Re: Numeric command-line options vs. negative-number arguments

[Ben Finney]

Steven Bethard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Did you try it and find it didn't work as you expected?

No, I was commenting on the behaviour you described (hence why I said
"That would be irritating").

> Argparse knows what your option flags look like, so if you specify
> one, it knows it's an option.  Argparse will only interpret it as a
> negative number if you specify a negative number that doesn't match
> a known option.

That's also irritating, and violates the expected behaviour. It leads
to *some* undefined options being flagged as errors, and others
interpreted as arguments. The user shouldn't need to know the complete
set of options to know which leading-hyphen arguments will be treated
as options and which ones won't.

The correct behaviour would be to *always* interpret an argument that
has a leading hyphen as an option (unless it follows an explicit '--'
option), and complain if the option is unknown.

-- 
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  `\Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole |
_o__)one and asked Him to forgive me."  -- Emo Philips |
Ben Finney
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Re: marshal bug?

[Gary Herron]

Anurag wrote:
> I have been chasing a problem in my code since hours and it bolis down
> to this
> import marshal
> marshal.dumps(str(123)) != marshal.dumps(str("123"))
>
> Can someone please tell me why?
> when
> str(123) == str("123")
>
> or are they different?
>
> it also means that
> if s = str(123)
> marshal.dumps(s) != marshal.dumps(marshal.loads(marshal.dumps(s)))
>
> rgds
> Anurag
>
>   

Any string in Python can be "interned" or not, the difference being
how/where the value is stored internally.  The marshal module includes
such information in its output.  What you are doing is probably
considered a misuse of the marshal module.  I'd suggest using the pickle
(or cPickle) modules instead.

Here's the relevant part of the manual for marshal:

version:
Indicates the format that the module uses. Version 0 is the
historical format, version 1 (added in Python 2.4) shares interned
strings and version 2 (added in Python 2.5) uses a binary format for
floating point numbers. The current version is 2









Gary Herron.


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Re: marshal bug?

[David]

On 9/28/07, Anurag <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have been chasing a problem in my code since hours and it bolis down
> to this
> import marshal
> marshal.dumps(str(123)) != marshal.dumps(str("123"))
>

I'm not sure why, but marshal does dump the 2 differently. ie:

>>> marshal.dumps(str(123))
's\x03\x00\x00\x00123'

>>> marshal.dumps(str("123"))
't\x03\x00\x00\x00123'

Somehow, marshal detects a difference between these 2 and changes the
first character in it's output. From the documentation:

"Details of the format are undocumented on purpose; it may change
between Python versions (although it rarely does)".

So you could check the C code to find out what the "s" and "t" mean,
but your assumptions on the format for your app could become incorrect
with new Python versions, or with different marshalling backends.
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Re: marshal bug?

[David]

> I'm not sure why, but marshal does dump the 2 differently. ie:
>
> >>> marshal.dumps(str(123))
> 's\x03\x00\x00\x00123'
>
> >>> marshal.dumps(str("123"))
> 't\x03\x00\x00\x00123'
>

I've just checked the source [1].

's' refers to a regular string, 't' refers to an interned[2] string.

In other words the difference between the 2 marshal dumps is an
internal python implementation detail. You probably shouldn't be
comparing marshal dumps in your app in the first place.

[1] http://coverage.livinglogic.de/Python/marshal.c.html. (Actually, I
checked the downloaded bz2, but this is the only URL for marshal.c I
could find)
[2] http://mindprod.com/jgloss/interned.html
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Re: marshal bug?

[Anurag]

Thanks for the reply.

It seems problem is due to
"""
Any string in Python can be "interned" or not, the difference being
how/where the value is stored internally.  The marshal module includes
such information in its output.  What you are doing is probably
considered a misuse of the marshal module.  I'd suggest using the
pickle
(or cPickle) modules instead.
"""
as mentioned by Gary Herron

Now is there a easy way to by pass it (hack around it)
I tried various options but all fail e.g.
i= 123; marshal.dumps("%d"%123) != marshal.dumps("%d"%i)

So maybe I have to change all my code to use pickle, which also
consumes for memory per string.


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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Diez B. Roggisch]

TheFlyingDutchman schrieb:
>>   - Abstract Base Classes
>> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3119/>
>>
> 
> I like how someone here characterized decorators - those silly @
> things. They remind me of Perl. Not adding keywords for abstract and
> static is like Perl not adding a keyword for class. But I know all
> such additions are vigorously defended by the most ardent users of
> each language.

The fact that you compare and criticise the simple annotations like 
static or abstract with the much more powerful decorator concept shows 
that, despite being the maintainer of a 
soon-to-be-ruling-the-python-world Python 3 fork, lack understanding of 
even the most basic language features. Which isn't exactly news.[1]

The decorator syntax was vigorously discussed. I personally don't mind 
the @-based syntax, but could live with anything else - because I like 
and often need the feature for it's capabilities.

Maybe you should start using python more and _then_ start discussions 
about it's features, when you have good grounds and can provide viable 
alternatives? But I guess that's a wish that won't be granted

Diez


[1] 
http://groups.google.de/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/a9a52694148fc52c/28c9ee2e1c64cdde#28c9ee2e1c64cdde
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Ian Dickinson]

Never would look like a good time scale to me given that a lot of the stuff I 
use is being ripped out




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Re: ValueError: too many values to unpack,>>>

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

J. Clifford Dyer a écrit :
> On Thu, Sep 27, 2007 at 09:50:26PM +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote
> regarding Re: ValueError: too many values to unpack,>>>:
>> Shawn Minisall a ?crit :
(snip)
>>> I did and it printed everything up until the 3rd line with 3
>>> numbers for deposits.  I have since figured it out...the teacher
>>> put in an extra tab after the last value so python thought it was
>>> 4 values for three.  I went back into the file and deleted the
>>> extra tab after the 3rd number and saved it...now it's working
>>> fine. I'm going to kill her...

>> You'd better learn how to deal with "this-cant-happen-here"
>> situation, because it's how it is in real-life.
>> 
> 
> And preferably learn how to deal with it in your code, not in the
> data that's given to you.

Thanks for clarifying this point, which is of course what I meant.

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Re: Numeric command-line options vs. negative-number arguments

[Steven Bethard]

Ben Finney wrote:
> Steven Bethard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Argparse knows what your option flags look like, so if you specify
>> one, it knows it's an option.  Argparse will only interpret it as a
>> negative number if you specify a negative number that doesn't match
>> a known option.
> 
> That's also irritating, and violates the expected behaviour. It leads
> to *some* undefined options being flagged as errors, and others
> interpreted as arguments. The user shouldn't need to know the complete
> set of options to know which leading-hyphen arguments will be treated
> as options and which ones won't.
> 
> The correct behaviour would be to *always* interpret an argument that
> has a leading hyphen as an option (unless it follows an explicit '--'
> option), and complain if the option is unknown.

It was decided that practicality beats purity here. Arguments with 
leading hyphens which look numeric but aren't in the parser are 
interpreted as negative numbers. Arguments with leading hyphens which 
don't look numeric and aren't in the parser raise errors. Sure, it's not 
the pure answer, but it's the practical answer: "-123" is much more 
likely to be a negative number than an option.

STeVe
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Re: A question on python performance.

[Magnus Lycka]

Joe Goldthwaite wrote:
> I didn't know about the getattr function. I tried to search for that
> type of function but not knowing how to word the search request,
> I couldn't find it. 

You should really read through chapter 2 (Built-in Objects) of the
library reference. All that stuff is core Python functionality that
you should be aware of. Reading chapter 3 (Built-in Types) is also
a really good idea. A lot of the rest is good too, but there is
really no excuse for not knowing the contents of those chapters. ;)
It's just a few pages, and very useful to know. Read them now!
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Re: recipient validation with smtplib

[Steve Holden]

Robin Becker wrote:
> Tim Williams wrote:
>> On 28/09/2007, Robin Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Is there a way to use smtplib to get recipient validation. I can use smtplib
>>> quite happily to send emails using the locahost's sendmail, but sendmail is 
>>> just
>>>  fire and forget, so some bad addresses eg [EMAIL PROTECTED] don't cause any
>>> error in the sending application. I know some smtp setups do enforce 
>>> recipient
>>> validation, but it doesn't seem terribly easy to do this with sendmail. I
>>> wondered if there were some way to do this in python?
>> There is no way of  validating *every* email address you send to using
>> SMTP alone.   Some servers accept every address and bounce later - as
>> you have found out. So for the purpose of the SMTP client, or relaying
>> server,  the address is valid at sending time to those servers.
>>
>> Checking DNS for MX records is a possibility for removing some bad
>> addresses, but it's not fool proof as the RFCs don't require MX
>> records to exist for a domain to be able to receive email.  If no MX
>> records are present, one (and only one!) IP address returned from the
>> domain's A record(s) should be tried.
>>
>> HTH :)
> Thanks, it's at least ammunition for me to say it cannot easily be done. I 
> found 
> this milter
> 
> http://www.jmaimon.com/sendmail/callahead-milter/
> 
> but I think this will cause every send to be checked which is probably not 
> what 
> we need.

I have a client who gets many spurious web sign-ups (they are a 
telephone service). One of the signs of fraud is a bogus email address, 
  so it became very important to detect these.

The only way we could satisfactorily do so was to process the mailbox 
that received the bounces and detect a GUID in the bounce message to 
identify the potentially bogus accounts. This apparently works well 
enough to stop most scammers from making their first 'phone call. In 
general there is no way to tell when sending that an address is or is 
not valid.

regards
  Steve
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Holden Web LLC/Ltd   http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb  http://del.icio.us/steve.holden

Sorry, the dog ate my .sigline

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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Alex Martelli]

John Nagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> TheFlyingDutchman wrote:
> > It seems that Python 3 is more significant for what it removes than
> > what it adds.
> > 
> > What are the additions that people find the most compelling?
> 
> I'd rather see Python 2.5 finished, so it just works.

And I'd rather see peace on Earth and goodwill among men than _either_
Python 3 or your cherished "finished" 2.5 -- the comparison and implied
tradeoff make about as much sense as yours.

> All the major third-party libraries working and available with
> working builds for all major platforms.  That working set
> of components in all the major distros used on servers.
> The major hosting companies having that up and running on
> their servers.  Windows installers that install a collection
> of components that all play well together.
> 
> That's what I mean by "working".

I.e., you mean tasks appropriate for maintainers of all the major
third-party libraries, distros, and hosting companies -- great, go
convince them, or go convince all warmongers on Earth to make peace if
you want an even harder tasks with even better potential impact on the
state of the world, then.


Alex
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[John Nagle]

Alex Martelli wrote:
> John Nagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> TheFlyingDutchman wrote:
>>> It seems that Python 3 is more significant for what it removes than
>>> what it adds.
>>>
>>> What are the additions that people find the most compelling?
>> I'd rather see Python 2.5 finished, so it just works.
> 
> And I'd rather see peace on Earth and goodwill among men than _either_
> Python 3 or your cherished "finished" 2.5 -- the comparison and implied
> tradeoff make about as much sense as yours.

 Insofar as Python has an organization, it's not adequately managing
extension modules.  Each extension module has its own infrastructure,
with its own build procedures, its own bug list, and its own maintainers.
There's not even an archive.  Unlike CPAN, Cheese Shop is just a directory of
URLs.

 Take a look at how Perl does it.  Here are the instructions on
how to contribute to CPAN:

http://www.cpan.org/modules/04pause.html

There's a way to get your module into the system, a standardized format,
build, and installation procedure, and an archive which is mirrored.
There's a common bug reporting system.  Modules abandoned by their
original developers are not lost, and can be "adopted" by someone else.

 Python doesn't have any of this.  And that's far more of a problem
than Python 3.x.

John Nagle
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Paul Rubin]

"Diez B. Roggisch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> All serious languages are turing-complete. So can we put away with this
> non-sense argument right away, please?

Actually the so called "total" languages aren't Turing-complete.  I
think Coq is an example: every Coq function must return a value.  So
Coq doesn't have any way to write an infinite loop, because that would
allow writing functions that fail to return.  So there is no halting
program in Coq (every Coq program halts), which means Coq is not
Turing-complete.  That allows Coq to generate code about which it can
make all kinds of guarantees that most languages can't (not simply
that the programs halt but that they actually fulfill their
computational specifications), so it's being used in various
high-assurance applications, though usually to write just the most
critical parts of a program, not the entire program.  Of course it's a
matter of semantics but in some meaningful ways, I'd say Coq is a more
serious language than Python.

Here is a famous early paper explaining why Turing-completeness isn't
all it's cracked up to be:

  http://sblp2004.ic.uff.br/papers/turner.pdf
 
This paper shows some of the advantages of the total approach.
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[TheFlyingDutchman]

On Sep 28, 2:49 am, "Diez B. Roggisch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> TheFlyingDutchman wrote:
>
> >> The fact that you compare and criticise the simple annotations like
> >> static or abstract with the much more powerful decorator concept shows
> >> that, despite being the maintainer of a
> >> soon-to-be-ruling-the-python-world Python 3 fork, lack understanding of
> >> even the most basic language features. Which isn't exactly news.[1]
>
> > Don't you mean "lack appreciation for the non-basic language
> > features"? static, class and abstract
> > are basic language features that I appreciate. "decorators" have been
> > in Python for only a small part of its existence, they aren't in the
> > vast majority of languages (if any other language even has them) which
> > means people write all kinds of software without them. Or rather, most
> > of the software ever written didn't use decorators. Doesn't sound
> > basic at all.
>
> People did write all kinds of software in Assembler. And large portions of
> these people complained about every feature that some new language
> introduced.
>
> All serious languages are turing-complete. So can we put away with this
> non-sense argument right away, please?

You said it was a most basic language feature. I still haven't heard
anything that leads me to believe that statement is correct. What
languages implemented decorators as a most basic language feature?
Python didn't have them for over a decade so it doesn't qualify.

>
> >> Maybe you should start using python more and _then_ start discussions
> >> about it's features, when you have good grounds and can provide viable
> >> alternatives? But I guess that's a wish that won't be granted
>
> > static and abstract keywords would seem to be very viable
> > alternatives. Viable enough that several language designers used them.
>
> As I said - you don't get it. The decorators (in conjunction with the
> descriptor protocol - ever heard of that?) are very powerful yet lead as an
> artifact to simple, declarative implementations of features you like,
> namely static and abstract methods.

You said I had to provide a viable alternative. I did that. I haven't
heard of the descriptor protocol.

One of the problems with "getting" decorators is that they are not in
older books at all and newer books like Beginning Python from Novice
to Professional (c) 2005 Magnus Lie Hetland, that I own, devote almost
nothing to them. Out of 640 pages they are only mentioned
in one paragraph that is in a section titled "Static Methods and Class
Methods",(and followed by a class example with @staticmethod and
@classmethod).

So it seems like Magnus Lie Hetland didn't think they were very
important and he had Professional in his book title.

>
> And as you seem being so reluctant to let new features creep into the
> language, the introduction of new keywords you like?

I'm not against additions on principle.

>
> Besides, those 'several language designers' seem to think that the
> introduction of keywords isn't enough, but a general purpose annotation
> scheme seems to be viable - or how do you explain e.g. JDK 1.5 Annotations?

I certainly wouldn't call them a basic language feature. Java 1.0 came
out in January 1996, Java 1.5 in September 2004. It doesn't appear
that the language designer of Java, James Gosling, is still at the
wheel or BDFL. But yes, Java is showing signs of "complexity creep".
You'll be happy to know that I really dislike the C++ template syntax
and Java has decided to add something similar.

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Delete spaces

[koutoo]

If I have a text file that is delimited by spaces, how do I import it
and get to comma delimited?  Here is a row of data from the text file:

1110:55:14  265   8.5
1.4+1.1   2.5   Class-2   0

I tried a few examples from the group and it didn't work, since the
file also has a header row and a row of seperators ( ---).  The
lengths of each row is something like 130, so there are extra spaces
after the last value as well.  I have tried joining and other things,
but I couldn't figure out how to get the values to come together.
Thanks.

Kou

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Re: [Zope] how do I test for the current item in an iteration

[Andrew Milton]

+---[ kamal hamzat ]--
| Dear All,
| 
| I have this error after i added the if statement

Time for you to do some reading of your own.

That's three in less than an hour...

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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is there a posh Win32 binary? or, compiling with MS 2005 Express...

[Ray Schumacher]

Is there a posh Win32 binary?
Or better, has anyone successfully compiled modules for Python 2.4 
with the newest "free" tools? Do I need to move to 2.5?

I could not get it to compile with my (apparently incomplete) MS C++ 
7.1 install (which did, however, work for weave/blitz, before).
The 7.1 compiler with the 1.1SDK is no longer available, so I can't 
repair the install.
I went through the motions of compiling yesterday with the new MS 
Express Toolkit on another machine and failed. Distutils keeps saying 
that the SDK for 7.1 is not installed.

Ray

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Re: Importing Module To Use Variables In A Second Module

[Calvin Spealman]

Most problems like this are caused by trying to access the attributes
of the module before that module is fully executed, and thus before
they are defined.

For example, if you have A.py:
  import B
  data = "TEST"

And B.py:
  import A
  print A.data

Now, if you run A,py, it will import B before it defines its global
variable 'data', so that when the B module tries to import A and then
print A.data, it has not been defined yet. Look into the possibility
that such an import loop is occurring in your code. You can import in
loops, but not if you access things defined globally in one from a
global scope in another.

On 27 Sep 2007 21:30:10 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   I'm stymied by what should be a simple Python task: accessing the value of
> a variable assigned in one module from within a second module. I wonder if
> someone here can help clarify my thinking. I've re-read Chapter 16 (Module
> Basics) in Lutz and Ascher's "Learning Python" but it's not working for me.
>
>   In one module (the "source"), variablePage.py, three wxPython widgets
> display values that are assigned to variables: curVar, UoDlow, and UoDhigh.
> I want to display then in equivalent widgets on a wxPython notebook tab in a
> different module, the "importer."
>
>   At the top of the importer module I have:
>
> from variablePage import curVar, UoDlow, UoDhigh
>
> and I try to display the values of those variables in widgets on this page.
> But, python complains:
>
> from variablePage import curVar, UoDlow, UoDhigh
> ImportError: cannot import name curVar
>
>   I've also tried
>
> import variablePage as VP
>
>   and referenced the variables as VP.curVar, VP.UoDlow, and VP.UoDhigh, but
> python still doesn't like this:
>
>   File "/data1/eikos/fuzSetPage.py", line 364, in loadParVar
> first = VP.curVar
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'curVar'
>
>   Both of these forms are used in the book (pages 260-261) in simple
> examples. I also get errors if I try importing using the class name before
> the variable name.
>
>   A clue stick would be very helpful since I am not seeing just what I'm
> doing incorrectly.
>
> Rich
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>


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OCBC connection

[Sugrue, Sean]

I'm trying to make an odbc connection to postgresql which is on a server
using python.
Does anyone have a code snippet to make a basic connection with a select
query?

Sean
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Re: recipient validation with smtplib

[Tim Williams]

On 28/09/2007, Robin Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tim Williams wrote:
> > On 28/09/2007, Robin Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Is there a way to use smtplib to get recipient validation. I can use 
> >> smtplib
> >> quite happily to send emails using the locahost's sendmail, but sendmail 
> >> is just
> >>  fire and forget, so some bad addresses eg [EMAIL PROTECTED] don't cause 
> >> any
> >> error in the sending application. I know some smtp setups do enforce 
> >> recipient
> >> validation, but it doesn't seem terribly easy to do this with sendmail. I
> >> wondered if there were some way to do this in python?
> >
> > There is no way of  validating *every* email address you send to using
> > SMTP alone.   Some servers accept every address and bounce later - as
> > you have found out. So for the purpose of the SMTP client, or relaying
> > server,  the address is valid at sending time to those servers.
> >
> > Checking DNS for MX records is a possibility for removing some bad
> > addresses, but it's not fool proof as the RFCs don't require MX
> > records to exist for a domain to be able to receive email.  If no MX
> > records are present, one (and only one!) IP address returned from the
> > domain's A record(s) should be tried.
> >
> > HTH :)
> Thanks, it's at least ammunition for me to say it cannot easily be done. I 
> found
> this milter
>
> http://www.jmaimon.com/sendmail/callahead-milter/
>
> but I think this will cause every send to be checked which is probably not 
> what
> we need.


Hmm,  call-ahead functions just initiate the first part of the SMTP
dialogue - to the RCPT TO,   unless you cache the results so that the
call-ahead only checks each address once a day or so there is no
benefit.  Without caching it will just slow down sending process as
you will get 1.5 SMTP conversations per outgoing message instead of
just 1.However,  they still won't catch invalid email addresses
when the server accepts all addresses* and bounces later.

* all addresses = all addresses on domains local to that server.

I have written functions like this in the past for outbound/inbound
(recipient/sender) address checking,  using combinations of SMTP
dialogue, DNS and port checking, bounce-collection, SPF and other
techniques over the years.   There is no guaranteed way of checking
that all email addresses in your list are either VALID or INVALID.
Valid email addresses can get refused/bounce for a variety of reasons,
and invalid addresses sometimes get accepted/don't bounce at all.

You should work on either a best-effort basis,  running some checks
but accepting that its not foolproof  -OR- use no checks at all
knowing that most invalid email addresses will be handled correctly by
the SMTP processes

HTH :)
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Re: Traveling Europe

[willshak]

on 9/27/2007 10:43 PM Eric Sosman said the following:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> World's most popular traveling destinations
>>
>> http://...
>
> "Nobody goes there any more; it's too crowded." -- LPB
>
Besides, "It gets late there early" -- LPB

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In Hamptonburgh, NY
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Re: Bug: spurious indentation error

[Steve Holden]

Mridula Ramesh wrote:
> hi.
> 
> is this the right place to report a bug?
> 
> i had written this by mistake:
>filemenu = Menu(menu) , bg="White")
> 
> instead of
>   filemenu = Menu(menu, bg="Pink")
> 
> and the compiler kept giving me an indentation error in a line much 
> further down which was perfectly okay.
> 
> i am using python 2.5.1 with IDLE 1.2.1 on a windows XP machine.
> anyone else struggling with the same thing, beware! :)
> 
> -mridula.
> 
This is probably a bug in your mind, not in the compiler ;-)

Without more detail (i.e. the complete code or a sizable and relevant 
chunk of it, pkus the copied error message) it's impossible to say 
exactly what was happening. However I am pretty confident that the 
2.5.21 compiler will immediately report an unopened closing parenthesis 
as a syntax error.

 >>> something = "abc".replace("c"), "d")
   File "", line 1
 something = "abc".replace("c"), "d")
^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
 >>>

So, what was the problem again? Give us a little more detail,  please.

regards
  Steve
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Skype: holdenweb  http://del.icio.us/steve.holden

Sorry, the dog ate my .sigline

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Bug: spurious indentation error

[Mridula Ramesh]

hi.

is this the right place to report a bug?

i had written this by mistake:
   filemenu = Menu(menu) , bg="White")

instead of
  filemenu = Menu(menu, bg="Pink")

and the compiler kept giving me an indentation error in a line much further
down which was perfectly okay.

i am using python 2.5.1 with IDLE 1.2.1 on a windows XP machine.
anyone else struggling with the same thing, beware! :)

-mridula.
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recipient validation with smtplib

[Robin Becker]

Is there a way to use smtplib to get recipient validation. I can use smtplib 
quite happily to send emails using the locahost's sendmail, but sendmail is 
just 
  fire and forget, so some bad addresses eg [EMAIL PROTECTED] don't cause any 
error in the sending application. I know some smtp setups do enforce recipient 
validation, but it doesn't seem terribly easy to do this with sendmail. I 
wondered if there were some way to do this in python?
-- 
Robin Becker

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Re: getopt with negative numbers?

[Neal Becker]

Ben Finney wrote:

> Casey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
>> Well, it is a hack and certainly not as clean as having getopt or
>> optparse handle this natively (which I believe they should).
> 
> I believe they shouldn't because the established interface is that a
> hyphen always introduced an option unless (for those programs that
> support it) a '--' option is used, as discussed.

I don't agree.  First of all, what is 'established interface'?  There are
precedents from well-known C and C++ libraries, such as 'getopt', 'popt',
and boost::program_options.  IIRC, each of these will treat a negative
number following an option that requires a number as a number.

Besides this, the behavior I just described is really required.  Otherwise,
numeric options are basically broken.


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Re: Emailing the attachment created with the Quick Screenshots Script(Python + PIL)

[Mark Bratcher]

The quick screenshots script works great for the project I'm working on and
I'm trying to modify it to include emailing the JPG file it generates.  I
retrieved both scripts from the Python Archives.  The modified script is
pasted below and the errors below that.  My goal is to have the latest date
stamped file emailed to me.

 

If someone can see where I've gone wrong, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

"""

Simple script to capture your screen, save it named with today's date and
then

open it to allow editing and markup (circle problems, etc)

 

Created by Greg Pinero ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Spring 2005

 

To run this you'll need:

>Python Imaging Library (PIL) -http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/

>Python 2.3 or later - http://www.python.org

>Windows?

"""

import os

import sys

import time

import Image

import ImageGrab

#-

#User Settings:

SaveDirectory=r'C:\Downloads\Python\Attachments'

ImageEditorPath=r'C:\WINDOWS\system32\mspaint.exe'

#Here is another example:

#ImageEditorPath=r'C:\Program Files\IrfanView\i_view32.exe'

#-

 

img=ImageGrab.grab()

saveas=os.path.join(SaveDirectory,'ScreenShot_'+time.strftime('%Y_%m_%d%_%H_
%M_%S')+'.jpg')

img.save(saveas)

editorstring='"start"%s" "%s"'% (ImageEditorPath,saveas) #Just for Windows
right now?

#Notice the first leading " above? This is the bug in python that no one
will admit...

os.system(editorstring)

 

# Import smtplib for the actual sending function

import smtplib

 

# Here are the email package modules we'll need

from email.mime.image import MIMEImage

from email.mime.multipart import MIMEMultipart

 

COMMASPACE = ', '

 

# Create the container (outer) email message.

msg = MIMEMultipart()

msg['Subject'] = 'TEST'

# me == the sender's email address

# family = the list of all recipients' email addresses

msg['From'] = ("Mark Bratcher")

msg['To'] = COMMASPACE.join("Mark Bratcher")

msg.preamble = 'TEST'

 

# Assume we know that the image files are all in JPG format

for file in "c:\downloads\python\Attachments\*.jpg":

# Open the files in binary mode.  Let the MIMEImage class automatically

# guess the specific image type.

fp = open(file, 'rb')

img = MIMEImage(fp.read())

fp.close()

msg.attach(img)

 

# Send the email via our own SMTP server.

s = smtplib.SMTP()

s.connect()

s.sendmail(me, family, msg.as_string())

s.close()

 

The errors I'm receiving in the Python Shell are:

 

>>> 

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "C:\Downloads\Python\screenshooter.pyw", line 54, in 

fp = open('C:\Downloads\Python\Attachments\*.jpg', 'rb')

IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'C:\\Downloads\\Python\\Attachments\\*.jpg'

>>> 

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "C:\Downloads\Python\screenshooter.pyw", line 54, in 

fp = open('\Downloads\Python\Attachments\*.jpg', 'rb')

IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'\\Downloads\\Python\\Attachments\\*.jpg'

>>> 

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "C:\Downloads\Python\screenshooter.pyw", line 54, in 

fp = open('*.jpg', 'rb')

IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '*.jpg'

>>> 

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "C:\Downloads\Python\screenshooter.pyw", line 51, in 

for file in jpgfiles:

NameError: name 'jpgfiles' is not defined

>>> 

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "C:\Downloads\Python\screenshooter.pyw", line 54, in 

fp = open(file, 'rb')

IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'c'

>>> 

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "C:\Downloads\Python\screenshooter.pyw", line 54, in 

fp = open(file, 'rb')

IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'c'

>>> 

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "C:\Downloads\Python\screenshooter.pyw", line 54, in 

fp = open(file, 'rb')

IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'c'

 

 

Mark Bratcher

Consolidated Citrus, LP

4210-250 Metro, Parkway

Fort Myers, FL  33916

239-275-4060 ext 219

 

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FW: OCBC connection

[Sugrue, Sean]

Is this the right email list to be on for asking rather elementary
python questions?
If not do you have a suggestion

Sean 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Sugrue, Sean
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 10:58 AM
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: OCBC connection

I'm trying to make an odbc connection to postgresql which is on a server
using python.
Does anyone have a code snippet to make a basic connection with a select
query?

Sean
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Re: OCBC connection

[kyosohma]

On Sep 28, 9:57 am, "Sugrue, Sean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm trying to make an odbc connection to postgresql which is on a server
> using python.
> Does anyone have a code snippet to make a basic connection with a select
> query?
>
> Sean

Sean,

This appears to be what you're looking for:

http://www.devx.com/opensource/Article/29071

See also Python Database spec and module page:

http://www.python.org/topics/database/

Mike

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Re: getopt with negative numbers?

[Casey]

On Sep 27, 10:47 pm, Ben Finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I believe they shouldn't because the established interface is that a
> hyphen always introduced an option unless (for those programs that
> support it) a '--' option is used, as discussed.
Not "THE" established interface; "AN" established interface.  There
are other established interfaces that have different behaviors. I'm a
pragmatist; I write software for users, not techies.  I suspect most
users would expect a command like "abc -a -921 351 175" to treat the
"-921" as a negative integer and not abort the program with some
obscure error about option 921 not being known.
>
> > But I think it is a simple and clever hack and still allows getopt
> > or optparse to function normally.
>
> Except that they *don't* function normally under that hack; they
> function in a way contradictory to the normal way.
Again, it depends on who is defining "normal" and what they are basing
it on. I suspect many (probably most) users who are familiar with
command line input are unaware of the "--" switch which was mainly
designed to support arbitrary arguments that might have an initial
hyphen, a much broader problem than supporting negative values.  I'm
not asking that the default behavior of getopt or optparse change;
only that they provide an option to support this behavior for those of
us who find it useful. Software libraries should be tools that support
the needs of the developer, not rigid enforcers of arbitrary rules.

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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch]

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:42:49 -0700, TheFlyingDutchman wrote:

> Which of the common languages have higher order functions and what is
> the syntax?

C, C++, Pascal, Perl, PHP, Ruby have them.  And of course the functional
languages, most notably Lisp and Scheme as you asked for common languages.

Don't know if C#'s delegates qualify.

Ciao,
Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch
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Re: Emailing the attachment created with the Quick Screenshots Script(Python + PIL)

[Simon Brunning]

On 9/28/07, Mark Bratcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I tried the suggestion at the other end of this link without any luck.  Does
> anyone have a working script which will send the screenshot file created by
> the Quick Screenshots Script (Python + PIL)?  I receive errors like access
> denied errors and not defined errors.

Could you show us the code you are running, and the exact error
messages that you get? This might be worth a look:

.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[TheFlyingDutchman]

On Sep 28, 10:01 am, Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:42:49 -0700, TheFlyingDutchman wrote:
> > Which of the common languages have higher order functions and what is
> > the syntax?
>
> C, C++, Pascal, Perl, PHP, Ruby have them.  And of course the functional
> languages, most notably Lisp and Scheme as you asked for common languages.
>
> Don't know if C#'s delegates qualify.
>
> Ciao,
> Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch

What is the syntax of a higher order function in C, C++ and Pascal?

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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Diez B. Roggisch]

> You said it was a most basic language feature. I still haven't heard
> anything that leads me to believe that statement is correct. What
> languages implemented decorators as a most basic language feature?

I was talking about Python, the programming language that is discussed in
this NG. 

> Python didn't have them for over a decade so it doesn't qualify.

Says who? For further comments, see below.
 
>>
>> >> Maybe you should start using python more and _then_ start discussions
>> >> about it's features, when you have good grounds and can provide viable
>> >> alternatives? But I guess that's a wish that won't be granted
>>
>> > static and abstract keywords would seem to be very viable
>> > alternatives. Viable enough that several language designers used them.
>>
>> As I said - you don't get it. The decorators (in conjunction with the
>> descriptor protocol - ever heard of that?) are very powerful yet lead as
>> an artifact to simple, declarative implementations of features you like,
>> namely static and abstract methods.
> 
> You said I had to provide a viable alternative. I did that. I haven't
> heard of the descriptor protocol.

Where did you do provide that alternative?

> One of the problems with "getting" decorators is that they are not in
> older books at all and newer books like Beginning Python from Novice
> to Professional (c) 2005 Magnus Lie Hetland, that I own, devote almost
> nothing to them. Out of 640 pages they are only mentioned
> in one paragraph that is in a section titled "Static Methods and Class
> Methods",(and followed by a class example with @staticmethod and
> @classmethod).
> 
> So it seems like Magnus Lie Hetland didn't think they were very
> important and he had Professional in his book title.


I consider "core features of a language" the features that are part of the
specification and implementation. Neither do I care if there is anecdotal
evidence of prior usage in other languages, nor who or who not thinks they
are important enough to be dealt with in a book. 

And above all, I don't consider the time things have been around _without_
any feature as proof of their irrelevance - or do you consider cars being
not core to western culture because they only have been around about 100
years, whereas horses have been there for thousands of years? Happy riding,
cowboy!

Python 2.4 has been released in 2003, btw - so decorators are around for 4
years now.

So unless you come up with a definition of "core feature of a language" that
someone respectable in the CS-community wrote that features "time being
around" or "random book authors consider worthy" or "persons lacking the
motivation to really dig into do finally get it", I consider your
definition worthless. Agreed?


>>
>> And as you seem being so reluctant to let new features creep into the
>> language, the introduction of new keywords you like?
> 
> I'm not against additions on principle.
> 
>>
>> Besides, those 'several language designers' seem to think that the
>> introduction of keywords isn't enough, but a general purpose annotation
>> scheme seems to be viable - or how do you explain e.g. JDK 1.5
>> Annotations?
> 
> I certainly wouldn't call them a basic language feature. Java 1.0 came
> out in January 1996, Java 1.5 in September 2004. It doesn't appear
> that the language designer of Java, James Gosling, is still at the
> wheel or BDFL. But yes, Java is showing signs of "complexity creep".
> You'll be happy to know that I really dislike the C++ template syntax
> and Java has decided to add something similar.

Again, your anecdotal language feature definition is nonsense.

By the way, considering generics and C++-templates as "something similar"
shows the inclined beholder that there are other languages out there you
don't really understand.

Diez
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Re: Emailing the attachment created with the Quick Screenshots Script(Python + PIL)

[Mark Bratcher]

I tried the suggestion at the other end of this link without any luck.  Does
anyone have a working script which will send the screenshot file created by
the Quick Screenshots Script (Python + PIL)?  I receive errors like access
denied errors and not defined errors.

 

See the second example from the email package; it creates a MIME message  

with an attachment and sends it using SMTP.


 

 

Mark Bratcher

Consolidated Citrus, LP

4210-250 Metro, Parkway

Fort Myers, FL  33916

239-275-4060 ext 219

 

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Re: [Zope] how do I test for the current item in an iteration

[Andreas Jung]

--On 28. September 2007 16:36:43 +0100 kamal hamzat 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Dear All,

I have this error after i added the if statement

Error Type: TypeError
Error Value: mybrains.__cmp__(x,y) requires y to be a 'mybrains', not a
'int'


for i in context.zCatNewsCurrent():
 if i <= 5:
print "%s: %s: %s" % (i.id, i.author, i.summary)

return printed


Look at Python's enumerate() method.

-aj

pgp4LZBeowRiB.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: FW: OCBC connection

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 2007-09-28 19:22, Sugrue, Sean wrote:
> Is this the right email list to be on for asking rather elementary
> python questions?
> If not do you have a suggestion

It's the right place, indeed :-)

Here's an example using mxODBC:

# mxODBC is available from http://www.egenix.com/products/python/mxODBC/:

# On Windows:
from mx.ODBC import Windows as Database

# On Mac OS X:
from mx.ODBC import iODBC as Database

# On Linux/BSD/etc.:
from mx.ODBC import unixODBC as Database
# or
from mx.ODBC import iODBC as Database

# Open a connection to the database
connection = Database.DriverConnect('DSN=;'
'UID=;'
'PWD=;'
'KEYWORD=')
# replace the values accordingly, add new keyword-value pairs as
# necessary for your data source; data sources are configured
# in the ODBC manager

# Create a cursor; this is used to execute commands
cursor = connection.cursor()

# Create a table
cursor.execute('CREATE TABLE mxodbcexample1 '
   ' (id integer, name varchar(10), data varchar(254))')
# this command does not create a result set, so there's nothing
# to fetch from the database; however in order to make the
# change permanent, we need to commit the change
connection.commit()

# Prepare some data rows to add to the table, ie. a list of tuples
rows = []
for i in range(42):
name = 'name-%i' % i
data = 'value-%i' % i
rows.append((i, name, data))

# Add the data in one go; the values from the tuples get assigned
# to the ?-mark parameter markers in the SQL statement based on
# their position and the SQL statement is executed once for
# each tuple in the list of rows
cursor.executemany('INSERT INTO mxodbcexample1 VALUES (?,?,?)',
   rows)

# If you apply changes to the database, be sure to commit or
# rollback your changes; a call to .commit() or .rollback()
# will implicitly start a new transaction
connection.commit()

# Now fetch some data rows
from_id = 40
to_id = 42
cursor.execute('SELECT * FROM mxodbcexample1'
   ' WHERE (id >= ?) and (id < ?)',
   (from_id, to_id))

# Fetch the results
for i, row in enumerate(cursor.fetchall()):
print 'Row %i: %r' % (i, row)

# Remove the table again
cursor.execute('DROP TABLE mxodbcexample1')
connection.commit()

# Close the connection
connection.close()

Regards,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Sep 28 2007)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/


 Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,MacOSX for free ! 


   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
   Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611


> Sean 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of Sugrue, Sean
> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 10:58 AM
> To: python-list@python.org
> Subject: OCBC connection
> 
> I'm trying to make an odbc connection to postgresql which is on a server
> using python.
> Does anyone have a code snippet to make a basic connection with a select
> query?
> 
> Sean
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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Re: Can I overload the compare (cmp()) function for a Lists ([]) index function?

[xkenneth]

On Sep 28, 12:30 pm, xkenneth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Looking to do something similair. I'm working with alot of timestamps
> and if they're within a couple seconds I need them to be indexed and
> removed from a list.
> Is there any possible way to index with a custom cmp() function?
>
> I assume it would be something like...
>
> list.index(something,mycmp)
>
> Thanks!

or can i just say

list.index.__cmp__ = mycmp

and do it that way? I just want to make sure I'm not doing anything
evil.

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Re: Delete spaces

[Gary Herron]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> If I have a text file that is delimited by spaces, how do I import it
> and get to comma delimited?  Here is a row of data from the text file:
>
> 1110:55:14  265   8.5
> 1.4+1.1   2.5   Class-2   0
>
> I tried a few examples from the group and it didn't work, since the
> file also has a header row and a row of seperators ( ---).  The
> lengths of each row is something like 130, so there are extra spaces
> after the last value as well.  I have tried joining and other things,
> but I couldn't figure out how to get the values to come together.
> Thanks.
>
> Kou
>
>   

After you recognize and handle the header and separator lines, the
remaining lines can be handled this way:

>>> l = '1110:55:14  265   8.5'
>>> f = l.split()
>>> print f
['1', '1', '10:55:14', '2', '65', '8.5']

>>> ','.join(f)
'1,1,10:55:14,2,65,8.5'

or

>>> ', '.join(f)
'1, 1, 10:55:14, 2, 65, 8.5'
>>>

Gary Herron


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Re: getopt with negative numbers?

[Steven Bethard]

Casey wrote:
> Ben Finney wrote:
>> I believe they shouldn't because the established interface is that a
>> hyphen always introduced an option unless (for those programs that
>> support it) a '--' option is used, as discussed.
>
> Not "THE" established interface; "AN" established interface.  There
> are other established interfaces that have different behaviors. I'm a
> pragmatist; I write software for users, not techies.  I suspect most
> users would expect a command like "abc -a -921 351 175" to treat the
> "-921" as a negative integer and not abort the program with some
> obscure error about option 921 not being known.

Glad I'm not alone in this. ;-) A user shouldn't have to go out of their 
way to specify regular numbers on the command line, regardless of 
whether they're positive or negative.

STeVe

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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[egbert]

On Thu, Sep 27, 2007 at 09:17:30PM -0400, Steve Holden wrote:
> So what we need is a poll on what the questions should be. I *love* c.l.py.
I will switch as soon as Debian has all the tools for an easy conversion
available, and Python 3000 has reached the default release status.
e
-- 
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C Source Code Generator For Test Cases

[gamename]

Hi,

Can anyone recommend a good method of using python to generate c
source code?   I have tables of test cases to use as input to a
process which would generate the test's source code.  The Cheetah tool
looks interesting.  Has anyone used it? Any other suggestions?

TIA,
-T

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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[TheFlyingDutchman]

>
> The fact that you compare and criticise the simple annotations like
> static or abstract with the much more powerful decorator concept shows
> that, despite being the maintainer of a
> soon-to-be-ruling-the-python-world Python 3 fork, lack understanding of
> even the most basic language features. Which isn't exactly news.[1]

Don't you mean "lack appreciation for the non-basic language
features"? static, class and abstract
are basic language features that I appreciate. "decorators" have been
in Python for only a small part of its existence, they aren't in the
vast majority of languages (if any other language even has them) which
means people write all kinds of software without them. Or rather, most
of the software ever written didn't use decorators. Doesn't sound
basic at all.

>
> Maybe you should start using python more and _then_ start discussions
> about it's features, when you have good grounds and can provide viable
> alternatives? But I guess that's a wish that won't be granted

static and abstract keywords would seem to be very viable
alternatives. Viable enough that several language designers used them.

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Re: A question on python performance.

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

Joe Goldthwaite a écrit :
(snip)

>  I guess I still think of decorators as the people
> who got the gym ready for the prom.  I've tried getting up to speed on
> decorators but I haven't had much success.

The @decorator syntax is just syntactic sugar for a common use of higher 
order functions. So to understand decorators, you first need understand 
the concepts of higher order functions and closures. Both are documented 
  in many places on the web.

> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> 
>> IOW, direct access to obj.__class__.__dict__ bypasses both inheritence
>> and per-instance overriding.
> 
> Thanks for your response also Bruno. I don't understand the code you
> posted well enough yet to even ask a useful question. There are a number
> of things I haven't seen before.

It's very 101 python code, apart from this line :
   c2.dothis = dothat.__get__(c2, type(c2))

which is a way to dynamically attach a function as method to an 
instance, directly invoking the descriptor protocol (it's documented on 
python.org)

FWIW, it's most often done using the 'new' module, and possibly less 
confusing:

import new
c2.dothis = new.instancemethod(dothat, c2, type(c2))

> Now I really feel like a newbie!

My fault - this example wasn't that necessary, the main point was wrt/ 
direct access to instance.__class__.__dict__ bypassing normal attribute 
lookup rules so inherited attributes are not resolved...

> I'm working on it though so I may have some questions later.

You're welcome.

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Re: marshal bug?

[Gabriel Genellina]

En Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:26:39 -0300, Anurag <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
escribi�:

> Now is there a easy way to by pass it (hack around it)
> I tried various options but all fail e.g.
> i= 123; marshal.dumps("%d"%123) != marshal.dumps("%d"%i)

You can't. Don't use marshal to compare objects. You appear to assume that  
two objects that compare equal, should have the same marshalled  
representation, and that is simply not true.

py> [1, 2.0, 3+0j, "4"] == [1.0, 2+0j, 3, u"4"]
True

> So maybe I have to change all my code to use pickle, which also
> consumes for memory per string.

Neither marshal nor pickle guarantee that equal objects have equal  
representations, so in this regard pickle won't help either.
Maybe if you explain what you really want to do someone could suggest a  
solution.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina

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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Erik Jones]

On Sep 27, 2007, at 8:17 PM, Steve Holden wrote:

> James Stroud wrote:
>> Steve Holden wrote:
>>> I wondered if a straw poll could get some idea of readers' thoughts
>>> about when they will be migrating to 3.0 on, so I used the new  
>>> widget on
>>> Blogger to add a poll for that.
>>>
>>> I'd appreciate if if you would go to
>>>
>>>   http://holdenweb.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>> and register your vote on your intended migration timescale.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>
>> I'm going to abstain voting until 'public beta + about 1 year' is  
>> a choice.
>>
> Richard Jones wrote:
>> I'll use the "no plans" response for my actual "no simple answer"  
>> real
>> response.
>>
>>
> So what we need is a poll on what the questions should be. I *love*  
> c.l.py.

Does professional vs. personal use matter here?  What if I plan to  
switch in the morning or at midnight on the first solstice after the  
second alpha release?  Is Mercury or Venus in retrograde?  These  
things matter... :)

Erik Jones

Software Developer | Emma®
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
800.595.4401 or 615.292.5888
615.292.0777 (fax)

Emma helps organizations everywhere communicate & market in style.
Visit us online at http://www.myemma.com


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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Steve Holden]

TheFlyingDutchman wrote:
> On Sep 28, 10:01 am, Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:42:49 -0700, TheFlyingDutchman wrote:
>>> Which of the common languages have higher order functions and what is
>>> the syntax?
>> C, C++, Pascal, Perl, PHP, Ruby have them.  And of course the functional
>> languages, most notably Lisp and Scheme as you asked for common languages.
>>
>> Don't know if C#'s delegates qualify.
>>
>> Ciao,
>> Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch
> 
> What is the syntax of a higher order function in C, C++ and Pascal?
> 
This is like listening to a four-year-old torment its parents with 
incessant questions. Do you *have* to ask every question that pops into 
your mind?

regards
  Steve
-- 
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Holden Web LLC/Ltd   http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb  http://del.icio.us/steve.holden

Sorry, the dog ate my .sigline
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Stephan Deibel]

Ian Dickinson wrote:
> Never would look like a good time scale to me given that a lot of the stuff I 
> use is being ripped out

Has any one actually converted any real code or significant bits of code
using the 3.0 converter (in the sandbox somewhere), and if so what kinds
of things actually failed?

Nothing I've read about 3.0 has alarmed me that much yet, but I've not
yet actually tried converting code for it (except a few extension modules,
which at least _compiled_ just fine against 3.0).

- Stephan
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[TheFlyingDutchman]

On Sep 28, 9:30 am, "Diez B. Roggisch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > You said it was a most basic language feature. I still haven't heard
> > anything that leads me to believe that statement is correct. What
> > languages implemented decorators as a most basic language feature?
>
> I was talking about Python, the programming language that is discussed in
> this NG
>
> > Python didn't have them for over a decade so it doesn't qualify.
>
> Says who? For further comments, see below.

I had the impression you were saying it was a basic language feature
of most languages. In any event Guido Van Rossum didn't include them
for over a decade. If he felt they were a basic language feature it
seems that he would have included them in 1991.

>
>
>
> >> >> Maybe you should start using python more and _then_ start discussions
> >> >> about it's features, when you have good grounds and can provide viable
> >> >> alternatives? But I guess that's a wish that won't be granted
>
> >> > static and abstract keywords would seem to be very viable
> >> > alternatives. Viable enough that several language designers used them.
>
> >> As I said - you don't get it. The decorators (in conjunction with the
> >> descriptor protocol - ever heard of that?) are very powerful yet lead as
> >> an artifact to simple, declarative implementations of features you like,
> >> namely static and abstract methods.
>
> > You said I had to provide a viable alternative. I did that. I haven't
> > heard of the descriptor protocol.
>
> Where did you do provide that alternative?

def static
def abstract

I was not providing an alternative for decorators.


>
> > One of the problems with "getting" decorators is that they are not in
> > older books at all and newer books like Beginning Python from Novice
> > to Professional (c) 2005 Magnus Lie Hetland, that I own, devote almost
> > nothing to them. Out of 640 pages they are only mentioned
> > in one paragraph that is in a section titled "Static Methods and Class
> > Methods",(and followed by a class example with @staticmethod and
> > @classmethod).
>
> > So it seems like Magnus Lie Hetland didn't think they were very
> > important and he had Professional in his book title.
>
> I consider "core features of a language" the features that are part of the
> specification and implementation. Neither do I care if there is anecdotal
> evidence of prior usage in other languages, nor who or who not thinks they
> are important enough to be dealt with in a book.

By that definition isn't anything that is part of a language a core
feature?  Weren't we talking about basic features?

>
> And above all, I don't consider the time things have been around _without_
> any feature as proof of their irrelevance - or do you consider cars being
> not core to western culture because they only have been around about 100
> years, whereas horses have been there for thousands of years? Happy riding,
> cowboy!

A relevant analogy would talk about a feature of cars that was not on
them in the beginning but has been added later and whether it was a
basic (or now, core) feature. Your definition of core feature given
above means that anything on a car when it comes out of the factory is
a core feature.

>
> Python 2.4 has been released in 2003, btw - so decorators are around for 4
> years now.
>
> So unless you come up with a definition of "core feature of a language" that
> someone respectable in the CS-community wrote that features "time being
> around" or "random book authors consider worthy" or "persons lacking the
> motivation to really dig into do finally get it", I consider your
> definition worthless. Agreed?
>

Since you defined a core feature (haven't seen your definition of a
basic feature) as anything in the specification or implementation, I
agree that it makes sense for you to disregard anything that limits
core features to something less than everything.


> >> Besides, those 'several language designers' seem to think that the
> >> introduction of keywords isn't enough, but a general purpose annotation
> >> scheme seems to be viable - or how do you explain e.g. JDK 1.5
> >> Annotations?
>
> > I certainly wouldn't call them a basic language feature. Java 1.0 came
> > out in January 1996, Java 1.5 in September 2004. It doesn't appear
> > that the language designer of Java, James Gosling, is still at the
> > wheel or BDFL. But yes, Java is showing signs of "complexity creep".
> > You'll be happy to know that I really dislike the C++ template syntax
> > and Java has decided to add something similar.
>
> Again, your anecdotal language feature definition is nonsense.
>
> By the way, considering generics and C++-templates as "something similar"
> shows the inclined beholder that there are other languages out there you
> don't really understand.

For me understanding is all I can hope to attain. Really understanding
is something I must yield to the corps d'elite.


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Can I overload the compare (cmp()) function for a Lists ([]) index function?

[xkenneth]

Looking to do something similair. I'm working with alot of timestamps
and if they're within a couple seconds I need them to be indexed and
removed from a list.
Is there any possible way to index with a custom cmp() function?

I assume it would be something like...

list.index(something,mycmp)

Thanks!

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Re: recipient validation with smtplib

[Robin Becker]

Tim Williams wrote:
> On 28/09/2007, Robin Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Is there a way to use smtplib to get recipient validation. I can use smtplib
>> quite happily to send emails using the locahost's sendmail, but sendmail is 
>> just
>>  fire and forget, so some bad addresses eg [EMAIL PROTECTED] don't cause any
>> error in the sending application. I know some smtp setups do enforce 
>> recipient
>> validation, but it doesn't seem terribly easy to do this with sendmail. I
>> wondered if there were some way to do this in python?
> 
> There is no way of  validating *every* email address you send to using
> SMTP alone.   Some servers accept every address and bounce later - as
> you have found out. So for the purpose of the SMTP client, or relaying
> server,  the address is valid at sending time to those servers.
> 
> Checking DNS for MX records is a possibility for removing some bad
> addresses, but it's not fool proof as the RFCs don't require MX
> records to exist for a domain to be able to receive email.  If no MX
> records are present, one (and only one!) IP address returned from the
> domain's A record(s) should be tried.
> 
> HTH :)
Thanks, it's at least ammunition for me to say it cannot easily be done. I 
found 
this milter

http://www.jmaimon.com/sendmail/callahead-milter/

but I think this will cause every send to be checked which is probably not what 
we need.
-- 
Robin Becker

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Re: Can I overload the compare (cmp()) function for a Lists ([]) index function?

[irstas]

On Sep 28, 8:30 pm, xkenneth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Looking to do something similair. I'm working with alot of timestamps
> and if they're within a couple seconds I need them to be indexed and
> removed from a list.
> Is there any possible way to index with a custom cmp() function?
>
> I assume it would be something like...
>
> list.index(something,mycmp)
>
> Thanks!

Wouldn't it be enough to get the items that are "within a couple of
seconds" out of the list and into another list. Then you can process
the other list however you want. Like this:

 def isNew(x):
 return x < 5

 data = range(20)
 print data
 out, data = filter(isNew, data), filter(lambda x: not isNew(x), data)
 print out, data

Why do you want to use 'index'?

Your suggestion "list.index.__cmp__ = mycmp" certainly doesn't do
anything good. In fact, it just fails because the assignment is
illegal.. I don't think any documentation suggests doing that, so why
are you even trying to do that? It's just not a good idea to invent
semantics and hope that they work, in general.

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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Diez B. Roggisch]

TheFlyingDutchman wrote:

> 
>>
>> The fact that you compare and criticise the simple annotations like
>> static or abstract with the much more powerful decorator concept shows
>> that, despite being the maintainer of a
>> soon-to-be-ruling-the-python-world Python 3 fork, lack understanding of
>> even the most basic language features. Which isn't exactly news.[1]
> 
> Don't you mean "lack appreciation for the non-basic language
> features"? static, class and abstract
> are basic language features that I appreciate. "decorators" have been
> in Python for only a small part of its existence, they aren't in the
> vast majority of languages (if any other language even has them) which
> means people write all kinds of software without them. Or rather, most
> of the software ever written didn't use decorators. Doesn't sound
> basic at all.

People did write all kinds of software in Assembler. And large portions of
these people complained about every feature that some new language
introduced.

All serious languages are turing-complete. So can we put away with this
non-sense argument right away, please?

>>
>> Maybe you should start using python more and _then_ start discussions
>> about it's features, when you have good grounds and can provide viable
>> alternatives? But I guess that's a wish that won't be granted
> 
> static and abstract keywords would seem to be very viable
> alternatives. Viable enough that several language designers used them.

As I said - you don't get it. The decorators (in conjunction with the
descriptor protocol - ever heard of that?) are very powerful yet lead as an
artifact to simple, declarative implementations of features you like,
namely static and abstract methods. 

And as you seem being so reluctant to let new features creep into the
language, the introduction of new keywords you like?

Besides, those 'several language designers' seem to think that the
introduction of keywords isn't enough, but a general purpose annotation
scheme seems to be viable - or how do you explain e.g. JDK 1.5 Annotations?

Diez
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Re: Delete spaces

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
> If I have a text file that is delimited by spaces,

spaces or tabs ?

> how do I import it
> and get to comma delimited?  Here is a row of data from the text file:
> 
> 1110:55:14  265   8.5
> 1.4+1.1   2.5   Class-2   0


> I tried a few examples from the group and it didn't work, since the
> file also has a header row and a row of seperators ( ---).  The
> lengths of each row is something like 130, so there are extra spaces
> after the last value as well.  I have tried joining and other things,
> but I couldn't figure out how to get the values to come together.
> Thanks.

This should answer your question - but certainly not solve your problem 
(cf below):

f = open('/path/to/file.txt');
file.readline(); # skip headers
for line in f:
   # skip separators
   if line.startswith('---'):
 continue
   parts = filter(line.rstrip().split())
   print ';'.join(parts)

f.close()


Now the problem is that, obviously, the position of a group of data in a 
line is meaningfull, so just filtering out spaces isn't the solution. 
Did you check that it's not really a tab-delimited file ? If yes, doing 
line.split('\t') might help. Or just trying with the csv module FWIW.

My 2 cents...
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Chris Mellon]

On 9/28/07, TheFlyingDutchman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sep 28, 2:49 am, "Diez B. Roggisch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > TheFlyingDutchman wrote:
> >

> > All serious languages are turing-complete. So can we put away with this
> > non-sense argument right away, please?
>
> You said it was a most basic language feature. I still haven't heard
> anything that leads me to believe that statement is correct. What
> languages implemented decorators as a most basic language feature?
> Python didn't have them for over a decade so it doesn't qualify.
>

Decorators are syntax sugar for higher order functions. Higher order
functions are a both a basic and a fundamental language feature, and
exist in many languages. The fact that you don't know this just
proves, once again, that you like to talk more than you like to learn.
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Re: recipient validation with smtplib

[Tim Williams]

On 28/09/2007, Robin Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is there a way to use smtplib to get recipient validation. I can use smtplib
> quite happily to send emails using the locahost's sendmail, but sendmail is 
> just
>  fire and forget, so some bad addresses eg [EMAIL PROTECTED] don't cause any
> error in the sending application. I know some smtp setups do enforce recipient
> validation, but it doesn't seem terribly easy to do this with sendmail. I
> wondered if there were some way to do this in python?

There is no way of  validating *every* email address you send to using
SMTP alone.   Some servers accept every address and bounce later - as
you have found out. So for the purpose of the SMTP client, or relaying
server,  the address is valid at sending time to those servers.

Checking DNS for MX records is a possibility for removing some bad
addresses, but it's not fool proof as the RFCs don't require MX
records to exist for a domain to be able to receive email.  If no MX
records are present, one (and only one!) IP address returned from the
domain's A record(s) should be tried.

HTH :)
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[TheFlyingDutchman]

>
> Decorators are syntax sugar for higher order functions. Higher order
> functions are a both a basic and a fundamental language feature, and
> exist in many languages. The fact that you don't know this just
> proves, once again, that you like to talk more than you like to learn.

Which of the common languages have higher order functions and what is
the syntax?

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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Diez B. Roggisch]

Paul Rubin wrote:

> "Diez B. Roggisch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> All serious languages are turing-complete. So can we put away with this
>> non-sense argument right away, please?
> 
> Actually the so called "total" languages aren't Turing-complete.  I
> think Coq is an example: every Coq function must return a value.  So



Please, Paul. There is no need to hijack every thread to show off your mad
functional and wicked staticly typed programming language skillz. We had
that discussion at a different time, and you very well know that with
serious I didn't mean "can be used to program rockets that don't fall of
the earth", but that aren't toy-languages used to solve real-world
problems.

Diez
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Francesco Guerrieri]

On 9/28/07, TheFlyingDutchman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sep 28, 10:57 am, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > This is like listening to a four-year-old torment its parents with
> > incessant questions. Do you *have* to ask every question that pops into
> > your mind?
> >
>
> In this case I asked it as part of the original question and it was
> ignored. I have programmed in C and C++ and a little Pascal many years
> ago. I don't remember anything about Higher Order Functions and would
> like to see exactly how you do it and to verify the contention.


You could just google for it. Just in case your connection to google
or other similar search engines has been disabled for some reason,
here are some links.

Try for instance

http://okmij.org/ftp/c++-digest/Lambda-CPP-more.html#Ex3

or

http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~yannis/fc++/

or

http://www.boost.org/libs/mpl/doc/tutorial/higher-order.html

francesco
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Re: [Zope] how do I test for the current item in an iteration

[Dieter Maurer]

kamal hamzat wrote at 2007-9-28 16:36 +0100:
>I have this error after i added the if statement
>
>Error Type: TypeError
>Error Value: mybrains.__cmp__(x,y) requires y to be a 'mybrains', not a 'int'
>
>
>for i in context.zCatNewsCurrent():
> if i <= 5:  
>print "%s: %s: %s" % (i.id, i.author, i.summary)

You are aware that you use "i" both as an integer ("i <= 5")
as well as a structure ("i.id", "i.author", ...).

Python is quite polymorph -- but there are some limits.

Andreas suggestion was good: "enumerate" may help you...



-- 
Dieter
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Jean-Paul Calderone]

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:04:39 -0700, TheFlyingDutchman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [snip]
>
>In this case I asked it as part of the original question and it was
>ignored. I have programmed in C and C++ and a little Pascal many years
>ago. I don't remember anything about Higher Order Functions and would
>like to see exactly how you do it and to verify the contention.
>

Perhaps you could do a bit of independent research.  Then your messages
to the group could contain more thoughtful questions and responses.

Jean-Paul
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[TheFlyingDutchman]

On Sep 28, 10:57 am, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> TheFlyingDutchman wrote:
> > On Sep 28, 10:01 am, Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:42:49 -0700, TheFlyingDutchman wrote:
> >>> Which of the common languages have higher order functions and what is
> >>> the syntax?
> >> C, C++, Pascal, Perl, PHP, Ruby have them.  And of course the functional
> >> languages, most notably Lisp and Scheme as you asked for common languages.
>
> >> Don't know if C#'s delegates qualify.
>
> >> Ciao,
> >> Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch
>
> > What is the syntax of a higher order function in C, C++ and Pascal?
>
> This is like listening to a four-year-old torment its parents with
> incessant questions. Do you *have* to ask every question that pops into
> your mind?
>

In this case I asked it as part of the original question and it was
ignored. I have programmed in C and C++ and a little Pascal many years
ago. I don't remember anything about Higher Order Functions and would
like to see exactly how you do it and to verify the contention.


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Re: OCBC connection

[Steve Holden]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Sep 28, 9:57 am, "Sugrue, Sean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I'm trying to make an odbc connection to postgresql which is on a server
>> using python.
>> Does anyone have a code snippet to make a basic connection with a select
>> query?
>>
>> Sean
> 
> Sean,
> 
> This appears to be what you're looking for:
> 
> http://www.devx.com/opensource/Article/29071
> 
> See also Python Database spec and module page:
> 
> http://www.python.org/topics/database/
> 
Mike:

This doesn't address the ODBC part of the inquiry. I was actually going 
to respond saying I wasn't aware of an ODBC driver for PostgreSQL 
(though I'd be surprised if there wasn't one).

Using the psycopg2 module, which is my preferred PostgreSQL interface 
module, it's easy to answer:

 >>> curs = conn.cursor()
 >>> import psycopg2 as db
 >>> conn = db.connect(database="pycon", user="username",
 password="password", host="localhost", port=5432)
 >>> curs = conn.cursor()
 >>> curs.execute("SELECT orgid, orgname FROM organization")
 >>> from pprint import pprint # just for neatness
 >>> pprint(curs.fetchall())
[(1, 'AB Strakt'),
  (79, 'DevIS'),
 ...
  (113, 'Test Organization'),
  (19, 'Holden Web LLC')]
 >>>

regards
  Steve
-- 
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Holden Web LLC/Ltd   http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb  http://del.icio.us/steve.holden

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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Paul Rubin]

TheFlyingDutchman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> What is the syntax of a higher order function in C, C++ and Pascal?

  void qsort(int *array, int length, int width, int (*compare)());

is a C library example.  I think we'd describe qsort as a HOF since
one of its arguments (the comparison routine) is a function.  We
wouldn't say that C has first class functions like Python or Scheme
does, since you can't create new functions at runtime.
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Re: OCBC connection

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 2007-09-28 20:07, Steve Holden wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> On Sep 28, 9:57 am, "Sugrue, Sean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> I'm trying to make an odbc connection to postgresql which is on a server
>>> using python.
>>> Does anyone have a code snippet to make a basic connection with a select
>>> query?
>>>
>>> Sean
>> Sean,
>>
>> This appears to be what you're looking for:
>>
>> http://www.devx.com/opensource/Article/29071
>>
>> See also Python Database spec and module page:
>>
>> http://www.python.org/topics/database/
>>
> Mike:
> 
> This doesn't address the ODBC part of the inquiry. I was actually going 
> to respond saying I wasn't aware of an ODBC driver for PostgreSQL 
> (though I'd be surprised if there wasn't one).

There is one:

http://www.postgresql.org/ftp/odbc/versions/

and it works quite well with mxODBC on all supported platforms.

Here's a step-by-step guide for the Windows installation:

http://www.sparxsystems.com/EAUserGuide/setupapostgresqlodbcdriver.htm

Note that you should add these settings to your odbc.ini
section for the PostgreSQL data source in order to avoid
problems with BLOBs:

# Fetch BYTEA and TEXT as LongVarXXX column types:
ByteaAsLongVarBinary = 1
TextAsLongVarchar = 1

Alternatively, you can try the OpenLink driver:

http://uda.openlinksw.com/odbc/st/odbc-postgres-st/

If you're on Max OS, you should have a look at the ActualTech
drivers:

http://www.actualtechnologies.com/product_opensourcedatabases.php

Regards,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Sep 28 2007)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/
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>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/


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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[TheFlyingDutchman]

On Sep 28, 11:21 am, "Francesco Guerrieri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> On 9/28/07, TheFlyingDutchman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 28, 10:57 am, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > This is like listening to a four-year-old torment its parents with
> > > incessant questions. Do you *have* to ask every question that pops into
> > > your mind?
>
> > In this case I asked it as part of the original question and it was
> > ignored. I have programmed in C and C++ and a little Pascal many years
> > ago. I don't remember anything about Higher Order Functions and would
> > like to see exactly how you do it and to verify the contention.
>
> You could just google for it. Just in case your connection to google
> or other similar search engines has been disabled for some reason,
> here are some links.
>
> Try for instance
>
> http://okmij.org/ftp/c++-digest/Lambda-CPP-more.html#Ex3
>
> or
>
> http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~yannis/fc++/
>
> or
>
> http://www.boost.org/libs/mpl/doc/tutorial/higher-order.html
>
Correct me if I am wrong, but none of those examples showed something
in C++ similar to a decorator in Python - that is, unique syntax in
the language for implementing a Higher Order Function. One thing I
will say about those examples is that they make Python decorators look
sweet!

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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[TheFlyingDutchman]

On Sep 28, 11:16 am, Jean-Paul Calderone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:04:39 -0700, TheFlyingDutchman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > [snip]
>
> >In this case I asked it as part of the original question and it was
> >ignored. I have programmed in C and C++ and a little Pascal many years
> >ago. I don't remember anything about Higher Order Functions and would
> >like to see exactly how you do it and to verify the contention.
>
> Perhaps you could do a bit of independent research.  Then your messages
> to the group could contain more thoughtful questions and responses.
>
But you miss the fact that I am providing value to the group by
providing unthoughtful questions and unthoughtful responses. By having
most of the pocket protectors being thrown at me, I provide a
diversion that allows others to speak more freely and without fear of
reproach.


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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[TheFlyingDutchman]

On Sep 28, 11:16 am, Jean-Paul Calderone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:04:39 -0700, TheFlyingDutchman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > [snip]
>
> >In this case I asked it as part of the original question and it was
> >ignored. I have programmed in C and C++ and a little Pascal many years
> >ago. I don't remember anything about Higher Order Functions and would
> >like to see exactly how you do it and to verify the contention.
>
> Perhaps you could do a bit of independent research.  Then your messages
> to the group could contain more thoughtful questions and responses.
>
But you miss the fact that I am providing value to the group by
providing unthoughtful questions and unthoughtful responses. By having
most of the pocket protectors being thrown at me, I provide a
diversion that allows others to speak more freely and without fear of
reproach.


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Bug with lists of pairs of lists and append()

[Gabriel Zachmann]

Well,

could some kind soul please explain to me why the following trivial code 
is misbehaving?


#!/usr/bin/python
s = []
l = [ 0 ]
r = [0, 0]
while r:
x = (l,r)
print x
s.append( x )
l.append( r.pop(0) )
print s



The output I get is:

([0], [0, 0])
([0, 0], [0])
[([0, 0, 0], []), ([0, 0, 0], [])]

and the error is in the last line: the two pairs in the outer list are 
identical and they should be equal to the pairs one the first and the 
2nd line, respectively! Shouldn't they?

I think I'm going nuts -- for the life of me I don't see what's going on ...

Thanks a lot in advance for any insights, etc.

Best regards,
Gabriel.
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Diez B. Roggisch]

TheFlyingDutchman wrote:

> On Sep 28, 11:16 am, Jean-Paul Calderone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:04:39 -0700, TheFlyingDutchman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>> > [snip]
>>
>> >In this case I asked it as part of the original question and it was
>> >ignored. I have programmed in C and C++ and a little Pascal many years
>> >ago. I don't remember anything about Higher Order Functions and would
>> >like to see exactly how you do it and to verify the contention.
>>
>> Perhaps you could do a bit of independent research.  Then your messages
>> to the group could contain more thoughtful questions and responses.
>>
> But you miss the fact that I am providing value to the group by
> providing unthoughtful questions and unthoughtful responses. By having
> most of the pocket protectors being thrown at me, I provide a
> diversion that allows others to speak more freely and without fear of
> reproach.

Or bind resources of these pocket protectors that otherwise would lead to
answers for people that do seek enlightment...

Diez
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Steve Holden]

TheFlyingDutchman wrote:
> On Sep 28, 11:16 am, Jean-Paul Calderone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:04:39 -0700, TheFlyingDutchman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>> wrote:
>>> [snip]
>>> In this case I asked it as part of the original question and it was
>>> ignored. I have programmed in C and C++ and a little Pascal many years
>>> ago. I don't remember anything about Higher Order Functions and would
>>> like to see exactly how you do it and to verify the contention.
>> Perhaps you could do a bit of independent research.  Then your messages
>> to the group could contain more thoughtful questions and responses.
>>
> But you miss the fact that I am providing value to the group by
> providing unthoughtful questions and unthoughtful responses. By having
> most of the pocket protectors being thrown at me, I provide a
> diversion that allows others to speak more freely and without fear of
> reproach.
> 
> 
It's the knives and hand grenades you want to worry about. We are a very 
friendly and welcoming group, but we do have our limits. You're fast 
approaching 100% on my trollometer.

regards
  Steve
-- 
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Re: C Source Code Generator For Test Cases

[Diez B. Roggisch]

gamename wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good method of using python to generate c
> source code?   I have tables of test cases to use as input to a
> process which would generate the test's source code.  The Cheetah tool
> looks interesting.  Has anyone used it? Any other suggestions?

How about using c-types to access your C-stuff to test, and use python + the
testcase-tables to invoke that?

Diez
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[TheFlyingDutchman]

>
> Or bind resources of these pocket protectors that otherwise would lead to
> answers for people that do seek enlightment...

I don't think it would be correct to characterize my posts as not
seeking enlightenment. I do also happen to voice my opinion which
seems appropriate since this can be characterized as a discussion
group. It theoretically is possible for a discussion group to tolerate
opinions that diverge from the majority.

One issue I have with this group and that I encountered many years ago
in the Perl group is that there is no separate group
comp.lang.python.beginner where you can ask questions without getting
hit with RTFM! and the like.

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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Diez B. Roggisch]

TheFlyingDutchman wrote:

> 
>>
>> Or bind resources of these pocket protectors that otherwise would lead to
>> answers for people that do seek enlightment...
> 
> I don't think it would be correct to characterize my posts as not
> seeking enlightenment. I do also happen to voice my opinion which
> seems appropriate since this can be characterized as a discussion
> group. It theoretically is possible for a discussion group to tolerate
> opinions that diverge from the majority.

I would characterize

"""
I like how someone here characterized decorators - those silly @
things. They remind me of Perl. Not adding keywords for abstract and
static is like Perl not adding a keyword for class.
"""

not as seeking enlightenment, but as pure trolling. Disqualifying features
without actually understanding them as "silly" certainly doesn't lie on one
of the many path's to enlightenment known man - which to my knowledge
usually require more humble approaches

> One issue I have with this group and that I encountered many years ago
> in the Perl group is that there is no separate group
> comp.lang.python.beginner where you can ask questions without getting
> hit with RTFM! and the like.

And I wish people that have no clue about the deeper workings of Python
wouldn't insist on commenting on these in inappropriate ways as above, but
instead try and _understand_ them before debuking them or suggesting
changes.

Diez
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Re: GUI for viewing/editing python data structures?

[Joshua J. Kugler]

On Thursday 27 September 2007 22:40, David wrote:

> On 9/27/07, Joshua J. Kugler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> A while back, I seem to remember coming across a small program that could
>> view and edit python data structures via a nice expanding tree view.  I'm
>> now in need of something like that (to verify data is imported correctly
>> into a shelve file) and having a GUI would be much simpler than trying to
>> wade through the output of str(d) or repr(d).
>>
>> I've tried googling with the obvious keywords (gui (view OR edit) python
>> data structures) but t didn't get me anywhere.
>>
>> Pointers?
>>
> 
> non-gui alternatives: Try pprint module. Or output as yaml (external
> library) into a text file. You could also output as XML (using
> built-in python modules), save to file and then use Firefox or another
> XML gui to inspect it. I haven't done the latter before but it should
> work.

I may give those a try.  I was also looking at the editing aspect too.  But
that's a good start.

Thanks.

j

-- 
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Lead System Admin -- Senior Programmer
http://www.eeinternet.com
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[George Sakkis]

On Sep 28, 3:29 pm, TheFlyingDutchman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> One issue I have with this group and that I encountered many years ago
> in the Perl group is that there is no separate group
> comp.lang.python.beginner where you can ask questions without getting
> hit with RTFM! and the like.

Which shows once again that you're trying to break the world record of
being wrong in as many sentences as possible:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

You would do yourself (and others) a favor by migrating there for a
few weeks or months.

George

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Re: OCBC connection

[kyosohma]

On Sep 28, 1:07 pm, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > On Sep 28, 9:57 am, "Sugrue, Sean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> I'm trying to make an odbc connection to postgresql which is on a server
> >> using python.
> >> Does anyone have a code snippet to make a basic connection with a select
> >> query?
>
> >> Sean
>
> > Sean,
>
> > This appears to be what you're looking for:
>
> >http://www.devx.com/opensource/Article/29071
>
> > See also Python Database spec and module page:
>
> >http://www.python.org/topics/database/
>
> Mike:
>
> This doesn't address the ODBC part of the inquiry. I was actually going
> to respond saying I wasn't aware of an ODBC driver for PostgreSQL
> (though I'd be surprised if there wasn't one).
>
> Using the psycopg2 module, which is my preferred PostgreSQL interface
> module, it's easy to answer:
>
>  >>> curs = conn.cursor()
>  >>> import psycopg2 as db
>  >>> conn = db.connect(database="pycon", user="username",
>  password="password", host="localhost", port=5432)
>  >>> curs = conn.cursor()
>  >>> curs.execute("SELECT orgid, orgname FROM organization")
>  >>> from pprint import pprint # just for neatness
>  >>> pprint(curs.fetchall())
> [(1, 'AB Strakt'),
>   (79, 'DevIS'),
>  ...
>   (113, 'Test Organization'),
>   (19, 'Holden Web LLC')]
>  >>>
>
> regards
>   Steve
> --
> Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC/Ltd  http://www.holdenweb.com
> Skype: holdenweb  http://del.icio.us/steve.holden
>
> Sorry, the dog ate my .sigline

Whoops! I almost posted some code using the adodb or the odbc module,
which is what I would have probably used, but I figured I'd take a
look and see if there was a postgres module available. I'm not seeing
any basic differences between your code and the code I linked to
though...except that if I ran your first line of code, I would get an
exception as "conn" hasn't been defined yet.

Whatever. I apologize for being misleading(?)

Mike

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Re: Bug with lists of pairs of lists and append()

[TeroV]

Gabriel Zachmann wrote:
> Well,
> 
> could some kind soul please explain to me why the following trivial code 
> is misbehaving?
> 
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python
> s = []
> l = [ 0 ]
> r = [0, 0]
> while r:
> x = (l,r)
> print x
> s.append( x )
> l.append( r.pop(0) )
> print s
> 
> 
> 
> The output I get is:
> 
> ([0], [0, 0])
> ([0, 0], [0])
> [([0, 0, 0], []), ([0, 0, 0], [])]
> 
> and the error is in the last line: the two pairs in the outer list are 
> identical and they should be equal to the pairs one the first and the 
> 2nd line, respectively! Shouldn't they?
> 
> I think I'm going nuts -- for the life of me I don't see what's going on 
> ...
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance for any insights, etc.
> 
> Best regards,
> Gabriel.

You didn't say what it is supposed to do.
But, does replacing line "x = (l, r)" with "x = l[:], r[:]" do the trick?

In the original code you do basically the same as this
 >>> a = []
 >>> b = [1,2]
 >>> a.append(b)
 >>> b.append(3)
 >>> a
[[1, 2, 3]]

HTH :)
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Steve Holden]

George Sakkis wrote:
> On Sep 28, 3:29 pm, TheFlyingDutchman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> One issue I have with this group and that I encountered many years ago
>> in the Perl group is that there is no separate group
>> comp.lang.python.beginner where you can ask questions without getting
>> hit with RTFM! and the like.
> 
> Which shows once again that you're trying to break the world record of
> being wrong in as many sentences as possible:
> 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> 
> You would do yourself (and others) a favor by migrating there for a
> few weeks or months.
> 
> George
> 
Hopefully with a side dish of alt.attitude.adjustment.

It's not that we don't want you. it's just that you don't seem to 
realize how annoying you can be.

n the other hand, if you *do* realize how annoying you can be then 
please leave now and never come back ;-)

regards
  Steve
-- 
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Re: C Source Code Generator For Test Cases

[gamename]

>
> How about using c-types to access your C-stuff to test, and use python + the
> testcase-tables to invoke that?
>

Sure, that's possible.  But the source code for tests (once all the
parms are read)
still needs to be generated.  Calling the lib from python or from C,
there still
needs to be a way to generate 100+ test routines. ;-)

-T

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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[George Sakkis]

On Sep 28, 11:53 am, John Nagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> > John Nagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> TheFlyingDutchman wrote:
> >>> It seems that Python 3 is more significant for what it removes than
> >>> what it adds.
>
> >>> What are the additions that people find the most compelling?
> >> I'd rather see Python 2.5 finished, so it just works.
>
> > And I'd rather see peace on Earth and goodwill among men than _either_
> > Python 3 or your cherished "finished" 2.5 -- the comparison and implied
> > tradeoff make about as much sense as yours.
>
>  Insofar as Python has an organization, it's not adequately managing
> extension modules.  Each extension module has its own infrastructure,
> with its own build procedures, its own bug list, and its own maintainers.
> There's not even an archive.  Unlike CPAN, Cheese Shop is just a directory of
> URLs.
>
>  Take a look at how Perl does it.  Here are the instructions on
> how to contribute to CPAN:
>
>http://www.cpan.org/modules/04pause.html
>
> There's a way to get your module into the system, a standardized format,
> build, and installation procedure, and an archive which is mirrored.
> There's a common bug reporting system.  Modules abandoned by their
> original developers are not lost, and can be "adopted" by someone else.
>
>  Python doesn't have any of this.  And that's far more of a problem
> than Python 3.x.

Does Perl support extension modules, and if so, are they so prevalent
as in Python ? Either case, bringing up CPAN is moot in this case;
nothing can force an external open source contributor to maintain or
provide binaries for his packages. How is this a problem of the
*language* ?

George

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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[TheFlyingDutchman]

On Sep 28, 12:34 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> TheFlyingDutchman wrote:
>
> >> Or bind resources of these pocket protectors that otherwise would lead to
> >> answers for people that do seek enlightment...
>
> > I don't think it would be correct to characterize my posts as not
> > seeking enlightenment. I do also happen to voice my opinion which
> > seems appropriate since this can be characterized as a discussion
> > group. It theoretically is possible for a discussion group to tolerate
> > opinions that diverge from the majority.
>
> I would characterize
>
> """
> I like how someone here characterized decorators - those silly @
> things. They remind me of Perl. Not adding keywords for abstract and
> static is like Perl not adding a keyword for class.
> """
>
> not as seeking enlightenment, but as pure trolling. Disqualifying features
> without actually understanding them as "silly" certainly doesn't lie on one
> of the many path's to enlightenment known man - which to my knowledge
> usually require more humble approaches

Some posts seek enlightenment, some voice opinions. Opinions aren't
always voiced humbly. I don't think you will have to look far for
examples of people other than myself not expressing opinions humbly.

>
> > One issue I have with this group and that I encountered many years ago
> > in the Perl group is that there is no separate group
> > comp.lang.python.beginner where you can ask questions without getting
> > hit with RTFM! and the like.
>
> And I wish people that have no clue about the deeper workings of Python
> wouldn't insist on commenting on these in inappropriate ways as above, but
> instead try and _understand_ them before debunking them or suggesting
> changes.
>

I will grant you that "silly" is too strong a word to use in a group
of ardent users but I think it should be completely valid to gripe
about the syntax at least once.

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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Carsten Haese]

On Fri, 2007-09-28 at 13:00 -0700, TheFlyingDutchman wrote:
> Being in a land where every nit can be picked, I am surprised that you
> offered up a mailing list when I was asking for a newsgroup.

nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.tutor

-- 
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http://informixdb.sourceforge.net


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Re: OCBC connection

[Steve Holden]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
>>
>>  >>> curs = conn.cursor()
>>  >>> import psycopg2 as db
>>  >>> conn = db.connect(database="pycon", user="username",
>>  password="password", host="localhost", port=5432)
>>  >>> curs = conn.cursor()
>>  >>> curs.execute("SELECT orgid, orgname FROM organization")
>>  >>> from pprint import pprint # just for neatness
>>  >>> pprint(curs.fetchall())
>> [(1, 'AB Strakt'),
>>   (79, 'DevIS'),
>>  ...
>>   (113, 'Test Organization'),
>>   (19, 'Holden Web LLC')]
>>  >>>

> Whoops! I almost posted some code using the adodb or the odbc module,
> which is what I would have probably used, but I figured I'd take a
> look and see if there was a postgres module available. I'm not seeing
> any basic differences between your code and the code I linked to
> though...except that if I ran your first line of code, I would get an
> exception as "conn" hasn't been defined yet.
> 
> Whatever. I apologize for being misleading(?)
> 
I screwed up anyway - the first line shouldn't have been included.

But perhaps Sean could enlighten us as to whether ODBC is really a 
requirement, or simply the first solution that he thought of. I don't 
know why one would *require* ODBC.

regards
  Steve
-- 
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[TheFlyingDutchman]

On Sep 28, 12:45 pm, George Sakkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sep 28, 3:29 pm, TheFlyingDutchman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > One issue I have with this group and that I encountered many years ago
> > in the Perl group is that there is no separate group
> > comp.lang.python.beginner where you can ask questions without getting
> > hit with RTFM! and the like.
>
> Which shows once again that you're trying to break the world record of
> being wrong in as many sentences as possible:
>
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>
> You would do yourself (and others) a favor by migrating there for a
> few weeks or months.
>
> George

Being in a land where every nit can be picked, I am surprised that you
offered up a mailing list when I was asking for a newsgroup.

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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Steve Holden]

TheFlyingDutchman wrote:
> On Sep 28, 12:45 pm, George Sakkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Sep 28, 3:29 pm, TheFlyingDutchman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> One issue I have with this group and that I encountered many years ago
>>> in the Perl group is that there is no separate group
>>> comp.lang.python.beginner where you can ask questions without getting
>>> hit with RTFM! and the like.
>> Which shows once again that you're trying to break the world record of
>> being wrong in as many sentences as possible:
>>
>>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>>
>> You would do yourself (and others) a favor by migrating there for a
>> few weeks or months.
>>
>> George
> 
> Being in a land where every nit can be picked, I am surprised that you
> offered up a mailing list when I was asking for a newsgroup.
> 
That's because the tutor list doesn't offer a newsgroup. He was probably 
just trying to get rid of you.

Now at 98.75% ...

regards
  Steve
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RE: OCBC connection

[Sugrue, Sean]

I want to connect on the windows side to a solaris server which has a
postgres database installed.
I can connect to the postgres database using the postgres odbc
connection but I'm using excel. 
I'd rather use python because it ports easily over to solaris. I will
install psycopg2 and try the code 
that was sent.

Thanks
Sean  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Steve Holden
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 4:04 PM
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: Re: OCBC connection

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
>>
>>  >>> curs = conn.cursor()
>>  >>> import psycopg2 as db
>>  >>> conn = db.connect(database="pycon", user="username",
>>  password="password", host="localhost", port=5432)  >>> curs 
>> = conn.cursor()  >>> curs.execute("SELECT orgid, orgname FROM 
>> organization")  >>> from pprint import pprint # just for neatness  
>> >>> pprint(curs.fetchall()) [(1, 'AB Strakt'),
>>   (79, 'DevIS'),
>>  ...
>>   (113, 'Test Organization'),
>>   (19, 'Holden Web LLC')]
>>  >>>

> Whoops! I almost posted some code using the adodb or the odbc module, 
> which is what I would have probably used, but I figured I'd take a 
> look and see if there was a postgres module available. I'm not seeing 
> any basic differences between your code and the code I linked to 
> though...except that if I ran your first line of code, I would get an 
> exception as "conn" hasn't been defined yet.
> 
> Whatever. I apologize for being misleading(?)
> 
I screwed up anyway - the first line shouldn't have been included.

But perhaps Sean could enlighten us as to whether ODBC is really a
requirement, or simply the first solution that he thought of. I don't
know why one would *require* ODBC.

regards
  Steve
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Holden Web LLC/Ltd   http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb  http://del.icio.us/steve.holden

Sorry, the dog ate my .sigline

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List search

[Kevin Walzer]

I'm having a problem with searching a list. Here's my code:

mylist = ['x11', 'x11-wm', 'x11-system']

for line in mylist:
if 'x11' in line:
print line

This results in the following output:

x11
x11-wm
x11-system

I'm looking to return the list item that just has 'x11'.  How can I 
structure my search term so that this output is returned?
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Colin J. Williams]

Steve Holden wrote:
> TheFlyingDutchman wrote:
>> On Sep 28, 10:01 am, Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:42:49 -0700, TheFlyingDutchman wrote:
 Which of the common languages have higher order functions and what is
 the syntax?
>>> C, C++, Pascal, Perl, PHP, Ruby have them.  And of course the functional
>>> languages, most notably Lisp and Scheme as you asked for common languages.
>>>
>>> Don't know if C#'s delegates qualify.
>>>
>>> Ciao,
>>> Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch
>> What is the syntax of a higher order function in C, C++ and Pascal?
>>
> This is like listening to a four-year-old torment its parents with 
> incessant questions. Do you *have* to ask every question that pops into 
> your mind?
> 
> regards
>   Steve
Tut Tut!

A reasonable question is being asked.

Colin W.
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Re: List search

[Stefan Bellon]

On Fri, 28 Sep, Kevin Walzer wrote:

> I'm having a problem with searching a list. Here's my code:
> 
> mylist = ['x11', 'x11-wm', 'x11-system']
> 
> for line in mylist:
>   if 'x11' in line:
>   print line

Just compare for equality:

   if line == 'x11':

or

print "\n".join(x for x in mylist if x == 'x11')

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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Kay Schluehr]

On 28 Sep., 17:53, John Nagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Alex Martelli wrote:
> > John Nagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> TheFlyingDutchman wrote:
> >>> It seems that Python 3 is more significant for what it removes than
> >>> what it adds.
>
> >>> What are the additions that people find the most compelling?
> >> I'd rather see Python 2.5 finished, so it just works.
>
> > And I'd rather see peace on Earth and goodwill among men than _either_
> > Python 3 or your cherished "finished" 2.5 -- the comparison and implied
> > tradeoff make about as much sense as yours.
>
>  Insofar as Python has an organization, it's not adequately managing
> extension modules.  Each extension module has its own infrastructure,
> with its own build procedures, its own bug list, and its own maintainers.
> There's not even an archive.  Unlike CPAN, Cheese Shop is just a directory of
> URLs.

John, can't you please piss off?

Thanks, Kay

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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Colin J. Williams]

TheFlyingDutchman wrote:
>> Or bind resources of these pocket protectors that otherwise would lead to
>> answers for people that do seek enlightment...
> 
> I don't think it would be correct to characterize my posts as not
> seeking enlightenment. I do also happen to voice my opinion which
> seems appropriate since this can be characterized as a discussion
> group. It theoretically is possible for a discussion group to tolerate
> opinions that diverge from the majority.
+1
> 
> One issue I have with this group and that I encountered many years ago
> in the Perl group is that there is no separate group
> comp.lang.python.beginner where you can ask questions without getting
> hit with RTFM! and the like.
> 

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Re: List search

[Robert Kern]

Kevin Walzer wrote:
> I'm having a problem with searching a list. Here's my code:
> 
> mylist = ['x11', 'x11-wm', 'x11-system']
> 
> for line in mylist:
>   if 'x11' in line:
>   print line
> 
> This results in the following output:
> 
> x11
> x11-wm
> x11-system
> 
> I'm looking to return the list item that just has 'x11'.  How can I 
> structure my search term so that this output is returned?

line == 'x11'

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
 that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
 an underlying truth."
  -- Umberto Eco

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Re: List search

[Tim Williams]

On 28/09/2007, Kevin Walzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm having a problem with searching a list. Here's my code:
>
> mylist = ['x11', 'x11-wm', 'x11-system']
>
> for line in mylist:
>if 'x11' in line:
>print line
>
> This results in the following output:
>
> x11
> x11-wm
> x11-system
>

That output is correct,  you are asking your script to print any list
item containing x11 when what you actually wanted was a list item that
is the string 'x11'

mylist = ['x11', 'x11-wm', 'x11-system']
for item in mylist:
  if item ==  'x11':
   print line

If there is only ever one 'x11' in the list you could also consider

print mylist.index('x11')

and

print mylist[mylist.index('x11')]

Also, before iterating the whole list check that 'x11' exists

if 'x11' in mylist:
do stuff

and list comprehesions

print [x for x in mylist if x == 'x11']

HTH :)

Tim Williams
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[TheFlyingDutchman]

On Sep 28, 1:09 pm, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> That's because the tutor list doesn't offer a newsgroup. He was probably
> just trying to get rid of you.
>
> Now at 98.75% ...

Not sure if that's the reading on your trollmeter or on the meter that
measures what percentage of your posts you get huffy.

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Re: Python and SSL

[Heikki Toivonen]

Johny wrote:
> I need to use Python with SSL comunication betweeen servers.
> (I use hhtplib but I think urllib2 can also be used )
>  I think I need to use SSL root certificate and tell  a program to
> trust this certificate.

You can't do secure SSL with the builtin SSL support, you need to use a
third party module. There are a few available, including M2Crypto, TLS
Lite, pyOpenSSL and pyOpenSSL-extended. Since I am the maintainer of
M2Crypto I will naturally recommend that ;)

http://chandlerproject.org/Projects/MeTooCrypto

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Re: Python and SSL

[Giampaolo Rodolà]

I heard that python 2.6 will include full "server-side SSL
support" (whatever this means).
Is it true?

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Re: List search

[Kevin Walzer]

Robert Kern wrote:

> line == 'x11'
> 

D'oh! That was simple, wasn't it? *smacks head*

That did the trick. Thanks!

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
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Checking for the existence of Duplicates

[AndyB]

I have found a lot of material on removing duplicates from a list, but I 
am trying to find the most efficient way to just check for the existence 
of duplicates in a list.  Here is the best I have come up with so far:

 CheckList = [x[ValIndex] for x in  self.__XRList[z]]
 FilteredList = filter((lambda x:x != 0),CheckList)
 if len(FilteredList) > len(sets.Set(FilteredList)): return 
False

The first statement pulls the slice out of a matrix I need to check.
The filter statement gets rid of zeroes (they don't count as duplicates).
The if statement is the actual duplicates check

This is in a program that generates random numbers to do a brute force 
solve on a sudoku-like puzzle.  Once a certain level of difficulty in 
the puzzle is reached, performance goes off a cliff because the 
duplicate checking code, although fast, is executed so many times.
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Reentrancy of Python interpreter

[Brad Johnson]

I have embedded a single threaded instance of the Python interpreter in my
application.

I have a place where I execute a Python command that calls into C++ code which
then in turn calls back into Python using the same interpreter. I get a fatal
error which is "PyThreadStage_Get: no current thread."

I guess I understand why I can't have two invocations of the same interpreter
thread in one call stack, but how would I go about solving this?

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