On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Martin Vonwald wrote: >> This list of animals should be used in case of specialized vets > > Then you could create a subtag like > vet_speciality=companion_animals/livestock/zoo_animals/horses/surgery/dermatology/internal_medicine This could be a useful refinement but I would not mix animals and other specializations. Especially as a specialization on certain animals is much more common than a specialization on e.g. dermatology among vets. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=kennel
Ross Scanlon wrote: > > Animal shelter appropriate in those cases, but not in the case of > > Boarding Kennels, or Boarding Catteries where you take your pet to > be > > cared for whilst you go on holiday. For these I would propose > > amenity=boarding_kennel and amenity=boarding_cattery. > > > > A few do take cats and dogs, but in my experience this is extremely > > unusual, few cat owners would want to leave their cat at a place > where > > they will hear dogs. > > May be the case in UK but in rural areas of Australia it's the > opposite. > Most take cats and dogs. Usually well separated as plenty of space. > > So I'd suggest amenity=pet_boarding or amenity=kennel and then > dog=yes, > cat=yes, etc > > Cheers > Ross > In the USA (at least in Nashville, Tennessee, where I live) veterinary offices often include boarding services for small animals. Some only board one type of animals, but accepting more than one type is more common. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=kennel
2012/9/14 John F. Eldredge > > In the USA (at least in Nashville, Tennessee, where I live) veterinary > offices often include boarding services for small animals. Some only board > one type of animals, but accepting more than one type is more common. > Services are tagged like service:bicycle:repair=yes for shops that will repair your bike. For animals it could be service:animal:grooming=yes if the shop will hairstyle your dog, or service:animal:boarding=yes and so on. If they take only one type of animal, maybe it could be something like service:animal:boarding=dog;cat Janko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=kennel
Janko Mihelić wrote: Services are tagged like service:bicycle:repair=yes for shops that will repair your bike. Saying that implies that people actually use tags such as these. Taginfo suggests otherwise: shop=bicycle: 13,425 service:bicycle:repair: 758 I'm guessing that it's a fair bet that more than 5% of all bike shops do some sort of repairs - unless the complexity of tags like this are hidden from users (e.g. by editor support) they won't get used enough to be useful. Cheers, Andy ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=kennel
Dana petak, 14. rujna 2012., korisnik SomeoneElse< li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk> je napisao: > Saying that implies that people actually use tags such as these. Taginfo suggests otherwise: > shop=bicycle: 13,425 > service:bicycle:repair: 758 > > I'm guessing that it's a fair bet that more than 5% of all bike shops do some sort of repairs - unless the complexity of tags like this are hidden from users (e.g. by editor support) they won't get used enough to be useful. > There is a rule for tags; if you render it, they will use it. Look at this map: http://open.geof.hr/~dodobas/zgbikes.html Shops with service:bicycle:retail=yes have a shoping cart, repair have a little tool. Quite usefull, don't you think so? Janko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
