[RBW] Latest AHH Build
Hi All, Thought that I'd share the latest "version" of my AHH. I removed the promenade bars / iBert baby carrier, and have it set up for my once-a- week commute from San Francisco to Palo Alto: http://www.flickr.com/photos/47173014@N03/ If you're interested in the details: Frame/Fork - AHH 57" (Waterford) Headset - Chris King 2Nut Crankset - Shimano FC-R700 non-series 50/34 compact Bottom Bracket - Chris King Pedals - Shimano A530 Chain - SRAM PC-99R 10 speed Front Derailleur - Shimano non-series compact Rear Derailleur - DA long cage Casette - Ultegra 10 speed 12-27 Brake Levers - Shimano R600 Brakes - Paul Racer Shifters - DA downtube shifters Stem - Nitto Dynamic Handlebars - Nitto Dream Tape - Grey Newbaum's, twine, and 3 coats of clear shellac Seatpost - Nitto Crystal Fellow Saddle - Brooks Swift Bottle Cages - King stainess Rear Hub - Chris King Front Hub - SONdelux Rims - Mavic Open Pro (32h) Tires – Challenge Parigi-Roubaix Racks - Tubus Luna rear / Nitto F15 front Bag – Sackville Barsack Kickstand – Pletscher single Front Light - Schmidt Edelux Rear Light – B&M Toplight Line Plus Wheel Skewers - Pitlock -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Latest AHH Build
Thanks Rene! That's praise from Caesar, considering how beautiful your bikes are. Lee beat me to it; you can orient the SONdelux either way w/o issue. I flipped it to the left side, b/c that's where I want hte light (so that cars can see me), and it was a shorter cable run. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Latest AHH Build
E.B., thanks for the compliment! I broke a few Riv-rules with the drivetrain, but I got used to riding a 50/34 crank set with a 10 speed 12-27 cassette on a MCRB over the past few years, and the range works for me. I missed downtube shifters though. And steel. I've got nothing against square taper bottom brackets, but the ability to swap parts b/w bikes was a priority for me. I definitely get a tire shadow with that fork-mounted light setup, but it's not that bad. More than anything I want to be seen by cars, which is why I mounted it on the left. This may start a flame war, but I don't think it's super necessary to face the shell. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Latest AHH Build
René, I work just off of Page Mill Road. I'm not hardy enough to do the commute both ways -- when I ride down, I'll take CalTrain back in the evening. There are a few different ways to do it. They all take me 3+ hours. I think the nicest route is down Skyline. It's not super flat, but the directions are relatively simple and very pretty. There's a much flatter, but very complicated "urban" route that tracks down the 101 side. A bunch of Google employees who do the commute regularly put up a site with really helpful route information at http://sf2g.com/. I hope that you and Ray both heal up quickly, and that I'll see you both out there sometime soon! Michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Latest AHH Build
Sacha, Good question. I don't know for sure, but I'd venture to guess that it can be serviced -- just not in the same way (by unthreading the hub shell). The SONdelux is actually the successor to the SON20 for 16-20" wheels rather than the SON28, which was designed for 26" to 700c. There are fewer poles so it produces less juice per rotation, with correspondingly less drag. It would not produce enough juice for traditional halogen lighting at lower speeds on a full sized wheel, but it's just fine for LED lighting. I was a skeptical about dynamo lighting before I took the plunge, but I have to say it's fantastic. The lights are always on, the drag is almost imperceptible, and I don't have to worry about (or dispose of) batteries. Michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: New Google format
Is it just me, or is this new format a whole lot less useful? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/2nTaJV90BesJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: New Google format
That's encouraging actually. Maybe I'm being too much of a retrogrouch when it comes to technology. With bikes, it's okay =) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/0p07EmwkFrMJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Cable Routing Problem w/ Riv's MicroShift FDer on AHH
Rex, I don't have that issue on my Hilsen, but on another bike (with a SRAM front derailleur) the FD cable touches the pivot -- same as yours. I slipped a short length of plastic tubing over the cable so that it would "roll" over the derailleur pivot without too much interference. That works surprisingly well, and I don't have any running problems. Michael Glaser -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/vvbq-_IMiQ4J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Front Rack for Fender Attachment
I just installed a set of Honjo fenders on my 700c AHH with center- pull brakes. The "nose" of the front fender is significantly longer than the nose of the SKS/Esge fender it's replacing, and I've noticed a bit of sway. In fact, it bounces against the tire when I ride over rough pavement. I've been considering a front rack for some time, but I really need to add an attachment point for the fender. The Nitto Mini Front would be perfect, but I've got a center-pull brake mounted to the fork crown. So, I'm trying to decide between a Nitto Mark's Rack and a Gilles Berthoud front rack for center-pull / side-pull brakes. I have a Tubus Luna rack on the rear of the bike, and though it's not a primary consideration, it would be nice if the two racks looked good together. I'd appreciate any thoughts or recommendations from the group. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Front Rack for Fender Attachment
René, Nice rig, indeed! You know, I just used the rubber washer from the Honjo installation kit on the kickstand plate, and the fender line seems fine. Maybe that's b/c it's a 700c wheel? I think there's more of a gap on my wife's 650B Saluki. But I assumed that I'd have to make some sort of spacer with both the Mark's Rack and with the Berthoud. Michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Front Rack for Fender Attachment
Mark's Rack does not have a fender attachment like the Mini or M-12. I hadn't considered using a second stay. That's a really elegant solution if you don't need a front rack. I may do that temporarily. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Front Rack for Fender Attachment
Steve, Saw your Saluki before, and that's how I got the idea for the Berthoud. It really looks like stainless steel to me. I wouldn't have guessed that it was painted. Very nice, btw. Beautiful bike. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: If you haven't done so already, check out our new and improved web catalog
Looks really great, John. The updated features make the site much more functional. Michael Glaser -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: New Riv Custom
Really nice bike Brad. I noticed that you went with Chris King hubs. I have them on my Hilsen, and they're fantastic. Congrats! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] WTB - Nigel Smythe Lil' Loafer
Is anyone willing to sell a Lil' Loafer, preferably in canvas? Condition isn't super important, so long as it has a few years of life left in it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Hunqapiller news
I really like the Hunqapiller name (it has all the hallmarks of a great nonce word) and love the headbadge art. Can't wait to see the bike. I think that the Taiwan-built, upsloping top-tube, lower-cost models are a wonderful thing. They're great bikes at any price, but the lower cost makes the Rivendell brand much more accessible. Still, I'm a bit worried about losing higher-end non-custom models from the line-up. I completely understand the currency exchange pressures that have strained the Toyo-Riv partnership, but why can't Waterford pick up Atlantis production like they picked up 700c production on the AHH? I believe that there's a market for folks who want something really special, but aren't willing to spend 50% more and wait 2+ years for a custom. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Hunqapiller news
Sorry everyone, but I don't think that "we have to redesign a cheaper product" follows from "the dollar / yen exchange rate is unfavorable." There is a much simpler answer to that issue: shift production to Waterford. Presumably, Riv isn't struggling with margins on Waterford-built frames resold at $2k because that's exactly what the Rodeo is. Why isn't that part of the solution here? Hunqapiller is to Atlantis as Hillborne is to Hilsen. Easy. I don't understand why the Atlantis has to go away, unless Riv wants to abandon dedicated touring frames at that price point. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Hunqapiller news
I may be talking out of school here, but I think there are four main differences between the Toyo/Waterford frames and the Taiwanese frames: design, materials, construction and finish. First, and perhaps most importantly, the Taiwanese models all have upsloping top tubes. The upsloping top tubes allow a wider range of riders to achieve an upright position on the same size frame. This means that Riv doesn't have to carry as many sizes, and I'm sure that Riv saves money by simplifying inventory management. But the net result is an aesthetic compromise. That's not to say that the Taiwanese bikes are unattractive. I think they're beautiful. I just find level top tubes more beautiful. Second, the tubesets are made from heavier gauge steel that is not heat-treated. I am not a metallurgist or framebuilder, and I don't pretend to know nearly as much about this as many of the Bunch, but heat-treated steel provides more "efficient" strength. You can build an equally strong frame with lighter gauge steel. Third, the Taiwanese bikes are brass-brazed rather than silver- brazed. Silver brazing can be done at a lower temperature, and does not affect the strength of the steel. Brass brazing requires a higher temperature and does have an effect on the steel matrix. Fourth, the finish on the Taiwanese bikes is a bit less fancy. I don't think that this is a very important issue, because they're fancy enough. But there is a difference. For these reasons, I'd really like to see a higher-end touring frame in the Riv line-up. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Yes, the Sam Hillborne can be Sporty Too
I'm a big fan of SRAM's road groups, and I love the 2008 Rival parts in silver. I really wish that they hadn't switched to black / carbon in 2009. I think a pair of NOS silver Rival brifters would have been great on this bike. But you also could have used SRAM's non-series TT barcons. They're black, but I don't think they would have looked too shabby. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Carboon failures
I've been hesitant to join the fray because I'd really like this entire thread to wind down. We all come to this forum because we appreciate the form and function of lugged steel bikes that are built with recreational / utility riders in mind. I personally do not enjoy the conflict that seems so pervasive in other on-line communities, and it saddens me to see it here. But a few things are gnawing at me. I'll preface this by saying that Grant is not only entitled to his opinion, but each member of this community obviously agrees with and celebrates many (if not most or all) of Grant's views. However, I don't think that we should be dogmatic. Critical thinking is a good thing, and not only when questioning conventional wisdom that leads folks to buy racing bikes that are uncomfortable for recreational riding and unsuitable for day- to-day tasks. Here's are my personal heresies: First, I don't agree that carbon is an inherently dangerous or inferior to steel. Second, I don't agree that the weight savings associated with MCRBs are irrelevant for recreational riding. For what it's worth I recall seeing a number of spectacular failures from the early days of carbon (esp. forks) in the late 80s / early 90s. Memories of those failures kept me off of carbon for a long time. And to be fair, the mode of failure for carbon can be quick and dramatic. However, the rate of "just riding along" failures is extremely low. Pebbles kicked up while riding do not cause stress risers that lead to catastrophic failure, period. That is just patently false. Stress risers are caused by serious crashes (inspect, inspect, inspect after a crash, regardless of what you are riding), or by seriously improper installation (it's wise to use a torque wrench when installing parts on any bike, but it's especially important with carbon . . . and if you wrench something until it literally crunches, you ought to realize that you've broken it). If you do a non-partisan review of the www.bustedcarbon.com site, you'll notice that many if not most of the broken bikes are attributed either to very serious crashes (e.g., tangling with a car) or non- riding incidents (e.g., roof rack vs. garage door, spouse backing over bike on floor of garage, etc.). Steel, aluminum and titanium frames do not generally fare any better under these circumstances. I have seen steel head tubes detached from front triangles. I have also seen steel fork blades detached from lugged steel crowns. A car / boulder / cast iron bollard can mangle any bike beyond recognition -- as well as your body. That doesn't mean that the materials are unsafe; it means that cycling itself can be dangerous. And even if the bike survives, when a cast iron bollard sends you over the bars head first, there's a risk that you will end up with a spinal cord injury. I'm not an accident investigator, and I don't know the individuals involved, but I think it's possible that this unfortunate bike shop owner that Grant mentioned might have been seriously injured on any bike. I think that using the photo at the beginning of this thread to demonstrate the inherent vulnerability of carbon is unfair. First, I'd submit that it's pretty rare for squirrels to jump into moving wheels. Second, take a look at the wheel -- it's one of those Bontrager models with a proprietary spoking pattern that leaves huge voids between pairs of spokes. Third, even with those huge voids, the wheel must have been rotating pretty slowly in order for the squirrel to make it half-way through in the time that it took to do less than a single full rotation. So, suicidal squirrel plus very unusual wheel design at rotational speed low enough for squirrel to pass through the wheel equals crash. As someone pointed out, this would have caused a crash even with a steel fork (perhaps damaging it beyond rideability), but if there's any design flaw to blame here, it's the wheel not the fork. Were it not for that very unusual wheel design, I think the squirrel probably would have bounced off of the moving spokes. Some thoughts about weight. It does matter. Especially for recreational riders who ride at relatively lower speeds on hilly terrain and do not produce gobs of power. This isn't subjective, and it isn't about being a racer (I am not, never have been, and don't aspire to be). It's simple physics. The less you and your bike weigh, the easier it is to pedal up hills. If you'd like to translate that into statistics, check out the Analytical Cycling site http://www.analyticcycling.com/ForcesLessWeight_Page.html. If you're turned off by the fact that the site is populated by a bunch of Type A wanna-be (or actual) racers, then look into the whole lightweight backpacking movement. The pioneers of that movement are not cardio- monsters, they're Appalachian Trail through-hikers like Emma "Grandma" Gatewood. Smell-the-roses type people who have much more in common with Grant Petersen at Rivendell than Gerard
[RBW] Re: Henry Coe
I rode a 20 mile loop in Henry Coe a number of years ago. It's not "down the side of a ski slope" technical, but it will test your reflexes as well as your lungs. Knobbies are a must, IMHO. Beatiful park, too. They had a fire a couple of years ago, but I suspect that the park is healing nicely by now. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Achilles pain
+1 for the saddle being too high. Switched pedals on my go-fast MCRB a couple years ago to a Speedplays (which ahve a very low stack height). This meant that I was "stretching" for the pedal at the bottom of each stroke, and caused a TON of Achilles pain. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Lugged! Proper fork bend! 650B! Fenders! Fattish Tires! Riv-ish!
Bruce, You are a wizard. That bike is stunning. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Yehuda Moon Back!
I checked the site today and there's a new strip! I thought that Rick was taking a break until May 2. I hope that he's thoroughly recharged, but am really glad to see the strip again. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Remember those learning bikes in the Rivendell Reader? Success Story here
This post has got to be on my top 5 list for this group -- which is saying a lot. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Cable End Soldering
I'm a huge fan of old school mechanics techniques, but the reason that no one solders cables anymore is that stainless has all but displaced galvanized steel for cables on nicely-spec'd bikes. And apart from being able to take solder, galvanized cables have nothing on good quality stainless cables when it comes to smoothness and longevity. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Nitto Recall
Doubt that many of the folks on this group are using riser bars, but Nitto just announced a voluntary recall of their B259AA handlebars. http://www.euroasiaimports.com/productcart/pc/viewContent.asp?idpage=3. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/24R7QicdOpwJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: E-werk settings
Kelly, if I had a question about dynamo-powered anything (including accessory chargers), I'd probably start with Peter White. Have you tried contacting him? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/sDQwTN-adGgJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: RIP Yehuda
That strip was always a ray of sunshine in my daily routine. Rick, if you're keeping an eye on this thread, thank you so much for the laughs, and please consider having '09, '10 and '11 printed as you did with '08. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/4B7FfeI-ktgJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
