I've been hesitant to join the fray because I'd really like this entire thread to wind down. We all come to this forum because we appreciate the form and function of lugged steel bikes that are built with recreational / utility riders in mind. I personally do not enjoy the conflict that seems so pervasive in other on-line communities, and it saddens me to see it here.
But a few things are gnawing at me. I'll preface this by saying that Grant is not only entitled to his opinion, but each member of this community obviously agrees with and celebrates many (if not most or all) of Grant's views. However, I don't think that we should be dogmatic. Critical thinking is a good thing, and not only when questioning conventional wisdom that leads folks to buy racing bikes that are uncomfortable for recreational riding and unsuitable for day- to-day tasks. Here's are my personal heresies: First, I don't agree that carbon is an inherently dangerous or inferior to steel. Second, I don't agree that the weight savings associated with MCRBs are irrelevant for recreational riding. For what it's worth I recall seeing a number of spectacular failures from the early days of carbon (esp. forks) in the late 80s / early 90s. Memories of those failures kept me off of carbon for a long time. And to be fair, the mode of failure for carbon can be quick and dramatic. However, the rate of "just riding along" failures is extremely low. Pebbles kicked up while riding do not cause stress risers that lead to catastrophic failure, period. That is just patently false. Stress risers are caused by serious crashes (inspect, inspect, inspect after a crash, regardless of what you are riding), or by seriously improper installation (it's wise to use a torque wrench when installing parts on any bike, but it's especially important with carbon . . . and if you wrench something until it literally crunches, you ought to realize that you've broken it). If you do a non-partisan review of the www.bustedcarbon.com site, you'll notice that many if not most of the broken bikes are attributed either to very serious crashes (e.g., tangling with a car) or non- riding incidents (e.g., roof rack vs. garage door, spouse backing over bike on floor of garage, etc.). Steel, aluminum and titanium frames do not generally fare any better under these circumstances. I have seen steel head tubes detached from front triangles. I have also seen steel fork blades detached from lugged steel crowns. A car / boulder / cast iron bollard can mangle any bike beyond recognition -- as well as your body. That doesn't mean that the materials are unsafe; it means that cycling itself can be dangerous. And even if the bike survives, when a cast iron bollard sends you over the bars head first, there's a risk that you will end up with a spinal cord injury. I'm not an accident investigator, and I don't know the individuals involved, but I think it's possible that this unfortunate bike shop owner that Grant mentioned might have been seriously injured on any bike. I think that using the photo at the beginning of this thread to demonstrate the inherent vulnerability of carbon is unfair. First, I'd submit that it's pretty rare for squirrels to jump into moving wheels. Second, take a look at the wheel -- it's one of those Bontrager models with a proprietary spoking pattern that leaves huge voids between pairs of spokes. Third, even with those huge voids, the wheel must have been rotating pretty slowly in order for the squirrel to make it half-way through in the time that it took to do less than a single full rotation. So, suicidal squirrel plus very unusual wheel design at rotational speed low enough for squirrel to pass through the wheel equals crash. As someone pointed out, this would have caused a crash even with a steel fork (perhaps damaging it beyond rideability), but if there's any design flaw to blame here, it's the wheel not the fork. Were it not for that very unusual wheel design, I think the squirrel probably would have bounced off of the moving spokes. Some thoughts about weight. It does matter. Especially for recreational riders who ride at relatively lower speeds on hilly terrain and do not produce gobs of power. This isn't subjective, and it isn't about being a racer (I am not, never have been, and don't aspire to be). It's simple physics. The less you and your bike weigh, the easier it is to pedal up hills. If you'd like to translate that into statistics, check out the Analytical Cycling site http://www.analyticcycling.com/ForcesLessWeight_Page.html. If you're turned off by the fact that the site is populated by a bunch of Type A wanna-be (or actual) racers, then look into the whole lightweight backpacking movement. The pioneers of that movement are not cardio- monsters, they're Appalachian Trail through-hikers like Emma "Grandma" Gatewood. Smell-the-roses type people who have much more in common with Grant Petersen at Rivendell than Gerard Vroomen at Cervelo. All things being equal, you can go cover more ground in a shorter span of time with less weight, particularly if you're not a paragon of physical fitness. But it's not all about being faster. My Hilsen weighs about 30lbs, fully-dressed. My MCRB weighs about half that with the small kit that I carry. Would you rather hike up Half Dome with a 30 pounds of gear or 15 pounds of gear? I guess it depends on what you plan to do at the top of Half Dome. On a day with good weather when you're just going to turn around and go back to camp in time for dinner, it's a no brainer. It's also a no brainer to reach the opposite conclusion if I'm planning to have an elaborate picnic and possibly stay the night. For me I ride my Hilsen when it makes sense to ride my Hilsen, and my MCRB when it makes sense to ride my MCRB. I love them both for different reasons. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. 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