Request for opinions: A cross language development tool
* Hey! I would like to know your opinions about a project a friend and I have been developing for about a year now, which we really think could empower Python. Today Python is mostly used on servers. Many people who want to develop an app will choose Python to write the backend and develop frontends in Java, Swift, Javascript, etc. We think Python is great, and we don't see why we shouldn't be able to write a native iOS, Android or web app entirely in Python. After all, these languages share the same concepts, more or less (classes, functions, exceptions, etc) and what really separates them is syntax. We're proposing a new approach: developers will code in their favorite language, such as Python (woot woot!), and be able to import Java, Swift and Javascript code from Python, and use that code as if it were written in Python. Python code will run on just about any platform, including the web. ** So how does this magic work? We developed a new compiler platform called Bridge. At the heart of Bridge is the Bridge Extensible Code Representation (BECR). Code in any language is parsed into an AST and is then translated to the BECR. The BECR supports common programming concepts (if, for, while, etc) and it can also be extended to support new concepts in order to ease the translation from the source language. Therefore, the translation from the source language’s AST to the BECR is easy as it**merely translates syntax. Then, Bridge translates the BECR to LLVM IR and from there the code can be compiled to x86, arm, asm.js or any other LLVM backend*. *After code has been translated to BECR, it doesn’t matter what the source language was, and the syntax barriers that stopped languages from working together disappear. This means that once more languages will be translated to the BECR, they will be able to work seamlessly together. ** Today, we have a basic demo showing an Android app written in Python displaying native Android buttons and labels inside a native scroll view. In this demo, Python code can import Java classes and inherit from them. Soon Bridge will be released as an open source project. We’d love to hear your opinions about this project. We’re really excited and we can’t wait to see Python being used in more and more places! ** Thanks, Tal** * -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Request for opinions: A cross language development tool
On 06/21/2016 03:39 PM, Christian Gollwitzer wrote: Am 21.06.16 um 14:10 schrieb Tal Zion: develop frontends in Java, Swift, Javascript, etc. > So how does this magic work? We developed a new compiler platform called Bridge. At the heart of Bridge is the Bridge Extensible Code Representation (BECR). Code in any language is parsed into an AST and is then translated to the BECR. [.] easy as it**merely translates syntax. Then, Bridge translates the BECR to LLVM IR and from there the code can be compiled to x86, arm, asm.js or any other LLVM backend*. So you have repeated .NET, or Parrot, or the JVM. What is new in your system that sets it apart from these? Soon Bridge will be released as an open source project. We’d love to hear your opinions about this project. We’re really excited and we can’t wait to see Python being used in more and more places! Make sure you can do better than those: http://ironpython.net/ (Python on .NET) http://parrot.org/ (Python on the Perl-VM) http://www.jython.org/ (Python on the JVM) All of those projects promise a seamless integration of several languages in a single VM. ALl of them have failed in the sense that the languages have not converged onto that platform. Christian Hi Christian, Thank you for your opinion, it is much appreciated. There are similarities but there are also a few important implementation differences: * It is easier to add languages to Bridge than it is to any of the above platforms: In order to make Python run on those platforms, those projects needed to write a compiler from Python to those platforms' respective intermediate languages. That is a very hard task. In Bridge, we provide the BECR, which makes it easy to re-use concepts implemented in other languages. For example, after we are done adding enough concepts to the BECR to compile 100% of Python's features, adding Ruby will be relatively easy as there are many similar concepts between the two languages. * Bridge enables Python code to interact with more languages through our external interfaces: Bridge code can interact with libraries not compiled to Bridge. So Python code will be able to call Swift, Objective-C, Java, and C code, to name a few, even if they weren't compiled to Bridge. * Bridge integrates with CPython in order to provide the same experience developers are used to: There are many Python modules written in C which are not usable in the above platforms. In Bridge you can use any CPython module. So when you are creating a Python list in Bridge, you are actually using CPython's list implementation. * Bridge makes Python faster: Python code compiled through Bridge is compiled to native code. Because we are leveraging LLVM's many optimizations, Python code will run faster than ever. * Bridge is more hackable: Using plugins, Bridge is much more accessible to community participation. Most importantly, Bridge will enable Python code to run on many new platforms (iOS, Android, web browsers..), while none of the above platforms provide this ability. We aren't looking to compete with CPython, but rather to complement it. Tal -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Request for opinions: A cross language development tool
Bridge compiles Python modules into native code, which requires us to support Python *language* features (for, while, class, generators, etc) but it reuses CPython's libraries (list, dict, str, etc) so we don't implement those, and it also uses CPython's ast module in order to parse Python code. So once we are done supporting all of the language features, any Python code should work. Currently we have quite a few language features to implement, but we're working on it =) We're targeting Python 3.5. Tal On 06/21/2016 08:36 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 12:06 AM, Tal Zion wrote: * Bridge makes Python faster: Python code compiled through Bridge is compiled to native code. Because we are leveraging LLVM's many optimizations, Python code will run faster than ever. Can you run *any* Python program through Bridge? Absolutely anything? Can you guarantee language compatibility? And if you can - what version of Python are you compatible with? ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Request for opinions: A cross language development tool
We use CPython's implementation of exec and eval. Tal On 06/21/2016 09:26 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 4:01 AM, Tal Zion wrote: Bridge compiles Python modules into native code, which requires us to support Python *language* features (for, while, class, generators, etc) but it reuses CPython's libraries (list, dict, str, etc) so we don't implement those, and it also uses CPython's ast module in order to parse Python code. So once we are done supporting all of the language features, any Python code should work. Currently we have quite a few language features to implement, but we're working on it =) We're targeting Python 3.5. Okay, so how do you handle exec and eval? ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
