Re: [RBW] When bad fasteners happen to good bikes

[Patrick Moore]

Great story, and well written, btw. The message is, in short: f it doesn't
fit, you're not forcing it hard enough.

Sorry, no story of my own comes to mind -- a mind fried by a particularly
obtuse resume.



On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:17 PM, LeRoy  wrote:

> The trail that recently led me to this group began when I was Googling
> information on repairing buggered braze-on threads. A post here entitled 
> *Stripped
> CLEM dropout braze-on* was absolutely spot-on. My problem was stripped
> threads on a couple of braze-on fittings on the rear drop out of my
> new-to-me Clem Smith Jr. This couldn't have been a better match; the
> collected wisdom in that post exactly addressed my questions and concerns.
> So, of course, I needed to join up.
>
> This preamble circles back to the point I suggest in the subject line: *When
> bad fasteners happen to good bikes*.
>
> While many on this list have owned their bikes since new, others have
> acquired them second- or third-hand, or some further multiple. Bikes that
> have passed through numerous sets of hands often suffer from a lesser level
> of care and feeding than a good bike deserves. What I came across on my
> third-hand Clem was not just a couple stripped threads -- I've committed
> that crime myself -- but true fastener innovation.
>
> Those of us whose thinking stays within the box typically use an M6
> fastener in an M6 threaded hole. It seems to work well enough. But
> innovative thinkers might consider the use of a vibration-resistant,
> serrated-flange, self-piercing sheet metal screw in that M6 threaded
> braze-on. While not an obvious solution, the advantage of this butchery is
> two-fold. The integrated serrated flange ideally secures the looped wire
> rod of the rear fender stay, while the self-piercing capability of the
> thread cuts its own path in the braze-on regardless of preexisting M6x1.0
> threads. Genius! This particular application deserves bonus points because
> the perpetrator went so far as to paint the offending fastener in a very
> close match to the Clem's green frame. It's not without a certain artistry.
>
> Apart from some understandable whining, my purpose in bringing up this
> topic is to see what kinds of creative destruction others have experienced.
> I'm throwing down the gauntlet. Can you top this?
>
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>



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**
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[RBW] Re: Is this an insane idea?

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I don't suppose the folks at Riv are much into pressing charges of 
blasphemy, but if they were, I'm guessing an internally geared hub would be 
higher on their list than spreading a steel frame (which, like an IGH, can 
be changed back.) :^)

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 11:18:33 PM UTC-4, iamkeith wrote:
>
> I feel the same way and am eventualy, absolutely,  buying a sturmey archer 
> IG hub for my QB.  Only question is whether it's the classic,

 

>  
>
> If you don't spread the dropouts, it's not blasphemy. 
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: PSA 56 Atlantis Portland Oregon

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Can you give a ride comparison impression between the Atlantis and the 
Ponderosa? Just curious, I had a Ponderosa but recently sold it before I 
got a chance to build it up (moving, downsizing, money).

On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 12:16:34 AM UTC-4, DarinM wrote:
>
> On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 5:00:29 PM UTC-7, Jonathan D. wrote: 
> > No relation. Just saw this on Craigslist.  Rivendell Atlantis 56cm 
> >  
> https://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/bik/d/rivendell-atlantis-56cm/6600752528.html56cm
>  
>
> Here it is: https://flic.kr/p/J8XJVt 
>
> I swapped everything over from my last drop bar MTB conversion except for 
> the 27.2 seatpost and traded the compact Suntour XC Pro’s for the Ritchey 
> Logics. First ride was today, love it. Working on a way to mount my Tara 
> rack. 
>
> Darin

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[RBW] Re: U locks and Pitlocks

[Ed Carolipio]

For me, I treat the Bordo 5700 folding lock as an alternative to a mid 
security, standard size U-lock, like the Kryptonite Evolution. 
Security-wise, the thicker/heavier Bordo 6000 series is more secure than 
the mid security standard U-lock and may be comparable to a med security 
mini U-lock, but still not as secure as a high security U lock (like the 
Kryptonite NYC).

One other advantage folding locks have over mini- or standard size U-locks 
is they're more flexible in terms of finding places to tie off a bike - 
closer to a cable lock in that sense - so that allows one to optimize 
security when picking where to park.

One other disadvantage of the folding lock (well, at least the Abus ones 
which I prefer) is they tend to be a lot pricier than a U-lock at the same 
security level.

--Ed C.

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 10:10:13 PM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> So much good advice here! Are these folding locks you discuss taking the 
> place of U Locks? I’ve never heard of them before today. Other than 
> portability, is a folding lock superior to the traditional U Lock?

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[RBW] Re: Is this an insane idea?

[iamkeith]

;-)

For now, maybe.  There was also a time when Grant wouldn't tig weld a frame.  I 
know he doesn't like IGHs because it's not immediately visible how they work 
from viewing the outside, but I also think that applies to the more elaborate 
ones.   Who as a kid didn't tear down and rebuild one or two 3 speeds with a 
100% success rate, and what piece of equipment better says "I'm biking for the 
joy, simlicity and pure functionality of it - weight and fashion be damned.  
Those hubs will outlast any derailleur and cogs.

Also, in all seriousness, how many times should someone cold set a steel frame 
before it significantly weakens it?  "Undoing" it sort of worries me, but maybe 
for no valid reason.

When they released the simple ones, there was a blug entry or email or 
something, that suggested limits and strategy and officially doscouraged some 
ideas regarding spreading.  Would be nice to find that.

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[RBW] Re: Is this an insane idea?

[Ron Mc]

I demonstrated you can build a bolt-on bike without altering an original 
frame (this time 60-y-o).  There are enough options out there to build this 
correctly, I would be against spreading the frame to 130mm, etc.  The 
original QB frame deserves that level of respect.  

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 6:57:18 AM UTC-5, iamkeith wrote:
>
> ;-)
>
> For now, maybe.  There was also a time when Grant wouldn't tig weld a 
> frame.  I know he doesn't like IGHs because it's not immediately visible 
> how they work from viewing the outside, but I also think that applies to 
> the more elaborate ones.   Who as a kid didn't tear down and rebuild one or 
> two 3 speeds with a 100% success rate, and what piece of equipment better 
> says "I'm biking for the joy, simlicity and pure functionality of it - 
> weight and fashion be damned.  Those hubs will outlast any derailleur and 
> cogs.
>
> Also, in all seriousness, how many times should someone cold set a steel 
> frame before it significantly weakens it?  "Undoing" it sort of worries me, 
> but maybe for no valid reason.
>
> When they released the simple ones, there was a blug entry or email or 
> something, that suggested limits and strategy and officially doscouraged 
> some ideas regarding spreading.  Would be nice to find that.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] When bad fasteners happen to good bikes

[hugh flynn]

E-gads man. There aughta be a law against that sort of butchery!

While many of the pearl-clutchers among us (and make no mistake, I can be a
bag-matching pearl-clutcher of the 1st order), reacted with abject horror
to zip ties for fender and rack attachment, this sort of “innovation” is
worse than carbon fiber brake cables.

The horror, the horror!

Is that a custom painted screw, or an off the shelf green ground wire?

Hugh “never in all my days” Flynn
Newburyport, MA

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 3:14 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Great story, and well written, btw. The message is, in short: f it doesn't
> fit, you're not forcing it hard enough.
>
> Sorry, no story of my own comes to mind -- a mind fried by a particularly
> obtuse resume.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:17 PM, LeRoy  wrote:
>
>> The trail that recently led me to this group began when I was Googling
>> information on repairing buggered braze-on threads. A post here entitled 
>> *Stripped
>> CLEM dropout braze-on* was absolutely spot-on. My problem was stripped
>> threads on a couple of braze-on fittings on the rear drop out of my
>> new-to-me Clem Smith Jr. This couldn't have been a better match; the
>> collected wisdom in that post exactly addressed my questions and concerns.
>> So, of course, I needed to join up.
>>
>> This preamble circles back to the point I suggest in the subject line: *When
>> bad fasteners happen to good bikes*.
>>
>> While many on this list have owned their bikes since new, others have
>> acquired them second- or third-hand, or some further multiple. Bikes that
>> have passed through numerous sets of hands often suffer from a lesser level
>> of care and feeding than a good bike deserves. What I came across on my
>> third-hand Clem was not just a couple stripped threads -- I've committed
>> that crime myself -- but true fastener innovation.
>>
>> Those of us whose thinking stays within the box typically use an M6
>> fastener in an M6 threaded hole. It seems to work well enough. But
>> innovative thinkers might consider the use of a vibration-resistant,
>> serrated-flange, self-piercing sheet metal screw in that M6 threaded
>> braze-on. While not an obvious solution, the advantage of this butchery is
>> two-fold. The integrated serrated flange ideally secures the looped wire
>> rod of the rear fender stay, while the self-piercing capability of the
>> thread cuts its own path in the braze-on regardless of preexisting M6x1.0
>> threads. Genius! This particular application deserves bonus points because
>> the perpetrator went so far as to paint the offending fastener in a very
>> close match to the Clem's green frame. It's not without a certain artistry.
>>
>> Apart from some understandable whining, my purpose in bringing up this
>> topic is to see what kinds of creative destruction others have experienced.
>> I'm throwing down the gauntlet. Can you top this?
>>
>> --
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
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> Alburquerque, New Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
> **
> **
> *Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?*
>
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[RBW] Re: U locks and Pitlocks

[Tom Wyland]

Since it has not yet been mentioned, I'll suggest getting a Frame Lock 

 
that bolts to the mounts on the underside of your seat stay on the Clem.  
It locks the rear wheel to the bike and prevents it from being ridden off. 
I have the type that accepts a plug-in chain 

 
or cable. This type of lock will not secure your front wheel but is fairly 
hard to defeat. These types of locks are also uncommon in the US which 
helps because bike snatchers don't know how to break them.

PM me if you'd like more details, as there are many different styles of 
these locks.  No, I don't sell them but I have one on my (non-clem) town 
bike.

 

 

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Re: [RBW] When bad fasteners happen to good bikes

[Lum Gim Fong]

You can still use a regular screw with washers on both sides of braze on and a 
nut on the end-if you can still get the screw through the hole.

Congrats on finding this group. This is a fun group and a great place to learn 
about your Rivendell.

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[RBW] Re: When bad fasteners happen to good bikes

[Virgil Staphbeard]

Correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't owned a Clem, but aren't typical 
rack braze-ons M5?

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 1:22:13 AM UTC-4, LeRoy wrote:
>
> The trail that recently led me to this group began when I was Googling 
> information on repairing buggered braze-on threads. A post here entitled 
> *Stripped 
> CLEM dropout braze-on* was absolutely spot-on. My problem was stripped 
> threads on a couple of braze-on fittings on the rear drop out of my 
> new-to-me Clem Smith Jr. This couldn't have been a better match; the 
> collected wisdom in that post exactly addressed my questions and concerns. 
> So, of course, I needed to join up. 
>
> This preamble circles back to the point I suggest in the subject line: *When 
> bad fasteners happen to good bikes*.
>
> While many on this list have owned their bikes since new, others have 
> acquired them second- or third-hand, or some further multiple. Bikes that 
> have passed through numerous sets of hands often suffer from a lesser level 
> of care and feeding than a good bike deserves. What I came across on my 
> third-hand Clem was not just a couple stripped threads -- I've committed 
> that crime myself -- but true fastener innovation.
>
> Those of us whose thinking stays within the box typically use an M6 
> fastener in an M6 threaded hole. It seems to work well enough. But 
> innovative thinkers might consider the use of a vibration-resistant, 
> serrated-flange, self-piercing sheet metal screw in that M6 threaded 
> braze-on. While not an obvious solution, the advantage of this butchery is 
> two-fold. The integrated serrated flange ideally secures the looped wire 
> rod of the rear fender stay, while the self-piercing capability of the 
> thread cuts its own path in the braze-on regardless of preexisting M6x1.0 
> threads. Genius! This particular application deserves bonus points because 
> the perpetrator went so far as to paint the offending fastener in a very 
> close match to the Clem's green frame. It's not without a certain artistry.
>
> Apart from some understandable whining, my purpose in bringing up this 
> topic is to see what kinds of creative destruction others have experienced. 
> I'm throwing down the gauntlet. Can you top this?
>

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Re: [RBW] When bad fasteners happen to good bikes

[Lum Gim Fong]

Serrated part Looks like a brake bolt washer on that screw.

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Re: [RBW] When bad fasteners happen to good bikes

[Virgil Staphbeard]

Check OP's second photo as you're describing how the rack is mounted. 

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 9:12:23 AM UTC-4, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> You can still use a regular screw with washers on both sides of braze on 
> and a nut on the end-if you can still get the screw through the hole.
>
> Congrats on finding this group. This is a fun group and a great place to 
> learn about your Rivendell.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] When bad fasteners happen to good bikes

[Lum Gim Fong]

PS- Some people on this forum have raised the level of hacks on this forum to 
“haqués”.

IIRC, I have read on this forum about people cold-setting their chainstays so 
they can fit the hub they wanted on the rear wheel. Also people doing surgery 
on their frames so they can fit the tire width or chain line line they wanted 
if I recall correctly. I think Patrick Moore is guilty of this. He can chime in 
once his brain recovers.

Recently another Patrick cut the dropouts off of his perfectly good 
Hunquapiller  to make it an even gooder therapeutic single speed which 
apparently worked out great.

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[RBW] Low-Normal rear derailleurs... R.I.P.?

[d2mini]

I just finished up my new Sam build and bought a new RD for it without even 
thinking about it. Now shifting it with my bar-ends feels all wrong since 
it's opposite of what I was used to.
Previously with my shimano XT, I would pull up on the lever as I gained 
speed on the flats, and if I came to a hill it was an easy push down to 
drop into easier gears.
Now its the opposite and just feels WRONG! lol

They don't specify, but the deore model on the Riv site is Top-Normal if 
I'm not mistaken. 
Google isn't turning up much but a bunch of threads from like 5 years ago 
about people already having trouble finding Low-Normal or Rapid Rise RD's.
I did find a NOS one on ebay. 

So is it just me? Anyone else with this issue? Do I just need to get over 
it? lol
Or if anyone can point me towards a model that's still available, I'd 
appreciate it.

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[RBW] Re: Low-Normal rear derailleurs... R.I.P.?

[Ron Mc]

way back, SunTour V was the opposite - both FD and RD were pull for taller 
gearing, push for lower.  So when I replaced that FD with Shimano 600, I 
first had the same reaction in reverse.  If it makes you feel any better, 
after 40 years, I can't remember why.  

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 8:39:45 AM UTC-5, d2mini wrote:
>
> I just finished up my new Sam build and bought a new RD for it without 
> even thinking about it. Now shifting it with my bar-ends feels all wrong 
> since it's opposite of what I was used to.
> Previously with my shimano XT, I would pull up on the lever as I gained 
> speed on the flats, and if I came to a hill it was an easy push down to 
> drop into easier gears.
> Now its the opposite and just feels WRONG! lol
>
> They don't specify, but the deore model on the Riv site is Top-Normal if 
> I'm not mistaken. 
> Google isn't turning up much but a bunch of threads from like 5 years ago 
> about people already having trouble finding Low-Normal or Rapid Rise RD's.
> I did find a NOS one on ebay. 
>
> So is it just me? Anyone else with this issue? Do I just need to get over 
> it? lol
> Or if anyone can point me towards a model that's still available, I'd 
> appreciate it.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: U locks and Pitlocks

[Doug Bloch]

I use a Kryptonite U-Lock and cable as others describe. The cable is more of a 
visual deterrent as I have pitlocks. They give me a lot of peace of mind.

Doug
Alameda CA USA

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[RBW] Re: Low-Normal rear derailleurs... R.I.P.?

[Ron Mc]

and to show you just how much I don't remember, got it backwards - both 
levers were pull for lower gearing, push for taller.  

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 8:47:40 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> way back, SunTour V was the opposite - both FD and RD were pull for taller 
> gearing, push for lower.  So when I replaced that FD with Shimano 600, I 
> first had the same reaction in reverse.  If it makes you feel any better, 
> after 40 years, I can't remember why.  
>

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[RBW] Re: First Riv: 26” Toyo Atlantis

[Kainalu V.]

Regarding the braze-on extenders you're making, will sway be an issue? Maybe 
it's minimal enough not to notice. Maybe you've got that covered via shims 
against the fork leg.
Regardless, have a great trip.
-Kai 
BKNY 

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Re: [RBW] Low-Normal rear derailleurs... R.I.P.?

[Tim Gavin]

I don't see any Rapid Rise RDs still in production.  Seems like Shimano
abandoned that "feature".

The 77x series of Shimano XT rear derailleurs were very good, and the
RD-M770 version was Rapid Rise/Low-Normal.  Keep an eye out for a NOS or
lightly used one?  It's a 9-speed RD but it indexes 7/8/9/10 speeds,
controlled by the shifters.

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 8:39 AM, d2mini  wrote:

> I just finished up my new Sam build and bought a new RD for it without
> even thinking about it. Now shifting it with my bar-ends feels all wrong
> since it's opposite of what I was used to.
> Previously with my shimano XT, I would pull up on the lever as I gained
> speed on the flats, and if I came to a hill it was an easy push down to
> drop into easier gears.
> Now its the opposite and just feels WRONG! lol
>
> They don't specify, but the deore model on the Riv site is Top-Normal if
> I'm not mistaken.
> Google isn't turning up much but a bunch of threads from like 5 years ago
> about people already having trouble finding Low-Normal or Rapid Rise RD's.
> I did find a NOS one on ebay.
>
> So is it just me? Anyone else with this issue? Do I just need to get over
> it? lol
> Or if anyone can point me towards a model that's still available, I'd
> appreciate it.
>
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[RBW] Re: U locks and Pitlocks

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Leah,
Quite a few recommendations for ABUS Bordo folding locks-- so here's my 
counterpoint. I have two Bordo folding locks (sold as a pair with matching 
keys). One reason I got them was compact fold and carrier, which can be 
affixed to water bottle mount. 

In practice, they are not very easy to use. The pieces swivel on one axis 
and it can be very difficult to get them in the proper orientation to affix 
to a pole or other object. The total length of the Bordo lock is 
misleading, because the pieces are ~6" long and solid. By contrast, a cable 
lock is very easy to wrap around many objects (and your bike).

Another downside is once Bordo is locked around bike, it can flop around. 
This is potentially a problem as your bike can move, possibly falling and 
getting damaged. Yikes. To avert that, I've used Irish straps around the 
bike rack+bike to keep it from falling.

I find a small U-lock (e.g., Kryptonite Mini-U) to be much easier to use. 
It is small-- which means lighter, easier to carry, and more difficult to 
defeat via leverage break. The small size also means that my bike stays 
upright-- I lock via Sheldon Brown-method or at the headtube. (My bike has 
pitlocks, so I'm not worried about the wheels or seatpost.)

When I'm riding with my kids, I usually lock my bike with the small U-lock. 
I have a separate cable that I loop around their bikes. I also add a cable 
lock through the main triangle of all the bikes. (Admittedly it's to 
prevent grab and go. Otherwise fairly easy to defeat a cable.)

Good luck!
shoji
Arlington MA

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[RBW] Re: Is this an insane idea?

[Matt B.]

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 8:52:58 AM UTC-4, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> I demonstrated you can build a bolt-on bike without altering an original 
> frame (this time 60-y-o).  There are enough options out there to build this 
> correctly, I would be against spreading the frame to 130mm, etc.  The 
> original QB frame deserves that level of respect.  
>


Agreed! One of the nice things about the QB or any frame with 120mm rear 
width is that you typically run a narrow BB, and/or can run fairly low-Q 
cranks with almost zero chances of grazing your heels on the chainstays.  I 
am using the stock QB crank with digital shifting (and a Dos Eno 
freewheel). 

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[RBW] Re: FS: Bruce Gordon Cantilever Brakes

[jandrews]

The brake set has been sold to a BG bike owner in CT.
Thank you 
Jason

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[RBW] PSA: all rounder near chicago

[Matt Beecher]

There is a small all rounder on Craigslist near Chicago. The seller told me the 
seat tube is about 21”. 

Other than contacting to ask, I have no affiliation. 

Cheers, 
Matt in Oswego, but currently near madison. 

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[RBW] Re: U locks and Pitlocks

[Vincent Tamer]

It's clear that using a combination of locks (u lock and chain) is great 
for a extended lock up, but what about a quick lock up? Say, under 30 
minutes? Do you still do the whole thing, or does anyone just go with a 
smaller lock? 

I'm looking for something for a quick lockup in a decent area. I like the 
idea of a lock that is very easy to deploy. A u lock with cable can take 
some time with Clem's long chain stays.

Any advice?

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 2:13:37 PM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Hi All, 
>
> Every year I drive across the country from Nevada to Minnesota to spend a 
> month of the summer among family. I've always done it with my bikes on the 
> hitch-mounted rack, secured with a couple of cable locks. I've never had a 
> u lock or pit locks as I live in a low-risk area and ride to low-risk 
> areas, rarely needing to park my bike or leave it out of sight. I'm poor in 
> knowledge of security for bikes, I'm afraid. And with TBBITW (The Best Bike 
> in the World) in tow, I'm fearful about losing it. I've been operating 
> under the belief that Minnesota Nice reigns, but times have changed, I 
> guess!
>
> My sister and brother in law recently moved to Minneapolis, and his bike 
> was stolen from his yard (his fault for forgetting it out there). This is 
> the reason why there's a grilver Clem L arriving at his local bike shop for 
> assembly tomorrow. Today, I got a frantic call from my sister. They have a 
> married pair of doctors (paradox? haha) visiting them from out east, and 
> knowing that MN is prime bike country, they brought their bikes. While 
> visiting the Swedish museum in Duluth, they parked their bikes at the rack 
> in front of the museum entrance and the doctors secured their bikes with 
> cable locks. They were away only briefly, and when they emerged, a museum 
> employee was wheeling away Dan's bike. She had seen that the cable lock was 
> cut, and she was astute enough to realize what must have happened and she 
> was rescuing it. Christine's $1300 brand new bike had already been cut 
> loose and taken. My sister's Birea (sp) was u-locked and thus undisturbed.
>
> You might imagine I have some anxiety over this, as we have lots of bike 
> adventures planned for our stay next month. I've started looking at old 
> threads here, but the Abus u locks mentioned aren't the current ones being 
> sold, or the ones referenced aren't in stock. If someone out there has 
> recently been in the market for a new u-lock, would you mind posting here? 
> If I could lock two bikes together with one u lock, that would be even 
> better. I'll have 4 bikes - a Betz, a Clem H, a Specialized Hotrock at 20 
> inches, and a little Islabike. Do you think I need pit locks for our Brooks 
> saddles? Do I need them for the wheels if we have front and rear racks on 
> the Rivs? How long should the locks be? I've seen mini, but I think that 
> might limit how I can park. I have a huge front basket, so that complicates 
> parking anyway.
>
> I'm most grateful for the wisdom shared here!
>
>

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[RBW] Re: U locks and Pitlocks

[Sean Kline]

In addition to a U-lock, I have Pitlock skewers on all wheels of three bikes 
and Pitlock nuts on seaposts and a small Pitlock nut inside all seat Allen 
bolts. All of this is meant to deter and slow down thieves for the 30-60 
minutes I may let a bike out of my sight, rather than absolutely prevent theft 
if someone is determined. Last week, I cycled by someone selling a 
battery-powered saw on the street. My understanding is it would take a thief 
minutes to go through a u-lock with that.

I’d worry as much about where the bikes are stored overnight as where they’re 
locked throughout the day. In the Bay Area (and I imagine many places), more 
bikes are stolen from shared and private garages than from poles and bike racks 
during the day. So, locking bikes wherever they are inside overnight is prudent.

I grew up in the Twin Cities and go back Summers to visit family and ride the 
amazing bike infrastructure. The TCs are not the Bay Area, but why take a 
chance with your beloved bike? I have given up driving. So, my bike is more 
important to me than ever. 

Enjoy the land of nice!

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[RBW] Re: U locks and Pitlocks

[blakcloud]

Inside my condo bike locker which is locked with a padlock and Kryptonite 
Evolution mini. There are two Rivendells and they both get;

   - 2 Kryptonite New York Fahgettaboudit Mini
   - 1 Kryptonite Evolution Mini
   - 1 Krypto Cable
   - Pitlocks for both wheels and seat post.
   - Bicycle chain to lock Brooks saddle to bike. 
   

Out in the wild, where I don't leave my bike for extended periods.

   - Pitlocks as described above and seat chain
   - Kryptonite Evolution. 
   - New York Fahgettaboudit Mini

If it is for short periods, less than an hour, I will omit one U lock. 

If it is a super high risk area, I will bring my Brompton and carry the 
bike with me. This is the safest way to do it. 

At my work place same as home, the full gamut. I keep the locks at my work 
place for convenience.

Currently I own 11 Kryptonite U locks, 5 Krypto cables, 2 Abus Bordo 6500 
locks.

I just purchased the Abus Bordos for the two Bromptons that we are planning 
to take to Amsterdam next week. You can't always bring your Brompton with 
you so I thought this would be the best lock for that style of bike. You 
can also daisy chain these locks together to lock multiple bikes. 

Some would say, overkill but after having three high end bikes stolen over 
the years by using one Kryptonite, I decided to up the ante and make my 
bike the most difficult to steal. 

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[RBW] Re: U locks and Pitlocks

[William!]

Here are some tips for streamlining locking if you lock your bike often.

1. Go with pitlocks instead of a cable. Will save you a bunch of time and it’s 
less to carry. Get the 3 piece set with skewers for the front and rear plus a 
replacement for the seatpost binder bolt. 

2. If you haven’t already, get a dynamo lighting setup! The lights stay on the 
bike, one less thing to remove or forget to remove when you lock. Secure them 
with security type bolts (available at most hardware stores for cheap) or just 
shove some wax in the holes to prevent casual theft.

3. If you leave a saddle bag on your bike, put a bunch of zipties through it to 
the rack. It’s more involved, but you can also use an old chain wrapped in a 
side stitched waxed canvas tube. Consider a basket up front so you can keep a 
bag there that removes easily and contains your tool kit and what not.

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[RBW] Re: Is this an insane idea?

[Joe Bernard]

I had a chat with Grant a few months ago about IGH which was mostly two guys 
agreeing with each other, so take that for what it's worth. I don't hate 'em 
and I don't think he does, either; my complaint is the "no maintenance" 
marketing-speak that proponents invariably present as a feature over a cassette 
and derailer. I don't know what the heck is going on inside that hub, and 
wouldn't have the first clue how to fix it if it crunched to a halt out on the 
road. I can see and get to the workings of a cassette and derailer, and when a 
derailer gets wonky I can either adjust the shifting or leave it on one cog and 
ride home. There's also the matter of getting an IGH out of the frame to fix a 
flat. 

In summary: Heavy, not no maintenance, harder to remove a wheel on the road. 
I've never been convinced an IGH solves a problem caused by a cassette and 
derailer, which I think is where GP is coming from on the issue. 

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[RBW] PSA: all rounder near chicago

[Joe Bernard]

That's a neat bike. The build is like a walk through Reader No. 1..so much 
Suntour! Did the seller show any interest in shipping?

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[RBW] Re: FS: Bruce Gordon Cantilever Brakes

[Ron Mc]

*whew* - can't beat style improvement on Paul mechanism

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 9:35:49 AM UTC-5, jandrews wrote:
>
> The brake set has been sold to a BG bike owner in CT.
> Thank you 
> Jason

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Re: [RBW] Re: Is this an insane idea?

[Eric Norris]

Joe:

I have IGH on two bikes—both are Sturmey Archer’s S3X fixed-gear three-speed, 
modified with a spin-on single speed freewheel to become more like a standard 
hub (coasting). This setup is stronger and simpler than a standard three-speed, 
because there are no pawls inside the hub (they are usually what breaks). All 
of the pawls are outside in a freewheel that can be easily replaced or 
repaired. I use White Industeries’ “Eno” freewheel and have never had any 
problems.

I did have a Sturdy Archer hub once that developed a mechanical problem, but 
that was limited to not having a couple of the gears. Yes, it was a pain having 
to send the wheel back to them (Napa, CA) for repair.

In support of IGHs, I would point out that if any of us were out in the middle 
of nowhere and a brifter decided to die, we would be basically out of luck. 
Back in the day, you could repair Campy Ergo levers, but even then you needed a 
workbench and tools.

IGHs make for a cleaner-looking bike without all the dangly derailleur bits, 
they’re (mostly) immune to weather, and they force you to be a stronger rider. 

--Eric N
campyonly...@me.com
www.CampyOnly.com
Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
@Campyonlyguy


> On Jun 7, 2018, at 8:26 AM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
> I had a chat with Grant a few months ago about IGH which was mostly two guys 
> agreeing with each other, so take that for what it's worth. I don't hate 'em 
> and I don't think he does, either; my complaint is the "no maintenance" 
> marketing-speak that proponents invariably present as a feature over a 
> cassette and derailer. I don't know what the heck is going on inside that 
> hub, and wouldn't have the first clue how to fix it if it crunched to a halt 
> out on the road. I can see and get to the workings of a cassette and 
> derailer, and when a derailer gets wonky I can either adjust the shifting or 
> leave it on one cog and ride home. There's also the matter of getting an IGH 
> out of the frame to fix a flat. 
> 
> In summary: Heavy, not no maintenance, harder to remove a wheel on the road. 
> I've never been convinced an IGH solves a problem caused by a cassette and 
> derailer, which I think is where GP is coming from on the issue. 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Is this an insane idea?

[Ron Mc]

sounds neat Eric, can you offer photos?  

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 10:56:25 AM UTC-5, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Joe:
>
> I have IGH on two bikes—both are Sturmey Archer’s S3X fixed-gear 
> three-speed, modified with a spin-on single speed freewheel to become more 
> like a standard hub (coasting). This setup is stronger and simpler than a 
> standard three-speed, because there are no pawls inside the hub (they are 
> usually what breaks). All of the pawls are outside in a freewheel that can 
> be easily replaced or repaired. I use White Industeries’ “Eno” freewheel 
> and have never had any problems.
>
> I did have a Sturdy Archer hub once that developed a mechanical problem, 
> but that was limited to not having a couple of the gears. Yes, it was a 
> pain having to send the wheel back to them (Napa, CA) for repair.
>
> In support of IGHs, I would point out that if any of us were out in the 
> middle of nowhere and a brifter decided to die, we would be basically out 
> of luck. Back in the day, you could repair Campy Ergo levers, but even then 
> you needed a workbench and tools.
>
> IGHs make for a cleaner-looking bike without all the dangly derailleur 
> bits, they’re (mostly) immune to weather, and they force you to be a 
> stronger rider. 
>
> --Eric N
> campyo...@me.com 
> www.CampyOnly.com
> Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
> @Campyonlyguy
>
>
> On Jun 7, 2018, at 8:26 AM, Joe Bernard > 
> wrote:
>
> I had a chat with Grant a few months ago about IGH which was mostly two 
> guys agreeing with each other, so take that for what it's worth. I don't 
> hate 'em and I don't think he does, either; my complaint is the "no 
> maintenance" marketing-speak that proponents invariably present as a 
> feature over a cassette and derailer. I don't know what the heck is going 
> on inside that hub, and wouldn't have the first clue how to fix it if it 
> crunched to a halt out on the road. I can see and get to the workings of a 
> cassette and derailer, and when a derailer gets wonky I can either adjust 
> the shifting or leave it on one cog and ride home. There's also the matter 
> of getting an IGH out of the frame to fix a flat. 
>
> In summary: Heavy, not no maintenance, harder to remove a wheel on the 
> road. I've never been convinced an IGH solves a problem caused by a 
> cassette and derailer, which I think is where GP is coming from on the 
> issue. 
>
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>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Is this an insane idea?

[Joe Bernard]

Yes, the look and chainline of IGH are a definite benefit. I've used them on a 
few bikes and have one coaster-brake single now. They have their place in the 
bike world, I just don't buy some of the "it's simple and maintenance free" 
reasons for having them that are often promoted. 

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[RBW] Re: Is this an insane idea?

[iamkeith]

I hear you on all that, Joe, and basically agree as well.  And I don't mean 
to turn this into a IGH debate - but in this case it's vaguely relevant to 
the discussion at hand about how best to add gears to a QB/SO.  The things 
that I personally like about IGHs happen to be the same things that appeal 
to me about single speed bikes in the first place:

-  Cleaner aesthetics.
-  No noisy chain slap.
-  No chain suck, ever.
-  No derailleurs to get ripped off or twisted into the spokes by branches, 
sagebrush, etc.  
("Yes," this happens to me once every couple of years, and "no," I'm not a 
reckless bro-brah rider who thinks he's entitled to ride off established 
trails at breakneck speed.)
-  No bent derailleur hangers to have to re-align
-  Less affected by ice buildup
-  Barely affected by mud
-  One single adjustment (cable length) necessary for most IGHs versus that 
adjustment plus three more (upper limit, lower limit, B-screw) for a rear 
derailleur, plus three MORE if you add a front derailleur.
-  More durable components which, if they are maintained, will outlast any 
derailleur setup.

Lack of maintenance has never been a rationale for me.   Only the EASE of 
maintenance.

Regarding ease of wheel removal:  I have a rohloff-equipped snow bike, with 
a quick release skewer and the external gear box attached with a 
thumbscrew.  It is easier and quicker to remove and install than any 
derailleur bike I own.   On the other hand, I have to use a wrench every 
time i remove or install the wheel on the quickbeam anyway, and then 
re-center the wheel by eye.  I don't see how an IGH is different.   Except 
that the wheel always goes back in the exact same spot which just gives you 
the bonus of a good fender-line.

Regarding the common "what if it malfunctions while I'm on a tour" 
argument:  I kind of see that as similar to the threaded vs threadless 
headset thing, where people say the later is better because they can make 
adjustments on the side of the trail with a single hex wrench.   How often 
is that actually necessary in real life?!


On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 9:26:37 AM UTC-6, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I had a chat with Grant a few months ago about IGH which was mostly two 
> guys agreeing with each other, so take that for what it's worth. I don't 
> hate 'em and I don't think he does, either; my complaint is the "no 
> maintenance" marketing-speak that proponents invariably present as a 
> feature over a cassette and derailer. I don't know what the heck is going 
> on inside that hub, and wouldn't have the first clue how to fix it if it 
> crunched to a halt out on the road. I can see and get to the workings of a 
> cassette and derailer, and when a derailer gets wonky I can either adjust 
> the shifting or leave it on one cog and ride home. There's also the matter 
> of getting an IGH out of the frame to fix a flat. 
>
> In summary: Heavy, not no maintenance, harder to remove a wheel on the 
> road. I've never been convinced an IGH solves a problem caused by a 
> cassette and derailer, which I think is where GP is coming from on the 
> issue. 
>

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[RBW] Re: When bad fasteners happen to good bikes

[Grant @ Rivendell]

For the record, we've never seen a funky threading on a Clem-or-other 
dropout, but users are capable of messing them up. Clem is especially 
tolerant, tho, because the upper dropout mount is M6 (for the rack), and if 
you mount the rack, as we suggest, on the lower seat stay braze-on (a true 
braze-on that is actually brazed on), you still have at least two options 
for the fenders. If a previous owner munged the threads on the M6 upper, 
you could use an M5 and a nut on that one, or just go one step down and use 
an M5 bolt on the intended fender mount. Current CLEMs go ultrafar with yet 
a third M-5 hole between the two in the main body of the dropout. We put a 
hole there for fun, since it was low stress, and then at the last second 
said, "tape it M5, please," and it was done. So, there are a total of four 
tapped possibilities, two each M5, M6, on each side of the frame down there 
on or near the dropouts, making Clem the least likely frame ever made, I 
think, to foil your efforts to mount what you want down there---because 
there's always an option.

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 10:22:13 PM UTC-7, LeRoy wrote:
>
> The trail that recently led me to this group began when I was Googling 
> information on repairing buggered braze-on threads. A post here entitled 
> *Stripped 
> CLEM dropout braze-on* was absolutely spot-on. My problem was stripped 
> threads on a couple of braze-on fittings on the rear drop out of my 
> new-to-me Clem Smith Jr. This couldn't have been a better match; the 
> collected wisdom in that post exactly addressed my questions and concerns. 
> So, of course, I needed to join up. 
>
> This preamble circles back to the point I suggest in the subject line: *When 
> bad fasteners happen to good bikes*.
>
> While many on this list have owned their bikes since new, others have 
> acquired them second- or third-hand, or some further multiple. Bikes that 
> have passed through numerous sets of hands often suffer from a lesser level 
> of care and feeding than a good bike deserves. What I came across on my 
> third-hand Clem was not just a couple stripped threads -- I've committed 
> that crime myself -- but true fastener innovation.
>
> Those of us whose thinking stays within the box typically use an M6 
> fastener in an M6 threaded hole. It seems to work well enough. But 
> innovative thinkers might consider the use of a vibration-resistant, 
> serrated-flange, self-piercing sheet metal screw in that M6 threaded 
> braze-on. While not an obvious solution, the advantage of this butchery is 
> two-fold. The integrated serrated flange ideally secures the looped wire 
> rod of the rear fender stay, while the self-piercing capability of the 
> thread cuts its own path in the braze-on regardless of preexisting M6x1.0 
> threads. Genius! This particular application deserves bonus points because 
> the perpetrator went so far as to paint the offending fastener in a very 
> close match to the Clem's green frame. It's not without a certain artistry.
>
> Apart from some understandable whining, my purpose in bringing up this 
> topic is to see what kinds of creative destruction others have experienced. 
> I'm throwing down the gauntlet. Can you top this?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Is this an insane idea?

[iamkeith]

Eric, you posted while i was typing much of the same.   Earlier in the 
thread, I linked to pictures of your Quickbeam with the 8-speed hub.  Is 
that the one that gave you trouble?

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 9:56:25 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Joe:
>
> I have IGH on two bikes—both are Sturmey Archer’s S3X fixed-gear 
> three-speed, modified with a spin-on single speed freewheel to become more 
> like a standard hub (coasting). This setup is stronger and simpler than a 
> standard three-speed, because there are no pawls inside the hub (they are 
> usually what breaks). All of the pawls are outside in a freewheel that can 
> be easily replaced or repaired. I use White Industeries’ “Eno” freewheel 
> and have never had any problems.
>
> I did have a Sturdy Archer hub once that developed a mechanical problem, 
> but that was limited to not having a couple of the gears. Yes, it was a 
> pain having to send the wheel back to them (Napa, CA) for repair.
>
> In support of IGHs, I would point out that if any of us were out in the 
> middle of nowhere and a brifter decided to die, we would be basically out 
> of luck. Back in the day, you could repair Campy Ergo levers, but even then 
> you needed a workbench and tools.
>
> IGHs make for a cleaner-looking bike without all the dangly derailleur 
> bits, they’re (mostly) immune to weather, and they force you to be a 
> stronger rider. 
>
> --Eric N
> campyo...@me.com 
> www.CampyOnly.com
> Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
> @Campyonlyguy
>
>
> On Jun 7, 2018, at 8:26 AM, Joe Bernard > 
> wrote:
>
> I had a chat with Grant a few months ago about IGH which was mostly two 
> guys agreeing with each other, so take that for what it's worth. I don't 
> hate 'em and I don't think he does, either; my complaint is the "no 
> maintenance" marketing-speak that proponents invariably present as a 
> feature over a cassette and derailer. I don't know what the heck is going 
> on inside that hub, and wouldn't have the first clue how to fix it if it 
> crunched to a halt out on the road. I can see and get to the workings of a 
> cassette and derailer, and when a derailer gets wonky I can either adjust 
> the shifting or leave it on one cog and ride home. There's also the matter 
> of getting an IGH out of the frame to fix a flat. 
>
> In summary: Heavy, not no maintenance, harder to remove a wheel on the 
> road. I've never been convinced an IGH solves a problem caused by a 
> cassette and derailer, which I think is where GP is coming from on the 
> issue. 
>
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[RBW] Re: Is this an insane idea?

[Joe Bernard]

Hehe, any arguments against IGH go out the window when it comes to Rohloff. I 
don't need it, can't afford it, but I want one anyway! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Is this an insane idea?

[iamkeith]

Eric - sorry for repetition.  I was typing while you posted much of the 
same comments.

Earlier in the thread, I linked to pictures of your 8 speed Quickbeam.  Is 
that the one that gave you trouble?

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 9:56:25 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Joe:
>
> I have IGH on two bikes—both are Sturmey Archer’s S3X fixed-gear 
> three-speed, modified with a spin-on single speed freewheel to become more 
> like a standard hub (coasting). This setup is stronger and simpler than a 
> standard three-speed, because there are no pawls inside the hub (they are 
> usually what breaks). All of the pawls are outside in a freewheel that can 
> be easily replaced or repaired. I use White Industeries’ “Eno” freewheel 
> and have never had any problems.
>
> I did have a Sturdy Archer hub once that developed a mechanical problem, 
> but that was limited to not having a couple of the gears. Yes, it was a 
> pain having to send the wheel back to them (Napa, CA) for repair.
>
> In support of IGHs, I would point out that if any of us were out in the 
> middle of nowhere and a brifter decided to die, we would be basically out 
> of luck. Back in the day, you could repair Campy Ergo levers, but even then 
> you needed a workbench and tools.
>
> IGHs make for a cleaner-looking bike without all the dangly derailleur 
> bits, they’re (mostly) immune to weather, and they force you to be a 
> stronger rider. 
>
> --Eric N
> campyo...@me.com 
> www.CampyOnly.com
> Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
> @Campyonlyguy
>
>
> On Jun 7, 2018, at 8:26 AM, Joe Bernard > 
> wrote:
>
> I had a chat with Grant a few months ago about IGH which was mostly two 
> guys agreeing with each other, so take that for what it's worth. I don't 
> hate 'em and I don't think he does, either; my complaint is the "no 
> maintenance" marketing-speak that proponents invariably present as a 
> feature over a cassette and derailer. I don't know what the heck is going 
> on inside that hub, and wouldn't have the first clue how to fix it if it 
> crunched to a halt out on the road. I can see and get to the workings of a 
> cassette and derailer, and when a derailer gets wonky I can either adjust 
> the shifting or leave it on one cog and ride home. There's also the matter 
> of getting an IGH out of the frame to fix a flat. 
>
> In summary: Heavy, not no maintenance, harder to remove a wheel on the 
> road. I've never been convinced an IGH solves a problem caused by a 
> cassette and derailer, which I think is where GP is coming from on the 
> issue. 
>
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[RBW] Re: Is this an insane idea?

[blakcloud]

I didn't go through all the replies so forgive me if this has been posted. 

https://www.fyxation.com/products/six-fyx-conversion-kit

This to me is the most elegant solution to your problem. 

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[RBW] Re: U locks and Pitlocks

[Kainalu V.]

Regarding battery powered angle grinders. It's not minutes, it's seconds. I 
just cut a friend's wheel lock and U-lock a couple weeks back on 11th st. in 
the East Village. Like I said, seconds, and no one stopped to ask a thing about 
whether or not it was my bike or even to complain about the brief ruckus.
-Kai 
BKNY 

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[RBW] Re: Low-Normal rear derailleurs... R.I.P.?

[Melanie]

I'm with you, dt.  I love my low-normal RD and wish I had one on all my 
bikes.

Melanie

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 9:39:45 AM UTC-4, d2mini wrote:
>
> I just finished up my new Sam build and bought a new RD for it without 
> even thinking about it. Now shifting it with my bar-ends feels all wrong 
> since it's opposite of what I was used to.
> Previously with my shimano XT, I would pull up on the lever as I gained 
> speed on the flats, and if I came to a hill it was an easy push down to 
> drop into easier gears.
> Now its the opposite and just feels WRONG! lol
>
> They don't specify, but the deore model on the Riv site is Top-Normal if 
> I'm not mistaken. 
> Google isn't turning up much but a bunch of threads from like 5 years ago 
> about people already having trouble finding Low-Normal or Rapid Rise RD's.
> I did find a NOS one on ebay. 
>
> So is it just me? Anyone else with this issue? Do I just need to get over 
> it? lol
> Or if anyone can point me towards a model that's still available, I'd 
> appreciate it.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: U locks and Pitlocks

[Shoji Takahashi]

I would use mini-U-lock and pitlocks (or equivalent). If there's a 
convenient pole or bike rack to lock to, it's <10 seconds.

Shoji



On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 10:36:43 AM UTC-4, Vincent Tamer wrote:
>
> It's clear that using a combination of locks (u lock and chain) is great 
> for a extended lock up, but what about a quick lock up? Say, under 30 
> minutes? Do you still do the whole thing, or does anyone just go with a 
> smaller lock? 
>
> I'm looking for something for a quick lockup in a decent area. I like the 
> idea of a lock that is very easy to deploy. A u lock with cable can take 
> some time with Clem's long chain stays.
>
> Any advice?
>
> On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 2:13:37 PM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All, 
>>
>> Every year I drive across the country from Nevada to Minnesota to spend a 
>> month of the summer among family. I've always done it with my bikes on the 
>> hitch-mounted rack, secured with a couple of cable locks. I've never had a 
>> u lock or pit locks as I live in a low-risk area and ride to low-risk 
>> areas, rarely needing to park my bike or leave it out of sight. I'm poor in 
>> knowledge of security for bikes, I'm afraid. And with TBBITW (The Best Bike 
>> in the World) in tow, I'm fearful about losing it. I've been operating 
>> under the belief that Minnesota Nice reigns, but times have changed, I 
>> guess!
>>
>> My sister and brother in law recently moved to Minneapolis, and his bike 
>> was stolen from his yard (his fault for forgetting it out there). This is 
>> the reason why there's a grilver Clem L arriving at his local bike shop for 
>> assembly tomorrow. Today, I got a frantic call from my sister. They have a 
>> married pair of doctors (paradox? haha) visiting them from out east, and 
>> knowing that MN is prime bike country, they brought their bikes. While 
>> visiting the Swedish museum in Duluth, they parked their bikes at the rack 
>> in front of the museum entrance and the doctors secured their bikes with 
>> cable locks. They were away only briefly, and when they emerged, a museum 
>> employee was wheeling away Dan's bike. She had seen that the cable lock was 
>> cut, and she was astute enough to realize what must have happened and she 
>> was rescuing it. Christine's $1300 brand new bike had already been cut 
>> loose and taken. My sister's Birea (sp) was u-locked and thus undisturbed.
>>
>> You might imagine I have some anxiety over this, as we have lots of bike 
>> adventures planned for our stay next month. I've started looking at old 
>> threads here, but the Abus u locks mentioned aren't the current ones being 
>> sold, or the ones referenced aren't in stock. If someone out there has 
>> recently been in the market for a new u-lock, would you mind posting here? 
>> If I could lock two bikes together with one u lock, that would be even 
>> better. I'll have 4 bikes - a Betz, a Clem H, a Specialized Hotrock at 20 
>> inches, and a little Islabike. Do you think I need pit locks for our Brooks 
>> saddles? Do I need them for the wheels if we have front and rear racks on 
>> the Rivs? How long should the locks be? I've seen mini, but I think that 
>> might limit how I can park. I have a huge front basket, so that complicates 
>> parking anyway.
>>
>> I'm most grateful for the wisdom shared here!
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Low-Normal rear derailleurs... R.I.P.?

[iamkeith]

Wasn't there talk once of Riv making a Silver-branded derailleur where the 
spring in the parallelogram could be reversed, so it would work either 
way?  I'm sure it was a long shot.

I hated rapid-rise but, as others note, it's just what you get used to.  

Look for the deore xt or xtr mountain bike versions, if you want to stock 
up.   They are cheaper than earlier versions, because of demand.   And they 
are better looking than the newer ones, being still in available in a 
polished-like finish and simpler shape.

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 7:39:45 AM UTC-6, d2mini wrote:
>
> I just finished up my new Sam build and bought a new RD for it without 
> even thinking about it. Now shifting it with my bar-ends feels all wrong 
> since it's opposite of what I was used to.
> Previously with my shimano XT, I would pull up on the lever as I gained 
> speed on the flats, and if I came to a hill it was an easy push down to 
> drop into easier gears.
> Now its the opposite and just feels WRONG! lol
>
> They don't specify, but the deore model on the Riv site is Top-Normal if 
> I'm not mistaken. 
> Google isn't turning up much but a bunch of threads from like 5 years ago 
> about people already having trouble finding Low-Normal or Rapid Rise RD's.
> I did find a NOS one on ebay. 
>
> So is it just me? Anyone else with this issue? Do I just need to get over 
> it? lol
> Or if anyone can point me towards a model that's still available, I'd 
> appreciate it.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: U locks and Pitlocks

[REC (Roberta)]

>
> Hi, Leah.  
>

I wouldn't have anything to do with a cable. I had my bike stolen 30 years 
ago from a high traffic area of sunbathers and pedestrians in the middle of 
the day with a heavy duty cable lock.  I'm still skittish about locking my 
Joe A. in the city, but I'm OK with my locking protocol for outside the 
area.

I have two heavy duty Arbus u-locks--a big one and a bigger one--that I 
purchased last year.  I think they cost me about $100/$125 each. I lock my 
bike frame and one wheel to an immovable pole with the bigger lock.  I use 
the big lock to lock the second wheel to the immovable object or to the 
frame.  If they want to steal my bike, they have get thru two locks.   

I suggest you put the best lock(s) you have on your much-loved Betz.  The 
other bikes, should anything happen to them, will be much easier to 
replace.  I think with some good locks, thieves will more likely walk past 
your bikes.

Enjoy your bike rides and your vacation.

Roberta






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Re: [RBW] When bad fasteners happen to good bikes

[Patrick Moore]

I owned a very nice very early '90s DB Axis Team that I built up as a 65"
geared fixie with Noodles on a 10 cm DD stem and 60 mm Big Apples.
Wonderfully neutral handling bike with high bb that allowed you to lean
into corners surprisingly far.

Anyway, this had a period-cool dark gray-fade-to-white paint job. I
amputated all braze ons including der hangar, tt brake housing stops, and
rear canti posts, and touched it up with glossy, hard-wearing Rustoleum
appliance white. Very nice bike. The only problem was that I had to use a
ENO eccentric hub that didn't accommodate a 2-t difference, and I buggered
up the rear verticals trying to do a Sheldon with a large rat tail file. If
I had that bike now, I'd have Chauncey braze in horizontals, powdercoat it
white, and install Rat Trap Passes.

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 7:20 AM, Lum Gim Fong  wrote:

> PS- Some people on this forum have raised the level of hacks on this forum
> to “haqués”.
>
> IIRC, I have read on this forum about people cold-setting their chainstays
> so they can fit the hub they wanted on the rear wheel. Also people doing
> surgery on their frames so they can fit the tire width or chain line line
> they wanted if I recall correctly. I think Patrick Moore is guilty of this.
> He can chime in once his brain recovers.
>
> Recently another Patrick cut the dropouts off of his perfectly good
> Hunquapiller  to make it an even gooder therapeutic single speed which
> apparently worked out great.
>
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[RBW] Re: It Was the Worst of Times, It Was the Best of Times

[REC (Roberta)]

I think its awful that some people think it's OK to just take someone 
else's property!

I think D has the most wonderful SIL in the world to help him get a great 
bike, which I'm sure he will love.  I love the grilver color (so rich!).  
I'm sure he will love it!  Please remember to post pics and let us know how 
he likes his new bike.

I think he will be very happy that you have your "sales skills."You 
will be his "favorite" SIL.  :)

Roberta


>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Is this an insane idea?

[Patrick Moore]

On the subject of S3X hubs: I was told by the SA agent for these things,
last year, that you can buy replacement innards for the S3X for $100, thru
your bike shop. With that in mind, if anyone is interested in a 120 (126? I
used it in a 126 OL frame) 32 hole S3X, red barrel, silver flanges, missing
shifter and pull chain -- hub only -- for postage, he or she is welcome to
it. Perhaps someone can fix it.

I have another, 130 OL, for another Riv that I'm keeping.

I'm in 87120.

Patrick Moore
ABQ, NM

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[RBW] Re: When bad fasteners happen to good bikes

['Clayton' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I repaired my stripped out rear rack mounts on my Atlantis with Helicoils. 
(My fault from too many rack swappings and over tightening). I have had no 
problems in the five years or so since I repaired it. The helicoil is heat 
treated, which is harder to strip. As good as, or better than original 
threads. I used genuine Helicoils and kit. I am not sure of the quality of 
this kit, but it sure is cheap: 
https://www.ebay.com/i/401541206545?chn=ps&var=671254676963

Clayton
#DirtDance

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 10:22:13 PM UTC-7, LeRoy wrote:
>
> The trail that recently led me to this group began when I was Googling 
> information on repairing buggered braze-on threads. A post here entitled 
> *Stripped 
> CLEM dropout braze-on* was absolutely spot-on. My problem was stripped 
> threads on a couple of braze-on fittings on the rear drop out of my 
> new-to-me Clem Smith Jr. This couldn't have been a better match; the 
> collected wisdom in that post exactly addressed my questions and concerns. 
> So, of course, I needed to join up. 
>
> This preamble circles back to the point I suggest in the subject line: *When 
> bad fasteners happen to good bikes*.
>
> While many on this list have owned their bikes since new, others have 
> acquired them second- or third-hand, or some further multiple. Bikes that 
> have passed through numerous sets of hands often suffer from a lesser level 
> of care and feeding than a good bike deserves. What I came across on my 
> third-hand Clem was not just a couple stripped threads -- I've committed 
> that crime myself -- but true fastener innovation.
>
> Those of us whose thinking stays within the box typically use an M6 
> fastener in an M6 threaded hole. It seems to work well enough. But 
> innovative thinkers might consider the use of a vibration-resistant, 
> serrated-flange, self-piercing sheet metal screw in that M6 threaded 
> braze-on. While not an obvious solution, the advantage of this butchery is 
> two-fold. The integrated serrated flange ideally secures the looped wire 
> rod of the rear fender stay, while the self-piercing capability of the 
> thread cuts its own path in the braze-on regardless of preexisting M6x1.0 
> threads. Genius! This particular application deserves bonus points because 
> the perpetrator went so far as to paint the offending fastener in a very 
> close match to the Clem's green frame. It's not without a certain artistry.
>
> Apart from some understandable whining, my purpose in bringing up this 
> topic is to see what kinds of creative destruction others have experienced. 
> I'm throwing down the gauntlet. Can you top this?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Is this an insane idea?

[Eric Norris]

Yes—the 8-speed hub lost a couple of gears and had to be repaired by S-A. As I 
recall, it was under warrant, but I had to pay for shipping there and back.

I’ll take some updated photos of the QB and post them when I get back home from 
a business trip.

--Eric N
campyonly...@me.com
www.CampyOnly.com
Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
@Campyonlyguy


> On Jun 7, 2018, at 9:16 AM, iamkeith  wrote:
> 
> Eric, you posted while i was typing much of the same.   Earlier in the 
> thread, I linked to pictures of your Quickbeam with the 8-speed hub.  Is that 
> the one that gave you trouble?
> 
> On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 9:56:25 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
> Joe:
> 
> I have IGH on two bikes—both are Sturmey Archer’s S3X fixed-gear three-speed, 
> modified with a spin-on single speed freewheel to become more like a standard 
> hub (coasting). This setup is stronger and simpler than a standard 
> three-speed, because there are no pawls inside the hub (they are usually what 
> breaks). All of the pawls are outside in a freewheel that can be easily 
> replaced or repaired. I use White Industeries’ “Eno” freewheel and have never 
> had any problems.
> 
> I did have a Sturdy Archer hub once that developed a mechanical problem, but 
> that was limited to not having a couple of the gears. Yes, it was a pain 
> having to send the wheel back to them (Napa, CA) for repair.
> 
> In support of IGHs, I would point out that if any of us were out in the 
> middle of nowhere and a brifter decided to die, we would be basically out of 
> luck. Back in the day, you could repair Campy Ergo levers, but even then you 
> needed a workbench and tools.
> 
> IGHs make for a cleaner-looking bike without all the dangly derailleur bits, 
> they’re (mostly) immune to weather, and they force you to be a stronger 
> rider. 
> 
> --Eric N
> campyo...@ <>me.com 
> www.CampyOnly.com 
> Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com 
> @Campyonlyguy
> 
> 
>> On Jun 7, 2018, at 8:26 AM, Joe Bernard gmail.com 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> I had a chat with Grant a few months ago about IGH which was mostly two guys 
>> agreeing with each other, so take that for what it's worth. I don't hate 'em 
>> and I don't think he does, either; my complaint is the "no maintenance" 
>> marketing-speak that proponents invariably present as a feature over a 
>> cassette and derailer. I don't know what the heck is going on inside that 
>> hub, and wouldn't have the first clue how to fix it if it crunched to a halt 
>> out on the road. I can see and get to the workings of a cassette and 
>> derailer, and when a derailer gets wonky I can either adjust the shifting or 
>> leave it on one cog and ride home. There's also the matter of getting an IGH 
>> out of the frame to fix a flat. 
>> 
>> In summary: Heavy, not no maintenance, harder to remove a wheel on the road. 
>> I've never been convinced an IGH solves a problem caused by a cassette and 
>> derailer, which I think is where GP is coming from on the issue. 
>> 
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[RBW] S3X hub claimed

[Patrick Moore]

The broken hub I offered has been claimed.

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[RBW] Re: Low-Normal rear derailleurs... R.I.P.?

[d2mini]

yeah, that's what I've been looking for. If you see one that doesn't have 
"vintage" pricing, let me know! lol

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 12:02:05 PM UTC-5, iamkeith wrote:
>
> Wasn't there talk once of Riv making a Silver-branded derailleur where the 
> spring in the parallelogram could be reversed, so it would work either 
> way?  I'm sure it was a long shot.
>
> I hated rapid-rise but, as others note, it's just what you get used to.  
>
> Look for the deore xt or xtr mountain bike versions, if you want to stock 
> up.   They are cheaper than earlier versions, because of demand.   And they 
> are better looking than the newer ones, being still in available in a 
> polished-like finish and simpler shape.
>
> On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 7:39:45 AM UTC-6, d2mini wrote:
>>
>> I just finished up my new Sam build and bought a new RD for it without 
>> even thinking about it. Now shifting it with my bar-ends feels all wrong 
>> since it's opposite of what I was used to.
>> Previously with my shimano XT, I would pull up on the lever as I gained 
>> speed on the flats, and if I came to a hill it was an easy push down to 
>> drop into easier gears.
>> Now its the opposite and just feels WRONG! lol
>>
>> They don't specify, but the deore model on the Riv site is Top-Normal if 
>> I'm not mistaken. 
>> Google isn't turning up much but a bunch of threads from like 5 years ago 
>> about people already having trouble finding Low-Normal or Rapid Rise RD's.
>> I did find a NOS one on ebay. 
>>
>> So is it just me? Anyone else with this issue? Do I just need to get over 
>> it? lol
>> Or if anyone can point me towards a model that's still available, I'd 
>> appreciate it.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Low-Normal rear derailleurs... R.I.P.?

[d2mini]

Thanks. Misery loves company, ya know. ;)


On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 11:49:33 AM UTC-5, Melanie wrote:
>
> I'm with you, dt.  I love my low-normal RD and wish I had one on all my 
> bikes.
>
> Melanie
>
> On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 9:39:45 AM UTC-4, d2mini wrote:
>>
>> I just finished up my new Sam build and bought a new RD for it without 
>> even thinking about it. Now shifting it with my bar-ends feels all wrong 
>> since it's opposite of what I was used to.
>> Previously with my shimano XT, I would pull up on the lever as I gained 
>> speed on the flats, and if I came to a hill it was an easy push down to 
>> drop into easier gears.
>> Now its the opposite and just feels WRONG! lol
>>
>> They don't specify, but the deore model on the Riv site is Top-Normal if 
>> I'm not mistaken. 
>> Google isn't turning up much but a bunch of threads from like 5 years ago 
>> about people already having trouble finding Low-Normal or Rapid Rise RD's.
>> I did find a NOS one on ebay. 
>>
>> So is it just me? Anyone else with this issue? Do I just need to get over 
>> it? lol
>> Or if anyone can point me towards a model that's still available, I'd 
>> appreciate it.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Compass Antelope Pass 700 x 55: the fat tire arms race continues

['Clayton' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Umm...What about these?!   lol (Face palm)  ( 
https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/05/retyre-zips-new-tread-even-winter-spikes-over-your-tires-in-seconds/).
 
Rolling resistance must be ridiculously low. ;)  
   

Clayton 
#DirtDanceDesigns



On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 8:48:35 AM UTC-7, Neil Doran wrote:
>
> Just when you thought Compass was out of fat-tire ideas, behold: 
> https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/components/tires/700c/compass-700c-x-55-antelope-hill-tc/
>
> I seem to recall Jan stating that 700c tire fatness is optimal at about 
> 35mm, and that going wider is...sub-optimal? Maybe he will chime in here.
>
> I can't imagine many non-disc-brake frames fitting these monsters, but I 
> wonder if I could squeeze them into my Sam with sidepull 559s. It will only 
> cost me a small fortune to find out.
>

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[RBW] Re: Is this an insane idea?

[S. Greco]

I converted my Simpleone so that it could run gears. 
I had a derailleur hanger brazed on to the track ends and modified a wheel 
set I already had so that it could fit 5-6 speeds into the 120 spacing 
*without* the need to spread the rear.
I wrote about it in greater detail here:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rbw-owners-bunch/not$20so$20simple$20simpleone%7Csort:date/rbw-owners-bunch/twQp7M0UUOc/DyG46p2CEQAJ


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[RBW] Re: Is this an insane idea?

[S. Greco]

In my modded Simpleone, linked to above 
,
 
the derailleur tab could always have easily been ground off if it needed to 
be returned to stock.
The braze-ons added to clean up possible shifter setups was really what 
made the setup enjoyable for both riding and maintenance.
In single speed mode the changes were barely noticeable.
Embrace the insanity my friend.

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[RBW] Re: PSA: all rounder near chicago

[S. Greco]

It's a Riv Mountain Expedition - early/earliest Riv MTB - not an all 
rounder though I guess they're sorta related.
It's a 23" seat tube with a 21" toptube.

I have to travel to Chicago for work this weekend . . . . .
Please someone buy this so I don't make bad decisions.

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[RBW] Re: U locks and Pitlocks

[John Phillips]

   I live in Berkeley in the SF bay area where bike theft is common. As 
someone mentioned above, with the right cutting wheel, a portable angle 
grinder can cut the heaviest u-locks with two cuts in less than 2 minutes, 
so where you lock up is important. I like to sleep with my Hunqapillar 
under my pillow to make sure no one tries to run off with it in the middle 
of the night. ;-)

   My go to u-locks for when I can't keep my eyes on my bike are the Abus 
U-Lock GRANIT XPlus 540's. They're about 6 lbs each. Their locking 
mechanisms are supposed to be more resistant to rust and jamming. I also 
have a couple of Kryptonite Mini Fahgettabouditu-locks, they're 4.44 lbs 
each, and if you go with one of these read the care & feeding instructions 
online. Kryptonite recommends lubing the lock once a month with a 
teflon-based chain lube to keep it from rusting & jamming.

If I can keep an eye on my bike, I use the Tigr mini locks w/ or w/o an 
Abus u-lock.

   The tamper resistant allen bolts or Pitlock Pitstoppers are a nice way 
to prevent thieves from stealing racks, seat posts, saddles, and handlebar 
stems and pedals.

   I haven't had the best luck with Pitlocks, because the plates of the 
Pitlocks were smaller in diameter than the plates of my quick releases, and 
weren't able to hold my wheels on as securely as the quick releases. Maybe 
something with my dropouts? I don't know. They work well for others.

I would stay away from any lock that can easily be cut with a pair of bolt 
cutters. Just my 2 cents...

Have a fun trip!

John

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: all rounder near chicago

[Tim Gavin]

I presume you mean 23" top tube and 21" seat tube.  A 2" shorter top tube
would look real funny.

Cool--and rare--bike!

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 2:12 PM, S. Greco  wrote:

> It's a Riv Mountain Expedition - early/earliest Riv MTB - not an all
> rounder though I guess they're sorta related.
> It's a 23" seat tube with a 21" toptube.
>
> I have to travel to Chicago for work this weekend . . . . .
> Please someone buy this so I don't make bad decisions.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: all rounder near chicago

[Steven Sweedler]

Anyone have a link, Thanks, Steve

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 3:12 PM S. Greco  wrote:

> It's a Riv Mountain Expedition - early/earliest Riv MTB - not an all
> rounder though I guess they're sorta related.
> It's a 23" seat tube with a 21" toptube.
>
> I have to travel to Chicago for work this weekend . . . . .
> Please someone buy this so I don't make bad decisions.
>
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-- 
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Plymouth, New Hampshire

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Re: [RBW] When bad fasteners happen to good bikes

[ascpgh]

In summary, if you don't have the right bolt for the job, you're screwed.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 3:14:06 AM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Great story, and well written, btw. The message is, in short: f it doesn't 
> fit, you're not forcing it hard enough.
>
> Sorry, no story of my own comes to mind -- a mind fried by a particularly 
> obtuse resume.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:17 PM, LeRoy > 
> wrote:
>
>> The trail that recently led me to this group began when I was Googling 
>> information on repairing buggered braze-on threads. A post here entitled 
>> *Stripped 
>> CLEM dropout braze-on* was absolutely spot-on. My problem was stripped 
>> threads on a couple of braze-on fittings on the rear drop out of my 
>> new-to-me Clem Smith Jr. This couldn't have been a better match; the 
>> collected wisdom in that post exactly addressed my questions and concerns. 
>> So, of course, I needed to join up. 
>>
>> This preamble circles back to the point I suggest in the subject line: *When 
>> bad fasteners happen to good bikes*.
>>
>> While many on this list have owned their bikes since new, others have 
>> acquired them second- or third-hand, or some further multiple. Bikes that 
>> have passed through numerous sets of hands often suffer from a lesser level 
>> of care and feeding than a good bike deserves. What I came across on my 
>> third-hand Clem was not just a couple stripped threads -- I've committed 
>> that crime myself -- but true fastener innovation.
>>
>> Those of us whose thinking stays within the box typically use an M6 
>> fastener in an M6 threaded hole. It seems to work well enough. But 
>> innovative thinkers might consider the use of a vibration-resistant, 
>> serrated-flange, self-piercing sheet metal screw in that M6 threaded 
>> braze-on. While not an obvious solution, the advantage of this butchery is 
>> two-fold. The integrated serrated flange ideally secures the looped wire 
>> rod of the rear fender stay, while the self-piercing capability of the 
>> thread cuts its own path in the braze-on regardless of preexisting M6x1.0 
>> threads. Genius! This particular application deserves bonus points because 
>> the perpetrator went so far as to paint the offending fastener in a very 
>> close match to the Clem's green frame. It's not without a certain artistry.
>>
>> Apart from some understandable whining, my purpose in bringing up this 
>> topic is to see what kinds of creative destruction others have experienced. 
>> I'm throwing down the gauntlet. Can you top this?
>>
>> -- 
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>>
>
>
>
> -- 
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> **
> **
> *Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?*
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: all rounder near chicago

[Tim Gavin]

https://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/bik/d/rivendell-all-rounder-1994/6609481731.html


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 2:43 PM, Steven Sweedler  wrote:

> Anyone have a link, Thanks, Steve
>
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 3:12 PM S. Greco  wrote:
>
>> It's a Riv Mountain Expedition - early/earliest Riv MTB - not an all
>> rounder though I guess they're sorta related.
>> It's a 23" seat tube with a 21" toptube.
>>
>> I have to travel to Chicago for work this weekend . . . . .
>> Please someone buy this so I don't make bad decisions.
>>
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>
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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: all rounder near chicago

[Karl]

Steven,

https://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/bik/d/rivendell-all-rounder-1994/6609481731.html

I am also traveling to Chicago this weekend. I echo the please someone...

Karl (itching for a new Riv) Worley
Nashville, TN

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: all rounder near chicago

[S. Greco]

You are correct, the seat tube is 21and the top tube 23. Dimension 
dyslexia. 

Seller was not interested in frame and fork sale or this would already be 
sold.
Really love the color too. Jeez that thing is sweet.

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: all rounder near chicago

[Tim Gavin]

21" x 23" corresponds to a "large" in this era of MTB geometry
(post-NORBA).

I have an '88 Schwinn KOM (aka Paramountain) which has a 22" seat tube and
24" top tube; it was the "XL" in their size range.

Since I own that lugged steel dinosaur, I am not in the market for this
lovely Riv-o-saurus.

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 2:51 PM, S. Greco  wrote:

> You are correct, the seat tube is 21and the top tube 23. Dimension
> dyslexia.
>
> Seller was not interested in frame and fork sale or this would already be
> sold.
> Really love the color too. Jeez that thing is sweet.
>
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[RBW] Re: U locks and Pitlocks

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

This is great information. I have been reading and re-reading all your 
responses. I'm leaning toward the Abus locks for my bike and maybe the 
Kryptonite for the boys' little bikes. I've decided the Nutfix would be a nice 
way to go for the wheels and seat post/seat, but when I get to the website, 
there are lots of size options and I have no idea what sizes to order. If I 
called Rivendell and asked, would they know which ones I should order? 

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[RBW] Any must see bike shops in Berlin?

[Surlyprof]

I guess the title says it all.  We’re going to be visiting Berlin soon.  After 
thoroughly enjoying visits to Sogreni in Copenhagen and Blue Lug in Tokyo (both 
must sees), I was wondering if there were any shops worth visiting in Berlin.  
Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks,
John

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[RBW] Re: It Was the Worst of Times, It Was the Best of Times

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Roberta, hi! So good to "hear" your voice on the List. Let's hope D loves his 
bike as much as we think he will - he was a little off-put by the price tag, as 
he was looking at something more in the $600 range. 

A shiny grilver Clem L showed up today to a local bike shop with D's name on 
it. I can hardly wait to see and hear all about it. Those two kids are at work, 
so I haven't gotten any details yet, but I'm going to hound them after work to 
find out what's going on out there. I'll report back.

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[RBW] Re: Low-Normal rear derailleurs... R.I.P.?

[ascpgh]

I had one of those RDs on a commuter, it died way early of unsafe 
sloppiness, its parallelogram pivots wearing and the cage taking on an 
inward tilt under chain tension, close to shifting the chain over the 
biggest cog. I also had to replace the jockey wheels which were the only 
time I ever had to do that for outright function failure.  I wondered if 
that odd rate and type of wear was due to the contrary springing. I never 
had a road RD reach uselessness that way and only a MTB one that was very 
heavily used in muddy conditions that I learned to avoid as a result and 
never jockey wheels. 

I replaced the Rapid Rise with a regular one since I couldn't put my hands 
on one the afternoon I had to do the repair. Muscle memory (re)formed upon 
installation and use of the new "regular" RD. 

I use Suntour bar end shifters in friction mode with a Shimano cassette on 
my Ram and had to get used to their designed progression for unevenly 
spaced Suntour cogs on the evenly speed Shimano cassettes. That took about 
ten minutes. My friction shifting, front or rear, is quieter when riding in 
groups than all the brakey-shifty folks. I get the impression that many of 
them have conditioned to and are  prompted to shift on the audible of 
others' clacking their gears as they approach terrain changes. Not from me 
and my muscle memory friction shifting. Like learning to left foot brake my 
old SAAB to get the thing to track around corners instead of plowing on a 
slacker radius path of its own. Amazing how dumb your body parts are when 
forced to do something new. Try writing with your "other" hand.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh 

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 9:39:45 AM UTC-4, d2mini wrote:
>
> I just finished up my new Sam build and bought a new RD for it without 
> even thinking about it. Now shifting it with my bar-ends feels all wrong 
> since it's opposite of what I was used to.
> Previously with my shimano XT, I would pull up on the lever as I gained 
> speed on the flats, and if I came to a hill it was an easy push down to 
> drop into easier gears.
> Now its the opposite and just feels WRONG! lol
>
> They don't specify, but the deore model on the Riv site is Top-Normal if 
> I'm not mistaken. 
> Google isn't turning up much but a bunch of threads from like 5 years ago 
> about people already having trouble finding Low-Normal or Rapid Rise RD's.
> I did find a NOS one on ebay. 
>
> So is it just me? Anyone else with this issue? Do I just need to get over 
> it? lol
> Or if anyone can point me towards a model that's still available, I'd 
> appreciate it.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Any must see bike shops in Berlin?

[Harald Kliems]

I moved away from Berlin almost 10 years ago now and so I'm sure there will 
lots of new, interesting places. But it looks like Cicli Berlinetta is 
still around. Not super BOBish, but worth a visit for their vintage road 
and track bikes. They both sell vintage bikes and also build their 
own.http://cicli-berlinetta.com/ 

If you're interested in Dutch bikes, Radlust is the place to be: 
https://www.radlust.net/

 Harald, now in Madison (WI)

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 3:14:16 PM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> I guess the title says it all.  We’re going to be visiting Berlin soon. 
>  After thoroughly enjoying visits to Sogreni in Copenhagen and Blue Lug in 
> Tokyo (both must sees), I was wondering if there were any shops worth 
> visiting in Berlin.  Any suggestions will be appreciated. 
>
> Thanks, 
> John

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[RBW] Re: Low-Normal rear derailleurs... R.I.P.?

[Bill Lindsay]

I'm a mechanic, and I understand how things work.  I think that is the 
reason why I have several different shifter types on different bikes of 
mine and have no problem remembering how to shift each of them.  I can use 
high-normal and low-normal without freaking out.  

Regarding low normal Shimano derailers.  I think they are flat our 
superior.  I put my money where my mouth was and stocked up with a few 
lifetimes worth of rear derailers when I sensed they were going away.  I 
use high-normal derailers also, and they are fine, but I love having my 
stock of low normal derailers whenever I need one.  Stock up on the stuff 
you know you want to keep running.  9-speed cassettes, even 10-speed 
cassettes might go away next.  Top quality 8-speed cassettes are long gone, 
just like top quality 6-speed freewheels.  

Don't ask my to sell any of my stock. I prefer to keep them.

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 6:39:45 AM UTC-7, d2mini wrote:
>
> I just finished up my new Sam build and bought a new RD for it without 
> even thinking about it. Now shifting it with my bar-ends feels all wrong 
> since it's opposite of what I was used to.
> Previously with my shimano XT, I would pull up on the lever as I gained 
> speed on the flats, and if I came to a hill it was an easy push down to 
> drop into easier gears.
> Now its the opposite and just feels WRONG! lol
>
> They don't specify, but the deore model on the Riv site is Top-Normal if 
> I'm not mistaken. 
> Google isn't turning up much but a bunch of threads from like 5 years ago 
> about people already having trouble finding Low-Normal or Rapid Rise RD's.
> I did find a NOS one on ebay. 
>
> So is it just me? Anyone else with this issue? Do I just need to get over 
> it? lol
> Or if anyone can point me towards a model that's still available, I'd 
> appreciate it.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Compass Antelope Pass 700 x 55: the fat tire arms race continues

[ascpgh]

Oh, those have to be extra lightweight. A zipper?


Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 2:33:06 PM UTC-4, Clayton wrote:
>
> Umm...What about these?!   lol (Face palm)  ( 
> https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/05/retyre-zips-new-tread-even-winter-spikes-over-your-tires-in-seconds/).
>  
> Rolling resistance must be ridiculously low. ;)  
>
>
> Clayton 
> #DirtDanceDesigns
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 8:48:35 AM UTC-7, Neil Doran wrote:
>>
>> Just when you thought Compass was out of fat-tire ideas, behold: 
>> https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/components/tires/700c/compass-700c-x-55-antelope-hill-tc/
>>
>> I seem to recall Jan stating that 700c tire fatness is optimal at about 
>> 35mm, and that going wider is...sub-optimal? Maybe he will chime in here.
>>
>> I can't imagine many non-disc-brake frames fitting these monsters, but I 
>> wonder if I could squeeze them into my Sam with sidepull 559s. It will only 
>> cost me a small fortune to find out.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: New Frame Day! Almost a trade of a Black Mountain Road for a LEO

[Bill Lindsay]

Now that there is a forthcoming batch of Leos in orange, your decision should 
be even easier. 

BL in EC

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Re: [RBW] Is this an insane idea?

[Eric Karnes]

This is also intriguing. I have a wide low on there already, am a lazy 
shifter, and really only need a main and granny for most riding.

Anyone know the RR number so I can see the detail of James's build?

Eric

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 2:25:58 AM UTC-4, James Warren wrote:
>
>
> Not insane at all. I’m the somebody, and it worked well. 
>
> I switched it to Alfine 11 six years later, but I don’t like that as much, 
> and one of these months, I’m going to bring the green QB back to its 
> front-shifting glory. 
>
> -Jim W. 
>
>
> > On Jun 6, 2018, at 7:53 PM, Joe Bernard > 
> wrote: 
> > 
> > Somebody in an old Reader put a derailer claw on his QB and attached a 
> beater Shimano 200GS derailer, which then allowed him to use a wide-low 
> 2-speed crank. This is similar to the setup on my Pashley Clubman: I use a 
> Paul Melvin tensioner, 40-26 cranks and a front derailer. You could do this 
> with a triple crank, too, which would give you a pretty decent gear range 
> without modifying the frame. You'll need a cable stop for the front shifter 
> cable, too..Riv sells them. 
> > 
> > So: Rear derailer claw, old rd or singleator, double or triple cranks, 
> front derailer, front shifter and cable stop.   
> > 
> > -- 
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[RBW] Re: PSA: all rounder near chicago

[MartyG]

This one is from long ago. I have a bunch more pics I grabbed off the net. 
Was it someone's here? Great looking bike!



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[RBW] Re: PSA: all rounder near chicago

[MartyG]

And here's the write up from RR3 on the Mountain frame. The All Rounder is 
described in the same issue. 


>
>

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[RBW] WTB Medium Shopsack

[Tim O. (Portland, OR)]

Hey! 

Anybody a medium Shopsack they'd like to pass on??

I'll take it!

Cheer,
Tim O. 
Portland, OR

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Re: [RBW] Is this an insane idea?

[Max S]

What you really want is a SRAM wireless shifting implemented in an IGH! 

- Max "unplugged" in A2 


On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 6:30:38 PM UTC-4, Eric Karnes wrote:
>
> This is also intriguing. I have a wide low on there already, am a lazy 
> shifter, and really only need a main and granny for most riding.
>
> Anyone know the RR number so I can see the detail of James's build?
>
> Eric
>
> On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 2:25:58 AM UTC-4, James Warren wrote:
>>
>>
>> Not insane at all. I’m the somebody, and it worked well. 
>>
>> I switched it to Alfine 11 six years later, but I don’t like that as 
>> much, and one of these months, I’m going to bring the green QB back to its 
>> front-shifting glory. 
>>
>> -Jim W. 
>>
>>
>> > On Jun 6, 2018, at 7:53 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote: 
>> > 
>> > Somebody in an old Reader put a derailer claw on his QB and attached a 
>> beater Shimano 200GS derailer, which then allowed him to use a wide-low 
>> 2-speed crank. This is similar to the setup on my Pashley Clubman: I use a 
>> Paul Melvin tensioner, 40-26 cranks and a front derailer. You could do this 
>> with a triple crank, too, which would give you a pretty decent gear range 
>> without modifying the frame. You'll need a cable stop for the front shifter 
>> cable, too..Riv sells them. 
>> > 
>> > So: Rear derailer claw, old rd or singleator, double or triple cranks, 
>> front derailer, front shifter and cable stop.   
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
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>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Is this an insane idea?

[Joe Bernard]

I found it! RR36, this link is from Cyclofiend's Riv page. I can't believe I 
remembered what derailer he used correctly ;-)

http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr36_pg27.jpg

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Re: [RBW] Is this an insane idea?

[Joe Bernard]

This is the thingey you need to hang the derailer/tensioner..Jim used a 
derailer that had one built in. I have one around here somewhere..I'll send it 
to you if I find it soon. 

https://harriscyclery.net/m/product/sunrace-rear-derailleur-adaptor-claw-963.htm

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Re: [RBW] Is this an insane idea?

[Eric Karnes]

Thanks!

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 8:46:20 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I found it! RR36, this link is from Cyclofiend's Riv page. I can't believe 
> I remembered what derailer he used correctly ;-)
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr36_pg27.jpg
>

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[RBW] FS Kid's Beinn 24

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

(Cross post from iBoB. As Rivish as kid's bikes get. Even the aluminum 
makes sense in a bike for someone weighing 50-60 pounds.)

This is a really great bike. I tried to make do with a standard offering 
from Trek, Specialized, Jamis. But the difference in weight and correctly 
scaled components is so vast that I found this bike to be worth every 
penny. I got it when he was just under 6 and a half, he's a bit tall for 
his age. Lasted a solid 2+ years. Lots of enjoyment. Well taken care of, 
the bike has a few light scuffs but that's about it. Rides like new.

The Beinn is the all-purpose bike for kids, able to handle about town, 
road, and dirt roads, paths, and not-too-technical single track. We did it 
all. 

The Beinn 24 sells for $650. (but no longer comes in the cool green color). 
Also included is a rack, $55,  Kickstand, $20, set of Schwalbe Black Jack 
tires ($50). All told this setup would cost you $725 new. Buy this like new 
bike for $425 plus bikeflights. It will be the most fun you have on a bike 
that's not yours! Kindly direct inquiries off list. 






More photos here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/jte2HdC01o8gd2fw1

Bike specs and sizing info:
https://www.islabikes.com/product/bikes/beinn-24-age-7/

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[RBW] FS Kid's Beinn 24

[Joe Bernard]

The kid's bike is bigger than your Raleigh 20 ;-)

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[RBW] Re: Clicking noise -- About to lose my mind.

[Nathan Neuberger]

Well, they say it's always the last thing you try...

After checking off nearly everything else on the list (see below), I 
finally swapped out the pedals for a new pair of MKS Sylvan Touring.  
Problem solved.  No more clicking.  What a beautiful quiet bike.  The left 
pedal was on so hard that I had to slide a 3 ft long piece of PVC pipe over 
the pedal wrench to get it off!

Thanks everyone for all the help.  Hopefully this list can be helpful to 
someone else in the future.



On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 4:55:00 PM UTC-5, Nathan Neuberger wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone.  Tonight I took care of the 
> seat post.  No luck.  Here's what I've done and what I've left to do.  I'll 
> let you know if I find a solution:
>
> *Done so far:*
>
> New cassette, chain and chainrings (needed at least cassette and chain 
> anyway)
>
> New bottom bracket (probably didn’t need it, oh well)
>
> Overhaul headset
>
> Overhaul hubs
>
> Overhaul pedals (replace and grease bearings)
>
> Clean and grease seatpost, seat rails and bolts
>
>  
>
> *Still to do:*
>
> Check for loose spokes DONE
>
> Crank arm hitting derailleur/cable DONE
>
> Tighten chainrings DONE
>
> Grease/tighten all bolts (racks; waterbottle cages; brake lever mounting, 
> etc.) DONE
>
> Check shifter cable housing clearance DONE
>
> Re-tighten cranks arms (shouldn’t be needed, as BB was replaced this 
> winter)
>
> Try different pedals
>
> Replace crank arms
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, May 25, 2018 at 6:52:06 PM UTC-5, Nathan Neuberger wrote:
>>
>> I'm in need of some help with an aggravating problem. Several years ago 
>> my bike developed a clicking sound. It occurs at the same spot in the crank 
>> rotation. Curiously, the click does not always happen (sometimes its 
>> sleeping), but tends to wake up most often during a climb or when I'm 
>> hauling a load. But it occurs during easy riding as well.
>>
>>
>> This winter, my bike was in need of some TLC, so I replaced the chain, 
>> cassette, chainring set (but not the crank arms) and the bottom bracket. 
>> Overhauled the hubs too. That covered almost every moving part, so I 
>> figured that would solve it. Nope.
>>
>>
>> I think it is likely a pedal issue. The clicking only occurs when my 
>> right pedal is at about 12:00 (about to start a downstroke) and under 
>> relatively heavy pressure. Just pedaling with my left foot does not seem to 
>> trigger the click.
>>
>>
>> Bike is a Rivendell Homer Hilsen (2009-ish).  The pedals are MKS grip 
>> kings. I took off both pedals, cleaned them, replaced all bearings, and put 
>> in tons of grease. I did not see or feel any issues with the races. The 
>> click is still there, and seems to have gotten a little worse since I 
>> overhauled the pedals. Could the click be caused by the pedal cone being 
>> too tight?
>>
>>
>> Any other ideas?
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] PSA: A. Homer Hilsen 61 cm

[blakcloud]

 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/113006271134?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649

Saw this and thought some of you tall guys might be interested. 

I contacted the owner and he says he lives in the DC area. 

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[RBW] Re: Clicking noise -- About to lose my mind.

[Joe Bernard]

That was the first guess!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Clicking noise -- About to lose my mind.

[Andrew Letton]

Years ago, I had a pedal that clicked like that, and mechanic-extraordinaire 
Jim Langley suggested I remove the pedals, place one face (short edge, i.e. 
front or rear) of the pedal on an anvil or other sturdy metal surface, then 
hammer on the cage rivets on the other face to drive them further into the 
pedal body and flatten them out more. It worked for me! You might try that on 
the pedals you removed...cheers,Andrew

  From: Nathan Neuberger 
 To: RBW Owners Bunch  
 Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 11:25 AM
 Subject: [RBW] Re: Clicking noise -- About to lose my mind.
   
Well, they say it's always the last thing you try...
After checking off nearly everything else on the list (see below), I finally 
swapped out the pedals for a new pair of MKS Sylvan Touring.  Problem solved.  
No more clicking.  What a beautiful quiet bike.  The left pedal was on so hard 
that I had to slide a 3 ft long piece of PVC pipe over the pedal wrench to get 
it off!
Thanks everyone for all the help.  Hopefully this list can be helpful to 
someone else in the future.


On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 4:55:00 PM UTC-5, Nathan Neuberger wrote:

Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone.  Tonight I took care of the seat 
post.  No luck.  Here's what I've done and what I've left to do.  I'll let you 
know if I find a solution:
Done so far:New cassette, chain and chainrings (needed at least cassetteand 
chain anyway)New bottom bracket (probably didn’t need it, oh well)Overhaul 
headsetOverhaul hubsOverhaul pedals (replace and grease bearings)Clean and 
grease seatpost, seat rails and bolts Still to do:Check for loose spokes 
DONECrank arm hitting derailleur/cable DONETighten chainrings 
DONEGrease/tighten all bolts (racks; waterbottle cages; brakelever mounting, 
etc.) DONECheck shifter cable housing clearance DONERe-tighten cranks arms 
(shouldn’t be needed, as BB wasreplaced this winter)Try different pedalsReplace 
crank arms


On Friday, May 25, 2018 at 6:52:06 PM UTC-5, Nathan Neuberger wrote:
I'm in need of some help with an aggravating problem. Several years ago my bike 
developed a clicking sound. It occurs at the same spot in the crank rotation. 
Curiously, the click does not always happen (sometimes its sleeping), but tends 
to wake up most often during a climb or when I'm hauling a load. But it occurs 
during easy riding as well.
This winter, my bike was in need of some TLC, so I replaced the chain, 
cassette, chainring set (but not the crank arms) and the bottom bracket. 
Overhauled the hubs too. That covered almost every moving part, so I figured 
that would solve it. Nope.
I think it is likely a pedal issue. The clicking only occurs when my right 
pedal is at about 12:00 (about to start a downstroke) and under relatively 
heavy pressure. Just pedaling with my left foot does not seem to trigger the 
click.

Bike is a Rivendell Homer Hilsen (2009-ish).  The pedals are MKS grip kings. I 
took off both pedals, cleaned them, replaced all bearings, and put in tons of 
grease. I did not see or feel any issues with the races. The click is still 
there, and seems to have gotten a little worse since I overhauled the pedals. 
Could the click be caused by the pedal cone being too tight?
Any other ideas?


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Re: [RBW] Re: Clicking noise -- About to lose my mind.

[Patrick Moore]

Nathan: Do you have any idea about why the pedal was clicking? Bearing
problem of some sort?

Inquiring minds want to know.

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 7:25 PM, Nathan Neuberger 
wrote:

> Well, they say it's always the last thing you try...
>
> After checking off nearly everything else on the list (see below), I
> finally swapped out the pedals for a new pair of MKS Sylvan Touring.
> Problem solved.  No more clicking.  What a beautiful quiet bike.  The left
> pedal was on so hard that I had to slide a 3 ft long piece of PVC pipe over
> the pedal wrench to get it off!
>
> Thanks everyone for all the help.  Hopefully this list can be helpful to
> someone else in the future.
>
>
>
> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 4:55:00 PM UTC-5, Nathan Neuberger wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone.  Tonight I took care of the
>> seat post.  No luck.  Here's what I've done and what I've left to do.  I'll
>> let you know if I find a solution:
>>
>> *Done so far:*
>>
>> New cassette, chain and chainrings (needed at least cassette and chain
>> anyway)
>>
>> New bottom bracket (probably didn’t need it, oh well)
>>
>> Overhaul headset
>>
>> Overhaul hubs
>>
>> Overhaul pedals (replace and grease bearings)
>>
>> Clean and grease seatpost, seat rails and bolts
>>
>>
>>
>> *Still to do:*
>>
>> Check for loose spokes DONE
>>
>> Crank arm hitting derailleur/cable DONE
>>
>> Tighten chainrings DONE
>>
>> Grease/tighten all bolts (racks; waterbottle cages; brake lever mounting,
>> etc.) DONE
>>
>> Check shifter cable housing clearance DONE
>>
>> Re-tighten cranks arms (shouldn’t be needed, as BB was replaced this
>> winter)
>>
>> Try different pedals
>>
>> Replace crank arms
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, May 25, 2018 at 6:52:06 PM UTC-5, Nathan Neuberger wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm in need of some help with an aggravating problem. Several years ago
>>> my bike developed a clicking sound. It occurs at the same spot in the crank
>>> rotation. Curiously, the click does not always happen (sometimes its
>>> sleeping), but tends to wake up most often during a climb or when I'm
>>> hauling a load. But it occurs during easy riding as well.
>>>
>>>
>>> This winter, my bike was in need of some TLC, so I replaced the chain,
>>> cassette, chainring set (but not the crank arms) and the bottom bracket.
>>> Overhauled the hubs too. That covered almost every moving part, so I
>>> figured that would solve it. Nope.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think it is likely a pedal issue. The clicking only occurs when my
>>> right pedal is at about 12:00 (about to start a downstroke) and under
>>> relatively heavy pressure. Just pedaling with my left foot does not seem to
>>> trigger the click.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bike is a Rivendell Homer Hilsen (2009-ish).  The pedals are MKS grip
>>> kings. I took off both pedals, cleaned them, replaced all bearings, and put
>>> in tons of grease. I did not see or feel any issues with the races. The
>>> click is still there, and seems to have gotten a little worse since I
>>> overhauled the pedals. Could the click be caused by the pedal cone being
>>> too tight?
>>>
>>>
>>> Any other ideas?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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**
**
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Re: [RBW] Re: Clicking noise -- About to lose my mind.

[Nathan Neuberger]

I don't know.  From some Google searches during this, I've learned that the 
Grip Kings have a reputation for coming from the factory with only a 
minimal amount of grease on the bearings.  Combine that with the fact that 
I haven't ever overhauled those pedals (oops) suggests that they finally 
ran out of lubrication.  When I opened them up a few weeks ago to replace 
the bearings and grease everything, I didn't notice any abrasions in any of 
the bearing races or on the cones.  But that doesn't mean there isn't a 
minor imperfection there that I didn't notice.  I'll take a closer look one 
of these days.  I probably should have greased them up from the start...


On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 8:48:50 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Nathan: Do you have any idea about why the pedal was clicking? Bearing 
> problem of some sort?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know.
>
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 7:25 PM, Nathan Neuberger  > wrote:
>
>> Well, they say it's always the last thing you try...
>>
>> After checking off nearly everything else on the list (see below), I 
>> finally swapped out the pedals for a new pair of MKS Sylvan Touring.  
>> Problem solved.  No more clicking.  What a beautiful quiet bike.  The left 
>> pedal was on so hard that I had to slide a 3 ft long piece of PVC pipe over 
>> the pedal wrench to get it off!
>>
>> Thanks everyone for all the help.  Hopefully this list can be helpful to 
>> someone else in the future.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 4:55:00 PM UTC-5, Nathan Neuberger wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone.  Tonight I took care of the 
>>> seat post.  No luck.  Here's what I've done and what I've left to do.  I'll 
>>> let you know if I find a solution:
>>>
>>> *Done so far:*
>>>
>>> New cassette, chain and chainrings (needed at least cassette and chain 
>>> anyway)
>>>
>>> New bottom bracket (probably didn’t need it, oh well)
>>>
>>> Overhaul headset
>>>
>>> Overhaul hubs
>>>
>>> Overhaul pedals (replace and grease bearings)
>>>
>>> Clean and grease seatpost, seat rails and bolts
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> *Still to do:*
>>>
>>> Check for loose spokes DONE
>>>
>>> Crank arm hitting derailleur/cable DONE
>>>
>>> Tighten chainrings DONE
>>>
>>> Grease/tighten all bolts (racks; waterbottle cages; brake lever 
>>> mounting, etc.) DONE
>>>
>>> Check shifter cable housing clearance DONE
>>>
>>> Re-tighten cranks arms (shouldn’t be needed, as BB was replaced this 
>>> winter)
>>>
>>> Try different pedals
>>>
>>> Replace crank arms
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 25, 2018 at 6:52:06 PM UTC-5, Nathan Neuberger wrote:

 I'm in need of some help with an aggravating problem. Several years ago 
 my bike developed a clicking sound. It occurs at the same spot in the 
 crank 
 rotation. Curiously, the click does not always happen (sometimes its 
 sleeping), but tends to wake up most often during a climb or when I'm 
 hauling a load. But it occurs during easy riding as well.


 This winter, my bike was in need of some TLC, so I replaced the chain, 
 cassette, chainring set (but not the crank arms) and the bottom bracket. 
 Overhauled the hubs too. That covered almost every moving part, so I 
 figured that would solve it. Nope.


 I think it is likely a pedal issue. The clicking only occurs when my 
 right pedal is at about 12:00 (about to start a downstroke) and under 
 relatively heavy pressure. Just pedaling with my left foot does not seem 
 to 
 trigger the click.


 Bike is a Rivendell Homer Hilsen (2009-ish).  The pedals are MKS grip 
 kings. I took off both pedals, cleaned them, replaced all bearings, and 
 put 
 in tons of grease. I did not see or feel any issues with the races. The 
 click is still there, and seems to have gotten a little worse since I 
 overhauled the pedals. Could the click be caused by the pedal cone being 
 too tight?


 Any other ideas?


 -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
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>> .
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, New Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
> **
> **
> *Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?*
>

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[RBW] The Most Disappointing Bike: A Satire

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I just got off the phone with my sister. She accompanied a married couple who 
are dear friends from out east to Duluth, MN where they hit the bike trails and 
saw all the sights. Heather knows very little about Rivendell, but is tolerant 
of my enthusiasm for all things Grant and Co. When she told me this story we 
laughed until our sides hurt and I knew I had to retell it to a sympathetic 
audience. Now, here is the DISCLAIMER: Some of you like racy, skinny, 
lightweight bikes. Some of you appreciate the roadie life. Some of you are 
partial to drop bars and clipless pedals. And that’s lovely, and we are among 
friends here, but I’m about to poke fun of all those things. I don’t mean to 
offend, but I do so love to laugh, so I hope you will forgive me for being 
offensive this one time, and just giggle with me for a bit. If you are feeling 
gracious, and you like a little satire in your life, please do read on! If not, 
stop HERE...

It was the first morning, and the plan was to hit the bike trails early and see 
some historic sights in the city. Heather dressed in a breezy, colorful, 
summery outfit, and bounded downstairs to the lobby. Christine and Dan arrived, 
looked at Heather, disbelieving and said, “Is that what you’re wearing?!” 
Heather looked back at them, eyes roving over their unusual outfits. They were 
covered in colorful, skin-tight lycra. They donned shorts that were oddly 
padded and somewhat profane, as their crotches were accentuated and bulging. 
Their shoes were weird, and made sharp clicks on the tile with every step. “Is 
that what YOU’RE wearing?!” Heather gasped. 

Ah, but they are good friends, so everyone shrugged and headed out the door. 
They made their way to their bikes, where they were about to have their next 
mutual shock. Heather has a lovely red Biria, bedecked with racks and a basket 
and capped with a nice, wide saddle. Hers are romantic, swept-back handlebars, 
and her tires are smartly covered with fenders. She has chosen this bike 
because she has commuted downtown for years in several cities and these 
attributes of the bike are the ones that make sense to her. She has never read 
Grant’s book. She doesn’t care about online forums or bike literature. She 
arrived at these conclusions because she knows that they work. Thus, when she 
looked over at her friends’ carbon racing machines, she couldn’t help but gawk. 
Dan’s bike is a 20 year old carbon machine, and Christine’s carbon bike was 
purchased in October. No fenders. No racks (Dan had a giant backpack he was 
carrying like a pack mule, and the day was a sweltering one.). Christine and 
Dan mounted their bikes and suddenly their feet were glued to their pedals. 
What fresh horror was this? My sister kept staring at this couple struggling to 
release their feet from these traps at every intersection and stop. Christine 
was less skilled at this, and at one of their stops she tipped over, padded 
shorts and all. “Why do you use those?” Heather asked incredulously, pointing 
to the pedals. “Oh, these REALLY help with efficiency,” explained Dan, as 
Christine scraped herself off the pavement. 

They reached their first destination. There was a lovely waterfall to 
appreciate, so they dismounted and made their way to it. Clickety-clack, 
clickety-clack went the Efficiency Shoes on the boardwalk. The rest of the 
afternoon was much like that, and 25 miles later, so ended the first day.

The next morning found the couple dithering about what to wear. They were going 
out for a nice lunch and to visit a local museum, and the couple was in a 
quandary about their clothes. They were biking so they needed “bike clothes.” 
But they were also planning to do fun, touristy things, so they needed “normal 
clothes.”  They didn’t want to wear the clickety-clacks, but their pedals 
called for it.  “I don’t know if I can ride my bike without my padded shorts,” 
said Christine. They compromised. They put on normal clothing with their 
clickety-clacks. Then they stuffed extra shoes into Dan’s large backpack. They 
pedaled off, crotches on fire, Dan sweating under the weight strapped to his 
back. 

“Why do you have that bike seat if it hurts to ride it?” asked Heather, 
genuinely curious. 

“Oh, well, I probably save 5 grams using this one!” crowed Dan, “And you may 
not think that sounds like much, but a few grams here and a few grams there 
really adds up!” 

They continued on, where their way was impeded by several puddles. Heather 
lifted her legs up and sailed gleefully through the water, outfit intact and 
free of mud. Oddly, she was alone. She looked back and saw her friends, who had 
come almost to a halt, negotiating their way around the puddles. “Do fenders 
add weight too?” Heather asked. “Yes,” they said. “And we don’t really ride 
around puddles anyway, so we never need them.” 

After they got to the museum, they locked their bikes up. Broad daylight, to a 
bike rack, they with cable locks and Heather with a U-lock. W

Re: [RBW] The Most Disappointing Bike: A Satire

[Andrew Letton]

Most excellent story! (Except for the bike theft, of course...)Cheers from 
Oz,Andrew

  From: Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
 To: RBW Owners Bunch  
 Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 12:04 PM
 Subject: [RBW] The Most Disappointing Bike: A Satire
   
I just got off the phone with my sister. She accompanied a married couple who 
are dear friends from out east to Duluth, MN where they hit the bike trails and 
saw all the sights. Heather knows very little about Rivendell, but is tolerant 
of my enthusiasm for all things Grant and Co. When she told me this story we 
laughed until our sides hurt and I knew I had to retell it to a sympathetic 
audience. Now, here is the DISCLAIMER: Some of you like racy, skinny, 
lightweight bikes. Some of you appreciate the roadie life. Some of you are 
partial to drop bars and clipless pedals. And that’s lovely, and we are among 
friends here, but I’m about to poke fun of all those things. I don’t mean to 
offend, but I do so love to laugh, so I hope you will forgive me for being 
offensive this one time, and just giggle with me for a bit. If you are feeling 
gracious, and you like a little satire in your life, please do read on! If not, 
stop HERE...

It was the first morning, and the plan was to hit the bike trails early and see 
some historic sights in the city. Heather dressed in a breezy, colorful, 
summery outfit, and bounded downstairs to the lobby. Christine and Dan arrived, 
looked at Heather, disbelieving and said, “Is that what you’re wearing?!” 
Heather looked back at them, eyes roving over their unusual outfits. They were 
covered in colorful, skin-tight lycra. They donned shorts that were oddly 
padded and somewhat profane, as their crotches were accentuated and bulging. 
Their shoes were weird, and made sharp clicks on the tile with every step. “Is 
that what YOU’RE wearing?!” Heather gasped. 

Ah, but they are good friends, so everyone shrugged and headed out the door. 
They made their way to their bikes, where they were about to have their next 
mutual shock. Heather has a lovely red Biria, bedecked with racks and a basket 
and capped with a nice, wide saddle. Hers are romantic, swept-back handlebars, 
and her tires are smartly covered with fenders. She has chosen this bike 
because she has commuted downtown for years in several cities and these 
attributes of the bike are the ones that make sense to her. She has never read 
Grant’s book. She doesn’t care about online forums or bike literature. She 
arrived at these conclusions because she knows that they work. Thus, when she 
looked over at her friends’ carbon racing machines, she couldn’t help but gawk. 
Dan’s bike is a 20 year old carbon machine, and Christine’s carbon bike was 
purchased in October. No fenders. No racks (Dan had a giant backpack he was 
carrying like a pack mule, and the day was a sweltering one.). Christine and 
Dan mounted their bikes and suddenly their feet were glued to their pedals. 
What fresh horror was this? My sister kept staring at this couple struggling to 
release their feet from these traps at every intersection and stop. Christine 
was less skilled at this, and at one of their stops she tipped over, padded 
shorts and all. “Why do you use those?” Heather asked incredulously, pointing 
to the pedals. “Oh, these REALLY help with efficiency,” explained Dan, as 
Christine scraped herself off the pavement. 

They reached their first destination. There was a lovely waterfall to 
appreciate, so they dismounted and made their way to it. Clickety-clack, 
clickety-clack went the Efficiency Shoes on the boardwalk. The rest of the 
afternoon was much like that, and 25 miles later, so ended the first day.

The next morning found the couple dithering about what to wear. They were going 
out for a nice lunch and to visit a local museum, and the couple was in a 
quandary about their clothes. They were biking so they needed “bike clothes.” 
But they were also planning to do fun, touristy things, so they needed “normal 
clothes.”  They didn’t want to wear the clickety-clacks, but their pedals 
called for it.  “I don’t know if I can ride my bike without my padded shorts,” 
said Christine. They compromised. They put on normal clothing with their 
clickety-clacks. Then they stuffed extra shoes into Dan’s large backpack. They 
pedaled off, crotches on fire, Dan sweating under the weight strapped to his 
back. 

“Why do you have that bike seat if it hurts to ride it?” asked Heather, 
genuinely curious. 

“Oh, well, I probably save 5 grams using this one!” crowed Dan, “And you may 
not think that sounds like much, but a few grams here and a few grams there 
really adds up!” 

They continued on, where their way was impeded by several puddles. Heather 
lifted her legs up and sailed gleefully through the water, outfit intact and 
free of mud. Oddly, she was alone. She looked back and saw her friends, who had 
come almost to a halt, negotiating their way around the puddles. “Do fenders 
add weight too?” Heathe

[RBW] Re: The Most Disappointing Bike: A Satire

[dougP]

Excepting the bike theft, that is an excellent story.  The Brits have a 
phrase "...chalk & cheese..." to describe polar opposites.  "Is that what 
you're wearing???"  How many times have I heard that!

dougP

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 7:04:44 PM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> I just got off the phone with my sister. She accompanied a married couple 
> who are dear friends from out east to Duluth, MN where they hit the bike 
> trails and saw all the sights. Heather knows very little about Rivendell, 
> but is tolerant of my enthusiasm for all things Grant and Co. When she told 
> me this story we laughed until our sides hurt and I knew I had to retell it 
> to a sympathetic audience. Now, here is the DISCLAIMER: Some of you like 
> racy, skinny, lightweight bikes. Some of you appreciate the roadie life. 
> Some of you are partial to drop bars and clipless pedals. And that’s 
> lovely, and we are among friends here, but I’m about to poke fun of all 
> those things. I don’t mean to offend, but I do so love to laugh, so I hope 
> you will forgive me for being offensive this one time, and just giggle with 
> me for a bit. If you are feeling gracious, and you like a little satire in 
> your life, please do read on! If not, stop HERE... 
>
> It was the first morning, and the plan was to hit the bike trails early 
> and see some historic sights in the city. Heather dressed in a breezy, 
> colorful, summery outfit, and bounded downstairs to the lobby. Christine 
> and Dan arrived, looked at Heather, disbelieving and said, “Is that what 
> you’re wearing?!” Heather looked back at them, eyes roving over their 
> unusual outfits. They were covered in colorful, skin-tight lycra. They 
> donned shorts that were oddly padded and somewhat profane, as their 
> crotches were accentuated and bulging. Their shoes were weird, and made 
> sharp clicks on the tile with every step. “Is that what YOU’RE wearing?!” 
> Heather gasped. 
>
> Ah, but they are good friends, so everyone shrugged and headed out the 
> door. They made their way to their bikes, where they were about to have 
> their next mutual shock. Heather has a lovely red Biria, bedecked with 
> racks and a basket and capped with a nice, wide saddle. Hers are romantic, 
> swept-back handlebars, and her tires are smartly covered with fenders. She 
> has chosen this bike because she has commuted downtown for years in several 
> cities and these attributes of the bike are the ones that make sense to 
> her. She has never read Grant’s book. She doesn’t care about online forums 
> or bike literature. She arrived at these conclusions because she knows that 
> they work. Thus, when she looked over at her friends’ carbon racing 
> machines, she couldn’t help but gawk. Dan’s bike is a 20 year old carbon 
> machine, and Christine’s carbon bike was purchased in October. No fenders. 
> No racks (Dan had a giant backpack he was carrying like a pack mule, and 
> the day was a sweltering one.). Christine and Dan mounted their bikes and 
> suddenly their feet were glued to their pedals. What fresh horror was this? 
> My sister kept staring at this couple struggling to release their feet from 
> these traps at every intersection and stop. Christine was less skilled at 
> this, and at one of their stops she tipped over, padded shorts and all. 
> “Why do you use those?” Heather asked incredulously, pointing to the 
> pedals. “Oh, these REALLY help with efficiency,” explained Dan, as 
> Christine scraped herself off the pavement. 
>
> They reached their first destination. There was a lovely waterfall to 
> appreciate, so they dismounted and made their way to it. Clickety-clack, 
> clickety-clack went the Efficiency Shoes on the boardwalk. The rest of the 
> afternoon was much like that, and 25 miles later, so ended the first day. 
>
> The next morning found the couple dithering about what to wear. They were 
> going out for a nice lunch and to visit a local museum, and the couple was 
> in a quandary about their clothes. They were biking so they needed “bike 
> clothes.” But they were also planning to do fun, touristy things, so they 
> needed “normal clothes.”  They didn’t want to wear the clickety-clacks, but 
> their pedals called for it.  “I don’t know if I can ride my bike without my 
> padded shorts,” said Christine. They compromised. They put on normal 
> clothing with their clickety-clacks. Then they stuffed extra shoes into 
> Dan’s large backpack. They pedaled off, crotches on fire, Dan sweating 
> under the weight strapped to his back. 
>
> “Why do you have that bike seat if it hurts to ride it?” asked Heather, 
> genuinely curious. 
>
> “Oh, well, I probably save 5 grams using this one!” crowed Dan, “And you 
> may not think that sounds like much, but a few grams here and a few grams 
> there really adds up!” 
>
> They continued on, where their way was impeded by several puddles. Heather 
> lifted her legs up and sailed gleefully through the water, outfit intac

Re: [RBW] Re: Clicking noise -- About to lose my mind.

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Nathan. Whatever the cause, I'm glad you've solved the problem. I
know that the cheap Sylvans and GR-9s, and I daresay other cheap MKS
models, are notorious when new for their tight, dry bearings -- the cheap
and easy solution to which is, to dribble thick and/or clingy oil -- Phil
is excellent; I use chain saw oil -- down the axle and then to ride them
smooth. At least, that has always worked for me, and has worked fine for my
present pair of the wonderfully nice but very oddly named MKS Esprit pedals.

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 8:01 PM, Nathan Neuberger 
wrote:

> I don't know.  From some Google searches during this, I've learned that
> the Grip Kings have a reputation for coming from the factory with only a
> minimal amount of grease on the bearings.  Combine that with the fact that
> I haven't ever overhauled those pedals (oops) suggests that they finally
> ran out of lubrication.  When I opened them up a few weeks ago to replace
> the bearings and grease everything, I didn't notice any abrasions in any of
> the bearing races or on the cones.  But that doesn't mean there isn't a
> minor imperfection there that I didn't notice.  I'll take a closer look one
> of these days.  I probably should have greased them up from the start...
>

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[RBW] The Most Disappointing Bike: A Satire

[Joe Bernard]

The description of first seeing the shorts is..well..I can't bring myself to 
quote it, but this was spectacular! You're good at the story-telling thing, 
Leah :-)

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[RBW] Re: Is this an insane idea?

[Ian A]

This looks like it might work for the 
S1 
https://veloduo.glopal.com/en-CA/p-10261314567/sunxcd-chain-tug-with-derailleur-mount.html

IanA

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 5:54:35 PM UTC-6, Eric Karnes wrote:
>
> So, I've been pondering something lately...
>
> As I've mentioned a number of times in various discussions here, I'm 
> completely enamored with my SimpleOne. It's the best bike I've ever ridden. 
> But I lack the legs of Deacon and require gears for some of longer 
> mixed-terrain rides I do (although I'm seriously interested in learning 
> more about his floor living ideas...but I digress). Recently, I've been 
> toying with the idea of tracking down another SO or Quickbeam and having a 
> frame builder convert the track ends to run-of-the-mill dropouts and spread 
> the rear end to accommodate the 130mm cassette wheels I already own. 
>
> Is this idea insane? Blasphemous? Would it be possible (or advisable) to 
> spread the rear that far? Would it make more sense to just have a custom 
> built? I can't really afford $3500 for a Riv custom and don't know the 
> tubing specs (which I imagine are as important as geometry). And even if 
> Riv were willing to divulge those details, it would be unethical to get 
> that info and then have someone execute Grant's exact design for cheaper. 
>
> Any thoughts to help me work through this first-world conundrum?
>
> Eric
>

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Re: [RBW] The Most Disappointing Bike: A Satire

[Leah Peterson]

How Patrick, 

Well, I did warn you to use discretion in reading this account. And while I did 
poke fun, the point wasn’t to laugh about people riding what they want. It is 
to illustrate (using humor) how the culture has taken the simplicity of a bike 
ride and sucked every drop of enjoyment out of it. The special shoes and 
special clothes and special bike all worked together to make the couple’s 
experience rather miserable. They will never admit this. Burdened time and time 
again by their racing-inspired bikes and kit, they, in saving their grams, knew 
best. And when Christine orders her new bike, it will be another racing bike, 
because the industry told her it’s the best and she will believe that. Even 
when her “undercarriage” is flaming from spending miles in her skimpy saddle. 
Even when she’s tipped over on the street, trapped in her pedals. Even when she 
doesn’t feel she can go to the museum without a costume change. Even when Dan 
(an ortho doc) must be hunched over portaging his backpack because a rack would 
add precious grams to his race bike, they will still believe. 

That is why this is so interesting and even amusing. Even when presented with 
stark evidence that racing gear is not meant for the majority of riders, people 
will still insist it’s the standard. This vignette was just a plucky little 
reference to that. 

But yes, I hear you. I’m a believer in freedom and riding what you want. I just 
wish people would ignore racing’s influence and ride what MAKES SENSE. Maybe 
we’d have more people on bikes if that were the case. What a win that would be!

Enjoy your bike and keep on riding! You are an example to us!

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 7, 2018, at 8:42 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
> 
> A good story. But every story needs a counter story. Mine is attached as a 
> jpeg.
> 
> I've owned 3 Riv Road customs and 5 Rivendells -- Sam and Ram as well as the 
> customs. I have to say that the one pictured (1999) is the most comfortable 
> bike I've owned in a long life of buying and flipping bikes; if someone held 
> a gun to my head and said: "Choose One!", I'd have to choose this one.
> 
> Note that I ride it in Rapha touring shorts over boxers, when I'm not riding 
> it in cut off khakis over boxers; no gloves or helment, and in SPDs (7410s). 
> I have an almost-identical one built up with dyno lights, fenders (high 
> desert!), and f and r racks for groceries and errands.
> 
> More seriously, I think everyone should ride what he or she likes to ride. I 
> do know that we are all influenced in our views of "normal" by what we grew 
> up with; that itself is normal. I got "serious" about cycling about 1969, age 
> 14 -- perhaps earlier, because I was "hot rodding" my bikes at 12 and 13 -- 
> and built my first bike from scratch in 1970 (Indian roadster frame bought at 
> a Nairobi bike shop; donated 700C Czecho steel flip flop rear, 24" front 
> stolen from my brother's kiddie bike -- no brake fit. I recall, on home 
> leaves, annoying the owners of Genevan and Parisian news kiosks by my halting 
> French attempts to identify which cycling sportif mag I wanted from the vast 
> displays. I also recall scouring the slim selection of cycling books in the 
> Nairobi public library.
> 
> Let's not be too quick to laugh at others; in my own case, I know I have 
> plenty to laugh at in myself.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 8:04 PM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>  wrote:
>> I just got off the phone with my sister. She accompanied a married couple 
>> who are dear friends from out east to Duluth, MN where they hit the bike 
>> trails and saw all the sights. Heather knows very little about Rivendell, 
>> but is tolerant of my enthusiasm for all things Grant and Co. When she told 
>> me this story we laughed until our sides hurt and I knew I had to retell it 
>> to a sympathetic audience. Now, here is the DISCLAIMER: Some of you like 
>> racy, skinny, lightweight bikes. Some of you appreciate the roadie life. 
>> Some of you are partial to drop bars and clipless pedals. And that’s lovely, 
>> and we are among friends here, but I’m about to poke fun of all those 
>> things. I don’t mean to offend, but I do so love to laugh, so I hope you 
>> will forgive me for being offensive this one time, and just giggle with me 
>> for a bit. If you are feeling gracious, and you like a little satire in your 
>> life, please do read on! If not, stop HERE...
>> 
>> It was the first morning, and the plan was to hit the bike trails early and 
>> see some historic sights in the city. Heather dressed in a breezy, colorful, 
>> summery outfit, and bounded downstairs to the lobby. Christine and Dan 
>> arrived, looked at Heather, disbelieving and said, “Is that what you’re 
>> wearing?!” Heather looked back at them, eyes roving over their unusual 
>> outfits. They were covered in colorful, skin-tight lycra. They donned shorts 
>> that were oddly padded and somewhat profane, as their crotches were 
>> accentuated and

Re: [RBW] The Most Disappointing Bike: A Satire

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Why that autocorrected to “How Patrick” I don’t know, it was supposed to be “Hi 
Patrick!” 😊

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Re: [RBW] The Most Disappointing Bike: A Satire

[Joe Bernard]

Leah, your humor reflected a real thing that Grant built an entire bike company 
and riding style out of. I took it as intended, and really love your writing. 
For example:
 
"It was the first morning, and the plan was to hit the bike trails early and 
see some historic sights in the city. Heather dressed in a breezy, colorful, 
summery outfit, and bounded downstairs to the lobby."

>From this I had the geography and time of day sorted, and could clearly see 
>Heather in my mind "bounding" downstairs. That's good stuff!

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