Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Possibly off topic but not by too much: Classic Burberry trench.

[Patrick Moore]

It's not what is conventionally marked a 48; it is meant to fit someone
rather tall and narrow. Again, it fits me still while wearing a 42 R sport
coat, albeit a wee bit more snugly than is perfect, and when I bought it I
was probably 10-15 lb lighter than I am now. In fact, nowadays, it fits me
best worn without the sport jacket.

Best for someone near 6' or long-torso'd 5'10" and 160 to 180 lb, depending
on how you want to use it.


On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 7:21 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> Sure. Bait and switch from a 42 to a 48L! Except with my monkey, er,
> nordic arms it would not work. Plus I have no way to justify such suave for
> my ogre carcass. May whomever gets it have many years of fantastic use.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
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Albuquerque, NM

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[RBW] Re: FS: SlickerSack & Platrack

[Deacon Patrick]

Allan,

Who makes your tweed knickers/breeches?

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, December 16, 2013 11:36:57 PM UTC-7, Allan in Portland wrote:
>
> Tweed shorts are spoken for.
>
> On Monday, December 16, 2013 10:03:08 PM UTC-8, Allan in Portland wrote:
>>
>> Bump. With pictures this time. And a new price. $260, or make me an 
>> offer. But be quick. I'm leaving town Thursday. Thursday *morning* is the 
>> last day I'll be able to ship before January 2014.
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47116230@N00/sets/72157631920243259/
>>
>> Also, the tweed cycling shorts are still available. Also, new w/ tags. 
>> Pre-Christmas blow-out. $50 for two pair. They're nice. I have them in a 
>> knee length knicker for myself, which I wear year-round, adding long-johns 
>> in the winter. Love 'em. I reckon almost 1000 miles and not a hint of wear 
>> in the seat.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Allan
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:02:31 AM UTC-8, Allan in Portland wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Green canvas Slickersack, NIB. Straps, pads, dividers, product 
>>> registration card... the whole nine yards.
>>> Platrack is used, but the extra long mounting struts that go with it are 
>>> not.
>>>
>>> $300 shipped CONUS. Paypal preferred.
>>>
>>> The perfect gift for that certain hard-to-buy-for loved one on your 
>>> Christmas list. (Assuming you're the hard-to-buy-for loved one, just bounce 
>>> this email to your loved, they'll get the hint. :) )
>>>
>>> I'll be uploading photos shortly, but it's NIB so not exactly anything 
>>> unique to show, that isn't already known.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> -Allan
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Ron Mc]

My vote goes to Mercian.  


On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:04:12 AM UTC-6, Tim McNamara wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 17, 2013, at 12:27 AM, Michael > 
> wrote: 
> > 
> > Who made the USA's finest lugged, steel, frames back then and what were 
> the prices like? 
>
> Albert Eisentraut was sort of the granddaddy of American frame builders, 
> so perhaps him.  Tom Ritchey built fine lugged frames in his early days. 
>  But most bikies wanting a great lugged frame ordered them from Europe 
> (e.g., Cinelli) or the UK in those days (Taylor, Holdsworth, etc.).

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RE: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Isn't Mercian British?

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Mc
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:25 AM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Cc: tim...@bitstream.net
Subject: Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

My vote goes to Mercian.


On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:04:12 AM UTC-6, Tim McNamara wrote:


> On Dec 17, 2013, at 12:27 AM, Michael > wrote:
>
> Who made the USA's finest lugged, steel, frames back then and what were the 
> prices like?

Albert Eisentraut was sort of the granddaddy of American frame builders, so 
perhaps him.  Tom Ritchey built fine lugged frames in his early days.  But most 
bikies wanting a great lugged frame ordered them from Europe (e.g., Cinelli) or 
the UK in those days (Taylor, Holdsworth, etc.).
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or applicable state or local tax law provisions or (ii) promoting, marketing or 
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Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Ron Mc]

If you don't mind a little off topic historical perspective.  I collect and 
repair antique fly reels.  The US-made reels were all good designs that 
came off an assembly line, where manufacturing process design was first and 
foremost.  The Pflueger Medalist was the premiere American production fly 
reel for exactly 50 years.  During that time, there were a few bench-made 
reels (even from Pflueger - the Golden West) from makers such as the 
younger vomHofe, AL Walker, Otto Zwarg, Stan Bogdan.  The English reels of 
the same time, however, all came from artisan shops, where bench-made 
effort was first and foremost.  The same manufacturing techniques were 
applied to their bicycles, including the industry giant, Raleigh.  Smaller 
shops could focus on improved materials and lighter-weight frame design 
(lugs, etc.)
The great American bicycle brands are Columbia and Schwinn, and they were 
focused on manufacturing technology.  
IMO, it wasn't until the 1980s that benchmade bicycle frames became 
significant in the US.  

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:24:51 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> My vote goes to Mercian.  
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:04:12 AM UTC-6, Tim McNamara wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Dec 17, 2013, at 12:27 AM, Michael  wrote: 
>> > 
>> > Who made the USA's finest lugged, steel, frames back then and what were 
>> the prices like? 
>>
>> Albert Eisentraut was sort of the granddaddy of American frame builders, 
>> so perhaps him.  Tom Ritchey built fine lugged frames in his early days. 
>>  But most bikies wanting a great lugged frame ordered them from Europe 
>> (e.g., Cinelli) or the UK in those days (Taylor, Holdsworth, etc.).
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Ron Mc]

well yes, Mercian is in Mercia.  

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:32:06 AM UTC-6, Pudge wrote:
>
>  Isn’t Mercian British?
>
>  
>
> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *Ron Mc
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:25 AM
> *To:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
> *Cc:* tim...@bitstream.net 
> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?
>
>  
>  
> My vote goes to Mercian.  
>  
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:04:12 AM UTC-6, Tim McNamara wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 17, 2013, at 12:27 AM, Michael  wrote: 
> > 
> > Who made the USA's finest lugged, steel, frames back then and what were 
> the prices like? 
>
> Albert Eisentraut was sort of the granddaddy of American frame builders, 
> so perhaps him.  Tom Ritchey built fine lugged frames in his early days. 
>  But most bikies wanting a great lugged frame ordered them from Europe 
> (e.g., Cinelli) or the UK in those days (Taylor, Holdsworth, etc.).
>  
> -- 
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> .
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>  
> --
>  
> 
>
> To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you 
> that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice 
> contained in this message was not intended or written to be used, and 
> cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under 
> the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions 
> or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any 
> tax-related matters addressed herein.
> 
> 
>
> This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the 
> addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or 
> confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this 
> email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or 
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> 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any 
> email) and any printout thereof.
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[RBW] Re: New RBW Silver brand chainrings available!

[Ron Mc]

very cool indeed.  They look sharp.  I hope everybody has that Park tool in 
their toolkit.  http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/tl011.htm

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 12:32:45 AM UTC-6, Michael wrote:
>
> Very cool.
> Wouldn't it be cool if they had a whole line of "Silver" branded 
> components?
> Could deck out the whole frameset with complete Silver build.
>
> Wonder if they will only sell these rings from now on at RBW?
> Glad to know there is a place where I can buy rings for my favoritest 
> Sugino XD2 triple crankset whenever I will need them!
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/chr2.htm
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Eric Norris]

Which is, of course, the source of Mericun frames.

Eric N
www.CampyOnly.com
CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

> On Dec 17, 2013, at 6:24 AM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
> 
>> On 12/17/2013 08:44 AM, Ron Mc wrote:
>> well yes, Mercian is in Mercia. 
> 
> not to be confused with 'Merica
> 
>> 
>>> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:32:06 AM UTC-6, Pudge wrote:
>>> Isn’t Mercian British?
>>> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Eric Norris]

Schwinn was making beautiful, lugged Paramounts back in those days. Those bikes 
are very collectable and are still ridden today.

Eric N
www.CampyOnly.com
CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

> On Dec 16, 2013, at 10:27 PM, Michael  wrote:
> 
> Who made the USA's finest lugged, steel, frames back then and what were the 
> prices like?
> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/17/2013 08:44 AM, Ron Mc wrote:

well yes, Mercian is in Mercia.


not to be confused with 'Merica



On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:32:06 AM UTC-6, Pudge wrote:

Isn’t Mercian British?




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[RBW] Re: New RBW Silver brand chainrings available!

[Shoji Takahashi]

I'm waiting for the crankset to come out. I vaguely remember a mention in 
Blug or somewhere Riv that Mark A. was designing a Silver crank. (I hope it 
doesn't have that hidden chainring bolt!)



On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:50:40 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> very cool indeed.  They look sharp.  I hope everybody has that Park tool 
> in their toolkit.  http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/tl011.htm
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 12:32:45 AM UTC-6, Michael wrote:
>>
>> Very cool.
>> Wouldn't it be cool if they had a whole line of "Silver" branded 
>> components?
>> Could deck out the whole frameset with complete Silver build.
>>
>> Wonder if they will only sell these rings from now on at RBW?
>> Glad to know there is a place where I can buy rings for my favoritest 
>> Sugino XD2 triple crankset whenever I will need them!
>>
>> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/chr2.htm
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Ron Mc]

I agree Paramounts are gorgeous handmade frames, and is likely the pinnacle 
of American handmade bicycles during the time - and maybe the only example 
we'll come up with..  Does it count the same as the branded Waterford 
frames?  
But if you look at the flagships, Varsity vs. Grand Prix - there are two 
different manufacturing approaches from opposite sides of the pond to 
produce a bicycle in the 70s.  

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:30:50 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Schwinn was making beautiful, lugged Paramounts back in those days. Those 
> bikes are very collectable and are still ridden today.
>
> Eric N
> www.CampyOnly.com
> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>
> On Dec 16, 2013, at 10:27 PM, Michael > 
> wrote:
>
> Who made the USA's finest lugged, steel, frames back then and what were 
> the prices like?
>
> -- 
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>

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[RBW] Re: New RBW Silver brand chainrings available!

[Bill Lindsay]

Not Silver, S!LVER

I like it.  

On Monday, December 16, 2013 10:32:45 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote:
>
> Very cool.
> Wouldn't it be cool if they had a whole line of "Silver" branded 
> components?
> Could deck out the whole frameset with complete Silver build.
>
> Wonder if they will only sell these rings from now on at RBW?
> Glad to know there is a place where I can buy rings for my favoritest 
> Sugino XD2 triple crankset whenever I will need them!
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/chr2.htm
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Ron Mc]

King of Mercia frame goes back to at least 1956.  
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/builders/mercian2.html  IMO, probably 
the most Riv-esque frame of the period.  

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:51:20 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> I agree Paramounts are gorgeous handmade frames, and is likely the 
> pinnacle of American handmade bicycles during the time - and maybe the only 
> example we'll come up with..  Does it count the same as the branded 
> Waterford frames?  
> But if you look at the flagships, Varsity vs. Grand Prix - there are two 
> different manufacturing approaches from opposite sides of the pond to 
> produce a bicycle in the 70s.  
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:30:50 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
>>
>> Schwinn was making beautiful, lugged Paramounts back in those days. Those 
>> bikes are very collectable and are still ridden today.
>>
>> Eric N
>> www.CampyOnly.com
>> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
>> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>>
>> On Dec 16, 2013, at 10:27 PM, Michael  wrote:
>>
>> Who made the USA's finest lugged, steel, frames back then and what were 
>> the prices like?
>>
>> -- 
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>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Matthew J]

As I understand the history, Waterford is a direct successor from the 
factory originally started by Wastyn and Schwinn to build Paramounts.

The U.S. did not really have a Rivendell-like company in the 1960s. 
 Schwinn was still dominant at the time.  The Chicago facility made Schwinn 
branded bikes and many of the smaller name and department store bikes of 
that era.

There were a few individual builders making lugged frames, but no one 
selling comparable numbers to Riv.  Maybe the closest were the quality 
lugged frames Schwinn brought over from Japan.  Without googling, I do not 
recall off hand whether the Japanese Schwinns were available in the 1960s 
or 1970s.  

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:51:20 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> I agree Paramounts are gorgeous handmade frames, and is likely the 
> pinnacle of American handmade bicycles during the time - and maybe the only 
> example we'll come up with..  Does it count the same as the branded 
> Waterford frames?  
> But if you look at the flagships, Varsity vs. Grand Prix - there are two 
> different manufacturing approaches from opposite sides of the pond to 
> produce a bicycle in the 70s.  
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:30:50 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
>>
>> Schwinn was making beautiful, lugged Paramounts back in those days. Those 
>> bikes are very collectable and are still ridden today.
>>
>> Eric N
>> www.CampyOnly.com
>> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
>> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>>
>> On Dec 16, 2013, at 10:27 PM, Michael  wrote:
>>
>> Who made the USA's finest lugged, steel, frames back then and what were 
>> the prices like?
>>
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Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Montclair BobbyB]

I think you're right.. Schwinn (Paramount) was the only company (at least 
that I can recall) manufacturing lugged racing/touring frames in the US in 
the 60s.  There were other US brands in the mass-market (like Rollfast, 
Columbia, Huffy, etc), but I don't recall any of them focusing on racing or 
touring bikes as much as Schwinn.  The Varsity and Continental were 
introduced in 1960 (I owned a 1963 2-tone blue & white Conti up until a few 
years ago); these were fillet-brazed, heavy steel (not of the same quality 
as the Paramounts).   

I loved the Raleighs of the early to mid-70s (including the Competition, 
and of course the International & Professional), and even the earlier 
Record/Grand Prix.

Wonder why (back then) lugged bikes were so prevalent outside the US and 
not so popular here?  But then again, you never could have convinced me to 
buy anything other than a Varsity or Continental... to me (back then) 
everything else seemed *too cheap* (funny... )  

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:51:20 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> I agree Paramounts are gorgeous handmade frames, and is likely the 
> pinnacle of American handmade bicycles during the time - and maybe the only 
> example we'll come up with..  Does it count the same as the branded 
> Waterford frames?  
> But if you look at the flagships, Varsity vs. Grand Prix - there are two 
> different manufacturing approaches from opposite sides of the pond to 
> produce a bicycle in the 70s.  
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:30:50 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
>>
>> Schwinn was making beautiful, lugged Paramounts back in those days. Those 
>> bikes are very collectable and are still ridden today.
>>
>> Eric N
>> www.CampyOnly.com
>> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
>> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>>
>> On Dec 16, 2013, at 10:27 PM, Michael  wrote:
>>
>> Who made the USA's finest lugged, steel, frames back then and what were 
>> the prices like?
>>
>> -- 
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[RBW] Atlantis 53 or 54.5

[Richard Rios]

Hi All,

I ran across this Atlantis for sale while browsing the local Craig's List. 
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4225656821.html . The bike was 
originally listed as a 53.5 so I was uncertain as to what the actual frame 
size was since I could not find one listed as 53.5.  In any event I had a 
chance to speak with the owner who was exceedingly  friendly, and helpful 
about the bike.  Turns out the frame is actually a 53.  I was hoping for it 
to be the 54.5 as I am 5' 9" with a PBH of 82 which would be perfect for me 
according to Rivendell's current sizing standards.  So my questions is any 
one out there my size or thereabouts have any experience with the 53cm 
frame? To small or just right perhaps?  If so it would be great to hear 
about your experience on the 53.  I have been checking around and noticed 
that at one point in time the Atlantis was not listed as being made in 54.5 
frame size and the 53 was recommended for someone my size. (wring hands)  !)


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Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Ron Mc]

Bobby, I tried to answer that above with my fishing reel analogy.  Artisan 
shops were production in the UK, while assembly lines were production in 
the US.  


  

As late as the '50s, Hardy reels were stamped inside with the artisan's 
initials.  


On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 10:13:29 AM UTC-6, Montclair BobbyB wrote:
>
> I think you're right.. Schwinn (Paramount) was the only company (at least 
> that I can recall) manufacturing lugged racing/touring frames in the US in 
> the 60s.  There were other US brands in the mass-market (like Rollfast, 
> Columbia, Huffy, etc), but I don't recall any of them focusing on racing or 
> touring bikes as much as Schwinn.  The Varsity and Continental were 
> introduced in 1960 (I owned a 1963 2-tone blue & white Conti up until a few 
> years ago); these were fillet-brazed, heavy steel (not of the same quality 
> as the Paramounts).   
>
> I loved the Raleighs of the early to mid-70s (including the Competition, 
> and of course the International & Professional), and even the earlier 
> Record/Grand Prix.
>
> Wonder why (back then) lugged bikes were so prevalent outside the US and 
> not so popular here?  But then again, you never could have convinced me to 
> buy anything other than a Varsity or Continental... to me (back then) 
> everything else seemed *too cheap* (funny... )  
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:51:20 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>> I agree Paramounts are gorgeous handmade frames, and is likely the 
>> pinnacle of American handmade bicycles during the time - and maybe the only 
>> example we'll come up with..  Does it count the same as the branded 
>> Waterford frames?  
>> But if you look at the flagships, Varsity vs. Grand Prix - there are two 
>> different manufacturing approaches from opposite sides of the pond to 
>> produce a bicycle in the 70s.  
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:30:50 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
>>>
>>> Schwinn was making beautiful, lugged Paramounts back in those days. 
>>> Those bikes are very collectable and are still ridden today.
>>>
>>> Eric N
>>> www.CampyOnly.com
>>> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
>>> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>>>
>>> On Dec 16, 2013, at 10:27 PM, Michael  wrote:
>>>
>>> Who made the USA's finest lugged, steel, frames back then and what were 
>>> the prices like?
>>>
>>> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Ron Mc]

Matthew, there was a very trick '73 (Japanese) World Voyager posted on the 
CABE yesterday  
http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?51177-1973-Schwinn-World-Voyageur

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:25:50 AM UTC-6, Matthew J wrote:
>
> As I understand the history, Waterford is a direct successor from the 
> factory originally started by Wastyn and Schwinn to build Paramounts.
>
> The U.S. did not really have a Rivendell-like company in the 1960s. 
>  Schwinn was still dominant at the time.  The Chicago facility made Schwinn 
> branded bikes and many of the smaller name and department store bikes of 
> that era.
>
> There were a few individual builders making lugged frames, but no one 
> selling comparable numbers to Riv.  Maybe the closest were the quality 
> lugged frames Schwinn brought over from Japan.  Without googling, I do not 
> recall off hand whether the Japanese Schwinns were available in the 1960s 
> or 1970s.  
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:51:20 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>> I agree Paramounts are gorgeous handmade frames, and is likely the 
>> pinnacle of American handmade bicycles during the time - and maybe the only 
>> example we'll come up with..  Does it count the same as the branded 
>> Waterford frames?  
>> But if you look at the flagships, Varsity vs. Grand Prix - there are two 
>> different manufacturing approaches from opposite sides of the pond to 
>> produce a bicycle in the 70s.  
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:30:50 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
>>>
>>> Schwinn was making beautiful, lugged Paramounts back in those days. 
>>> Those bikes are very collectable and are still ridden today.
>>>
>>> Eric N
>>> www.CampyOnly.com
>>> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
>>> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>>>
>>> On Dec 16, 2013, at 10:27 PM, Michael  wrote:
>>>
>>> Who made the USA's finest lugged, steel, frames back then and what were 
>>> the prices like?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Matthew J]

Thanks Ron.  IMO those Japanese Schwinns were as close as one would find to 
the Riv model in the U.S. at the time. The owner did a great job on the 
restoration too.

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 10:46:19 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> Matthew, there was a very trick '73 (Japanese) World Voyager posted on the 
> CABE yesterday  
> http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?51177-1973-Schwinn-World-Voyageur
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:25:50 AM UTC-6, Matthew J wrote:
>>
>> As I understand the history, Waterford is a direct successor from the 
>> factory originally started by Wastyn and Schwinn to build Paramounts.
>>
>> The U.S. did not really have a Rivendell-like company in the 1960s. 
>>  Schwinn was still dominant at the time.  The Chicago facility made Schwinn 
>> branded bikes and many of the smaller name and department store bikes of 
>> that era.
>>
>> There were a few individual builders making lugged frames, but no one 
>> selling comparable numbers to Riv.  Maybe the closest were the quality 
>> lugged frames Schwinn brought over from Japan.  Without googling, I do not 
>> recall off hand whether the Japanese Schwinns were available in the 1960s 
>> or 1970s.  
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:51:20 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree Paramounts are gorgeous handmade frames, and is likely the 
>>> pinnacle of American handmade bicycles during the time - and maybe the only 
>>> example we'll come up with..  Does it count the same as the branded 
>>> Waterford frames?  
>>> But if you look at the flagships, Varsity vs. Grand Prix - there are two 
>>> different manufacturing approaches from opposite sides of the pond to 
>>> produce a bicycle in the 70s.  
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:30:50 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:

 Schwinn was making beautiful, lugged Paramounts back in those days. 
 Those bikes are very collectable and are still ridden today.

 Eric N
 www.CampyOnly.com
 CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
 Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

 On Dec 16, 2013, at 10:27 PM, Michael  wrote:

 Who made the USA's finest lugged, steel, frames back then and what were 
 the prices like?

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[RBW] Re: New RBW Silver brand chainrings available!

[Michael]

>
> That would be cool if they have a crankset with the "RBW" built into it 
> like the old Raleighs had the goosenecks, or whatever bird that was...
>
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/70237737@N00/8955519536/in/set-72157633937039591

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Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/17/2013 11:27 AM, Ron Mc wrote:
Bobby, I tried to answer that above with my fishing reel analogy. 
 Artisan shops were production in the UK, while assembly lines were 
production in the US.


I'm pretty sure that most Raleigh bicycle production in the UK qualified 
as "assembly line" rather than "artisan shop" and Raleigh with all its 
associated brand names produced most of the bicycles there.  They did 
have some artisan production, of course, such as the Record Ace and 
Carlton models.





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[RBW] Re: Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Jim M.]

On Monday, December 16, 2013 10:27:10 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote:
>
> Who made the USA's finest lugged, steel, frames back then and what were 
> the prices like?
>

I think that's a different question than who was Rivendell in the '60s. 
Rivendell's are great frames (I have 3), but I'd say a Bruce Gordon or a 
Peter Weigle is a finer, USA-made lugged steel frame.

A friend's father owned a Schwinn store in the '60s, and so my eyes turned 
towards the Paramount as the ultimate bike. In 1969, a fully equipped 
Paramount (touring or racing) cost $280. In comparison, a Continental cost 
$90. 

jim m
wc ca

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Re: [RBW] Re: New RBW Silver brand chainrings available!

[Peter Morgano]

Nowadays that would most likely mean cnc machining which would probably
make it cost prohibitive. Cool idea but does it mean you only get the one
chain ring.?
On Dec 17, 2013 12:19 PM, "Michael"  wrote:

> That would be cool if they have a crankset with the "RBW" built into it
>> like the old Raleighs had the goosenecks, or whatever bird that was...
>>
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/70237737@N00/8955519536/in/set-72157633937039591
>
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Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/17/2013 10:25 AM, Matthew J wrote:
Without googling, I do not recall off hand whether the Japanese 
Schwinns were available in the 1960s or 1970s.


1970s after 1970.  Images of the 1960-1970 Schwinn catalogs are on-line 
here: http://waterfordbikes.com/SchwinnCat/flschwinn_1961_1970/


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Re: [RBW] Re: Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/17/2013 12:22 PM, Jim M. wrote:

On Monday, December 16, 2013 10:27:10 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote:

Who made the USA's finest lugged, steel, frames back then and what
were the prices like?


I think that's a different question than who was Rivendell in the 
'60s. Rivendell's are great frames (I have 3), but I'd say a Bruce 
Gordon or a Peter Weigle is a finer, USA-made lugged steel frame.


But the question isn't just who are among the best American frame 
builders today; it's in the 1960s.  And in the 1960s, Peter Weigle had 
yet to move to England, along with Richard Sachs, to learn how to build 
frames.  As was mentioned, Albert Eisentraut does date to that period, 
having begun in 1959.




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[RBW] Re: New RBW Silver brand chainrings available!

[Brewster Fong]

On Monday, December 16, 2013 10:32:45 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote: 
>
>  Very cool.
>  Wouldn't it be cool if they had a whole line of "Silver" branded 
> components?
> Could deck out the whole frameset with complete Silver build.
>
> Wonder if they will only sell these rings from now on at RBW?
> Glad to know there is a place where I can buy rings for my favoritest 
> Sugino XD2 triple crankset whenever I will need them!
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/chr2.htm
>
>  
What's interesting is the weird tooth counts being offered - 45, 43, 35?!  
They're made in the USA, they're probably made by Vuelta using the Silver 
(or S!lver brand name).  For the  110bcd, if they wanted to be different, 
Riv should have had one made in 33t like TA!  Good Luck! 
 

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RE: [RBW] Re: New RBW Silver brand chainrings available!

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Could be done - there's a guy doing limited edition chainrings in Australia, I 
assume by CNC:http://bespokechainrings.com/

Here's one of his rings on a Bombadil:  
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/11052561793/

And closer up:  
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/11050679523/in/photostream/

They're not cheap, unsurprisingly.  He also does custom chainrings.

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 12:19 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: New RBW Silver brand chainrings available!

That would be cool if they have a crankset with the "RBW" built into it like 
the old Raleighs had the goosenecks, or whatever bird that was...
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/70237737@N00/8955519536/in/set-72157633937039591
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Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Bill Lindsay]

Steve,

You mean like this?

Sat Night and Sun Morning  

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:20:33 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> On 12/17/2013 11:27 AM, Ron Mc wrote: 
> > Bobby, I tried to answer that above with my fishing reel analogy. 
> >  Artisan shops were production in the UK, while assembly lines were 
> > production in the US. 
>
> I'm pretty sure that most Raleigh bicycle production in the UK qualified 
> as "assembly line" rather than "artisan shop" and Raleigh with all its 
> associated brand names produced most of the bicycles there.  They did 
> have some artisan production, of course, such as the Record Ace and 
> Carlton models. 
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Jim M.]

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:40:25 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>  On 12/17/2013 12:22 PM, Jim M. wrote:
>
> But the question isn't just who are among the best American frame builders 
> today; it's in the 1960s.  And in the 1960s, Peter Weigle had yet to move 
> to England, along with Richard Sachs, to learn how to build frames.  As was 
> mentioned, Albert Eisentraut does date to that period, having begun in 
> 1959.  
>
>
Yes, Steve, I agree with you. I'm just pointing out the difference between 
the questions asked, using an example from today.

I have an Eisentraut, too, though from the '70s. From what I know of his 
history, he built race frames almost exclusively. He was probably the best 
American frame builder of the day, but I don't see him as compararble to 
Riv.

jim m
wc ca

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Re: [RBW] Re: Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Joe Bunik]

(Mainstream) USA production heritage will inevitably be filtered
through the lens of Schwinn - Eisentraut started out at the famous
Oscar Wastyn (Schwinn) shop, for example.

Later during the 1970's, upstart framebuilders (like Ritchey, or many
MTB pioneers, or even niche builders like Sam Braxton) should be taken
into consideration as precursors, foreshadows, or even forgotten
premonitions of what all we now see re-emerging in the marketplace,
the "bike boom" of our generation, the present-day "new Golden Age".

=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA

On 12/17/13, Jim M.  wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:40:25 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>
>>  On 12/17/2013 12:22 PM, Jim M. wrote:
>>
>> But the question isn't just who are among the best American frame builders
>>
>> today; it's in the 1960s.  And in the 1960s, Peter Weigle had yet to move
>>
>> to England, along with Richard Sachs, to learn how to build frames.  As
>> was
>> mentioned, Albert Eisentraut does date to that period, having begun in
>> 1959.
>>
>>
> Yes, Steve, I agree with you. I'm just pointing out the difference between
> the questions asked, using an example from today.
>
> I have an Eisentraut, too, though from the '70s. From what I know of his
> history, he built race frames almost exclusively. He was probably the best
> American frame builder of the day, but I don't see him as compararble to
> Riv.
>
> jim m
> wc ca
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Jim M.]

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 10:40:13 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>  "Who was RBW back in the 1960's?"  
>

Maybe John Finley Scott: 
http://bicycledesign.net/2008/08/way-ahead-of-his-time/  and his woodsie 
bike:

: [image: [woodsie.jpg]]

Though he never went into production with it.

jim m
wc ca

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[RBW] Re: FS: SlickerSack & Platrack

[hsmitham]

Deacon,

Looks like Sheila Moon makes em.

~Hugh

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 4:40:58 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Allan,
>
> Who makes your tweed knickers/breeches?
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Monday, December 16, 2013 11:36:57 PM UTC-7, Allan in Portland wrote:
>>
>> Tweed shorts are spoken for.
>>
>> On Monday, December 16, 2013 10:03:08 PM UTC-8, Allan in Portland wrote:
>>>
>>> Bump. With pictures this time. And a new price. $260, or make me an 
>>> offer. But be quick. I'm leaving town Thursday. Thursday *morning* is the 
>>> last day I'll be able to ship before January 2014.
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47116230@N00/sets/72157631920243259/
>>>
>>> Also, the tweed cycling shorts are still available. Also, new w/ tags. 
>>> Pre-Christmas blow-out. $50 for two pair. They're nice. I have them in a 
>>> knee length knicker for myself, which I wear year-round, adding long-johns 
>>> in the winter. Love 'em. I reckon almost 1000 miles and not a hint of wear 
>>> in the seat.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Allan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:02:31 AM UTC-8, Allan in Portland wrote:

 Hello,

 Green canvas Slickersack, NIB. Straps, pads, dividers, product 
 registration card... the whole nine yards.
 Platrack is used, but the extra long mounting struts that go with it 
 are not.

 $300 shipped CONUS. Paypal preferred.

 The perfect gift for that certain hard-to-buy-for loved one on your 
 Christmas list. (Assuming you're the hard-to-buy-for loved one, just 
 bounce 
 this email to your loved, they'll get the hint. :) )

 I'll be uploading photos shortly, but it's NIB so not exactly anything 
 unique to show, that isn't already known.

 Thanks,
 -Allan

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/17/2013 01:23 PM, Jim M. wrote:
I have an Eisentraut, too, though from the '70s. From what I know of 
his history, he built race frames almost exclusively. He was probably 
the best American frame builder of the day, but I don't see him as 
compararble to Riv.


The fact of race vs touring frames is only one of many differences. He 
was and is a hands-on builder; Rivendell never was and isn't now.  And 
frames is but a small part of Rivendell's business; most of it, I 
believe, is parts and clothing.  Eisentraut never sold bees wax or soap.



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[RBW] Re: FS: SlickerSack & Platrack

[Deacon Patrick]

You got a link, Hugh? I can't find anything but spandex for women by Sheila 
Moon.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 11:43:51 AM UTC-7, hsmitham wrote:
>
> Deacon,
>
> Looks like Sheila Moon makes em.
>
> ~Hugh
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 4:40:58 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> Allan,
>>
>> Who makes your tweed knickers/breeches?
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Monday, December 16, 2013 11:36:57 PM UTC-7, Allan in Portland wrote:
>>>
>>> Tweed shorts are spoken for.
>>>
>>> On Monday, December 16, 2013 10:03:08 PM UTC-8, Allan in Portland wrote:

 Bump. With pictures this time. And a new price. $260, or make me an 
 offer. But be quick. I'm leaving town Thursday. Thursday *morning* is the 
 last day I'll be able to ship before January 2014.

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/47116230@N00/sets/72157631920243259/

 Also, the tweed cycling shorts are still available. Also, new w/ tags. 
 Pre-Christmas blow-out. $50 for two pair. They're nice. I have them in a 
 knee length knicker for myself, which I wear year-round, adding long-johns 
 in the winter. Love 'em. I reckon almost 1000 miles and not a hint of wear 
 in the seat.

 Cheers,
 -Allan


 On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:02:31 AM UTC-8, Allan in Portland 
 wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Green canvas Slickersack, NIB. Straps, pads, dividers, product 
> registration card... the whole nine yards.
> Platrack is used, but the extra long mounting struts that go with it 
> are not.
>
> $300 shipped CONUS. Paypal preferred.
>
> The perfect gift for that certain hard-to-buy-for loved one on your 
> Christmas list. (Assuming you're the hard-to-buy-for loved one, just 
> bounce 
> this email to your loved, they'll get the hint. :) )
>
> I'll be uploading photos shortly, but it's NIB so not exactly anything 
> unique to show, that isn't already known.
>
> Thanks,
> -Allan
>


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Re: [RBW] Re: Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Joe Bunik]

Aah! I had always thought John Finley Scott was a Brit.

Here's an excellent Wastyn mixte (1948):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/77646587@N00/5688693545/

=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA

On 12/17/13, Jim M.  wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 10:40:13 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>  "Who was RBW back in the 1960's?"
>>
>
> Maybe John Finley Scott:
> http://bicycledesign.net/2008/08/way-ahead-of-his-time/  and his woodsie
> bike:
>
> : [image: [woodsie.jpg]]
>
> Though he never went into production with it.
>
> jim m
> wc ca
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Matthew J]

> In 1964 I bought a Dunelt in a bike shop in Buffalo NY. 

Good point.  Some bike shops did sell European and even Japanese offerings. 
 (FWIW, I have a couple of Dunelt head badges in my collection.

>(and Tom is legendary for his fitting skills)  

The best.  Every time I get on my Kellogg I marvel at how perfect it is.

> By 1971 there was the P15, a (light) touring bike equipped with a 
Campagnolo triple crank.  I ordered mine in July, 1971.

Reckon that was quite a bike.

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis 53 or 54.5

[Bill Lindsay]

What did the seller say?  The listing says the seller would be willing to 
trade for a bigger size.  Is the seller about your height/pbh?  What's the 
seat height in the picture?  If you would have to raise it more than the 
seller already has it, I'd say don't do it.  If you'd be lowering it, then 
maybe

Bill

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:14:33 AM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I ran across this Atlantis for sale while browsing the local Craig's List. 
> http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4225656821.html . The bike was 
> originally listed as a 53.5 so I was uncertain as to what the actual frame 
> size was since I could not find one listed as 53.5.  In any event I had a 
> chance to speak with the owner who was exceedingly  friendly, and helpful 
> about the bike.  Turns out the frame is actually a 53.  I was hoping for it 
> to be the 54.5 as I am 5' 9" with a PBH of 82 which would be perfect for me 
> according to Rivendell's current sizing standards.  So my questions is any 
> one out there my size or thereabouts have any experience with the 53cm 
> frame? To small or just right perhaps?  If so it would be great to hear 
> about your experience on the 53.  I have been checking around and noticed 
> that at one point in time the Atlantis was not listed as being made in 54.5 
> frame size and the 53 was recommended for someone my size. (wring hands)  !)
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis 53 or 54.5

[Richard Rios]

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:14:33 AM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I ran across this Atlantis for sale while browsing the local Craig's List. 
> http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4225656821.html . The bike was 
> originally listed as a 53.5 so I was uncertain as to what the actual frame 
> size was since I could not find one listed as 53.5.  In any event I had a 
> chance to speak with the owner who was exceedingly  friendly, and helpful 
> about the bike.  Turns out the frame is actually a 53.  I was hoping for it 
> to be the 54.5 as I am 5' 9" with a PBH of 82 which would be perfect for me 
> according to Rivendell's current sizing standards.  So my questions is any 
> one out there my size or thereabouts have any experience with the 53cm 
> frame? To small or just right perhaps?  If so it would be great to hear 
> about your experience on the 53.  I have been checking around and noticed 
> that at one point in time the Atlantis was not listed as being made in 54.5 
> frame size and the 53 was recommended for someone my size. (wring hands)  !)
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis 53 or 54.5

[hsmitham]

Bill,

The bike is my Brother's. He picked it up on a spur of the moment from a 
fellow in San Diego. He has a PBH of 85 cm so it's just a bit too small for 
him. My other Brother Andrew borrowed it for a day he's 5'9" with a PBH 
somewhere around 82 cm and it seemed to fit well. Bruce would be better 
suited on a 56 cm. Also the drive is all new.

~Hugh

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 11:05:06 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> What did the seller say?  The listing says the seller would be willing to 
> trade for a bigger size.  Is the seller about your height/pbh?  What's the 
> seat height in the picture?  If you would have to raise it more than the 
> seller already has it, I'd say don't do it.  If you'd be lowering it, then 
> maybe
>
> Bill
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:14:33 AM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I ran across this Atlantis for sale while browsing the local Craig's 
>> List. http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4225656821.html . The 
>> bike was originally listed as a 53.5 so I was uncertain as to what the 
>> actual frame size was since I could not find one listed as 53.5.  In any 
>> event I had a chance to speak with the owner who was exceedingly  friendly, 
>> and helpful about the bike.  Turns out the frame is actually a 53.  I was 
>> hoping for it to be the 54.5 as I am 5' 9" with a PBH of 82 which would be 
>> perfect for me according to Rivendell's current sizing standards.  So my 
>> questions is any one out there my size or thereabouts have any experience 
>> with the 53cm frame? To small or just right perhaps?  If so it would be 
>> great to hear about your experience on the 53.  I have been checking around 
>> and noticed that at one point in time the Atlantis was not listed as being 
>> made in 54.5 frame size and the 53 was recommended for someone my size. 
>> (wring hands)  !)
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Brooks leather bar tape - care & feeding tips?

[Tim Gavin]

Hello again, Rivsters.

I picked up some Brooks leather bar tape for my girlfriend's xmas gift, a
Soma San Marcos.  It will match the honey B17S and look beautiful with the
pearly blue paint.  (She knows she's getting the San Marcos; it's in her
living room as we finish building it.  But she has no clue about the saddle
and tape.)

I've never used leather tape, but I'm comfortable with taking care of my
Brooks saddles.

What are your tips for keeping the leather bar wrap in good condition?

I plan on rubbing some Obenauf's into the tape before I wrap it, to ensure
complete coverage.  Is this a good idea?

Then I plan on rubbing in more Obenauf's periodically as the leather dries
out.

Thanks for your advice.

Tim Gavin
Cedar Rapids, IA

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis 53 or 54.5

[dougP]

Richard:

Likely you can easily fit more than one frame size.  Rivendell has 
published a couple of charts over the years and there is usually a bit of 
overlap in frame sizes, and their recommendations tend to larger sizes.  
Definitely worth giving this one a serious look and take your wrenches so 
you can adjust to fit.  

dougP (58 cm Atlantis)

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:14:33 AM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I ran across this Atlantis for sale while browsing the local Craig's List. 
> http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4225656821.html . The bike was 
> originally listed as a 53.5 so I was uncertain as to what the actual frame 
> size was since I could not find one listed as 53.5.  In any event I had a 
> chance to speak with the owner who was exceedingly  friendly, and helpful 
> about the bike.  Turns out the frame is actually a 53.  I was hoping for it 
> to be the 54.5 as I am 5' 9" with a PBH of 82 which would be perfect for me 
> according to Rivendell's current sizing standards.  So my questions is any 
> one out there my size or thereabouts have any experience with the 53cm 
> frame? To small or just right perhaps?  If so it would be great to hear 
> about your experience on the 53.  I have been checking around and noticed 
> that at one point in time the Atlantis was not listed as being made in 54.5 
> frame size and the 53 was recommended for someone my size. (wring hands)  !)
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/17/2013 01:06 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:

Steve,

You mean like this?

Sat Night and Sun Morning 


No, like this  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOE0DbfWqyo


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[RBW] Re: Atlantis 53 or 54.5

[Bill Lindsay]

If the seatheight in the photos is for a pbh 85 dude, then a pbh 82 dude 
should be quite happy on it.  Go for it!  What's the worst that could 
happen?

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 12:42:55 PM UTC-8, hsmitham wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> The bike is my Brother's. He picked it up on a spur of the moment from a 
> fellow in San Diego. He has a PBH of 85 cm so it's just a bit too small for 
> him. My other Brother Andrew borrowed it for a day he's 5'9" with a PBH 
> somewhere around 82 cm and it seemed to fit well. Bruce would be better 
> suited on a 56 cm. Also the drive is all new.
>
> ~Hugh
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 11:05:06 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> What did the seller say?  The listing says the seller would be willing to 
>> trade for a bigger size.  Is the seller about your height/pbh?  What's the 
>> seat height in the picture?  If you would have to raise it more than the 
>> seller already has it, I'd say don't do it.  If you'd be lowering it, then 
>> maybe
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:14:33 AM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I ran across this Atlantis for sale while browsing the local Craig's 
>>> List. http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4225656821.html . The 
>>> bike was originally listed as a 53.5 so I was uncertain as to what the 
>>> actual frame size was since I could not find one listed as 53.5.  In any 
>>> event I had a chance to speak with the owner who was exceedingly  friendly, 
>>> and helpful about the bike.  Turns out the frame is actually a 53.  I was 
>>> hoping for it to be the 54.5 as I am 5' 9" with a PBH of 82 which would be 
>>> perfect for me according to Rivendell's current sizing standards.  So my 
>>> questions is any one out there my size or thereabouts have any experience 
>>> with the 53cm frame? To small or just right perhaps?  If so it would be 
>>> great to hear about your experience on the 53.  I have been checking around 
>>> and noticed that at one point in time the Atlantis was not listed as being 
>>> made in 54.5 frame size and the 53 was recommended for someone my size. 
>>> (wring hands)  !)
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: What deals they were!

[Garth]

On Monday, December 16, 2013 1:03:14 PM UTC-5, Brewster Fong wrote:
>
>
> However, the thing with getting a custom Rivendell is you're buying not 
> just a beautiful custom steel frame, but their philosophy.  You're getting 
> a Grant-designed bike with his specific geometry for YOU. Yes, others can 
> make a "sport-touring" bike, but it won't necessarily ride like a 
> custom Riv. If you want a custom Riv, then that's what you get! Good Luck!
>  
>
>
I own a Bomba and a Franklin custom "sport touring " frame made to my 
specifications and they're both ride like a dream.  They're just different. 
When I'm on the Bomba for awhile I think  
"what a great ride" .  When I'm on the Franklin I think  "what a great 
ride"  ! The only frame I've ridden that I thought was really poor, was 
the '83 Stumpjumper I bought as new back in the day.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: What deals they were!

[Hiawatha Cyclery]

I don't believe the explanation for the price increases is as simple as 
going from Japan to US manufacture, with currency exchanges, and such. It 
looks like the Atlantis and some of Riv's other non-Taiwan frames are now a 
made-to-order kinda thing, when before it was produced in some quantity 
(guessing 100-200 frames per order?). If you call Waterford and ask them to 
set up to cut tubes and adjust jigs, etc, for one or two or even ten 
frames, the set-up charge is divided over one or two or ten frames. 
Waterford isn't going to want to go to the trouble for such a small order, 
so they'll charge accordingly. Place an order for a production run of 50 or 
100 frames, and it's a different story. 

On Saturday, December 14, 2013 7:27:27 PM UTC-6, Minh wrote:
>
> Well there have been some notable changes in manufacturing of those 
> frames, whereas the original Atlantis frames were made in Japan (when the 
> YEN exchange rate was much more favorable), now you get a frame made in the 
> US at Waterford.  
>
> Same with the Bombas, the price went up as the person that made them kept 
> changing.
>
> Whether that's worth the additional is a personal decision, but there have 
> been manufacturing changes.  It's a moot debate anyway, not like you can go 
> back in time and buy one of the original ones new today :)
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Jim Cloud]

The market for quality lugged bicycle framed bicycles in the U.S. for 
adults was virtually non-existent before the U.S. "Bike Boom" that began in 
the early 1970's.  What little demand existed was more than accommodated by 
the Schwinn Paramount for domestic buyers and imports from England, France 
and Italy.  Frank Berto has previously made some rather persuasive analyses 
that the U.S. "Bike Boom" was born from youths who had cut their teeth on 
Schwinn's very popular youth bikes like the ubiquitous "Sting-Ray".

Jim Cloud

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:13:29 AM UTC-7, Montclair BobbyB wrote:
>
> I think you're right.. Schwinn (Paramount) was the only company (at least 
> that I can recall) manufacturing lugged racing/touring frames in the US in 
> the 60s.  There were other US brands in the mass-market (like Rollfast, 
> Columbia, Huffy, etc), but I don't recall any of them focusing on racing or 
> touring bikes as much as Schwinn.  The Varsity and Continental were 
> introduced in 1960 (I owned a 1963 2-tone blue & white Conti up until a few 
> years ago); these were fillet-brazed, heavy steel (not of the same quality 
> as the Paramounts).   
>
> I loved the Raleighs of the early to mid-70s (including the Competition, 
> and of course the International & Professional), and even the earlier 
> Record/Grand Prix.
>
> Wonder why (back then) lugged bikes were so prevalent outside the US and 
> not so popular here?  But then again, you never could have convinced me to 
> buy anything other than a Varsity or Continental... to me (back then) 
> everything else seemed *too cheap* (funny... )  
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:51:20 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>> I agree Paramounts are gorgeous handmade frames, and is likely the 
>> pinnacle of American handmade bicycles during the time - and maybe the only 
>> example we'll come up with..  Does it count the same as the branded 
>> Waterford frames?  
>> But if you look at the flagships, Varsity vs. Grand Prix - there are two 
>> different manufacturing approaches from opposite sides of the pond to 
>> produce a bicycle in the 70s.  
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:30:50 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
>>>
>>> Schwinn was making beautiful, lugged Paramounts back in those days. 
>>> Those bikes are very collectable and are still ridden today.
>>>
>>> Eric N
>>> www.CampyOnly.com
>>> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
>>> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>>>
>>> On Dec 16, 2013, at 10:27 PM, Michael  wrote:
>>>
>>> Who made the USA's finest lugged, steel, frames back then and what were 
>>> the prices like?
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis 53 or 54.5

[Tim Gavin]

The 53 Atlantis has a 55cm top tube.  That works in your favor, since you
want it to fit a little bigger.  The 54.5 would only gain you 1cm in the
top tube (56cm).  That is easily equalized with a longer reach stem or a
bit of seat setback.

Frame geometry link on this page:  http://www.rivbike.com/category-s/788.htm


On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:58 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Richard, I find that seattube length is practically meaningless beyond my
> ability to lean the bike over and get a leg over. It's all in the toptube,
> which is also a bit theoretical until you factor in stem and bar reach. If
> you think you can get saddle-to-bar-reach to work for you on that frame, go
> for it.
>
> Joe Bernard
> Vallejo, CA.
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:14:33 AM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I ran across this Atlantis for sale while browsing the local Craig's
>> List. http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4225656821.html . The
>> bike was originally listed as a 53.5 so I was uncertain as to what the
>> actual frame size was since I could not find one listed as 53.5.  In any
>> event I had a chance to speak with the owner who was exceedingly  friendly,
>> and helpful about the bike.  Turns out the frame is actually a 53.  I was
>> hoping for it to be the 54.5 as I am 5' 9" with a PBH of 82 which would be
>> perfect for me according to Rivendell's current sizing standards.  So my
>> questions is any one out there my size or thereabouts have any experience
>> with the 53cm frame? To small or just right perhaps?  If so it would be
>> great to hear about your experience on the 53.  I have been checking around
>> and noticed that at one point in time the Atlantis was not listed as being
>> made in 54.5 frame size and the 53 was recommended for someone my size.
>> (wring hands)  !)
>>
>>
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[RBW] Re: New RBW Silver brand chainrings available!

[dougP]

Shoji noted "(I hope it doesn't have that hidden chainring bolt!)"

+1 on that!  I fancy myself good at figuring out mechanical stuff, but have 
always been baffled at whatever logic (or lack thereof) went into that 
idea.  I have a Deore crankset on another bike and when I look at the 
Sugino on my Atlantis, I can't see that it has any more visual appeal, cool 
factor or other sexiness to justify the hassle factor of that hidden bolt.  
Granted, chainrings don't need to be dealt with often but when they do, 
it's so much easier when the bolts can be accessed easily.  

dougP

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 6:51:49 AM UTC-8, Shoji Takahashi wrote:
>
> I'm waiting for the crankset to come out. I vaguely remember a mention in 
> Blug or somewhere Riv that Mark A. was designing a Silver crank. (I hope it 
> doesn't have that hidden chainring bolt!)
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:50:40 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>> very cool indeed.  They look sharp.  I hope everybody has that Park tool 
>> in their toolkit.  http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/tl011.htm
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 12:32:45 AM UTC-6, Michael wrote:
>>>
>>> Very cool.
>>> Wouldn't it be cool if they had a whole line of "Silver" branded 
>>> components?
>>> Could deck out the whole frameset with complete Silver build.
>>>
>>> Wonder if they will only sell these rings from now on at RBW?
>>> Glad to know there is a place where I can buy rings for my favoritest 
>>> Sugino XD2 triple crankset whenever I will need them!
>>>
>>> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/chr2.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis 53 or 54.5

[Richard Rios]

Thank you all for the feedback.  Sounds like I am in the ball park :).  I 
would be lowering the seat post for sure.  The current owner is quite a bit 
taller than I am with a longer PBH which is why he is looking for a bicycle 
with a bigger frame.  A test ride sounds like it is in order.  Again thank 
you all for the input it is appreciated! I apologize if this post ends up 
in the wrong place and it looks like I am responding to myself.  Still in 
the process of figuring things out... 

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:14:33 AM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I ran across this Atlantis for sale while browsing the local Craig's List. 
> http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4225656821.html . The bike was 
> originally listed as a 53.5 so I was uncertain as to what the actual frame 
> size was since I could not find one listed as 53.5.  In any event I had a 
> chance to speak with the owner who was exceedingly  friendly, and helpful 
> about the bike.  Turns out the frame is actually a 53.  I was hoping for it 
> to be the 54.5 as I am 5' 9" with a PBH of 82 which would be perfect for me 
> according to Rivendell's current sizing standards.  So my questions is any 
> one out there my size or thereabouts have any experience with the 53cm 
> frame? To small or just right perhaps?  If so it would be great to hear 
> about your experience on the 53.  I have been checking around and noticed 
> that at one point in time the Atlantis was not listed as being made in 54.5 
> frame size and the 53 was recommended for someone my size. (wring hands)  !)
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Bill Lindsay]

I agree with Jim M.  The title of the OP is "Who was RBW back in the 
1960's?"  Then the post itself asks who made the finest lugged steel frames 
in the USA in the 1960's.  Those are two questions.  The implication is 
that they are equivalent questions, but I agree with Jim M in pointing out 
that they are VERY different from one another.  The implication of the OP 
is that RBW today is the finest maker of lugged steel frames in America, 
which is absurd, mainly because RBW doesn't make any frames, but also 
because so few Rivendells are made in America.  Mark Nobillette makes some 
of the finer frames in America and he happens to make some custom 
Rivendells, but Mark Nobillette is not RBW.  RBW certainly makes some very 
fine bicycle designs (I have 3).  RBW is almost certainly the most 
influential brand in terms of influence per bike sold.  The really 
underrated work that Riv does is in lug design, IMO.  In order to answer 
the question of who was RBW in the 1960s, you'd have to define who is RBW 
in the 2010s.  If you want to talk about the very best framebuilders of 
both eras, that's very cool, but it has a lot less to do with RBW.  

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 10:23:42 AM UTC-8, Jim M. wrote:
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:40:25 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>
>>  On 12/17/2013 12:22 PM, Jim M. wrote:
>>
>> But the question isn't just who are among the best American frame 
>> builders today; it's in the 1960s.  And in the 1960s, Peter Weigle had yet 
>> to move to England, along with Richard Sachs, to learn how to build 
>> frames.  As was mentioned, Albert Eisentraut does date to that period, 
>> having begun in 1959.  
>>
>>
> Yes, Steve, I agree with you. I'm just pointing out the difference between 
> the questions asked, using an example from today.
>
> I have an Eisentraut, too, though from the '70s. From what I know of his 
> history, he built race frames almost exclusively. He was probably the best 
> American frame builder of the day, but I don't see him as compararble to 
> Riv.
>
> jim m
> wc ca
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Matthew J]

I have an Eisentraut, too, though from the '70s. From what I know of his 
history, he built race frames almost exclusively. He was probably the best 
American frame builder of the day, but I don't see him as compararble to 
Riv. 

That's the rub, I'ld say.  Until 1970, when as Steve points out above 
Schwinn first started selling lugged Japanese made frames, a person looking 
to buy a practical bike that could handle commuting, touring, light camping 
and fun rides was probably going to wind up with a Schwinn Varsity, 
Continental, or maybe even the Collegiate.  

Paramounts and the few custom builders out there were mainly for racers. 
 Really a reflection of the market at the time.  Cycle commuting and 
touring were very rare.  Sport cyclists existed, but no where near as 
mainstream as they are today.  

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 12:23:42 PM UTC-6, Jim M. wrote:
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:40:25 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>
>>  On 12/17/2013 12:22 PM, Jim M. wrote:
>>
>> But the question isn't just who are among the best American frame 
>> builders today; it's in the 1960s.  And in the 1960s, Peter Weigle had yet 
>> to move to England, along with Richard Sachs, to learn how to build 
>> frames.  As was mentioned, Albert Eisentraut does date to that period, 
>> having begun in 1959.  
>>
>>
> Yes, Steve, I agree with you. I'm just pointing out the difference between 
> the questions asked, using an example from today.
>
> I have an Eisentraut, too, though from the '70s. From what I know of his 
> history, he built race frames almost exclusively. He was probably the best 
> American frame builder of the day, but I don't see him as compararble to 
> Riv.
>
> jim m
> wc ca
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis 53 or 54.5

[Dave]

Riv's sizing chart, as posted on their wall in a grid, puts an 82pbh on a 
53-54.5 Atlantis.  Too far away to take for a test ride?

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:14:33 AM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I ran across this Atlantis for sale while browsing the local Craig's List. 
> http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4225656821.html . The bike was 
> originally listed as a 53.5 so I was uncertain as to what the actual frame 
> size was since I could not find one listed as 53.5.  In any event I had a 
> chance to speak with the owner who was exceedingly  friendly, and helpful 
> about the bike.  Turns out the frame is actually a 53.  I was hoping for it 
> to be the 54.5 as I am 5' 9" with a PBH of 82 which would be perfect for me 
> according to Rivendell's current sizing standards.  So my questions is any 
> one out there my size or thereabouts have any experience with the 53cm 
> frame? To small or just right perhaps?  If so it would be great to hear 
> about your experience on the 53.  I have been checking around and noticed 
> that at one point in time the Atlantis was not listed as being made in 54.5 
> frame size and the 53 was recommended for someone my size. (wring hands)  !)
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis 53 or 54.5

[Richard Rios]

Hi All,  Thank you for the responses they have been very helpful.  I am in 
contact with the owner of the bike and we are working on a time to get 
together for a test ride... :)  I apologize if my post pops up out of order 
or seems like I am responding to myself as I am still working on figuring 
the messaging system out.  Thanks for the understanding.  If it comes out 
OK please disregard the former.

Sincerely,
Richard
On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:14:33 AM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I ran across this Atlantis for sale while browsing the local Craig's List. 
> http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4225656821.html . The bike was 
> originally listed as a 53.5 so I was uncertain as to what the actual frame 
> size was since I could not find one listed as 53.5.  In any event I had a 
> chance to speak with the owner who was exceedingly  friendly, and helpful 
> about the bike.  Turns out the frame is actually a 53.  I was hoping for it 
> to be the 54.5 as I am 5' 9" with a PBH of 82 which would be perfect for me 
> according to Rivendell's current sizing standards.  So my questions is any 
> one out there my size or thereabouts have any experience with the 53cm 
> frame? To small or just right perhaps?  If so it would be great to hear 
> about your experience on the 53.  I have been checking around and noticed 
> that at one point in time the Atlantis was not listed as being made in 54.5 
> frame size and the 53 was recommended for someone my size. (wring hands)  !)
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis 53 or 54.5

[Joe Bernard]

Richard, I find that seattube length is practically meaningless beyond my 
ability to lean the bike over and get a leg over. It's all in the toptube, 
which is also a bit theoretical until you factor in stem and bar reach. If 
you think you can get saddle-to-bar-reach to work for you on that frame, go 
for it.

Joe Bernard
Vallejo, CA.

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:14:33 AM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I ran across this Atlantis for sale while browsing the local Craig's List. 
> http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4225656821.html . The bike was 
> originally listed as a 53.5 so I was uncertain as to what the actual frame 
> size was since I could not find one listed as 53.5.  In any event I had a 
> chance to speak with the owner who was exceedingly  friendly, and helpful 
> about the bike.  Turns out the frame is actually a 53.  I was hoping for it 
> to be the 54.5 as I am 5' 9" with a PBH of 82 which would be perfect for me 
> according to Rivendell's current sizing standards.  So my questions is any 
> one out there my size or thereabouts have any experience with the 53cm 
> frame? To small or just right perhaps?  If so it would be great to hear 
> about your experience on the 53.  I have been checking around and noticed 
> that at one point in time the Atlantis was not listed as being made in 54.5 
> frame size and the 53 was recommended for someone my size. (wring hands)  !)
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis 53 or 54.5

[Deacon Patrick]

No worries, Richard. Google takes care of the order based on the chronology 
of the posts, not on which posts you are responding to. Will this be your 
first Rivendell? Enjoy your test ride!

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 2:43:08 PM UTC-7, Richard Rios wrote:
>
> Hi All,  Thank you for the responses they have been very helpful.  I am in 
> contact with the owner of the bike and we are working on a time to get 
> together for a test ride... :)  I apologize if my post pops up out of order 
> or seems like I am responding to myself as I am still working on figuring 
> the messaging system out.  Thanks for the understanding.  If it comes out 
> OK please disregard the former.
>
> Sincerely,
> Richard
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:14:33 AM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I ran across this Atlantis for sale while browsing the local Craig's 
>> List. http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4225656821.html . The 
>> bike was originally listed as a 53.5 so I was uncertain as to what the 
>> actual frame size was since I could not find one listed as 53.5.  In any 
>> event I had a chance to speak with the owner who was exceedingly  friendly, 
>> and helpful about the bike.  Turns out the frame is actually a 53.  I was 
>> hoping for it to be the 54.5 as I am 5' 9" with a PBH of 82 which would be 
>> perfect for me according to Rivendell's current sizing standards.  So my 
>> questions is any one out there my size or thereabouts have any experience 
>> with the 53cm frame? To small or just right perhaps?  If so it would be 
>> great to hear about your experience on the 53.  I have been checking around 
>> and noticed that at one point in time the Atlantis was not listed as being 
>> made in 54.5 frame size and the 53 was recommended for someone my size. 
>> (wring hands)  !)
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: New RBW Silver brand chainrings available!

[dougP]

Reading between the lines it sounds like "let's have some fun with the 
tooth counts".  Like it says, what's a tooth here or there?  With wide 
range cassettes, you're always bound to find a gear somewhere that works.  
Pricing is in line with plain flat rings and they're made from 7075 alloy 
so should have long service life.  

dougP

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:49:24 AM UTC-8, Brewster Fong wrote:
>
>
> On Monday, December 16, 2013 10:32:45 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote: 
>>
>>  Very cool.
>>  Wouldn't it be cool if they had a whole line of "Silver" branded 
>> components?
>> Could deck out the whole frameset with complete Silver build.
>>
>> Wonder if they will only sell these rings from now on at RBW?
>> Glad to know there is a place where I can buy rings for my favoritest 
>> Sugino XD2 triple crankset whenever I will need them!
>>
>> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/chr2.htm
>>
>>  
> What's interesting is the weird tooth counts being offered - 45, 43, 35?!  
> They're made in the USA, they're probably made by Vuelta using the Silver 
> (or S!lver brand name).  For the  110bcd, if they wanted to be different, 
> Riv should have had one made in 33t like TA!  Good Luck! 
>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New RBW Silver brand chainrings available!

[Peter Morgano]

Those cnc chain rings are hot, totally unnecessary but hot.
On Dec 17, 2013 4:56 PM, "dougP"  wrote:

> Reading between the lines it sounds like "let's have some fun with the
> tooth counts".  Like it says, what's a tooth here or there?  With wide
> range cassettes, you're always bound to find a gear somewhere that works.
> Pricing is in line with plain flat rings and they're made from 7075 alloy
> so should have long service life.
>
> dougP
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:49:24 AM UTC-8, Brewster Fong wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Monday, December 16, 2013 10:32:45 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote:
>>>
>>>  Very cool.
>>>  Wouldn't it be cool if they had a whole line of "Silver" branded
>>> components?
>>> Could deck out the whole frameset with complete Silver build.
>>>
>>> Wonder if they will only sell these rings from now on at RBW?
>>> Glad to know there is a place where I can buy rings for my favoritest
>>> Sugino XD2 triple crankset whenever I will need them!
>>>
>>> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/chr2.htm
>>>
>>>
>> What's interesting is the weird tooth counts being offered - 45, 43,
>> 35?!  They're made in the USA, they're probably made by Vuelta using the
>> Silver (or S!lver brand name).  For the  110bcd, if they wanted to be
>> different, Riv should have had one made in 33t like TA!  Good Luck!
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis 53 or 54.5

[Hugh Smitham]

Bruce will have all the necessary tools for fit. Unless they meet at a
different location than his home.

And Doug is correct there is overlap...I could fit on a 53 cm or a 56 cm
but decided on the 56 cm as I have a 83.5 to 84 cm PBH

Richard, been on the group for a bit over a year now and still working out
the messaging :-)

I can assure you this Atlantis is in remarkable condition and worth the
time to check it out. Enjoy the process.

-Hugh
 On Dec 17, 2013 1:18 PM, "dougP"  wrote:

> Richard:
>
> Likely you can easily fit more than one frame size.  Rivendell has
> published a couple of charts over the years and there is usually a bit of
> overlap in frame sizes, and their recommendations tend to larger sizes.
> Definitely worth giving this one a serious look and take your wrenches so
> you can adjust to fit.
>
> dougP (58 cm Atlantis)
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:14:33 AM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I ran across this Atlantis for sale while browsing the local Craig's
>> List. http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4225656821.html . The
>> bike was originally listed as a 53.5 so I was uncertain as to what the
>> actual frame size was since I could not find one listed as 53.5.  In any
>> event I had a chance to speak with the owner who was exceedingly  friendly,
>> and helpful about the bike.  Turns out the frame is actually a 53.  I was
>> hoping for it to be the 54.5 as I am 5' 9" with a PBH of 82 which would be
>> perfect for me according to Rivendell's current sizing standards.  So my
>> questions is any one out there my size or thereabouts have any experience
>> with the 53cm frame? To small or just right perhaps?  If so it would be
>> great to hear about your experience on the 53.  I have been checking around
>> and noticed that at one point in time the Atlantis was not listed as being
>> made in 54.5 frame size and the 53 was recommended for someone my size.
>> (wring hands)  !)
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/17/2013 03:30 PM, Matthew J wrote:


> By 1971 there was the P15, a (light) touring bike equipped with a
Campagnolo triple crank.  I ordered mine in July, 1971.

Reckon that was quite a bike.



It was.  I rode mine for 20 years, until I got the Spectrum, at which 
point I discovered just how poorly it fit me.I'd ordered a 23" frame 
but they mismarked the order and checked 22" instead. When it arrived, 
the LBS then gave me the old "the smallest frame you can fit is best 
because it's lightest and stiffest" razzle, and knowing it would be at 
least another six months before I could get a 23" (I ordered it in July, 
took delivery in January of the year following) I agreed.  After one 
ride on the Spectrum I knew I could never ride the Paramount again.  I 
put it in the shed and before long it had been stolen.


It did have some quirks.  For the first year, it had a terrible, 
terrifying speed wobble.  I changed stem and bars and somehow, I still 
don't know how, the speed wobble went away, but fast descents always 
felt as though the bike was only a knife-edge away from instability.  
I'd say it felt like I was holding my life in a fishbowl between my 
fingers, with outstretched arms.


All that said, I still wish I had it.  I feel like 20 years of memories 
disappeared along with that bike.



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[RBW] Re: Atlantis 53 or 54.5

[Richard Rios]

Thank you for the reassurance :).  No, actually would'nt be my first 
Rivendell.  I currently own a Simpleone and Sam H.  I have always loved the 
Atlantis for some reason.  Believe it has to do in some part with the 
lyrics for the Velvet Underground song Heroin...

I wish that I was born a thousand years ago 
I wish that I'd sail the darkened seas 
On a great big clipper ship 
Going from this land here to that 
In a sailor's suit and cap 
Away from the big city 
Where a man can not be free 
Of all of the evils of this town 
And of himself, and those around 

Somehow the two became wrapped together in my brain as far as how I felt in 
part about cycling and what not, and with the Atlantis being a Clipper ship 
of a Bicycle well...Hope this makes some sense.  The beautiful blue paint 
and lugs don't hurt either! :)  

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:14:33 AM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I ran across this Atlantis for sale while browsing the local Craig's List. 
> http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4225656821.html . The bike was 
> originally listed as a 53.5 so I was uncertain as to what the actual frame 
> size was since I could not find one listed as 53.5.  In any event I had a 
> chance to speak with the owner who was exceedingly  friendly, and helpful 
> about the bike.  Turns out the frame is actually a 53.  I was hoping for it 
> to be the 54.5 as I am 5' 9" with a PBH of 82 which would be perfect for me 
> according to Rivendell's current sizing standards.  So my questions is any 
> one out there my size or thereabouts have any experience with the 53cm 
> frame? To small or just right perhaps?  If so it would be great to hear 
> about your experience on the 53.  I have been checking around and noticed 
> that at one point in time the Atlantis was not listed as being made in 54.5 
> frame size and the 53 was recommended for someone my size. (wring hands)  !)
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/17/2013 02:04 PM, Matthew J wrote:
That's the rub, I'ld say.  Until 1970, when as Steve points out above 
Schwinn first started selling lugged Japanese made frames, a person 
looking to buy a practical bike that could handle commuting, touring, 
light camping and fun rides was probably going to wind up with a 
Schwinn Varsity, Continental, or maybe even the Collegiate.


In 1964 I bought a Dunelt in a bike shop in Buffalo NY.  Gas pipe 
tubing, Huret Allvit derailleurs and a very limited range half-step 
drive train, but 27 x 1 1/4" tires and clearance for fenders.  I 
commuted on mine, but you could easily have done light touring with it, 
subject to the limitations of the gearing.  Dunelt was one of many 
Raleigh house brands.  Although it was made of inexpensive tubing, 
cottered steel cranks and bolt-on wheels, it was made well, and aside 
from when I had Tom Kellogg build me a custom (and Tom is legendary for 
his fitting skills) I've never been as carefully fitted for a bicycle as 
I was in that shop in Buffalo.  They must have spent an hour with me.  I 
think the bike cost all of $65.




Paramounts and the few custom builders out there were mainly for 
racers.  Really a reflection of the market at the time.  Cycle 
commuting and touring were very rare.  Sport cyclists existed, but no 
where near as mainstream as they are today.


In the 1960s, Paramounts were mainly racing bikes, track or road. By 
1971 there was the P15, a (light) touring bike equipped with a 
Campagnolo triple crank.  I ordered mine in July, 1971.


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[RBW] Re: Atlantis 53 or 54.5

[Deacon Patrick]

Makes perfect sense, Richard. I fell in love with the Hunqapillar because 
an ogre like me really does need a mammoth to ride. And now that I ride 
mostly backcountry trails, I love the idea of a mammoth tromping and 
wending it's way through the pines much like a broad antlered elk or 
massive bear somehow manages to gracefully do.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 3:12:57 PM UTC-7, Richard Rios wrote:
>
> Thank you for the reassurance :).  No, actually would'nt be my first 
> Rivendell.  I currently own a Simpleone and Sam H.  I have always loved the 
> Atlantis for some reason.  Believe it has to do in some part with the 
> lyrics for the Velvet Underground song Heroin...
>
> I wish that I was born a thousand years ago 
> I wish that I'd sail the darkened seas 
> On a great big clipper ship 
> Going from this land here to that 
> In a sailor's suit and cap 
> Away from the big city 
> Where a man can not be free 
> Of all of the evils of this town 
> And of himself, and those around 
>
> Somehow the two became wrapped together in my brain as far as how I felt 
> in part about cycling and what not, and with the Atlantis being a Clipper 
> ship of a Bicycle well...Hope this makes some sense.  The beautiful blue 
> paint and lugs don't hurt either! :)  
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:14:33 AM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I ran across this Atlantis for sale while browsing the local Craig's 
>> List. http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4225656821.html . The 
>> bike was originally listed as a 53.5 so I was uncertain as to what the 
>> actual frame size was since I could not find one listed as 53.5.  In any 
>> event I had a chance to speak with the owner who was exceedingly  friendly, 
>> and helpful about the bike.  Turns out the frame is actually a 53.  I was 
>> hoping for it to be the 54.5 as I am 5' 9" with a PBH of 82 which would be 
>> perfect for me according to Rivendell's current sizing standards.  So my 
>> questions is any one out there my size or thereabouts have any experience 
>> with the 53cm frame? To small or just right perhaps?  If so it would be 
>> great to hear about your experience on the 53.  I have been checking around 
>> and noticed that at one point in time the Atlantis was not listed as being 
>> made in 54.5 frame size and the 53 was recommended for someone my size. 
>> (wring hands)  !)
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: New RBW Silver brand chainrings available!

[Bill Lindsay]

$1/tooth is brilliant. 

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:56:10 PM UTC-8, dougP wrote:
>
> Reading between the lines it sounds like "let's have some fun with the 
> tooth counts".  Like it says, what's a tooth here or there?  With wide 
> range cassettes, you're always bound to find a gear somewhere that works.  
> Pricing is in line with plain flat rings and they're made from 7075 alloy 
> so should have long service life.  
>
> dougP
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:49:24 AM UTC-8, Brewster Fong wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Monday, December 16, 2013 10:32:45 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote: 
>>>
>>>  Very cool.
>>>  Wouldn't it be cool if they had a whole line of "Silver" branded 
>>> components?
>>> Could deck out the whole frameset with complete Silver build.
>>>
>>> Wonder if they will only sell these rings from now on at RBW?
>>> Glad to know there is a place where I can buy rings for my favoritest 
>>> Sugino XD2 triple crankset whenever I will need them!
>>>
>>> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/chr2.htm
>>>
>>>  
>> What's interesting is the weird tooth counts being offered - 45, 43, 
>> 35?!  They're made in the USA, they're probably made by Vuelta using the 
>> Silver (or S!lver brand name).  For the  110bcd, if they wanted to be 
>> different, Riv should have had one made in 33t like TA!  Good Luck! 
>>  
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Brooks leather bar tape - care & feeding tips?

[Michael]

>
> Thought I read somewhere that Brooks says don't put anything on it.
>

Someone else here can chime in who knows for sure.

I would think dressing it before putting it on would be a bad idea because 
you want the grip of the tape adhesive to be perfect on the handlebar. I 
would be afraid that the dressing would interfere with the tape gripping 
the bar. Hard to keep it off the underside of the tape.

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[RBW] Re: Brooks leather bar tape - care & feeding tips?

[Deacon Patrick]

I use a lot of leather and care for it over the years, though I use cotton 
tape on my bars. In my experience, properly oiled leather grips everything 
better than dry leather, to itself, to steel, wood, hands, feet, whatever. 
So you idea to pre-oil is sound. If I were installing those on my bars 
(which I'd love to do, by the way! great gift!) I would also pre-stretch -- 
after oiling, stand on one end with your foot, and pull (harder for thicker 
leather). Then, as you wrap the bars, pull very snug at each wrap to get it 
good and snug. I wouldn't wait for it to get "dry," you want the leather to 
always be soft and supple.

I recommend Obenauf's heavy duty LP over their lighter oil. It will protect 
against sweat and sun better.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 4:08:36 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:
>
> Thought I read somewhere that Brooks says don't put anything on it.
>>
>
> Someone else here can chime in who knows for sure.
>
> I would think dressing it before putting it on would be a bad idea because 
> you want the grip of the tape adhesive to be perfect on the handlebar. I 
> would be afraid that the dressing would interfere with the tape gripping 
> the bar. Hard to keep it off the underside of the tape.
>

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[RBW] Re: Brooks leather bar tape - care & feeding tips?

[Michael]

>
> Whatever you do...
>
don't pull too hard on the split section of the tape or it will separate. 
Some of their lengths of tape are in two pieces.

Yes...sadly...Brooks doesn't have all the lengths as one piece, which I 
think is unacceptable for the price they charge for them.

If it does separate a smidge, a little electrical tape on the back helps it 
stay together.

Worst case, you could decoratively twine that section!

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[RBW] Re: Brooks leather bar tape - care & feeding tips?

[Deacon Patrick]

Great point about multiple pieces stitched together, Michael. In that case, 
I would stretch each piece as if it were separate so the stitched area was 
not stressed, and same for that spot when wrapping, just pulling it taught 
without stretching that few inch area.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 4:28:01 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:
>
> Whatever you do...
>>
> don't pull too hard on the split section of the tape or it will separate. 
> Some of their lengths of tape are in two pieces.
>
> Yes...sadly...Brooks doesn't have all the lengths as one piece, which I 
> think is unacceptable for the price they charge for them.
>
> If it does separate a smidge, a little electrical tape on the back helps 
> it stay together.
>
> Worst case, you could decoratively twine that section!
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis 53 or 54.5

[dougP]

Richard:

If you're in southern California, come out to one of our irregularly 
scheduled bike rides.  Watch here for announcements on future rides.  I 
think our next one is in Redlands on March 15.  Some people even show up 
with non-Rivendell bikes but we're a tolerant bunch.  

Looks like the Atlantis is just what you need to round out your stable.  

dougP

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 2:12:57 PM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:
>
> Thank you for the reassurance :).  No, actually would'nt be my first 
> Rivendell.  I currently own a Simpleone and Sam H.  I have always loved the 
> Atlantis for some reason.  Believe it has to do in some part with the 
> lyrics for the Velvet Underground song Heroin...
>
> I wish that I was born a thousand years ago 
> I wish that I'd sail the darkened seas 
> On a great big clipper ship 
> Going from this land here to that 
> In a sailor's suit and cap 
> Away from the big city 
> Where a man can not be free 
> Of all of the evils of this town 
> And of himself, and those around 
>
> Somehow the two became wrapped together in my brain as far as how I felt 
> in part about cycling and what not, and with the Atlantis being a Clipper 
> ship of a Bicycle well...Hope this makes some sense.  The beautiful blue 
> paint and lugs don't hurt either! :)  
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:14:33 AM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I ran across this Atlantis for sale while browsing the local Craig's 
>> List. http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4225656821.html . The 
>> bike was originally listed as a 53.5 so I was uncertain as to what the 
>> actual frame size was since I could not find one listed as 53.5.  In any 
>> event I had a chance to speak with the owner who was exceedingly  friendly, 
>> and helpful about the bike.  Turns out the frame is actually a 53.  I was 
>> hoping for it to be the 54.5 as I am 5' 9" with a PBH of 82 which would be 
>> perfect for me according to Rivendell's current sizing standards.  So my 
>> questions is any one out there my size or thereabouts have any experience 
>> with the 53cm frame? To small or just right perhaps?  If so it would be 
>> great to hear about your experience on the 53.  I have been checking around 
>> and noticed that at one point in time the Atlantis was not listed as being 
>> made in 54.5 frame size and the 53 was recommended for someone my size. 
>> (wring hands)  !)
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What deals they were!

[Leslie]

On Saturday, December 14, 2013 8:27:27 PM UTC-5, Minh wrote:
>
> Well there have been some notable changes in manufacturing of those 
> frames, whereas the original Atlantis frames were made in Japan (when the 
> YEN exchange rate was much more favorable), now you get a frame made in the 
> US at Waterford.  
>
> Same with the Bombas, the price went up as the person that made them kept 
> changing.
>
> Whether that's worth the additional is a personal decision, but there have 
> been manufacturing changes.  It's a moot debate anyway, not like you can go 
> back in time and buy one of the original ones new today :)
>


FWIW, the Bomba's were/are a Waterford-build...  the prototype was done at 
Toyo, but it wasn't produced there.Mine, a diagonal one, the main-frame 
was done by Waterford, then sent to Mark Nobilette for adding the 
curvastays...  that was before it changed over to be listed as a 
'semi-custom'.   I think that could be what they do now still, but, I can't 
guarantee that; Mark could do the whole thing these days.   




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[RBW] Re: Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Marty]

For those interested, Oscar Wastyn still has a shop in Chicago.  I stopped 
in a couple years ago and took my camera along. Worth a visit if you're in 
the area. (I hope it's still there) 
FWIW, I would say the Taylor Bros. came as close to the RBW vibe as you can 
get. Rough stuff frames, racks, trailers - they were true innovators.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32306142@N07/sets/72157624445313593/

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[RBW] A moment of sadness

[Cecily Walker]

My osteoarthritis has become so bad in the last few weeks that it's nearly 
impossible to ride my Betty Foy. Even after a professional bike fitting, I 
simply don't have enough flexibility in the knee to make pedaling possible. 
Part of me feels like it's punishment for buying such an expensive bike in 
the first place, but the thing that hurts the most is I'll have to take 
*public transit* to work until things improve/until surgery, whichever 
comes first. 

But at least I'll finally have time to put the Nitto front rack on the 
bike. 

*heavy sigh*
Cecily

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[RBW] Re: A moment of sadness

[Deacon Patrick]

I am so sorry, Cecily. If I may, you'll be in my prayers. In the meantime, 
focus on the gifts rather than dwelling on the pain, there is, somehow, 
gift in everything.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 6:46:45 PM UTC-7, Cecily Walker wrote:
>
> My osteoarthritis has become so bad in the last few weeks that it's nearly 
> impossible to ride my Betty Foy. Even after a professional bike fitting, I 
> simply don't have enough flexibility in the knee to make pedaling possible. 
> Part of me feels like it's punishment for buying such an expensive bike in 
> the first place, but the thing that hurts the most is I'll have to take 
> *public transit* to work until things improve/until surgery, whichever 
> comes first. 
>
> But at least I'll finally have time to put the Nitto front rack on the 
> bike. 
>
> *heavy sigh*
> Cecily
>

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[RBW] Re: A moment of sadness

[Don Compton]

Cecily
I wish you the best. Hang in there.
I suffer from osteoarthritis, neck and back, and cold weather is difficult. 
On the other hand, when the temps hover near 60 and above, I feel like a 
young kid again. Maybe during the Canadian winters you should consider 
alternatives, but don't give up the independence of riding your bike. 
Sometimes, you just have to take some time off.
Wish you the best,
Don

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 5:46:45 PM UTC-8, Cecily Walker wrote:
>
> My osteoarthritis has become so bad in the last few weeks that it's nearly 
> impossible to ride my Betty Foy. Even after a professional bike fitting, I 
> simply don't have enough flexibility in the knee to make pedaling possible. 
> Part of me feels like it's punishment for buying such an expensive bike in 
> the first place, but the thing that hurts the most is I'll have to take 
> *public transit* to work until things improve/until surgery, whichever 
> comes first. 
>
> But at least I'll finally have time to put the Nitto front rack on the 
> bike. 
>
> *heavy sigh*
> Cecily
>

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[RBW] Re: New RBW Silver brand chainrings available!

[Matthew J]

> $1/tooth is brilliant.

Yes indeed.  And if these are even half good, a pretty decent price.  

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 4:23:52 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> $1/tooth is brilliant. 
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:56:10 PM UTC-8, dougP wrote:
>>
>> Reading between the lines it sounds like "let's have some fun with the 
>> tooth counts".  Like it says, what's a tooth here or there?  With wide 
>> range cassettes, you're always bound to find a gear somewhere that works.  
>> Pricing is in line with plain flat rings and they're made from 7075 alloy 
>> so should have long service life.  
>>
>> dougP
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:49:24 AM UTC-8, Brewster Fong wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, December 16, 2013 10:32:45 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote: 

  Very cool.
  Wouldn't it be cool if they had a whole line of "Silver" branded 
 components?
 Could deck out the whole frameset with complete Silver build.

 Wonder if they will only sell these rings from now on at RBW?
 Glad to know there is a place where I can buy rings for my favoritest 
 Sugino XD2 triple crankset whenever I will need them!

 http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/chr2.htm

  
>>> What's interesting is the weird tooth counts being offered - 45, 43, 
>>> 35?!  They're made in the USA, they're probably made by Vuelta using the 
>>> Silver (or S!lver brand name).  For the  110bcd, if they wanted to be 
>>> different, Riv should have had one made in 33t like TA!  Good Luck! 
>>>  
>>>
>>

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[RBW] OAC Rambler Ride Report

[Tony DeFilippo]

If this is to OT someone feel free to dump it...  I finally got around to 
writing up my visit and ride the Ocean Air Cycle's Rambler.  Really sweet 
bike with alot of soul in common with Rivendell bikes in my opinion.  It 
was definitely a bike I was interested in, and any company with a motto of 
"Usefull Stuff, Made in the USA" has to appeal to many of us here right!

Cliff notes for those not inclined to click through; exceptionally good 
riding bike that makes it easy to carry a front load, a couple of non-Riv 
things like TIG welded, threadless stem might be detractors but Rob has 
great explanations for all his design decisions.  It is a very thoughtfully 
spec'd frame!

http://dr2dc.blogspot.com/2013/12/ocean-air-cycles-rambler-review.html

Tony

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[RBW] Re: Brooks leather bar tape - care & feeding tips?

[SeanMac]

I've had Brooks tape on my Bob Brown custom bike since I received it in the 
Fall of 2007.  It has held up very well.  To the best of my recollection, I 
don't think I have ever done anything to treat it - though I may have 
smeared some Brooks Proofide on it at one time.  I don't know if the 
quality of the tape has changed over the years, but I think that the tape 
that I installed was not stitched together.  Whatever the case, I have been 
very happy with this product.  

Sean

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 6:34:17 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Great point about multiple pieces stitched together, Michael. In that 
> case, I would stretch each piece as if it were separate so the stitched 
> area was not stressed, and same for that spot when wrapping, just pulling 
> it taught without stretching that few inch area.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 4:28:01 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:
>>
>> Whatever you do...
>>>
>> don't pull too hard on the split section of the tape or it will separate. 
>> Some of their lengths of tape are in two pieces.
>>
>> Yes...sadly...Brooks doesn't have all the lengths as one piece, which I 
>> think is unacceptable for the price they charge for them.
>>
>> If it does separate a smidge, a little electrical tape on the back helps 
>> it stay together.
>>
>> Worst case, you could decoratively twine that section!
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: A moment of sadness

[Cecily Walker]

Though I'm not religious, I'm not one to turn down good thoughts/prayers. 
They're appreciated. 

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 5:58:42 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> I am so sorry, Cecily. If I may, you'll be in my prayers. In the meantime, 
> focus on the gifts rather than dwelling on the pain, there is, somehow, 
> gift in everything.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 6:46:45 PM UTC-7, Cecily Walker wrote:
>>
>> My osteoarthritis has become so bad in the last few weeks that it's 
>> nearly impossible to ride my Betty Foy. Even after a professional bike 
>> fitting, I simply don't have enough flexibility in the knee to make 
>> pedaling possible. Part of me feels like it's punishment for buying such an 
>> expensive bike in the first place, but the thing that hurts the most is 
>> I'll have to take *public transit* to work until things improve/until 
>> surgery, whichever comes first. 
>>
>> But at least I'll finally have time to put the Nitto front rack on the 
>> bike. 
>>
>> *heavy sigh*
>> Cecily
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Who was RBW back in the 1960's?

[Jim Cloud]

The Taylor Bros. were also highly influenced by the French Constructeur 
makers in their touring bike models.  These influences included their 
proprietary racks, internal frame wiring for lights, Lefol aluminum 
fenders, low-trail design, etc.  These aspects don't particularly appear in 
Grant Peterson's Rivendell bikes, in fact he has a more basic approach to 
his designs.

I would certainly agree that the RBW ethos is in line with the old "Rough 
Stuff" types of bikes and styles of riding that were popular in the U.K.

Jim

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 6:45:12 PM UTC-7, Marty wrote:
>
> For those interested, Oscar Wastyn still has a shop in Chicago.  I stopped 
> in a couple years ago and took my camera along. Worth a visit if you're in 
> the area. (I hope it's still there) 
> FWIW, I would say the Taylor Bros. came as close to the RBW vibe as you 
> can get. Rough stuff frames, racks, trailers - they were true innovators.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/32306142@N07/sets/72157624445313593/
>

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[RBW] Re: A moment of sadness

[Cecily Walker]

This is the first fall/winter it's been this bad. This is a completely new 
experience for me. Any day that it's physically possible to be back on the 
bike, you can bet I will be. 

Thanks for the well wishes, Don.

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 6:05:37 PM UTC-8, Don Compton wrote:
>
> Cecily
> I wish you the best. Hang in there.
> I suffer from osteoarthritis, neck and back, and cold weather is 
> difficult. On the other hand, when the temps hover near 60 and above, I 
> feel like a young kid again. Maybe during the Canadian winters you should 
> consider alternatives, but don't give up the independence of riding your 
> bike. Sometimes, you just have to take some time off.
> Wish you the best,
> Don
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 5:46:45 PM UTC-8, Cecily Walker wrote:
>>
>> My osteoarthritis has become so bad in the last few weeks that it's 
>> nearly impossible to ride my Betty Foy. Even after a professional bike 
>> fitting, I simply don't have enough flexibility in the knee to make 
>> pedaling possible. Part of me feels like it's punishment for buying such an 
>> expensive bike in the first place, but the thing that hurts the most is 
>> I'll have to take *public transit* to work until things improve/until 
>> surgery, whichever comes first. 
>>
>> But at least I'll finally have time to put the Nitto front rack on the 
>> bike. 
>>
>> *heavy sigh*
>> Cecily
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: OAC Rambler Ride Report

[dougP]

Thanks for the write-up, thoughtful & well done.  Rob had a trio of 
Ramblers at the recent steel bike show in Orange, CA, and they are quite 
nicely done.  You can tell a lot of thought & experience went into their 
design.  I'm enjoying my C-line tires from Ocean Air, and wish Rob all the 
best with the Ramber.

dougP

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 6:29:27 PM UTC-8, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>
> If this is to OT someone feel free to dump it...  I finally got around to 
> writing up my visit and ride the Ocean Air Cycle's Rambler.  Really sweet 
> bike with alot of soul in common with Rivendell bikes in my opinion.  It 
> was definitely a bike I was interested in, and any company with a motto of 
> "Usefull Stuff, Made in the USA" has to appeal to many of us here right!
>
> Cliff notes for those not inclined to click through; exceptionally good 
> riding bike that makes it easy to carry a front load, a couple of non-Riv 
> things like TIG welded, threadless stem might be detractors but Rob has 
> great explanations for all his design decisions.  It is a very thoughtfully 
> spec'd frame!
>
> http://dr2dc.blogspot.com/2013/12/ocean-air-cycles-rambler-review.html
>
> Tony
>

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[RBW] Re: New RBW Silver brand chainrings available!

[dougP]

"Half good" ain't good enough for Rivendell (chuckle, grin).  Don't need 
'em right now but should probably pick up a set before prices head up (see 
earlier thread re: "what deals").  

dougP

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 6:13:54 PM UTC-8, Matthew J wrote:
>
> > $1/tooth is brilliant.
>
> Yes indeed.  And if these are even half good, a pretty decent price.  
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 4:23:52 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> $1/tooth is brilliant. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:56:10 PM UTC-8, dougP wrote:
>>>
>>> Reading between the lines it sounds like "let's have some fun with the 
>>> tooth counts".  Like it says, what's a tooth here or there?  With wide 
>>> range cassettes, you're always bound to find a gear somewhere that works.  
>>> Pricing is in line with plain flat rings and they're made from 7075 alloy 
>>> so should have long service life.  
>>>
>>> dougP
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:49:24 AM UTC-8, Brewster Fong wrote:


 On Monday, December 16, 2013 10:32:45 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote: 
>
>  Very cool.
>  Wouldn't it be cool if they had a whole line of "Silver" branded 
> components?
> Could deck out the whole frameset with complete Silver build.
>
> Wonder if they will only sell these rings from now on at RBW?
> Glad to know there is a place where I can buy rings for my favoritest 
> Sugino XD2 triple crankset whenever I will need them!
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/chr2.htm
>
>  
 What's interesting is the weird tooth counts being offered - 45, 43, 
 35?!  They're made in the USA, they're probably made by Vuelta using the 
 Silver (or S!lver brand name).  For the  110bcd, if they wanted to be 
 different, Riv should have had one made in 33t like TA!  Good Luck! 
  

>>>

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[RBW] Re: A moment of sadness

[dougP]

That is sad & we all wish you the best.  On a hopeful note, cycling is 
generally good for the knees as it promotes blood flow & lubrication as 
long as the loads are kept moderate.  I have one abused knee that used to 
get stiff & sore, but after retirement and cycling nearly every day it 
hasn't complained in years.  Others I've known have been able to ride when 
they couldn't hike.  

Have you tried popping it onto an indoor trainer just to get in some light 
spinning?  

dougP

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:24:41 PM UTC-8, Cecily Walker wrote:
>
> This is the first fall/winter it's been this bad. This is a completely new 
> experience for me. Any day that it's physically possible to be back on the 
> bike, you can bet I will be. 
>
> Thanks for the well wishes, Don.
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 6:05:37 PM UTC-8, Don Compton wrote:
>>
>> Cecily
>> I wish you the best. Hang in there.
>> I suffer from osteoarthritis, neck and back, and cold weather is 
>> difficult. On the other hand, when the temps hover near 60 and above, I 
>> feel like a young kid again. Maybe during the Canadian winters you should 
>> consider alternatives, but don't give up the independence of riding your 
>> bike. Sometimes, you just have to take some time off.
>> Wish you the best,
>> Don
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 5:46:45 PM UTC-8, Cecily Walker wrote:
>>>
>>> My osteoarthritis has become so bad in the last few weeks that it's 
>>> nearly impossible to ride my Betty Foy. Even after a professional bike 
>>> fitting, I simply don't have enough flexibility in the knee to make 
>>> pedaling possible. Part of me feels like it's punishment for buying such an 
>>> expensive bike in the first place, but the thing that hurts the most is 
>>> I'll have to take *public transit* to work until things improve/until 
>>> surgery, whichever comes first. 
>>>
>>> But at least I'll finally have time to put the Nitto front rack on the 
>>> bike. 
>>>
>>> *heavy sigh*
>>> Cecily
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole

[Doug Williams]

I'm weaving flowers into my beard right now and looking for a lugged steel 
maypole. Care to join me? From SRAM and the Bike Snob New York:

Doug


*It has recently come to our attention that during last weekend’s 
Cyclocross racing in the US, in sub freezing temperatures, several failures 
were reported. In these conditions the master cylinder seals failed to hold 
pressure resulting in abrupt loss of brake power, and an inability to stop 
the bike. These failures are related to product that is outside the 
originally stated date code range and unrelated to the original failure 
mode. No injuries have been reported to date.*

*As a result of this new finding, SRAM requests that anyone who has a bike 
equipped with SRAM Hydraulic Disc or Hydraulic Rim Brakes stop using the 
bike immediately. All products shipped to date, and currently in the market 
or in inventory will be recalled.*

Upon reading this, retrogrouches around the world wove flowers into their 
beards and danced arm-in-arm around the lugged steel maypole, reveling in 
the irony that the very conditions in which hydrolic dick breaks are 
supposed to excel were instead their undoing.  Meanwhile, the experts at 
SRAM have been working around the clock to find a new way to convince 
people that you need hydraulic braking for slow bicycle races that last 
only 45 minutes to an hour in which you have access to a spare bicycle 
roughly every five minutes.

As for the hydraulic rim brakes, all SRAM has to say about that is that if 
you actually bought those then the joke's on you. 

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[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole

[RJM]

Disks on roadbikes is going to be an awful fad.

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:56:56 PM UTC-6, Doug Williams wrote:
>
> I'm weaving flowers into my beard right now and looking for a lugged steel 
> maypole. Care to join me? From SRAM and the Bike Snob New York:
>
> Doug
>
>
> *It has recently come to our attention that during last weekend’s 
> Cyclocross racing in the US, in sub freezing temperatures, several failures 
> were reported. In these conditions the master cylinder seals failed to hold 
> pressure resulting in abrupt loss of brake power, and an inability to stop 
> the bike. These failures are related to product that is outside the 
> originally stated date code range and unrelated to the original failure 
> mode. No injuries have been reported to date.*
>
> *As a result of this new finding, SRAM requests that anyone who has a bike 
> equipped with SRAM Hydraulic Disc or Hydraulic Rim Brakes stop using the 
> bike immediately. All products shipped to date, and currently in the market 
> or in inventory will be recalled.*
>
> Upon reading this, retrogrouches around the world wove flowers into their 
> beards and danced arm-in-arm around the lugged steel maypole, reveling in 
> the irony that the very conditions in which hydrolic dick breaks are 
> supposed to excel were instead their undoing.  Meanwhile, the experts at 
> SRAM have been working around the clock to find a new way to convince 
> people that you need hydraulic braking for slow bicycle races that last 
> only 45 minutes to an hour in which you have access to a spare bicycle 
> roughly every five minutes.
>
> As for the hydraulic rim brakes, all SRAM has to say about that is that if 
> you actually bought those then the joke's on you. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole

[Brewster Fong]

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:56:56 PM UTC-8, Doug Williams wrote:
>
> I'm weaving flowers into my beard right now and looking for a lugged steel 
> maypole. Care to join me? From SRAM and the Bike Snob New York:
>
> Doug
>
>
> *It has recently come to our attention that during last weekend’s 
> Cyclocross racing in the US, in sub freezing temperatures, several failures 
> were reported. In these conditions the master cylinder seals failed to hold 
> pressure resulting in abrupt loss of brake power, and an inability to stop 
> the bike. These failures are related to product that is outside the 
> originally stated date code range and unrelated to the original failure 
> mode. No injuries have been reported to date.*
>
> *As a result of this new finding, SRAM requests that anyone who has a bike 
> equipped with SRAM Hydraulic Disc or Hydraulic Rim Brakes stop using the 
> bike immediately. All products shipped to date, and currently in the market 
> or in inventory will be recalled.*
>
> Upon reading this, retrogrouches around the world wove flowers into their 
> beards and danced arm-in-arm around the lugged steel maypole, reveling in 
> the irony that the very conditions in which hydrolic dick breaks are 
> supposed to excel were instead their undoing.  Meanwhile, the experts at 
> SRAM have been working around the clock to find a new way to convince 
> people that you need hydraulic braking for slow bicycle races that last 
> only 45 minutes to an hour in which you have access to a spare bicycle 
> roughly every five minutes.
>
> As for the hydraulic rim brakes, all SRAM has to say about that is that if 
> you actually bought those then the joke's on you. 
>

Its actually worse, this is going to be very expensive for Sram:

 
http://www.bicycleretailer.com/recalls/2013/12/17/sram-says-brake-recall-disruptive-and-painful#.UrEgovRDuSo

I can see the lawyers lining up now.

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis 53 or 54.5

[Richard Rios]

Putting the 15th on my calendar! I live in the Loma linda / Redlandsish 
area so it would be perfect.  Looking forward to the chance to meet and 
ride with some fellow Rivendell owners.  And thank you all again for the 
helpful feedback.

Sincerely,
Richard

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:14:33 AM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I ran across this Atlantis for sale while browsing the local Craig's List. 
> http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4225656821.html . The bike was 
> originally listed as a 53.5 so I was uncertain as to what the actual frame 
> size was since I could not find one listed as 53.5.  In any event I had a 
> chance to speak with the owner who was exceedingly  friendly, and helpful 
> about the bike.  Turns out the frame is actually a 53.  I was hoping for it 
> to be the 54.5 as I am 5' 9" with a PBH of 82 which would be perfect for me 
> according to Rivendell's current sizing standards.  So my questions is any 
> one out there my size or thereabouts have any experience with the 53cm 
> frame? To small or just right perhaps?  If so it would be great to hear 
> about your experience on the 53.  I have been checking around and noticed 
> that at one point in time the Atlantis was not listed as being made in 54.5 
> frame size and the 53 was recommended for someone my size. (wring hands)  !)
>
>
>

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[RBW] A moment of sadness

[Philip Williamson]

I'm sorry to hear that! As Patrick says, maybe you'll save someone's life on 
the public transit... 
Actually he never said that! :^)

Get better! 

Philip
www.biketinker.com

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Re: [RBW] Re: what have you carried on your Rivendell?

[cyclotourist]

Just got home with these: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/11429768503/

No problem what so ever!

On 11/23/13, cyclotourist  wrote:
> Just got back from recycling two gallons of used motor oil... was not
> a pleasant load to carry!
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/11016886936/
>
>
>
> On 11/22/13, Kelly  wrote:
>> Carried firewood down to the campsite on a bicycle tour...
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/10843623563/
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 7:39:26 PM UTC-6, dougP wrote:
>>>
>>> Photo sent to me by a fellow Atlantis owner & obviously bird lover.
>>> This
>>>
>>> is 40 lbs of birdseed and did not upset the bike's handling.  While I
>>> didn't weigh the load nor take photos, I've had a stack of canvas tote
>>> bags
>>> on my Atlantis that was large enough to make getting on the bike
>>> difficult
>>>
>>> and most definitely upset the handling.
>>>
>>> Nice tidy pannier loads aside, what interesting things have people
>>> carried
>>>
>>> on their Rivendells?
>>>
>>> dougP
>>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> David
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>


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Re: [RBW] A moment of sadness

[cyclotourist]

Sorry to read this, hope you this is just an exacerbation and it goes
into remission soon!

On 12/17/13, Philip Williamson  wrote:
> I'm sorry to hear that! As Patrick says, maybe you'll save someone's life on
> the public transit...
> Actually he never said that! :^)
>
> Get better!
>
> Philip
> www.biketinker.com
>
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David

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Re: [RBW] Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole

[cyclotourist]

Yet another reason to start growing a beard!

On 12/17/13, Doug Williams  wrote:
> I'm weaving flowers into my beard right now and looking for a lugged steel
> maypole. Care to join me? From SRAM and the Bike Snob New York:
>
> Doug
>
>
> *It has recently come to our attention that during last weekend’s
> Cyclocross racing in the US, in sub freezing temperatures, several failures
>
> were reported. In these conditions the master cylinder seals failed to hold
>
> pressure resulting in abrupt loss of brake power, and an inability to stop
> the bike. These failures are related to product that is outside the
> originally stated date code range and unrelated to the original failure
> mode. No injuries have been reported to date.*
>
> *As a result of this new finding, SRAM requests that anyone who has a bike
> equipped with SRAM Hydraulic Disc or Hydraulic Rim Brakes stop using the
> bike immediately. All products shipped to date, and currently in the market
>
> or in inventory will be recalled.*
>
> Upon reading this, retrogrouches around the world wove flowers into their
> beards and danced arm-in-arm around the lugged steel maypole, reveling in
> the irony that the very conditions in which hydrolic dick breaks are
> supposed to excel were instead their undoing.  Meanwhile, the experts at
> SRAM have been working around the clock to find a new way to convince
> people that you need hydraulic braking for slow bicycle races that last
> only 45 minutes to an hour in which you have access to a spare bicycle
> roughly every five minutes.
>
> As for the hydraulic rim brakes, all SRAM has to say about that is that if
> you actually bought those then the joke's on you.
>
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David

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[RBW] WTB Shimano Bar end shifter; Front/left only

[Michael Williams]

Hey group,   wondering if anyone has a spare Shimano FRONT only bar end 
shifter laying around,  8/9 speed,  doesnt matter.  I want to try it in a 
Paul thumbie,   and the Microshift that Riv sells isnt compatible,  and the 
Silver shifter needs extra hardware.   Thank you in advance!!-Mike

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[RBW] Re: A moment of sadness

[IanA]

"Part of me feels like it's punishment for buying such an expensive bike in 
the first place"

Owning/riding/buying a bicycle is one of the kindest things a human-being 
can do.  For themself, for society and for so many good reasons.  There is 
no punishment for having "such an expensive bicycle".  Think about the 
people who benefited through your wise purchase, think about the years of 
service the bicycle can offer due to its high-quality and you'll see that 
it was not expensive at all.

All the very best for a fast recovery.  

Ian

Ian A/Canada

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 6:46:45 PM UTC-7, Cecily Walker wrote:
>
> My osteoarthritis has become so bad in the last few weeks that it's nearly 
> impossible to ride my Betty Foy. Even after a professional bike fitting, I 
> simply don't have enough flexibility in the knee to make pedaling possible. 
> Part of me feels like it's punishment for buying such an expensive bike in 
> the first place, but the thing that hurts the most is I'll have to take 
> *public transit* to work until things improve/until surgery, whichever 
> comes first. 
>
> But at least I'll finally have time to put the Nitto front rack on the 
> bike. 
>
> *heavy sigh*
> Cecily
>

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[RBW] OAC Rambler Ride Report

[velomann]

I'm the proud owner of a sunflower yellow 650b Rambler and I am absolutely 
thrilled with it. I only got it built up in October and have yet to get it out 
on a real "ramble", but my country-ish commute has me putting about 125 very 
enjoyable miles/ week on this bike, and my affection for it just grows and 
grows. I'll get a blog post up in the next couple weeks, after some longer 
rides (yea Christmas break!), but I'll echo much of what was said regarding 
thoughtful design and Rob being the nicest guy to work with. Or have breakfast 
with. 

Fwiw, the threadless steerer and Paul center pulls we're selling points for me, 
as was the fact that it was US made ( in my hometown no less). And when I 
started down the road a couple years ago considering custom, semi-custom, 
whatever - I realized I'm not a lug snob; that the quality of the ride is far 
more important to me. On that note, the skinny tubing makes the Rambler a very 
sweet and smooth ride. Not whippy, but definitely flexible in all the right 
ways. I won't use the "P" word, but it's there.

Some pics here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8199310@N04/sets/72157635510941022/

Mike

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis 53 or 54.5

[Joe Bernard]

I've always loved the Atlantis, too, for entirely aesthetic reasons: I love 
the color, the name, and the headbadge. I've so far managed to avoid 
actually buying one - I've had an AHH, Saluki, Rambouillet, Romulus, and 
currently a Bleriot - but I suspect it's only a matter of time. This one is 
my size, too, so buy it before I do!
 
Joe "kidding, no Atlantis for me right now" Bernard
Vallejo, CA.

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 2:12:57 PM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:

> Thank you for the reassurance :).  No, actually would'nt be my first 
> Rivendell.  I currently own a Simpleone and Sam H.  I have always loved the 
> Atlantis for some reason.  Believe it has to do in some part with the 
> lyrics for the Velvet Underground song Heroin...
>
> I wish that I was born a thousand years ago 
> I wish that I'd sail the darkened seas 
> On a great big clipper ship 
> Going from this land here to that 
> In a sailor's suit and cap 
> Away from the big city 
> Where a man can not be free 
> Of all of the evils of this town 
> And of himself, and those around 
>
> Somehow the two became wrapped together in my brain as far as how I felt 
> in part about cycling and what not, and with the Atlantis being a Clipper 
> ship of a Bicycle well...Hope this makes some sense.  The beautiful blue 
> paint and lugs don't hurt either! :)  
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:14:33 AM UTC-8, Richard Rios wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I ran across this Atlantis for sale while browsing the local Craig's 
>> List. http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4225656821.html . The 
>> bike was originally listed as a 53.5 so I was uncertain as to what the 
>> actual frame size was since I could not find one listed as 53.5.  In any 
>> event I had a chance to speak with the owner who was exceedingly  friendly, 
>> and helpful about the bike.  Turns out the frame is actually a 53.  I was 
>> hoping for it to be the 54.5 as I am 5' 9" with a PBH of 82 which would be 
>> perfect for me according to Rivendell's current sizing standards.  So my 
>> questions is any one out there my size or thereabouts have any experience 
>> with the 53cm frame? To small or just right perhaps?  If so it would be 
>> great to hear about your experience on the 53.  I have been checking around 
>> and noticed that at one point in time the Atlantis was not listed as being 
>> made in 54.5 frame size and the 53 was recommended for someone my size. 
>> (wring hands)  !)
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] OAC Rambler Ride Report

[Peter Morgano]

Its a beautiful bike but aside from the special mounts for the pauls is it
really functionally different from the polyvalent MKII?

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/frames/polyvalent-mkii.html


On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 12:57 AM, velomann  wrote:

> I'm the proud owner of a sunflower yellow 650b Rambler and I am absolutely
> thrilled with it. I only got it built up in October and have yet to get it
> out on a real "ramble", but my country-ish commute has me putting about 125
> very enjoyable miles/ week on this bike, and my affection for it just grows
> and grows. I'll get a blog post up in the next couple weeks, after some
> longer rides (yea Christmas break!), but I'll echo much of what was said
> regarding thoughtful design and Rob being the nicest guy to work with. Or
> have breakfast with.
>
> Fwiw, the threadless steerer and Paul center pulls we're selling points
> for me, as was the fact that it was US made ( in my hometown no less). And
> when I started down the road a couple years ago considering custom,
> semi-custom, whatever - I realized I'm not a lug snob; that the quality of
> the ride is far more important to me. On that note, the skinny tubing makes
> the Rambler a very sweet and smooth ride. Not whippy, but definitely
> flexible in all the right ways. I won't use the "P" word, but it's there.
>
> Some pics here:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8199310@N04/sets/72157635510941022/
>
> Mike
>
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Re: [RBW] OAC Rambler Ride Report

[cyclotourist]

Functionally I don't know, but hand made in Portland, OR vs. assembly
line made in Taiwan, along with supporting an upstanding guy I like to
ride bikes with are two huge plusses for me.

On 12/17/13, Peter Morgano  wrote:
> Its a beautiful bike but aside from the special mounts for the pauls is it
> really functionally different from the polyvalent MKII?
>
> http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/frames/polyvalent-mkii.html
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 12:57 AM, velomann  wrote:
>
>> I'm the proud owner of a sunflower yellow 650b Rambler and I am
>> absolutely
>> thrilled with it. I only got it built up in October and have yet to get
>> it
>> out on a real "ramble", but my country-ish commute has me putting about
>> 125
>> very enjoyable miles/ week on this bike, and my affection for it just
>> grows
>> and grows. I'll get a blog post up in the next couple weeks, after some
>> longer rides (yea Christmas break!), but I'll echo much of what was said
>> regarding thoughtful design and Rob being the nicest guy to work with. Or
>> have breakfast with.
>>
>> Fwiw, the threadless steerer and Paul center pulls we're selling points
>> for me, as was the fact that it was US made ( in my hometown no less).
>> And
>> when I started down the road a couple years ago considering custom,
>> semi-custom, whatever - I realized I'm not a lug snob; that the quality
>> of
>> the ride is far more important to me. On that note, the skinny tubing
>> makes
>> the Rambler a very sweet and smooth ride. Not whippy, but definitely
>> flexible in all the right ways. I won't use the "P" word, but it's there.
>>
>> Some pics here:
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8199310@N04/sets/72157635510941022/
>>
>> Mike
>>
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>
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David

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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