Re: [Sursound] Sound localisation techniques

[Thomas Chen]

I use 16 speakers in a dual hexagon(up and down).  I think that spacing at 45 
degrees will give good results.  I also space the two on each of the r walls of 
the room.  I think the corners are bad because of the time differential between 
the speakers i.e. length of the radius from the center.


ThomasChen



-Original Message-
From: Augustine Leudar 
To: suso ; Surround Sound discussion group 

Sent: Thu, May 1, 2014 9:41 am
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound localisation techniques


actually contact this guy he did exactly what you are saying in Max :

http://www.romaindumaine.com/#/main

also Nuendo new versions allow for it (amplitude panning based not
ambisonics)
Gus


On 1 May 2014 17:35, Augustine Leudar  wrote:

> I would use four at ear height or a bit lower even and four in the corners
> of the room or - a cube starting at ear height. However you could also mess
> around with some of the DBAP (distance based amplitude panning) max
> externals which let you tell the system where the speakers are and then pan
> around them - you can have all sorts of weird and irregular speaker arrays
> - no need to stay peripheral - depends what you want to do I guess:
>
>
>
> *http://cycling74.com/forums/topic/dbap-external/
> <http://cycling74.com/forums/topic/dbap-external/>*
> by the way its easy to do exactly what you are suggesting with
> ICSTsambipanning~  or any panner which allows for multiple soundsources and
> recordable trajectories (automation)
> *. *
> enjoy !
> Gus
>
>
> On 29 April 2014 05:09, Michael Chapman  wrote:
>
>> > Hello all,
>> >
>> > I'm looking into experimenting with live 3D panning of sound tracks
>> from a
>> > DAW. The tracks will not be in B-format as I do not have a soundfield
>> mic.
>> > I have 8 identical M-audio AV 40 speakers which I will be driving
>> through
>> > an interface and Max/MSP code (
>> > http://www.icst.net/research/projects/ambisonics-tools/).
>> >
>> The comment has already been made: You don't need a mic to make digital
>> audio ...
>> For ambisonics, anything other than first order must (almost) certainly
>> have been created (with or without mics).
>>
>> > I'm primarily interested in taking a mix for my speaker array and being
>> > able to tilt / rotate / reflect etc. all of the tracks simultaneously.
>> >
>> That sounds like ambisonics,
>> but I would (for ambisonics) phrase it as: Making a mix fo any speaker
>> array, being able to tilt, etc., and being able to listen to the result on
>> 'any' array ... including my own.
>>
>> > - Any advice on speaker placement for 8 speakers in a small bedroom? I'm
>> > currently thinking the 6 corners of a cube and then left and right on
>> the
>> > wall at ear level.
>> >
>> Think we'd need to see the bedroom  or at least hear about it 
>>
>> Eight sounds like the corners of a cube (you mention six ... that would be
>> the faces, and not as 'simple' to deal with (nor (?) anything like as
>> good)).
>>
>> > - Are ambisonics techniques the best/only way to do this given that I
>> > don't
>> > have B-format?
>> >
>> Everyone with a computer 'has' B-format ;-)>
>>
>> > - Any references that would be good for a newbie to read? My background
>> is
>> > in math and programming, so technical material is fine.
>> >
>>
>> Good luck,
>>
>> Michael
>>
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>>
>
>
>
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[Sursound] B-Fromat microphone

[Hector Centeno]

Hello all,

I've been experimenting with making a native B-Format mic using 3D printed
parts. I've done some recordings with it and I was wondering if people here
with ambisonic playback systems could give one of them a try. Any comments
will be very appreciated.

A photo of the mic: http://www.hcenteno.net/extras/b-format_mic.jpg
Link to binaural decode and link to B-Format file (in the description):
https://soundcloud.com/hcenteno/wow-what-is-that-papa

Change the level of the W channel to taste (the W capsule is more sensitive
than the rest so I had to reduce it to what sounded good to me).

Thanks and best wishes,

Hector
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Re: [Sursound] B-Fromat microphone

[Stefan Schreiber]

Hector Centeno wrote:


Hello all,

I've been experimenting with making a native B-Format mic using 3D printed
parts. I've done some recordings with it and I was wondering if people here
with ambisonic playback systems could give one of them a try. Any comments
will be very appreciated.

A photo of the mic: http://www.hcenteno.net/extras/b-format_mic.jpg
Link to binaural decode and link to B-Format file (in the description):
https://soundcloud.com/hcenteno/wow-what-is-that-papa

Change the level of the W channel to taste (the W capsule is more sensitive
than the rest so I had to reduce it to what sounded good to me).

Thanks and best wishes,

Hector
 



Really cool, and very creative!

< Which > parts did you actually print? You can't print the capsules 
itself, can you?


It is probably not just me who would like to ask this question...

Best regards,

Stefan

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Re: [Sursound] Sound localisation techniques

[Stefan Schreiber]

Thomas Chen wrote:


I use 16 speakers in a dual hexagon(up and down).  I think that spacing at 45 
degrees will give good results.  I also space the two on each of the r walls of 
the room.



Isn't this a dual octagon? ;-)

Rest assured...

Stefan


 I think the corners are bad because of the time differential between the 
speakers i.e. length of the radius from the center.


ThomasChen



-Original Message-
From: Augustine Leudar 
To: suso ; Surround Sound discussion group 

Sent: Thu, May 1, 2014 9:41 am
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound localisation techniques


actually contact this guy he did exactly what you are saying in Max :

http://www.romaindumaine.com/#/main

also Nuendo new versions allow for it (amplitude panning based not
ambisonics)
Gus


On 1 May 2014 17:35, Augustine Leudar  wrote:

 


I would use four at ear height or a bit lower even and four in the corners
of the room or - a cube starting at ear height. However you could also mess
around with some of the DBAP (distance based amplitude panning) max
externals which let you tell the system where the speakers are and then pan
around them - you can have all sorts of weird and irregular speaker arrays
- no need to stay peripheral - depends what you want to do I guess:



*http://cycling74.com/forums/topic/dbap-external/
*
by the way its easy to do exactly what you are suggesting with
ICSTsambipanning~  or any panner which allows for multiple soundsources and
recordable trajectories (automation)
*. *
enjoy !
Gus


On 29 April 2014 05:09, Michael Chapman  wrote:

   


Hello all,

I'm looking into experimenting with live 3D panning of sound tracks
   


from a
 


DAW. The tracks will not be in B-format as I do not have a soundfield
   


mic.
 


I have 8 identical M-audio AV 40 speakers which I will be driving
   


through
 


an interface and Max/MSP code (
http://www.icst.net/research/projects/ambisonics-tools/).

   


The comment has already been made: You don't need a mic to make digital
audio ...
For ambisonics, anything other than first order must (almost) certainly
have been created (with or without mics).

 


I'm primarily interested in taking a mix for my speaker array and being
able to tilt / rotate / reflect etc. all of the tracks simultaneously.

   


That sounds like ambisonics,
but I would (for ambisonics) phrase it as: Making a mix fo any speaker
array, being able to tilt, etc., and being able to listen to the result on
'any' array ... including my own.

 


- Any advice on speaker placement for 8 speakers in a small bedroom? I'm
currently thinking the 6 corners of a cube and then left and right on
   


the
 


wall at ear level.

   


Think we'd need to see the bedroom  or at least hear about it 

Eight sounds like the corners of a cube (you mention six ... that would be
the faces, and not as 'simple' to deal with (nor (?) anything like as
good)).

 


- Are ambisonics techniques the best/only way to do this given that I
don't
have B-format?

   


Everyone with a computer 'has' B-format ;-)>

 


- Any references that would be good for a newbie to read? My background
   


is
 


in math and programming, so technical material is fine.

   


Good luck,

Michael

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Re: [Sursound] B-Fromat microphone

[David Pickett]

Bravo on the mic!

I have played your file (as my set up is restricted to 4.0 horizontal 
mode, I have only matrixed channels W, X & Y).  I find it difficult 
to know at what level to set the W channel, as what appears to be 
going on all around is (excuse me, no offence intended!) rather 
chaotic.  Could you provide a file of someone talking at the front, 
rear and sides of the array?  This would enable calibration of the 
relative levels of WXY.


I spent some time doing this with my own pantophonic mic recently and 
was pleased with the results.


David

At 19:40 05-05-14, Hector Centeno wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>I've been experimenting with making a native B-Format mic using 3D printed
>parts. I've done some recordings with it and I was wondering if people here
>with ambisonic playback systems could give one of them a try. Any comments
>will be very appreciated.
>
>A photo of the mic: http://www.hcenteno.net/extras/b-format_mic.jpg
>Link to binaural decode and link to B-Format file (in the description):
>https://soundcloud.com/hcenteno/wow-what-is-that-papa
>
>Change the level of the W channel to taste (the W capsule is more sensitive
>than the rest so I had to reduce it to what sounded good to me).
>
>Thanks and best wishes,
>
>Hector
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Re: [Sursound] B-Fromat microphone

[Hector Centeno]

No, the capsules are not printed (it would be great if I could!). The white
holder and metal frame where 3D printed.

Best,

Hector
On May 5, 2014 2:00 PM, "Stefan Schreiber"  wrote:

> Hector Centeno wrote:
>
>  Hello all,
>>
>> I've been experimenting with making a native B-Format mic using 3D printed
>> parts. I've done some recordings with it and I was wondering if people
>> here
>> with ambisonic playback systems could give one of them a try. Any comments
>> will be very appreciated.
>>
>> A photo of the mic: http://www.hcenteno.net/extras/b-format_mic.jpg
>> Link to binaural decode and link to B-Format file (in the description):
>> https://soundcloud.com/hcenteno/wow-what-is-that-papa
>>
>> Change the level of the W channel to taste (the W capsule is more
>> sensitive
>> than the rest so I had to reduce it to what sounded good to me).
>>
>> Thanks and best wishes,
>>
>> Hector
>>
>>
>
> Really cool, and very creative!
>
> < Which > parts did you actually print? You can't print the capsules
> itself, can you?
>
> It is probably not just me who would like to ask this question...
>
> Best regards,
>
> Stefan
>
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Re: [Sursound] B-Fromat microphone

[Hector Centeno]

Thank you David,

The flamingos should be in the front only but spreading left to right. I'll
upload some more samples soon. I'll try to record one with more localized
sound sources at different locations.

Best,

Hector
On May 5, 2014 3:21 PM, "David Pickett"  wrote:

> Bravo on the mic!
>
> I have played your file (as my set up is restricted to 4.0 horizontal
> mode, I have only matrixed channels W, X & Y).  I find it difficult to know
> at what level to set the W channel, as what appears to be going on all
> around is (excuse me, no offence intended!) rather chaotic.  Could you
> provide a file of someone talking at the front, rear and sides of the
> array?  This would enable calibration of the relative levels of WXY.
>
> I spent some time doing this with my own pantophonic mic recently and was
> pleased with the results.
>
> David
>
> At 19:40 05-05-14, Hector Centeno wrote:
> >Hello all,
> >
> >I've been experimenting with making a native B-Format mic using 3D printed
> >parts. I've done some recordings with it and I was wondering if people
> here
> >with ambisonic playback systems could give one of them a try. Any comments
> >will be very appreciated.
> >
> >A photo of the mic: http://www.hcenteno.net/extras/b-format_mic.jpg
> >Link to binaural decode and link to B-Format file (in the description):
> >https://soundcloud.com/hcenteno/wow-what-is-that-papa
> >
> >Change the level of the W channel to taste (the W capsule is more
> sensitive
> >than the rest so I had to reduce it to what sounded good to me).
> >
> >Thanks and best wishes,
> >
> >Hector
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Re: [Sursound] B-Fromat microphone

[Stefan Schreiber]

Hector Centeno wrote:


No, the capsules are not printed (it would be great if I could!). The white
holder and metal frame where 3D printed.

 



What I thought...

Thanks,

Stefan

P.S.:  I am not sure what the future holds, though. Imagine 3D printers 
with high resolution, specialized on really small parts/objects!


Would it be impossible to manufacture (< 3D print > ) microphone 
capsules if you already < can > print whole loudspeakers?


http://www.disneyresearch.com/project/printed-speakers/




On May 5, 2014 2:00 PM, "Stefan Schreiber"  wrote:

 


Hector Centeno wrote:

Hello all,
   


I've been experimenting with making a native B-Format mic using 3D printed
parts. I've done some recordings with it and I was wondering if people
here
with ambisonic playback systems could give one of them a try. Any comments
will be very appreciated.

A photo of the mic: http://www.hcenteno.net/extras/b-format_mic.jpg
Link to binaural decode and link to B-Format file (in the description):
https://soundcloud.com/hcenteno/wow-what-is-that-papa

Change the level of the W channel to taste (the W capsule is more
sensitive
than the rest so I had to reduce it to what sounded good to me).

Thanks and best wishes,

Hector


 


Really cool, and very creative!

< Which > parts did you actually print? You can't print the capsules
itself, can you?

It is probably not just me who would like to ask this question...

Best regards,

Stefan

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Re: [Sursound] B-Fromat microphone

[umashankar manthravadi]

dear hector
 
what capsules did you use? these look like 10 mm. Zoom h2n uses something 
similar for the s part of the ms microphone but I have not seen omnis.
 
I like the 3d print. my own version uses six cardioid capsules, but I never 
completed it. 
 
umashankar
 
> Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 13:40:45 -0400
> From: hcen...@gmail.com
> To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> Subject: [Sursound] B-Fromat microphone
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I've been experimenting with making a native B-Format mic using 3D printed
> parts. I've done some recordings with it and I was wondering if people here
> with ambisonic playback systems could give one of them a try. Any comments
> will be very appreciated.
> 
> A photo of the mic: http://www.hcenteno.net/extras/b-format_mic.jpg
> Link to binaural decode and link to B-Format file (in the description):
> https://soundcloud.com/hcenteno/wow-what-is-that-papa
> 
> Change the level of the W channel to taste (the W capsule is more sensitive
> than the rest so I had to reduce it to what sounded good to me).
> 
> Thanks and best wishes,
> 
> Hector
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Re: [Sursound] B-Fromat microphone

[Hector Centeno]

Hello Umashankar,

Yes, they are all 10mm capsules. The bi-directional capsules are EM-183,
probably the same as the Zoom H2n, and the omni is a EM-172.

Best,

Hector



On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 9:33 PM, umashankar manthravadi <
umasha...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> dear hector
>
> what capsules did you use? these look like 10 mm. Zoom h2n uses something
> similar for the s part of the ms microphone but I have not seen omnis.
>
> I like the 3d print. my own version uses six cardioid capsules, but I
> never completed it.
>
> umashankar
>
> > Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 13:40:45 -0400
> > From: hcen...@gmail.com
> > To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> > Subject: [Sursound] B-Fromat microphone
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I've been experimenting with making a native B-Format mic using 3D
> printed
> > parts. I've done some recordings with it and I was wondering if people
> here
> > with ambisonic playback systems could give one of them a try. Any
> comments
> > will be very appreciated.
> >
> > A photo of the mic: http://www.hcenteno.net/extras/b-format_mic.jpg
> > Link to binaural decode and link to B-Format file (in the description):
> > https://soundcloud.com/hcenteno/wow-what-is-that-papa
> >
> > Change the level of the W channel to taste (the W capsule is more
> sensitive
> > than the rest so I had to reduce it to what sounded good to me).
> >
> > Thanks and best wishes,
> >
> > Hector
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