[sage-devel] Re: Wiki translation?

[Franco Saliola]

On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:00 PM, Maurizio  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> For some strange reason, I fell into the SAGE-intro-Italian wiki page.
> I am Italian, and I can see that translation has been done with an
> automatic translator (something like babelfish or google translate),
> and looks a bit embarrassing :)
>
> I am willing to give my contribute providing a "human" Italian
> translation to that intro page. Are you willing to get some more pages
> translated as well? I know this is low priority, yet I feel this could
> represent a small payback to your great work.
>
> So, if you like, let me know how to do that (please, consider that I
> have no experience with wiki page editing, although I have no fear to
> learn), and which are the sources you consider the most important, and
> would like to see translated. I think that an important point is to
> focus on the pages you care the most, and probably the introduction to
> all the functionalities, since this could help people to fall into
> SAGE by looking for something else in google :)
>
> I know this looks pretty useless, since nowadays everybody should
> speak English, yet I know universities are still full of people not
> necessarily fluent in English.

Ciao Maurizio,

Please also take a look at this page,

http://wiki.sagemath.org/i18n/Italian

Fixing the SAGE-intro-Italian is one of the things on their todo list. So
is translating the tutorial.

Beware: there has not been much work on the Italian translation for about 6
months, and so the files listed on the page are from an old version of the
tutorial (although I don't know how much the tutorial has actually changed).
It would be better to work with the documentation that is included with the
latest version of the Sage.

After the translation, the documentation can then be included with Sage, as
it currently includes the French documentation (see
$SAGE_ROOT/devel/sage/doc/fr/tutorial).

Thanks for this!
Franco

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[sage-devel] Re: Wiki translation?

[Franco Saliola]

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 8:00 AM, ahmet alper parker  wrote:
>
> If not any exists or poor, I can contribute in the Turkish translation
> too... If there is a standard way of doing that, it would be much
> easier for other languages as well...

You can find more information regarding translations on the wiki:

http://wiki.sagemath.org/i18n

There doesn't seem to be an Turkish translation.

The 'Sage intro' and the tutorial are probably the best places to start.

Thank you.

Franco

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[sage-devel] Re: A bug in multi-variate polynomial ring

[simon . king]

Hi,

On 22 Mai, 02:29, Kwankyu  wrote:
...
> This seems to me a bug. Isn't it? I am using Sage 3.4.2.

Or at least: It is a very nasty inconsistency -- and note that the
inconsistent behaviour apparently is intended.
At least, it is doc tested:
In the univariate case, we have the doc test
sage: R. = QQ[]
sage: R(0).degree()
-1
and in the multivariate case, we have the doc test
sage: P. = QQ[]
sage: P(0).degree(x)
0
sage: P(1).degree(x)
0

I think that it is quite usual to say that the zero polynomial has
*no* degree, while all other constant polynomials have degree 0. And
"no degree" is often accomplished by returning -1. This is done, e.g.,
in Singular:
  > ring R = 0, (x,y), dp;
  > deg(0);
  -1

My  vote:
 +1 for -1


While we are at it:
  sage: Q=singular.ring(0,'(x,y)','dp')
  sage: Q(0)
 -> boom

I think the __call__ method of *all* rings (including those rings
defined via some interface) should do essentially the same: Try to
interprete the arguments as a ring element.

Cheers,
   Simon

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[sage-devel] Re: algorithm vs. method

[John Cremona]

2009/5/22 Gonzalo Tornaria :
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 5:27 PM, John Cremona  wrote:
>> However sometimes I have felt that "algorithm" did not quite capture
>> the distinction being made for some function.  I have written
>> functions in Sage which have an algorithm parameter which can be
>> either "pari" or "sage", where the underlying algorithm is in fact the
>> same, but we are choosing to use one implementation of it instead of
>> another.  I could try arguing for the use of "implementation" as the
>> name of the parameter... but "algorithm" will do fine.
>
> +1 on both "implementation" seems a bit better, but "algorithm" is ok.
>
> Sometimes I wish there was a standard/uniform way to code the frontend
> for a multiple-implementation function in such a way that
>
> (a) introspection knows about it, so e.g. "function??" shows the
> actual code for the default implementation, and it's also easy to get
> the actual code for the other implementations.

This can be done if the implementation are in different sub-functions
(maybe with underscore prefixes, and suffixes equal to "_" +
"algorithm").

>
> (b) doctesting can be improved based on that (e.g. doctests are run
> with algorithm="all", without need to repeat).

Not all functions with algorithm parameters allow "all" and do a
comparison.  Should they?  (Omitting those which require optional
packages, of course).

>
> (c) a generic tuning/benchmaketing framework could be implemented
> feeding back the tuning to the frontend.
>
> (d) in case there is a better implementation which depends on optional
> packages or tables, it becomes default when the required optional
> package is installed.

That happens to some extent already -- e.g. if you ask for the
generators of an elliptic curve in my database, it does a look-up if
the database is installed and otherwise computes them.  This is
probably left to be handled  case-by-case.

John

>
> Just my 2 cents..
>
> Gonzalo
>
> >
>

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[sage-devel] Re: A bug in multi-variate polynomial ring

[John Cremona]

There are 3 conventions for the degree of the 0 polynomial, none of which is 0:

(1) None (a bit lazy and hard to work with in most non-python languages)
(2) -1 (rather arbitrary, I think, it just has the useful property
of being strictly less than any other degree)
(3) -Infinity (less arbitrary, also less then any other degree, makes
formulas like deg(fg)=deg(f)+deg(g) work in all cases, and fits in
best with more highbrow concepts such as valuations).

So I would choose -Infinity (since we can!), though I bet there will
be dissenters

John

2009/5/22  :
>
> Hi,
>
> On 22 Mai, 02:29, Kwankyu  wrote:
> ...
>> This seems to me a bug. Isn't it? I am using Sage 3.4.2.
>
> Or at least: It is a very nasty inconsistency -- and note that the
> inconsistent behaviour apparently is intended.
> At least, it is doc tested:
> In the univariate case, we have the doc test
>sage: R. = QQ[]
>sage: R(0).degree()
>-1
> and in the multivariate case, we have the doc test
>sage: P. = QQ[]
>sage: P(0).degree(x)
>0
>sage: P(1).degree(x)
>0
>
> I think that it is quite usual to say that the zero polynomial has
> *no* degree, while all other constant polynomials have degree 0. And
> "no degree" is often accomplished by returning -1. This is done, e.g.,
> in Singular:
>  > ring R = 0, (x,y), dp;
>  > deg(0);
>  -1
>
> My  vote:
>  +1 for -1
>
>
> While we are at it:
>  sage: Q=singular.ring(0,'(x,y)','dp')
>  sage: Q(0)
>  -> boom
>
> I think the __call__ method of *all* rings (including those rings
> defined via some interface) should do essentially the same: Try to
> interprete the arguments as a ring element.
>
> Cheers,
>   Simon
>
> >
>

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[sage-devel] Re: Sage 4.0.rc0 released!

[Dr. David Kirkby]

mabshoff wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I gotta run to the airport, but sources and upgrade bits of 4.0.rc0
> are in
> 
>http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/mabshoff/release-cycles-4.0/rc0/

I must say, it's looking better on Solaris.

Before going to bed, I started to build 4.0.rc0. I woke up this morning, 
and found it is still in the build process. I don't think it has ever 
run anything like that time before it has stopped.

My machine is quite heavily loaded (load average 3.7) which is due to 
some other processes running, which have been running for weeks, so 
would have been running when I tried to build sage-4.0.alpha0

So, based on this very scientific measure of starting to compile Sage 
before I sent to bed, and Sage still compiling now (and hour or so after 
I got up), that is a definite improvement on Solaris!

Dave

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[sage-devel] Re: A bug in multi-variate polynomial ring

[simon . king]

Dear John

On 22 Mai, 10:25, John Cremona  wrote:
> There are 3 conventions for the degree of the 0 polynomial, none of which is 
> 0:
>
> (1) None (a bit lazy and hard to work with in most non-python languages)
> (2) -1     (rather arbitrary, I think, it just has the useful property
> of being strictly less than any other degree)
> (3) -Infinity (less arbitrary, also less then any other degree, makes
> formulas like deg(fg)=deg(f)+deg(g) work in all cases, and fits in
> best with more highbrow concepts such as valuations).

You are right. I forgot that there is inifinity in Sage. So, even
though it dissents with Singular, I think -infinity is mathematically
the most consistent answer for the degree of zero.

Cheers,
Simon

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[sage-devel] sage-4.0.rc0 - division bug on second and subsequent evaluation of cell?

[Kevin Horton]

I am using sage-4.0.rc0 on 32 bit ubuntu 8.10.

I have discovered a very strange interaction between the "Integer=int"  
declaration, division, and the number of times a worksheet is evaluated.

Consider the following worksheet.  The very first time it is  
evaluated, division is handled as float division, and the results are  
what I hoped for.  But, if I evaluate the cell again, I get a  
different answer.  This time the division seems to be python integer  
division, and I get a different result.  I keep getting this second  
result until I restart the worksheet, then I get the first result for  
a single evaluation.

Regardless of what the correct behaviour is, I would hope to get the  
same behaviour every time I evaluate the worksheet.  This looks like a  
bug to me.


First evaluation after restarting worksheet:

Division Error?
system:sage

{{{id=2|
Integer=int

print float(500/1000), float(1000/1000)
print float(500/1000.), float(1000/1000.)
///

0.5 1.0
0.5 1.0
}}}


Second and subsequent evaluation:

Division Error?
system:sage

{{{id=2|
Integer=int

print float(500/1000), float(1000/1000)
print float(500/1000.), float(1000/1000.)
///

0.0 1.0
0.5 1.0
}}}


Note: I am using the RealNumber=float; Integer=int declarations to  
avoid errors when specifying axis parametres for matplotlib plots.  I  
may need to start wrapping each of those parametres in float() instead.

--
Kevin Horton
Ottawa, Canada




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[sage-devel] Re: not all controls on interact should trigger an update

[pang]

On May 21, 11:33 pm, pang  wrote:
> I have uploaded an example of an interaction which could be used to
> present the problem of the eight queens:
>
> http://wiki.sagemath.org/interact/misc#Queensonboard

I also added an example: play nim against a perfect oponent. I created
a special page in the wiki for both examples. I don't think this could
be done reasonably without the auto_update=False option. So thank you
for your work!

http://wiki.sagemath.org/interact/games
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[sage-devel] Re: A bug in multi-variate polynomial ring

[Martin Albrecht]

On Friday 22 May 2009, simon.k...@uni-jena.de wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 22 Mai, 02:29, Kwankyu  wrote:
> ...
>
> > This seems to me a bug. Isn't it? I am using Sage 3.4.2.
>
> Or at least: It is a very nasty inconsistency -- and note that the
> inconsistent behaviour apparently is intended.
> At least, it is doc tested:
> In the univariate case, we have the doc test
> sage: R. = QQ[]
> sage: R(0).degree()
> -1
> and in the multivariate case, we have the doc test
> sage: P. = QQ[]
> sage: P(0).degree(x)
> 0
> sage: P(1).degree(x)
> 0

This is just me being stupid (or at least I was stupid when I wrote this). It 
should definitely be -1. Note that I hardcoded the zero:

if self._poly == NULL:
return 0

I'll open a ticket and provide a fix.

> I think that it is quite usual to say that the zero polynomial has
> *no* degree, while all other constant polynomials have degree 0. And
> "no degree" is often accomplished by returning -1. This is done, e.g.,
>
> in Singular:
>   > ring R = 0, (x,y), dp;
>   > deg(0);
>
>   -1
>
> My  vote:
>  +1 for -1
>
>
> While we are at it:
>   sage: Q=singular.ring(0,'(x,y)','dp')
>   sage: Q(0)
>  -> boom
>
> I think the __call__ method of *all* rings (including those rings
> defined via some interface) should do essentially the same: Try to
> interprete the arguments as a ring element.

We just don't have any special code for Singular rings so all that is needed 
is a patch which adds it ;)

Martin

-- 
name: Martin Albrecht
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_www: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~malb
_jab: martinralbre...@jabber.ccc.de


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[sage-devel] Re: A bug in multi-variate polynomial ring

[Martin Albrecht]

On Friday 22 May 2009, John Cremona wrote:
> There are 3 conventions for the degree of the 0 polynomial, none of which
> is 0:
>
> (1) None (a bit lazy and hard to work with in most non-python languages)
> (2) -1 (rather arbitrary, I think, it just has the useful property
> of being strictly less than any other degree)
> (3) -Infinity (less arbitrary, also less then any other degree, makes
> formulas like deg(fg)=deg(f)+deg(g) work in all cases, and fits in
> best with more highbrow concepts such as valuations).

IIRC we had this discussion a while back and settled for -1 for performance 
reasons. I can't find that old discussion now though.

Martin


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[sage-devel] Re: algorithm vs. method

[Gonzalo Tornaria]

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 5:18 AM, John Cremona  wrote:
> 2009/5/22 Gonzalo Tornaria :
>> Sometimes I wish there was a standard/uniform way to code the frontend
>> for a multiple-implementation function in such a way that
>>
>> (a) introspection knows about it, so e.g. "function??" shows the
>> actual code for the default implementation, and it's also easy to get
>> the actual code for the other implementations.
>
> This can be done if the implementation are in different sub-functions
> (maybe with underscore prefixes, and suffixes equal to "_" +
> "algorithm").

Yes, but usually those are not exported, hence it's not that easy to
get to the source code. And not all the functions are necessarily
implemented in this way.

>> (b) doctesting can be improved based on that (e.g. doctests are run
>> with algorithm="all", without need to repeat).
>
> Not all functions with algorithm parameters allow "all" and do a
> comparison.  Should they?  (Omitting those which require optional
> packages, of course).

Using algorithm="all" may not always work; in fact it could be that
different "algorithms" have different ranges of application. What I'm
just saying is that it would be nice if some doctests actually mean
"test all the algorithms", while some mean "test just this particular
algorithm".

>> (d) in case there is a better implementation which depends on optional
>> packages or tables, it becomes default when the required optional
>> package is installed.
>
> That happens to some extent already -- e.g. if you ask for the
> generators of an elliptic curve in my database, it does a look-up if
> the database is installed and otherwise computes them.  This is
> probably left to be handled  case-by-case.

Yes, it's just that case-by-case sometimes mean that the
implementation details may differ a little bit, or diverge over time.
In fact, the code for gens doesn't know if the database is installed
or not. It just tries, and backs up to a computation in case this
fails (which is quite sensible, but adds overhead).

But to my point, in this case
{{{
E = EllipticCurve("389a")
E.gens??
}}}
does actually show the source code for all the "algorithms", which are
all in the same function body. But they are mixed up with the logic
for actually choosing the algorithm, so it's not "nice".

Gonzalo

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[sage-devel] Re: Sage 4.0.rc0 released!

[mabshoff]

On May 22, 1:46 am, "Dr. David Kirkby" 
wrote:
> mabshoff wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > I gotta run to the airport, but sources and upgrade bits of 4.0.rc0
> > are in
>
> >    http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/mabshoff/release-cycles-4.0/rc0/
>
> I must say, it's looking better on Solaris.

;)

> Before going to bed, I started to build 4.0.rc0. I woke up this morning,
> and found it is still in the build process. I don't think it has ever
> run anything like that time before it has stopped.

Well, I never really had problems to get Sage to build, but then I
tended to fix the bugs on the fly.

> My machine is quite heavily loaded (load average 3.7) which is due to
> some other processes running, which have been running for weeks, so
> would have been running when I tried to build sage-4.0.alpha0
>
> So, based on this very scientific measure of starting to compile Sage
> before I sent to bed, and Sage still compiling now (and hour or so after
> I got up), that is a definite improvement on Solaris!
>
> Dave

Anyway, we need a formal review of

#6104: Michael Abshoff: Fix Solaris specific build issue for
libfplll.spkg [Needs review]

All that is changed is a fix to dpe.h to make it compile on Solaris.
The fix is even guarded, so nothing that does not define __sun is
affected.

Cheers,

Michael
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[sage-devel] Re: notebook problems /w chrome 2

[Brendan]

Hi, I was the one who originally reported the bug - both to Chrome dev
team and the SAGE bugtracker.

FYI Chrome 2 beta has now become the stable and updates are silent and
forced with no possible way back to previous versions :-(

Regardless of the merits of this policy, Chrome's share is already
more than safari and opera and I'd speculate that usage amongst web-
savvy users (incl. academics) is pretty high. For these reasons I'd
say it is worthwhile looking into fixing this.

Brendan

On Apr 11, 1:59 pm, Jason Grout  wrote:
> Harald Schilly wrote:
>
> > On Apr 9, 9:28 pm, Jason Grout  wrote:
> >> I've installed Chromium on Ubuntu (I think there's even a .deb for it).
>
> > there is no working native linux build ofchromeor chromium. only
> > something very old for wine.
> > the branch for linux development has some sort of test gui, but it's
> > really not useable at all...
>
> Well, it's minimally useable, I think.
>
> I used:
>
> debhttp://kheb.homelinux.org/debianunstable main
> debhttp://ppa.launchpad.net/chromium-daily/ppa/ubuntuintrepid main
> deb-srchttp://ppa.launchpad.net/chromium-daily/ppa/ubuntuintrepid main
>
> Jason

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[sage-devel] Re: A bug in multi-variate polynomial ring

[John H Palmieri]

On May 22, 4:16 am, Martin Albrecht 
wrote:
> On Friday 22 May 2009, John Cremona wrote:
>
> > There are 3 conventions for the degree of the 0 polynomial, none of which
> > is 0:
>
> > (1) None (a bit lazy and hard to work with in most non-python languages)
> > (2) -1     (rather arbitrary, I think, it just has the useful property
> > of being strictly less than any other degree)
> > (3) -Infinity (less arbitrary, also less then any other degree, makes
> > formulas like deg(fg)=deg(f)+deg(g) work in all cases, and fits in
> > best with more highbrow concepts such as valuations).
>
> IIRC we had this discussion a while back and settled for -1 for performance
> reasons. I can't find that old discussion now though.

I think it's here:

http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel/browse_thread/thread/5da37697486b4c58/f12287f00af7e8a1?hl=en&tvc=2&q=degree+laurent#f12287f00af7e8a1

  John

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[sage-devel] Thread for random comments about pynac review

[kcrisman]

My apologies if these comments belong on the ticket; my original
intent was simply to assist the "official" referees of this stuff in
case they missed them (assuming that they are in fact problems), but
it seems now have pointed out things that just possibly might engender
discussion, so I figure I'll post them here.  Everything refers to
changes of one kind or another brought on by the Pynac switch to
things in sage.calculus.

1. This is a very naive comment, but why are all the calculus/
calculus.py methods not in the form
{{{
function(self,parameters)
}}}
and instead in the form
{{{
function(ex,parameters)
}}}
or
{{{
function(expression,parameters)
}}}
?  I understand why - in some sense it makes more sense than the usual
convention - but it runs counter to all other files I've seen, where
self is the first argument, including the same functions in the old
calculus/calculus.py.

2. Also (unrelated), in calculus/all.py, we import diff, derivative,
expand, taylor, simplify from calculus/functional.py, but does not
import lim, limit, integral, or integrate.  As a result, the
docstrings for these functions are not the ones from calculus/
functional.py, but from calculus/calculus.py.  That isn't a problem
for limit or lim, because the docstring there seems to be slightly
better than the one in calculus/functional.py, but...

The one for integral/integrate is woefully tiny, coming as it does
from misc/functional.py (???), and doesn't even mention definite
integration.  (Note that previously integral? and integrate? gave
different docstrings, which was already weird.)  I suppose a side
issue is whether one needs them in calculus/functional.py at all if
they aren't imported, though if not the docstring issue should be
improved.

3. Also, in functional.py line 297 it should probably be "allows more
limits to be calculated", not "allows more integrals to be
calculated".  I think this occurs both places this docstring exists,
so it is likely from before the switch.

I hope such nitpicky things are okay.
- kcrisman
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[sage-devel] Re: Thread for random comments about pynac review

[kcrisman]

> 1. This is a very naive comment, but why are all the calculus/
> calculus.py methods not in the form
> {{{
> function(self,parameters)}}}
>
> and instead in the form
> {{{
> function(ex,parameters)}}}
>
> or
> {{{
> function(expression,parameters)}}}
>
> ?  I understand why - in some sense it makes more sense than the usual
> convention - but it runs counter to all other files I've seen, where
> self is the first argument, including the same functions in the old
> calculus/calculus.py.

I think I answered this myself, sorry - they are not any longer
methods of a class.

But then it is even weirder that we have two functional versions of
"integral", one in misc/functional and the other in calculus/calculus
(not to mention calculus/functional).   Note that in fact the
docstring for calculus/calculus.py passes tests but is (implicitly)
testing the wrong functional integral, because the globally defined
integral calls only f.integral, while the integral defined in calculus/
calculus.py is different.  In fact:
{{{
 sage: integrate(sin,0,1)
Traceback (most recent call last):
...
TypeError
}}}
as before, because it is trying to coerce sin to SR and then
apply .integral but never gets there (and hence never uses this
integral function), while
{{{
sage: from sage.calculus.calculus import integral as cool_integral
sage: cool_integral(sin,0,1)
-cos(1) + 1
}}}
Which IMHO, which I know is not shared, is correct.  [ I will even
concede that the indefinite integral of sin could happily throw an
error, but this case is unambiguous and the code is right there in
calculus/calculus.py, which never asks anyone to evaluate f=x^2 as a
callable, I promise :) ]

Anyway, calculus.calculus integral is used by symbolic.expression
self.integral, so it's not like the code is unused, but somewhere it
seems like there is redundancy here, and I figured this was worth
pointing out, even though I am not sure which one should be considered
redundant.

- kcrisman
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[sage-devel] Re: A bug in multi-variate polynomial ring

[Kwankyu]

I would love R(0).degree() == -Infinity. But if there is a compelling
reason such as performance or history, -1 is just ok...

Kwankyu

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[sage-devel] Re: A bug in multi-variate polynomial ring

[John Cremona]

2009/5/22 John H Palmieri :
>
>
>
> On May 22, 4:16 am, Martin Albrecht 
> wrote:
>> On Friday 22 May 2009, John Cremona wrote:
>>
>> > There are 3 conventions for the degree of the 0 polynomial, none of which
>> > is 0:
>>
>> > (1) None (a bit lazy and hard to work with in most non-python languages)
>> > (2) -1     (rather arbitrary, I think, it just has the useful property
>> > of being strictly less than any other degree)
>> > (3) -Infinity (less arbitrary, also less then any other degree, makes
>> > formulas like deg(fg)=deg(f)+deg(g) work in all cases, and fits in
>> > best with more highbrow concepts such as valuations).
>>
>> IIRC we had this discussion a while back and settled for -1 for performance
>> reasons. I can't find that old discussion now though.
>
> I think it's here:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel/browse_thread/thread/5da37697486b4c58/f12287f00af7e8a1?hl=en&tvc=2&q=degree+laurent#f12287f00af7e8a1
>

Thanks John -- I thought it all sounded familiar!  I am pleased to say
that my 2008 and 2009 opinions are consistent, anyway.

John


>  John
>
> >
>

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[sage-devel] Re: 2d math input

[Serge A. Salamanka]

It will be great to enable Sage with 2D input.

Any ideas how to do this ?

#Serge

jason-s...@creativetrax.com пишет:
> Ben Woodruff wrote:
>> Do you know if 2D math input is in the process of being developed, 
>> such as being able to type matrices in matrix format instead of having 
>> to create a list of lists.
> I assume you mean like how Mathematica uses ctrl-enter and ctrl-comma to 
> create a grid of inputs in their notebook.  As far as I know, there is 
> no one actively developing 2d math input in Sage.  One issue is that 
> currently, anything you can type into the notebook, you can also type 
> into the command line or into a script.  That is very nice (sort of like 
> some of the good statistical packages always make sure that anything you 
> can do, you can also from the command line and in a script).
> 
> Well, I take that back.  There are a couple of people actively 
> developing a graph editor (graphs as in vertices and edges).  You'd be 
> able to point and click to create and edit graphs.  I think the idea is 
> that it would then spit back into a cell the text that is equivalent to 
> what you pointed and clicked.
> 
> I can see it being fairly easy to make a small little popup window that 
> lets you type in a matrix as a grid, and then when you close the
> window, it inserts the corresponding code for creating a matrix into the 
> current position of a cell.
> 
> Also, as I mentioned earlier, there is a 2d math equation editor that 
> Davide Cervone started (the author of jsmath).  A while ago he mentioned 
> that a student was working on it, but I don't know if anything has come 
> out of it yet.
> 
> I'm forwarding this reply to the sage-devel mailing list.  Someone there 
> may know of someone working on 2d math input.
> 
> Jason
> 
> 
> > 
> 

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[sage-devel] Re: 2d math input

[Bill Page]

It might be a stretch to fit this into the Sage NoteBook but the
MathDox formula editor

  http://www.mathdox.org/formulaeditor/

might be a good starting point. The intermediate format produced by
the formula editor is actually OpenMath and in principle OpenMath was
designed for just this sort of purpose.

Apparently MathDox itself

http://www.mathdox.org

already has some support for Mathematica, Maxima and GAP.

Regards,
Bill Page.

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Serge A. Salamanka  wrote:
>
> It will be great to enable Sage with 2D input.
>
> Any ideas how to do this ?
>
> #Serge
>
> jason-s...@creativetrax.com пишет:
>> Ben Woodruff wrote:
>>> Do you know if 2D math input is in the process of being developed,
>>> such as being able to type matrices in matrix format instead of having
>>> to create a list of lists.
>> I assume you mean like how Mathematica uses ctrl-enter and ctrl-comma to
>> create a grid of inputs in their notebook.  As far as I know, there is
>> no one actively developing 2d math input in Sage.  One issue is that
>> currently, anything you can type into the notebook, you can also type
>> into the command line or into a script.  That is very nice (sort of like
>> some of the good statistical packages always make sure that anything you
>> can do, you can also from the command line and in a script).
>>
>> Well, I take that back.  There are a couple of people actively
>> developing a graph editor (graphs as in vertices and edges).  You'd be
>> able to point and click to create and edit graphs.  I think the idea is
>> that it would then spit back into a cell the text that is equivalent to
>> what you pointed and clicked.
>>
>> I can see it being fairly easy to make a small little popup window that
>> lets you type in a matrix as a grid, and then when you close the
>> window, it inserts the corresponding code for creating a matrix into the
>> current position of a cell.
>>
>> Also, as I mentioned earlier, there is a 2d math equation editor that
>> Davide Cervone started (the author of jsmath).  A while ago he mentioned
>> that a student was working on it, but I don't know if anything has come
>> out of it yet.
>>
>> I'm forwarding this reply to the sage-devel mailing list.  Someone there
>> may know of someone working on 2d math input.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>
> >
>

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[sage-devel] Re: 1) SAGE-WN distribution for cluster worker nodes

[Serge A. Salamanka]

Well, everything you said is true.
But I need to recommend Sage for installation to other people.

I guess this is not very important at the first stage. So I'll proceed
with Ganga and DIANE.

Several admins from BalticGrid didn't object compiling Sage for
installations, so an rpm package may not be needed too.

Thank you for comments.
It may have been a bad idea to cut Sage into pieces.
I found SPD. A great thing that could be worked on.

So for now there is nothing to say more in this topic.

#Serge

Jason Grout пишет:
> Disclaimer: I may not know what I'm talking about here :).
> 
> Serge A. Salamanka wrote:
>>
>> William Stein пишет:
>>> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 3:47 AM, Serge A. Salamanka  
>>> wrote:
 If no objection I'll post here for possible comments and guidelines.

 First thing that I'm trying to do is to make a distribution of SAGE that
 could be recommended for installation on worker nodes of large clusters
 in supercomputing centers.
 After BG-II project meeting it was decided to recommend Sage as a
 service for gLite-sites.
 So the need is to produce a safe package for WNs.
 Safe means secure and safe to install in the cluster infrastructure.
>>> I think it is completely impossible to make Sage "secure and safe to
>>> install".  What
>>> do you even mean by "secure and safe"?
>>>
>>> William
>>>
>> I mean that there should be no possibility to access the WN from outside
>> using some unknown to me features of twisted.
> 
> Wouldn't it be better to do a firewall and network filtering?  Then you 
> aren't depending on a program playing nice.
> 
> 
> 
>> It is better to strip off the software from unnecessary functionality.
>> The worker node should (in my view) be able to execute sage and python
>> scripts. Everything else is not needed.
>>
>> In the term of "safe" I put stability of use by many users in the system
>> which is not going to stall the machine.
> 
> 
> Well, again, you can do a fork bomb in most languages and stall a 
> machine.  Seems like it'd be better to handle that problem via resource 
> limits.
> 
> 
>> So, as it comes out of your question there is no point to do anything
>> with Sage to install it on worker nodes. Might be the only thing is to
>> pack it into rpm for Scientific Linux.
> 
> Good point.
> 
> Jason
> 
> 
> 

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[sage-devel] Re: 2d math input

[William Stein]

2009/5/22 Bill Page :
>
> It might be a stretch to fit this into the Sage NoteBook but the
> MathDox formula editor
>
>  http://www.mathdox.org/formulaeditor/
>
> might be a good starting point.

To me that looks less capable and more ugly than the jsmath equation editor.

William

>The intermediate format produced by
> the formula editor is actually OpenMath and in principle OpenMath was
> designed for just this sort of purpose.
>
> Apparently MathDox itself
>
> http://www.mathdox.org
>
> already has some support for Mathematica, Maxima and GAP.
>
> Regards,
> Bill Page.
>
> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Serge A. Salamanka  wrote:
>>
>> It will be great to enable Sage with 2D input.
>>
>> Any ideas how to do this ?
>>
>> #Serge
>>
>> jason-s...@creativetrax.com пишет:
>>> Ben Woodruff wrote:
 Do you know if 2D math input is in the process of being developed,
 such as being able to type matrices in matrix format instead of having
 to create a list of lists.
>>> I assume you mean like how Mathematica uses ctrl-enter and ctrl-comma to
>>> create a grid of inputs in their notebook.  As far as I know, there is
>>> no one actively developing 2d math input in Sage.  One issue is that
>>> currently, anything you can type into the notebook, you can also type
>>> into the command line or into a script.  That is very nice (sort of like
>>> some of the good statistical packages always make sure that anything you
>>> can do, you can also from the command line and in a script).
>>>
>>> Well, I take that back.  There are a couple of people actively
>>> developing a graph editor (graphs as in vertices and edges).  You'd be
>>> able to point and click to create and edit graphs.  I think the idea is
>>> that it would then spit back into a cell the text that is equivalent to
>>> what you pointed and clicked.
>>>
>>> I can see it being fairly easy to make a small little popup window that
>>> lets you type in a matrix as a grid, and then when you close the
>>> window, it inserts the corresponding code for creating a matrix into the
>>> current position of a cell.
>>>
>>> Also, as I mentioned earlier, there is a 2d math equation editor that
>>> Davide Cervone started (the author of jsmath).  A while ago he mentioned
>>> that a student was working on it, but I don't know if anything has come
>>> out of it yet.
>>>
>>> I'm forwarding this reply to the sage-devel mailing list.  Someone there
>>> may know of someone working on 2d math input.
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>
>> >
>>
>
> >
>



-- 
William Stein
Associate Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org

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[sage-devel] Re: 2d math input

[mabshoff]

On May 22, 11:24 am, William Stein  wrote:
> 2009/5/22 Bill Page :
>
>
>
> > It might be a stretch to fit this into the Sage NoteBook but the
> > MathDox formula editor
>
> >  http://www.mathdox.org/formulaeditor/
>
> > might be a good starting point.
>
> To me that looks less capable and more ugly than the jsmath equation editor.

And the main zip file by itself is *53* MB, but I am not 100% certain
that the browser downloading the file wasn't lying. Maybe the code
base is much smaller, but I am not going to find out until my
bandwidth is fast again :).

> William

Cheers,

Michael
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[sage-devel] Re: 2d math input

[Jaap Spies]

William Stein wrote:
> 2009/5/22 Bill Page :
>> It might be a stretch to fit this into the Sage NoteBook but the
>> MathDox formula editor
>>
>> šhttp://www.mathdox.org/formulaeditor/
>>
>> might be a good starting point.
> 
> To me that looks less capable and more ugly than the jsmath equation editor..
> 

+1

Jaap


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[sage-devel] Re: sage-4.0.alpha0 build failure on OS X PPC

[mabshoff]

On May 21, 1:19 am, gsw  wrote:
> Hi,



> using ABI="32"
>       CC="gcc -std=gnu99"
>       CFLAGS="-O2 -mpowerpc -no-cpp-precomp -force_cpusubtype_ALL"
>       CPPFLAGS=""
>       CXX="g++"
>       CXXFLAGS="-O2 -mpowerpc -no-cpp-precomp -force_cpusubtype_ALL"
>       MPN_PATH=" powerpc32/vmx powerpc32 powerpc32 generic"
>
> From the configuration output of the install.log you posted:
> ...
> checking build system type... powerpc7450-apple-darwin9.7.0
> ...
> using ABI="32"
>       CC="gcc -std=gnu99"
>       CFLAGS="-I/sw/include"
>       CPPFLAGS="-I/sw/include"
>       CXX="g++"
>       CXXFLAGS="-I/sw/include"
>       MPN_PATH=" powerpc32/vmx powerpc32 powerpc32 generic"
>
> So there is some misconfiguration happening --- the mpir maintainers
> probably will find a solution quickly.
> (Beware, I'm uneasy about the occurence of the MacPorts (or Fink?)
> path "-I/sw/include" here.)

Yes, CFLAGS seems completely wrong. I have a patch that will not let
the user set custom [C|CPP|LD]FLAGS unless explicitly forcing Sage to
do so and it will print a big, fat warning in install.log. I doubt
this is Sage's fault, but I guess looking at MPIR's config.log in spkg/
build/gmp-mpir.../src/src should help.

Oh well.

> Cheers,
> gsw

Cheers,

Michael
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[sage-devel] Re: 2d math input

[Bill Page]

Where can I find and/or test "jsmath equation editor"?

How difficult might it be to convert the output of this editor to input to Sage?

2009/5/22 William Stein :
>
> 2009/5/22 Bill Page :
>>
>> It might be a stretch to fit this into the Sage NoteBook but the
>> MathDox formula editor
>>
>>  http://www.mathdox.org/formulaeditor/
>>
>> might be a good starting point.
>
> To me that looks less capable and more ugly than the jsmath equation editor.
>
> William
>
>>The intermediate format produced by
>> the formula editor is actually OpenMath and in principle OpenMath was
>> designed for just this sort of purpose.
>>
>> Apparently MathDox itself
>>
>> http://www.mathdox.org
>>
>> already has some support for Mathematica, Maxima and GAP.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bill Page.
>>
>> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Serge A. Salamanka  wrote:
>>>
>>> It will be great to enable Sage with 2D input.
>>>
>>> Any ideas how to do this ?
>>>
>>> #Serge
>>>

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[sage-devel] Re: Sage 4.0.rc0 released!

[Robert Bradshaw]

I wasn't able to build on OS X 10.4 intel:

[...]
gcc -std=gnu99 -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../.. -I../.. -I../../ 
tests-m32 -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer -mtune=nocona -march=nocona -c  
t-locale.c
/bin/sh ../../libtool --tag=CC --mode=link gcc -std=gnu99  -m32 -O2 - 
fomit-frame-pointer -mtune=nocona -march=nocona   -o t-locale  t- 
locale.o ../../tests/libtests.la ../../libmpir.la
gcc -std=gnu99 -m32 -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer -mtune=nocona - 
march=nocona -o .libs/t-locale t-locale.o  ../../tests/.libs/ 
libtests.a /Users/robert/sage/sage-4.0.rc0/spkg/build/gmp-mpir-1.1.1/ 
src/.libs/libmpir.dylib ../../.libs/libmpir.dylib
i686-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1: t-locale.o: No such file or directory
make[6]: *** [t-locale] Error 1
make[5]: *** [check-am] Error 2
make[4]: *** [check-recursive] Error 1
make[3]: *** [check-recursive] Error 1
make[2]: *** [check] Error 2

real7m30.832s
user3m10.400s
sys 3m27.151s
sage: An error occurred while installing gmp-mpir-1.1.1

Full log at http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/robertwb/4.0rc0.log

- Robert


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[sage-devel] Re: sage-4.0.rc0 - division bug on second and subsequent evaluation of cell?

[Robert Bradshaw]

On May 22, 2009, at 3:36 AM, Kevin Horton wrote:

> I am using sage-4.0.rc0 on 32 bit ubuntu 8.10.
>
> I have discovered a very strange interaction between the "Integer=int"
> declaration, division, and the number of times a worksheet is  
> evaluated.

This is an error due to literal constant extraction, I thought there  
was a ticket for this on trac but was unable to find it for the moment.

> Consider the following worksheet.  The very first time it is
> evaluated, division is handled as float division, and the results are
> what I hoped for.  But, if I evaluate the cell again, I get a
> different answer.  This time the division seems to be python integer
> division, and I get a different result.  I keep getting this second
> result until I restart the worksheet, then I get the first result for
> a single evaluation.
>
> Regardless of what the correct behaviour is, I would hope to get the
> same behaviour every time I evaluate the worksheet.  This looks like a
> bug to me.
>
> 
> First evaluation after restarting worksheet:
>
> Division Error?
> system:sage
>
> {{{id=2|
> Integer=int
>
> print float(500/1000), float(1000/1000)
> print float(500/1000.), float(1000/1000.)
> ///
>
> 0.5 1.0
> 0.5 1.0
> }}}

To see what is really going on, this gets turned into

{{{
print sage.misc.preparser.preparse_file("""
Integer=int

print float(500/1000), float(1000/1000)
print float(500/1000.), float(1000/1000.)
""")
///
_sage_const_500 = Integer(500); _sage_const_1000 = Integer(1000);
_sage_const_1000p = RealNumber('1000.')
Integer=int

print float(_sage_const_500 /_sage_const_1000 ), float 
(_sage_const_1000/_sage_const_1000 )
print float(_sage_const_500 /_sage_const_1000p ), float 
(_sage_const_1000/_sage_const_1000p )
}}}

We do this to avoid the (large) overhead of re-creating constants in  
the bodies of loops, functions, etc. Perhaps we need to detect the  
Integer=xxx line explicitly?

- Robert


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[sage-devel] Re: 2d math input

[Ben Goodrich]

On May 22, 1:52 pm, "Serge A. Salamanka"  wrote:
> It will be great to enable Sage with 2D input.
>
> Any ideas how to do this ?
>
> #Serge

R has 2D input for numerics or characters that conceivably could be
wrapped and parsed by Sage. Still ugly though.

Ben

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[sage-devel] Re: sage-4.0.rc0 - division bug on second and subsequent evaluation of cell?

[Kevin Horton]

On 22 May 2009, at 16:07, Robert Bradshaw wrote:

> On May 22, 2009, at 3:36 AM, Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>> I am using sage-4.0.rc0 on 32 bit ubuntu 8.10.
>>
>> I have discovered a very strange interaction between the  
>> "Integer=int"
>> declaration, division, and the number of times a worksheet is
>> evaluated.
>
> This is an error due to literal constant extraction, I thought there
> was a ticket for this on trac but was unable to find it for the  
> moment.
>
>> Consider the following worksheet.  The very first time it is
>> evaluated, division is handled as float division, and the results are
>> what I hoped for.  But, if I evaluate the cell again, I get a
>> different answer.  This time the division seems to be python integer
>> division, and I get a different result.  I keep getting this second
>> result until I restart the worksheet, then I get the first result for
>> a single evaluation.
>>
>> Regardless of what the correct behaviour is, I would hope to get the
>> same behaviour every time I evaluate the worksheet.  This looks  
>> like a
>> bug to me.
>>
>> 
>> First evaluation after restarting worksheet:
>>
>> Division Error?
>> system:sage
>>
>> {{{id=2|
>> Integer=int
>>
>> print float(500/1000), float(1000/1000)
>> print float(500/1000.), float(1000/1000.)
>> ///
>>
>> 0.5 1.0
>> 0.5 1.0
>> }}}
>
> To see what is really going on, this gets turned into
>
> {{{
> print sage.misc.preparser.preparse_file("""
> Integer=int
>
> print float(500/1000), float(1000/1000)
> print float(500/1000.), float(1000/1000.)
> """)
> ///
> _sage_const_500 = Integer(500); _sage_const_1000 = Integer(1000);
> _sage_const_1000p = RealNumber('1000.')
> Integer=int
>
> print float(_sage_const_500 /_sage_const_1000 ), float
> (_sage_const_1000/_sage_const_1000 )
> print float(_sage_const_500 /_sage_const_1000p ), float
> (_sage_const_1000/_sage_const_1000p )
> }}}
>
> We do this to avoid the (large) overhead of re-creating constants in
> the bodies of loops, functions, etc. Perhaps we need to detect the
> Integer=xxx line explicitly?

Thanks for the info.  I still don't understand why the results are  
different the second time the cell is evaluated.  But, I'm not a  
developer, so it really isn't important that I understand this.

I think it is a very bad situation if a worksheet cell yields  
different results depending on how many times it has been evaluated.   
In my opinion this is a big bug.

The conclusion I have drawn for the moment is that I need to stop  
using Integer=int and Float=float.  Instead I will have to wrap each  
problematic call to matplotlib.pyplot in float() or int().  I will  
also look deeper into sage's plotting, to see if there is a better way  
to make my plots, rather than using matplotlib.pyplot.

--
Kevin Horton
Ottawa, Canada




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[sage-devel] Re: 2d math input

[Jason Grout]

Serge A. Salamanka wrote:
> It will be great to enable Sage with 2D input.
> 
> Any ideas how to do this ?
> 

One easy thing to do would be to have a bunch of "helpers" for easy 
things, like matrices.  A student clicks on a button, and a javascript 
window pops up that lets them specify the size, entries (in tabular 
form) and possibly a base ring for a matrix.  When they click "submit" 
or something, it pastes the code for that matrix into the current cursor 
position.

At least I think this would be easy.

Jason



> #Serge
> 
> jason-s...@creativetrax.com пишет:
>> Ben Woodruff wrote:
>>> Do you know if 2D math input is in the process of being developed, 
>>> such as being able to type matrices in matrix format instead of having 
>>> to create a list of lists.
>> I assume you mean like how Mathematica uses ctrl-enter and ctrl-comma to 
>> create a grid of inputs in their notebook.  As far as I know, there is 
>> no one actively developing 2d math input in Sage.  One issue is that 
>> currently, anything you can type into the notebook, you can also type 
>> into the command line or into a script.  That is very nice (sort of like 
>> some of the good statistical packages always make sure that anything you 
>> can do, you can also from the command line and in a script).
>>
>> Well, I take that back.  There are a couple of people actively 
>> developing a graph editor (graphs as in vertices and edges).  You'd be 
>> able to point and click to create and edit graphs.  I think the idea is 
>> that it would then spit back into a cell the text that is equivalent to 
>> what you pointed and clicked.
>>
>> I can see it being fairly easy to make a small little popup window that 
>> lets you type in a matrix as a grid, and then when you close the
>> window, it inserts the corresponding code for creating a matrix into the 
>> current position of a cell.
>>
>> Also, as I mentioned earlier, there is a 2d math equation editor that 
>> Davide Cervone started (the author of jsmath).  A while ago he mentioned 
>> that a student was working on it, but I don't know if anything has come 
>> out of it yet.
>>
>> I'm forwarding this reply to the sage-devel mailing list.  Someone there 
>> may know of someone working on 2d math input.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
> 
> > 
> 


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[sage-devel] Re: sage-4.0.rc0 - division bug on second and subsequent evaluation of cell?

[Franco Saliola]

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Kevin Horton  wrote:
>
> On 22 May 2009, at 16:07, Robert Bradshaw wrote:
>
>> On May 22, 2009, at 3:36 AM, Kevin Horton wrote:
>>
>>> I am using sage-4.0.rc0 on 32 bit ubuntu 8.10.
>>>
>>> I have discovered a very strange interaction between the
>>> "Integer=int"
>>> declaration, division, and the number of times a worksheet is
>>> evaluated.
>>
>> This is an error due to literal constant extraction, I thought there
>> was a ticket for this on trac but was unable to find it for the
>> moment.
>>
>>> Consider the following worksheet.  The very first time it is
>>> evaluated, division is handled as float division, and the results are
>>> what I hoped for.  But, if I evaluate the cell again, I get a
>>> different answer.  This time the division seems to be python integer
>>> division, and I get a different result.  I keep getting this second
>>> result until I restart the worksheet, then I get the first result for
>>> a single evaluation.
>>>
>>> Regardless of what the correct behaviour is, I would hope to get the
>>> same behaviour every time I evaluate the worksheet.  This looks
>>> like a
>>> bug to me.
>>>
>>> 
>>> First evaluation after restarting worksheet:
>>>
>>> Division Error?
>>> system:sage
>>>
>>> {{{id=2|
>>> Integer=int
>>>
>>> print float(500/1000), float(1000/1000)
>>> print float(500/1000.), float(1000/1000.)
>>> ///
>>>
>>> 0.5 1.0
>>> 0.5 1.0
>>> }}}
>>
>> To see what is really going on, this gets turned into
>>
>> {{{
>> print sage.misc.preparser.preparse_file("""
>> Integer=int
>>
>> print float(500/1000), float(1000/1000)
>> print float(500/1000.), float(1000/1000.)
>> """)
>> ///
>> _sage_const_500 = Integer(500); _sage_const_1000 = Integer(1000);
>> _sage_const_1000p = RealNumber('1000.')
>> Integer=int
>>
>> print float(_sage_const_500 /_sage_const_1000 ), float
>> (_sage_const_1000/_sage_const_1000 )
>> print float(_sage_const_500 /_sage_const_1000p ), float
>> (_sage_const_1000/_sage_const_1000p )
>> }}}
>>
>> We do this to avoid the (large) overhead of re-creating constants in
>> the bodies of loops, functions, etc. Perhaps we need to detect the
>> Integer=xxx line explicitly?
>
> Thanks for the info.  I still don't understand why the results are
> different the second time the cell is evaluated.  But, I'm not a
> developer, so it really isn't important that I understand this.

In the above preparsed code, you find the line

 _sage_const_500 = Integer(500);

and it appears before the "Integer = int" definition. This means that
the first time the cell is executed, _sage_const_500 is defined using
the original definition of Integer, whereas the second (and
subsequent) times the cell is executed, _sage_const_500 is defined to
be int(500) because Integer has been redefined.

So if you execute Integer=int in a different cell, then you won't see
this problem.

Franco

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[sage-devel] Re: sage-4.0.rc0 - division bug on second and subsequent evaluation of cell?

[Nick Alexander]

> We do this to avoid the (large) overhead of re-creating constants in
> the bodies of loops, functions, etc. Perhaps we need to detect the
> Integer=xxx line explicitly?

Doing this accurately is equivalent to the halting problem.  This is  
what pragmas are for, but do we really want to start supporting all  
these compiler features?  When is sage no longer python?

Nick

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[sage-devel] Re: 2d math input

[Nick Alexander]

> One easy thing to do would be to have a bunch of "helpers" for easy
> things, like matrices.

Isn't this what interact is good for?

Nick

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[sage-devel] Re: 2d math input

[Jason Grout]

Bill Page wrote:
> Where can I find and/or test "jsmath equation editor"?

I guess it's a little confusing to call it that, since mathdox 
apparently uses jsmath too.  What we are referring to is an equation 
editor that Davide (the author of jsmath) wrote:

http://www.math.union.edu/~dpvc/talks/2006-12-08.IMA/editor.html

It's really pretty nice.  Davide says it is not yet finished, though, 
and isn't ready to be used.  See 
http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel/browse_thread/thread/e23cde79a12fd0aa/d30845b59f391acf?lnk=gst&q=davide+editor#d30845b59f391acf

Thanks,

Jason


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[sage-devel] Re: 2d math input

[Jason Grout]

Nick Alexander wrote:
>> One easy thing to do would be to have a bunch of "helpers" for easy
>> things, like matrices.
> 
> Isn't this what interact is good for?


The use case:

one of my linear algebra students wants to input a matrix as a table. 
They click on a button, enter the entries, click submit, and then blam, 
the matrix is sitting right there in the cell waiting for them to do 
something with it.

I don't think interacts are nearly that simple for a user to just enter 
a matrix.  For one, the user would first have to define the function. 
Then how would the user use the matrix they put in?

Jason


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[sage-devel] Re: sage-4.0.rc0 - division bug on second and subsequent evaluation of cell?

[Kevin Horton]

On 22 May 2009, at 16:56, Franco Saliola wrote:

> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Kevin Horton  
>  wrote:
>>
>> On 22 May 2009, at 16:07, Robert Bradshaw wrote:
>>
>>> On May 22, 2009, at 3:36 AM, Kevin Horton wrote:
>>>
 I am using sage-4.0.rc0 on 32 bit ubuntu 8.10.

 I have discovered a very strange interaction between the
 "Integer=int"
 declaration, division, and the number of times a worksheet is
 evaluated.
>>>
>>> This is an error due to literal constant extraction, I thought there
>>> was a ticket for this on trac but was unable to find it for the
>>> moment.
>>>
 Consider the following worksheet.  The very first time it is
 evaluated, division is handled as float division, and the results  
 are
 what I hoped for.  But, if I evaluate the cell again, I get a
 different answer.  This time the division seems to be python  
 integer
 division, and I get a different result.  I keep getting this second
 result until I restart the worksheet, then I get the first result  
 for
 a single evaluation.

 Regardless of what the correct behaviour is, I would hope to get  
 the
 same behaviour every time I evaluate the worksheet.  This looks
 like a
 bug to me.

 
 First evaluation after restarting worksheet:

 Division Error?
 system:sage

 {{{id=2|
 Integer=int

 print float(500/1000), float(1000/1000)
 print float(500/1000.), float(1000/1000.)
 ///

 0.5 1.0
 0.5 1.0
 }}}
>>>
>>> To see what is really going on, this gets turned into
>>>
>>> {{{
>>> print sage.misc.preparser.preparse_file("""
>>> Integer=int
>>>
>>> print float(500/1000), float(1000/1000)
>>> print float(500/1000.), float(1000/1000.)
>>> """)
>>> ///
>>> _sage_const_500 = Integer(500); _sage_const_1000 = Integer(1000);
>>> _sage_const_1000p = RealNumber('1000.')
>>> Integer=int
>>>
>>> print float(_sage_const_500 /_sage_const_1000 ), float
>>> (_sage_const_1000/_sage_const_1000 )
>>> print float(_sage_const_500 /_sage_const_1000p ), float
>>> (_sage_const_1000/_sage_const_1000p )
>>> }}}
>>>
>>> We do this to avoid the (large) overhead of re-creating constants in
>>> the bodies of loops, functions, etc. Perhaps we need to detect the
>>> Integer=xxx line explicitly?
>>
>> Thanks for the info.  I still don't understand why the results are
>> different the second time the cell is evaluated.  But, I'm not a
>> developer, so it really isn't important that I understand this.
>
> In the above preparsed code, you find the line
>
> _sage_const_500 = Integer(500);
>
> and it appears before the "Integer = int" definition. This means that
> the first time the cell is executed, _sage_const_500 is defined using
> the original definition of Integer, whereas the second (and
> subsequent) times the cell is executed, _sage_const_500 is defined to
> be int(500) because Integer has been redefined.
>
> So if you execute Integer=int in a different cell, then you won't see
> this problem.


Ahh.  Now I understand.  Thanks.

But, this tells me that I have another issue to look for.  I had noted  
that a couple of cells in a large worksheet did not always produce the  
same result.  I was slowly paring down the code, trying to find the  
specific code and triggers for the problem.  I noted the anomaly in  
this thread, and thought that it could have been the cause for the  
strange behaviour I was seeing.  But this worksheet only has the  
Integer=int at the very top, so this could not have caused what I  
saw.  I will keep looking.
--
Kevin Horton
Ottawa, Canada




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[sage-devel] Re: 2d math input

[Nick Alexander]

> I don't think interacts are nearly that simple for a user to just  
> enter
> a matrix.  For one, the user would first have to define the function.
> Then how would the user use the matrix they put in?


I am imagining a syntax such as M = interact_matrix(nrows, ncols),  
where the sage library provides interact_matrix or similar.

Does an interacted function not return a value?  (If not, I think  
that's a design flaw.)

Nick

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[sage-devel] Re: sage-4.0.rc0 - division bug on second and subsequent evaluation of cell?

[Robert Bradshaw]

On May 22, 2009, at 2:00 PM, Nick Alexander wrote:

>> We do this to avoid the (large) overhead of re-creating constants in
>> the bodies of loops, functions, etc. Perhaps we need to detect the
>> Integer=xxx line explicitly?
>
> Doing this accurately is equivalent to the halting problem.

Yep. Detecting an assignment to Integer (RealNumber, ...) should be  
sufficient to eliminate most headaches, especially as this simple  
assignment is what we tell users to do.

> This is what pragmas are for, but do we really want to start  
> supporting all
> these compiler features?  When is sage no longer python?

A long time ago, e.g. when we started using Integer(...) to wrap  
integer literals. Despite my work on the preparser, I'm all for  
keeping it minimal.

- Robert


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[sage-devel] Re: Sage 4.0.rc0 released!

[Dr. David Kirkby]

mabshoff wrote:
> 
> 
> On May 22, 1:46 am, "Dr. David Kirkby" 
> wrote:
>> mabshoff wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I gotta run to the airport, but sources and upgrade bits of 4.0.rc0
>>> are in
>>>http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/mabshoff/release-cycles-4.0/rc0/
>> I must say, it's looking better on Solaris.
> 
> ;)
> 
>> Before going to bed, I started to build 4.0.rc0. I woke up this morning,
>> and found it is still in the build process. I don't think it has ever
>> run anything like that time before it has stopped.
> 
> Well, I never really had problems to get Sage to build, but then I
> tended to fix the bugs on the fly.
> 
>> My machine is quite heavily loaded (load average 3.7) which is due to
>> some other processes running, which have been running for weeks, so
>> would have been running when I tried to build sage-4.0.alpha0
>>
>> So, based on this very scientific measure of starting to compile Sage
>> before I sent to bed, and Sage still compiling now (and hour or so after
>> I got up), that is a definite improvement on Solaris!
>>
>> Dave
> 
> Anyway, we need a formal review of
> 
> #6104: Michael Abshoff: Fix Solaris specific build issue for
> libfplll.spkg [Needs review]

What's the process of the review? I'm willing to take a look at it. If 
it's written in C, then I'll feel confident at understanding it. If it's 
in C++, then I would not.


> All that is changed is a fix to dpe.h to make it compile on Solaris.
> The fix is even guarded, so nothing that does not define __sun is
> affected

> Cheers,
> 
> Michael

Well, it finally did build and a simple addition worked. The GUI did not 
however work, as http://localhost:8000

responds with:

"Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at localhost:8000."

I tried to telnet to localhost port 8000 and get a message the 
connection was refused.


Anyway, it's late here, and I'm tired so I'm not going to look at it any 
further tonight.


drkir...@kestrel:[~/sage/sage-4.0.rc0] $ ./sage
--
| Sage Version 4.0.rc0, Release Date: 2009-05-21 |
| Type notebook() for the GUI, and license() for information.|
--
sage: 12+34
46
sage: notebook()
The notebook files are stored in: /export/home/drkirkby/.sage//sage_notebook



Please choose a new password for the SAGE Notebook 'admin' user.
Do _not_ choose a stupid password, since anybody who could guess your 
password
and connect to your machine could access or delete your files.
NOTE: Only the md5 hash of the password you type is stored by SAGE.
You can change your password by typing notebook(reset=True).



Enter new password:
Retype new password:
Please login to the notebook with the username 'admin' and the above 
password.
Password changed for user 'admin'.
**
**
* Open your web browser to http://localhost:8000 *
**
**








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[sage-devel] 'view' is partially broken in notebook; need advice

[John H Palmieri]

In the notebook, view is partially broken: for viewing a single
object,

  view(ZZ[x])

works just fine, producing a nicely typeset "Z[x]".  For viewing
multiple objects, though,

  view([ZZ[x], RR, CC])

produces

  [Univariate Polynomial Ring in x over Integer Ring, Real Field with
53 bits of precision, Complex Field with 53 bits of precision]

typeset by jsMath in math mode, so there are no spaces between the
words. Very ugly. I can fix this easily enough, but my question is,
what should view([a,b,c, ...]) actually do?

1. Should it act like the command line implementation?  That is,
should it typeset a, b, c, ... *each on its own line* with *no square
brackets* at the start and end?

2. Or should it act like the code sort of does now?  That is, typeset
a, b, c, ... all on the same line, enclosed in brackets?

(It could do both with some sort of argument to toggle back and forth,
I suppose, but what should the default behavior be?)

  John

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[sage-devel] Re: sage-4.0.alpha0 build failure on OS X PPC

[Kevin Horton]

On 21 May 2009, at 04:19, gsw wrote:

> Sage-4.0.alpha0 did build fine on my G4 PowerBook 550Mhz with OS X
> 10.4.11 and Xcode 2.5. From the istall.log:
>
> gcc -std=gnu99 -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -D__GMP_WITHIN_GMP -I.. -
> DOPERATION_scan1 -O2 -mpowerpc -no-cpp-precomp -force_cpusubtype_ALL -
> c scan1.c  -fno-common -DPIC -o .libs/scan1.o
> /bin/sh ../libtool --mode=compile --tag=CC ../mpn/m4-ccas --m4="m4"
> gcc -std=gnu99 -c -DHAVE_CONFIG_H-O2 -mpowerpc -no-cpp-precomp -
> force_cpusubtype_ALL -D__GMP_WITHIN_GMP -I.. -DOPERATION_`echo
> popcount | sed 's/_$//'` -I. -I. -I..  `test -f 'popcount.asm' || echo
> './'`popcount.asm
> ../mpn/m4-ccas --m4=m4 gcc -std=gnu99 -c -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -O2 -
> mpowerpc -no-cpp-precomp -force_cpusubtype_ALL -D__GMP_WITHIN_GMP -I..
> -DOPERATION_popcount -I. -I. -I.. popcount.asm  -fno-common -DPIC -
> o .libs/popcount.o
> m4  -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -D__GMP_WITHIN_GMP -DOPERATION_popcount -DPIC
> popcount.asm >tmp-popcount.s
> gcc -std=gnu99 -c -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -O2 -mpowerpc -no-cpp-precomp -
> force_cpusubtype_ALL -D__GMP_WITHIN_GMP -I.. -DOPERATION_popcount - 
> I. -
> I. -I.. tmp-popcount.s -fno-common -DPIC -o .libs/popcount.o
> /bin/sh ../libtool --tag=CC --mode=compile gcc -std=gnu99 -
> DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -D__GMP_WITHIN_GMP -I.. -DOPERATION_`echo
> hamdist | sed 's/_$//'`-O2 -mpowerpc -no-cpp-precomp -
> force_cpusubtype_ALL -c -o hamdist.lo hamdist.c
> gcc -std=gnu99 -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -D__GMP_WITHIN_GMP -I.. -
> DOPERATION_hamdist -O2 -mpowerpc -no-cpp-precomp -force_cpusubtype_ALL
> -c hamdist.c  -fno-common -DPIC -o .libs/hamdist.o
>
> As one can see, the compilation is done *with* the option "-
> force_cpusubtype_ALL".
>
> From the configuration output of the mpir package on my system:
> ...
> checking build system type... powerpc7450-apple-darwin8.11.0
> ...
> using ABI="32"
>  CC="gcc -std=gnu99"
>  CFLAGS="-O2 -mpowerpc -no-cpp-precomp -force_cpusubtype_ALL"
>  CPPFLAGS=""
>  CXX="g++"
>  CXXFLAGS="-O2 -mpowerpc -no-cpp-precomp -force_cpusubtype_ALL"
>  MPN_PATH=" powerpc32/vmx powerpc32 powerpc32 generic"
>
> From the configuration output of the install.log you posted:
> ...
> checking build system type... powerpc7450-apple-darwin9.7.0
> ...
> using ABI="32"
>  CC="gcc -std=gnu99"
>  CFLAGS="-I/sw/include"
>  CPPFLAGS="-I/sw/include"
>  CXX="g++"
>  CXXFLAGS="-I/sw/include"
>  MPN_PATH=" powerpc32/vmx powerpc32 powerpc32 generic"
>
> So there is some misconfiguration happening --- the mpir maintainers
> probably will find a solution quickly.
> (Beware, I'm uneasy about the occurence of the MacPorts (or Fink?)
> path "-I/sw/include" here.)

Yes, that looks suspicious.  For that build, the sage install detect  
the presence of fink, and offered two options:

You should make sure MacPorts and Fink cannot be found.  Either:
(1) rename /opt/local and /sw, or
(2) change PATH and DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH

I elected option (2), and changed PATH to remove /sw/bin and /sw/ 
sbin.  DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH was not set, so I left it alone.  Maybe that  
was a mistake, but I think it was an honest mistake, apt to be made by  
users who don't know what values to set DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH.

After that build failed, sage-4.0.rc0 dropped, so I tried installing  
it.  This time I used option (1) - I renamed /sw, and the build went OK.

Perhaps the options when /sw is detected need to be reworked.  Maybe  
the user should be given specific direction on what value to set for  
DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH.

--
Kevin Horton
Ottawa, Canada




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[sage-devel] sage blog aggregation : planet.sagemath.org

[William Stein]

Hi,

Fredrik Johansson (mpmath author) posted this very nice blog post
about sage days 15:
http://fredrik-j.blogspot.com/2009/05/report-from-sage-days-15.html

He asked that it be added to planet.sagemath.org.  I realized that
nobody administers or maintains that site anymore.
It was setup by Yi Qiang, when he was an undergrad involved with Sage,
but he graduated a year ago.

Thus I'm seeking a volunteer to make sure to admin
planet.sagemath.org, i.e., add blogs to it, make sure it works well,
redo it if they know how to make it better, etc.

William

-- 
William Stein
Associate Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org

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[sage-devel] Re: 2d math input

[Bill Page]

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Jason Grout
 wrote:
>
> Bill Page wrote:
>> Where can I find and/or test "jsmath equation editor"?
>
> I guess it's a little confusing to call it that, since mathdox
> apparently uses jsmath too.

Yes.

> What we are referring to is an equation editor that Davide (the author
> of jsmath) wrote:
>
> http://www.math.union.edu/~dpvc/talks/2006-12-08.IMA/editor.html
>

Thanks for the link.

> It's really pretty nice.  Davide says it is not yet finished, though,
> and isn't ready to be used.  See
> http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel/browse_thread/thread/e23cde79a12fd0aa/d30845b59f391acf?lnk=gst&q=davide+editor#d30845b59f391acf
>

Now that I have played both editors it seems to me that they are
substantially the same. But as Davide himself suggests the "jsmath"
editor does seem somewhat less mature. A glance at some of the
javascript code seems to confirm that. So I am at a loss to understand
the comments of William and a few others who replied that they
preferred it over the MathDox editor

 http://www.mathdox.org/formulaeditor/

You can try for example inserting and editing formulas in a nested set
of matrices, etc.

One nice thing about it is that someone has already written code that
is intended to map the output to various computer algebra systems.
Surely adapting this for Sage would not be such a big deal.

Regards,
Bill Page.

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[sage-devel] Re: sage blog aggregation : planet.sagemath.org

[Minh Nguyen]

Hi William,

On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 2:49 AM, William Stein  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Fredrik Johansson (mpmath author) posted this very nice blog post
> about sage days 15:
> http://fredrik-j.blogspot.com/2009/05/report-from-sage-days-15.html

Nice post. Even though I wasn't able to attend Sage Days 15, Fredrik's
post gives me a good summary of what happened. Plus your videos and
photos of course :-)


> He asked that it be added to planet.sagemath.org.  I realized that
> nobody administers or maintains that site anymore.
> It was setup by Yi Qiang, when he was an undergrad involved with Sage,
> but he graduated a year ago.
>
> Thus I'm seeking a volunteer to make sure to admin
> planet.sagemath.org, i.e., add blogs to it, make sure it works well,
> redo it if they know how to make it better, etc.

I'm willing to give it a shot if Harald Schilly don't object. Since
starting my Wordpress blog, I've written over ten posts about Sage,
none of which were ever aggregated on the Sage planet. Having said
that, I admit that I know next to nothing about how
planet.sagemath.org works.


> William
>
> --
> William Stein
> Associate Professor of Mathematics
> University of Washington
> http://wstein.org

-- 
Regards
Minh Van Nguyen

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[sage-devel] Sage 3.4.2 Lightweight LiveCD release and feedback.

[Lucio Lastra]

Hi everyone,

Sage 3.4.2 Lightweight LiveCD has been released today. You can
download it at:

http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/luciolastra/sagelwlcd/latest/

It's greatly improved since last version thanks to Alfredo Portes and
Rob Beezer who tried it out and recommended some changes.

Greetings,

Lucio.
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