[opensource-dev] Message Reception
Hey, an in-world club employee (security) i have worked with would like to know if there is some way to be able to pick up local text chat without moving the avi closer to the chat source, like the way you can cfg the viewer to hear voice chat from either where the avi's at or where the camera's at. i was sure i'd seen a way to do it, but i haven't been able to find the setting again. If there is a setting, but it doesn't work for pre-version 2 viewers, that won't be helpful. The user doesn't want to change to a version 2 viewer. Please excuse me if this is not the place to be asking this question. Thanks! Have an awesome day, - AK ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Message Reception
Bunny, one of the reasons i asked the question is that the "remote" idea here is not real clear. My friend has worked in the same SL club several hours per day, almost every day, since something like early 2007 as club security. The idea is to keep the place PG, among other things, since it gets a lot of traffic and you know how some people just can't behave. The club is big enough that people can hang out in corners and be out of text chat range for security. Security sometimes has to be kind of sneaky to catch people at what they're doing before they cause serious problems, often for minors or the usual griefer sort of thing. It's not like the idea is to listen in on someone who's even outside the club, and especially not in another region. Just 2x or maybe 3x text chat distance reception would be a fine solution. Thanks! - AK ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] no snowstorm meetings today
Oz, Merov, &c., then, please, turn off your computers and have a day off! Y'all deserve it! Thx for all you do, Happy Holidays!! - AK On 2010-12-27 13:36, Erin Mallory wrote: > Did i miss an announcement or have my times off? or did snowstorm meetings today just get quietly cancelled on account of weather? Today and the Monday after New Years next week are Linden Lab holidays. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges Hi Erin, Sorry for the absence of notice: today is actually an official day off at LL as part of Xmas. Cheers, - Merov On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Erin Mallory wrote: Did i miss an announcement or have my times off? or did snowstorm meetings today just get quietly cancelled on account of weather? ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated po ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Press release that affects us all!
Like, i thought we'd know if LL was being bought or for sale or anything, but still - Not Funny. i mean, maybe i just don't have a sense of humor or something. But y'know, Not Funny. - AK - DCS has just finished Acquiring Linden labs. The Linden Lab staff will be laid off and replaced with my own Staff from Xotmid Solutions. We will also be making some major changes to Second Life to improve the MMORPG aspects of it. For more information please visit http://dcsengine.com -- --- This email is a private and confidential communication. Any use of email may be subject to the laws and regulations of the United States. You may not Repost, Distribute nor reproduce any content of this message. --- --- ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] in-viewer translation is dead soon.
Hey Everybody, i don't know if i misunderstood or not, but are you really talking about Google translation services particularly picking on SL access? All the mail sounded to me like it was more of a policy decision at Google affecting everyone everywhere? It seems to me that way worse abuse has been stuff like i should be ashamed to admit, people like me stuffing through whole books from foreign languages into the translator for our classes. It seems like if Google is complaining about stuff the few thousand one-liners from SL in a day aren't that much compared to even one of the books i uh, "know about." Actually, considering what SL is and all that, you'd think Google would be into supporting it. What am i missing? - AK I think the main issue here is abuse due to bad coding. The real discussion should not be who it needs to move to or what other service can be abused next it should be how do we write better code to lesson the burden on whatever service we use. Secondlife has a LARGE userbase therefore any usage will be great but what can we do to make that usage more efficient Just think... right now every user who has machine translation enabled for google is translating every line of text they read. Even if someone else already translated it. Thats thousands of queries per second. None of that load makes any money for google or microsoft for that matter. So the service being abused on top of no revenue is kind of a slap in the face. SO maybe some thought into making the code a little better should be done first. Maybe some type of central caching service... I know security issues security issues but I am just throwing out ideas. Because to me 1500 different people translating the same line of text is just abuse and retarded. Maybe some kind of central proxy from secondlife can be setup so if the same line of text is queried it just spits out the translation thats cached to them. The cache lifetime should be short for security purposes but caching a translation for 5mins should be plenty of time for everyone receiving that text to get the cache translation. Just think of how much of a burden that will remove from google. I know it will put more of a burden on a secondlife server somewhere but not that much because its just spitting out cache its not like its translating any text or anything just serving cached data. You could even tell each TPV that if they want to offer translations they have to setup some type of caching. Hell it could probably even be some simple proxy with a decent cache time setup. I don't know the specifics but I know it can be done better. Sadly what has happened here is what happens when you don't put limits on a service. Crappy code is written and the service is abused. I am sure that google simply throttling the api will make quite a bit of better code emerge from the depths... That may even be Googles plan and why such a long period before its shut off completely. SO maybe the thought pattern should be "how can we do what we're doing better" instead of "who can we jump ship to next and abuse" Because like others have said google is a very big company, bandwidth is very easy to come by for them so if we are hurting them then its going to be worse for others. No body is better suited for such a task then google. Just my $0.02 :) On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Daniel wrote: > > The problem as pointed out by Tateru Nino on her blog is that Google is > > huge, and their > > users will "fail over" to other services like you are suggesting, > > causing them to get overloaded > > also. In that case, they may also decide it is too expensive to stay > > open, causing a chain > > reaction. > > > > Note that Google is not closing off all translation services. They are > > moving to using the > > Translate Element within web pages ( > > http://translate.google.com/translate_tools ). I assume > > the reason is a freestanding translator page does not bring in any > > revenue, while a web page element > > on pages that carry their adsense ads increases how many of their ads > > can be read by people around > > the world (ie makes money for them). > > > > The question is can you incorporate that web element as a substitute for > > what you are using now? > > >> >> From: "Philippe (Merov) Bossut" >> >> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] in-viewer translation is dead soon. >> >> >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> It shouldn't be too hard to substitute with another service. Someone has an >> >> alternative service to propose? >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> - Merov >> >> > > > > ___ > > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wik
[opensource-dev] Review viewer -- draw distance slider
Guys, the whole thing with the easily accessible slider for draw distance is really great! Inspiring, actually. It's almost enough to make me wanna try out the v2 viewer again. i hope the feature gets back-ported to Snowglobe v1 by someone better at that stuff than me. The binocs idea for the icon is the best! It's totally like the average person is going to think about it. And it's the way our eyes work. Maybe spend time coming up with the best binocs icon or icon loc so it doesn't get confused with what everybody sees for "search" everywhere, but i can't think of anything better unless it was a magnifying glass (also over-used), eyeglasses, or a telescope. Maybe somebody wants to look at a collection on the web of what camera mfrs put on their focus buttons? (Maybe just the word "ZOOM" instead of an image?) And, being able to pull it down as far as possible is a good thing. Sometimes in tight spaces with lots of avis anything else is just a waste. Or distraction. Or both. And however far out it can go, even for short periods or whatever would be awesome! There's the maps and then there's actually being able to *see* what's up. But one thing i don't think i've seen in the discussion, wouldn't it be a good idea to have an auto-reset take place on every tp? Have it go to some standard value that works pretty good most places, and it'll save forgetful or excited people problems. i mean, if the control is right there and easy to adjust, why not make it more useful than just improved eyesight? Thx again! You guys are great! - AK In case you missed the message from Oz in a different thread here is the review viewer for the proposed draw distance slider: http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repooz_project-3/rev/232119/index.html There is a temporary binocular graphic next to volume slider where you access the control from. There is discussion within LL if this will be taken in. The concerns are for new residents 1) having too many options on the screen and 2) performance or experience issues if the slider is moved too far in either direction. Please write back with your feedback, -Jonathan ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Review viewer -- draw distance slider
Hi! i found a cool idea on a camera. It had a single large tree on one end of the focus setting and 4 small trees on the other end. i know the draw distance slider isn't a focus button, but how about a single house pic on one end and a small cluster of houses on the other? Or maybe a group of skyscrapers? Maybe that's too much for the number of pixels available? The trees thing on the camera button looks pretty good. If you wanna see it, look up online doc for a Canon SX10. Thx! - AK Trouble with that is that LL already have that symbol used for Search and also for Zoom on the World Map, and it isn't really a 'zoom' feature From: Argent Stonecutter To: Hitomi Tiponi Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com; a...@skyhighway.com Sent: Sun, 12 June, 2011 16:38:35 Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Review viewer -- draw distance slider I think the icon should be a magnifying glass. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Review viewer -- draw distance slider
While clear, such an icon doesn't look much self-explaining to me with regard to its associated Draw Distance functionality. I still feel binoculars may be the best option. Binoculars may not be a commonly used glyph outside of SL, but it's a fact that many Second Life features are just .. not commonly used features. In most applications / online services / information environments or RL appliances, you just don't have the concept of "Draw Distance" or anything similar. On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:49, Hitomi Tiponi wrote: > > Yes it's possible (see attached) - but something like that says 'landscape' > > or 'plants' to me. > > > > > > From: Argent Stonecutter > > To: Hitomi Tiponi > > Cc: a...@skyhighway.com; opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com > > Sent: Mon, 13 June, 2011 1:58:54 > > Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Review viewer -- draw distance slider Hey guys, i had an idea and i tried to draw it, but it was sorta disappointing. It looks sorta ok at 32x32, but at 16x16 it starts to get kinda, "Huh?" See, it's supposed to be a hand drawing. Like holding a pencil, with an arrow underneath it pointing the direction it's drawing. i attached a copy of the 32x32 one to this message. You can laugh at it and call it names if you want. It was just an idea. i've been sick like fever puking for three days and today one of my teeth started on the pain like please just give me to the CIA and let them torture me to death thing, so it's not like you could possibly make anything hurt worse. Maybe it will even give someone a better idea? i can do way better graphic art, too, but maybe not while i'm shaking, sweating, and trying not to scream myself unconscious. Have fun! - AK > > > > On 2011-06-12, at 17:30, Hitomi Tiponi wrote: >> >> /me looks forward to seeing someone draw this one in a 16x16 pixel grid :) > > > > I think three small pine trees could be rendered in a 16x16 grid. > > > > ___ > > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > > privileges > > -- Opensource Obscure -- http://twitter.com/oobscure - http://opensourceobscure.com/lol discuss Second Life Viewer 2: http://j.mp/slv2group ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges<>___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Blocked
Hey y'all, i had something i wanted to do at work a coupla days ago that i coulda used SL for. It installed, but i couldn't get it to connect. Is there some kinda proxy setting that i need to fix to get SL to start from where i work? They have a proxy server there that all external traffic has to go through. i know i have to tell Firefox & everything else about it all the time to get them to work. i looked in the XML but didn't see anything inspiring in the little bit of time i had for it. The thing i have to do is just a dumb test, but SL is a pretty good thing to do it with, and an excuse to spend maybe 10 whole minutes doing SL from work about once a week. Thx! - AK ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Blocked
Robert, thx for the info, but i think the page is telling me the answer is actually, "No," because i don't have any access to the company's network stuff. They look at you funny if you even ask about it. i can configure a test machine any way i want to, but i can't do anything at all at all to the network. How depressing :-( Since it is for a real work project, i think i'll show the page to the IT guy, but i think this is just going to be another one of those funny looks experiences, and a "I'll get back to you later" that ends up being a not overly polite "helpful suggestion" from my boss. But i think it will be worth it just for the opportunity of getting to explain what i'm doing. - AK On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:17 PM, wrote: > > Hey y'all, i had something i wanted to do at work a coupla days ago that i > > coulda used SL for. It installed, but i couldn't get it to connect. Is > > there some kinda proxy setting that i need to fix to get SL to start from > > where i work? short answer is yes long answer is http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Configuring_your_firewall -- Robert L Martin ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Blocked
Hey Helpful People!
Thx, Dave. i got your suggestion, but hadn't tried it out yet. See, i
don't actually know as much about computers & stuff like that as i would
like people to assume, my boss & present company included. To be honest,
your message seemed really great, but it confused me and i was going to
have to do a lot of reading to figure it out! :-) But, your parenthesized
synopsis in the attached message here magically cleared a whole lot of it
up. Maybe. We'll see. i don't get to do that test that i could've used
SL for again until next month, but i'm going to do my best to be ready for
it then. So, thx again for what looks like it's probably great advice!
And, not to be all that picky or sensitive or whatever, if life hasn't
taught me anything else it's to take what people give you and make the
best of it, whatever it is. (Wasn't there someone Forrest Gump that said
the same kinda thing, only comparing it to a box of chocolates or
something?) Serious, it really doesn't matter all that much here, but if
you're talking about me, "she" & those pronouns are the ones to use, if
you don't mind? i mean thx for inviting me into the club and all, but i
think the bathrooms in it have those gross stand-up things that i don't
even ever wanna be in the same room with.
Thx also for all the work y'all do to make SL - and make it a better
place. i don't think of it in the same "game" way almost everyone else
does, but it gets the job done just the same. This whole thing has been a
great learning experience for me not just for the in-world part but for
listening to y'all develop the source and the tantalizing opportunity to
get involved in the whole exciting project myself. (One day...)
Sorry for all the off-topic content. Please return to your regularly
scheduled programming. ("Programming." hahahahaha)
- AK
Socksified works but yeah, takes more "liberal" corp IT attitudes than
most will allow. I sent offlist the solution I used.. (openvpn to home
networks static IP and route all SL traffic down that using local routes
on client and openvpn server)
On 7/15/2011 12:53 AM, Tateru Nino wrote:
> > That's assuming they have the right kind of proxies there. HTTP proxies
> > are commonplace, but SOCKS proxies are far less common and more tightly
> > controlled on the corporate networks. He almost certainly has access to
> > the former, but maybe not to the latter.
> >
> > On 15/07/2011 3:45 PM, Lance Corrimal wrote:
>> >> Isn't it a good thing that there's a proxified viewer now... can
>> >> someone point him/her at the downloads for a build with the proxy
>> >> stuff?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> bye,
>> >> LC
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Am Freitag, 15. Juli 2011 schrieb a...@skyhighway.com:
>>> >>> Robert,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> thx for the info, but i think the page is telling me the answer is
>>> >>> actually, "No," because i don't have any access to the company's
>>> >>> network stuff. They look at you funny if you even ask about it.
>>> >>> i can configure a test machine any way i want to, but i can't do
>>> >>> anything at all at all to the network. How depressing :-(
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Since it is for a real work project, i think i'll show the page to
>>> >>> the IT guy, but i think this is just going to be another one of
>>> >>> those funny looks experiences, and a "I'll get back to you later"
>>> >>> that ends up being a not overly polite "helpful suggestion" from
>>> >>> my boss. But i think it will be worth it just for the opportunity
>>> >>> of getting to explain what i'm doing.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> - AK
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:17 PM, wrote:
> > Hey y'all, i had something i wanted to do at work a coupla days
> > ago
>>> >>> that i
>>> >>>
> > coulda used SL for. It installed, but i couldn't get it to
> > connect. Is there some kinda proxy setting that i need to fix
> > to get SL to start from where i work?
>>> >>> short answer is yes
>>> >>> long answer is
>>> >>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Configuring_your_firewall
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -- Robert L Martin
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ___
>>> >>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>>> >>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>>> >>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
>>> >>> privileges
>> >> ___
>> >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>> >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>> >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
privileges
>> >>
> > ___
> > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
privileges
> >
___
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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer development 2.8.1 and a few new bugs
On 18/07/11 11:32, Nicky D. wrote: > > Over the weekend, I pulled the latest sources and build a new viewer. > > In short: I have those issues as well. > > > > It looks really odd. > > - I see 'shades' of attachments other people have hidden. > > - My HUD (Magical Compass) has buttons who are half hidden, the background > > of the HUD seems to be some texture with alpha. On some logins I see the back- > > ground, then on the next login everything is fine again. (The > > background is supposed > > to be invisible). > > - Issue with colours being black, same here. Sometimes zooming in > > fixes it, sometimes > > it just worsens it. > > - Some colours are really, really odd. They show like some rainbowish > > colour gradient, or > > maybe more like oil/fuel when poured in water. Again zooming can heal > > it at times, zooming > > out worsens it again. > > > > Right now I have no real clue what causes it. I tried the alpha > > switches on and off, no help. > > Playing with the advanced gfx settings (vbo buffers) and such did not > > help either. Disabling > > shaders is another thing that did not improve it much. > > > > I think I saw that problem with the textures crop up when mesh landed > > in viewer-development, > > but than did not have the time to investigate any more. > > > > And I have a ATI card, maybe that one helps too as info? > > > > Any ideas what do try would be really appreciated. Nicky, I get the same artefacts - Objects having a rainbow 'overlay' or blackened surfaces, Shiny generating wild colours. The colours vary as the camera moves, some parts of the image may render normally. The colours are superimposed on the object textures and blend across the triangle fragments. Tweaking graphic parameters tends to produce a new set of colours. Sky, terrain, Avatars appear normal. i don't have any idea what the problem is, but i think it's really interesting that i see the same kinds of things in Blender when i'm making sculpties! Since you say something about "the big mesh merge" and that is related to the kind of things that sculpties are for, it makes me go, "Hmmm..." Good Luck! - AK --- I've tried playing with most render options - the effect shows with or without basic shaders / VBO / Lighting... Thsi is on a standalong 64bit Linux build on Gentoo, core i7 920 / nVidia GTX 580. It started with the big mesh merge and continues with the current viewer-development. I've been trying to locate the problem but delving into the graphics system is something of an adventure - any clues would be welcome. - Psi ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Blocked
Thanks for the info! Between you and Dave i may figure something out yet! But i think tunneling to my home network is not a way to make it happen. My download speed at home is never much better than 1 Mbit and usually a lot lower. Upload is never over about 150 Kbit. (i just checked: 880 up, 115 down.) See, the part of town i live in is not treated very well by anyone. AT&T oversubscribes our lines and well, more detail isn't helpful. Unlike you, the IT guy at work isn't any more helpful than he has to be, either, but the people at school are. If tunneling somewhere is a solution, maybe i can get them to help me connect to something at school. - AK --- If you want to connect through your corporate network, you should talk to the network administrator about it, they know how to do it. There are SL versions supporting SOCKS5. About installing Second Life on corporate PCs, talk to the system administrator about it in before, they want to know and there might be policies not allowing those. Myself being administrator, I would prefer if the users would use tunneling to their home network, preferably SSH or http-tunnel over SSL. Traffic would originate from the home network of the user then, not from the corporation. The most preferable solution to that issue though would be, if you bring your own notebook using a 3G UMTS/HDSPA or other wireless-modem to connect to the internet. That way the corporate network would be isolated and unaffected by your experiments. There is a reason the corporate network is proxified instead of just NAT routed. Am 15.07.2011 04:17, schrieb a...@skyhighway.com: > > Hey y'all, i had something i wanted to do at work a coupla days ago that i > > coulda used SL for. It installed, but i couldn't get it to connect. Is > > there some kinda proxy setting that i need to fix to get SL to start from > > where i work? They have a proxy server there that all external traffic > > has to go through. i know i have to tell Firefox& everything else about > > it all the time to get them to work. i looked in the XML but didn't see > > anything inspiring in the little bit of time i had for it. > > > > The thing i have to do is just a dumb test, but SL is a pretty good thing > > to do it with, and an excuse to spend maybe 10 whole minutes doing SL from > > work about once a week. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Snowglobe Startup Failure
Hey Everybody, somewhere during installing a buncha junk i need for stuff i actually earn money for, i made it so Snowglobe wouldn't start anymore. i don't think i did anything strange, i just click-installed the downloaded stuff right out of my browser's downloads window. Anyway, Snowglobe won't start. i thought maybe it had something to do with Python, but i think i'm sure now that none of that changed. Can someone please tell me where Snowglobe might be logging what it does during start-up so i can see if i can figure out what to do to fix it? All i get for clicking the Snowglobe icon on my desktop is about 2 sec of hourglass and then nothing. i don't wanna change viewers, i just want Snowglobe to start, and i especially don't wanna get the latest (or any) version 2 viewer. Even more, i don't wanna have to never use SL again! Please help? P.S. i thought of just reinstalling Snowglobe, but i have v1.5 & i can't find a place to download that version, and i either didn't save (typical) or can't find (even more typical) the installation package i used to begin with. :-( ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] [re:] Snowglobe Startup Failure
Hey Everybody (again), after that last message i sent i remembered that i had a thumbdrive with stuff on it that i didn't want to lose if something happened to my computer. It had a saved copy of the Snowglobe v1.5 i installed. But, re-installing didn't help. i've done everything i can think of to figure out where Snowglobe could be writing useful stuff about why it won't start, but no luck. Thanks mucho if you can help me. - AK ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] [re:] Snowglobe Startup Failure
Boroondas, thanks for the response! i figured out a way to get SL going again by backing up to Snowglobe 1.4 Nicky Perian (Thanks Nicky!) helped me some last weekend. i found this sorta official stuff: "Sysinternals Suite" http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb842062 on a Microsoft website that you probably already know about. It's a whole bunch of tools for Windows originally developed by an old school DOS pro back in the 90s, but updated for modern Windows. The tools are really great! i don't understand even 0.05% of what they have to say, but they make for lots of cool looking information, that's for sure! Anyway, the procmon showed me a Snowglobe DLL was having a buffer overflow. i know that isn't good, and since i'd already managed to find my Snowglobe 1.5 installation software and reinstall Snowglobe, i figured something must be wrong with Windows, so i tried Snowglobe 1.4. That worked. i was thinking about reinstalling Windows, but that's a lot of work, i have a freaky environment because of the VM i have to use, and if i screw it up i don't get any help fixing it. That would make my school & side job really hard, so i'm happy to live with Snowglobe 1.4 Maybe i'll try one of the newer viewers that has the v1 "look 'n feel," but not right now. i think i really wanna see what mesh is all about, but i think i need to have like a whole weekend or something just to get a new viewer going, so i'll wait. What i really, really wanna do is do a viewer build myself, but the build instructions keep scaring me, and i don't think my build environment is right like it is now, anyway. That's a whole nother weekend (or two...). Thanks Again! Y'all are Great!! i hope if anyone looks at the Sysinternals tools that they're really useful! They sure look like they oughta be! - AK -- On 08/07/2011 11:47 PM, a...@skyhighway.com wrote: > somewhere during installing a buncha junk i need for stuff i actually earn > money for, i made it so Snowglobe wouldn't start anymore. Ew. > [...] i thought maybe it had something to do > with Python, but i think i'm sure now that none of that changed. We only use python at build time, not at runtime. (Otherwise you'd see it in the system requirements.) > Can someone please tell me where Snowglobe might be logging what it does > during start-up so i can see if i can figure out what to do to fix it? The location depends on your operating system, but is documented on the wiki on 'Finding Log Files' and 'Debug Help > Where do I find my SecondLife.log file?'. (I don't know why we have that same info twice.) > [...] i don't wanna change viewers, i just want > Snowglobe to start, and i especially don't wanna get the latest (or any) > version 2 viewer. Even more, i don't wanna have to never use SL again! Please do consider using a more recent viewer. Snowglobe hasn't gotten security updates for a long time. (Still better than SL Viewer 1.23, though.) There are third party viewers that preserved the look and feel of Snowglobe while keeping up-to-date with relation to the Second Life protocols and security concerns. > [...] i thought of just reinstalling Snowglobe, but i have v1.5 & i can't > find a place to download that version, and i either didn't save (typical) > or can't find (even more typical) the installation package i used to begin > with. :-( I don't think Snowglobe 1.5 has ever been released: There were probably only ever development snapshots with that version number. Links can be found in the history of the 'Snowglobe' wiki page. They've been removed from the current page to avoid new Residents stumbling across them and using Snowglobe without knowing that it is outdated software. On 08/08/2011 12:23 AM, a...@skyhighway.com wrote: > [...] re-installing didn't help. i've done everything i can think of to figure > out where Snowglobe could be writing useful stuff about why it won't > start, but no luck. Your idea to look at the logs is good, so do that before you do anything else. Other things that you might want to try are re-installing graphics drivers or re-installing/repair-installing the operating system. (Backup your data before doing the latter!) Cheers, Boroondas ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] JIRA Search
LOL!! Better make that 5L$, though, huh? Since L$ seem to wobble around 250L$/US$, 5L$ = 2 US cents! Like, you can get your two cents in for two cents!! Hahahahaha P.S.s.s.t.: Since L$ only come in 10-paks, give 'em "two4one" purchase Jiras! With a little marketing, Jira could pay for itself!! ROTFL!!! Sorry about the unprofessional interruption. You can return to your regularly scheduled geeking now. - Just charge 10L$ for creating a new issue, but not for comments. That would make people look before making a duplicate. It's amazing what SL people will do for a small financial incentive > 1. Re: [JIRA] Proposal - Default Search settings on >jira.secondlife.com >> I think that this would lead to a better use of JIRA for >> SL users willing to give feedback. More specifically, >> the number of duplicate issues may be reduced because >> the search for existing issues would be more efficient. >> > > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Review Request: STORM-58 Allow objects to have 99.99% max hollow for default hollow shape.
Jamey (or anyone else that would like to answer), can you please explain "the Megaprims debacle"? i know it's a little off-topic, but i've always wondered why Megaprims have such a bad rep. i can see how they could be abused, but i don't see how the abuse could be anything more than a minor annoyance. Thx! And pls forgive my asking if ppl would really not like to have questions like this here. - AK Lance Corrimal wrote: > under certain conditions the hollow value"snaps back" to 95.0: > * stretching a hollowed prim > * entering a"wrong number" manually, e.g. 99.999 I believe all prim size/parameter restraints are clamped on the server, due to the Megaprims debacle. I think there was some testing of hollows greater than 95%, and some issues were run into with the physics engine. As the physics engine has changed twice, at least, since then I think, it may be possible to increase it to 99%. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] FUI project just out - no more sidebar
Dude! For serious? That's just the kind of thing that could inspire me to fix my computer so i can try the v3 viewer and start spending some quality time in SL doing something other than just meditating at the Buddha Center! i mean, the meditating is good & all that, & it's not like it doesn't make me a better person, avi, etc. But it would be super terrific to actually have some different fun doing other things, too! Thx!! - AK The new FUI project just got merged in to viewer-development. No more sidebar! Attached you can see there are buttons on the bottom and left. There's also a column you can move them to on the right which starts out unpopulated. For each of the 3 zones you can have icons or icons+labels and move buttons around or eliminate ones you don't want. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] An Idea
Hey Everybody, i had an idea. My dad used to tell me that when i had one of those i should treat it kindly, 'cause it was in a strange place. "Ha-ha," huh? Anyways, what if there was a "Random TP" button or keypress or whatever? i mean, just to make things interesting?* i don't know what kind of controls or whatever might make it more (or less) practical, but i think it would be a pretty cool thing. i know i'd try it lots. Well, as soon as i get my computer fixed, anyway. Y'all rock! - AK * Some things i can think of might be: 1) to a place with more (less) than X avis there, 2) from the list of Linden Prize winners, 3) with maturity rating (not) Y, 4) dance clubs or concerts, 5) language(s) being spoken Z, ...and like that. Maybe people could sign up to be on a list of destinations, or maybe some of it could just be parsed out of info we could otherwise collect ourselves if we wanted to spend a lot of time doing it. Or maybe it could just be made out of all the places that aren't trying to keep people out? ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] An Idea
Y'all, i hadn't thought about how much of SL is someplace that would be pretty boring to tp to. i don't know what tp'ing within range of a security orb would be like, but i'll trust you if you say it it wouldn't be fun. It doesn't sound like fun, anyway. i think the things that made me think the most were the way i've looked for things to do sometimes by zooming around on the map & picking someplace with lots of avis for a place to go. About half the time that's not very exciting, but the other half has made SL worth the time! i just found out about Zindra a couple of days ago. Someone on the NCI chat told me about it. You're right. i *definitely* wouldn't want to tp there. In fact, if there was some setting i could adjust in my viewer to make sure i never went there by trick or by accident, i would use the setting *for sure*! i think i can deal with random kinda "adult content" places sort of like, "generally," but if Zindra is what i was told it was, i'd even be happier if it showed up on my map as a black hole with that red circle bar on it. The other thing about random tp'ing is the lists of places that the search gives up. It seems like there should be some easy way to keep all that stuff indexed and sorted so that a random tp could access it in several different ways. The point is, tp'ing to a place i've been before or that got randomly selected from the 3 or 4 thousand LMs i have would be a little interesting, but it would be primo if the random loc was picked from places i've never been, or at least officially "really cool" sites. i've never done the Google, "I'm feeling lucky" thing, but i think i get the idea. It's like, yeah, like that, only like, *interesting*, you know? Not just some webpage. There's billions of those and if the random coords in SL are boring and maybe dangerous, picking a random page off the Internet sounds like some wierd kind of Russian Roulette with 1 real bullet in the gun, 1 that squirts lemonade, and 4 filled with sleeping gas. i dunno. If somebody came up with a "Random TP" button, i'm sure i'd press it several times every time i went in-world, even if most of the tps were boring, gave me some hazard i had to avoid immediately, or had me tp'ing out like it couldn't happen fast enough and wishing i'd thought of wearing a biohazard space suit before i pushed the button. My curiosity has got me in trouble way more times than i like to think about! Maybe it's crazy to want to amp it out in SL, but i'll bet i'm way not the only one who'd be thumpin' that button almost by reflex. Thx, ppl!! - AK Yeah, I had the same thoughts on the TP history, that property would make it a pretty good proposal. Aren't TPs already tracked via local chat log? If so, then the puzzle pieces are available to put a prototype. - Nexii Malthus On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 7:38 AM, Lance Corrimal wrote: Am Sonntag 23 Oktober 2011 schrieb a...@skyhighway.com: > Hey Everybody, > > i had an idea. My dad used to tell me that when i had one of those > i should treat it kindly, 'cause it was in a strange place. > "Ha-ha," huh? > > Anyways, what if there was a "Random TP" button or keypress or > whatever? i mean, just to make things interesting?* i don't know > what kind of controls or whatever might make it more (or less) > practical, but i think it would be a pretty cool thing. i know > i'd try it lots. Well, as soon as i get my computer fixed, > anyway. Hum... Kinda like the "I'm feeling lucky!" button on google? Not a good idea in SL in my opinion. A random Tp to some random grid coords will take you: - underwater - to someone's private parcel - on top of someone's banline - in range of someone's security orb - on some abandoned land - on some unused mainland most of the time. not to mention the chance to get a "You have no access to that teleport destionation" without even knowing what destinaion it was would be pretty frustrating. And then there's zindra. do you really want to randomly land in zindra? now, "take me to a random showcase destination with the same maturity rating as the parcel i'm on" would be kinda cool. "take me to a random showcase destination with the same rating, that is not yet in my tp history" would be cooler. bye, LC ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com
Re: [opensource-dev] An Idea
Hey Y'all, thx for the suggestion, but that's what i already do, except i try to make it a little better chances of finding someplace interesting by picking places i see lots of avis or whatever. Like Lance & Nexii pointed out, most coords are kinda boring to tp to. They can be interesting if you tp there & then look around lots of times, but some of that's 'cause we're already not tp'ing into water or stuff like that. Tho, y'know, i've found some nice places underwater, too, so there's that. After thinking about it, my idea is more like having a random tp button that "thinks" a little bit for you so the chances you'll find an interesting place way lots better, and maybe filtered on your mood or whatever. Like, having all that info in the search sorted out so you can choose "rides" or, "shopping", or "concert" or something like that and get a random selection better than you would do yourself. Or maybe use the map knowledge the system has that would take us forever to collect so if we wanna go to a random place with more than 12 avis, or a history of lots of visits, it's way easier and lots more likely to be fun instead of boring. i mean, it would be easy, i think, to hook up a random selection of say, Linden Prize winners, but maybe there'd even be a point to it for somebody who's all into money (ick) to make it so ppl who want random visitors can pay to be on a list for ppl who are into that kind of thing. Have fun!! - AK - On 25/10/2011 12:54 AM, Garmin Kawaguichi wrote: >> - Original Message - >> From: Dahlia Trimble >> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 4:08 AM >> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] An Idea >> 1) open map >> 2) zoom out all the way >> 3) double click somewhere >> works for me > :))) For me too!!! That's how I do it. Semi-random 'drunkard-walk' teleports are a favourite pastime of mine. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Why Develop?
Hey Everybody! pls forgive me if this sounds kinda off-topic. i don't think it is, really, but you have to be a little patient. Anyway, before you read the hopefully un-boring things i have to say, pls look at this: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/09/us-japan-digital-diva-idUSBRE8280DO20120309?feedType=RSS&feedName=oddlyEnoughNews This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-8POAZLIes And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBZOlipfjkQ (In that order - and don't forget to turn on subtitles in your player for the YouTube videos, unless you do Japanese, of course.) i've kinda given up on hanging out with ppl in SL because i don't really fit in. i still do SL, i just don't hang out with ppl. (Pls resist the urge to turn me off here, to make my point, i gotta explain where it comes from 1st.) One big diff is that i'm not a gamer. Actually, i *hate* gaming. To me, gaming is a kind of heroin, and the ppl who do it are kinda like junkies, no offense, pls, if you think i'm pointing at you. i couldn't say that if i didn't know what it's like. Being a junkie, i mean. Been there, done that, moved on. So, i'm not criticizing gamers, just explaining that i understand the trip in ways gamers maybe don't realize. The diff between gaming & what ppl like me get outta SL is that gaming misses a lot of the idea in enhanced reality. Enhanced reality is more than Hatsune Miko, it's also those robots cruisin around on Mars and stuff like that. SL has potential to be that, & more. Treating it like a game & developing it like just for gamers (& the phony romance/sex creeps - don't even get me started!) is practically a crime against humanity for being given a priceless gateway to making the most xtreme imagination real & then just polishing the gates' hinges or something instead of using it to go somewhere. (BTW, don't think i'm trying to make an idea like being Hatsune Miko in SL a goal. She's neat & all, but there's way more to it than that. She's just really good at getting attention. Serious. Remember what they said in the vids about her record sales? And after you remember that, think about how many millions - hundreds of millions - of ppl in the world would be into SL if it were more than a game, & oh yeah, not tryin to make a big deal out of "property rights" & IP & all that *junk*. What i'm on about is a step beyond.) One solid example - That's one reason why i don't understand why, after the several ppl i've seen here trying to get live action controls to move our avis, we still have the crude controls SL started with and what has often seemed like movement away from immersion instead of obsession on expanding it. i know there's a big diff between the kind of animation that makes Miko "real" & what's possible for great gobs of ppl not paying several Gs a month to access shared (not super) computers on the Internet. But there's still a lot that can be done. Some really good things have been happening in SL, & i think some of the devs here are totally as good as the PhDs at work where they basically let me be an admin. i'm just trying to get ppl to think about the kinda attitude that makes us able be the best selves our minds can imagine and maybe do something with it that changes more world than just SL, instead of just playing around sorta like inventing the Starship Enterprise just for the Holodeck & a cool ride to a concert or something. That's it! Sorry (again, like always) for the non-technical content. Like my boss & my fave teachers say, sometimes you have to get up to 40,000 feet to get a view of the world that's useful for you on the ground, crawling over big rocks to get where you're going. You're all way better at all of that than me. i just wanna help if i can. - AK ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] MOSES & Stuff
Hi! When i read the dev mail about MOSES & MIAB & stuff, i couldn't help but ask. What does SL (or i guess, LL) have to do with the military? Is there any kind of real connection or something? Are some of the SL devs military people? Thx! - AK --- http://sitearm.wordpress.com/2012/10/19/moses-office-hours-screenshot-19-oct-2012/ October 19, 2012 sitearm MOSES Office Hours Screenshot 19-Oct-2012 013-D Web is the set of internet technologies that put user browsers in an online, interactive 3D environment. MOSES (Military Open Simulator Enterprise Strategy) is a privately-hosted, OpenSim, online virtual environment with stringent security from hackers. MIAB (MOSES In A Box) is a portable, publically-licensed version of the experimental Project MOSES virtual environment which can be downloaded and installed on standalone individual or enterprise servers. STTC (United States Army Simulation and Training Technology Center) provides state-of-the-art applied research to develop simulation technologies. Hot topics at todays Office Hours meeting were the Approved Participation Agreement and Recent Performance Adjustments to the MOSES Firewall. After a lengthy discussion on the formalized status of MOSES and MIAB, participants were invited to conduct a free-for-all, spontaneous capacity performance test by running and jumping and flying around all at once while still talking in chat. It was marvelous! Selected Quotes The project has reached a level of maturity such that it is no longer considered "proof of concept" and the STTC has decided to formalize the participation agreements between the MOSES project and its users. Douglas Maxwell, MSME Science and Technology Manager Virtual World Strategic Applications U.S. Army Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC) Web: http://brokentablet.arl.army.mil/ Email: arl.sttc.open.simula...@us.army.mil See also: http://sitearm.wordpress.com/category/moses/ Posted in 3D Web, MOSES, News. Leave a Comment » ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] MOSES & Stuff
So, it's like LL made something that the military was interested in buying, and now maybe they're interested in buying it again? Like that? Actually, what you say sounds like LL sells the whole SL package, server & everything as a product or something. Must be expensive! Am i getting it right? Thx! - AK --- As far as I can see, It's the replacement for the SL Enterprise project, an older project by Linden Lab to create a Second Life "behind the firewall". Basically internal grids for companies. I know the US Army had interests for this training/meeting wise and looking into it, put money in it. http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2012/03/second-life-enterprise-was-a-costly-mistake/ http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2010/08/second-life-discontinues-enterprise-platform/ http://venturebeat.com/2009/11/03/linden-lab-launches-enterprise-version-of-second-life-virtual-world/ It's not really LL related I think. On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:37 PM, wrote: Hi! When i read the dev mail about MOSES & MIAB & stuff, i couldn't help but ask. What does SL (or i guess, LL) have to do with the military? Is there any kind of real connection or something? Are some of the SL devs military people? Thx! - AK --- http://sitearm.wordpress.com/2012/10/19/moses-office-hours-screenshot-19-oct-2012/ October 19, 2012 sitearm MOSES Office Hours Screenshot 19-Oct-2012 013-D Web is the set of internet technologies that put user browsers in an online, interactive 3D environment. MOSES (Military Open Simulator Enterprise Strategy) is a privately-hosted, OpenSim, online virtual environment with stringent security from hackers. MIAB (MOSES In A Box) is a portable, publically-licensed version of the experimental Project MOSES virtual environment which can be downloaded and installed on standalone individual or enterprise servers. STTC (United States Army Simulation and Training Technology Center) provides state-of-the-art applied research to develop simulation technologies. Hot topics at todays Office Hours meeting were the Approved Participation Agreement and Recent Performance Adjustments to the MOSES Firewall. After a lengthy discussion on the formalized status of MOSES and MIAB, participants were invited to conduct a free-for-all, spontaneous capacity performance test by running and jumping and flying around all at once while still talking in chat. It was marvelous! Selected Quotes The project has reached a level of maturity such that it is no longer considered "proof of concept" and the STTC has decided to formalize the participation agreements between the MOSES project and its users. Douglas Maxwell, MSME Science and Technology Manager Virtual World Strategic Applications U.S. Army Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC) Web: http://brokentablet.arl.army.mil/ Email: arl.sttc.open.simula...@us.army.mil See also: http://sitearm.wordpress.com/category/moses/ Posted in 3D Web, MOSES, News. Leave a Comment » ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -- Have a safe and productive day. Dax Hyena/J. Putseys Professional Belgian. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] new viewer
hey guys! i was just wondering if somebody here could tell me what will happen for real if i don't upgrade my viewer? i'm still using snowglobe 1.5. i won't bore you with the long, teary story of why. It's just upgrading my viewer for a while more isn't going to happen. Like, not even possible. "a while" means like, maybe months. So, if i stay chill about what i do and don't ask for much, will i still be able to go in SL and not mess up my avi or inventory or anything like that? i've got a premium membership in case that matters. Thx so much for telling me anything you can! Sorry to spam the list with a dumb, probably obnoxious question, ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] new viewer
Thanks for the info, guys! if it's really just grey blobs and not danger to my inventory or shape or whatever, then i can live with it as long as i need to. everything was like that for the longest time when my computer was broken, anyway. Have a Happy SL! ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] TPVP Discussion
i've been watching this TPVP discussion go round 'n round since it got started and just biting my tongue 'cause i don't "have a dog in the race," as they say. That doesn't mean i haven't had an opinion i've wanted to share, though. So, if you don't mind, i'd like to make a respectful submission, please? Despite some awfully emotional claims to the contrary, i don't think LL has any intention of hunting developers down and sucking the marrow from their bones! Really, there's little point unless somebody deliberately causes problems, which i think is what most of us agree is the intent? Well, that and the need for LL to deal with pressure from people who can legally claim they've been ripped off or whatever and that LL has some responsibility to "pay for it." If somebody makes a viewer (or any other product) with the idea of exploiting SL, harming the residents, and reducing the fun and utility of the site for others, then they deserve whatever grief they get for it! Do we disagree on that point? Surely not? i think that no reasonable person would want to excuse somebody who deliberately developed malignant software and gave it to others to use even if they never used it that way themselves (or at all), or even if they never advertised its evil capabilities, relying instead on malevolent users to discover them. i mean, proving anything in some of those cases would really be a challenge, but that's not the point. The point is, SL is like, big and juicy enough that it's already a target. Because i *like* SL and want it to succeed, i even hope that it gets even bigger, juicier, and that a bunch of you share my enthusiasm! Maybe the issue is just how far into the trade off between security and freedom we want to get, especially realizing that both are really il Once i had a famous lawyer who had argued several cases before the US Supreme Court explain to me that i needed to be aware that the state of law in the United States - and most other places - was written so that those promoting and enforcing it could theoretically arrest anyone, anytime for *something*, and even make it stick - *provided their interest and resources exceeded the abilities of the accused and their supporters to complain about it.* Like, obviously, right? LL is invoking the law. i think that's kinda sad, but i can't say that it's not inevitable. It's the kind of world we've allowed to develop. We have to live with that in so many ways! My background includes a long time spent working for everyone's favorite company, SCO. It was a great place at first! Really, i admit the reason why i was so attracted to it in the beginning was 'cause the company hottub was a big part of SCO's culture - actually, right in the middle of the building where all the engineers worked! There was also all the free beer. Many Mondays there'd be the remains of the weekend's keg in some breakroom for breakfast chasers or whatever. As far as i was concerned, any place that was gonna provide a bubbling tub full of people so comfortable with each other they could be naked together and complimentary alcohol as part of the compensation package was my kind of place! i do hope you understand? FYI, there really was once a memo from SCO's CEO asking everyone to please wear some kind of clothing in the work areas of the building during business hours. It was due to the "surprise" expressed by a sortie of suits from IBM (how ironic is that?) one day to see just exactly what it was they were being asked to invest in. As we know, mismanagement by the investors that eventually bought SCO pulled it in other directions. As tragic as the mismanagement was, and despite what some may say, i talked in person like to enough of the people who reviewed the relevant code - in some cases its authors, people i knew personally, friends, to know that SCO really was ripped off by people whose concerns were not so much promoting open source as the personal compensation packages they were intent on cultivating by (for eample) leveraging free labor in the open source community. There, i said it. i don't know any of the people reading this message at all, really. i think i like some of you - i know i like LL (a lot) and that i'm an avid supporter of its employees, even though i don't know them, either. As far as i'm concerned, LL's people are developing an amazing tool with incredible potential! Well, we all are in our own ways. i'm just willing to go a little farther and support the idea that the Lindens are well-intentioned, intelligent, and deserve the benefit of a doubt. Unlike SCO & the argument it got into with IBM, and then Novell, i don't think the possibility of a $6 billion argument exists here. i'm not sure what everyone is afraid of? Where are the deep pockets that are going to try and throw someone in jail, or suck them so dry they end up on a street corner with a "Please Help" sign? And what are the chances that kind of thing would happen, anyway
[opensource-dev] Two Worlds
Hey Y'all, maybe i had an idea... There's been a lotta "comment" on the new viewer 2.0 look 'n feel stuff. Some ppl love it! Others hate it! Whatever it is, i think it's been a sorta polarizing issue, huh? One thing, the official claim is that it tests well with noobs. Some say that's 'cause they don't know any better or that it's more like what they're used to with whatever else they do on the Internet or just plain whatever. Maybe it's just that yet another aspect of VW technology has been revealed that hadn't been noticed or anticipated so much before? What if there were two modes to the viewer? That's been suggested already, i know. What i don't think has been suggested is putting it in the context of two (maybe more) different kinds of users, and i don't mean something dumb like noobs and oldbies! i think maybe it's the diff between ppl who are more rp focused and ppl who are more business or professional focused? Y'know, some ppl don't want a whole virtual world so much as a tool to get some project done, or for some special purpose where a whole VW is a distraction but the background & context the capability provides is still important? Like, i'll be straight up and say that for me, i like a lot about viewer 2.0! But, i so totally *hate* that sidebar bashing into me like someone with a sharp elbow on the bus, or the disappeared floaters and windows i can't see through anymore! The annoying things make it hard to focus on the things i like lots of times. For me, it would be super cool if the viewer had a "mode switch"! A selection i could make to go back and forth from "RP Mode" or "VW Mode" with immersion optimised to "Professional Mode" or "Utility Mode" where the VW was more like just another screen or window that had something interesting going on in it? A third mode might even be something sorta halfway in between & made really simple with lots of help for noobs so the learning curve wasn't so steep, perilous, or confusing. :-P For the Big Picture SL presentation i can see something like all the SL windows, including all the chat, inventory, group, etc - everything (even HUDs?), being just windows for the OS with the VW its own window that maybe is maximized and maybe isn't. In maximized mode the VW window could have the ability to "draw in" or spawn inside without "leaving" the VW any or all of the windows for chat, inventory, etc in their floaty, sometimes transparent mode like the Terminator's heads up display that so many like so well! Y'know, the best of all worlds? It's just an idea. i haven't compiled & mod'ed the viewers yet, so i don't know how much work it would be to do all that. Maybe an unrealistically, impossible too much. Anyway, have a great day!! Oh, BTW, if you feel like answering this msg or making a comment or whatever, pls, pretty pls don't drag the TPVP argument into it? 'K? i mean, yeah, it's important and all, but this isn't that conversation? ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Two Worlds
Do you mean something like an interface that allows us to do this: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-375 Yes!! That's part of it, anyway. The main point i was trying to make is that i see there as being (at least) two very different types of user communities for SL. One community is like the RP (Role Play) one that wants - needs - as much immersion as possible! i think that all the things that wouldn't be seen if it was real eyes looking at a real world gotta be able to be made as inconspicuous as possible - without losing utility. Floaters and partially transparent windows and all the stuff that goes into the "Terminator style" heads up display are crucial! Another community is like the Professional Services one that only needs SL for a tool to get some task done. "Immersion" is a distraction. i think they just need a virtual conference setting, or school or whatever that can leverage the VW (Virtual World) concept to communicate more effectively. Or maybe just because it's more fun that way! Whatever, having the VW be just another desk top operation is to me more functional than immersing in the VW. The paradigm should even work better for content creators at times, too, since non-SL tools like Blender, Photoshop, etc., can be run on the same screen with SL easier. Right? A third community might be noobs, who could often benefit quite a bit from something that was really close to immersion without losing their familiar desktop feel, and who might be best served with a lot of simplicity and advice until they figure things out. i think the "normal" camera perspective compared to mouseview is one illustration on one level of the principle. Backing further away to the viewer 2.0 way is another step, then something like the system at the URL you gave is another step even further back. Kinda like a VW zoom function that works on "reality level." My thought is that it would be *really great* if at least a couple of the possible VW levels - or SL modes - were as easy to switch between as mouselook and normal camera view. i mean, you could get all sophisticated about it and have this or that feature of the "zoom" be selectable by itself, like something easy to turn screen squishing and partial transparency on and off for the sidebar in viewer 2.0 without a relog. But i think the main thing ought to be just a recognition of the (at least) two different user communities and the need to support both directions without ripping the communities apart, or making one suffer for the other. Thx for the URL ref! a...@skyhighway.com wrote: > For the Big Picture SL presentation i can see something like all the SL > windows, including all the chat, inventory, group, etc - everything (even > HUDs?), being just windows for the OS with the VW its own window that > maybe is maximized and maybe isn't. In maximized mode the VW window could > have the ability to "draw in" or spawn inside without "leaving" the VW any > or all of the windows for chat, inventory, etc in their floaty, sometimes > transparent mode like the Terminator's heads up display that so many like > so well! Y'know, the best of all worlds? > Do you mean something like an interface that allows us to do this: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-375 ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] IRC bridge for brown-bag, Tuesday 4/13 noon PDT
i must have lost the SLURL for the brownbag that starts at noon. i may be able to attend the meeting, if only to listen. Could someone pls let me know what the SLURL is? THX!! -AK ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] V2.X & V1.X support on the same machine
i like what Dzon has to say more every time she has something new to contribute. Just sayin'. And to Fractured Crystal re: "Drugs are bad." In SL the usual psychoactive options (even alcohol) are obviously not an option. But, if you look at it like that SL is sorta like a drug. Is it bad? It is an altered state, and that's like the problem i have with Viewer 2 - it lessens the "immersion" that's important to me in SL. i know i'm all wierd & stuff, but SL isn't a "game" for me. It's an altered state of reality. It's taught me a lot about myself i never guessed at b4 and in some ways is better than acid or whatever - and trust me, that's something i *do* know about. Sorry for what lots will call off-topic input, but i think the pysche implications of what we're doing with SL are as important as the pure CS tech stuff, and deserve to be discussed in the same sort of context. Treating SL like nothing more than a "game" is trashing a lot of potential for the sake of a cheap thrill. So American, y'know? Once again, just sayin'. bye, AK Dzonatas Sol wrote: > > They've had an adult grid that is suppose to be fast, easy,... and fun. > > > > They've had an teen grid that is suppose to be ... easy... fast... clean? > > > > Sincerely, > > > > ___ Life > > I believe I found a solution. The svn code should be for only "kids"... even people who decide to make their avatars like "kids"... so a split code base "right there" where the more known "adult" possibility can be found in the hg repository. I think that provides several options to get LL out of its corner. We know there is confusion between "shared" code base and "split" code base... yet we understand this. It's the same feel... they need to earn it to grow up... but its got to be their choice to know what they lost. Some have already taken that choice... .. they just haven't quite... you know. -- "." [Fixt.] ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Display Name & Viewer 1.x vs. Viewer 2.x
Display Name: i don't want my name to *ever* appear in a login screen or anywhere else as something like "aklo.modan" If there's a reason to have that kind of construct as a name used by scripts or whatever, that's fine so long as it's kept "under the covers." But no simple user should ever see it. Same thing goes for "Resident". It's an awful last (or any other) name to *force* on people and shouldn't be something users have to *ever* look at even though it may be necessary or reasonable or whatever for development, administration & all that. If someone picks it, that's their deal, but there's other ways to solve development problems that don't have to be put in the faces of people who aren't doing dev or admin kinds of things. Appearances can be whatever and some people change them faster than they go through toilet paper. Display Names will make identity even less certain, but why not? i gotta say, though, if the name you see over an avi's head doesn't mean anything to someone just looking at a screen, then why not make any display of it at all an option? What i mean is, just have an option to turn off the entire ID bubble since it won't be very meaningful anyway. Basically, i think there's a really big diff between people liking the idea of being able to pick their entire name (even if it's all small letters or special characters or ...) and forcing them into a "Resident clan" bucket, garbaging up their favorite name with a bunch of numbers so it's unique, or making them look at some ugly string that's been computer friendlied for them. Viewer 1.x vs. Viewer 2.x: i tried really hard to not only use, but to actually *like* Viewer 2. i failed. i used it at least some every time i did SL for over 3 months and got to where i could do almost everything i do with Viewer 1.23 Somethings were easier, some were harder. i wrote out a long list of stuff that i'm not going to bother people with about what i did and didn't like. Most of it's been covered recently on this list, anyway. Basically, the improvements in what it can do are great, but the UI is *awful*. The most disappointing thing to me is the impact on immersion. i'm not going to bother people with my weird ideas about the potential for SL to expand reality for us, avatar compared to vihaya, and all the other esoteric stuff that goes through my mind. i think it's enough to say that i want more out of my SL experience than a browser class "game." i don't play games. The last straw for me was the second time a Viewer 2 auto-update disabled the viewer so it wouldn't even start. i gave up testing it after that. Please note that it was the *second* time. The original Viewer 2 installation i did during the beta had already died over the same type of problem and been replaced by a completely fresh installation of the current Viewer 2 about 2 months ago. Extra: i like the UI to be sort of a "Terminator" style HUD. That is, all virtual world with all the controls & chat stuff in windows or widgets that maybe stay on screen, but fade in and out from some variable degree of transparency as requested or whatever. And highly configurable, like being able to be put anywhere on the screen, resized, recolored, and so on. Just sayin'. i think i've been sorta asked for my opinion? The draw distance setting is a real problem. There are some sims (like the one where i live) where tp with it set much over 150 will cause a crash almost every time. It would be super cool if there were an onscreen widget like the movement & camera controls so it could be changed more easily. It makes sense several ways. And, if tp with high draw distance values is a problem for lots of people, then why not have it effectively detuned to 0 or whatever by tp just before the actual tp is executed, and then put back before tp completely exits? Am i the only one who has the problem? i see that some avis with some viewers & HUDs have awesome prescience. Like, super radar & stuff like that. Why can't all those tools be available as UI options in the standard viewers? i'm pitying the noob and casual user here. Or for that matter, just trying to even things out so we all have a chance to have a good time in SL. Except the griefers. They suck. Like Lance says, bye. - AK ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Draw Distance
There was some talk lately about draw distance. i mentioned that from my place if i have my draw distance turned up over about 150 i can almost count on crashing when i tp. i'm really sorry i can't describe the problem any better than that. If someone wants to tell me how i could understand it better, i'd love to listen? Anyway, i mentioned in mail to this list that it would be really cool if there were an onscreen widget like the movement & camera controls that made draw distance a lot easier to change. Please forgive me for not having already figured out how to do that myself. Just sayin' tho, it would be really nice if, like for instance, Snowglobe had either a mouse gesture, keyboard short cut, or onscreen widget (all three?) for rapidly, easily changing draw distance, i think it's a function that lots of people would use heavily. i know there's performance concerns, but if, for instance, the onscreen widget included a simple performance bar indicator that went down as the draw distance was turned up, that would communicate pretty well to all the people who didn't know better for whatever reason. The tp crash i get is just one more reason to make the setting easy to deal with. Besides, to me it seems like such a natural part of camera controls that i don't know why it's not there already? If it was me adding the feature i'd put it in the camera controls widget. i'd been using SL for several months before i even realized that draw distance was configurable. Thanks for listening! ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Draw Distance
!! YES !! If all i had to do was mouse up over the camera widget and roll the scroll button i would be *soo* happy! Serious. i mean, Henri's Cool VL innovation is great! And i think that even if it were a mouse wheel scrollable widget it should still have some kinda additional text box to it where numbers can be typed in. But to be able to look around like that would be MEGA-AWESOME!! (Just like opening your eyes *really* wide...!!) - AK I probably use the draw-distance slider more often than any other UI widget. I'd probably map it to my mouse's scroll-wheel, if I could. On 22/08/2010 10:31 AM, Suz Dollar wrote: > > This is one concept that I have wanted for at least four years in SL. I > > change draw distance multiple times a day depending on where I"m > > visiting. Many of my own estate regions I can use a full powered 512 > > draw distance. Going to my public sandbox, however, requires an instant > > drop to 128 or lower. Visiting my old 'hometown' of Caledon, mandates > > the same. And I have to be honest, the places I can still use 512 draw > > distance with viewer 2.x has dropped dramatically. I now usually can't > > use higher than 256 yet have been assured since the first beta release > > that there should be no performance difference between 1.23 and 2.x with > > regard to graphics. An easily accessible way to change draw distance > > would be awesome. I'm also frustrated that its so much harder with the > > slider to hit the magic numbers: 64, 96, 128, 256 you get the idea. > > But if the slider were at least out on the main UI somewhere, my own > > preference being up in the navigation area, but anywhere directly > > accessible, would be AWESOME. > > > > Char > > > > > > a...@skyhighway.com wrote: >> >> There was some talk lately about draw distance. i mentioned that from my >> >> place if i have my draw distance turned up over about 150 i can almost >> >> count on crashing when i tp. i'm really sorry i can't describe the >> >> problem any better than that. If someone wants to tell me how i could >> >> understand it better, i'd love to listen? >> >> >> >> Anyway, i mentioned in mail to this list that it would be really cool if >> >> there were an onscreen widget like the movement& camera controls that >> >> made draw distance a lot easier to change. Please forgive me for not >> >> having already figured out how to do that myself. Just sayin' tho, it >> >> would be really nice if, like for instance, Snowglobe had either a mouse >> >> gesture, keyboard short cut, or onscreen widget (all three?) for rapidly, >> >> easily changing draw distance, i think it's a function that lots of >> >> people would use heavily. i know there's performance concerns, but if, >> >> for instance, the onscreen widget included a simple performance bar >> >> indicator that went down as the draw distance was turned up, that would >> >> communicate pretty well to all the people who didn't know better for >> >> whatever reason. >> >> >> >> The tp crash i get is just one more reason to make the setting easy to >> >> deal with. Besides, to me it seems like such a natural part of camera >> >> controls that i don't know why it's not there already? If it was me >> >> adding the feature i'd put it in the camera controls widget. i'd been >> >> using SL for several months before i even realized that draw distance was >> >> configurable. >> >> >> >> Thanks for listening! >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >> >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges >> >> >> >> > > ___ > > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > > -- Tateru Nino http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/ ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] (no subject)
Hey! Um, i've been meaning to ask... Why don't i ever get the login screen pics with Snowglobe? i just installed the latest release (1.5.0 3625) from the website and still all i ever get are little arrow icons in the middle of a black screen. It's not all that important, i know, but i've been missing them... Is something broken, or is it me? Thx!! - AK ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Login Pic
So, is it fixable? Is there some way to change the Snowglobe login channel? Or can the server be configured to respond to the channel Snowglobe already has? Or is this just something Snowglobe users should not care about? For reals, it's not important, but i miss it, & the pics are a nice touch. Thx!! - AK On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 5:26 AM, wrote: > > Hey! Um, i've been meaning to ask... Why don't i ever get the login > > screen pics with Snowglobe? i just installed the latest release (1.5.0 > > 3625) from the website and still all i ever get are little arrow icons in > > the middle of a black screen. It's not all that important, i know, but > > i've been missing them... Is something broken, or is it me? The login pictures are controlled by the login channel and grid that is passed when requesting the background page. Snowglobe passes its own login channel different to the main viewer which results in no pictures. But the choice to send pictures or not, is server dependent. Robin ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Draw Distance
i really like Erik's comments! He gives lots of good examples. The best draw distance isn't always a function of the best performance. Sometimes it may not even make sense to someone who's not there at the time. i think one of the important ideas in Erik's mail and some of the earlier messages is that draw distance is a candidate for a (maybe optional) onscreen widget that makes it as easy to adjust as the camera controls. All the ideas for chat line access and defaults management of draw distance and other settings are really awesome, too! My opinion says they should be implemented in parallel with something super simple and obvious to use for draw distance, including maybe even a way to enable a mouse gesture the same way it works for the maps. If you think about it for a sec, isn't a quick and easy type of "draw distance" adjustment part of the way our eyes work? It seems very natural to make SL work in its world the same way. - AK (Aklo Modan) On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Erik Anderson wrote: > > > > Shouldn't the SL client be able to figure out what a good draw distance > > would be? Maybe have it start autodetecting draw distance based on rolling > > average number of polygons visible or something? > > It's not that simple, there are are a number of use cases that call for different draw distances. If you're playing with some kinds of vehicles, you may have the best experience with a medium-low draw distance to keep framerates high but still let you see where you're going. If you're in the audience of a high-traffic event, you may have the best experience with an extremely low draw distance. If you're taking photographs, particularly of scenery, you will turn draw distance up very high and not be so concerned with framerates. If you're trying to keep an eye on a particular spot on a sim X distance from you, you'll want to use a draw distance of at least X. If you're in an indoor area with confined spaces, a very small draw distance may be optimal. If you're trying to get 'the lay of the land' for how a region is spread out, a higher draw distance may be necessary so you can see buildings and landscaping together. This is just off the top of my head. Many of these depend on user's preference for framerate vs scene details at a moment in time, and can't be reliably guessed purely from inworld behavior (although there are hints, I will grant). I find myself frequently adjusting draw distance in practice, mainly for photographcs, music events, and some types of vehicle use. Viewers that have some quick UI for for this are far more handy than the clicks involved in navigating to custom graphics preferences. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Draw Distance
Oop! Sorry, i meant "Arrehn's comments" and "Arrehn's mail," not "Erik's." No offense, Erik. - AK i really like Arrehn's comments! He gives lots of good examples. The best draw distance isn't always a function of the best performance. Sometimes it may not even make sense to someone who's not there at the time. i think one of the important ideas in Arrehn's mail and some of the earlier messages is that draw distance is a candidate for a (maybe optional) onscreen widget that makes it as easy to adjust as the camera controls. All the ideas for chat line access and defaults management of draw distance and other settings are really awesome, too! My opinion says they should be implemented in parallel with something super simple and obvious to use for draw distance, including maybe even a way to enable a mouse gesture the same way it works for the maps. If you think about it for a sec, isn't a quick and easy type of "draw distance" adjustment part of the way our eyes work? It seems very natural to make SL work in its world the same way. - AK (Aklo Modan) On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Erik Anderson wrote: >> > > >> > > Shouldn't the SL client be able to figure out what a good draw distance >> > > would be? Maybe have it start autodetecting draw distance based on rolling >> > > average number of polygons visible or something? >> > > It's not that simple, there are are a number of use cases that call for different draw distances. If you're playing with some kinds of vehicles, you may have the best experience with a medium-low draw distance to keep framerates high but still let you see where you're going. If you're in the audience of a high-traffic event, you may have the best experience with an extremely low draw distance. If you're taking photographs, particularly of scenery, you will turn draw distance up very high and not be so concerned with framerates. If you're trying to keep an eye on a particular spot on a sim X distance from you, you'll want to use a draw distance of at least X. If you're in an indoor area with confined spaces, a very small draw distance may be optimal. If you're trying to get 'the lay of the land' for how a region is spread out, a higher draw distance may be necessary so you can see buildings and landscaping together. This is just off the top of my head. Many of these depend on user's preference for framerate vs scene details at a moment in time, and can't be reliably guessed purely from inworld behavior (although there are hints, I will grant). I find myself frequently adjusting draw distance in practice, mainly for photographcs, music events, and some types of vehicle use. Viewers that have some quick UI for for this are far more handy than the clicks involved in navigating to custom graphics preferences. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Possibility to revert UI changes on snowstorm?
Malachi, what a wonderful question! i know a lot of us would like to have a positive answer to that question. i think right now the status is "almost, sorta". Please do keep me on your list and share any info you get? Thx! - AK ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Possibility to revert UI changes on snowstorm?
Sorry everyone! i pushed the wrong button and didn't get Malachi's msg quoted. Pls forgive the excess traffic? But i thought i'd better redo my msg or the lack of context would make it (more) nonsensical. Thx! - AK (retransmitting...) Malachi, what a wonderful question! i know a lot of us would like to have a positive answer to that question. i think right now the status is "almost, sorta". Please do keep me on your list and share any info you get? Thx! - AK Is it possible to revert the 2.x UI changes? I mean is it possible to keep the functionality of 2.x yet use the visual style of 1.x? -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Possibility to revert UI changes on snowstorm?
Miss C, as someone who's complained bitterly about the Viewer 2 UI, i wanna say that i *like* change. It just has to mean something. It has to make things better, not just different. My opinion has been that the Viewer 2 UI seems to be trying to fix a lot of stuff that wasn't broken. i think what i'm criticizing is called "gratuitous change." The added & improved functionality in Viewer 2 is awesome! Everybody who worked on that should feel real happy with themselves! It's the using of the functionality that's the problem. It's not even stuff that skins are for. Maybe people like shiny buttons, or 3D ones, or whatever kinda color schemes. Maybe even rearranged toolbars & whatever. The problem is pointless changes in the way a user has to do the same things, things that were easy that are now more complicated (or impossible!) without any perceivable reason for them being that way, and drastic presentation changes that alter the way a person feels about using the interface. The UI isn't like looking in the closet in the morning to decide what to wear, and matching earring & necklace selection to mood. It's more like where everything is in the kitchen, whether you can cook yourself an egg sandwich for breakfast or have to eat some of McD's cardboard - or go hungry until dinner, and whether you ride the bus or your bike to work. (Especially if it's raining!) My biggest complaint has been that Viewer 2 UI's biggest change is making SL less "real." For me, that's the way wrong direction! Instead of browserfication of the controls and experience, i'd like to see things moving more in the direction of controls and displays like enhanced reality. i think browserfication is going backwards. i think others agree? Sorry if this msg was too long and sorta off-topic. i'll go back to lurking now. Thx! - AK The point is people do not like change. I love the new UI and to assist people with making that change I have been working today on making the UI look similar to the old one. Such a coincidence this was brought up. Its going to be the same color scheme with a few shiny upgrades to make it look more state of the art. See link... http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4113/5012955294_3f0d0de19b_b.jpg Miss ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm changes (more Lindens fired)
Aimee & Tofu - the information you've shared is only matched by your great attitudes! i know i've sensed only a small part of the awesome work y'all have been doing - i totally agree with all the others that you will be missed. Best wishes for everything!! - AK ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
Hey People! Please excuse me while i say something for all the n00bs in the world, whether their "inexperience" is their fault or not, and without judging anyone's learning speed, patience, or whatever else those with criticize the others who are without for lacking. Maybe i'm just "challenged" myself, but i haven't found anything, anywhere that comes even close to being a "one stop" resource for builders, scripters, land owners, etc. Even the user guide stuff could use better organization and a "more engaging" presentation. It's not like a bunch of us don't have the skills needed to put together a totally killer instruction manual for SecondLife like the one you don't get (but really ought to) for FL (First Life). It's the time, charter, & all the other stuff you have to have to eat & pay tier for in all your lives that gets in the way of doing what i guess too many people don't value enough to hire someone to do a good job of. It's pretty sad, too, because i think there's easily enough active SL premium residents that 10 cents a month from each of them would fund an awesome project, maybe even with some revenue opportunities for LL. What i mean is sometthing like a book that's a website (best with continually updated information) that does the A to Z thing for all the builder & scripter tasks with regular resident & landowner sections to go with it. Not just recipes, but recipes with explanations. A lot of the material needed to start a project like that has already been written, it just needs to be all put all together and organized better. The next step could be to get together a list of all the things people build and script for a comprehensive set of tutorials that covered everything from t-shirts and shoes to complete avatars, vehicles, weapons, shopping malls, and applications for all those advanced features that curious people screw everyone else up with while they experiment. The finished product would have to include a complete set of sample textures, scripts, animations, etc., along with usage tips for at least all the common RL tools, like Photoshop, Blender, Qavimator, and so on. Links to other websites like Adobe,Cinemacchiato Machinima and all that are great for support, but something that has a unified Look & Feel has to happen first. If people already aren't using the material & functionality available, that says the stuff hasn't been made attractive enough, or easy enough to understand, or obviously useful enough for them to be unable to stop themselves from taking advantage of the help & instruction. The point is, if we want people to behave and do things right, it's not all that productive to just expect them to figure it all out for themselves, especially when there's so much bad info going around - some of it produced by people with social adjustment issues and plain malicious intent. And, it's kinda rude to tell someone to take their whatever and go hang out in another sim without trying to help them learn how to do better. Not having enough understanding just creates resentment and more unhelpful behavior. Sorry about the long message. - AK On 28 September 2010 11:20, Ann Otoole ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
Me too! Every time i've dealt with support they've been terrific! i haven't always gotten what i wanted, but support's been real good about what i needed - and really good about helping me understand why what i didn't get was because it was unreasonable. But it's been at least 3 months since i had anything to do with support, and weren't they all in the UK? Could the quality of support have changed with the "restructuring?" - AK On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Kadah wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sadly what sim and land owners really need most right now is support. Anyone that's contacted live support, concierge, or filed a ticket in the last few months knows what I'm taking about. Getting support back on track should be priority. Every time I have ever called support, they have been very helpful, and my issue has been resolved quickly. Ponzu ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Files deleted by uninstaller don't appear in Recycle Bin
i've seen several products that have an uninstall option to "delete user data?" Like, the uninstall won't delete anything except its executables and program data that it installed unless you give it permission to do more at uninstall time. At least one program i've seen asked two uninstall questions like that, the one for user data and another for config files. That program asked about config files because the company had several different versions of its product and sometimes people would switch between them. i know, that's not the best way to do things. i'm just sayin what i've seen. - AK -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Those two parts are not the sum of the problem. Deleted files can appear in the Recycle Bin, which would allow the user to restore them without the use of any special file undelete utitilities. The files SL deletes don't. Someone should check to make sure I'm wrong. TPVs aren't always going to follow best practices any more than LL is going to always follow best practice. Best practice would be that if you ask about deleting files in C:\Program Files\SecondLifeDevelopment, you confine your deletions to files in those folders. Regardless of the flaws in the uninstaller's logic, the question I'm asking here is "Can the deleted files be made to do to the Recycle Bin instead of bypassing the Recycle Bin and thus being, at least in the mind of most users, permanently and irreversably gone?" On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 1:56 PM, Robert Martin wrote: On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 2:51 PM, SuezanneC Baskerville wrote: > The uninstaller asks if you want to delete files left in the SL program > files folder and then if you answer yes it proceeds to delete not only files > in the SL program folder, it also deletes files in the Application Data and > Local Settings folder, including files that were created by TPVs. the problem is in two parts 1 the uninstaller is being unclear and "helpful" 2 best practices for a TPV would be to use its own folder by default (with maybe doing a copy of the avatar log files and such) -- Robert L Martin -- v i r t u a l w o r l d e n t h u s i a s t -- http://www.google.com/profiles/s u e z a n n e -- ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Request for feedback - Preferences Cleanup
Can mine please say "Shut Up". When i think of the context i usually have when i go for that button, "Shut Up" works a lot better for me. Or maybe "Kill" with a little skull & crossbones icon. i'm pretty sure there's a UTF skull & crossbones character that can be used. i know i've sent it to pests at clubs before. "Kill" would be so much more satisfying than just "Mute" or "Block", especially if you consider some of the SL personalities we've all used that button on. Thx!! - AK =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= FWIW, I would also like to see the return to "Mute" instead of "Block". With all due respect to your user testing, the telephone on my desk has a "Mute" button, not a "Block" button, and I consider it a very heavily used communications tool. Perhaps there should be an option in preferences for setting the label for this function to either "Mute" or "Block", as that would keep all of your users happy. Thank you At 09:10 AM 11/5/2010, Sarah (Esbee) Kuehnle wrote: > Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'm working on some updates to the pdf right now and will send that out for further review later today! > > I can't promise all the suggested additions will go into the prefs, but I'll definitely look at each one as I'm making updates. > > A few responses to those who's provided feedback so far: > > @Marine - 1) The text chat logs have been fixed in 2.3 beta. 2) We changed the label from "Mute" to "Block" early on in V2 because our user testing indicated new users were confused about what "Mute" means and understood "Block" because it's used commonly in other communication tools. > > @GeneJ - That for the reminder on that typo. It was pointed out in my OH the other week and I needed a good kick to remember to fix it! :) > > @Wolfpup - We're just talking about skinning for now. In the meantime, I'm just gathering color options in one place. But you're right - future skinning preferences will likely require a restart before changes would take effect. > > @Erin - I've taken note of your request for the numerical debug settings for sculpties. I'm not sure they make sense in this preference cleanup I'm doing now, but will be useful when I can focus my team on a sprint focused on content creation as some point in the near future. As far as local lights go, they've actually been added back in on the Mesh Project Viewer (SH-157) (which will eventually be added into the main Second Life Viewer). I'll take a look at the other tickets you referenced today. > > @Hitomi - Thanks for the additional settings. I'll review these this morning and see what makes sense to incorporate. That's a great list! > > More updates from me soon! > > --Esbee > > > On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 6:50 PM, WolfPup Lowenhar wrote: > > > I keep seeing people talking about user readable chat logs and from what I’m seeing in the current dev builds the logs are already back to plain text. I’m currently working on a feature that is dealing with chat and group/personal IM logs. > > > > From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com [ mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Hitomi Tiponi > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 4:37 PM > To: Opensource_dev > > Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Request for feedback - Preferences Cleanup > > > > Thanks for the Preferences mock-up (must say that I rather like the anime look of them :)) - some really sensible stuff there. > > Suggestions (all currently in Debug Settings): > Chat - adjustable life and fade times for Startup, IM and Group popups - I find they are too short for me to spot sometimes > Chat - Add in spinners to alter the number of times that IM tabs flash and the rate at which they flash at > Advanced - Move 'UI Size' slider to Graphics as KL and myself have done - it fits more naturally there > Graphics->Hardware - allow forcing on of Antialiasing (as the Viewer GPU presets often gets this wrong) or better still fix the presets :) > Move & View - put in spinners for amount of head movement > Move & View - Checkbox to allow double-click point-move in-world as an alternative to double-click teleport (which is welcome) > Move & View - Checkbox for 'Number keys move avatar' > Privacy - Check-box to select option to also create user-readable chat logs (as others have suggested) <- this is what I’m referring to. > Advanced - Checkbox for 'Show Grid Selection at login' > Advanced - Checkbox for 'Disable Camera Constraints' > Advanced - Checkbox for 'Limit the distance I can select objects at' and sliders/spinners for selection distance and amount you can drag in one step > Advanced - Checkbox for 'Show UI in snapshots' > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3236 - Release Date: 11/03/10 > > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information av
[opensource-dev] Down tools and play the "game" -- was Re: What was the point of display names?
Excuse me, brief word from the lunatic fringe, here. Some of us aren't so giddy about the idea everyone has that SL is a "game" and what we do there is "play" that game. i wouldn't be making this noise that most of y'all probably consider "embarrassing," or maybe like being the bad trip at a big party except that: for one, i know for sure i'm not the only one out here on the edge (or over it, whatever); for two, i hate to see the potential SL has being reduced by a lack of concern for more "serious" attention; and three, i think that trying to think of all the people who use SL - and might use it for whatever if it wasn't only treated like a game - as getting more out of it if people developing it would try to think out of the game box. Y'know what, i'll bet that a long time before meat people walk on Mars virtual people will have been there getting real comfortable with the place. Like that. There's lots more. But i think mostly if development thinks like some users might be real serious about all this stuff, then development might be less inclined to make decisions to tell users what they want and try to force them to use it, and more inclined to listen to users and always be sure they have what they want. It's a better business model, for real. 'k, thx for listening. Have a fun day!! - AK -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= How was this set of issues with "display names" not predictable or difficult to forsee? I recommend that LL allow all LL developers to down tools and just "play" second life straight for one entire month and get a real Second Life for themselves - "players" of the game know that that will inform every thought and action, and lead to much better mutual understanding. Everyone seems so totally disconnected from everyone else in terms of agenda, that I think a shared experience (that is, after all what SL is all about) is genuinely the only cure. IMHO :) /esc ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] IP Violations
Please forgive my submitting this mail to this list. i know it's not the perfect forum, but i think some of the people who need to read it are on this list, and that it may be of interest to others. Pretty please, if this bugs you or you think it's spam or whatever, just delete it and forget i sent it. i promise not to respond to anyone or follow-up with any more of the same if people ask me not to. This is the problem: when i first started using SL i did what i think everyone does and collected freebies, did Midnight Madness, accepted presents from pretty much everyone, and really, just acted like someone from the country in New York City. Don't laugh, i know you've been there yourself sometime in your life. Somewhere in all that i got stuff that had been ripped off by bots or whatever. The worst i might be guilty of is receiving stolen property without any knowledge of it, or reason to expect there were problems with it. Beginning about 9 months ago i started getting IP complaint mail from LL and things automatically removed from my inventory. For a while, it was at least once a day. It had effects on things i made myself due to the way i had embedded the stuff with IP violations in it. It also blew it for me with people i'd given copies to of the things i'd made that had problems, especially the new users. i still get IP violation mail sometimes with items automatically removed from my inventory. i have to say, it's unsettling and a little like coming home to find my apartment turned upside down and inside out by the cops. What i think would be much better if, instead of automatically raiding my inventory, the procedure would be IP violation mail with a request to delete the accused items within a week or some reasonable time after which it could be automatically removed. For the benefit of new users, the IP violation warnings should also come with extremely explicit instructions on how to find & be sure all offending items had been removed. The ongoing problem has caused me to make the following resolutions: * Never, ever get any "freebies" anywhere for any reason. * Never, ever do "Midnight Madness" for any reason, at anytime, anywhere. * Never, ever accept anything from anyone for any reason unless i know for certain the it really is theirs to give. Like, i watched them make it. * Never, ever buy anything anywhere at any time, either in world or from an online marketplace unless i know for certain the person selling it is the only other person involved in the sale and that the seller is the person who made it. Like, i watched them do it and they are "there" at the time. That really does pretty much rule out any transaction involving an online marketplace. i tell everyone i know or meet the same thing. i know a fair amount about how computers work. i understand a decent amount of the context of the SL world. Still, whatever the stuff really is, the reality enhancement, surrogate effect, or whatever you want to call it that SL offers is significant enough that root, a sysmon, or whatever they want to call themselves grabbing stuff in a heirarchy with my ID claiming it without asking first is creepy, annoying and to me, worth complaining about. i doubt that i am the only one who feels like that, too. One last thing, i really gotta say is that i feel like some of the people doing the complaining about their IP really ought to look at the total concept of their own lives and try to think about the world as a bigger place than they do. There's times when "hypocrite" is not an unfair accusation in the "big picture" of things. What i mean is, the viewer is open sourced and there are good, creative, intelligent people who are not earning salaries or have lost income because of it. Linux is open source and there are good, creative, intelligent people who are not earning salaries or have lost income because of it, i know because i have known some of them very personally. For anyone who works on open source code, especially the viewer, to complain about the IP in their VW creations being abused is in my opinion, not very fair. Just sayin'. Seriously, i'm an anarcho-communist. i think everyone doing anything worthwhile should be entitled to a fair share of whatever is available in the world and not have to worry about food, a place to live and all that. For "worthwhile," i'd call it anything that some significant number of other people get some good out of, or think is worth having available whether they get anything out of it themselves or not. But we don't live in that kind of world. At least not now. For better or worse LL has made SL a capitalist experience and until someone finds a way of subverting that in a way that keeps everyone happy, that's what we're stuck with. Still, i think beating on people for having some dance animation, hair for their avatar, or other copy of a file that didn't get all the L$ paid to all the people who think they are entitled to them ca
[opensource-dev] SL Browsification
Hey, Y'all, the mail below is a copy of a msg i got from SL this afternoon. Is it some kinda sign that the viewer is in danger of going extinct? i can't tell you how much i wouldn't like it if my SL experience was doomed to be boxed up in a browser! For real, i think i see a big deficit in the functionality available with a browser and the functionality available with a real viewer. But i also realize there's an awful lot i don't know. So i would like to express as much shock, horror, disgust, and black disappointment as possible as soon as possible just in case the idea is to trade the viewer for a browser window somewhere a few releases down the way? Thanks! Have an awesome day, - AK P.S. My computer failed the test, whatever it is. i got the "Join" button instead of the "Explore" button. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Help Us Test the SL Web Viewer Beta Hello, As we explore ways to make the Second Life experience faster, easier, and more fun, we are testing a number of approaches to bring new users closer to the richness of our virtual world. Yesterday, we quietly launched a beta test of a new technology that opens up Second Life to new users like never before: Second Life on the Web! The SL Web Viewer allows new users to become Second Life "guests" through the Web and enjoy basic SL functionality while exploring exciting destinations in Second Life -- all without downloading a Viewer. We need your help to test the SL Web Viewer! Just follow these simple steps: 1. Visit the SL Web Viewer Beta >> 2. There is a 45-second video that will run while the system loads and then you’ll either be offered an "Explore Now" button -- which means that you have successfully qualified -- or a "Join Now" button -- which means that you do not qualify for the test at this time*. 3. If you qualify, you’ll be asked to share your email address to create a temporary guest account to use the SL Web Viewer. We’ll be running tests like this from time to time, and we may ultimately choose to further pursue some or none of these approaches, depending on what we learn from our testing, but we’re very excited to make SL an easier experience for guests and look forward to hearing what you think. Best regards, Kim Salzer VP of Marketing Linden Lab *Note: We’re in the early stages of testing this technology, and not everyone who navigates to the link will be able to access the SL Web Viewer. You are receiving this announcement because you have agreed to receive messages relating to services offered by Linden Lab. For more information refer to our Terms of Service and our Privacy Policy. If you wish to be removed from future mailings please safely unsubscribe or use the Unsubscribe button in subsequent promotional mailings. Please note that you may still receive some e-mails for transactions, instant messages from friends and/or customer service responses. Copyright 2010 Linden Research, Inc., 945 Battery Street, San Francisco, CA 94111 ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] lslwiki
Hey, y'all! Does anybody know what happened to the lslwiki? (lslwiki.net) It's been down a coupla days. Do we know who runs the site? LL support says it's not LL. Thx!! - AK ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] lslwiki
Yes, it is working now for me, too, and thanks so very much to whoever fixed it! Both the official LL doc & the lslwiki are really great & i use them both lots, though i gotta say that the lslwiki is my fave. - AK -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The LSL Wiki was privately hosted before it was hosted by Linden Lab. I think the url was badgeo.com, "badgeo" coming from an SL error message with the words "bad geometry" in it. It became afflicted by a porno spamming site, which led to LL hosting it for a while. LSLwiki.net is working as of the moment I'm typing this. On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 4:43 PM, L. Christopher Bird wrote: LSL Wiki has an interesting history. Back when LL was ALL about user generated content (and support!) the LSL wiki was resident run, and hosted on Linden Servers. Then came the great break in via the website that stole user passwords and everyone's password had to be reset and Linden decided that it could not host any user generated content. So the LSL wiki went into private hands and its own website and bounced around for a short while before landing at lslwiki.net. As far as I know it is maintained by Catherine Winters aka Catherine Omega. I sent her a note via the contact page on her blog. We will see what the story is. But it seems to be the red-headed step-child of the LL run LSL Portal. Personally I like the wiki if for no other reason it does not use mediawiki and entries do not have to have a capital letter so its llSay and not LlSay. -- ZenMondo On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 1:16 PM, wrote: Hey, y'all! Does anybody know what happened to the lslwiki? (lslwiki.net) It's been down a coupla days. Do we know who runs the site? LL support says it's not LL. Thx!! - AK ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -- v i r t u a l w o r l d e n t h u s i a s t -- http://www.google.com/profiles/s u e z a n n e -- ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
