Re: [RE-wrenches] B3 Bypass breaker

[Howard Arey]

I just tried calling because anything that helps me on 120% challenges is a top 
priority with me.

 

Just got a voice recorder with no identification and elevator music…I suspect 
the cheesy video at the website with people swimming in the ocean but no view 
of the installed product never helped investors!

 

 

Howard “Scot” Arey

254-300-1228

  scot.a...@solarcentex.com

 



 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Jerry Shafer
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 2:13 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] B3 Bypass breaker

 

We tried several times but they (B3) were never able to produce, are they 
available yet, l saw them at SPI Dallas years back.

Jerry

 

On Feb 21, 2018 6:37 AM, "Dana" mailto:d...@solarwork.com> 
> wrote:

Has anyone used the B3 buss-bar bypass breaker setup yet?  
 www.qfe002.com

Were there any permitting issues?

I am running the tech sheet & compliance pages by our permitting examiners here 
in Idaho.

 



Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc. 

C - 208.721.7003 
d...@solarwork.com  

Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374

NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz 
 

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large off grid

[Howard Arey]

4 Outback Radian 8048s and 1 (or 2) RE2700 batteries.

 

 

Howard “Scot” Arey

254-300-1228

  scot.a...@solarcentex.com

 



 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Aaron Mandelkorn
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 6:29 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large off grid

 

What do you say to the person who wants "200 amp" electrical service from their 
off grid system.  I generally use Schneider xw+ inverters.  Is it even possible 
to put 4 or 6 of them together? How many radians can be put together? I'm 
curious to know how others would proceed or is this to unreasonable to spend my 
time on.

Aaron Mandelkorn
President / Founder
Renewable Energy Outfitters
www.reosolar.com  
Off Grid Depot
www.offgridnow.com  
970-596-3744



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown Again?

[Howard Arey]

I agree that the RSD requirements are too onerous and give the MI and MLPE 
players are leg up on string inverters with their add-on solutions.

 

Ditto for IFC requirements for a 3’ roof ridge setback. Still have not met a 
fire chief who says that venting is their method but when asked if they’d like 
to cede the space back by policy, the answer is, “no, why would we?”

 

Broadly speaking, energy efficiency measures mandated for “solar ready” are not 
enforced but the “safety” measure are. 

 

Probably time for an academic study figuring out the cost we have incurred in 
the pursuit of this, versus the risks avoided.  I know, I know…somebody is 
going to say, “if we’ve saved one roof fire…” But that mentality makes for a 
lot of costs, sometimes without much logical basis.

 

Scot Arey

Solar Centex

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
cwar...@entech-engineering.com
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 6:32 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Rebecca Cantwell 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown Again?

 

I think Rapid Shutdown should be scrapped professionally and personally.  It 
was ill conceived and ill written.  Anyone willing to join me in a petition to 
CMP 44 and the like, contact me off list.  

To your question directly, you have a ground mounted system and you are not 
subject to 690.12 unless your conductors are "in or on building" which i cannot 
seem to find what that actually means. Exempted are buildings that are isolated 
only for the PV system This is a big win for installers as almost everyone 
installs systems like this...   Right.They used to have a dimension to 
this, but I guess that gave installers too much information. This is a stupid 
Code addition for roof mounted pv systems, disguised as protecting 
Firefighters, but not doing so in reality. The NEC looks politically 
compromised by consultants and manufacturers who too advantage of this fear 
mongering. No other country with a pv industry has historically done this. Why 
are installers not up in arms about this?

This is the NEC reference.

690.12 Rapid Shutdown of PV Systems on Buildings. PV system circuits installed 
on or in buildings shall include a rapid shutdown function to reduce shock 
hazard for emergency responders in accordance with 690.12(A) through (D).

If your system is ground mounted, you are outside the "altruistic" intent of 
690.12 of protecting Firefighters. Put a initiation device disconnect switch at 
the array.  Any supporters of RS should chime in with the support of 690.12 and 
add clarity and guidance to those of us who actually install systems and have 
to deal with this baloney.  690.12 has caused more problems for multimode 
systems than any tariffs, which are bad enough. I don' think the industry needs 
any more "safe design and installation" assistance from the CMPs involved with 
this issue.

Chris Warfel

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 2018-08-23 00:31, Ray wrote:

Greetings fellow wrenches;

I know we have beat this many times but I once again have not been able to 
resolve the contradictory information in 690 in regards to implementing 690.12. 
 As Rebekah Hren pointed out before, the diagrams shown in Figure 690.1(b) show 
that the PV System DC Circuit stops at the PV Disconnect.  Note 2 says 
specifically the 'PV Disconnect separates the PV system from all other 
systems'.  But then in the definitions in 690.2 on the next page, the new 
definition of a PV System DC Circuit says that it includes DC to DC converter 
output circuits.  (which are Solar Edge module level controls, but could be 
interpreted as a MPPT battery charge Controller?)  

Then 690.12 which only applies to 'PV System circuits in or on buildings', says 
we have to control conductors more than 3 ft after penetrating the building.  

So in my case, I'm looking at a ground mount, and installing an external 
lockable disconnect on the wall before it goes into the building.  This will 
officially be the PV Disconnect.  In my interpretation, I should not need to do 
any Rapid Shutdown, because I've essentially prevented the PV system from ever 
entering the building at all ( based on the 5th diagram and Note 2)  However, I 
could see an AHJ claiming I had to do RS all the way to the output side of the 
charge controller.

If this were true, could I simply apply RS equipment from the PV disconnect to 
the output of the charge controller, or am I back to module level shutdown for 
my ground mounted array, or could I build a tiny building that just housed the 
PV Disconnect and take the exemption for 'buildings with the sole purpose of 
housing PV system equipment'?  

Essentially the definitions in 690.2 are too broad, and are at odds with the 
Figure and Notes of 690.1.  They really didn't fix this in the 2017 code for us 
lowly off gridders. Charge controllers are covered by article 706.23 Charge 
Control, and NOT by 690.12 at all. IMHO, the charge controller needs to be 
clearly defined and differentiated from DC to DC converte

Re: [RE-wrenches] Trackers

[Howard Arey]

1.  Limited space
2.  Utility policy cap on DC capacity installed
3.  Early adopters who value efficiency

 

I have found dual-axis trackers to be more cost effective than the conventional 
wisdom grants.

 

We use Sun Action Trackers from San Antonio. Examples at my website.

 

 

Howard “Scot” Arey

254-300-1228

  scot.a...@solarcentex.com

 



 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
solar1onl...@charter.net
Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2018 6:54 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches' 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Trackers

 

Chris,

I thought since solar PV prices have come down (understatement), is it not more 
cost effective to buy more modules than a tracker? Are there scenarios that the 
above would not ring true? (As I remember, off grid water pumping for livestock 
ponds may still be an exception as also, limited space.) Please advise.

Thanks,

Bill Loesch

Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar

314 631 1094

 

-

From: ch...@oasismontana.com  
To: "RE-wrenches"
Cc: 
Sent: Wednesday September 5 2018 3:45:25PM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trackers




Dear people:

 

What trackers are y’all using nowadays?  I have a customer (with a great site) 
who’s insisting on a pair.  We’ve sold Zomeworks and Array Technologies in the 
past, but I know there are more offerings now.

 

Thanks for the input!

 

Chris Daum

Oasis Montana Inc.

406-777-4309 or 4321

406-777-4309 fax

  www.oasismontana.com 

 

 

 

 

  

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Voltage seeking transfer switch

[Howard Arey]

ASCO 185 a solid ATS. Have used several times – no issues and good value

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Kevin Pegg
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 12:40 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Voltage seeking transfer switch

 

Hi Mac, 

 

You could look into an Auto Transfer Switch such as the ASCO 185 series that 
will do this. The larger $$ units such as the 7000 series have a lot more 
programming options in them. 

 

Kevin

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Mac Lewis
Sent: March-19-19 7:55 AM
To: RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Voltage seeking transfer switch

 

Hello Wrenches,

 

Does anyone have experience with a 200A outdoor transfer switch that will 
automatically seek voltage?  Meaning that if priority voltage source (grid) 
isn't available and second source is available it will switch to it with no 
external communication?  We are trying to do a whole house backup, and critical 
load panel isn't possible.  This may be common, I just haven't done it.

 

Thanks in advance


 

-- 

 

 

 

Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Operating Voltages Outback RE High Capacity Battery

[Howard Arey]

Might want to confirm that the FNDC Relay is off and just the AGS relay is set 
from the Mate menu.

Seems I went through this one time before and excellent Outback support quickly 
surmised the issue for me.

Scot Arey
Solar CenTex

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Mac 
Lewis
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2019 12:27 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Operating Voltages Outback RE High Capacity Battery

 

Hello Wrenches,

 

We recently inherited an Outback system that I've been keeping an eye on via 
Optics.  Its a dual stack 3648 VFXR, with about 4kW of PV with a single string 
of EnergyCell 1100RE battery bank (reported to be ~6 months old) ~.46 kWh at 
C20.

 

I have been observing how the system functions and how the voltage behaves.  We 
keep getting 2 minute voltage starts on the generator in the middle of the 
night that don't seem necessary judging from how much energy has been used from 
the battery bank.  I am hesitant to tweak anything because these battery 
set-points are a bit different than I'm used to.

 

As per Outback:

Absorb Voltage is 55.6V for 2 hours

Float Voltage is 54.0V

 

I've slowly been dropping the 2 minute start voltage to see if there is a 
bottom, but I'm hesitant to take it much lower (maybe I should). 

2 minute start voltage: 44.8 V.

 

 

The system easily charges the battery bank to 100% (and easily reached the 2 hr 
absorb time) every day.  The flexnet DC is correctly set up and calibrated.

 

The load on the system is pretty consistent.  They use between 400 and 600W 
throughout the night.

 

An average night, they may use about 6 kWh before the voltage sags below the 2 
minute start voltage and it starts the generator.

 

Just curious if our 2 minute voltage needs to be dropped or if these batteries 
are degraded.  What corrective changes can I make to get better performance?

 

I have and will call Outback about this, but I'd like other perspectives as 
well.

 

Thanks as always for your expertise


 

-- 

 

 

 

Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates

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[RE-wrenches] Tell me what I'm missing on 690.12 B(2)? Where does it say "module-level???"

[Howard Arey]

The wording in 690.12 B(2) , effective after Jan 1, 2019, says "The PV
System shall comply with one of the following:" 

In none of the three subsequent paragraphs does it ref to "module level
shutdown." Paragraph 2 says gets inside the array voltage under 80 volts
within 30 seconds so I understand how that does not make a great article
headline.hence "module-level."

But I had a distributor that says they do not stock Fronius any longer
because it does not have a NEC 2017 solution.

But doesn't paragraph 1 ("comply with one of the following") and its
informational note provide a path to compliance as long as the string-level
RSD device is mounted within 1-foot of the array boundary?

How did "module-level" shutdown get taken as gospel truth??

I'm thinking a Fronius Primo with its RSD Quattro device mounted on an array
rail meets current 2017 code.

 

Howard "Scot" Arey

254-300-1228

scot.a...@solarcentex.com  

 



 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cutting rail

[Howard Arey]

Works great on all. Keep lots of blades on hand.

Scot Arey
Solar Centex




 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Mick 
Abraham
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 2:09 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cutting rail

 

Hello, Team~ This fine discussion has me considering a cordless bandsaw (28v 
Milwaukee). 

 

Can those who own a burly cordless bandsaw report if it's also productive on 
mild steel?

We'll need to saw some C-purlin, square tubing, etc. in steel & using a grit 
wheel on a chop saw is harsh. 

 

Thanks in advance,




Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com  

Landline: 970-731-4675

Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584

  

 ᐧ

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[RE-wrenches] SolarEdge reliability declining...???

[Howard Arey]

Have any of you seen significant declines in SolarEdge inverter reliability?

We are having more inverter failures that at any time in the past five years
of installing SolarEdge. Lots of Code 181 hardware failures mostly in the
latest SetApp inverters (the ones without displays.)

To compound matters, the RMA process is getting way too long and we are
waiting appx 3 weeks on average to receive a replacement. Customers
definitely not happy.

What are you all seeing?

 

Howard "Scot" Arey

Owner, Solar CenTex

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional

254-300-1228

scot.a...@solarcentex.com

 

www.solarcentex.com  

https://www.facebook.com/SolarCentex





 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge woes

[Howard Arey]

Hahaha!

 

You may have missed my earlier post on the topic. SolarEdge has gone from
very best, most informed tech support IMO in the industry to the very bottom
in a span of two months. Word from SE insider is that rapid growth brought
on many new folks and tech inquiries exacerbated by new SetApp inverters.

I'd say also exacerbated by a big decline in quality. We have had so many SE
failures recently my team and I just discussed moving to Enphase. Really.

I told the SE exec that there ought ot be tiered support so long-time,
proven NABCEP installers can get real support without going through pain on
tier-1 techs asking the most basic questions. But this SE exec
response.shockingly.was that the certified guys were often the worst to deal
with.

 

I'm about fed up with it. Costing me money and goodwill with customers. SE
might be looking after $$$ for nivestors but all they have done is pass
customer support onto our backs.

 

 

Howard "Scot" Arey

254-300-1228

  scot.a...@solarcentex.com

 



 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of
Marco Mangelsdorf
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 2:09 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches' 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge woes

 

Aloha,

 

Does anyone know any special tricks to get through to a live person at
SolarEdge support?

 

We've been dealing with nightmare waits of HOURS while my field crew wait,
wait and wait and wait some more.

 

Thanks,

marco

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[RE-wrenches] Anyone try the new SMA battery inverter with Automatic Backup Unit? Couple of questions.

[Howard Arey]

Excited to use this and even more excited that one of our sales reps with a
SMA system has offered to be our guinea pig!

The ABU looks great - just got one to the shop today - it has transfer
switch with full 200A capability, auto-transformer, easy inputs for
BB-inverter, PV inverter, and smart meter with CTs built for smart energy
management.

 

Couple of questions for those that might know, but does the AC coupling of
the PV inverter plus the 6.0 BB-inverter mean I might possibly push their
combined full output to downstream loads. Even though 200-amp capable ABU,
hard to see how I do whole-house backup. We think we get to "inside the
walls backup only" which is good except during middle of summer. A bit more
than StorEdge power output.

Does anyone know the protocol for decreasing the output of the PV inverter
when batteries are full? I think it is freq shifting but the diagram does
show communication via the home router between the PV inverter and the
BB-inverter. I'd think if this was a necessary communication, then SMA would
have insisted on a hard-wire connection. Any ideas on what might be shared
and for what purpose.

 

This also leads to last question and if freq shifting is the mechanism for
throttling back PV inverter output, then I'm thinking that using any brand
inverter would work.

 

Look forward to answers and to sharing more as I put this at the home of our
Guinea pig...I means sales rep!

 

Howard "Scot" Arey

Owner, Solar CenTex

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional

254-300-1228

scot.a...@solarcentex.com

 

www.solarcentex.com  

https://www.facebook.com/SolarCentex



Top-Rated Solar Installer in Texas by Solar Reviews
 



 

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[RE-wrenches] Is it just me or is anybody else confused on hom to interact with this list.ser...transition to modern forum application

[Howard Arey]

I love the interaction and knowledge within this forum but to be quite
honest, I don't know how to interface and respond to others.

 

I 'm waiting for the crushing responses.get up to the modern ages! Well, I'm
actually quite tech savvy.

 

I keep thinking of the other forums I subscribe to and they are based on
modern interfaces (http://advrider.com/index.php is very easy to navigate,
for example).

 

Is there any consideration to shifting to something like this? If not can
there be? I'll gladly help offset any subscription fees. 

 

I so want to answer to the Radian disconnect questions where I have some
experience to share, but I just don't know how to!

 

Howard "Scot" Arey

Owner, Solar CenTex

254-300-1228

scot.a...@solarcentex.com

 

www.solarcentex.com  

https://www.facebook.com/SolarCentex

http://www.solarreviews.com/installers/solar-centex-reviews/

 



 

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[RE-wrenches] !000 volt wire for trench-buried extended runs - what type?

[Howard Arey]

Good day, wrenches.

 

I am installing four dual axis trackers totaling 52KW (13KW per) to four
individual Fronius Primo 12.5 Primo's.  We've done this setup before except
this time, we'll mount the inverter at the meter instead of carrying
inverting at the tracker and carrying 240 volt over a 300+ foot ground run
for the four combined trackers. And to the heart of this question, we'll run
under 1,000 volt rules for this commercial ranch setup. Goal is to user
higher voltages and minimize amps running through conductors.

 

So my project is:

 

4 each 13KW trackers

Each tracker is 3 strings of 14 modules and about 705Voc and 520 Vmp. This
combined 3-string output for each tracker will have Isc of 8.89 x 3 = apc 27
amps

We'll pull each set of tracker conductors (4 trackers, plus one more run for
a 5th tracker) so 10 +/- conductors. I've done the necessary conditions of
use derates.

 

The big question is what would you select as this 1,000 volt rated wire for
conduit covered installation? PV Wire will get mighty expensive and I don't
even know if I'll find in 4AWG.

 

I ran into this one time before and we just did multiple strings to keep in
the 600volt category but I don't want to do here because that means I double
the number of conductors (and go from 3200 to 6400 feet of wire.String math
and MPP ranges keep me at strings of 14.

 

I want to centrally mount the inverters instead of one at each tracker for
looks and reduce 240 wire sizing.

 

What type cable would you use?

 

Howard "Scot" Arey

Owner, Solar CenTex

254-300-1228

scot.a...@solarcentex.com

 

www.solarcentex.com  

https://www.facebook.com/SolarCentex

http://www.solarreviews.com/installers/solar-centex-reviews/

 



 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] 1000 volt wire for trench-buried extended runs - what type?

[Howard Arey]

We’re going traditional on this system. Wires in real schedule 40 always strike 
me as a safe, smart thing.

 

Still, I’ll check this other wire out and I might be pleasantly surprised.

 

Scot

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of jay
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2016 1:33 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] 1000 volt wire for trench-buried extended runs - what 
type?

 

HI Scot,

 

I”ve pretty cavalier on lots of things.  But for this, I would use conduit and 
wire.  

I just think the added protection, being able to pull out wire in case etc.  

 

I do like the armored cable that was discussed, but that stuff is expensive and 
the ends are quite expensive.  

 

I buy my cable from Bryan at PV cables, you might give him a call for pricing.

 

Jay

 

peltz power

 

 

On May 17, 2016, at 3:52 PM, Howard Arey mailto:scot.a...@solarcentex.com> > wrote:

 

Good day, wrenches.

 

I am installing four dual axis trackers totaling 52KW (13KW per) to four 
individual Fronius Primo 12.5 Primo’s.  We’ve done this setup before except 
this time, we’ll mount the inverter at the meter instead of carrying inverting 
at the tracker and carrying 240 volt over a 300+ foot ground run for the four 
combined trackers. And to the heart of this question, we’ll run under 1,000 
volt rules for this commercial ranch setup. Goal is to user higher voltages and 
minimize amps running through conductors.

 

So my project is:

 

4 each 13KW trackers

Each tracker is 3 strings of 14 modules and about 705Voc and 520 Vmp. This 
combined 3-string output for each tracker will have Isc of 8.89 x 3 = apc 27 
amps

We’ll pull each set of tracker conductors (4 trackers, plus one more run for a 
5th tracker) so 10 +/- conductors. I’ve done the necessary conditions of use 
derates.

 

The big question is what would you select as this 1,000 volt rated wire for 
conduit covered installation? PV Wire will get mighty expensive and I don’t 
even know if I’ll find in 4AWG.

 

I ran into this one time before and we just did multiple strings to keep in the 
600volt category but I don’t want to do here because that means I double the 
number of conductors (and go from 3200 to 6400 feet of wire…String math and MPP 
ranges keep me at strings of 14.

 

I want to centrally mount the inverters instead of one at each tracker for 
looks and reduce 240 wire sizing.

 

What type cable would you use?

 

Howard “Scot” Arey

Owner, Solar CenTex

254-300-1228

 <mailto:scot.a...@solarcentex.com> scot.a...@solarcentex.com

 

 <http://www.solarcentex.com/> www.solarcentex.com

 <https://www.facebook.com/SolarCentex> https://www.facebook.com/SolarCentex

 <http://www.solarreviews.com/installers/solar-centex-reviews/> 
http://www.solarreviews.com/installers/solar-centex-reviews/

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] 20 kW 208/120 inverters

[Howard Arey]

Consider using three single phase inverters putting out 208; one inverter for 
AB leg, AC leg, and BC leg.

 

 

Howard “Scot” Arey

254-300-1228

scot.a...@solarcentex.com  

 



 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Carl Adams
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:09 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] 20 kW 208/120 inverters

 

Hello Wrenches,

 

I am looking of a recommendation on a 208 3 phase inverter in the 20 kW range.  
Any suggestions?

 

Carl Adams

SunRock Solar

NABCEP Certified PV Installer

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[RE-wrenches] Watch out for 30 mm frames and make sure your MLPE mounting hardware is compatible and not hitting backsheet

[Howard Arey]

Hello, all.

 

I wanted to share some lessons learned from a challenge we had last week.

 

We discovered that mounting bolts for DC Optimizers were rubbing the back of
the solar modules and wearing enough to cause module internal grounding and
inverter fault.

 

The cause of this was we transitioned to 30 mm frames from previous 35 mm
frames and the bolts we used to mount optimizers on the rail were now long
enough to just nick the back of the module. Get some heavy wind and just
enough module flex and voila, you get a worn spot.

 

Fortunately, previous troubleshooting on an old system with internal module
faults helped my tech figure out the only culprit could be a bad module, so
he started lifting modules and found that issue.

 

I wanted to share and save somebody some time.

 

We have gone to slightly shorter bolts and saved money in the process!

 

Howard "Scot" Arey

Owner, Solar CenTex

254-300-1228

scot.a...@solarcentex.com

 

www.solarcentex.com  

https://www.facebook.com/SolarCentex

http://www.solarreviews.com/installers/solar-centex-reviews/

 



 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] array overloading of an inverter

[Howard Arey]

I'll give a different spin and of course each situation is different and to
be judged on its own facts. Here in Texas, modules on a summer day don't
typically perform to STC ratings and a DC/AC over-ratio is entirely
appropriate. I've brought it up to 1.25 in some cases.

 

I look at the economics differently: you're putting in the same 10KW
inverters, the same 10KW appropriate wires and conduit, the same OCPD, the
same BOS costs for paperwork.so why not use all of that capacity a bit more.
Instead of looking at the lost DC clipping, think about the increased use of
inverter and beyond components.

 

With a very modest cost increase, you're using that side of the system more
(at same cost as it would be for a 10KW DC to 10KW AC system).

 

Yes, in the spring, I might see some midday clipping but a small price to
pay for increase year round performance.  Your Vermont conditions might not
play out like my Texas conditions since you live closer to STC than I do.

 

 

Howard "Scot" Arey

254-300-1228

  scot.a...@solarcentex.com

 



 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Kirk Herander
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 2:02 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] array overloading of an inverter

 

Hello folks,

I am composing a response to a question a potential customer asked me. It
seems a competitor is trying to talk him into a 20% larger KW array than the
inverter AC max output rating is. The idea of course is to generate more
power on either side of peak output, but at a cost I don't feel is
justified. My opinion of this particular big-box installer I will keep to
myself. My response to the customer, trying to keep it simple:

 

"On the DC array input side, most inverters do allow an overload factor. For
instance, a 10kw AC inverter may allow for 12 kw of DC array as an input.
Whether or not this is a good idea boils down to economics and technical
reasons.

On a sunny day, the inverter generates power as a typical bell curve. Power
output rises in the morning, peaks at noon, declines in the afternoon. In my
example, the inverter can't output more than 10 kw AC. What overloading the
input will do will widen the bell curve, i.e. generating more power in the
morning and afternoon, BUT clipping the peak at 10kw on either side of noon.
So there is power to be gained in morning and afternoon, but peak power is
lost(if conditions allow the peak output to be reached), since the 12 kw
array can never be converted to more than 10 kw of AC power. Depending upon
time of year(ambient / cell temperature) and weather conditions, the peak
may be clipped at 10 kw for several hours a day. So you are both gaining and
losing power using this method. And typically the inverters are only
overloaded in this manner on large-scale farms where the economics are
favorable.

In your case, if you could actually put 200kw of DC array into 150 Kw of
inverter, the economics would never justify it. That extra 50 kw of array
would cost you $100k of more, and the dollar payback for the power that
extra 50Kw would generate will take 2 - 3x the time that the array size does
that stays inside the output limit of the inverters. This is why I'm not a
big fan of dramatically overloading the inverters, if at all,  in your case.
Any KW portion of the array which is above the nameplate kw rating of the
inverter is going to have a longer payback for these reasons. "

I feel my reasoning is sound, But I don't want to be too loose with the
facts. Comments are appreciated. Thanks.

 

Kirk Herander

Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC 

Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1991-2016

www.vermontsolarnow.com

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

NABCEPTM  2003 Inaugural Certificant

VT RE Incentive Program Partner

802.863.1202

 

 

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Support Non-Responsive

[Howard Arey]

Aw, one more Enphase  / SolarEdge response.

The "high voltage" DC is 350-380 volts and with the rapid shutdown capability 
now shipping standard with SE inverters, they go to 1 volt per optimizer when 
the AC grid is not present.  By the way, that 1 volt per optimizer is a great 
way during installation to confirm proper connections - string of 10 means an 
installer should see 10 volts.

No bottle neck issue. The optimizer in essence is doing the MPPT function at 
each module. So if shading, the Opt "finds" best voltage to maximize power 
output. No string degradation. Mixing modules is not a factor whatsoever.

Best part is that since I only MPPT on roof and don't invert, I have a string 
inverter on the side of the house that only does one function - invert! Why try 
to invert DC to AC on a HOT roof when I could do it with a much higher 
efficiency box that is more robust on the side of the house or in a garage?

I've gone away from microinverters entirely - too many nuisance faults. And 
each nuisance fault is a phone call to customer support that is handling more 
than they can handle by a ratio of...number of MLPE to string inverters 
essentially. 

Scot
Solar CenTex

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of William Dorsett
Sent: Friday, August 5, 2016 1:46 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches' 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Support Non-Responsive

Still you pay as much for the Solar Edge optimizers as for Enphase inverters 
plus you have the cost of the central inverter.  At some point you are still 
dealing with high voltage DC, so safety is far better with off the roof 240V 
AC; you still have the bottleneck if one module is shaded or corroded; and you 
still have the difficulty of replacing a legacy module to build a compatible 
string. Again I am not unhappy about Enphase hardware. I just think they've 
grown too fast to keep their support as well organized as the rest of the 
company.

Bill Dorsett
Manhattan, KS

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of penobscotso...@midmaine.com
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2016 12:54 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Support Non-Responsive

It is a very simple install. With SolarEdge there is no trunk cable, which 
definitely cuts down on wire management, especially using SnapNRack mounting. 
Everything is MC4, so PV wire to a transition box, to the inverter input(s) 
make it pretty simple. We almost always mount our inverters outside, even when 
they are string inverters, and typically on the north side of the 
home/business. My guys didn't like the changeover on the first SolarEdge job, 
but it only took one to bring them around and they are now converts.

Daryl


> Do you find that the installation takes longer because you're 
> basically installing a micro inverter and string inverter system at the same 
> time?
> I've also heard of AHJ's requiring that the inverter be mounted 
> outside because of the rapid shutdown disconnect attached to the inverter.
>
> Thanks,
> Will
>
>
> --
> *Will White*
> Curriculum Developer
>
> e: w...@solarenergy.org
> w: www.solarenergy.org
> p: 802-272-3092
>
> PV Installation Professional
> # 093006-34
>
> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 1:41 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Since I am having such a tough time even getting a call back, never 
>> mind reimbursments, we have started very happily using SolarEdge with 
>> very good results so far. Communications, no problem, occasional tech 
>> support is timely, we are seeing less than a 1% failure on 
>> optimizers. Ease and safety of installation is excellent as 
>> welland no, I don't work for them :-)
>>
>> Daryl
>>
>>
>>
>> > Wrenches
>> > We have allot of enphase and ya sometimes it a little hard to get 
>> > them
>> on
>> > the line but we always do. I request the re-inbursments, l dont 
>> > ever
>> see
>> > them as they end up in the admin office. We have looked at and used 
>> > a
>> few
>> > other mico-inverters at customer request but they all seem to go 
>> > out
>> of
>> > business so we are sticking to enphase for better or worse.
>> > Jerry
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Sâ„¢ III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>> >
>> >  Original message From: Wayne Irwin 
>> >  Date:08/05/2016  6:58 AM
>> > (GMT-10:00) To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Support 
>> > Non-Responsive  Maybe just dumb luck, but we 
>> > almost always have quick phone tech support from Enphase and always 
>> > get reimbursed.
>> >
>> > Wayne Irwin
>> > Pure Energy Solar
>> >
>> > Sent from my mobile device
>> >
>> > From: conr...@cape.com
>> > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 12:39:02 -0400
>> > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Support Non-Responsive
>> >
>> > Same thing going on here
>> >
>> > Conrad
>> > Cotuit Solar
>> >
>> >
>> > Conrad Geyser, Principal
>> > Cotuit Sol

[RE-wrenches] Buck-Boost transformer to mitigate high voltage drop?

[Howard Arey]

Good day,

 

I have a potential client that has an existing 1,000 foot run from the meter
and transformer at the street to the home. This is 4/0 Al and quick calcs
show the voltage drop at over 12%. He acknowledges that the wire is
undersized to keep voltage at/about 240 volts (I have not measured directly
at the street / transformer yet).

 

I know the wire has the necessary ampacity to carry his current service
needs and to carry amps from the to-be-suggested solar system.

 

My concern is that the voltage drop will change the 240 volts at the
street/transformer/meter to 211ish (or will I see a higher 268'sh voltage at
the far house end?) at the house. The inverter will try to synch to this
voltage but of course this is outside of typical inverter parameters.

 

So, instead of re-running much large wire, does anybody have experience and
comments about potentially using a buck-boots transformer at the home to get
us back to 240 volts? This would need to be service entrance sized.

 

Howard "Scot" Arey

Owner, Solar CenTex

254-300-1228

scot.a...@solarcentex.com

 

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[RE-wrenches] Buck-Boost transformer to mitigate high voltage drop?

[Howard Arey]

Answers to all:

 

No - I did not measure voltage at the house. Right now, only an assumption
of voltage drop based on my perception of what "typical" loads might be on
this 150-amp service. I wasn't expecting to see such small wires for such a
long run from transformer to house when I showed up there without a
voltmeter. He is a heavy user, using 6,000 kwh in some months

 

We're looking at a 20KW system (he has some other expansion requirements, he
has the roof space, and the need.) I roughly estimate that he'll use onsite
40-50 amps of the 82 amps at peak inverter power output.

 

Interesting to hear of one transformer response and hope to learn more on
that, too.

 

Howard "Scot" Arey

Owner, Solar CenTex

254-300-1228

scot.a...@solarcentex.com

 

www.solarcentex.com  

https://www.facebook.com/SolarCentex



Rated #1 Solar Installer in Texas by Solar Reviews
 



 

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[RE-wrenches] PV ratings

[Howard Arey]

I've used this list before for ratings.

 

http://www.principalsolarinstitute.org/uploads/custom/3/psi_ratings_by_manuf
acturer.php 

 

Howard "Scot" Arey

Owner, Solar CenTex

254-300-1228

scot.a...@solarcentex.com

 

 

 

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[RE-wrenches] Anybody else getting 240 arc fault codes on Fronius installs as frequently as me???

[Howard Arey]

I can't imagine I'm the only one having this problem. Starting to suspect
from Fronius that the problem is deeper than they let on.

 

240 faults are arc-fault detection for Fronius. 

 

We have checked every variable on our end - connectors, firmware, clean wire
pulls. My teams are not perfect but I l know they are very good and know how
important the clean installs are for us.

 

Most but not all of my issues are with bifacial modules. 

 

Anybody else have this issue?

 

Howard "Scot" Arey

Owner, Solar CenTex

254-300-1228

scot.a...@solarcentex.com



 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Anybody else getting 240 arc fault codes on Fronius installs as frequently as me???

[Howard Arey]

No – I have not.

 

My strongest suspect in all of this is AC / DC conflict and insulation issues.

 

For those familiar, the DC and AC conductors run in the same space. Not too 
different than other inverters, I’d say. Fronius provides a conductor insulator 
sleeve for the AC conductors when the wires cannot be physically separated t 
othe left and right side (perhaps because of location of the array and where 
conductors enter the wire space.) WE have decided to now install those no 
matter what – can’t hurt.

 

Back to the megger testing…All of these are 600V applications and the conductor 
is rated for that. But the problems mostly (but not exclusively) occur at peak 
irradiance / middle of the day which leads me to believe the combo of high DC 
and high AC finally conflicts.

 

Perhaps time to invest in a megger tester. Next step for a professional 
installer I’d say. 

 

Thank you.

 

 

Howard “Scot” Arey

254-300-1228

 <mailto:scot.a...@solarcentex.com> scot.a...@solarcentex.com

 



 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Glenn Burt
Sent: Monday, May 8, 2017 3:45 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Anybody else getting 240 arc fault codes on Fronius 
installs as frequently as me???

 

Have you performed insulation resistance testing on all of your wiring?

  _  

From: Howard Arey <mailto:scot.a...@solarcentex.com> 
Sent: ‎5/‎5/‎2017 14:17
To: 'RE-wrenches' <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Anybody else getting 240 arc fault codes on Fronius 
installs as frequently as me???

I can’t imagine I’m the only one having this problem. Starting to suspect from 
Fronius that the problem is deeper than they let on.

 

240 faults are arc-fault detection for Fronius. 

 

We have checked every variable on our end – connectors, firmware, clean wire 
pulls. My teams are not perfect but I l know they are very good and know how 
important the clean installs are for us.

 

Most but not all of my issues are with bifacial modules. 

 

Anybody else have this issue?

 

Howard “Scot” Arey

Owner, Solar CenTex

254-300-1228

scot.a...@solarcentex.com <mailto:scot.a...@solarcentex.com> 



 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Anybody else getting 240 arc fault codes on Fronius installs as frequently as me???

[Howard Arey]

Interesting note. We considered this variable even if there is supposed 
compatibility.

 

We have gone back and replaced the MC4 connectors with Tyco connectors to 
ensure this is not the source. Can’t really say it has helped so far.  I’m 
leaning toward AC / DC interference at peak irradiance.

 

This snip from the Sunpreme datasheet.

 

 



 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of jay
Sent: Monday, May 8, 2017 12:18 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Anybody else getting 240 arc fault codes on Fronius 
installs as frequently as me???

 

What connectors are they, and are you using same brand when you connect to 
comber/junction box?

I have seen issues with non same connectors.

 

jay

 

peltz power

 

 

On May 8, 2017, at 7:44 AM, Howard Arey mailto:scot.a...@solarcentex.com> > wrote:

 

Sunpreme GxB-360.. Datasheet attached.

95% of the issues are with these modules.


Howard “Scot” Arey
254-300-1228
 <mailto:scot.a...@solarcentex.com> scot.a...@solarcentex.com





-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [ <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> 
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dave Angelini 
Offgrid Solar
Sent: Monday, May 8, 2017 9:29 AM
To: RE-wrenches < <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> 
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Anybody else getting 240 arc fault codes on Fronius 
installs as frequently as me???


What make of bi-facial are you using?  The old Sanyo bi-facial had a few of 
these that had to back for warranty, but that was 10 years ago.





Have you performed insulation resistance testing on all of your wiring?

-Original Message-
From: "Howard Arey" mailto:scot.a...@solarcentex.com> >
Sent: ‎5/‎5/‎2017 14:17
To: "'RE-wrenches'" mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Anybody else getting 240 arc fault codes on
Fronius  installs as frequently as me???

I can't imagine I'm the only one having this problem. Starting to 
suspect from Fronius that the problem is deeper than they let on.



240 faults are arc-fault detection for Fronius.



We have checked every variable on our end - connectors, firmware, 
clean wire pulls. My teams are not perfect but I l know they are very 
good and know how important the clean installs are for us.



Most but not all of my issues are with bifacial modules.



Anybody else have this issue?



Howard "Scot" Arey

Owner, Solar CenTex

254-300-1228

scot.a...@solarcentex.com <mailto:scot.a...@solarcentex.com> 





 

 

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[RE-wrenches] Solar over a pool - what must I pay attention to?

[Howard Arey]

Greetings, Wrenches!

 

I have a client that wants one of our solar pavilions over their pool. We
have never done this and wanted to hear opinions on what code requirements
might be pertinent (or little known) for solar modules over water.

 

Howard "Scot" Arey

Owner, Solar CenTex

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional

254-300-1228

scot.a...@solarcentex.com

 

www.solarcentex.com  

https://www.facebook.com/SolarCentex



Top-Rated Solar Installer in Texas by Solar Reviews
 



 

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[RE-wrenches] Schletter S3 Rails engineering specs or tech data sheet?

[Howard Arey]

Hello Wrenches.

 

We have a BI who wants to see the spec sheet for the S3 rails we have used
on one of our solar pergola structures.

 

Trying to contact Schletter to obtain but.does anybody have a tech data
sheet or tech reference for this rail.

 

Howard "Scot" Arey

254-300-1228

scot.a...@solarcentex.com  

 



 

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[RE-wrenches] anything like Generac Smart Management Module for a solar critical backup panel

[Howard Arey]

Hello again, wrenches.

 

I know many of us have run into the quandary and that is  prioritizing loads
in a critical load panel.

 

About to put in some LG RESU units with the SE7600 StorEdge and the 21 amps
continuous is pretty tough.

 

But with some smart, automated load management, this can work just fine.

 

Is there anything like the Generac SMM
(http://www.generac.com/all-products/transfer-switches/home-backup) out
there that does not depend on decreasing cycles/hz to recognize its bumping
into max load conditions?

 

Howard "Scot" Arey

254-300-1228

scot.a...@solarcentex.com  

 



 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] anything like Generac Smart Management Module for a solar critical backup panel

[Howard Arey]

10H

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Marco Mangelsdorf
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 4:32 PM
To: offgridso...@sti.net; 'RE-wrenches' 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] anything like Generac Smart Management Module for
a solar critical backup panel

Has to be a RESU10H to work with the S.E. StorEdge.

The LG is a RESU 10 or 10H?


Dave Howard AreyDave
> Hello again, wrenches.
>
>
>
> I know many of us have run into the quandary and that is  prioritizing 
> loads in a critical load panel.
>
>
>
> About to put in some LG RESU units with the SE7600 StorEdge and the 21 
> amps continuous is pretty tough.
>
>
>
> But with some smart, automated load management, this can work just fine.
>
>
>
> Is there anything like the Generac SMM
> (http://www.generac.com/all-products/transfer-switches/home-backup) 
> out there that does not depend on decreasing cycles/hz to recognize 
> its bumping into max load conditions?
>
>
>
> Howard "Scot" Arey
>
> 254-300-1228
>
> scot.a...@solarcentex.com 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

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Re: [RE-wrenches] anything like Generac Smart Management Module for a solar critical backup panel

[Howard Arey]

Not SOC issue but rather a peak inverter output issue: 5,000 watts con and 
6,600 surge for 10 seconds (I believe the latter is right number). That is the 
constraint I’m trying to live under.

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Chris Mason
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 4:34 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] anything like Generac Smart Management Module for a 
solar critical backup panel

 

If there is an API from which you can determine SOC, you how to do load 
management with a Raspberry Pi. I can help with that if you want.

 

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Howard Arey mailto:scot.a...@solarcentex.com> > wrote:

Hello again, wrenches.

 

I know many of us have run into the quandary and that is  prioritizing loads in 
a critical load panel.

 

About to put in some LG RESU units with the SE7600 StorEdge and the 21 amps 
continuous is pretty tough.

 

But with some smart, automated load management, this can work just fine.

 

Is there anything like the Generac SMM 
(http://www.generac.com/all-products/transfer-switches/home-backup) out there 
that does not depend on decreasing cycles/hz to recognize its bumping into max 
load conditions?

 

Howard “Scot” Arey

254-300-1228  

scot.a...@solarcentex.com <mailto:scot.a...@solarcentex.com> 

 



 


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-- 

Chris Mason

NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Solar Design Engineer

Generac Generators Industrial technician

 

www.cometsolar.com <http://www.cometenergysystems.com> 

264.235.5670

869.662.5670

Skype: netconcepts

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Re: [RE-wrenches] anything like Generac Smart Management Module for a solar critical backup panel 10H

[Howard Arey]

Excellent – I had seen Energy Sentry yesterday and just spoke to that team. 
Will have a more detailed call with them this afternoon.

 

Will follow back with this group.

 

Thank you.

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Mick Abraham
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 8:51 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] anything like Generac Smart Management Module for a 
solar critical backup panel 10H

 

Hi, Mechanix~ Here are two possible solutions to Scot Arey's quest:

 

http://sequentpower.com/

 

http://energysentry.com/PP-residential-controllers.php

 

I do not have hands on experience with either of these items, Scot, so be sure 
to report back if you try one of these. A google for "load sequencer" may turn 
up additional possibilities. 

 

I hope this will be helpful. The Wrench List is the bomb!




Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com  

Landline: 970-731-4675

Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584

  

 ᐧ

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[RE-wrenches] "Sharks tooth" charging profile with LG RESU battery and SolarEdge

[Howard Arey]

We have installed several LG Resu10H batteries with Solar Edge StorEdge. One
just happened to be my house.

 

I have an eGauge system ay my home so I'm seeing what others might not be
and that is an odd "sharks tooth" solar production curve.

 

These have been bluebird clear solar days in Texas but this jagged curve on
my StorEdge indicates near constant float charging of the LG battery. The
lower dasjed line is a standalone solar array that is part of my larger
system and you can see that is totally smooth.

 

My question for the group is has anyone else seen this jagged "shark tooth"
production profile when using the StorEdge / LG? Seems odd that this much
power is siphoned off constantly to keep an LG at 100% SoC.

 

 

 

Howard "Scot" Arey

Owner, Solar CenTex

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional

254-300-1228

scot.a...@solarcentex.com

 

www.solarcentex.com  

https://www.facebook.com/SolarCentex



 

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] residential carport options

[Howard Arey]

Check out Sunforson.

Very fair prices and yes...all the "domestic" stuff looks like this team OEMd 
it for them.

Contact Lucy and she will take care of you.  l...@sunforson.com 

Importing seemed hard at first but really not so difficult.

Scot
Solar CenTex

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of gary easton
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 5:46 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] residential carport options

Does anyone have experience with a simple steel residential solar carport 
structure for 4-5 kw that has a reasonable lead time?

--
Gary Easton
Appalachian Renewable Power
Stewart, Ohio 45778
NABCEP Certified Solar PV

T: 740-277-8498
 www.arp-solar.com

“First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you 
win.”
~Ghandi
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