Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
Op 16-04-15 om 19:10 schreef Steven D'Aprano: > On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 08:51 pm, BartC wrote: > >> On 16/04/2015 06:49, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >>> On Thursday 16 April 2015 14:07, Blake McBride wrote: Is there a utility that will allow me to write Python-like code that includes some block delimiter that I can see, that converts the code into runnable Python code? If so, where can I find it? >>> No more bugs from accidentally forgetting to use optional braces! >> You get bugs instead from mistakenly using the wrong indentation or >> losing the correct indentation (accidentally pressing the wrong key for >> example). > That's nothing! Python gives you absolutely no protection from accidentally > typing: > > > x += 1 > > when you actually wanted: > >y -= 2 I find this a bit disingenuous. Each time assignment as an expression comes up, so that it would be possible to have an assignment in a if or while condition, few of the regulars seem to have a problem with the argument that the current choice protects against a particular kind of bug. The fact that braces protect against a kind of bug you care less about, is just your preference. That doesn't mean a different preference is somehow worthy of ridicule. Mistakes of all kinds happen and I see no reason to ridicule someone for wishing protect against one kind of mistake, while yourself having the protection you like. -- Antoon Pardon -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Great Math Mystery
>> In an altercation with the police, complying with their orders greatly >> increases your chances of survival. > > Ah, the definition of a police state: where ordinary people, whether > breaking the law or not, are forced by fear of death to obey the police at > all times, whether the police are acting legally or not. I think you are grossly mischaracterizing that sentence of the OP. He simply makes an observation: in an altercation with the police, complying with their orders greatly increases your chances of survival. Is this observation/statement true or false? Based on empirical data from the past 50 years (in the US and elsewhere) I'd say it's true by a huge margin. The OP didn't make any value judgements on this statement whether he advocates for compliance or not, whether he encourages the establishment of a police state or not, whether he thinks compliance is a good thing or not. For all we know he might be a flaming anarchist with a keen sense of observing empirical facts. Cheers, Daniel -- Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Great Math Mystery
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 11:47:06 +0200, Fetchinson . wrote: >>> In an altercation with the police, complying with their orders greatly >>> increases your chances of survival. >> >> Ah, the definition of a police state: where ordinary people, whether >> breaking the law or not, are forced by fear of death to obey the police >> at all times, whether the police are acting legally or not. > > I think you are grossly mischaracterizing that sentence of the OP. He > simply makes an observation: in an altercation with the police, > complying with their orders greatly increases your chances of survival. > Is this observation/statement true or false? Based on empirical data > from the past 50 years (in the US and elsewhere) I'd say it's true by a > huge margin. > > The OP didn't make any value judgements on this statement whether he > advocates for compliance or not, whether he encourages the establishment > of a police state or not, whether he thinks compliance is a good thing > or not. > > For all we know he might be a flaming anarchist with a keen sense of > observing empirical facts. > > Cheers, > Daniel or simply using a fortune cookie program to generate random signatures, just ass I do, sometimes the result is quite spooky). ( i just took a look at mine for this post & was pleasantly surprised to see it is programming related) -- ((lambda (foo) (bar foo)) (baz)) -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
ANN: Python Meeting Düsseldorf - 29.04.2015
[This announcement is in German since it targets a local user group meeting in Düsseldorf, Germany] ANKÜNDIGUNG Python Meeting Düsseldorf http://pyddf.de/ Ein Treffen von Python Enthusiasten und Interessierten in ungezwungener Atmosphäre. Dienstag, 29.04.2015, 18:00 Uhr Raum 1, 2.OG im Bürgerhaus Stadtteilzentrum Bilk Düsseldorfer Arcaden, Bachstr. 145, 40217 Düsseldorf Diese Nachricht ist auch online verfügbar: http://www.egenix.com/company/news/Python-Meeting-Duesseldorf-2015-04-29 NEUIGKEITEN * Bereits angemeldete Vorträge: Johannes Spielmann "Nachrichtenprotokolle in Python" Matthias Endler "The State of PyPy" Charlie Clark "Die Kunst des Nichtstun: Eine Einführung in Profiling" "et_xmlfile: Valides XML schreiben mit niedrigem Speicherbedarf" Marc-Andre Lemburg "SSL in Python 2.7.9" "YouTube Feed mit feedparser auswerten" Weitere Vorträge können gerne noch angemeldet werden: i...@pyddf.de * Startzeit und Ort: Wir treffen uns um 18:00 Uhr im Bürgerhaus in den Düsseldorfer Arcaden. Das Bürgerhaus teilt sich den Eingang mit dem Schwimmbad und befindet sich an der Seite der Tiefgarageneinfahrt der Düsseldorfer Arcaden. Über dem Eingang steht ein großes Schwimm'in Bilk Logo. Hinter der Tür direkt links zu den zwei Aufzügen, dann in den 2. Stock hochfahren. Der Eingang zum Raum 1 liegt direkt links, wenn man aus dem Aufzug kommt. Google Street View: http://bit.ly/11sCfiw EINLEITUNG Das Python Meeting Düsseldorf ist eine regelmäßige Veranstaltung in Düsseldorf, die sich an Python Begeisterte aus der Region wendet: * http://pyddf.de/ Einen guten Überblick über die Vorträge bietet unser YouTube-Kanal, auf dem wir die Vorträge nach den Meetings veröffentlichen: * http://www.youtube.com/pyddf/ Veranstaltet wird das Meeting von der eGenix.com GmbH, Langenfeld, in Zusammenarbeit mit Clark Consulting & Research, Düsseldorf: * http://www.egenix.com/ * http://www.clark-consulting.eu/ PROGRAMM Das Python Meeting Düsseldorf nutzt eine Mischung aus Open Space und Lightning Talks, wobei die Gewitter bei uns auch schon mal 20 Minuten dauern können ;-). Lightning Talks können vorher angemeldet werden, oder auch spontan während des Treffens eingebracht werden. Ein Beamer mit XGA Auflösung steht zur Verfügung. Folien bitte als PDF auf USB Stick mitbringen. Lightning Talk Anmeldung bitte formlos per EMail an i...@pyddf.de KOSTENBETEILIGUNG Das Python Meeting Düsseldorf wird von Python Nutzern für Python Nutzer veranstaltet. Um die Kosten zumindest teilweise zu refinanzieren, bitten wir die Teilnehmer um einen Beitrag in Höhe von EUR 10,00 inkl. 19% Mwst, Schüler und Studenten zahlen EUR 5,00 inkl. 19% Mwst. Wir möchten alle Teilnehmer bitten, den Betrag in bar mitzubringen. ANMELDUNG Da wir nur für ca. 20 Personen Sitzplätze haben, möchten wir bitten, sich per EMail anzumelden. Damit wird keine Verpflichtung eingegangen. Es erleichtert uns allerdings die Planung. Meeting Anmeldung bitte formlos per EMail an i...@pyddf.de WEITERE INFORMATIONEN Weitere Informationen finden Sie auf der Webseite des Meetings: http://pyddf.de/ Mit freundlichen Grüßen, -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Apr 17 2015) >>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC Plone/Zope Database Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/ : Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! :: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
looking for students to take new online python course at no cost
Hi, (I apologize if this seems spammy, but I think this is a good opportunity for beginning python programmers.) We are seeking candid feedback on a new python programming online course for beginners, and will randomly select students (lottery style/5 new students each month) who are new to python to take the course at no charge. For the course project, students code a web crawler and a simple search engine front-end to query the results from their crawl (stored in their personal back-end mysql db). Some of the python libraries covered/utilized in the course include urllib2, BeautifulSoup 4 (bs4), robotparser, numpy and mysql.connector. There is no compiler to install because the student development environment (used to edit, save and run python program files) is 100% web-based...meaning, only a web browser is needed to access. Here is the link to the sign-up form - http://www.livefirelabs.com/python-online-course.htm [1] ... and details about the course are here - http://www.livefirelabs.com/learn-python-programming-01.htm [2] The next new student selection, as indicated on the sign-up web page, is May 1, 2015. Thanks! biker Links: -- [1] http://www.livefirelabs.com/python-online-course.htm [2] http://www.livefirelabs.com/learn-python-programming-01.htm -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Converting text file to different encoding.
I am having few files in default encoding. I wanted to change their encodings,
preferably in "UTF-8", or may be from one encoding to any other encoding.
I was trying it as follows,
>>> import codecs
>>> sourceEncoding = "iso-8859-1"
>>> targetEncoding = "utf-8"
>>> source = open("source1","w")
>>> target = open("target", "w")
>>> target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
but it was giving me error as follows,
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, file found
If anybody may kindly suggest how may I solve it.
Regards,
Subhabrata Banerjee.
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Re: Converting text file to different encoding.
On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 6:50:08 PM UTC+5:30, subhabrat...@gmail.com wrote:
> I am having few files in default encoding. I wanted to change their
> encodings,
> preferably in "UTF-8", or may be from one encoding to any other encoding.
>
> I was trying it as follows,
>
>>>> import codecs
>>>> sourceEncoding = "iso-8859-1"
>>>> targetEncoding = "utf-8"
>>>> source = open("source1","w")
Do you want "w" or "r" ?
>>>> target = open("target", "w")
>>>> target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
>
> but it was giving me error as follows,
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "", line 1, in
> target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
> TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, file found
>
> If anybody may kindly suggest how may I solve it.
>
> Regards,
> Subhabrata Banerjee.
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Re: Converting text file to different encoding.
On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 6:50:08 PM UTC+5:30, subhabrat...@gmail.com wrote:
> I am having few files in default encoding. I wanted to change their
> encodings,
> preferably in "UTF-8", or may be from one encoding to any other encoding.
>
> I was trying it as follows,
>
>>>> import codecs
>>>> sourceEncoding = "iso-8859-1"
>>>> targetEncoding = "utf-8"
>>>> source = open("source1","w")
>>>> target = open("target", "w")
>>>> target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
>
> but it was giving me error as follows,
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "", line 1, in
> target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
> TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, file found
>
> If anybody may kindly suggest how may I solve it.
>
> Regards,
> Subhabrata Banerjee.
As an ace coder you may know better than me what I would need, but if you have
any roundabout or hint you may give I will practice to see if I may port it.
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Immediate Hire: Liferay Developer - Remote
Hi, Hope you are doing well, This is Raj from International Systems Technologies. Please find the requirement below and let me know you interest on this position on nagar...@intsystech.com or feel free to call me on D:908-333-3540 Please Requirement: Role: Liferay Develoeper Location: Remote Rate: $50-55/hr on C2C 1. Java: minimum of 3 years 2. Liferay: minimum of 2 years 3. Total IT experience minimum of 5 years Thanks & Best Regards? Raju International Systems Technologies Inc. 10 Corporate place south.| Suite 203 | Piscataway, NJ 08854 | D:908-333-3540 |Fax:732-348-9533| E-mail: nagar...@intsystech.com | URL: www.intsystech.com -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Converting text file to different encoding.
On 17 April 2015 at 14:51, wrote:
> On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 6:50:08 PM UTC+5:30, subhabrat...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>> I am having few files in default encoding. I wanted to change their
>> encodings,
>> preferably in "UTF-8", or may be from one encoding to any other encoding.
>>
>> I was trying it as follows,
>>
>>>>> import codecs
>>>>> sourceEncoding = "iso-8859-1"
>>>>> targetEncoding = "utf-8"
>>>>> source = open("source1","w")
>>>>> target = open("target", "w")
>>>>> target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
>>
>> but it was giving me error as follows,
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>> File "", line 1, in
>> target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
>> TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, file found
The error comes from `unicode(source, sourceEncoding)` and results
from the fact that source is a file object when it should be a string.
To read the contents of the file as a string just change `source` to
`source.read()`.
Oscar
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Re: [Conferences] PyCon Mexico
I did that site, with the hope of rallying the troops to create a Summit in Cancun about Python. However there were factors that slow the process down and the project became idle after november. On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 11:05 PM, Pythonízame MX wrote: > Hello, my Name is Alex Dzul. > > Python /Django Programmer and actively support the Python community in > Spanish. > > > - http://pythoniza.me > - https://www.youtube.com/user/pythonizame > - https://www.youtube.com/user/alexexc2 > > > I wonder about the possibility of doing an event here in Mexico (PyCon > Mexico). > > - What do we need to do it in our country? > - Who is the contact to talk about it? > > I recently found this page http://pycon.mx/ but I don't know if it is > real. > > > Thanks for your attention. > > ___ > Python Conferences mailing list: conferen...@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/conferences > > This is an open list with open archives; sensitive or confidential > information should not be discussed here. > -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor 882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614 -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Immediate Hire: Liferay Developer - Remote
On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 9:02 AM, nagaraju thoudoju < nagarajuusstaff...@gmail.com> wrote: > 1. Java: minimum of 3 years > > 2. Liferay: minimum of 2 years > > 3. Total IT experience minimum of 5 years > Raju, You recently posted another position which had nothing to do with Python. I replied privately to that post. Others replied here. Please stop posting inappropriate content for this list. Your posts do nothing but give people a bad impression of you and the company you represent. I am adding your company's contact email to this response. Hopefully someone there will notice and discuss the matter with you. If what I have written is at all unclear, feel free to call me (847-971-7098). I would be happy to discuss this with you, especially if it means you quit spamming python-list@python.org. Skip Montanaro -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Converting text file to different encoding.
On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 7:36:46 PM UTC+5:30, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
> wrote:
> > On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 6:50:08 PM UTC+5:30, wrote:
> >> I am having few files in default encoding. I wanted to change their
> >> encodings,
> >> preferably in "UTF-8", or may be from one encoding to any other encoding.
> >>
> >> I was trying it as follows,
> >>
> >>>>> import codecs
> >>>>> sourceEncoding = "iso-8859-1"
> >>>>> targetEncoding = "utf-8"
> >>>>> source = open("source1","w")
> >>>>> target = open("target", "w")
> >>>>> target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
> >>
> >> but it was giving me error as follows,
> >> Traceback (most recent call last):
> >> File "", line 1, in
> >> target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
> >> TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, file found
>
> The error comes from `unicode(source, sourceEncoding)` and results
> from the fact that source is a file object when it should be a string.
> To read the contents of the file as a string just change `source` to
> `source.read()`.
>
>
> Oscar
I tried to do as follows,
>>> import codecs
>>> sourceEncoding = "iso-8859-1"
>>> targetEncoding = "utf-8"
>>> source = open("source1","w")
>>> string1="String type"
>>> str1=str(string1)
>>> source.write(str1)
>>> source.close()
>>> target = open("target", "w")
>>> source=open("source1","r")
>>> target.write(unicode(source.read(), sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
>>>
am I going ok?
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Re: Converting text file to different encoding.
On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 12:26 AM, wrote:
> I tried to do as follows,
import codecs
sourceEncoding = "iso-8859-1"
targetEncoding = "utf-8"
source = open("source1","w")
string1="String type"
str1=str(string1)
source.write(str1)
source.close()
target = open("target", "w")
source=open("source1","r")
target.write(unicode(source.read(), sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
>
> am I going ok?
Here's how I'd do it.
$ python3
>>> with open("source1", encoding="iso-8859-1") as source, open("target", "w",
>>> encoding="utf-8") as target:
... target.write(source.read())
Or maybe this:
$ pike
> Stdio.write_file("target", string_to_utf8(Stdio.read_file("source1")));
So much easier than fiddling around with all those steps you're doing.
I'm not sure what they're all for, anyway; calling str() on a
double-quoted literal isn't usually going to do anything, and I don't
see "from __future__ import unicode_literals" anywhere.
ChrisA
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Re: Converting text file to different encoding.
On 04/17/2015 09:19 AM, subhabrata.bane...@gmail.com wrote:
I am having few files in default encoding. I wanted to change their encodings,
preferably in "UTF-8", or may be from one encoding to any other encoding.
You neglected to specify what Python version this is for. Other
information that'd be useful is whether the file size is small enough
that two copies of it will all fit reasonably into memory.
I'll assume it's version 2.7, because of various clues in your sample
code. But if it's version 3.x, it could be substantially easier.
I was trying it as follows,
>>> import codecs
>>> sourceEncoding = "iso-8859-1"
>>> targetEncoding = "utf-8"
>>> source = open("source1","w")
mode "w" will truncate the source1 file, leaving you nothing to process.
i'd suggest "r"
>>> target = open("target", "w")
It's not usually a good idea to use the same variable for both the file
name and the opened file object. What if you need later to print the
name, as in an error message?
>>> target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
I'd not recommend trying to do so much in one line, at least until you
understand all the pieces. Programming is not (usually) a contest to
write the most obscure code, but rather to make a program you can still
read and understand six months from now. And, oh yeah, something that
will run and accomplish something.
>
> but it was giving me error as follows,
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>File "", line 1, in
> target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
> TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, file found
if you factor this you will discover your error. Nowhere do you read
the source file into a byte string. And that's what is needed for the
unicode constructor. Factored, you might have something like:
encodedtext = source.read()
text = unicode(source, sourceEncoding)
reencodedtext = text.encode(targetEncoding)
target.write(encodedText)
Next, you need to close the files.
source.close()
target.close()
There are a number of ways to improve that code, but this is a start.
Improvements:
Use codecs.open() to open the files, so encoding is handled
implicitly in the file objects.
Use with... syntax so that the file closes are implicit
read and write the files in a loop, a line at a time, so that you
needn't have all the data in memory (at least twice) at one time. This
will also help enormously if you encounter any errors, and want to
report the location and problem to the user. It might even turn out to
be faster.
You should write non-trivial code in a text file, and run it from
there.
--
DaveA
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Re: Converting text file to different encoding.
Chris Angelico :
> Here's how I'd do it.
>
> $ python3
with open("source1", encoding="iso-8859-1") as source,
>> open("target", "w", encoding="utf-8") as target:
> ... target.write(source.read())
You might run out of memory. How about:
#!/usr/bin/env python3
import shutil
shutil.copyfileobj(
open("source1", encoding="iso-8859-1"),
open("target", "w", encoding="utf-8"))
Marko
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Re: Converting text file to different encoding.
On 04/17/2015 10:48 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
On 04/17/2015 09:19 AM, subhabrata.bane...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> target = open("target", "w")
It's not usually a good idea to use the same variable for both the file
name and the opened file object. What if you need later to print the
name, as in an error message?
Oops, my error. Somehow my brain didn't notice the quote marks, until I
reread my own message online.
--
DaveA
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Re: Great Math Mystery
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 07:47 pm, Fetchinson . wrote: >>> In an altercation with the police, complying with their orders greatly >>> increases your chances of survival. >> >> Ah, the definition of a police state: where ordinary people, whether >> breaking the law or not, are forced by fear of death to obey the police >> at all times, whether the police are acting legally or not. > > I think you are grossly mischaracterizing that sentence of the OP. He > simply makes an observation: in an altercation with the police, > complying with their orders greatly increases your chances of > survival. Is this observation/statement true or false? Based on > empirical data from the past 50 years (in the US and elsewhere) I'd > say it's true by a huge margin. Which is *exactly my point*. "Failure to obey arbitrary commands from random police officers, whether legally justified or not, may carry the penalty of summary execution at the discretion of the officer" is a defining characteristic of police states. I made no comment on the OP's intention for making that statement. Perhaps he was making an ironic comment on the state of US law enforcement; perhaps he thinks he is being genuinely helpful; perhaps this is his way of mocking those killed. I don't know. Whether he is a fascist who thinks police states are wonderful, or a liberal who thinks they are terrible, he described a police state. Whether he knew it at the time or not. -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Converting text file to different encoding.
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 12:26 AM, wrote:
>> I tried to do as follows,
> import codecs
> sourceEncoding = "iso-8859-1"
> targetEncoding = "utf-8"
> source = open("source1","w")
> string1="String type"
> str1=str(string1)
> source.write(str1)
> source.close()
> target = open("target", "w")
> source=open("source1","r")
> target.write(unicode(source.read(),
> sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
>
>>
>> am I going ok?
>
> Here's how I'd do it.
>
> $ python3
with open("source1", encoding="iso-8859-1") as source, open("target",
"w", encoding="utf-8") as target:
> ... target.write(source.read())
This approach is also viable in Python 2.6 and 2.7 if you use io.open()
instead of the builtin.
To limit memory consumption for big files you can replace
target.write(source.read())
with
shutil.copyfileobj(source, target)
If you want to be sure that line endings are preserved open both files with
io.open(..., newline="") # disable newline translation
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Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
On 04/16/2015 08:52 AM, Blake McBride wrote: > Thanks for all the responses. I especially like the Pike pointer. > To be clear: > > 1. I don't think languages should depend on invisible elements to > determine logic. > > 2. Having been an employer, it is difficult to force programmers to > use any particular editor or style. Different editors handle tabs > and spaces differently. This is all a bloody nightmare with Python. > > 3. Languages that use braces (or the like) can be run through a > program beautifier to correct the indentation. You are just screwed > in Python. So, Python may be a cute language for you to use as an > individual, but it is unwieldy in a real development environment. > > 4. Language beautifiers used on bracey languages removes all > arguments in favor of an off-side language. While it appears that you had already made up your mind about the matter long before posting, and perhaps was just looking for vindication, I feel that some of the snide replies you got were just not tremendously professional. However, it may be that people recognized that you likely had made up your mind already, and posted accordingly. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
On 2015-04-17, Michael Torrie wrote: > On 04/16/2015 08:52 AM, Blake McBride wrote: >> Thanks for all the responses. I especially like the Pike pointer. >> To be clear: > [troll bait elided] > While it appears that you had already made up your mind about the > matter long before posting, and perhaps was just looking for > vindication, I feel that some of the snide replies you got were just > not tremendously professional. There are people who post to Usenet professionally? And I've been doing it all these years _for_free_? And, it's not like there's some sort of Olympics for which I needed to maintain my amateur standing. > However, it may be that people recognized that you likely had made up > your mind already, and posted accordingly. I think most of us just assumed he was just trolling and were playing along for the fun of it. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! As President I have at to go vacuum my coin gmail.comcollection! -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
On 17/04/2015 17:28, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2015-04-17, Michael Torrie wrote: However, it may be that people recognized that you likely had made up your mind already, and posted accordingly. I think most of us just assumed he was just trolling and were playing along for the fun of it. What was troll-like about it? The OP made it clear he didn't like the way Python made use of tabs, but he didn't want an argument about it or to be persuaded to change his mind or change anyone else's. He wanted to know if there was a simple syntax wrapper for it. That seems reasonable enough. (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.) -- Bartc -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 10:36:13 PM UTC+5:30, BartC wrote: > (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have > switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.) Mess in programming syntax is because of html: http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/html-is-why-mess-in-programming-syntax.html -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Failed to import a "pyd: File When python intepreter embed in C++ project
I have a swig module (.pyd).I followed the steps but it doesn't work please help me. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
We are happy to announce that we will be hosting a Django Girls Workshop during the EuroPython 2015. It will take place on 20th of July, the first day of the conference. We believe in the work that this group is doing to bring more women into technology, and we will work towards making EuroPython 2015 enjoyable and welcoming for these beginner programmers. The workshop is free of charge and you must register through their registration form; some financial aid for travel to Bilbao can be provided: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OEG1vpOa0fJWaGi81KLvoWloxbhKQW_ufp5Fb2j3QTc/viewform?c=0&w=1 The application process closes on May 31st, 2015. The workshop is organized and coached by volunteers. If you or your company would like to contribute by sponsoring, coaching, or any other help you can provide, please email the organizers at bil...@djangogirls.org. Check out their website for more information: http://djangogirls.org/europython2015/ Enjoy, -- EuroPython 2015 Team http://ep2015.europython.eu/ -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Failed to import a "pyd: File When python intepreter embed in C++ project
On 4/17/2015 10:17 AM, saadaouijihed1...@gmail.com wrote: I have a swig module (.pyd).I followed the steps but it doesn't work please help me. Start here: http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Emile -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 10:06:13 AM UTC-7, BartC wrote:
> On 17/04/2015 17:28, Grant Edwards wrote:
> > On 2015-04-17, Michael Torrie wrote:
>
> >> However, it may be that people recognized that you likely had made up
> >> your mind already, and posted accordingly.
> >
> > I think most of us just assumed he was just trolling and were playing
> > along for the fun of it.
>
> What was troll-like about it? The OP made it clear he didn't like the
> way Python made use of tabs, but he didn't want an argument about it or
> to be persuaded to change his mind or change anyone else's.
>
> He wanted to know if there was a simple syntax wrapper for it. That
> seems reasonable enough.
>
> (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have
> switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.)
>
> --
> Bartc
Allowing a switchable syntax only makes the fight even worse. If you made
braces in Python an option to use instead of whitespace block delimiting, then
there'd be a ton of infighting among Python developers over which to use. Just
look at C/C++ developers fighting over where the opening brace goes.
By having the language itself forcing a specific style, it requires everyone
using it to either shut up and get over it, or just don't use the language.
Personally, I like the Python style. It forces people to write code that is at
least somewhat good to look at. Not like monstrosities like this that I see
from newbie (hell, even professional) C/C++ programmers:
if (something > something_else)
{
result = do_something();
if (!result){
printf("Error!\n")
return 0;
}
do_other_stuff();
}
Can someone still write ugly code in Python? No doubt about it. But at least
code blocks will be easily deciphered.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Great Math Mystery
On 04/17/2015 11:03 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 07:47 pm, Fetchinson . wrote: >>>In an altercation with the police, complying with their orders greatly >>>increases your chances of survival. >> >>Ah, the definition of a police state: where ordinary people, whether >>breaking the law or not, are forced by fear of death to obey the police >>at all times, whether the police are acting legally or not. > >I think you are grossly mischaracterizing that sentence of the OP. He >simply makes an observation: in an altercation with the police, >complying with their orders greatly increases your chances of >survival. Is this observation/statement true or false? Based on >empirical data from the past 50 years (in the US and elsewhere) I'd >say it's true by a huge margin. Which is*exactly my point*. "Failure to obey arbitrary commands from random police officers, whether legally justified or not, may carry the penalty of summary execution at the discretion of the officer" is a defining characteristic of police states. This is but one subset of the possibilities that could lead to the same valid advise. Keep in mind that many officers are citizens too, at least where I live, who have jobs that put them in extremely dangerous situations fairly often. Taking too long to rationally think about a situation could mean the police officer is shot instead of the criminal with a gun. There are some combinations of conditions that will result in a certain percentage of outcomes of a certain kind. I think the original statement (Quite possibly from a fortune cookie program.) recognises that concept (as well as yours.) Take a thousand officers, each who respond to a thousand calls a year, and there will be a few (very tragic) mistakes. (and hopefully many more fortunate interventions.) We can maybe shift the proportion of mistakes vs interventions, but I don't see how training officers to shoot after being shot is a good idea. We will likely need to pay a whole lot more to get people to take those jobs. Of course it does not excuse willing abuse of authority. Most cases of police power abuse here are more likely to be related to an individual officers state of mind and/or motives at the time rather than being due to instructions higher up. Possibly there is a way to use Python and statistics to calculate some of these values. With data of course... Number of officers. number of responses. Percent of responses where suspects have deadly weapons. Percent of incorrect judgements within some critical time frame by people in safe conditions. Percentage of incorrect judgements of people in dangerous conditions. Percentage of incorrect judgements of people in safe, but perceived dangerousness conditions.. etc... Would be possible to calculate a norm or average from that kind of info? It is also the type of number people don't want to know about or discuss. -Ron I made no comment on the OP's intention for making that statement. Perhaps he was making an ironic comment on the state of US law enforcement; perhaps he thinks he is being genuinely helpful; perhaps this is his way of mocking those killed. I don't know. Whether he is a fascist who thinks police states are wonderful, or a liberal who thinks they are terrible, he described a police state. Whether he knew it at the time or not. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 1:25:51 PM UTC-4, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > We are happy to announce that we will be hosting a Django Girls Workshop > during the EuroPython 2015. It will take place on 20th of July, the > first day of the conference. > > We believe in the work that this group is doing to bring more women > into technology, and we will work towards making EuroPython 2015 > enjoyable and welcoming for these beginner programmers. If your target audience is women, I think you should have termed it the Django Womens Workshop rather than the Django Girls Workshop. Referring to adults as children can be seen as condescending. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
sohcahto...@gmail.com: > Can someone still write ugly code in Python? No doubt about it. But at > least code blocks will be easily deciphered. That's how I was originally convinced about Python: a coworker with a terrible C++ "handwriting" produced neat, legible code in Python. I'm still slightly annoyed by some downsides in the indentation style, but the practical benefits more than compensate. Also, the semicolon rules of JavaScript and Go are horrible compared with the simple line continuation rules of Python. Marko -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
beliav...@aol.com: > If your target audience is women, I think you should have termed it > the Django Womens Workshop rather than the Django Girls Workshop. > Referring to adults as children can be seen as condescending. You got it wrong. The name is not offensive. However, it suffers from two serious problems: * You might think it's for children only. * The name's missing an apostrophe. Marko -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > beliav...@aol.com: > >> If your target audience is women, I think you should have termed it >> the Django Womens Workshop rather than the Django Girls Workshop. >> Referring to adults as children can be seen as condescending. > > You got it wrong. The name is not offensive. Most adult woman I know take offense at being called a girl. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 3:05 AM, BartC wrote: > (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have switchable > syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.) Why do it? What's the advantage of calling two different syntaxes one language? Simpler to just call them two separate languages - maybe two languages that share some sort of runtime, but two languages. For instance, Java bytecode doesn't have to be created from Java source code, but we don't consider NetRexx to be a "switchable syntax" for Java. It's a completely separate language that compiles to a .class file. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
On 17/04/2015 20:35, beliav...@aol.com.dmarc.invalid wrote: On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 1:25:51 PM UTC-4, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: We are happy to announce that we will be hosting a Django Girls Workshop during the EuroPython 2015. It will take place on 20th of July, the first day of the conference. We believe in the work that this group is doing to bring more women into technology, and we will work towards making EuroPython 2015 enjoyable and welcoming for these beginner programmers. If your target audience is women, I think you should have termed it the Django Womens Workshop rather than the Django Girls Workshop. Referring to adults as children can be seen as condescending. http://djangogirls.org/ -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
ANN: Leo 5.1-final. PIM, scripting Python IDE, Outliner
http://leoeditor.com/";>Leo 5.1 final is now available at http://sourceforge.net/projects/leo/files/Leo/";>SourceForge. Leo is Open Software, using the http://leoeditor.com/license.html";>MIT License. Leo 5.1-final is recommended for anyone using Leo 5.1 b1 or Leo 5.0-final. The highlights of Leo 5.1 This release features @clean, one of the most important developments in Leo's history. @clean nodes create external files without sentinel comments, yet Leo can update @clean trees from changes made to the corresponding external files. Steve Zatz explains http://leoeditor.com/testimonials.html#steve-zatz-explains-why-clean-changes-everything";>why @clean changes everything. More highlights @clean trees preserve clone links and user attributes (uA's). Reading @clean trees is faster than reading @auto or @shadow trees. A new http://leoeditor.com/load-leo.html";>web page displays .leo files in the browser. Added command history to Leo's minibuffer. A new IdleTime class greatly simplifies idle-time handling. Leo now honors @language inside @doc parts. @data nodes can be composed of their descendant nodes. Links The http://leoeditor.com/appendices.html#the-mulder-ream-update-algorithm";> Mulder/Ream algorithm updates @clean trees http://leoeditor.com";>Leo's home page http://leoeditor.com/leo_toc.html";>Documentation http://leoeditor.com/tutorial.html";>Tutorials http://leoeditor.com/screencasts.html";>Video tutorials http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor";>Forum http://sourceforge.net/projects/leo/files/";>Download https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor";>Leo on Github http://leoeditor.com/testimonials.html";>What people are saying about Leo http://leoeditor.com/load-leo.html";>A web page that displays .leo files http://leoeditor.com/leoLinks.html";>More links Edward K. Ream: mailto:edream...@gmail.com";>email. http://leoeditor.com/";>Leo 5.1 is a PIM, a Python scripting IDE and outliner. (16-Apr-15) -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
Marko Rauhamaa writes: > beliav...@aol.com: > > > If your target audience is women, I think you should have termed it > > the Django Womens Workshop rather than the Django Girls Workshop. > > Referring to adults as children can be seen as condescending. > > You got it wrong. The name is not offensive. It is not for you to say what is offensive to others. Further, nobody claimed it is “offensive”, so why raise that? The claim is that to call women “girls” is condenscending. -- \ “People always ask me, ‘Where were you when Kennedy was shot?’ | `\Well, I don't have an alibi.” —Emo Philips | _o__) | Ben Finney -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
On 4/17/2015 4:31 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: beliav...@aol.com: If your target audience is women, I think you should have termed it the Django Womens Workshop rather than the Django Girls Workshop. Referring to adults as children can be seen as condescending. Are all of you claiming this so ignorant that 'girls' is sometimes used to refer to adult women, just as 'boys' is someitmes used to refer to adult men? The co-founders of 'Django Girls', djangogirls.org, are two Polish females. Judging from their pictures on their twitter pages, they were perhaps in their 20s at the time. They love Python, are Django Core Developers, and want to share, especially with other women. They were *not* condescending themselves or other women. " We want to inspire women to fall in love with programming. So we organize free Python and Django workshops, create open sourced online tutorials and care about amazing first experiences. " You got it wrong. The name is not offensive. However, it suffers from two serious problems: * You might think it's for children only. I would not. * The name's missing an apostrophe. Nope. The organization is 'Django Girls', not 'Django Girl'. A Djange Girls Workshop is a workshop by and for Django Girls. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 5:29 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 4/17/2015 4:31 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >> * You might think it's for children only. > > > I would not. It was my first impression that it was targeted for children. There are a lot of STEM programs these days oriented toward girl children, and the name in combination with the second paragraph of the OP led me to believe that this was one of those. I think it's fair to say that the announcement could have been a bit clearer about the organization behind the event and about the intended audience. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Importing/migrating Mailman mbox files into Google Groups?
On 16Apr2015 08:32, Skip Montanaro wrote: Quite sometime ago (2011?), the classic-rendezvous mailing list, which had been hosted by a Mailman instance at bikelist.org, was reconstituted as a Google Group. Just a bunch of old bikies interested in vintage bikes. The original archives were never imported into the new group. (It might not have been possible at that time.) I suspect there might be a way to accomplish that today using some Google API like this: https://developers.google.com/admin-sdk/groups-migration/v1/reference/archive/insert Has anyone here attempted such a feat? I have no problem with the Python side of traversing the necessary mbox archive files, but have no experience with any of the Google APIs. Pointers appreciated... Hmm, I have never used these. However, before you get very excited see if people can get messages back out of the archive. A major annoyance for me with GGroups versus mailman is that if I join a group I cannot download the historical archive. (This is a standard step for me when I join a mailing list. I hear mailman 3 might be tossing this facility; I am unimpressed.) Returning to the original question, it looks like the uppload format is pretty simple. This page: https://developers.google.com/admin-sdk/groups-migration/v1/guides/manage-email-migrations#group_migration_media_upload which is linked to from your link seems to show an example. Cheers, Cameron Simpson Facts do not discourage the conspiracy-minded. - Robert Crawford -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Failed to import a "pyd: File When python intepreter embed in C++ project
On 04/17/2015 01:17 PM, saadaouijihed1...@gmail.com wrote: I have a swig module (.pyd).I followed the steps but it doesn't work please help me. First, unplug the computer and remove the battery. Then if it's still burning, douse it with a fire extinguisher. If your symptoms are different, you'll have to spell it out. Like Python version, OS, complete stack trace. And anything else that may be needed to diagnose the problem. -- DaveA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Need opinions on P vs NP
Having just seen Raymond's talk on Beyond PEP-8 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf-BqAjZb8M, it reminded me of my own recent post where I am soliciting opinions from non-newbies on the relative Pythonicity of different versions of a routine that has non-simple array manipulations. The blog post: http://paddy3118.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/pythonic-matrix-manipulation.html The first, (and original), code sample: def cholesky(A): L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))] for i in range(len(A)): for j in range(i+1): s = sum(L[i][k] * L[j][k] for k in range(j)) L[i][j] = sqrt(A[i][i] - s) if (i == j) else \ (1.0 / L[j][j] * (A[i][j] - s)) return L The second equivalent code sample: def cholesky2(A): L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))] for i, (Ai, Li) in enumerate(zip(A, L)): for j, Lj in enumerate(L[:i+1]): s = sum(Li[k] * Lj[k] for k in range(j)) Li[j] = sqrt(Ai[i] - s) if (i == j) else \ (1.0 / Lj[j] * (Ai[j] - s)) return L The third: def cholesky3(A): L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))] for i, (Ai, Li) in enumerate(zip(A, L)): for j, Lj in enumerate(L[:i]): #s = fsum(Li[k] * Lj[k] for k in range(j)) s = fsum(Lik * Ljk for Lik, Ljk in zip(Li, Lj[:j])) Li[j] = (1.0 / Lj[j] * (Ai[j] - s)) s = fsum(Lik * Lik for Lik in Li[:i]) Li[i] = sqrt(Ai[i] - s) return L My blog post gives a little more explanation, but I have yet to receive any comments on relative Pythonicity. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 18:05:52 +0100, BartC wrote: > (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have > switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.) You want LISP, the programmable programming language. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
On 04/17/2015 11:05 AM, BartC wrote: > He wanted to know if there was a simple syntax wrapper for it. That > seems reasonable enough. > > (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have > switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.) There was a version of Python (compatible at a bytecode level) that did implement braces for blocks. It was called pythonb, but it is now defunct, understandably for lack of interest. It was just a modification to the parser is all. So it's completely doable. In fact one could probably do it with a preprocessor of some kind. But there's little utility in it. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 23:31:42 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >beliav...@aol.com: > >> If your target audience is women, I think you should have termed it >> the Django Womens Workshop rather than the Django Girls Workshop. >> Referring to adults as children can be seen as condescending. > >You got it wrong. The name is not offensive. However, it suffers from >two serious problems: > > * You might think it's for children only. > > * The name's missing an apostrophe. > > >Marko They are not girls, they are purple penguins. PC can be taken too far... http://journalstar.com/news/local/education/lps-staff-s-transgender-training-concerns-parents/article_0b37dd75-758d-50c1-9deb-16901059bc5a.html -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
BartC writes: > (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have > switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.) Which people's personal preferences? Are these the same people who have such passionate disagreement about tabs versus spaces? If you only write programs that will only ever be read by you and no-one else, feel free to maintain a fork of Python (or any other language) that suits your personal preferences. Too much effort? Or maybe you sometimes want others, whose preferences may not exactly match yours, to collaborate on programs you write? Then I think you have your answer of why such personal perferences are not switchable in the languages we actually use. -- \ “It is the integrity of each individual human that is in final | `\examination. On personal integrity hangs humanity's fate.” | _o__) —Richard Buckminster Fuller, _Critical Path_, 1981 | Ben Finney -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 6:49:30 AM UTC+5:30, Dan Sommers wrote: > On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 18:05:52 +0100, BartC wrote: > > > (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have > > switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.) > > You want LISP, the programmable programming language. You got it!! One of the deep paradoxes in 'getting' programming is that you cant do programming without some syntax; and yet syntax is irrelevant. I dont believe one can ever get that without some experience of Lisp -- Minsky's Turing award lecture is an elaboration of this: http://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/papers/TuringLecture/TuringLecture.html -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Need opinions on P vs NP
On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 7:19 PM, Paddy wrote: > Having just seen Raymond's talk on Beyond PEP-8 here: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf-BqAjZb8M, it reminded me of my own recent > post where I am soliciting opinions from non-newbies on the relative > Pythonicity of different versions of a routine that has non-simple array > manipulations. > > The blog post: > http://paddy3118.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/pythonic-matrix-manipulation.html > > The first, (and original), code sample: > > def cholesky(A): > L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))] > for i in range(len(A)): > for j in range(i+1): > s = sum(L[i][k] * L[j][k] for k in range(j)) > L[i][j] = sqrt(A[i][i] - s) if (i == j) else \ > (1.0 / L[j][j] * (A[i][j] - s)) > return L > > > The second equivalent code sample: > > def cholesky2(A): > L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))] > for i, (Ai, Li) in enumerate(zip(A, L)): > for j, Lj in enumerate(L[:i+1]): > s = sum(Li[k] * Lj[k] for k in range(j)) > Li[j] = sqrt(Ai[i] - s) if (i == j) else \ > (1.0 / Lj[j] * (Ai[j] - s)) > return L > > > The third: > > def cholesky3(A): > L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))] > for i, (Ai, Li) in enumerate(zip(A, L)): > for j, Lj in enumerate(L[:i]): > #s = fsum(Li[k] * Lj[k] for k in range(j)) > s = fsum(Lik * Ljk for Lik, Ljk in zip(Li, Lj[:j])) > Li[j] = (1.0 / Lj[j] * (Ai[j] - s)) > s = fsum(Lik * Lik for Lik in Li[:i]) > Li[i] = sqrt(Ai[i] - s) > return L > > My blog post gives a little more explanation, but I have yet to receive any > comments on relative Pythonicity. I prefer the first version. You're dealing with mathematical formulas involving matrices here, so subscripting seems appropriate, and enumerating out rows and columns just feels weird to me. That said, I also prefer how the third version pulls the last column of each row out of the inner loop instead of using a verbose conditional expression that you already know will be false for every column except the last one. Do that in the first version, and I think you've got it. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
PEP 492, new coroutine syntax for Python
I don't remember anyone mentioning this here yet, and it is mighty cool: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0492/ -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: PEP 492, new coroutine syntax for Python
On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 1:47 PM, Paul Rubin wrote: > I don't remember anyone mentioning this here yet, and it is mighty cool: > > https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0492/ Hah. It only just hit python-ideas, so you're jumping in on something brand new - no wonder it hasn't been mentioned yet :) And yes, it IS cool. I think the current proposal has a lot of duplication (it looks like there's almost a complete replica of the generator protocol being created in parallel), but whatever happens, it's a good thing. The document's in a state of some flux at the moment. If you're interested, I strongly recommend jumping over to python-ideas and following along - that is, if you're interested enough to drink from the veritable fire-hose of -ideas! There's a chance this will land in Python 3.5, but if not, I'd be very surprised if it doesn't hit 3.6. This is an exciting time to be a Python programmer! ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Need opinions on P vs NP
On Saturday, 18 April 2015 03:34:57 UTC+1, Ian wrote: > On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 7:19 PM, Paddy wrote: > > Having just seen Raymond's talk on Beyond PEP-8 here: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf-BqAjZb8M, it reminded me of my own > > recent post where I am soliciting opinions from non-newbies on the relative > > Pythonicity of different versions of a routine that has non-simple array > > manipulations. > > > > The blog post: > > http://paddy3118.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/pythonic-matrix-manipulation.html > > > > The first, (and original), code sample: > > > > def cholesky(A): > > L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))] > > for i in range(len(A)): > > for j in range(i+1): > > s = sum(L[i][k] * L[j][k] for k in range(j)) > > L[i][j] = sqrt(A[i][i] - s) if (i == j) else \ > > (1.0 / L[j][j] * (A[i][j] - s)) > > return L > > > > > > The second equivalent code sample: > > > > def cholesky2(A): > > L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))] > > for i, (Ai, Li) in enumerate(zip(A, L)): > > for j, Lj in enumerate(L[:i+1]): > > s = sum(Li[k] * Lj[k] for k in range(j)) > > Li[j] = sqrt(Ai[i] - s) if (i == j) else \ > > (1.0 / Lj[j] * (Ai[j] - s)) > > return L > > > > > > The third: > > > > def cholesky3(A): > > L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))] > > for i, (Ai, Li) in enumerate(zip(A, L)): > > for j, Lj in enumerate(L[:i]): > > #s = fsum(Li[k] * Lj[k] for k in range(j)) > > s = fsum(Lik * Ljk for Lik, Ljk in zip(Li, Lj[:j])) > > Li[j] = (1.0 / Lj[j] * (Ai[j] - s)) > > s = fsum(Lik * Lik for Lik in Li[:i]) > > Li[i] = sqrt(Ai[i] - s) > > return L > > > > My blog post gives a little more explanation, but I have yet to receive any > > comments on relative Pythonicity. > > I prefer the first version. You're dealing with mathematical formulas > involving matrices here, so subscripting seems appropriate, and > enumerating out rows and columns just feels weird to me. > > That said, I also prefer how the third version pulls the last column > of each row out of the inner loop instead of using a verbose > conditional expression that you already know will be false for every > column except the last one. Do that in the first version, and I think > you've got it. But shouldn't the maths transcend the slight change in representation? A programmer in the J language might have a conceptually neater representation of the same thing due to its grounding in arrays (maybe) and for a J representation it would become J-thonic. In Python, it is usual to iterate over collections and also to use enumerate where we must have indices. Could it be that there is a also a strong pull in the direction of using indices because that is what is predominantly given in the way matrix maths is likely to be expressed mathematically? A case of "TeX likes indices so we should too"? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
On 04/17/2015 07:22 PM, Ben Finney wrote: BartC writes: (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.) Which people's personal preferences? Are these the same people who have such passionate disagreement about tabs versus spaces? If you only write programs that will only ever be read by you and no-one else, feel free to maintain a fork of Python (or any other language) that suits your personal preferences. Too much effort? Or maybe you sometimes want others, whose preferences may not exactly match yours, to collaborate on programs you write? Then I think you have your answer of why such personal perferences are not switchable in the languages we actually use. I always find discussions like these rather amusing. From a practical standpoint, no matter now passionately someone feels about this sort of thing, it is ultimately totally irrelevant. The language (whatever language or subject it is) is already defined. You either use it as it exists or go on to something else. EOD! (End-of-discussion). The exception, of course, is if you are actively involved in the defining and creating something new. But otherwise, take it or leave it. Naturally you are permitted to have your own opinions, whether passionate or otherwise, but it's not worth arguing about. -=- Larry -=- -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: PEP 492, new coroutine syntax for Python
Chris Angelico writes: > Hah. It only just hit python-ideas, so you're jumping in on something > brand new - no wonder it hasn't been mentioned yet :) Interesting. It's dated a couple weeks ago and has obviously been in the works for a while. There's a working implementation which I'd think means it's outside the idea phase. > I think the current proposal has a lot of duplication (it looks like > there's almost a complete replica of the generator protocol being > created in parallel), but whatever happens, it's a good thing. But it's so much cleaner than the existing generator stuff and can pretty much replace it. That is the kind of change that Python 3 really should have been about. > I strongly recommend jumping over to python-ideas and following along > - that is, if you're interested enough to drink from the veritable > fire-hose of -ideas! I might take a look at the list archive. I don't think I could deal with actually receiving the mailings and trying to keep up with them. > There's a chance this will land in Python 3.5, but if not, I'd be very > surprised if it doesn't hit 3.6. Neat :). This paper about Lua coroutines is good and if it hasn't been part of the PEP discussion and looks relevant, you might want to post it there: http://www.jucs.org/jucs_10_7/coroutines_in_lua/de_Moura_A_L.pdf -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: PEP 492, new coroutine syntax for Python
On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 3:32 PM, Paul Rubin wrote: > Chris Angelico writes: >> Hah. It only just hit python-ideas, so you're jumping in on something >> brand new - no wonder it hasn't been mentioned yet :) > > Interesting. It's dated a couple weeks ago and has obviously been in > the works for a while. There's a working implementation which I'd think > means it's outside the idea phase. I'm not sure, but I suspect it's been developed/discussed in a SIG. Today's the first day I've seen stuff about it. >> I think the current proposal has a lot of duplication (it looks like >> there's almost a complete replica of the generator protocol being >> created in parallel), but whatever happens, it's a good thing. > > But it's so much cleaner than the existing generator stuff and can > pretty much replace it. That is the kind of change that Python 3 really > should have been about. Generators have other uses, but I think the intention is to subsume all the generator-based coroutine system. You'd have to raise this on -ideas, though. >> There's a chance this will land in Python 3.5, but if not, I'd be very >> surprised if it doesn't hit 3.6. > > Neat :). This paper about Lua coroutines is good and if it hasn't been > part of the PEP discussion and looks relevant, you might want to post it > there: > > http://www.jucs.org/jucs_10_7/coroutines_in_lua/de_Moura_A_L.pdf I hate to say TLDR, but it's the truth here. I'm posting from theatre (we're performing The Merry Widow and I'm checking in between follow spot cues... yeah, I'm insane), and don't have time this week to evaluate a paper like that on a subject that I'm not an expert on. Either someone else who subscribes to both python-list and python-ideas will post it, or you'll have to join -ideas yourself, sorry. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
Michael Torrie : > There was a version of Python (compatible at a bytecode level) that did > implement braces for blocks. It was called pythonb, but it is now > defunct, understandably for lack of interest. http://www.perl.com/pub/2001/04/01/parrot.htm> LW: Sure. I'd probably write the program something like this: while(@line = Sys::Stdin->readline()): continue_next if $line[0] =eq= "#": print @line; } Marko -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
