Re: [RBW] Re: The way I design a build, and the first chapter

[Richard Rose]

Thanks for that. I love every single thing about my Gus & it’s build - except its weight. It’s a heavy beast & it only bothers me going uphill on singletrack. When I built it up from bare frame I paid no attention to weight. I even (foolishly?) sold a Cane Creek ee wings Ti crankset to fund the frame purchase. I’d kinda like to do it over & take this shaving every gram approach. But, it would have to start with wheels. I just do not know of a better/lighter rim to use than the Cliffhanger? Is there another MTB worthy rim that will support a 2.6” tire? Sent from my iPhoneOn Dec 2, 2024, at 10:43 PM, Armand Kizirian  wrote:Sure, feels a bit snappier off the line and surprisingly fast for an upright bike (nice tires with light wheels mostly help here). If you get really active with the bike, go for a spirited sprint, or chuck it in some turns at an aggressive speed, the weight shift does feel more noticeable. It's more for the feel, not concerned with actual speed. All-in-all not a big deal though for a bike that is meant for pleasure and commuting. The weight is easily replaced by what I usually carry for a strict pleasure ride, which really is the main intention, to offset that weight. 70% of the time I have 20-30lb's of cargo for my commutes, as I pack a mobile office, food for the day, and usually a change of clothes as well. The main motivation for me to do this work is that I was building from the frame up, which is the time to do it. Doing this work down the line requires changing nearly everything, which is not time or cost-effective, like Bill pointed out. If I had kept the stock complete built, the only thing I would bother with is the wheelset, which really is the only thing you'll actually feel a difference on. On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 5:51:23 PM UTC-8 Richard Rose wrote:Very fascinating stuff. Two questions; how much did the 4+ pound weight loss cost & how does it feel? Sent from my iPhoneOn Dec 2, 2024, at 7:06 PM, Armand Kizirian  wrote:Whoops! Good catch. From what's identified on that list, the correct total is 1938g / 4.27lbs. I feel silly after all that weighing and I didn't weigh the complete bike stock. Oh well! The 2.5lb+ drop in wheel weight also includes the exceptionally light, extralight rene herse casing, and lightweight Schwalbe butyl tubes. Though I have foregone both to run the endurance casing tubeless. On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 2:46:46 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:Looks like 1188g of savings is the SUM of both wheels reduction.  670g + 518g = 1,188g Now it makes sense.  Did you double-count the front wheel savings in your total though?  Maybe it doesn't matter anymore.  :)BL in ECOn Monday, December 2, 2024 at 2:44:17 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:I don't follow the math.  The rear wheel math makes sense to me:Heavy old rear wheel weight - Lighter new rear wheel weight = rear wheel weight savings2252g - 1582g =670g = 23.634 oz (checks out)Heavy old front wheel weight - Lighter new front wheel weight = front wheel weight savings1942g - 1424g = 518g =18.272 oz (Impressive, but you claim 1188g of savings on the front wheel)Bill LindsayEl Cerrito, CAOn Monday, December 2, 2024 at 12:10:31 PM UTC-8 Armand Kizirian wrote:For reference, I reduced the weight of my Platypus Complete by 5.75lbs. I stripped the parts entirely for another frame, which was the plan from the get go. The list below shows the weight difference of parts. It is mostly complete, but missing brakes and some other accessories, because I ultimately lost interest and just wanted to finish the bike and ride it. :) On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 8:16:37 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:CONFIRMED!  All of you who bought a CLEM complete from Rivendell are now confirmed as Weight Weenies!!  Pop those reflectors off to save a gram or two!BL in ECOn Monday, December 2, 2024 at 7:51:04 AM UTC-8 Ted Durant wrote:On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 9:33:16 AM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:Somebody off-list told me that plastic sealed bearing Clem pedals are impressively light.  As I posted earlier in this thread, I weighed a pair of them at 272g, including the plastic shrink-wrap holding them together :-)  The only pedals I have that are lighter are Eggbeater 11 (titanium axles).Ted DurantMilwaukee WI USA



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[RBW] Re: FS: Chris King R45 Hubset 32H Black Unlaced

[Michael Ullmer]

Bump on these, $400 shipped for the set.

On Monday, November 25, 2024 at 10:23:37 AM UTC-6 Michael Ullmer wrote:

> Another bump and price drop, need these gone to fund another wheel build.
>
> $420 shipped CONUS
>
> On Thursday, November 21, 2024 at 9:37:19 AM UTC-6 Michael Ullmer wrote:
>
>> Bump and a price drop on these - $480 shipped.
>>
>> On Sunday, November 17, 2024 at 9:15:20 PM UTC-6 Mike Godwin wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, 329 gm for both hubs, no wonder they are expensive. 
>>> Mike SLO CA 
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 135mm rear hub

[Will Boericke]

I do like Dumonde.  The hub came with a set of Mercury wheels. I think that 
the shape of the hub body and many other factors impact the sound greatly.  
I have many DT swiss hubs with the same set of ratchets and vastly 
different volumes of noise.  The loudest is on my fat bike, and approaches 
too loud for me.

I retired the Novatec hub when it started creaking and I didn't feel like 
troubleshooting.

Will

On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 11:45:05 AM UTC-5 Kim H. wrote:

> @Will
>
> Did you have it serviced regularly ? or did you service yourself in 
> re-greasing the cartridge bearing hub ?
>
> I recently had my rear hub serviced in re-greasing it with Dumonde Tech 
> Freehub Bicycle Bike Grease Lube of which I personally bought from a 
> member's recommendation. My rear hub was making slight clicking noises now 
> and then. No sound now whatsoever. 
>
> Was your Novatech wheelset from with a purchase of Rivendell bicycle ?
>
> Kim Hetzel.
>
> On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 7:45:30 AM UTC-8 Will Boericke wrote:
>
>> Interesting.  The Novatec rear I had was not silent.  I think there's a 
>> lot of variability in their different models
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 2, 2024, 10:38 AM Kim H.  wrote:
>>
>>> @Cormac
>>>
>>> "I've always preferred silent hub"
>>>
>>> The rear Novatech stock cartridge bearing hub on my Clem runs silent. I 
>>> love running silent after all the years of listening to freewheels. 
>>> The spacing is 135. They are available in 36 holes. I have a 32 hole hub.
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel. 
>>>
>>> On Friday, November 29, 2024 at 7:47:27 AM UTC-8 okeeffe...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 That sucks. I've always preferred silent hubs. 

 On Thu, 28 Nov 2024, 20:38 Brian Turner,  wrote:

> Hope hubs are nice and robust, but be forewarned - they are among the 
> loudest I’ve owned. I have one on my Crust. Louder than White and Chris 
> King, in my experience. 
>
> Brian
> Lex KY 
>
> On Nov 28, 2024, at 2:30 PM, Cormac O'Keeffe  
> wrote:
>
> Thanks Andy.  I reckon I'll go for the Hope hub. Dearer than some, 
> cheaper than others and apparently it just keeps on rolling.
> On Friday, November 22, 2024 at 2:07:37 PM UTC+1 ascpgh wrote:
>
>> Without additional speculations or input on the world of 135mm, 36° 
>> rear hubs I definitely recommend the Silver cassette hub from Rivendell. 
>> I 
>> now have a 36° 135mm that Harry built with a Pacenti Brevet rim that he 
>> had. I sought the steel cassette body specifically.
>>
>> This wheel replaced a 135mm, 32° Suzue Classica freehub with a 
>> Pacenti Brevet 9-spd with an aluminum freehub body. I detected and 
>> isolated 
>> a sort of creak/click similar to a crank arm in need of tightening that 
>> I 
>> was not tolerant of.
>>
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>>
>> On Saturday, November 2, 2024 at 5:25:45 AM UTC-4 
>> okeeffe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I know that Rivendell, White Industries and Velo Orange all sell 
>>> 135mm rear hubs, but does anyone know of some places (ideally Europe) 
>>> that 
>>> sell 135mm 35H rear hubs? 
>>> Cheers,
>>> C
>>>
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[RBW] The perfect combination tire

[Bruce Byker James]

Hi all,

I'm considering replacing the stock 45mm Kenda tires on my 650b Clem and 
wondering what you all think would be a good combination of all these 
factors:

2" - ish (probably not narrower)
Decent traction on trails
Low rolling resistance on roads
Flat-resistant in some way (I ride on a lot of Philadelphia street glass 
gravel)
Not too expensive

The one I'm most willing to skimp on is trail traction, because I'm 
surprised by how well the relatively traction-less Kendas do off road, 
maybe that's the geometry magic? At least a little more traction than 
those, though.

I'd love to hear if anyone has something like this used for sale, too!

Thanks,

 - Bruce

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[RBW] Re: The way I design a build, and the first chapter

[Ted Durant]

On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 9:33:16 AM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:

Somebody off-list told me that plastic sealed bearing Clem pedals are 
impressively light.  


As I posted earlier in this thread, I weighed a pair of them at 272g, 
including the plastic shrink-wrap holding them together :-)  The only 
pedals I have that are lighter are Eggbeater 11 (titanium axles).

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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[RBW] Re: FS: Paul Neo Retro Brake Set - Black - Very Clean

[Josh (BertoBerg)]

These have sold. Thank you

Josh
Seattle, WA

On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 10:21:00 AM UTC-8 Josh wrote:

> Hello-
>
> Up for sale is a very clean set of Paul Neo Retro brakes. I replaced all 
> of the bolts with titanium bolts. Black Moon Units and a new set of 
> Kool-Stop brakes are included with the sale. Parts have around 1K miles on 
> them.
>
> *$210/shipped*
>
> Thanks!
>
> Josh
> Seattle, WA
>
> Pictures 
> 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Bags!!! Carradice, Swift, Ortlieb

[Brian Turner]

UPDATE:

Carradice Nelson Longflap is still available for $70 + shipping.

I thought I had a pending buyer, but it appears they have decided to not 
communicate further. Just FYI, cheapest shipping to the west coast would be 
$11.

PHOTOS 

On Friday, November 29, 2024 at 9:11:35 AM UTC-5 Brian Turner wrote:

> UPDATE:
>
> Everything has now sold except for the Carradice Nelson Longflap. $70 + 
> shipping if anyone is interested
>
> Brian
> Lex KY
>
> On Thursday, November 28, 2024 at 9:45:38 AM UTC-5 Brian Turner wrote:
>
>> Updated availability and lowered pricing (!) below:
>>
>> Selling several bags for your consideration. Prices don't include 
>> shipping. Feel free to post here or private message me if you have any 
>> questions! - Brian
>>
>> Carradice Nelson Longflap - $70
>> Gently used and in very good shape, despite its cosmetic appearance. I 
>> had several patches on it, and you can see how the material faded but this 
>> would all even out in good time and with use. The powdery-looking stuff is 
>> just some wood ash from the last time I camped with the bag. Comes with 
>> three leather straps.
>>
>> Swift Industries + Blue Lug "Caldera" Collection limited edition Sidekick 
>> stem pouch - SOLD
>> Gently used, with some slight darker discoloration from wear. Waxed 
>> canvas - field tan and olive, with Blue Lug + Swift patch. Molle attachment 
>> straps. Comes with all the original velcro straps.
>>
>> Swift Industries Rando Pocket / black - SOLD
>> Basically new. Black X-Pac material with Molle attachment for other Swift 
>> bags or for use with a Wald basket.
>>
>> Ortlieb Back Roller Plus rear pannier set / gray & black - $120
>> Voluminous! 20L each. Very gently used. I painted a bit of hardware on 
>> one of them red so I could easily differentiate which side of the bike that 
>> particular pannier went on (this helps when packing and unpacking when 
>> unattached to the bike during a tour). QL2 mounting hardware. Only one 
>> shoulder strap could be found, unfortunately. The material is the nicer, 
>> cloth-like finish, rather than the slick, rubbery stuff most Ortliebs are 
>> made of.
>>
>> Ortlieb Classic handlebar bag + camera insert + locking mount + keys - $65
>> Matches the color and material of the rear pannier set. Comes with padded 
>> camera insert that is customizable. Would sell them all together for $175. 
>> Instructions for mounting bracket can be found here 
>> 
>>
>> Rivendell SuperHupe bag support - SOLD
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: The way I design a build, and the first chapter

[Bill Lindsay]

A gram-shaving Gus build sounds to me like a Susie build ;-). 

Rim-brake rim options for wide tires are indeed slim.  I've heard of an 
Alex DX-32 which may be ~75g lighter than a Cliffhanger.  In my stable, 
when the tires get that wide, that's where we switch over to disc brakes, 
which opens up a lot more light options, like the excellent Velocity Blunt 
SS.  

If I had a Gus and wanted to make it easier to pedal up steep single track, 
I'd do it mostly with cargo reduction, lower gearing, and try to manage my 
own bodyweight.  Gram shaving a Gus is going to get lost in the noise, in 
my humble opinion.  Unless you can do something like Armand above and move 
your entire build over to another bike and earn yourself a do-over on your 
Gus build

BL in EC

On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 7:01:56 AM UTC-8 Richard Rose wrote:

> Thanks for that. I love every single thing about my Gus & it’s build - 
> except its weight. It’s a heavy beast & it only bothers me going uphill on 
> singletrack. When I built it up from bare frame I paid no attention to 
> weight. I even (foolishly?) sold a Cane Creek ee wings Ti crankset to fund 
> the frame purchase. I’d kinda like to do it over & take this shaving every 
> gram approach. But, it would have to start with wheels. I just do not know 
> of a better/lighter rim to use than the Cliffhanger? Is there another MTB 
> worthy rim that will support a 2.6” tire? 
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 2, 2024, at 10:43 PM, Armand Kizirian  wrote:
>
> Sure, feels a bit snappier off the line and surprisingly fast for an 
> upright bike (nice tires with light wheels mostly help here). If you get 
> really active with the bike, go for a spirited sprint, or chuck it in some 
> turns at an aggressive speed, the weight shift does feel more noticeable. 
> It's more for the feel, not concerned with actual speed. All-in-all not a 
> big deal though for a bike that is meant for pleasure and commuting. The 
> weight is easily replaced by what I usually carry for a strict pleasure 
> ride, which really is the main intention, to offset that weight. 70% of the 
> time I have 20-30lb's of cargo for my commutes, as I pack a mobile office, 
> food for the day, and usually a change of clothes as well. 
>
>
> The main motivation for me to do this work is that I was building from the 
> frame up, which is the time to do it. Doing this work down the line 
> requires changing nearly everything, which is not time or cost-effective, 
> like Bill pointed out. If I had kept the stock complete built, the only 
> thing I would bother with is the wheelset, which really is the only thing 
> you'll actually feel a difference on. 
>
> On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 5:51:23 PM UTC-8 Richard Rose wrote:
>
>> Very fascinating stuff. Two questions; how much did the 4+ pound weight 
>> loss cost & how does it feel? 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 2, 2024, at 7:06 PM, Armand Kizirian  wrote:
>>
>> Whoops! Good catch. From what's identified on that list, the correct 
>> total is 1938g / 4.27lbs. I feel silly after all that weighing and I didn't 
>> weigh the complete bike stock. Oh well! 
>>
>>
>> The 2.5lb+ drop in wheel weight also includes the exceptionally light, 
>> extralight rene herse casing, and lightweight Schwalbe butyl tubes. Though 
>> I have foregone both to run the endurance casing tubeless. 
>>
>> On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 2:46:46 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> Looks like 1188g of savings is the SUM of both wheels reduction.  670g + 
>>> 518g = 1,188g Now it makes sense.  Did you double-count the front wheel 
>>> savings in your total though?  Maybe it doesn't matter anymore.  :)
>>>
>>> BL in EC
>>>
>>> On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 2:44:17 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 I don't follow the math.  The rear wheel math makes sense to me:

 Heavy old rear wheel weight - Lighter new rear wheel weight = rear 
 wheel weight savings
 2252g - 1582g =670g = 23.634 oz (checks out)

 Heavy old front wheel weight - Lighter new front wheel weight = front 
 wheel weight savings
 1942g - 1424g = 518g =18.272 oz (Impressive, but you claim 1188g of 
 savings on the front wheel)

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA
 On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 12:10:31 PM UTC-8 Armand Kizirian wrote:

> For reference, I reduced the weight of my Platypus Complete by 
> 5.75lbs. I stripped the parts entirely for another frame, which was the 
> plan from the get go. The list below shows the weight difference of 
> parts. 
> It is mostly complete, but missing brakes and some other accessories, 
> because I ultimately lost interest and just wanted to finish the bike and 
> ride it. :) 
>
> [image: platypus weight savings.png]
>
> On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 8:16:37 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> CONFIRMED!  All of you who bought a CLEM complete from Rivendell are 
>> now confirmed as Weight Weenies!

Re: [RBW] Re: The way I design a build, and the first chapter

[Richard Rose]

I almost forgot. The wheelset I kind of fell into (Cliffhanger’s) came with a Son dynamo hub. I still do not own a dynamo powered light two years on. I think it’s a relative boat anchor? So yeah, an alternate wheelset might make a difference I would notice. Lastly there is the Silver double crank vs. a lightweight single not to mention the rather lovely Nexave rapid rise.., the list goes on.Sent from my iPhoneOn Dec 3, 2024, at 2:15 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:It sounds to me like you have a good handle on the trade-offs.  Good luck if you decide to do somethingBL in ECOn Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 10:53:08 AM UTC-8 Richard Rose wrote:Fair points. FYI, the Susie is (I think?) 8 ounces lighter. If I was truly concerned I could shed the B17 & steel Albacore handlebar for instant weight loss, but I love both.Sent from my iPhoneOn Dec 3, 2024, at 12:29 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:A gram-shaving Gus build sounds to me like a Susie build ;-). Rim-brake rim options for wide tires are indeed slim.  I've heard of an Alex DX-32 which may be ~75g lighter than a Cliffhanger.  In my stable, when the tires get that wide, that's where we switch over to disc brakes, which opens up a lot more light options, like the excellent Velocity Blunt SS.  If I had a Gus and wanted to make it easier to pedal up steep single track, I'd do it mostly with cargo reduction, lower gearing, and try to manage my own bodyweight.  Gram shaving a Gus is going to get lost in the noise, in my humble opinion.  Unless you can do something like Armand above and move your entire build over to another bike and earn yourself a do-over on your Gus buildBL in ECOn Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 7:01:56 AM UTC-8 Richard Rose wrote:Thanks for that. I love every single thing about my Gus & it’s build - except its weight. It’s a heavy beast & it only bothers me going uphill on singletrack. When I built it up from bare frame I paid no attention to weight. I even (foolishly?) sold a Cane Creek ee wings Ti crankset to fund the frame purchase. I’d kinda like to do it over & take this shaving every gram approach. But, it would have to start with wheels. I just do not know of a better/lighter rim to use than the Cliffhanger? Is there another MTB worthy rim that will support a 2.6” tire? Sent from my iPhoneOn Dec 2, 2024, at 10:43 PM, Armand Kizirian  wrote:Sure, feels a bit snappier off the line and surprisingly fast for an upright bike (nice tires with light wheels mostly help here). If you get really active with the bike, go for a spirited sprint, or chuck it in some turns at an aggressive speed, the weight shift does feel more noticeable. It's more for the feel, not concerned with actual speed. All-in-all not a big deal though for a bike that is meant for pleasure and commuting. The weight is easily replaced by what I usually carry for a strict pleasure ride, which really is the main intention, to offset that weight. 70% of the time I have 20-30lb's of cargo for my commutes, as I pack a mobile office, food for the day, and usually a change of clothes as well. The main motivation for me to do this work is that I was building from the frame up, which is the time to do it. Doing this work down the line requires changing nearly everything, which is not time or cost-effective, like Bill pointed out. If I had kept the stock complete built, the only thing I would bother with is the wheelset, which really is the only thing you'll actually feel a difference on. On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 5:51:23 PM UTC-8 Richard Rose wrote:Very fascinating stuff. Two questions; how much did the 4+ pound weight loss cost & how does it feel? Sent from my iPhoneOn Dec 2, 2024, at 7:06 PM, Armand Kizirian  wrote:Whoops! Good catch. From what's identified on that list, the correct total is 1938g / 4.27lbs. I feel silly after all that weighing and I didn't weigh the complete bike stock. Oh well! The 2.5lb+ drop in wheel weight also includes the exceptionally light, extralight rene herse casing, and lightweight Schwalbe butyl tubes. Though I have foregone both to run the endurance casing tubeless. On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 2:46:46 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:Looks like 1188g of savings is the SUM of both wheels reduction.  670g + 518g = 1,188g Now it makes sense.  Did you double-count the front wheel savings in your total though?  Maybe it doesn't matter anymore.  :)BL in ECOn Monday, December 2, 2024 at 2:44:17 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:I don't follow the math.  The rear wheel math makes sense to me:Heavy old rear wheel weight - Lighter new rear wheel weight = rear wheel weight savings2252g - 1582g =670g = 23.634 oz (checks out)Heavy old front wheel weight - Lighter new front wheel weight = front wheel weight savings1942g - 1424g = 518g =18.272 oz (Impressive, but you claim 1188g of savings on the front wheel)Bill LindsayEl Cerrito, CAOn Monday, December 2, 2024 at 12:10:31 PM UTC-8 Armand Kizirian wrote:For reference, 

[RBW] Re: A simple cutom steel BB cable guide

[Steve]

Kim, I love these sorts of DIY custom tweaks. At the very least they 
enhance the  sense of attachment to the bike. Thanks for sharing!

Steve

On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 5:08:27 PM UTC-5 Kim H. wrote:

> Supplemental:
> I may inject some grease into the plastic tube to see if it improves more 
> so. 
>
> Kim Hetzel. 
>
> On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 1:47:27 PM UTC-8 Kim H. wrote:
>
>> Upon owning a Rivendell Clem Smith Jr. "L" bicycle, I have very long 
>> chain stays. This has given me to thought of how can I increase the speed 
>> of shifting by reducing the friction and slack times for better shifting 
>> through the BB cable guide for my right indexed Shimano Dura-Ace SL-BS77 
>> bar end shifter.
>>
>> I came up with an idea. I took a curved V brake noodle. I removed both 
>> end pieces and the plastic sleeve from inside. I measured the appropriate 
>> length to cut it. I took a Dremel tool and bit. I carefully carved a wider 
>> channel on the plastic BB guide to accommodate the steel tube. I repeatedly 
>> kept bending the piece of tubing to the right angle for the best passage of 
>> the rear derailleur cable. I returned the plastic sleeve to the steel tube 
>> and cut it to a shorter length. 
>>
>> Once that was done, I placed two plastic cable housing caps on either 
>> end. I used Gorilla Clear Maximum Strength Construction Adhesive to glue 
>> down the steel tube onto the BB guide. Let it set for 24 hours. 
>>
>> Upon my return, I threaded the rear derailleur cable through the new tube 
>> and pulled out the slack in the Shimano RD M531 long caged rear derailleur 
>> and tighten the anchoring bolt. 
>>
>> My test ride results are as follows:
>>
>> The report on the custom BB steel cable guide I made, there was a 
>> significant improvement in shifting up into the lower gears, whilst 
>> shifting back down into the higher gears, there was a slight delay. With 
>> such a long rear derailleur cable, I believe this is going to be expected.  
>> I am happy to say that there was no "ghost shifting " whatsoever. YAY! All 
>> the slack in the cable was pulled out. (I had prior issues with 'ghost 
>> shifting". I was unaware of the rear derailleur cable as loose and needed 
>> fixing.)
>>
>> No grease nor oil has been applied inside the plastic sleeve of the tube 
>> at this time. 
>>
>> Overall, I feel my custom BB steel cable guide has been an improvement 
>> over what was before. 
>>
>> Yes, I do have a lot of helicopter tape on my frameset. 
>>
>> Kim Hetzel, who loves to tinker. 
>>
>> [image: 20241123_213949.jpg]
>>
>> [image: 20241128_060401.jpg]
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Bags!!! Carradice, Swift, Ortlieb

[Brian Turner]

All items have been sold! Thanks for looking, everyone!

Brian
Lex KY

On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 11:25:29 AM UTC-5 Brian Turner wrote:

> UPDATE:
>
> Carradice Nelson Longflap is still available for $70 + shipping.
>
> I thought I had a pending buyer, but it appears they have decided to not 
> communicate further. Just FYI, cheapest shipping to the west coast would be 
> $11.
>
> PHOTOS 
>
> On Friday, November 29, 2024 at 9:11:35 AM UTC-5 Brian Turner wrote:
>
>> UPDATE:
>>
>> Everything has now sold except for the Carradice Nelson Longflap. $70 + 
>> shipping if anyone is interested
>>
>> Brian
>> Lex KY
>>
>> On Thursday, November 28, 2024 at 9:45:38 AM UTC-5 Brian Turner wrote:
>>
>>> Updated availability and lowered pricing (!) below:
>>>
>>> Selling several bags for your consideration. Prices don't include 
>>> shipping. Feel free to post here or private message me if you have any 
>>> questions! - Brian
>>>
>>> Carradice Nelson Longflap - $70
>>> Gently used and in very good shape, despite its cosmetic appearance. I 
>>> had several patches on it, and you can see how the material faded but this 
>>> would all even out in good time and with use. The powdery-looking stuff is 
>>> just some wood ash from the last time I camped with the bag. Comes with 
>>> three leather straps.
>>>
>>> Swift Industries + Blue Lug "Caldera" Collection limited edition 
>>> Sidekick stem pouch - SOLD
>>> Gently used, with some slight darker discoloration from wear. Waxed 
>>> canvas - field tan and olive, with Blue Lug + Swift patch. Molle attachment 
>>> straps. Comes with all the original velcro straps.
>>>
>>> Swift Industries Rando Pocket / black - SOLD
>>> Basically new. Black X-Pac material with Molle attachment for other 
>>> Swift bags or for use with a Wald basket.
>>>
>>> Ortlieb Back Roller Plus rear pannier set / gray & black - $120
>>> Voluminous! 20L each. Very gently used. I painted a bit of hardware on 
>>> one of them red so I could easily differentiate which side of the bike that 
>>> particular pannier went on (this helps when packing and unpacking when 
>>> unattached to the bike during a tour). QL2 mounting hardware. Only one 
>>> shoulder strap could be found, unfortunately. The material is the nicer, 
>>> cloth-like finish, rather than the slick, rubbery stuff most Ortliebs are 
>>> made of.
>>>
>>> Ortlieb Classic handlebar bag + camera insert + locking mount + keys - 
>>> $65
>>> Matches the color and material of the rear pannier set. Comes with 
>>> padded camera insert that is customizable. Would sell them all together for 
>>> $175. Instructions for mounting bracket can be found here 
>>> 
>>>
>>> Rivendell SuperHupe bag support - SOLD
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: A simple cutom steel BB cable guide

[Isaak Oliansky]

This is objectively wonderful. This is now project #435 to get around to in 
the garage. 

On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 2:21:11 PM UTC-8 Steve wrote:

> Kim, I love these sorts of DIY custom tweaks. At the very least they 
> enhance the  sense of attachment to the bike. Thanks for sharing!
>
> Steve
>
> On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 5:08:27 PM UTC-5 Kim H. wrote:
>
>> Supplemental:
>> I may inject some grease into the plastic tube to see if it improves more 
>> so. 
>>
>> Kim Hetzel. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 1:47:27 PM UTC-8 Kim H. wrote:
>>
>>> Upon owning a Rivendell Clem Smith Jr. "L" bicycle, I have very long 
>>> chain stays. This has given me to thought of how can I increase the speed 
>>> of shifting by reducing the friction and slack times for better shifting 
>>> through the BB cable guide for my right indexed Shimano Dura-Ace SL-BS77 
>>> bar end shifter.
>>>
>>> I came up with an idea. I took a curved V brake noodle. I removed both 
>>> end pieces and the plastic sleeve from inside. I measured the appropriate 
>>> length to cut it. I took a Dremel tool and bit. I carefully carved a wider 
>>> channel on the plastic BB guide to accommodate the steel tube. I repeatedly 
>>> kept bending the piece of tubing to the right angle for the best passage of 
>>> the rear derailleur cable. I returned the plastic sleeve to the steel tube 
>>> and cut it to a shorter length. 
>>>
>>> Once that was done, I placed two plastic cable housing caps on either 
>>> end. I used Gorilla Clear Maximum Strength Construction Adhesive to glue 
>>> down the steel tube onto the BB guide. Let it set for 24 hours. 
>>>
>>> Upon my return, I threaded the rear derailleur cable through the new 
>>> tube and pulled out the slack in the Shimano RD M531 long caged rear 
>>> derailleur and tighten the anchoring bolt. 
>>>
>>> My test ride results are as follows:
>>>
>>> The report on the custom BB steel cable guide I made, there was a 
>>> significant improvement in shifting up into the lower gears, whilst 
>>> shifting back down into the higher gears, there was a slight delay. With 
>>> such a long rear derailleur cable, I believe this is going to be expected.  
>>> I am happy to say that there was no "ghost shifting " whatsoever. YAY! All 
>>> the slack in the cable was pulled out. (I had prior issues with 'ghost 
>>> shifting". I was unaware of the rear derailleur cable as loose and needed 
>>> fixing.)
>>>
>>> No grease nor oil has been applied inside the plastic sleeve of the tube 
>>> at this time. 
>>>
>>> Overall, I feel my custom BB steel cable guide has been an improvement 
>>> over what was before. 
>>>
>>> Yes, I do have a lot of helicopter tape on my frameset. 
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel, who loves to tinker. 
>>>
>>> [image: 20241123_213949.jpg]
>>>
>>> [image: 20241128_060401.jpg]
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: A simple cutom steel BB cable guide

[Kim H.]

Supplemental:
I may inject some grease into the plastic tube to see if it improves more 
so. 

Kim Hetzel. 

On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 1:47:27 PM UTC-8 Kim H. wrote:

> Upon owning a Rivendell Clem Smith Jr. "L" bicycle, I have very long chain 
> stays. This has given me to thought of how can I increase the speed of 
> shifting by reducing the friction and slack times for better shifting 
> through the BB cable guide for my right indexed Shimano Dura-Ace SL-BS77 
> bar end shifter.
>
> I came up with an idea. I took a curved V brake noodle. I removed both end 
> pieces and the plastic sleeve from inside. I measured the appropriate 
> length to cut it. I took a Dremel tool and bit. I carefully carved a wider 
> channel on the plastic BB guide to accommodate the steel tube. I repeatedly 
> kept bending the piece of tubing to the right angle for the best passage of 
> the rear derailleur cable. I returned the plastic sleeve to the steel tube 
> and cut it to a shorter length. 
>
> Once that was done, I placed two plastic cable housing caps on either end. 
> I used Gorilla Clear Maximum Strength Construction Adhesive to glue down 
> the steel tube onto the BB guide. Let it set for 24 hours. 
>
> Upon my return, I threaded the rear derailleur cable through the new tube 
> and pulled out the slack in the Shimano RD M531 long caged rear derailleur 
> and tighten the anchoring bolt. 
>
> My test ride results are as follows:
>
> The report on the custom BB steel cable guide I made, there was a 
> significant improvement in shifting up into the lower gears, whilst 
> shifting back down into the higher gears, there was a slight delay. With 
> such a long rear derailleur cable, I believe this is going to be expected.  
> I am happy to say that there was no "ghost shifting " whatsoever. YAY! All 
> the slack in the cable was pulled out. (I had prior issues with 'ghost 
> shifting". I was unaware of the rear derailleur cable as loose and needed 
> fixing.)
>
> No grease nor oil has been applied inside the plastic sleeve of the tube 
> at this time. 
>
> Overall, I feel my custom BB steel cable guide has been an improvement 
> over what was before. 
>
> Yes, I do have a lot of helicopter tape on my frameset. 
>
> Kim Hetzel, who loves to tinker. 
>
> [image: 20241123_213949.jpg]
>
> [image: 20241128_060401.jpg]
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: 64cm Toyo/Waterford Rivendell Atlantis

[Brian Turner]

My Toyo (previously assumed to be a Waterford) has mid-fork eyelets and a 
kickstand plate, but a Toyo serial number. I think learning how to 
differentiate between the serial codes on the BB is really the only way to know.

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[RBW] RH double: spindle length?

[J-D Bamford]

For a Rene Herse double crank (46-30) on a trad’ish randonneur (130mm rear 
spacing, 700x32mm tire clearance + fenders, straight chainstays not 
curved)… what actual BB spindle lengths have people had success with? I’m 
aware of the RH charts… one chart suggests 110mm and the other chart 
suggests 107mm - so I’m more curious about actual experience ‘from the 
field’.


Origin of my inquiry… poor FD shifts (FSA/IRD “compact double”, I’ve tried 
them both)… either it throws my chain beyond the big ring and onto the 
crank arm… or I limit its travel and it won’t shift big at all. The narrow 
Q on the RH crank arm minimizes any experimentation with FD cage angle. And 
my cage sits just a mm or two above the big ring, akin to Shimano’s 
alignment sticker. So now I’m wondering if my 113mm spindle puts the FD 
cage too far out in its swing. I could easily fit a 110mm spindle, and 
probably 107mm based on eyeballing clearance to the chainstays. Maybe 
shorter spindles would improve FD throw/alignment? Thanks in advance for 
any thoughts on this wandering missive. 

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[RBW] Re: RH double: spindle length?

[J-D Bamford]

Further context… I’ll be moving my drivetrain to a new 2024 “lugged 
Roadini” when those frames ship. Instead of reusing my 113mm BB, I can go 
with Riv’s default 110mm or I could source a 107mm and begin experimenting 
first with that (and BB shims). I dunno.


On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 7:03:20 PM UTC-7 J-D Bamford wrote:

> For a Rene Herse double crank (46-30) on a trad’ish randonneur (130mm rear 
> spacing, 700x32mm tire clearance + fenders, straight chainstays not 
> curved)… what actual BB spindle lengths have people had success with? I’m 
> aware of the RH charts… one chart suggests 110mm and the other chart 
> suggests 107mm - so I’m more curious about actual experience ‘from the 
> field’.
>
>
> Origin of my inquiry… poor FD shifts (FSA/IRD “compact double”, I’ve tried 
> them both)… either it throws my chain beyond the big ring and onto the 
> crank arm… or I limit its travel and it won’t shift big at all. The narrow 
> Q on the RH crank arm minimizes any experimentation with FD cage angle. And 
> my cage sits just a mm or two above the big ring, akin to Shimano’s 
> alignment sticker. So now I’m wondering if my 113mm spindle puts the FD 
> cage too far out in its swing. I could easily fit a 110mm spindle, and 
> probably 107mm based on eyeballing clearance to the chainstays. Maybe 
> shorter spindles would improve FD throw/alignment? Thanks in advance for 
> any thoughts on this wandering missive. 
>

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[RBW] Re: RH double: spindle length?

[Bill Lindsay]

On my Roadeo I use a Titanium White Industries 108mm with a 46/30 Rene 
Herse 9-12 speed crankset.  I use a Dura Ace 7700 front Der
On my Norther Lyon I use the fancy high end IRD/Sugino ball and cup BB with 
a 107mm spindle and an older Rene Herse 44/28 crankset.  I use a CX70 front 
derailleur
On my custom Falconer with a 120mm OLD in back I use a Phil Wood 103mm BB 
with a Rene Herse 9-12 speed crankset and 42/26 rings with a CX70 front 
Der. 

All three of these bikes have Dura Ace 7700 down tube shifters.   

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 6:05:26 PM UTC-8 isp...@gmail.com wrote:

> Further context… I’ll be moving my drivetrain to a new 2024 “lugged 
> Roadini” when those frames ship. Instead of reusing my 113mm BB, I can go 
> with Riv’s default 110mm or I could source a 107mm and begin experimenting 
> first with that (and BB shims). I dunno.
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 7:03:20 PM UTC-7 J-D Bamford wrote:
>
>> For a Rene Herse double crank (46-30) on a trad’ish randonneur (130mm 
>> rear spacing, 700x32mm tire clearance + fenders, straight chainstays not 
>> curved)… what actual BB spindle lengths have people had success with? I’m 
>> aware of the RH charts… one chart suggests 110mm and the other chart 
>> suggests 107mm - so I’m more curious about actual experience ‘from the 
>> field’.
>>
>>
>> Origin of my inquiry… poor FD shifts (FSA/IRD “compact double”, I’ve 
>> tried them both)… either it throws my chain beyond the big ring and onto 
>> the crank arm… or I limit its travel and it won’t shift big at all. The 
>> narrow Q on the RH crank arm minimizes any experimentation with FD cage 
>> angle. And my cage sits just a mm or two above the big ring, akin to 
>> Shimano’s alignment sticker. So now I’m wondering if my 113mm spindle puts 
>> the FD cage too far out in its swing. I could easily fit a 110mm spindle, 
>> and probably 107mm based on eyeballing clearance to the chainstays. Maybe 
>> shorter spindles would improve FD throw/alignment? Thanks in advance for 
>> any thoughts on this wandering missive. 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: The perfect combination tire

[Jason Fuller]

The Continental Terra Trail in 650x47 are a wee bit undersize based on your 
criteria but they can be found for quite cheap while being lightweight and 
fast rolling. They do have puncture protection but they won't offer 
Marathon-level protection. Depends if giving up a little protection for 
speed and comfort is acceptable - for me, this is true in warmer temps but 
less true in winter 

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Re: [RBW] “Best practices” for selling bicycles online without getting hoodwinked?

[meti...@gmail.com]

I’m delighted to report that the Clem sale that led me to post here a few 
days ago has ended successfully. The buyer (who IS a member of this group 
after all and who read the thread with some amusement as it all unfolded) 
and I reached a very fine conclusion. I’ve been paid, and the Clem is in 
the hands of my LBS being packed for shipment later this week. 

I’m happy to say that I really like the buyer and am very very pleased that 
it all went so smoothly and with such good faith.

Thanks to all of you for guiding me when I got lost in the weeds. :)

Liz in Cincinnati



On Thursday, November 28, 2024 at 7:45:31 AM UTC-5 meti...@gmail.com wrote:

> Joe, right…I mean, it’s one thing to say he THINKS he can get it shipped 
> for $100, and another thing to report that he’s FOUND a shipper to handle 
> it for $100…and without identifying the shipping company  (and only 
>  minutes of my giving him that responsibility)…this was one of those red 
> flags. 
>
> Having now paused, listened to my intuition, and having asked this group 
> for guidance, I’m prepared to break up with my buyer. Next step is to speak 
> with him. I’ll certainly keep you all posted about how it plays out, but no 
> matter what occurs, I’m REALLY grateful for your suggestions! 
>
> Happy Thanksgiving, all. 
>
> Liz
> On Thursday, November 28, 2024 at 1:41:48 AM UTC-5 Don Don wrote:
>
>> Liz, I suggest completing the transaction with the buyer without 
>> arranging shipping. Afterward, have the buyer contact the shop directly to 
>> handle shipping.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 27, 2024, at 9:03 PM, meti...@gmail.com  wrote:
>>
>> I responded to a FB query for a blue, 52cm Clem Smith Jr. L  on the 
>> “Rivendell Bicycles BUY/SELL/TRADE” page. I have that very bike, and  now 
>> that I have a Platypus, I’m willing to sell my Clem. 
>>
>>
>> The potential buyer and I have had a flurry of FB messenger exchanges 
>> about price, etc, today, and we’ve reached an agreeable price. Now comes 
>> the tricky part (for me): 
>>
>> My bike shop will disassemble the bike and box it. I know what they’ll 
>> charge for that.
>>
>>  But I don’t know the best way to have it shipped or how to figure the 
>> price for shipping…and if the buyer’s gonna pay the shipping, how does that 
>> work? Does he choose the carrier or do I?
>>
>> I’m cautious about all of this…I don’t know how the buyer and I can trust 
>> one another…there have been some ever-so-slight oddities in our message 
>> exchanges that make me a tad uneasy. I don’t care at all about the oddities 
>> IF the buyer pays the bill before I send him the bike—is that the customary 
>> order to these transactions?
>>
>> I’m pretty comfortable selling what I think are higher-ticket items when 
>> the transaction occurs face to face, but I’m not at all sure of the process 
>> online when it also includes third parties like shipping companies.
>>
>> So, I’m asking for direction from  this group, please (and the man I’m 
>> dealing with doesn’t seem to be a member here). 
>>
>> Liz in Cincinnati 
>> (And if this deal falls through let it be known that, I’m open to selling 
>> my pretty Clem) 
>>
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: The way I design a build, and the first chapter

[Richard Rose]

Interesting. I did not think the quill could take a 55. But even that is a far cry from my 2.6” tires.Regarding the dynamo - I got a nice deal on the wheels & envisioned some possible nighttime adventures in addition to standard MTB duties. So far it’s been exclusively MTB - nothing at night.Sent from my iPhoneOn Dec 3, 2024, at 9:40 PM, Jason Fuller  wrote:Richard - regarding the weight of dynamo, a friend did a pretty comprehensive gram-counting exercise on dynamo vs. battery lights and found that dynamo is about 170g heavier on average, if I'm remembering correctly.  It assumes though that you're carrying battery lights if you don't have dynamo, which is obviously not always the case unless you're a pack-rat like I am.  Battery lights themselves are heavier than dynamo lights, so that partially offsets the mass of the hub.  I love the Blue Lug Koma lights; minimal and not bright enough to light the way at night but super light (and can be unscrewed leaving only the ~2g base in place). This is what I'd do on a gram-counting build to maintain practicality. Cliffhangers are beautiful rims that build up so wonderfully but good gosh, they are heavy. Quill are significantly lighter while maintaining some extra width (not as much).  Crust makes some really light-for-their-width options but I've seen too many crack at the eyelets for me to buy them, honestly. A weight-sensitive fatter tire build for me would be Quill rims and RH 55mm knobby tires in Extralight casing, both 650B and 700c options available. 



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[RBW] Re: The perfect combination tire

[Bruce Byker James]

Thanks for the suggestions! 
I've looked at the Byway in 700c for another bike, but hadn't thought about 
it here.
I've used many variations of Schwalbe Marathons before, but hadn't seen the 
Almotion, so that's definitely a contender.
I've looked at Big Bens before, but they seem not that different than the 
Kenda Kwick 6, though maybe a little deeper tread? Trying to figure out 
which Kenda I have, though, revealed that they're having a big sale, so I'm 
off to peruse their offerings next.

Happy to hear any other ideas, too!

 - Bruce

On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 7:32:48 PM UTC-5 DTL wrote:

> I will second the Marathon Almotions - they are great. Roll great but all 
> the puncture protection. 
>
> On Wednesday, December 4, 2024 at 11:07:11 AM UTC+11 Garth wrote:
>
>> Schwalbe Big Bens, the Raceguard versions, are made in that size and fit 
>> the bill perfectly. About $45-50 retail USA, very resistant to flats, roll 
>> easy, have a modest tread to them light off-road use, and they are just 
>> plain fun to ride. Riv has sold these for a long time as they are a perfect 
>> tire for a balance of road feel, weight, cost and puncture resistance. 
>> On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 3:01:59 PM UTC-5 Nick Payne wrote:
>>
>>> Schwalbe Marathon Almotion is available in 2.15" width. They roll out 
>>> pretty well and I haven't punctured one yet.
>>>
>>> https://www.schwalbe.com/en/Marathon-Almotion-11654055
>>>
>>> These are not the same as the ordinary Schwalbe Marathon tyres, which 
>>> are considerably heavier and slower.
>>>
>>> Nick Payne
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: The perfect combination tire

[Nick Payne]

 Schwalbe Marathon Almotion is available in 2.15" width. They roll out 
pretty well and I haven't punctured one yet.

https://www.schwalbe.com/en/Marathon-Almotion-11654055

These are not the same as the ordinary Schwalbe Marathon tyres, which are 
considerably heavier and slower.

Nick Payne

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Re: [RBW] Re: The way I design a build, and the first chapter

[Bill Lindsay]

It sounds to me like you have a good handle on the trade-offs.  Good luck 
if you decide to do something

BL in EC

On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 10:53:08 AM UTC-8 Richard Rose wrote:

> Fair points. FYI, the Susie is (I think?) 8 ounces lighter. If I was truly 
> concerned I could shed the B17 & steel Albacore handlebar for instant 
> weight loss, but I love both.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 3, 2024, at 12:29 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
> A gram-shaving Gus build sounds to me like a Susie build ;-). 
>
>
> Rim-brake rim options for wide tires are indeed slim.  I've heard of an 
> Alex DX-32 which may be ~75g lighter than a Cliffhanger.  In my stable, 
> when the tires get that wide, that's where we switch over to disc brakes, 
> which opens up a lot more light options, like the excellent Velocity Blunt 
> SS.  
>
> If I had a Gus and wanted to make it easier to pedal up steep single 
> track, I'd do it mostly with cargo reduction, lower gearing, and try to 
> manage my own bodyweight.  Gram shaving a Gus is going to get lost in the 
> noise, in my humble opinion.  Unless you can do something like Armand above 
> and move your entire build over to another bike and earn yourself a do-over 
> on your Gus build
>
> BL in EC
>
> On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 7:01:56 AM UTC-8 Richard Rose wrote:
>
>> Thanks for that. I love every single thing about my Gus & it’s build - 
>> except its weight. It’s a heavy beast & it only bothers me going uphill on 
>> singletrack. When I built it up from bare frame I paid no attention to 
>> weight. I even (foolishly?) sold a Cane Creek ee wings Ti crankset to fund 
>> the frame purchase. I’d kinda like to do it over & take this shaving every 
>> gram approach. But, it would have to start with wheels. I just do not know 
>> of a better/lighter rim to use than the Cliffhanger? Is there another MTB 
>> worthy rim that will support a 2.6” tire? 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 2, 2024, at 10:43 PM, Armand Kizirian  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Sure, feels a bit snappier off the line and surprisingly fast for an 
>> upright bike (nice tires with light wheels mostly help here). If you get 
>> really active with the bike, go for a spirited sprint, or chuck it in some 
>> turns at an aggressive speed, the weight shift does feel more noticeable. 
>> It's more for the feel, not concerned with actual speed. All-in-all not a 
>> big deal though for a bike that is meant for pleasure and commuting. The 
>> weight is easily replaced by what I usually carry for a strict pleasure 
>> ride, which really is the main intention, to offset that weight. 70% of the 
>> time I have 20-30lb's of cargo for my commutes, as I pack a mobile office, 
>> food for the day, and usually a change of clothes as well. 
>>
>>
>> The main motivation for me to do this work is that I was building from 
>> the frame up, which is the time to do it. Doing this work down the line 
>> requires changing nearly everything, which is not time or cost-effective, 
>> like Bill pointed out. If I had kept the stock complete built, the only 
>> thing I would bother with is the wheelset, which really is the only thing 
>> you'll actually feel a difference on. 
>>
>> On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 5:51:23 PM UTC-8 Richard Rose wrote:
>>
>>> Very fascinating stuff. Two questions; how much did the 4+ pound weight 
>>> loss cost & how does it feel? 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Dec 2, 2024, at 7:06 PM, Armand Kizirian  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Whoops! Good catch. From what's identified on that list, the correct 
>>> total is 1938g / 4.27lbs. I feel silly after all that weighing and I didn't 
>>> weigh the complete bike stock. Oh well! 
>>>
>>>
>>> The 2.5lb+ drop in wheel weight also includes the exceptionally light, 
>>> extralight rene herse casing, and lightweight Schwalbe butyl tubes. Though 
>>> I have foregone both to run the endurance casing tubeless. 
>>>
>>> On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 2:46:46 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 Looks like 1188g of savings is the SUM of both wheels reduction.  670g 
 + 518g = 1,188g Now it makes sense.  Did you double-count the front wheel 
 savings in your total though?  Maybe it doesn't matter anymore.  :)

 BL in EC

 On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 2:44:17 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> I don't follow the math.  The rear wheel math makes sense to me:
>
> Heavy old rear wheel weight - Lighter new rear wheel weight = rear 
> wheel weight savings
> 2252g - 1582g =670g = 23.634 oz (checks out)
>
> Heavy old front wheel weight - Lighter new front wheel weight = front 
> wheel weight savings
> 1942g - 1424g = 518g =18.272 oz (Impressive, but you claim 1188g of 
> savings on the front wheel)
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
> On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 12:10:31 PM UTC-8 Armand Kizirian wrote:
>
>> For reference, I reduced the weight of my Platypus Complete by 
>> 5.75lbs. I stripped th

Re: [RBW] Re: The way I design a build, and the first chapter

[Richard Rose]

Fair points. FYI, the Susie is (I think?) 8 ounces lighter. If I was truly concerned I could shed the B17 & steel Albacore handlebar for instant weight loss, but I love both.Sent from my iPhoneOn Dec 3, 2024, at 12:29 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:A gram-shaving Gus build sounds to me like a Susie build ;-). Rim-brake rim options for wide tires are indeed slim.  I've heard of an Alex DX-32 which may be ~75g lighter than a Cliffhanger.  In my stable, when the tires get that wide, that's where we switch over to disc brakes, which opens up a lot more light options, like the excellent Velocity Blunt SS.  If I had a Gus and wanted to make it easier to pedal up steep single track, I'd do it mostly with cargo reduction, lower gearing, and try to manage my own bodyweight.  Gram shaving a Gus is going to get lost in the noise, in my humble opinion.  Unless you can do something like Armand above and move your entire build over to another bike and earn yourself a do-over on your Gus buildBL in ECOn Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 7:01:56 AM UTC-8 Richard Rose wrote:Thanks for that. I love every single thing about my Gus & it’s build - except its weight. It’s a heavy beast & it only bothers me going uphill on singletrack. When I built it up from bare frame I paid no attention to weight. I even (foolishly?) sold a Cane Creek ee wings Ti crankset to fund the frame purchase. I’d kinda like to do it over & take this shaving every gram approach. But, it would have to start with wheels. I just do not know of a better/lighter rim to use than the Cliffhanger? Is there another MTB worthy rim that will support a 2.6” tire? Sent from my iPhoneOn Dec 2, 2024, at 10:43 PM, Armand Kizirian  wrote:Sure, feels a bit snappier off the line and surprisingly fast for an upright bike (nice tires with light wheels mostly help here). If you get really active with the bike, go for a spirited sprint, or chuck it in some turns at an aggressive speed, the weight shift does feel more noticeable. It's more for the feel, not concerned with actual speed. All-in-all not a big deal though for a bike that is meant for pleasure and commuting. The weight is easily replaced by what I usually carry for a strict pleasure ride, which really is the main intention, to offset that weight. 70% of the time I have 20-30lb's of cargo for my commutes, as I pack a mobile office, food for the day, and usually a change of clothes as well. The main motivation for me to do this work is that I was building from the frame up, which is the time to do it. Doing this work down the line requires changing nearly everything, which is not time or cost-effective, like Bill pointed out. If I had kept the stock complete built, the only thing I would bother with is the wheelset, which really is the only thing you'll actually feel a difference on. On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 5:51:23 PM UTC-8 Richard Rose wrote:Very fascinating stuff. Two questions; how much did the 4+ pound weight loss cost & how does it feel? Sent from my iPhoneOn Dec 2, 2024, at 7:06 PM, Armand Kizirian  wrote:Whoops! Good catch. From what's identified on that list, the correct total is 1938g / 4.27lbs. I feel silly after all that weighing and I didn't weigh the complete bike stock. Oh well! The 2.5lb+ drop in wheel weight also includes the exceptionally light, extralight rene herse casing, and lightweight Schwalbe butyl tubes. Though I have foregone both to run the endurance casing tubeless. On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 2:46:46 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:Looks like 1188g of savings is the SUM of both wheels reduction.  670g + 518g = 1,188g Now it makes sense.  Did you double-count the front wheel savings in your total though?  Maybe it doesn't matter anymore.  :)BL in ECOn Monday, December 2, 2024 at 2:44:17 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:I don't follow the math.  The rear wheel math makes sense to me:Heavy old rear wheel weight - Lighter new rear wheel weight = rear wheel weight savings2252g - 1582g =670g = 23.634 oz (checks out)Heavy old front wheel weight - Lighter new front wheel weight = front wheel weight savings1942g - 1424g = 518g =18.272 oz (Impressive, but you claim 1188g of savings on the front wheel)Bill LindsayEl Cerrito, CAOn Monday, December 2, 2024 at 12:10:31 PM UTC-8 Armand Kizirian wrote:For reference, I reduced the weight of my Platypus Complete by 5.75lbs. I stripped the parts entirely for another frame, which was the plan from the get go. The list below shows the weight difference of parts. It is mostly complete, but missing brakes and some other accessories, because I ultimately lost interest and just wanted to finish the bike and ride it. :) On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 8:16:37 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:CONFIRMED!  All of you who bought a CLEM complete from Rivendell are now confirmed as Weight Weenies!!  Pop those reflectors off to save a gram or two!BL in ECOn Monday, December 2, 2024 at 7:51:04 AM UTC-8 Ted Durant wrote:On Monday, December

[RBW] Re: A simple cutom steel BB cable guide

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

Sorry but I'm going to rain on your parade a bit by being skeptical about 
the improvements you claimed.

There is very little friction from the bend at the bottom of the BB shell, 
particularly when a plastic guide is involved – the contact is short and 
(more importantly) the tension of the shift cable is light. Most of the 
friction will be from the significantly longer runs of housing from the 
barend shifter to the cable stop, and from the cable stop to the 
derailleur. Anyone with downtube friction shifters that are set too light 
will attest to almost frictionless shifting with all the tactile feedback 
coming from the derailleur return spring, particularly with the front 
derailleur (that actually wraps more degrees around the plastic BB shell 
guide).

I suspect by having to thread the shifter cable through your contraption, 
you've also cleaned up at least the derailleur-side of the run and refined 
the cable adjustment, leading to most of the improvement you observed. In 
addition, while the newer Rivendells have longer chain stays necessitating 
longer cable runs, the extra length is *unhoused*, meaning there should be 
no additional friction compared to bikes with "normal" chain stay lengths.

Last but not least, the BB shell is at the lowest point of the cable run. 
Water ingested into the custom tube guide won't be able to evaporate away 
quickly. Even if you use stainless cable and tubing, there's still pooling, 
which shouldn't happen with a well-maintained bike.


On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 1:47:27 PM UTC-8 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> Upon owning a Rivendell Clem Smith Jr. "L" bicycle, I have very long chain 
> stays. This has given me to thought of how can I increase the speed of 
> shifting by reducing the friction and slack times for better shifting 
> through the BB cable guide for my right indexed Shimano Dura-Ace SL-BS77 
> bar end shifter.
>
> I came up with an idea. I took a curved V brake noodle. I removed both end 
> pieces and the plastic sleeve from inside. I measured the appropriate 
> length to cut it. I took a Dremel tool and bit. I carefully carved a wider 
> channel on the plastic BB guide to accommodate the steel tube. I repeatedly 
> kept bending the piece of tubing to the right angle for the best passage of 
> the rear derailleur cable. I returned the plastic sleeve to the steel tube 
> and cut it to a shorter length. 
>
> Once that was done, I placed two plastic cable housing caps on either end. 
> I used Gorilla Clear Maximum Strength Construction Adhesive to glue down 
> the steel tube onto the BB guide. Let it set for 24 hours. 
>
> Upon my return, I threaded the rear derailleur cable through the new tube 
> and pulled out the slack in the Shimano RD M531 long caged rear derailleur 
> and tighten the anchoring bolt. 
>
> My test ride results are as follows:
>
> The report on the custom BB steel cable guide I made, there was a 
> significant improvement in shifting up into the lower gears, whilst 
> shifting back down into the higher gears, there was a slight delay. With 
> such a long rear derailleur cable, I believe this is going to be expected.  
> I am happy to say that there was no "ghost shifting " whatsoever. YAY! All 
> the slack in the cable was pulled out. (I had prior issues with 'ghost 
> shifting". I was unaware of the rear derailleur cable as loose and needed 
> fixing.)
>
> No grease nor oil has been applied inside the plastic sleeve of the tube 
> at this time. 
>
> Overall, I feel my custom BB steel cable guide has been an improvement 
> over what was before. 
>
> Yes, I do have a lot of helicopter tape on my frameset. 
>
> Kim Hetzel, who loves to tinker. 
>
> [image: 20241123_213949.jpg]
>
> [image: 20241128_060401.jpg]
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Motolite V-Brake Fit Issue - Toyo Atlantis (26")

[Joe Bernard]

My custom uses a road-ish width fork and Velocity Atlas rims, the Motolite 
arms splay out a bit. Yours is a little more pronounced cuz your rims are 
so wide but if they're working I say enjoy the ride! 

Joe Bernard 

On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 7:41:53 PM UTC-8 Garrett K wrote:

> Hi folks. I can't seem to get these v-brakes more vertical, not so splayed 
> out. They work fine.
>
> Known issue: Canti posts are very narrow on the fork (72mm!) and the 
> Cliffhanger rims are very wide, 30mm. They don't seem to play nice. Any 
> thoughts?
>
> I'd rather not go with cantis and short pull levers. I love the Motolites. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Some very basic metalworking / frame repair advice

[Danny]

Hi Eric,

Sorry about your bad eBay experience, I've been there before and it's not a
good feeling! I've got an eBay-purchased frame currently in for a seat tube
crack repair. (Of course I didn't discover the issue until it was too late
to take any recourse, live and learn I guess!)

Anyway, there was a recent thread on iBoB covering your very issue with
that seat lug point.
https://groups.google.com/g/internet-bob/c/7tsuUSA_D7E/m/qCYOA5JaAQAJ
Good luck!

-Danny

On Tue, Dec 3, 2024 at 9:53 PM Eric Karnes  wrote:

> Hi all!
>
>
> The following is a cautionary tale and a request for some basic
> metalworking advice.
>
>
> A few months back I found a Rambouillet in my size on Ebay. After some
> waffling, I decided to purchase it as a bike to keep at my brother’s house
> so that we could do rides together when I take the train down from Philly
> to visit.
>
>
> The seller found a local shop willing to pack and ship the bike to my
> brother in Baltimore. Needless to say, when I finally open the box this
> weekend, it was by far the shittiest bike packing job I’ve ever come
> across. There was literally no padding whatsoever in the box to protect the
> frame and parts. So the delicate areas–seatpost clamp, bottom bracket, nor
> derailleur hanger–were open to banging during shipping. The removed front
> wheel scraped the top tube pretty badly, but it appears to just be
> cosmetic. The bigger issue is that the Rivendell seat lug was bent at its
> point, as you can see in the photo below. So…
>
>
> (1) This just emphasized how I should stick to only buying bikes and
> frames from the trusted sellers on this list. This marks the end of my
> bike-buying on Ebay.
>
>
> (2) Second, any advice from metalworking aficionados on how to repair this
> myself? I know I should probably take it to a frame builder, but I’m
> moderately handy and could maybe save the money and hassle of schlepping it
> to a professional. That said, I only have experience filing things like
> rack struts and the like. Any advice on tools or techniques? What files to
> use and it what order?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Eric
>
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> .
>

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[RBW] Re: The way I design a build, and the first chapter

[Collin A]

To pile onto the bolt-gram-counting-train, Paragon Machine Works is having 
a holiday sale and you can get some nice M5 and M6 Ti bolts for about $1-2 
each. That falls under Bill's $1/g (approximate) limit. Bonus for being 
local!

I picked up a few for fender mounting and to save some weight on the 
seatpost binder bolt.

Collin in Bolt-town

On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 4:33:26 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> In my original post I said: "The bolts gives (sic) the opportunity to do 
> some gram-chasing."  
>
> I got a $90 McMaster-Carr order in today, featuring 20 aluminum bolts and 
> 8 Titanium bolts.  By my count, I think 10 of those 28 bolts are going to 
> end up on my CHG build.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, November 28, 2024 at 8:48:47 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> There's another thread on how I'm going to take a run at a <9kg Gallop 
>> build.  I've started this thread to lay out exactly how I plan out all the 
>> builds in my workshop.  I'll apologize in advance for the long narrative, 
>> but hopefully the few of you who poke around on Thanksgiving Day are 
>> looking for something to read...
>>
>> My freshman year of high school, in the Fall of 1983 (Troy High School, 
>> Fullerton, CA) I took a typing class as an elective.  It made perfect sense 
>> to me as preparation for taking a computer elective the following semester, 
>> ha ha.  We had a project in typing class to type up a formatted outline, 
>> following all the rules of categorization with the indents and headings 
>> just so.  Each student had to come up with their own content for the 
>> project and type it up.  In the Fall of 1983 I was a habitual cover to 
>> cover reader of Bicycling and Winning! magazines.  I was obsessed with a 
>> Bruce Gordon Chinook in one of those magazines, and I used the build list 
>> for that bike as the content for my typing project.  From that moment 
>> forward, every build fits into the same framework.  Every build is 
>> comprised of five categories:
>>
>> 1. Frame set
>> 2. Wheels
>> 3. Drivetrain
>> 4. Components
>> 5. Accessories
>>
>> I throw every build into a spreadsheet in those five groups.  It serves 
>> to organize my thoughts for every build, and as a checklist before a build 
>> begins, and sometimes helps me pull the build together mentally to 
>> anticipate the places where a nuanced build might have places where I could 
>> paint myself into a corner.  Sometimes, but not always, I'll use columns 
>> for each line to list the weight and/or the price of the stuff I'm pulling 
>> together.  By filling out that spreadsheet exhaustively with best guesses I 
>> can get into the ballpark on total price or total weight as a preview.  As 
>> guesses become certainties, the numbers come into focus.  As I've gotten 
>> older, most of my builds have targets that have nothing to do with price or 
>> with weight: they are more about how exactly I want to experience cycling 
>> on that particular machine.  The term I use to capture that relationship 
>> between the build and its target is the "build concept".  
>>
>> So, let's start running through the build for my Gallop: Section 1 is the 
>> Frame Set, which has three main parts
>>
>> 1. Frame set
>> A. Frame 
>> B. Fork
>> C. Headset
>>
>> When I get my frame set, I'll remove the fork and weigh the fork with the 
>> fork crown.  I'll pop out the headset cups and weigh the headset minus the 
>> fork crown.  I'll remove the pre-installed bottom bracket and weigh the 
>> bare frame.  Then I will remove every bolt that is screwed into the frame 
>> and weigh that collection of bolts separately and re-weigh the completely 
>> stripped down frame.  
>>
>> The Riv page for the FSA Headset claims it weighs 93.8 grams.  That's 
>> very light. 100g is the typical placeholder for a headset when I'm planning 
>> something out.  Over 100g and I could substitute something lighter.  Under 
>> 100g is pretty good.  If it's really ~94g I'm keeping it.  
>>
>> The bolts gives the opportunity to do some gram-chasing.  Big picture, 
>> bolts are always steel, there are ways to make those steel bolts lighter. 
>>  They are:
>>
>> 1. Air is weightless.  Can you live without that bolt?  If so, consider 
>> leaving it out.  That's free and totally weightless
>> 2. Plastic is almost as light as air, and is very cheap.  Plastic metric 
>> bolts in all sizes are made.  They weigh almost nothing and cost very 
>> little.  If you don't need to bolt anything to that threaded hole, but want 
>> to plug the hole, consider plastic and screw it in with just your fingers.  
>> 3. Aluminum is 1/3 the weight of steel.  Virtually every high end 
>> mountain bike has aluminum water bottle bolts.  They break sometimes, but 
>> 19 out of 20 times they break, it was because the person holding the wrench 
>> over tightened them.  For low-stress bolt on applications, aluminum is 
>> great.  They are not free, but if you buy them in bulk, the pe

[RBW] Re: The way I design a build, and the first chapter

[Jason Fuller]

Richard - regarding the weight of dynamo, a friend did a pretty 
comprehensive gram-counting exercise on dynamo vs. battery lights and found 
that dynamo is about 170g heavier on average, if I'm remembering 
correctly.  It assumes though that you're carrying battery lights if you 
don't have dynamo, which is obviously not always the case unless you're a 
pack-rat like I am.  Battery lights themselves are heavier than dynamo 
lights, so that partially offsets the mass of the hub.  I love the Blue Lug 
Koma lights; minimal and not bright enough to light the way at night but 
super light (and can be unscrewed leaving only the ~2g base in place). This 
is what I'd do on a gram-counting build to maintain practicality. 

Cliffhangers are beautiful rims that build up so wonderfully but good gosh, 
they are heavy. Quill are significantly lighter while maintaining some 
extra width (not as much).  Crust makes some really light-for-their-width 
options but I've seen too many crack at the eyelets for me to buy them, 
honestly. A weight-sensitive fatter tire build for me would be Quill rims 
and RH 55mm knobby tires in Extralight casing, both 650B and 700c options 
available. 



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Re: [RBW] Re: Fall Photos 2024

[Drew Saunders]

Kim,

The part of Old La Honda between Skyline (Hwy 35) and La Honda (Hwy 84) is 
open after repairs. Since I hadn’t ridden it in 2 years, I didn’t notice 
which part was repaired, but the road was in fine shape. I hope to take a 
left and ride to the coast in 2025, but on Monday, I took a right on 84 and 
rode back towards home (Palo Alto). I’m not quite up for a 55+ mile hilly 
ride.

Drew

On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 12:12:41 PM UTC-8 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi Drew,
>
> Is La Honda open at the top of Skyline now from the massive landslides 
> that occurred last year from all of the rainfall ?
>
> If and when you ride out to the coast on Skyline to SR 84 from La Honda, I 
> hope that you enjoy it as much as I did many times back in the mid 70's. 
> One captive memory that I relish to this day was seeing the vibrant straw 
> flower growing in large crops fields near the coast.
>
> Kim Hetzel with a lot of cycling memories out of Palo Alto and over to the 
> coast and back.
>
> On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 4:51 PM Drew Saunders  wrote:
>
>> It's meteorologically Winter as of December 1st, but still solar Fall, 
>> and I'm too lazy to start a new thread, so I'll post here. Today's Day Off 
>> up and over Old La Honda Road. I haven't ridden on the "Back Side" since 
>> 2022, says Strava, so I decided to give it a try, slowly, and it was a good 
>> ride. I hope to ride this more, perhaps all the way to the coast and back, 
>> in 2025.
>> [image: IMG_7262.jpg]
>> [image: IMG_7265.jpg]
>>
>> On Monday, December 2, 2024 at 3:44:46 PM UTC-8 John Rinker wrote:
>>
>>> Another stunning photo, Jason! Yes, I'll happily follow you into the 
>>> dark forest and bring the Pilsner. However, it seems mead or barley wine 
>>> may be a more appropriate pairing. 
>>>
>>> See you in the Spring!
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Sunday, December 1, 2024 at 9:34:32 PM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 I am happy to play tour guide!  These spots are not super hard to get 
 to, but they're well outside the beaten path suffice to say. 

 Here is another photo - I spent about an hour in the vicinity of these 
 two massive trees, enjoying a pilsner I brought along specifically for 
 this 
 spot. Also - as evident, the Bombadil is back in action, which means the 
 Susie is but a frameset now again.  It's one or the other! 

 [image: PXL_20241201_214223342.jpg]

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[RBW] Motolite V-Brake Fit Issue - Toyo Atlantis (26")

[Garrett K]

Hi folks. I can't seem to get these v-brakes more vertical, not so splayed 
out. They work fine.

Known issue: Canti posts are very narrow on the fork (72mm!) and the 
Cliffhanger rims are very wide, 30mm. They don't seem to play nice. Any 
thoughts?

I'd rather not go with cantis and short pull levers. I love the Motolites. 

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[RBW] Re: The perfect combination tire

[Garth]

Schwalbe Big Bens, the Raceguard versions, are made in that size and fit 
the bill perfectly. About $45-50 retail USA, very resistant to flats, roll 
easy, have a modest tread to them light off-road use, and they are just 
plain fun to ride. Riv has sold these for a long time as they are a perfect 
tire for a balance of road feel, weight, cost and puncture resistance. 
On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 3:01:59 PM UTC-5 Nick Payne wrote:

> Schwalbe Marathon Almotion is available in 2.15" width. They roll out 
> pretty well and I haven't punctured one yet.
>
> https://www.schwalbe.com/en/Marathon-Almotion-11654055
>
> These are not the same as the ordinary Schwalbe Marathon tyres, which are 
> considerably heavier and slower.
>
> Nick Payne
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: 64cm Toyo/Waterford Rivendell Atlantis

[Glen]

I was told that the Waterford Atlantises (Atlanti?)  have mid fork eyelets 
and if I recall correctly they also have kickstand plates. 

My 64, which looks a lot like yours is definitely a Toyo with a mid 100s 
serial number.

Your seat cluster photo caused me to tun out to the garage and take a look 
at mine, I never noticed the "W" detail on the seat stay before wondered if 
that was a Waterford detail but I have it also. 

Good luck with the sale, very fair price 

glen 

On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 1:17:52 PM UTC-7 MisterMo wrote:

$2500.  If anyone can let me know how tell the difference between the 
Toyo's and the Waterford's, I'd love to know

I'm 6'2" and wear 34" inseam jeans and this fit me with a fistful of 
seatpost showing.  I'd call the condition 'average' as I've seen many that 
are worse and others better.  Grant calls it beausage.  Let's go with that!

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[RBW] Re: The way I design a build, and the first chapter

[Bill Lindsay]

In my original post I said: "The bolts gives (sic) the opportunity to do 
some gram-chasing."  

I got a $90 McMaster-Carr order in today, featuring 20 aluminum bolts and 8 
Titanium bolts.  By my count, I think 10 of those 28 bolts are going to end 
up on my CHG build.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, November 28, 2024 at 8:48:47 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> There's another thread on how I'm going to take a run at a <9kg Gallop 
> build.  I've started this thread to lay out exactly how I plan out all the 
> builds in my workshop.  I'll apologize in advance for the long narrative, 
> but hopefully the few of you who poke around on Thanksgiving Day are 
> looking for something to read...
>
> My freshman year of high school, in the Fall of 1983 (Troy High School, 
> Fullerton, CA) I took a typing class as an elective.  It made perfect sense 
> to me as preparation for taking a computer elective the following semester, 
> ha ha.  We had a project in typing class to type up a formatted outline, 
> following all the rules of categorization with the indents and headings 
> just so.  Each student had to come up with their own content for the 
> project and type it up.  In the Fall of 1983 I was a habitual cover to 
> cover reader of Bicycling and Winning! magazines.  I was obsessed with a 
> Bruce Gordon Chinook in one of those magazines, and I used the build list 
> for that bike as the content for my typing project.  From that moment 
> forward, every build fits into the same framework.  Every build is 
> comprised of five categories:
>
> 1. Frame set
> 2. Wheels
> 3. Drivetrain
> 4. Components
> 5. Accessories
>
> I throw every build into a spreadsheet in those five groups.  It serves to 
> organize my thoughts for every build, and as a checklist before a build 
> begins, and sometimes helps me pull the build together mentally to 
> anticipate the places where a nuanced build might have places where I could 
> paint myself into a corner.  Sometimes, but not always, I'll use columns 
> for each line to list the weight and/or the price of the stuff I'm pulling 
> together.  By filling out that spreadsheet exhaustively with best guesses I 
> can get into the ballpark on total price or total weight as a preview.  As 
> guesses become certainties, the numbers come into focus.  As I've gotten 
> older, most of my builds have targets that have nothing to do with price or 
> with weight: they are more about how exactly I want to experience cycling 
> on that particular machine.  The term I use to capture that relationship 
> between the build and its target is the "build concept".  
>
> So, let's start running through the build for my Gallop: Section 1 is the 
> Frame Set, which has three main parts
>
> 1. Frame set
> A. Frame 
> B. Fork
> C. Headset
>
> When I get my frame set, I'll remove the fork and weigh the fork with the 
> fork crown.  I'll pop out the headset cups and weigh the headset minus the 
> fork crown.  I'll remove the pre-installed bottom bracket and weigh the 
> bare frame.  Then I will remove every bolt that is screwed into the frame 
> and weigh that collection of bolts separately and re-weigh the completely 
> stripped down frame.  
>
> The Riv page for the FSA Headset claims it weighs 93.8 grams.  That's very 
> light. 100g is the typical placeholder for a headset when I'm planning 
> something out.  Over 100g and I could substitute something lighter.  Under 
> 100g is pretty good.  If it's really ~94g I'm keeping it.  
>
> The bolts gives the opportunity to do some gram-chasing.  Big picture, 
> bolts are always steel, there are ways to make those steel bolts lighter. 
>  They are:
>
> 1. Air is weightless.  Can you live without that bolt?  If so, consider 
> leaving it out.  That's free and totally weightless
> 2. Plastic is almost as light as air, and is very cheap.  Plastic metric 
> bolts in all sizes are made.  They weigh almost nothing and cost very 
> little.  If you don't need to bolt anything to that threaded hole, but want 
> to plug the hole, consider plastic and screw it in with just your fingers.  
> 3. Aluminum is 1/3 the weight of steel.  Virtually every high end mountain 
> bike has aluminum water bottle bolts.  They break sometimes, but 19 out of 
> 20 times they break, it was because the person holding the wrench over 
> tightened them.  For low-stress bolt on applications, aluminum is great. 
>  They are not free, but if you buy them in bulk, the per-bolt cost is not 
> that much.  If you bought them a while ago and they are just there on the 
> shelf, it feels like they are free.  
> 4. Titanium is half the weight of steel and nearly as strong.  Pretty much 
> anything steel on a bike could be done in Titanium.  It's a bit lighter and 
> is really expensive.  
> 5. Shorter steel bolts are lighter than longer steel bolts.  Sometimes 
> water bottle bolts are 16mm long when 10mm bolts still have 100% 
> engagement.  Swap 'em out if you have them layin

[RBW] Re: The perfect combination tire

[DTL]

I will second the Marathon Almotions - they are great. Roll great but all 
the puncture protection. 

On Wednesday, December 4, 2024 at 11:07:11 AM UTC+11 Garth wrote:

> Schwalbe Big Bens, the Raceguard versions, are made in that size and fit 
> the bill perfectly. About $45-50 retail USA, very resistant to flats, roll 
> easy, have a modest tread to them light off-road use, and they are just 
> plain fun to ride. Riv has sold these for a long time as they are a perfect 
> tire for a balance of road feel, weight, cost and puncture resistance. 
> On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 3:01:59 PM UTC-5 Nick Payne wrote:
>
>> Schwalbe Marathon Almotion is available in 2.15" width. They roll out 
>> pretty well and I haven't punctured one yet.
>>
>> https://www.schwalbe.com/en/Marathon-Almotion-11654055
>>
>> These are not the same as the ordinary Schwalbe Marathon tyres, which are 
>> considerably heavier and slower.
>>
>> Nick Payne
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: The perfect combination tire

[Will Boericke]

I like WTBs offerings.  I've used the Byway and now the Sendero in 47mm.  I 
would argue that knobs are not necessary on big tires unless you're riding 
in lots of mud.  I ride singletrack in file treads all the time, 
substituting volume for knobs.  I have a pair of Byways I'd let go for not 
much money.  They do have some sealant residue and a patched sidewall cut 
on the front.

Will


On Tuesday, December 3, 2024 at 10:55:58 AM UTC-5 Bruce Byker James wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm considering replacing the stock 45mm Kenda tires on my 650b Clem and 
> wondering what you all think would be a good combination of all these 
> factors:
>
> 2" - ish (probably not narrower)
> Decent traction on trails
> Low rolling resistance on roads
> Flat-resistant in some way (I ride on a lot of Philadelphia street glass 
> gravel)
> Not too expensive
>
> The one I'm most willing to skimp on is trail traction, because I'm 
> surprised by how well the relatively traction-less Kendas do off road, 
> maybe that's the geometry magic? At least a little more traction than 
> those, though.
>
> I'd love to hear if anyone has something like this used for sale, too!
>
> Thanks,
>
>  - Bruce
>

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[RBW] FS: One pair of 27.5/650B x 2.25 Schwalbe Racing Ralph tires

[Kim H.]

 I have a used pair of 27.5/650B x 2.25 Schwalbe Racing Ralph Evolution 
folding and tubeless tires for sale. The condition is very good.  I have 
had them on my Clem for six months with about 100 miles on them at best. I 
ran tubes with them, no slime. They have a lot of wear left on them. The 
reason why I am selling them is that I have moved on in using different 
tires. 

Pictures are here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZNscWxTckhuQVNp27

$70.00 or BEST OFFER, shipped in the CONUS.
Paypal payment please.

Kim Hetzel

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Re: [RBW] Re: The way I design a build, and the first chapter

[brendonoid]

*Jason Fuller:*
*Crust makes some really light-for-their-width options but I've seen too
many crack at the eyelets for me to buy them.*

Ah, you just saved me a lot of money. Thanks.
Well not really because Quills cost a lot more but you know what I mean...

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