Re: [opensource-dev] web profiles.

[Kadah]

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If its about the possible XSS and html injection, that was fixed today.
All profile text info gets escaped now.

On 1/11/2011 7:47 PM, Simon Quinnell wrote:
> How about you specify the security and privacy issues?  No-one here is a
> mind reader. 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Erin Mallory
> mailto:angel_of_crim...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> because of security and privacy issues with the new profiles can we
> please have option to keep the older ones until someone with the
> profile team gets their act together?
> 
> seriously, these new profiles are creepy.
> 
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Re: [opensource-dev] STORM-243 - simulator version notifications

[Kadah]

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What Oskar said.

Plus there are frequently (every RC roll?) bugs in one more more of the
RCs that will effect a user till they relog on to a different RC server.
- From November to mid-late December I was effected one or another bugs
like that when ever I'd logg in to my home region that was Le Tigre and
later on, Blue Steel.

On 1/18/2011 11:32 AM, Oskar Linden wrote:
> It does have use for people testing server. I'd say make it optional,
> more informative, and disabled by default.
> 
> __Oskar
> 
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Erin Mallory
> mailto:angel_of_crim...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> to rephrase, yes I like them, thought i'd rather see them on the
> chat history and have more detailed.  but i can live without them if
> the majority really want to see them gone altogether.  for me it
> helps me during certain testing and stuff to know when ive changed
> server versions but that's really about it.
> 
> 
> From: angel_of_crim...@hotmail.com 
> To: missannoto...@yahoo.com ;
> q...@lindenlab.com ;
> opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> 
> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 12:04:09 -0500
> 
> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] STORM-243 - simulator version
> notifications
> 
> I would also like to see the toast moved.  it can be useful and
> would be more useful if it had the actual version.  but i would like
> to see it on the chat history instead.  in fact... it would be nice
> to have an option to have ALL remaining system notifications be
> optionally shown in chat history instead of as toasts.  for one
> thing it would log better i think, for another...  well toasts
> bother a rather significant portion of sl.   those with some forms
> of epilepsy, migraines, some forms of add... to name a few...
> 
> Erin/aka Cummere
> 
> 
> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 08:35:01 -0800
> From: missannoto...@yahoo.com 
> To: q...@lindenlab.com ;
> opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> 
> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] STORM-243 - simulator version
> notifications
> 
> Doesn't it add some minor overhead to region crossings? I don't care
> about it. The message does not say what server version you just
> entered so it is mostly an annoyance. If I need version info I know
> where it is.
> 
> What I would like to see is region rating and a single letter server
> version code on the map without having to mouse float.
> 
> 
> *From:* Kent Quirk (Q Linden)  >
> **
> Hi, folks. I've just commented on STORM-243, which requests that we
> have Yet Another Option to allow suppression of the toast that tells
> you the simulator version changed when you changed to a new region.
> 
> I think we should delete it entirely. Does anyone care to still get
> that notification, now that there are usually 3 different simulator
> versions live on the grid at any time? I don't mean "I can think of
> an obscure scenario when someone might care." I mean does anyone
> really need a notification about this, or can we just delete it?
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Link times

[Kadah]

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On windows I found that raiding 2 SSDs drops link times to negligible
levels for full links on 2.4, <1 minute. Normally my links are well over
20 minutes on the same system running compile from disk based raid10.

On 1/14/2011 9:04 AM, Jonathan Welch wrote:
> I just did a quick study on link times for various viewers on my 2Gb XP system
> 
> Viewer  1st link  2nd link
> CV 1.220:53  0:24
> SG 1.5  3:30  2:07
> V2.5 6:18  6:01
> 
> I watched my memory usage during the V2.5 link and did not see it get
> to an extremely low value.
> 
> The sizes of the .exe files are all pretty similar.
> 
> Does anyone have a recommendation on how to improve my link times?
> 1) Add 1Gb of memory (not clear if this would help, but it would be a
> cheap experiment)
> 2) ?
> 
> -Jonathan
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Re: [opensource-dev] SSL Handshake Error

[Kadah]

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I was seeing "my.secondlife.com does not have SSL enabled." when trying
to view profiles from within Firefox most of yesterday. Perhaps the
problem isn't with the built-in browser.


On 1/26/2011 8:52 AM, Sarah Kuehnle wrote:
> I'm seeing this on the Mac as well on the beta and development Viewers.
> This isn't limited to PC-only :(
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 7:16 AM, Erin Mallory
> mailto:angel_of_crim...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> known bug and very annoying.  (its mentioned on a blog post i did as
> a guest blogger in fact).  Workaround is to use ie or firefox to
> open a profile first and then they -should- load in the viewer. 
> (doesn't always work though.)
> 
> > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 10:10:02 -0500
> > From: o...@lindenlab.com 
> > To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> 
> > Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] SSL Handshake Error
> 
> >
> > On 2011-01-26 9:56, Trilo Byte wrote:
> > > Is anybody else getting 'SSL Handshake Error' whenever they
> attempt to look up a resident's profile in the Viewer? Is this
> something that's happening Viewer-side, or (web) Server-side? I know
> the new profile system was working fine not long ago, but sometime
> during the course of the last week they stopped.
> >
> > I'm getting this on viewers built from viewer-development or my local
> > clones of it... it was fixed on the beta branch recently... I'll
> try to
> > figure out what happened with that fix
> >
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Re: [opensource-dev] Link times revisited

[Kadah]

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Have you tried setting the /3GB option on boot to see if that has any
effect as well?

On 1/21/2011 8:16 AM, Jonathan Welch wrote:
> This is a follow up to my earlier Link Times message.
> I just upgraded my system from 2Gb to 4Gb, though it only shows 3Gb as
> being available (the joys of 32-bit Windows XP).
> 
>1st2nd pass
> CV 0:53   0:24  2Gb (CV = Cool Rainbow Viewer, based on v1.22)
>   0:58  0:26  3Gb
> 
> SG 3:30  2:07  2Gb
>   3:33  2:11  3Gb
> 
> V2  6:18  6:01  2Gb
>   5:28  3:33  3Gb
> 
> When I was doing these timing tests, initially with 2Gb, I was also
> monitoring free memory and did not see it get to an extremely low
> value; perhaps data was being sent to the page file before that
> happened, as there is a significant speed gain just by having 1 more
> Gb.
> 
> -jonathan
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Re: [opensource-dev] Need Clarification on interfacing with web-based UI elements

[Kadah]

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It would have been nice if web profiles had been done in something like
XSLT instead :P
Raw profile data can easily be converted or stored into XML and
presintation would be taken care of by Webkit's libxslt.

On 2/3/2011 9:01 AM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
> On 2011-02-03 11:13, Arrehn Oberlander wrote:
>> I'm concerned that I haven't received a response. I've already asked 
>> this question a few times at office hours for Lindens involved in 
>> development, and now here. Even if the answer is "LL will not support 
>> a a stable API to web services" at least it is some kind of answer. 
>> "LL will continue to provide existing non-web APIs for this same data 
>> for the indefinite future" may be an option as well, but I haven't 
>> heard this either. "We're working on this, check back in a month" is 
>> also an answer that would be welcomed over silence.
> 
> Apologies for not at least sending an ACK.
> 
> I am pursuing this within LL.   At the very least, "check back in a 
> month" is something I can say now.  I expect to be able to say something 
> significantly better eventually - maybe even sooner than a month :-)
> 
> 
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Re: [opensource-dev] A fond farewell

[Kadah]

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Thanks for everything Q, we will miss you ;_;


On 3/4/2011 11:18 AM, Kent Quirk (Q Linden) wrote:
> In case you hadn't already heard, this is one of my last emails as Q Linden. 
> Today's my last day.
> 
> It's been fun working with you all. You may see me again as a contributor. 
> We'll see how it goes.
> 
> Thanks for all of your passion.
> 
> Q
> 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Version numbering

[Kadah]

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I believe versioning numbers would go from 2.9 to 2.10 instead of 3.0

I think SL has used the non-decimal numerical school of thought for
versioning on the viewers, like with Viewer 1

On 3/4/2011 6:45 AM, Trilo Byte wrote:
> I understand the rationale behind dialing back the version numbering to 2.5.1 
> (it put the viewer on a path towards 3.0 much sooner than may have been 
> desired), but seeing as 2.5.1 was given an official release yesterday 
> shouldn't the development snapshots be on 2.5.2 to avoid confusion?
> 
> TriloByte Zanzibar
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Re: [opensource-dev] OpenID based logins?

[Kadah]

How about fixing the openID issues with jira before that? I would like
to be able to keep issues open within my browser without openID reseting
every tab the dashboard and forcing their history's to the openID
process page.
Monty and Oz said this was a known issue.

And I'm also against linking SL accounts with any other service. I feel
that should be opt-in only and done in a manner that will not risk
inadvertent disclosures of SL idents (like usernames) to these 3rd parties.


On 4/21/2011 4:34 PM, Yoz Grahame wrote:
> We've long thought about something like this, but it's currently low on
> the priority list.
> 
> For it to be really useful, it needs to work for viewer login; however,
> *that* needs web-triggered viewer login (as in, your authentication
> happens in an external browser window first, and then the viewer logs
> you straight in) otherwise you're forced to auth with your OpenID OP in
> the viewer window, and that's the classic Password Anti-Pattern*.
> 
> Also, *if* we ever do this, we'd probably target Google and Facebook
> login first, though I *think* that Google Auth uses OpenID so we might
> get everything in one shot. (There's a multiple-orders-of-magnitude
> difference between those who'd use Google/Facebook auth and those who
> even know what OpenID is)
> 
> In principle, I know of no reason why we wouldn't want this. We use
> OpenID and OAuth in various places already, and anything that makes it
> easier for people to authenticate securely is a Good Thing. However, we
> need to be convinced that there are major wins here before it can pushed
> up in the priorities.
> 
> *
> http://www.designingsocialinterfaces.com/patterns/The_Password_Anti-Pattern
> 
> On 21 April 2011 22:52, Brandon Husbands  > wrote:
> 
> Any thoughts to being able to link your SL account to an open id
> identity server?
> 
> -- 
> 
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Re: [opensource-dev] OpenID based logins?

[Kadah]

On 4/27/2011 5:25 PM, Yoz Grahame wrote:
> 
> On 28 April 2011 01:34, Kadah  <mailto:kadah.c...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> How about fixing the openID issues with jira before that? I would like
> to be able to keep issues open within my browser without openID reseting
> every tab the dashboard and forcing their history's to the openID
> process page.
> Monty and Oz said this was a known issue.
> 
> 
> I don't know which issue you're talking about from your description - is
> there an existing issue you can point me to?
> The main JIRA-related OpenID issue I'd love to fix is related to
> timeouts and sign-out. There is currently no "single-sign-out" in the
> OpenID spec, which means that until we can implement a uniform method of
> doing this across RPs (which we have a plan for) we need to keep
> sessions fairly short, and this is a right pain.

I described it to Oz and Monty and they knew almost instantly what I was
talking about so here's how is described it to them.
I'll have many open tabs on Firefox to jira issues, if I close and
resume the session, all those tabs will load, hit the openID auth and
all those tabs be redirected to the dashbord or to an a random issue
that I filed but wasn't opened in the previous session. 'Back' on the
tabs will only go back to the openID auth.
They said it was a known issue and from the reaction, it sounded like
there was already an open issue on this but either didn't know the key
or was an internal one. I'm unable to find a public one.
Maybe Oz know's more?

> And I'm also against linking SL accounts with any other service. I feel
> that should be opt-in only and done in a manner that will not risk
> inadvertent disclosures of SL idents (like usernames) to these 3rd
> parties.
> 
> 
> I don't see how we could do it *without* it being opt-in. I mean, I'm
> sure there are incredibly cunning ways that we could root those details
> out if we were really determined, but not only do we not have the time,
> we're not actually inclined that way to begin with.
> 
> Also, bear in mind that what we're talking about here is use of an
> OpenID for private authentication, not for public display. This is not
> about doing any kind of public association.
> 
> -- Yoz
>  
Its hard enough to get google to let me use 4 different accounts (all
for different things and one solely for apps) as is :P
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Re: [opensource-dev] Autobuild install can't install 3p-kdu-private

[Kadah]

Please review, it covers this
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Build_Viewer_With_Autobuild

You need to use the open source configurations instead, ie
autobuild build -c DebugOS
autobuild build -c RelWithDebInfoOS
autobuild build -c ReleaseOS

These will use publicly distributable libraries.


On 5/3/2011 10:26 PM, xinyi chen wrote:
> Thanks, what i just do is to manually edit autobuild.xml then comment
> out the kdu and following  section.
> 
> Your parameter should be normally used for 
> 
> autobuild build | configure command.
> 
> 
> Simon
> 
> 2011/5/4 Marc Adored  >
> 
> kdu cannot be downloaded or distributed legally unless you have a
> licence. I ran into the problem the other day you have to disable kdu
> so it uses openjpeg.
> 
> Use -- -DUSE_KDU:BOOL=FALSE
> 
> I am not sure how to use that in windows but you may know how.
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 1:10 AM, xinyi chen
> mailto:geekclawsupp...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Platform: windows
> > IDE: vs2010
> > When I run the command to install all dependencies , it 's broken
> here:
> > Failed to
> >
> download 
> http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/hg/repo/3p-kdu-private/rev/221672/arch/CYGWIN/installer/kdu-6.4.1-windows-20110218.tar.bz2
> > So where should I manually download the lib from?
> > is there a way to resolve the problem?
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> > Simon
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Re: [opensource-dev] Servers down?

[Kadah]

Yeah, you have to use the *OS configs or you will get errors from not
being able to include the closed licensed libs.

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Build_Viewer_With_Autobuild


On 5/10/2011 8:00 PM, Mysty Saunders wrote:
> or just use 'autobuild build -c ReleaseOS' for open source builds
> 
> 
> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 10:53 PM, Duncan Bradders
> mailto:duncan.bradd...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Hello folks,
> i'm trying to compile a new fresh V2 development branch, it
> appear s3-proxy.lindenlab.com  is
> down, somebody knows what's going on?
> 
> dbradders@Casa:~/Src/viewer-development/indra$ autobuild configure
> -c Release -- -DFMOD:BOOL=OFF
> checking package ogg-vorbis
> installing ogg-vorbis from archive
> checking package openal_soft
> installing openal_soft from archive
> -- Building with OpenAL audio support
> checking package db
> installing db from archive
> checking package apr_suite
> installing apr_suite from archive
> checking package boost
> installing boost from archive
> checking package expat
> installing expat from archive
> checking package zlib
> installing zlib from archive
> checking package google-perftools
> installing google-perftools from archive
> checking package ares
> installing ares from archive
> checking package curl
> installing curl from archive
> checking package openSSL
> installing openSSL from archive
> checking package xmlrpc-epi
> installing xmlrpc-epi from archive
> checking package google_breakpad
> installing google_breakpad from archive
> checking package jpeglib
> installing jpeglib from archive
> checking package libpng
> installing libpng from archive
> checking package googlemock
> installing googlemock from archive
> checking package tut
> installing tut from archive
> checking package kdu
> installing kdu from archive
> downloading kdu archive from
> 
> http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/hg/repo/3p-kdu-private/rev/223538/arch/Linux/installer/kdu-6.4.1-linux-20110311.tar.bz2
> unable to download file:  out>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File
> 
> "/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/autobuild-0.8.5-py2.6.egg/autobuild/common.py",
> line 253, in download_package
> file(cachename, 'wb').write(urllib2.urlopen(package).read())
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py", line 126, in urlopen
> return _opener.open(url, data, timeout)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py", line 391, in open
> response = self._open(req, data)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py", line 409, in _open
> '_open', req)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py", line 369, in _call_chain
> result = func(*args)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py", line 1170, in http_open
> return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py", line 1145, in do_open
> raise URLError(err)
> URLError: 
> ERROR: failed to download
> 
> http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/hg/repo/3p-kdu-private/rev/223538/arch/Linux/installer/kdu-6.4.1-linux-20110311.tar.bz2
> For more information: try re-running your command with --verbose or
> --debug
> CMake Error at cmake/Prebuilt.cmake:34 (message):
>   Failed to download or unpack prebuilt 'kdu'.  Process returned 1.
> Call Stack (most recent call first):
>   cmake/LLKDU.cmake:12 (use_prebuilt_binary)
>   llkdu/CMakeLists.txt:15 (include)
> 
> 
> -- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred!
> ERROR: default configuration returned 1
> For more information: try re-running your command with --verbose or
> --debug
> dbradders@Casa:~/Src/viewer-development/indra$ 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm PO review build

[Kadah]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

STORM-787
There is an unclosed (likely also truncated) check_box entry at
panel_preferences_sound.xml@346. This is preventing the rest of the
panel from being displayed. Looks like a bad merge.

On 6/26/2011 8:12 PM, Twisted Laws wrote:
> STORM-787   - setting not
> displayed in preferences media
> Mute Gestures Button 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Review Request: STORM-1315: Ability to do simple math in numeric edit fields

[Kadah]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Fixed. Not sure why that didn't want to work the first two times.

On 6/30/2011 10:00 AM, Vadim Savchuk wrote:
> On 06/30/2011 09:57 AM, Kadah Coba wrote:
>> This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
>> http://codereview.secondlife.com/r/377/
>>
>>
>> Review request for Viewer.
>> By Kadah Coba.
>>
>>
>>   Description
>>
>> This is a direct adaptation of Aimee Trescothick's contributed patch from 
>> STORM-1315 for v-d. Adjustments were made where needed to make it work with 
>> the newer boost and llui code. Some changes were made to the variable names 
>> it uses on build; ie "PX" for x position instead of just "X".
>>
>> Patch allows for imputing simple math equations in to the spinner controls. 
>> On the build floater a series of variable names are available for using the 
>> objects current values in equations, like "sx+3" will take the current X 
>> scale and add 3.
>>
> I get an error when try to view the diff on Review Board. Please refresh
> it or create a new review request (not sure how to fix).
> 
> -- 
> Vadim
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Autobuild errors

[Kadah]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


The wiki documention should really be changed to not mention any of the
configs without *OS first as only internal Linden builds can use those.


On 7/7/2011 9:37 AM, Nicky Perian wrote:
> use ReleaseOS
> 
> 
> *From:* Lee ponzu 
> *To:* Opensource_dev 
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 7, 2011 11:27 AM
> *Subject:* [opensource-dev] Autobuild errors
> 
> it has been a long time since I did a build.  I tried to follow the
> instructions on the wiki, download autobuild, clone viewer-beta...
> 
> Here is the error.  Any advice welcome.  Insults also accepted, since I
> am starved for human contact...
> 
> ponzu
> 
> 
> mbpro:viewer-beta lee$ autobuild build --verbose -c Release
> executing configure command cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:STRING=Release
> -DWORD_SIZE:STRING=32 -DROOT_PROJECT_NAME:STRING=SecondLife
> -DINSTALL_PROPRIETARY=TRUE -G 'Xcode' ../indra
> checking package fmod
> installing fmod from archive
> downloading fmod archive from
> http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/hg/repo/3p-fmod-private/rev/221852/arch/Darwin/installer/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2
> downloading
> http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/hg/repo/3p-fmod-private/rev/221852/arch/Darwin/installer/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2
> to /var/tmp/lee/install.cache/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2
> unable to download file: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/Users/lee/Documents/viewer/autobuild/autobuild/common.py", line
> 253, in download_package
> file(cachename, 'wb').write(urllib2.urlopen(package).read())
>   File
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
> line 124, in urlopen
> return _opener.open(url, data, timeout)
>   File
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
> line 389, in open
> response = meth(req, response)
>   File
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
> line 502, in http_response
> 'http', request, response, code, msg, hdrs)
>   File
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
> line 427, in error
> return self._call_chain(*args)
>   File
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
> line 361, in _call_chain
> result = func(*args)
>   File
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
> line 510, in http_error_default
> raise HTTPError(req.get_full_url(), code, msg, hdrs, fp)
> HTTPError: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
> ERROR: failed to download
> http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/hg/repo/3p-fmod-private/rev/221852/arch/Darwin/installer/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2
> For more information: try re-running your command with --verbose or --debug
> CMake Error at cmake/Prebuilt.cmake:48 (message):
>   Failed to download or unpack prebuilt 'fmod'.  Process returned 1.
> Call Stack (most recent call first):
>   cmake/FMOD.cmake:27 (use_prebuilt_binary)
>   llaudio/CMakeLists.txt:8 (include)
> 
> 
> -- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred!
> ERROR: configuring default configuration returned 1
> For more information: try re-running your command with --verbose or --debug
> mbpro:viewer-beta lee$ 
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
> 
> 
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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Re: [opensource-dev] Autobuild errors

[Kadah]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

You have 3 options for fmod, 2 hacky workarounds:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_2_Microsoft_Windows_Builds#Prepare_third_party_libraries
or skip fmod (add -- -DFMOD:BOOL=FALSE to the end of your autobuild command)

On 7/8/2011 10:27 AM, Lee ponzu wrote:
> Still getting an error...
> 
> mbpro:viewer-beta lee$ autobuild build --verbose -c ReleaseOS
> executing configure command cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:STRING=Release
> -DWORD_SIZE:STRING=32 -DROOT_PROJECT_NAME:STRING=SecondLife
> -DINSTALL_PROPRIETARY=FALSE -G 'Xcode' ../indra
> checking package fmod
> installing fmod from archive
> downloading fmod archive from
> http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/hg/repo/3p-fmod-private/rev/221852/arch/Darwin/installer/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2
> downloading
> http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/hg/repo/3p-fmod-private/rev/221852/arch/Darwin/installer/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2
> to /var/tmp/lee/install.cache/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2
> unable to download file: 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/Users/lee/Documents/viewer/autobuild/autobuild/common.py", line
> 253, in download_package
> file(cachename, 'wb').write(urllib2.urlopen(package).read())
>   File
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
> line 124, in urlopen
> return _opener.open(url, data, timeout)
>   File
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
> line 383, in open
> response = self._open(req, data)
>   File
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
> line 401, in _open
> '_open', req)
>   File
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
> line 361, in _call_chain
> result = func(*args)
>   File
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
> line 1130, in http_open
> return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req)
>   File
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
> line 1105, in do_open
> raise URLError(err)
> URLError: 
> ERROR: failed to download
> http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/hg/repo/3p-fmod-private/rev/221852/arch/Darwin/installer/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2
> For more information: try re-running your command with --verbose or --debug
> CMake Error at cmake/Prebuilt.cmake:48 (message):
>   Failed to download or unpack prebuilt 'fmod'.  Process returned 1.
> Call Stack (most recent call first):
>   cmake/FMOD.cmake:27 (use_prebuilt_binary)
>   llaudio/CMakeLists.txt:8 (include)
> 
> 
> -- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred!
> ERROR: configuring default configuration returned 1
> For more information: try re-running your command with --verbose or --debug
> 
> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Nicky Perian  > wrote:
> 
> use ReleaseOS
> 
> 
> *From:* Lee ponzu mailto:lee.po...@gmail.com>>
> *To:* Opensource_dev  >
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 7, 2011 11:27 AM
> *Subject:* [opensource-dev] Autobuild errors
> 
> it has been a long time since I did a build.  I tried to follow the
> instructions on the wiki, download autobuild, clone viewer-beta...
> 
> Here is the error.  Any advice welcome.  Insults also accepted,
> since I am starved for human contact...
> 
> ponzu
> 
> 
> mbpro:viewer-beta lee$ autobuild build --verbose -c Release
> executing configure command cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:STRING=Release
> -DWORD_SIZE:STRING=32 -DROOT_PROJECT_NAME:STRING=SecondLife
> -DINSTALL_PROPRIETARY=TRUE -G 'Xcode' ../indra
> checking package fmod
> installing fmod from archive
> downloading fmod archive from
> 
> http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/hg/repo/3p-fmod-private/rev/221852/arch/Darwin/installer/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2
> downloading
> 
> http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/hg/repo/3p-fmod-private/rev/221852/arch/Darwin/installer/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2
> to /var/tmp/lee/install.cache/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2
> unable to download file: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/Users/lee/Documents/viewer/autobuild/autobuild/common.py",
> line 253, in download_package
> file(cachename, 'wb').write(urllib2.urlopen(package).read())
>   File
> 
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
> line 124, in urlopen
> return _opener.open(url, data, timeout)
>   File
> 
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
> line 389, in ope

Re: [opensource-dev] Review Request: STORM-1534: Derive Credits lists of contributors and translators from doc/ files

[Kadah]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

The lists in app_settings/contributors.txt and
app_settings/translators.txt are not sorted or displayed alphabetically
(random order?), is this intentional?

On 8/2/2011 10:40 AM, Oz Linden wrote:
> 
>   Description
> 
> In the Help>About Second Life dialog, there are lists of users who have 
> contributed to the viewer and provided translations.  Prior to this change, 
> those lists had to be updated manually (and had not been updated in quite 
> some time).
> 
> Since we have a separate file (doc/contributions.txt) to track contributions, 
> and it is in an easily parseable format, this change modifies the viewer 
> build to construct a file (app_settings/contributors.txt) containing those 
> names, and another for the translators (app_settings/translators.txt) from a 
> new doc/translations.txt file (the contents of which are not complete in this 
> patch, but are sufficient for review and testing purposes).
> 
> I also removed the list of Lindens from the dialog, as it too had not been 
> updated in a long time and replaced it with a more generic statement.
> 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Review Request: STORM-1534: Derive Credits lists of contributors and translators from doc/ files

[Kadah]

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Judging from the diff, it looks like they might have been merged in to
the doc/contributions.txt list.

Hmmm, the random order was intended Why is that? *cross posts
question to jira*

On 8/2/2011 3:44 PM, Latif Khalifa wrote:
> The about box contains a list of people who have contributed not only
> code changes but have participate in other aspects of SL viewer
> development such as QA. Are these contributions going to be deleted now?
> 
> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 11:38 PM, Kadah  <mailto:kadah.c...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> The lists in app_settings/contributors.txt and
> app_settings/translators.txt are not sorted or displayed alphabetically
> (random order?), is this intentional?
> 
> On 8/2/2011 10:40 AM, Oz Linden wrote:
> 
>>   Description
> 
>> In the Help>About Second Life dialog, there are lists of users who
> have contributed to the viewer and provided translations.  Prior to
> this change, those lists had to be updated manually (and had not
> been updated in quite some time).
> 
>> Since we have a separate file (doc/contributions.txt) to track
> contributions, and it is in an easily parseable format, this change
> modifies the viewer build to construct a file
> (app_settings/contributors.txt) containing those names, and another
> for the translators (app_settings/translators.txt) from a new
> doc/translations.txt file (the contents of which are not complete in
> this patch, but are sufficient for review and testing purposes).
> 
>> I also removed the list of Lindens from the dialog, as it too had
> not been updated in a long time and replaced it with a more generic
> statement.
> 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Call for mesh volunteer regions

[Kadah]

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The estate owner has to volunteer.

On 8/2/2011 4:42 PM, Laurent Bechir wrote:
> She is renting a sim. Can she asks herself to be volunteer or does she
> have to ask to the sim owner to do it ?
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Re: [opensource-dev] 3.0.0 Beta Candidate available

[Kadah]

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Large inventory? I'm getting very close to this myself, the inv loading
is taking far too long for me and blocking the viewer from communicating
for almost a timeout period.

On 8/10/2011 8:20 PM, Erin Mallory wrote:
> I cannot get it to run in advanced mode.  immediately upon loading it
> disconnects.  Every time...
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Re: [opensource-dev] 3.0.0 Beta Candidate available

[Kadah]

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I had just under 40k, and after a very heavy clean up, around 25k but my
inventory is still slow to load and unload on viewer2. Its not related
to the inv cache. It could just be that mine is on a very poorly
performing asset server.
When ever I log in on any v2 viewer, it takes a good 3 to 10 minutes
after logging in for the lag events to finish and for my avatar (any) to
actually become visible to myself. The initial event seems to be durning
the inv view creation and it takes nearly long enough to cause me to
become timed out. And this has been the case for quite some time, since
2.5 or 2.4. :s

On 8/11/2011 12:07 PM, Mike Chase wrote:
> On 08/11/2011 02:48 PM, Kadah wrote:
>> Large inventory? I'm getting very close to this myself, the inv loading
>> is taking far too long for me and blocking the viewer from communicating
>> for almost a timeout period.
> Whats large?  I have about 50k items and no startup issues...  I do see
> what appears to be occasionaly random crashes (I cant tie it to a
> specific action).  But I've only started running it..
> 
> Mike
> 
>>
>> On 8/10/2011 8:20 PM, Erin Mallory wrote:
>>> I cannot get it to run in advanced mode.  immediately upon loading it
>>> disconnects.  Every time... 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Version Numbering

[Kadah]

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On 8/10/2011 9:06 PM, Daniel wrote:
> (1) Addition of a whole new asset class (mesh) with custom UV mapping, 
> LOD's, and physics shapes
> (2) New physics engine & physics type
> (3) Change of the prim accounting system from fixed to variable for mesh 
> and items using new physics type
> (5) Change of maximum object size from 10 to 64m
Server changes.

> (4) Deferred render pipeline with projected lighting
Was mostly there in 2.7.

> (6) New login page
Same and was in 2.8.1 I believe.

> (7) Social profiles on the website
Same and affects all LL viewers since 2.5.

> (8) Search that actually works
Same and affects all viewers, even v1 (soon).


That said, I was suspecting they would go 3.0 with mesh, but I was
expecting they'd also do something involving the UI as well.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Version Numbering

[Kadah]

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On 8/11/2011 1:10 PM, leliel wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Kadah  wrote:
>>> (4) Deferred render pipeline with projected lighting
>> Was mostly there in 2.7.
> 
> Deferred rendering has been around since the 1.20 viewer, projected
> lights were added in 2.0. The only thing 2.7 did was put the options
> in the preferences floater.

And fix a lot of the bugs.
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Re: [opensource-dev] 3.0.0 Beta Candidate available

[Kadah]

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I guess it all depends on which of the blocking log in events is hitting
you for you for too much time. I was just say that for me its always
seems to be inv or outfit related.

On 8/11/2011 2:41 PM, Erin Mallory wrote:
> Im under 60k  and im NOT seeing this on older v2 versions or on
> firestorm so I'm fairly certain it is simply this version of the viewer. 
> 
>> Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 12:34:48 -0700
>> From: kadah.c...@gmail.com
>> To: mike.ch...@alternatemetaverse.com
>> CC: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
>> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 3.0.0 Beta Candidate available
>>
> I had just under 40k, and after a very heavy clean up, around 25k but my
> inventory is still slow to load and unload on viewer2. Its not related
> to the inv cache. It could just be that mine is on a very poorly
> performing asset server.
> When ever I log in on any v2 viewer, it takes a good 3 to 10 minutes
> after logging in for the lag events to finish and for my avatar (any) to
> actually become visible to myself. The initial event seems to be durning
> the inv view creation and it takes nearly long enough to cause me to
> become timed out. And this has been the case for quite some time, since
> 2.5 or 2.4. :s
> 
> On 8/11/2011 12:07 PM, Mike Chase wrote:
>> On 08/11/2011 02:48 PM, Kadah wrote:
>>> Large inventory? I'm getting very close to this myself, the inv loading
>>> is taking far too long for me and blocking the viewer from
>> communicating
>>> for almost a timeout period.
>> Whats large? I have about 50k items and no startup issues... I do see
>> what appears to be occasionaly random crashes (I cant tie it to a
>> specific action). But I've only started running it..
> 
>> Mike
> 
> 
>>> On 8/10/2011 8:20 PM, Erin Mallory wrote:
>>>> I cannot get it to run in advanced mode. immediately upon loading it
>>>> disconnects. Every time...
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Re: [opensource-dev] Mercurial hook checking for well-formed XML

[Kadah]

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We did something similar in Firestorm, but winthin the viewer, all
malformed XML is treated as an error in RelWithDebInfo and Debug.
Testing builds in RelWithDebInfo instead of release is always a good
idea anyway as it treats many silly goofs as errors instead of warns,
like missing settings.

http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-firestorm-lgpl/rev/2c68d4aa5a01
http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-firestorm-lgpl/rev/8fc22bdb1e7b

On 8/12/2011 2:18 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
> 
> We've had a spate of errors lately that would have been detected by
> checking whether or not some XML file was well formed, so I've written a
> mercurial hook to check.  It is written in python such that it runs
> within your existing hg commands without spawning another process; I
> don't believe that it significantly affects performance.
> 
> It can be used both to check for changes being committed and to check
> changesets being pulled as a group.  If any XML file in the change is
> not well formed, it aborts and rolls back the transaction (the commit or
> pull fails and your local repo is unchanged).  In the case of pulling,
> if  a file is changed in more than one changeset, only its final form is
> checked. If the last change is to remove the file, it is not checked.
> 
> You can get the hook by checking out a copy of my tools collection into
> anywhere in your local files that's convenient:
> 
>https://bitbucket.org/oz_linden/tools
> 
> it's in the hooks subdirectory.  Or by just fetching:
> 
>   
> https://bitbucket.org/oz_linden/tools/raw/16d049e51924/hooks/well_formed_xml.py
> 
> (I recommend the former, since it will make pulling any update easier)
> 
> Install by putting the configuration below into your ~/.hgrc file (or
> the .hg/hgrc file of a specific repository), changing /path/to/ to the
> full path to your copy of the file:
> 
> [hooks]
> 
> pretxncommit = python:/path/to/well_formed_xml.py:hook
> 
> pretxnchangegroup = python:/path/to/well_formed_xml.py:hook
> 
> *
> I strongly urge all viewer developers to begin using this ASAP, since
> effective immediately I have it installed and will fail any merge
> request to viewer-development that fails this test.
> *
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Current status of Mesh??

[Kadah]

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On 8/31/2011 10:16 AM, Robert Martin wrote:
> Questions i have
> 
> 1 what is the conversion of Vertexes to Prims?? (how many vertexes do
> you get for a "prim")
Its not even anywhere close to that simple.

> 2 are there any simple tools to make models (Blender does not qualify).
None that I know of.

> 3 are non-biped avatars supported in mesh?? (quads are the biggest concern)
Arbitrary skeletal structures aren't supported at this time, but maybe
in the future.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Current status of Mesh??

[Kadah]

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On 8/31/2011 11:43 AM, Kelly Linden wrote:
>> 3 are non-biped avatars supported in mesh?? (quads are the biggest
>> concern)
> 
> While Kadah is correct, for a 'quad' I would bet you could use the arms
> with custom animations.. This page has a list of the joints:
> https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/Troubleshooting

Indeed but that's nothing new :P
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Re: [opensource-dev] Collaborative LSL scripting and TPV policy

[Kadah]

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On 9/2/2011 9:50 AM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
> On 2011-09-02 12:32, Stickman wrote:
  Since the official viewer already allows:
  - copy/pasting any modifiable script
  - and opening them in an external editor,
  should I understand that modifiable script export is a functionality
  that Linden Lab's viewers already provides? Or do we really have to be
  the creator of the script?
>> Policy question. Technically not an item for this list, but there is
>> no place to ask questions like these.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with asking policy questions here, so long as they 
> also relate to open source development.
> 
> 
> I'll see what I can do about getting an answer to that question (such 
> things are rarely quick).

I would believe exporting script would fall under the same isOwner &&
isCreator && hasCopy && hasMod && hasTrans check for exporting any other
asset.


In-viewer revision control has been long time wish list item for me, for
the exact same reasons, but my skill level for such things its to the
level to do such myself yet. The whole copy-paste routine is extremely
annoying after a while.
An alternative solution would be at least a bulk upload of scripts, even
single script upload would be a vast impoverishment really.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer UI mode merge

[Kadah]

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My top annoyances on first impressions:
No Map button by default, and no ctrl+M shortcut at all.
Can't relocate the chiclets syswell, or at least reduce the standoff
from the corner. I use that corner exclusively for the minimap, which
has always made using the v2 UI difficult.
Nearby voice should be a flyout panel of nearby (outstanding from 2.0)
Nearby chat should be dockable in Conversations (outstanding from 2.0)

Otherwise its rather nice. You won't see my crying over the sidebar
being removed and the abality to see and type in to local is long
overdue. I really like the customizable buttons, though I wish they were
not per-user.

A quick vid I made of the new button customization:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9dvwEr_JuY
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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer UI mode merge

[Kadah]

On 10/18/2011 7:20 PM, Arrehn Oberlander wrote:
> Thanks for sharing Oz,
> 
> Although I like the general direction of the improvements and believe
> they have good potential, I feel the obligation to point out to your own
> presentation with Esbee and Qarl two years ago coming off of the
> difficult Viewer 2 rollout, where the three of you stood up before
> everyone at SLCC and told us that LL wasn't going drop these large UI
> rewrites on the community as surprises.
> 
> I'm glad it's there, I think it has potential, but the communication and
> coordination with the greater development community was poor at best,
> and at worst, contrary to what LL directly communicated.
> 
> It would perhaps have been better to have these as project viewers well
> in advance of a sweeping merge.

+1
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Re: [opensource-dev] FUI project just out - no more sidebar

[Kadah]

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On 10/19/2011 4:20 AM, Argent Stonecutter wrote:
> On 2011-10-18, at 21:09, Geenz wrote:
>> I can't be the only one who thinks that window management needs
>> to be re-thought for FUI.  As it stands, it seems as if that
>> actually took a step backwards.
> 
> One thing that's an immediate show-stopper for me: chat as a
> separate floater.
> 
> After all the debate over chat in 2.x, how could they even further
> marginalize it?


To me local chat is the same since 2.0, except now the local chat log
and chat bar panels are in the same floater. I agree that it should be
a stopper, but I have thought since 2.0 beta.

Sadly it only a small effort to add docking support to local chat in
to conversations.
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Re: [opensource-dev] FUI project just out - no more sidebar

[Kadah]

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On 10/19/2011 5:25 AM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
> On 2011-10-19 2:52, Lance Corrimal wrote:
>> first rule in UI design: do not move essential stuff with no
>> extremely good reasons.
> 
> Maybe they wanted you to discover that you could move them?  Sounds
> like an ok reason to me...


I'm gonna guess that was the reason for removing Map as well, make me
figure out how to add it back before I can use it. I noticed that the
ctrl+M shortcut wouldn't actually work till I added the button back at
least once per profile.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Linden Lab's Google Calendars issue

[Kadah]

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I noticed this too, it was within the last couple weeks.

On 12/5/2011 9:09 AM, Ricky wrote:
> It seems that as of some point in the last few months the publicly 
> exported Google Calendars from Linden Labs has been set to "Anyone 
> can: See only free/busy (hide details)" - meaning no-one out here
> can actually know what's going on in the little blue boxes.  Here's
> one that's exported on the wiki: 
> https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:User_Groups#Calendar
>
>  Ricky Cron Stardust 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Inventory Patch you should integrate

[Kadah]

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On 1/7/2012 3:41 PM, Hitomi Tiponi wrote:
> Will a patch be provided for Viewer 1

No. But which ever V1 TPV gets around to porting it first can provide
it to the others to save them time.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Review Request: STORM-1793 1) Treat all mini-map altitudes above 1020 m as the same height 2) Improve z-level accuracy

[Kadah]

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On 1/27/2012 3:37 PM, Jonathan Welch wrote:
>> Would the client have a problem if another word was added to the
>> message giving - duplicating the data, but allowing newer clients
>> to choose to use the new word while older clients use the old
>> byte?
> 
> Yes, because the coarseupdate packet holds many positions, it is
> not just 1 packet per avatar, but as many as can be packed into
> the coarseupdate packet as will fit.  So it is not possible to
> alter this packets' format in any way.  Doing so would break all
> existing viewers that expect it to have its current format.
> 
>> Would the client have any problems if the CoarseLocationUpdate
>> message was never sent?
> 
> Yes, with a small exception, you would not know where anyone is
> anymore.
> 
>> date set for some time in the future, while a new message that
>> could handle much higher detail information was put in place and
>> all newer clients were switched to it?
> 
> This has been discussed several times at the server group
> meetings. Fixing this just to have a fully correct map display is
> more trouble than it is worth; having to run two packet formatters
> in parallel forever, having to query the viewer what packet format
> it wants, etc. is just not worth such a big effort.

I just wanted to add that the message containing all agents is only
packed once per update, then sent in bulk to all agents.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Review Request: STORM-1793 1) Treat all mini-map altitudes above 1020 m as the same height 2) Improve z-level accuracy

[Kadah]

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On 1/27/2012 6:21 PM, Argent Stonecutter wrote:
> How about reducing the vertical resolution of the packet by 4?

This was also brought up several times during the various discussions.
It would break old/existing clients more than the current change, and
the vertical resolution of 12m is a very significant height
difference, agents could be on 2 or 3 different floors of a building
and all report as being at the same level.
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Re: [opensource-dev] View on Lion

[Kadah]

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I've ran it on my 2011 mini mac and it runs ok, but with really bad
color distortions, which are possibly due to it only have the cheap
Intel gfx chip.

Building the viewer (at least with Firestorm) on Lion seems to also
work without any special setups other than xcode 4.whatever and cmake.

On 1/31/2012 10:29 AM, Lee ponzu wrote:
> Would someone be willing to give a short summary of the status of 
> using the viewer on Lion.
> 
> For that matter, what is the status of Lion, period.  OS Xista? Or 
> is it ok?
> 
> lee
> 
> 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Inventory Patch you should integrate

[Kadah]

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On 2/10/2012 10:31 AM, Henri Beauchamp wrote:
> "File JIRAs for any issues you find ..."
> 
> If it's not a request for feedback, then I don't know what it is..
> 
> Granted, I didn't file a JIRA, but since the patch was posted
> here...

^Yeah, that. The server folks don't monitor this list so posting
feedback here when a Jira is in order is not going to get this issue
attention in a timely manner. Oz's responsibility was to inform us of
an impending change(s) to the inventory service but only the viewer
side changes required for those service changes themselves are in his
purview. If there is a problem with the either of the 2 changes to the
inventory service, the product owner needs to know before this gets
put in an RC, so file a Jira yesterday.
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Re: [opensource-dev] ObjectCategory

[Kadah]

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On 2/18/2012 2:36 PM, Henri Beauchamp wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 22:37:49 +0100, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)
> wrote:
> 
>> Does anyone know of any current use of the ObjectCategory message
>> or the Category information it carries?
> 
> It is used in LLSelectMgr::selectionSetObjectCategory(), but this 
> function doesn't seem to be used anywhere in the viewer code...
> 
> I would say that it would allow to set the category (inventory
> folder) to which the object is to be "derezzed" (this is normally
> set on rezzing for objects dragged from the inventory and dropped
> into the sim, so that when "Taking" the object back, it reappears
> in the inventory folder from which it was rezzed).
> 
> Henri.

I've done a datamine on the whole v-d repo history and couldn't fine
any usage of LLSelectMgr::selectionSetObjectCategory(). I'd do the
same on 1.x but my SVN clone of it isn't handy. I have the feeling
that message hasn't been used in a long time.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Policy Changes

[Kadah]

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I think the general rule is here that if its something like Emerald's
multi-attach where it doesn't work or causes artifacts for other
viewers, it needs to go through LL, get PO approval and a project for
getting effected APIs added or changed, as well as viewer support
added to V-D for everyone to pull from.


On 2/24/2012 4:55 PM, Celierra Darling wrote:
> (I am not a lawyer, but...)
> 
> From the text in the blog post, it looks like it's intended to be
> an anti-fragmentation measure.  I don't think it's literally a
> desire to make the TPV devs wait until the official viewer catches
> up (and definitely not to make TPV people "develop [features] for
> the LL viewer").
> 
> To help allay the concern, though, I think there could be some sort
> of "with specifications released by LL" exception - once an API has
> been hashed out and released, I can't think of any benefit to
> making the TPV wait.  That'd make the rule a little more tightly
> focused on getting TPVs to make specs that LL's willing to endorse
> and use.
> 
> Celi
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 7:18 PM, Jessica Lyon 
>  > wrote:
> 
> Actually, under 2.k, features like breast physics, secondary 
> attachments, shared parcel WL etc, would have never been permitted 
> to exist. And this means that any feature in the future to which a 
> TPV may conjur up, which effects the shared experience (Ie. 
> something one user could see but another couldn't) will need to be 
> developed for the LL viewer by TPV devs, accepted by LL, released
> by LL before a TPV may release it themselves. Another example would
> be the Mesh deformer from Qarl, if LL were not interested in it..
> none of us would be allowed to release it in our viewers.
> 
> Jessica Lyon Project Manager The Phoenix Viewer Project, Inc.
> 
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 7:00 PM, Cinder Roxley 
> mailto:cin...@cinderblocks.biz>> wrote:
> 
> Yes, you're mistaken. The key phrase there is "alters the shared 
> experience of the virtual world".  A tpv can alter individual 
> user's experiences, (UI, build tools, controls, graphics 
> enhancements) but not the shared experience of the world.  IE, 
> exposing information such as the friend online visibility of *other
> users*.
> 
> Kind regards, -Cinder
> 
> 
> On 2/24/2012 4:44 PM, Nalates Urriah wrote:
>> Does this new policy essentially eliminate the reason for the 
>> existence of 3rd party viewers:
>> 
>> 2.k : You must not provide any feature that alters the shared 
>> experience of the virtual world in any way not provided by or 
>> accessible to users of the latest released Linden Lab viewer.
>> 
>> http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Viewer/Third-Party-Viewer-Policy-Changes/m-p/1399141
>>
>>
>> 
This seems to say all changes can be submitted to LL but not
>> implemented until and unless LL approves them and adds them to 
>> the SL viewer. Am I mistaken?
>> 
>> -- Nalates Urriah (SL AV)
> 
> 
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> 
> -- Jessica Lyon Phoenix Viewer Project Inc 
> http://phoenixviewer.com
> 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Policy Changes

[Kadah]

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On 2/25/2012 4:08 AM, Tillie Ariantho wrote:
> - What about text based viewers? - What about viewers on mobile
> devices? - What about special viewers for disabled people, that may
> have quite some different representation of everything?
> 
> - What about the shared experience of very old LL viewers? Not
> allowed to copy/clone if its not in the "latest released Linden Lab
> viewer"? - What about LL viewers in DEV or BETA status? Have TPV
> devs to wait till a feature is officially out?

Same thing for out dated 3d viewers, not having current features or
features that would be considered basic (like mesh or view of the
world in 3d at all) has never been against the TVPD policy and still
isn't.
2.k is regarding adding things that change it.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Tutorial needed on TPV viewer-side AOs

[Kadah]

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On 4/13/2012 9:16 AM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
> Ok... so those are nice opinions to have, but you're not succeeding
> in educating me... what is it that makes these better or worse?
> 
> What do they do or not do that differentiates one from another?

Gonna try to list pro/cons-ish things about both that I'm aware of.

Scripted AO pros:
* Work on any viewer
* Can natively affect avatar's movements (eg. move faster, fly, swim)
* Included as part of an outfit without needed further required actions
* "Buy & wear" work flow
* Latency-poof for the most part
* Unique behaviors through additional scripting

Scripted AO cons:
* Memory foot print of some AO huds are ridiculously high
* Memory and notecard limitations restrict animation lists
* Unable to detect when animations are being overridden by another
source (eg. pose balls)
* Issues related to no-script parcels and script-disabled regions
* Unable to react to user actions not exposed in LSL (I don't have an
examples of this offhand that client AOs have implemented)
* Subject to simulator performance issues (eg. High TD or script time
will highly affect them, but movement  in general is usually an issue
during these events anyway)
* Some complicated AOs eat up a none trivial amount of script
time/CPU, even compact AOs add up to a lot when a region is near capacity
* Updating AO core less than ideal (typically requires repacking all
animations and notecards in to new copy of the HUD. Given the normal
volume of items involved with these, just viewing the objects
inventory is non trivial let alone transferring. This process is not
"noob friendly". Could be offset with AO hud that supports and
"updater", but these also have their caveats and further add to script
load.)


Clientside AO pros:
* Can detect when animations are being overridden by another source
(eg. pose balls)
* No script memory impact (unless being fictionally expanded by a worn
scripted object)
* Ditto for script time impact
* Nearly unlimited animation list lengths
* Not subject to no-script land and script-disabled regions
* Updating AO system considerably easier, only requires updating the
viewer

Clientside AO cons:
* Not supported by every viewer and different viewers' AOs might not
function identically (Though most of them use FS one, but not always
the same version of it)
* Currently cannot be part of an outfit for easy switching (AFAIK.
Could be added with some cleverness.)
* Subject to simulator-viewer latency
* Less than ideal setup flow (minimally requires unpacking to folder
in inventory)
* Requires viewer update to add features or fix bugs (not sure if
that's necessarily a bad thing)

Disclaimer: I'm not too familiar with FS's clientside AO.

[One thing that was brought up a few times by others is object-to-AO
communication support by scripted AOs, and that it could be added to
clientside AOs with a relay. But there is a problem with this, not
many AOs actually have this feature, nor do many in-world objects make
use of it, and the ones that do, use different or unique standards. I
wouldn't count this as a major feature of any AO, but might have the
possibility to be one if there was a one widely adopted standard.]

I had planned for this to be a short list, I guess that didn't happen.
The major pros and cons of both are just essentially the technical
limitations of doing something in either LSL or on the viewer's end.
Ideally I think getting SCR-10 implemented would help scripted AOs be
more robust, and adding some sort of minimal support for serverside
animation override to help mitigate the latency would make clientside
AOs better suited for the average User McResident.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Tutorial needed on TPV viewer-side AOs

[Kadah]

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On 4/13/2012 1:10 PM, Henri Beauchamp wrote:
> Again, the viewer side AOs are in fact mimicking exactly what
> scripted AOs (and most specifically Francis Chung's "Franimation
> Overrider") do.

I believe FS's was designed to mimic the ZHAO II hud, it even uses its
config notecards. "Franimation Overrider" is a new one to me.

> The scripted AOs got two main flaws (which are in fact the result
> of the same lack in the scripted event support): they are often too
> slow to change the overriding animation in time to avoid seeing
> the overridden animation playing for a second or so before the
> overriding anim is started.

I've only seen that behavior with clientside AOs. I figured it was due
to the latency of the viewer having to respond to a simulator event
then send an override.


> Another, much worst issue with viewer side AOs, is that, like I 
> explained in my previous message in this thread, they lack a way
> to be disabled automatically by scripts. Let me explain this issue
> more in details: while AOs are great, they can be a nuisance when
> interacting with certain scripted objects which want to play their
> own animation on your avatar. This is especially the case for
> "seats" (in the largest extent of the term: i.e. any object you
> "sit" your avatar onto) that usually provide their own sit anim;
> these objects stop the default sit anim (llStopAnimation("sit")) 
> then start their own anim. If your AO is configured to override
> the default sit anim, then the overriding anim will also override
> the scripted seat object's anim. In order to solve this problem,
> the Lockmeister protocol 
> (https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Protocol/LockMeister_System#Special_Commands)
>
> 
was extended with "bootoff" and "booton" commands ("boot", because
> the first AOs were in fact used in scripted shoes/boots) allowing
> to (respectively) turn off and turn back on the compatible AOs 
> automatically. The seat then just has to send a "bootoff" commmand
> when your avatar sits down on it, then a "booton" command when the
> avatar stands up, and your AO gets automatically turned off and
> back on so that the seat's anim is not overridden.
> 
> Note that there are other cases than just seats (for example when 
> wearing two AOs or, for BDSM folks, when scripted cuffs are used 
> and must be able to override an AO in some cases and especially 
> when the avatar is fully chained/bound).

Unlike LSL, the viewer would be able to tell when something else is
trying to animate the avatar. I don't know if the FS AO handles this
(I don't actually use the viewer, and I prefer the use flow of an
attachable AO), but it is a possibility where it is not for a scripted
one.

> Also, not all seats/scripted-devices-with-built-in-anims use
> Lockmeister and this results in having to manually disable the AO
> in some cases.
Most don't.


> There is however a caveat to this apparently ideal solution: anim 
> states are currently hard-coded with the default anim UUIDs in the 
> viewers and a few code paths in the viewers check these to decide 
> whether to take some actions (this is true for AGENT_ANIM_WALK,
> for example: see in llvoavatar.cpp): this could cause a few
> glitches and would have to be checked/tested. A solution for these
> few hard-coded code paths/anim states would perhaps be for the
> server to send (play) both the default anim and the overriding anim
> in a row (and also to stop both in reaction to a
> llStopAnimation("walk")): as long as the overriding anim is played
> last and got the same or a higher anim priority, this would still
> work.

What about having the option to just not sending those play messages
for the default anims in the first place?
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Re: [opensource-dev] Tutorial needed on TPV viewer-side AOs

[Kadah]

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On 4/13/2012 4:23 PM, Ziggy Puff wrote:
> Kadah wrote:
> 
> /I believe FS's was designed to mimic the ZHAO II hud, it even uses
> its config notecards. "Franimation Overrider" is a new one to me./
> 
> ZHAO-II was born from ZHAO-I, which was born from Franimation,
> which was created by Francis Chung. Franimation is a direct
> ancestor of ZHAO-II, and is much older. There would have been no
> ZHAO without Franimation.

Ah ok. That was all before my time :P
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Re: [opensource-dev] Tutorial needed on TPV viewer-side AOs

[Kadah]

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On 4/13/2012 6:09 PM, glen wrote:
> The funny thing is that the only reason why I even bothered writing
> one in the first place is because yours didn't have "sit now"!
> 
> See Oz? Features!

What is "sit now"?

Your average user isn't going to be adding their on code to their AO,
that's how you and I would fix it :P
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Re: [opensource-dev] Tutorial needed on TPV viewer-side AOs

[Kadah]

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On 4/14/2012 1:14 AM, Henri Beauchamp wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 16:05:05 -0700, Kadah wrote:
> 
>> On 4/13/2012 1:10 PM, Henri Beauchamp wrote:
>>> Again, the viewer side AOs are in fact mimicking exactly what 
>>> scripted AOs (and most specifically Francis Chung's
>>> "Franimation Overrider") do.
>> 
>> I believe FS's was designed to mimic the ZHAO II hud, it even
>> uses its config notecards. "Franimation Overrider" is a new one
>> to me.
> 
> Francis Chung's "Franimation Overrider" existed long before the
> ZHAO HUD, and in fact, at the end of the documentation for the
> latter you can read: "Based on Francis Chung's Franimation
> Overrider v1.8"
> 
> Let's not overlook the contribution of the original authors (I
> hate it enough when it happens to my contributions to not let it
> happen to others'...).
> 
> Henri.

Somebody else already explained it to me. It was before my time and
its been years since I've looked at the documentation for the ZHAO II
mod I use.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Tutorial needed on TPV viewer-side AOs

[Kadah]

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On 4/14/2012 5:16 AM, Argent Stonecutter wrote:



It would be possible to make it seem like a worn asset, but it would
be a bit tricky.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Tutorial needed on TPV viewer-side AOs

[Kadah]

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On 4/14/2012 5:16 AM, Argent Stonecutter wrote:
> On 2012-04-13, at 12:17, Zi Ree wrote:
>> Am Freitag, 13. April 2012, 18:35:00 schrieb Adeon Writer:
>>> Alright, here's some features that, if missing, *someone*
>>> would complain:
>> 
>> All of your requirements are present in the Firestorm viewer
>> side AO.
> 
> Only because he forgot to include the extremely important "it has 
> to be an asset that can be worn with an outfit". That one's a 
> complete dealbreaker for me.


It would be possible to make it seem like a worn asset, but it would
be a bit tricky.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Tutorial needed on TPV viewer-side AOs

[Kadah]

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On 4/14/2012 5:23 AM, Argent Stonecutter wrote:
> On 2012-04-13, at 18:05, Kadah wrote:
>> I believe FS's was designed to mimic the ZHAO II hud, it even
>> uses its config notecards. "Franimation Overrider" is a new one
>> to me.
> 
> Franimation is what ZHAO was originally based on.
> 

Yeah, its been pointed out to me over a dozen times already... I get
it >_>
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Re: [opensource-dev] master_message_template.msg

[Kadah]

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On 4/22/2012 10:20 PM, Lance Corrimal wrote:
> yep, the message-template repo on GH has not seen a single commit
> since it was created 0.o

Likely cause only CG worked on it and he's been gone for a while now.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Resizeing on V3 viewers

[Kadah]

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On 5/14/2012 5:36 PM, WolfPup Lowenhar wrote:
> I just created this issue :
> 
> 
> 
> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-28965
> 
> 
> 
> This issue is filed against the current Release of  the LL Viewer. 
> Please test on All platforms to see if it is only affecting viewers
> for Windows only. Plus if this is also affecting TPVs that are V3
> based please note @ what change set of the release viewer you are
> building from for your TPV.

How does this behave with the changes for EXP-1777 (which are
currently only in Viewer-dev)?
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Re: [opensource-dev] help with "autobuild package" for fmod

[Kadah]

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There is no provided Fmod package due to license restrictions, you
either have to package it yourself
(http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_2_Microsoft_Windows_Builds#Prepare_third_party_libraries)
or disable it (configure -c ReleaseOS -- -DFMOD:BOOL=FALSE).

I usually do the later since that is far easier/faster and I rarely
ever use sound in SL, let alone when testing.

On 6/8/2012 11:27 AM, Diana Aybar wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I recently joined the development world in the second life viewer.
> I am trying to build the "viewer-development" project  following
> the instructions in
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_2_Microsoft_Windows_Builds#Configuring_the_Viewer
> link.I am currently stuck in the*fmod method 1(using autobuild),
> *on the "autobuild package"  step. When I try this command I get an
> error saying "cannot add license LICENSES\fmod.txt" and the package
> does not get created.  so I cannot pass beyond this step. can
> someone help me please?
> 
> 
> Diana
> 
> 
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Re: [opensource-dev] New HTTP Library & Project Viewer

[Kadah]

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On 7/30/2012 10:20 AM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
> Opening many connections also puts additional strain on routers in
> the path that are doing connection tracking (which too many do),
> adding another possible source of problems.

It's a known issue that with the default concurrent setting of _4_
that many consumer level networking equipment can quickly overloaded
by the viewer. This project will eventually address local open
connection overloading (ie, few connection and allowing keep-alive).
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Re: [opensource-dev] A rather uniquely unexpected behavior from Second Life's official viewer

[Kadah]

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I see this too sometimes. What release channel is the region?

On 7/26/2012 7:35 PM, Moriz Gupte wrote:
> Hello, I am wondering  what could be causing objects to disappear
> in the latest Second Life viewer 3.3.4.26
> 
> See picture of the same scene (1) in the SL official viewer, and
> (2) in FireStorm Inline image 1
> 
> I am wondering why the SL viewer is not rendering objects? This is
> one strange behavior  When I log back in, I can see all them
> again, regardless of whether I clear cache or not. Any clues what
> could be wrong. This is a show stopper for me because now am not
> sure what users will be seeing or not.
> 
> R
> 
> -- 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.' 
> *Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, /Research Associate Professor/, Idaho
> State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-282-5333 Blog
> , LinkedIn 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [opensource-dev] New HTTP Library & Project Viewer

[Kadah]

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On 7/30/2012 4:13 PM, Henri Beauchamp wrote:
> Don't put word in my mouths, that I never pronounced... I was not
> speaking about *persistent* connections. The current HTTP fetches
> are not persistent connections, and that's why 32 simultaneous
> requests are not really an issue (and it was actually the limit in
> Snowglobe v1.5, thus why I kept it in the Cool VL Viewer, but made
> it configurable (and defaulting to 16), when I noticed that the v2
> viewers changed that limit down to 8 then up to 16 and then to
> whatever number it is now hardcoded with).


Its 8 again with the fallow comment. I tired to track down the rev,
but apparently Mecurial 2.2 can't properly annotate that file for some
reason, and the new UI for it in TortoiseHg2 is horrid. All of the
referenced jiras around its changes are not public.

//NOTE:
//control the number of the http requests issued for:
//1, not openning too many file descriptors at the same time;
//2, control the traffic of http so udp gets bandwidth.
//
static const S32 MAX_NUM_OF_HTTP_REQUESTS_IN_QUEUE = 8 ;
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Re: [opensource-dev] New HTTP Library & Project Viewer

[Kadah]

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On 8/2/2012 9:57 AM, Carlo Wood wrote:> Kadah,
> Please note that I cannot read your posts. They have no clear text
>  in them, and exist only of a Microsoft(tm) company specific 
> attachment.
> 
> You might want to fix this.

I haven't used a MS email client since I quit my last job 6-7 years
ago where it was required (Exchange). For personal emails, I've been
using Thunderbird since version 1.0. :P


On 8/2/2012 10:08 AM, cin...@cinderblocks.biz wrote:
> Kadah's emails are signed with an ascii-armored pgp key (not 
> microsoft). You can ignore the munged gobledy-gook key and find
> his messages somewhere in the middle. :)

^ Yeah, this. :3

I'm not sure what Carlo is seeing since the pgp signature block is at
the end and says what it is in plaintext. :p


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Re: [opensource-dev] New HTTP Library & Project Viewer

[Kadah]

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Oldest and nearest are different classes of things, but given the
context, I'm going to guess you meant far to near.

The texture priority is determined within the viewer, and, in theory
(and my understanding of code last time I worked around it), gives
higher priority (fetch and decode) to textures that has higher visual
impact, eg. larger area on screen.

The loading far vs near you mention is object loading, which, to my
understanding, is controlled by the sim via the "interest lists".
These will be getting updated as a later part of this project, or
another, I think.


On 8/3/2012 6:05 AM, Robert Martin wrote:
> One side bar to this is the problem of what order textures are
> being fetched Is the order still by oldest texture first or has
> that been fixed to nearest texture first?? ( it would help the
> expedience if the avatars textures were loaded first and then the
> stuff near to the avatar was loaded [followed by everything else])
> 
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[opensource-dev] XUI Cleanup Project

[Kadah]

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This weekend I was working on some XUI files and my OCD (I don't
actually have OCD) was getting very frustrated over the random
formatting, lack of consistent indentation, trailing whitespace,
random/missing newlines and wildly differently sorted arguments.
Usually I'd either completely retab the file or give up, but I was
lazy and tired of not doing anything. So needless to say I got nothing
done on in XUI and spent the few days writing a script to reformat XUI
files to some level of code standards.

There is no XML code standards on
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Coding_standard
So I used my own, which were as such:
* Unix EOLs
* Child elements indented +4 spaces
* Each argument on onw line and indented +1
* Arguments sorted by defined list then alpha order
 (eg. 'name' and composting before random control specific args)
* Comments must be preserved

Initially I looked for existing tools/libs that can do XML cleanup,
but I had the same results I found the last time I looked, that none
of them could cover all the requirements. Surprisingly comment support
was actually hardest to find support for, unsurprisingly argument
sorting is extremely uncommon and the ones that did were poor.
After that I attempted to find an XML lib for parsing, but found that
pretty much all of them did not support comments or the tabled output
was unstable.

So I ended up writing the XML parser and reserializer myself.
Everything appears to output correctly, but I lack a diff tool that
supports XML to be able to do verification. The text diff tools I'm
familiar with can only do word/character comparisons and the reordered
args, and sometimes drastically improved whitespace, make manual
checking tedious.

So does anyone know of a, preferably, open source XML diff tool?

I'm guessing it could be possible to extract some of the XML/XUI file
parsing from the viewer and make one, but it would be a pain in the rear.


If this works out, I'll release the scripts (MIT licensed), and submit
the requisite jira/RB to push upstream XUI cleaned up, which would be
really nice.

Samples:
Input:
http://hg.secondlife.com/viewer-release/raw/24c6da14256c/indra/newview/skins/default/xui/en/panel_preferences_general.xml
Output: http://pastebin.com/9K40N49w

Input:
http://hg.secondlife.com/viewer-release/raw/24c6da14256c/indra/newview/skins/default/xui/en/menu_login.xml
Output: http://pastebin.com/i16De7xU

- -Kadah
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Re: [opensource-dev] XUI Cleanup Project

[Kadah]

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On 8/3/2012 3:36 PM, Richard Nelson wrote:
> There is already code to round-trip XUI files through the param
> block mechanism such that invalid attributes and default values are
> dropped and formatting is normalized.  That code hasn't been
> exercised in a few years, though, so it probably won't run
> correctly right away, but it does provide a mechanism for keeping
> XUI files in line with changing param block schema going forward.
> 
> R.

This is in the viewer somewhere? Is there any documentation on it?

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Re: [opensource-dev] XUI Cleanup Project

[Kadah]

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On 8/4/2012 5:55 PM, Hitomi Tiponi wrote:
> Yes - the formatting on the xui code of the official viewer is 
> horrific, especially the few files that have been relatively 
> unchanged since Viewer 1.

That was the impression I was getting when I looked it over. And if
its to put the XUI standard used in V1, that's unsuitable (eg. one
line per control), and the same effect could be done more conveniently
with existing XML utilities. V1 formatted XUI was far worse to work with.


> Sadly LL's own standards are so vague that many different styles 
> actually conform to them.  I tried to standardize on my version
> but gave up and  just followed the LL lead as it just messed up
> the diffs too much.

I couldn't find any documented standard for XML. The one I'm using is
based on observation of new XUI that has consistent formatting.
Keyword there is 'consistent', which most of it largely isn't.

> Recent xui files by LL are actually getting better, but indents, 
> tab use, spacing etc. are still inconsistent.

It has, but there's a lot of the old XUI from the v2.0 rush period and
lots of patching of it in the fallowing couple years.


I think I'll continue with the one I'm working on instead of trying to
resurrect the viewer's one. Cleaning out unused params is pretty
minor, to me, right now. As far as verification, I'm just going to use
an XML lib and compare tables.



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Re: [opensource-dev] XUI Cleanup Project

[Kadah]

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I've added some quick verification code with expat and released the
initial version up to bitbucket.

https://bitbucket.org/Kadah_Coba/xui_cleanup


Usage is pretty easy, lua XUI_Cleanup.lua [input_dir] [outpit_dir]
Input and output directories need to exist and, for right no, need to
be absolute paths and only the top level folder is searched.
Technically, the in and out dirs can be the same.

The fallowing modules are required (All should be in Lua Rocks.)
http://math2.org/luasearch/rex.html
http://keplerproject.github.com/luafilesystem/manual.html
http://matthewwild.co.uk/projects/luaexpat/index.html
http://code.google.com/p/lua-ex-api/ (Only used to check OS)


On windows you can use this package which has all of these already:
http://code.google.com/p/luaforwindows/
But windows will require a python install for eol.py (Lua limitation
that /n is always the os default)
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Re: [opensource-dev] HG-Repositories

[Kadah]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On 8/7/2012 3:18 PM, Boroondas Gupte wrote:
> From recent changes 
> 
>
> 
on the wiki, I take that the role of the various official mercurial
> repositories has changed again. Which repository should
> contributions be based on, now? And which one is now the
> recommended base for third party viewers?

- From what I know, viewer-release is still the preferred for pulling
upstream changes from, and that viewer-dev won't have changesets being
removed from it now.

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Re: [opensource-dev] ok this may sound dumb but what is the llphysicsextention package

[Kadah]

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On 8/8/2012 10:27 AM, Nyx Linden wrote:
> We use Havok libraries as our implementation of
> llconvexdecomposition. The interface to llconvexdecomposition has
> not changed, only the packaging of it, as we needed to add more
> havok functionality to the viewer for pathfinding.
> 
> You should be able to tie in HACD to llphysicsextensions and leave
> the rest stubbed out with minimal effort. If anyone has difficulty
> with porting to the new structure do let us know, and we'll help
> how we can.
> 
> Separating out the two parts would just result in havok libraries
> that are shared between convex decomposition and the pathfinding 
> functionality being linked in twice for the main viewer.
> 
> -Nyx

Has the llphysicsextention stub source been pushed to a public repo
yet? Last I heard there was some closed sources bits that needed to be
sorted out still.

- -Kadah

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Re: [opensource-dev] Mercurial repository webpage layout

[Kadah]

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>> Every minute lost browsing pages for nothing is not spend coding
>> and is lost time...
> 
> Each repository has its own RSS feed - once you've set up the 
> subscriptions, you can use any feed reader to efficiently track
> activity.

Or signing up for the commit notifications list:
https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/viewer-development-commits

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Re: [opensource-dev] software development

[Kadah]

On 11/20/2012 3:22 AM, Lance Corrimal wrote:
> http://www.sandraandwoo.com/2012/11/19/0430-software-engineering-now-with-
> cats/

Good one. x3
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Re: [opensource-dev] DSG Experiment needs a few more Participants; Distributed Scene Graph Experiment (100's of Virtual World Simultaneous Users Online)

[Kadah]

>From public whois:
107.7.0.0/16 is held by the US government.
107.7.21.224/27 by the United States Army Simulation and Training
Technology Center.


On 3/21/2013 12:58 PM, Henri Beauchamp wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 07:03:21 -0700 (PDT), Nicky Perian wrote:
> 
>> I am getting security warnings from my browser when going to
>> these links.
> 
> Probably an invalid certificate (self-certifed site). Plus, the URL
> contains an IP (107.7.21.233) instead of a domain name, and there 
> is no reverse-DNS entry for this IP ('nslookup 107.7.21.233'
> returns: ** server can't find 233.21.7.107.in-addr.arpa.:
> NXDOMAIN).
> 
> If I were you, I would simply not try to follow such a link...
> 
> I am also quite surprised by these emails we get in this list: I
> don't see any interest in them (I don't even see what they are
> supposed to deal with: in what aspect are they at all related to
> viewers development ?).
> 
> They also got huge attachments (pictures), which makes them a pain
> to retrieve when your connection is slow.
> 
> Not sure what is the list moderator's stance on this...
> 
> Henri. ___ Policies and
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Re: [opensource-dev] llTextBox Propogation

[Kadah]

On 6/12/2013 4:02 AM, Stickman wrote:
> It was recently argued to me against the use of llTextBox because
> of a warning on the wiki regarding its behavior on non-supported
> clients.
> 
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlTextBox Not supported in official
> Linden Labs viewers prior to version 2.4, and some TPVs may not
> support it. Unsupported viewers will display a dialog box with a
> single option of "!!llTextBox!!".
> 
> ARE there any TPVs (or official viewers) that don't support
> llTextBox? I thought it was universal by now.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Stickman


Get me a list of which viewers and versions that either do or don't
support it and I can give you an estimate of adoption of it.
I have a feeling its going to be around the same as Mesh, 96.3%
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Re: [opensource-dev] llTextBox Propogation

[Kadah]

On 6/12/2013 9:10 AM, Darien Caldwell wrote:
> Well, given Oz's recent revelation that there's over 1600
> different version of the SL client logging in daily, sure, it's
> possible someone is still using a client that doesn't support
> llTextBox().

The 1600 channels weekly figure misleading since only 50-60 of them
account for, I estimate, over 90% the sessions per week and the
remaining mostly on a handful of different non-TPVD viewers and text
clients. The bulk of those 1600 channels are ones that get a few
logins a week.
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Re: [opensource-dev] ThrottleBandwidthKBPS - kilobit per second or kiloBYTE per second?

[Kadah]

On 7/26/2013 10:47 AM, Argent wrote:
> 
> On Jul 26, 2013 12:32 PM, "Darien Caldwell"  > wrote:
>> So basically while this system is probably beneficial to those with
> bad internet connections, it's rather punitive to those who have
> excellent, wide pipe connections. The only way to increase the bandwidth
> max is to recompile the viewer.
> 
> One should also consider how much of Linden Labs bandwidth one is
> entitled to before dismissing it as 'punitive'. :)

Indeed. There's been a number of incidents where few users in a region
on [VIEWER NAME REDACTED] can use a high disproportional amount of sim
resources and and cause rather sever problems for others. Just last week
I got trapped in a region due to this. That was fun.
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Re: [opensource-dev] ThrottleBandwidthKBPS - kilobit per second or kiloBYTE per second?

[Kadah]

On 7/30/2013 8:25 AM, Carlo Wood wrote:
> Well, since everyone has to download the same amount of data
> in the end, its rather hard to use a "disproportional" amount
> of resources, unless a viewer just downloads the SAME thing
> over and over again, which would be severe bug.
>
> The only other thing that might be called using too much
> resources is when the sim is failing to deliver data, and
> connections that are made just time out. In that case it
> will be the viewers that have the most aggressive re-try
> policy that are using the most resources.
> 
> For clear reason, in those situations it will be the viewers
> that retry most aggressively that will succeed faster than
> others to retrieve the data.
> 
> In my experience, this is V3. Even on servers where most
> TPV's fail completely to get any data because of huge number
> of disconnects and timeout - V3 *still* manages to get all
> data in around 2 minutes time! I'm able to run a V3 viewer
> myself but independent sources told me that they saw V3 make
> up to 40+ connections at a time to the texture/mesh service.

The cause is known and I believe (hope) they are working on it right
now, so it's likely the next release will be ok. I'm not clear on the
particular details, but incorrect retry behavior and throttling sound right.
As bad as V3 is at over use of connections (200-300 in a few seconds
isn't unheard of), its not the problem and Monty's work on the viewer
and server side of things have made big improvements. :3
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Re: [opensource-dev] ThrottleBandwidthKBPS - kilobit per second or kiloBYTE per second?

[Kadah]

On 7/30/2013 11:39 PM, Ambrosia wrote:
> Additionally to that, the amount of traffic that goes through the
> actual sim these days has been highly reduced with bringing
> textures, mesh and materials onto the sim-external HTTP pipeline
> that isn't bound to a single sim.

CAPs are per sim host I believe, so flooding requests on them could
affect a number of regions and not just the one the agent is connected to.

> Of course there is still people who feverishly set their texture 
> pipeline to UDP because that's what they did a year ago when the
> HTTP pipeline was less mature. One of those people has more impact
> on the performance on sim-entry than any person with a 3k bandwidth
> setting, but HTTP-enabled texture pipeline, will ever cause these
> days.

Remember when HTTP textures was first added and it was really really
much faster than UDP? Remember when HTTP texture CAP use became
mainstream on 99% of agents and how it became almost as slow as UDP was?

And if you have a crappy consumer router (like it sounds like Niran
has), you can end up with pretty sever issues from it choking on all
the quick successive connections the viewer makes. Monty's work HTTP
on both ends will have (has had) great improvements here.
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Re: [opensource-dev] ThrottleBandwidthKBPS - kilobit per second or kiloBYTE per second?

[Kadah]

On 7/31/2013 1:09 AM, Marx Catteneo wrote:
> PS as a machinimator i need the fastest possible connection to the
> servers because any throttling can give me a stuttering image, so if i
> turn mine down i'll have to wait an hour before i can start filming in a
> sim and even then it would stutter more and i wouldn't get a good fps
> and can't do my job.

Thats not how bandwidth throttles work. If anything the less throttling
would cause a greater slow down in the viewer since its having to handle
all the sessions to download more textures and decode more of them more
often. Ideally you'd want to have all the texture and mesh assets
already fully cached to disk before recording since then the viewer
would be able to do a cheap cache read of the texture to discard 0 and
decoding once vs having to download each discard level and decoding and
displaying each as they are received.

If you want to really improve bandwidth on texture fetching, a
transparent squid proxy, with SL specific cache re-write scripts, makes
a massive difference on subsequent visits to either infrequent
destinations or power viewer cache clears. I ran one of these myself for
a couple years (till that server died, planing to redo it at some
point), it was invaluable for testing and just normal use; the viewers'
cache system is inarguably poor and someone cache wipes are unavoidable
or necessary for testing some cases.
This was one of the means of how we were able to fix so many texture
corruption (and related) bugs on Phoenix in the span of a couple months.
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Re: [opensource-dev] ThrottleBandwidthKBPS - kilobit per second or kiloBYTE per second?

[Kadah]

On 8/1/2013 12:23 AM, Lance Corrimal wrote:
> - does it still have to be a transparent squid, now that the viewer actually 
> has proxy settings?
Sorry, I didn't mean transparent. I have a transparent one at work on
one network for other reasons. Setting the web proxy in viewer is all
that's needed.

> - do you still have those scripts? If so please post them somewhere.
http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/squid_proxy_cache
It looks like the store_url_rewrite script on there is the updated one
for the new CAP URL format.
There is some discussion on this happening in: FIRE-9430
http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-9430

> and food for thought:
> what is the *normal* User supposed to do? you know, the kind that hears 
> "squid" and thinks "seafood"
Wait for LL to finish improving the http viewer-server communication.
It's already a lot better than it was last year.
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[opensource-dev] Windows ReleaseOS build unable to load textures

[Kadah]

I'm working on a thing (some of you know what) and I've run in to a 
rather annoying issue that's sunk most of the day as it was starting to 
make testing difficult.

None of my ReleaseOS viewer-release builds are able to load textures. 
I've found that it's fine if I patch in KDU. While that is a workaround, 
it would be nice to know what I'm doing that makes OpenJPEG fail, 
assuming it does work at all.

Every texture request is generating the following on a clean build of 
viewer-release:
WARNING   LLViewerFetchedTexture::updateFetch : oversize, setting as missing
WARNING   LLViewerFetchedTexture::setIsMissingAsset : 
dc60d326-ba27-db3a-103a-e378d6dd2530: Marking image as missing

To get at least something more, I added a debug output from FS to 
updateFetch (). Output was such:

  INFO   LLViewerFetchedTexture::updateFetch : Discarding oversized 
texture, width= 4096, height= 4096
  WARNING   LLViewerFetchedTexture::updateFetch : oversize, setting as 
missing
  WARNING   LLViewerFetchedTexture::setIsMissingAsset : 
dc60d326-ba27-db3a-103a-e378d6dd2530: Marking image as missing
  INFO   LLViewerFetchedTexture::updateFetch : Discarding oversized 
texture, width= 16384, height= 16384
  WARNING   LLViewerFetchedTexture::updateFetch : oversize, setting as 
missing
  WARNING   LLViewerFetchedTexture::setIsMissingAsset : 
2aa5fd81-464f-3b76-40a7-f498a1561b76: Marking image as missing
  INFO   LLViewerFetchedTexture::updateFetch : Discarding oversized 
texture, width= 2048, height= 8192
  WARNING   LLViewerFetchedTexture::updateFetch : oversize, setting as 
missing
  WARNING   LLViewerFetchedTexture::setIsMissingAsset : 
2c007a7c-11c1-5748-e1a8-a77806efa9e3: Marking image as missing
  INFO   LLViewerFetchedTexture::updateFetch : Discarding oversized 
texture, width= 1024, height= 4096
  WARNING   LLViewerFetchedTexture::updateFetch : oversize, setting as 
missing
  WARNING   LLViewerFetchedTexture::setIsMissingAsset : 
50a3b5d7-f32f-41ce-ff7a-450a4bbf1e8f: Marking image as missing

All but the 16384 ones appear sane.

Autobuild config invocation:
setx AUTOBUILD_VARIABLES_FILE 
"C:\Users\Kadah\Desktop\Dev\viewer-build-variables\variables"
autobuild configure -c ReleaseOS -A 64


Full viewer logs:
https://pastebin.com/yzswgNnm
https://pastebin.com/WeiYf2G7

Viewer about:
Within build VM: https://pastebin.com/Q1tKdw2U
Installed on host: https://pastebin.com/PeyLBEiN

Any help would be appreciated.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Windows ReleaseOS build unable to load textures

[Kadah]

 > all the replies

Thanks. That answers my main suspicion, that it is actually broken and 
not something I missed.

Fixing OpenJPEG is well outside the scope of my project, but the KDU 
patch will at least allow me to see if the LLTextureCtrls are functional.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Migrating open development focus to 2.x

[Kadah]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I could spend a lot of time repeating things, but "what Agent said" fits
the bill. The 2 main issues I've been hearing about since the first beta
release have been the side bar and notifications.

The new notification system is just confusing and disorienting. There is
just too much to say about it that I don't have the hours needed to go
over it all. The last time I tried to use it I closed a notice for an
offline IM after I opened it caused the IM window to be killed and I
lost the offline message. I had to dig in to my logs to figure out who
it was and what they said.

I think that everything that can be said about how unloved the sidebar
is, has been said at least 900 times already on the list.


> Put the location back in the title bar so the search bar can be hidden
> without losing track of where you are.
+1, Location should be shown in the upper bar like in 1.x at least when
the Location bar is turned off.



On 5/27/2010 3:44 PM, Argent Stonecutter wrote:
> On 2010-05-27, at 16:50, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
>> I understand that might leave
>> behind things that the Snowglobe user/dev base wants and that some
>> people are not happy with some elements of 2.x.  What I'd like to know
>> is... what needs to happen to make that choice that most people can be
>> happy with?
> 
> Roll back most of the changes to text chat, at a bare minimum fix the  
> text chat focus problem, but really text chat needs to be in a single  
> overlay instead of a separate badged pane for each person speaking,  
> and the text input gadget is at least half the width of the screen.
> 
> Roll back the sidebar, or maybe provide an option to have separate  
> floaters instead of the sidebar.
> 
> Put the location back in the title bar so the search bar can be hidden  
> without losing track of where you are.
> 
> I don't know what to do about IMs, I found the combination of IMs and  
> notices popping up in the lower right corner completely  
> incomprehensible and uncontrollable. It's frustrating, like the viewer  
> is going "stuff happened! But I'm not going to let you see it!"
> 
> I can't explain that last part better because I haven't been able to  
> use 2.0 for long enough to really grok it, because of the vertigo I  
> get from the sidebar.
> 
> I would like to at least see a Snowglobe 1.4 with the script limit  
> visibility and clothing layer functionality of 2.0 released before  
> abandoning 1.x completely.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe 2.0 update

[Kadah]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I've built v2 on VC90 before, it didn't really run but it built. Main
issue is still that all the libs need to be rebuilt for VC90.

As for cmake and VC100, what version of cmake are you using? I messed
around with building 1.23.4 on VC100 last year and cmake wasn't an issue
after I installed the 2.7 beta and the current 2.8.1 has support for VC100.


On 6/8/2010 4:38 AM, WolfPup Lowenhar wrote:
> Concerning your question about trying to build SG V2 using VS2010 cmake will
> not even make the proj and other needed files so that you can even try to
> build the viewer Using VS2010. As I have all three Visual Studio on my
> windows 7 32-bit system and cannot get it to even build in VS2008. It will
> only build with VS2005.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com
> [mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of
> mala...@tamzap.com
> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 4:09 PM
> To: Ricky; opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com; Philippe (Merov)
> Bossut
> Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe 2.0 update
> 
> Seeing as how the good ole boys at microsoft decided to kill vs08 has anyone
> successfully built with 2010
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Ricky 
> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 12:58:37 
> To: Philippe (Merov) Bossut
> Cc: 
> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe 2.0 update
> 
> I figure that since the particular links I was looking at are marked
> (in bold) with the word "Experimental" I figure that people realize
> that it might be broken...  Even so, I've added a line of warning that
> might help filter out the unhelpful.
> 
> Trunk build links updated on
> https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Snowglobe#Development_Versions
> 
> Ricky
> Cron Stardust
> 
> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Philippe (Merov) Bossut
>  wrote:
>> Hi Ricky,
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 11:17 AM, Ricky  wrote:
>>>
>>> Any particular reason that http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Snowglobe
>>> doesn't get it's experimental "trunk" build updated when these new
>>> builds are released?  The current version up there is 2.0.1.3339
>>> released April 27, 2010.
>>
>> No particular reason other than it needs to be done manually. The reason
>> it's never been automated is that it gives us an opportunity to prevent
> the
>> wide dissemination of possibly bogus builds to unsuspecting casual users
>> (those are trunk versions after all and we have seen the trunk badly
> broken
>> for days at a time in the past). People like you picking up build
>> notifications from @sldev-commit are considered savvy enough to not be
>> outraged if a trunk build fails rapidly.
>>
>>>
>>> If there's no particular reason, I (or whomever gets to it first,) can
>>> update those links.
>>
>> Please do! Wiki updating from the community is always appreciated. Thanks
>> for doing this.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> - Merov
>>
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Re: [opensource-dev] VWR-20006

[Kadah]

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Can't make the current scupties in-world atm, at least without a 3rd
party product atm.

But I do agree with you, building and making stuff with in the world
itself is a core idea of SL. Building in SL is more social than any
other platform. I've been known to "cuddle code" while brainstorming.


On 6/27/2010 10:54 PM, Tigro Spottystripes wrote:
> In my opinion, adding mesh support without decent in world editor would
> be prejudicial to Second Life.
> 
> On 27/6/2010 22:18, Frans wrote:
>> oops, I had sent this message only to Robert by accident.
> 
>> Mesh support is being worked on in secret. The NDA was temporarily
>> lifted last week, by mistake, but in the short time it was lifted some
>> information came out.
>> http://secondslog.blogspot.com/2010/06/nda-on-mesh-uploads-was-temporarly.html
> 
>> Though it does not speak about a Inworld modeller.
> 
>> -Frans
> 
>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 7:06 PM, Robert Martin > > wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Tigro Spottystripes
>> mailto:tigrospottystri...@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> > Hash: SHA512
>> >
>> > I know that part of this would require LL to contribute, i'm bringing
>> > this up in the OSD list because i know somtimes an outside in approach
>> > is possible, perhaps some developers in the community can figure
>> it out
>> > and put it in code without the acquisitions being necessary; so, may i
>> > direct your attention to http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-20006 ?
> 
>> since it seems that the LLM source needed to fix the existing avatar
>> mesh has reached
>> "ark of the covenant" levels then we need to have a very deep toolset
>> to create mesh replacement avatars.
> 
> 
>> --
>> Robert L Martin
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> 
> 
> 
>> -- 
>> Jeroen Frans
>> Virtual World Technology Specialist.
>> VesuviusGroup.com
>> SL: Frans Charming
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [opensource-dev] list for builds from the new snowstorm viewer-development repository?=

[Kadah]

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Why not use the existing one, sldev-comm...@lists.secondlife.com?

On 8/16/2010 10:54 AM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
>   Would it be useful if I set up a one-way mailing list for 
> announcements of build results for the new viewer-development repository?
> 
> How does the name  viewer-development-bui...@lists.secondlife.com sound?
> 
> Given that we're now hosting the repo itself on bitbucket, and they 
> provide rss feeds for repos, is there any need for also having an email 
> list for commits to it?   It's possible to set it up - I just don't know 
> if we need it.
> 
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Re: [opensource-dev] list for builds from the new snowstorm viewer-development repository?=

[Kadah]

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I like getting the commit notices as well, and I can filter them how I
prefer. Though as Oz stated at the meeting, 2 separate lists for builds
and commits would not be a bad idea giving that the number of publicly
visiable commits per day should be increasing soon.


On 8/16/2010 12:42 PM, Zabb65 wrote:
> I'll stop in and say that it would be useful if you used the existing
> mailing list address as well. And would appreciate emails on commits.
> 
> On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 15:32, Lance Corrimal  
> wrote:
>> Am Monday 16 August 2010 schrieb Henri Beauchamp:
>>> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:38:44 -0700, Kadah wrote:
>>>>> Would it be useful if I set up a one-way mailing list for
>>>>> announcements of build results for the new viewer-development
>>>>> repository?
>>>>
>>>> Why not use the existing one, sldev-comm...@lists.secondlife.com?
>>>
>>> Seconded.
>>
>> thirded (is there such a word?)
>>
>> LC
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Kadah]

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On 8/17/2010 4:30 PM, Kelly Linden wrote:
> * IF (and only IF) you use a new viewer AND set a display name (lets say
> to "Andromeda") then other people may see you as Andromeda. Any scripts
> that do llGetDisplayName will get Andromeda. If they do llKey2Name they
> will get Andromeda Quonset. If they do llGetUserName they will get
> Andromeda.Quanset.

The FAQ
(https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Display_Names#Will_Display_Names_affect_scripts_I_have_created_or_bought.3F)
seems to say different. It should be corrected/clarified.


I'm confused, will out usernames keep our existing case, be all over
case, or Have First Letters Capped? Each thing I read seems to state
something different.
ie. myfirstnameisalllowerBUTFORTHIS Lastname
This: myfirstnameisalllowerBUTFORTHIS.Lastname?
Or: myfirstnameisalllowerbutforthis.lastname?
Or this: Myfirstnameisalllowerbutforthis.Lastname?
o.O
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Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement

[Kadah]

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On 8/17/2010 5:14 AM, Aidan Thornton wrote:
> For example, this shows up in the replacement of pie menus with
> standard right-click menus. The big advantage of pie menus is that
> they're fast to use - all the entries are large and easy to hit with
> the mouse. The new right-click menu, on the other hand, has really
> tiny entries that make you hunt with the mouse. Unlike in Second Life,
> in most applications the right-click menu is not intended as the main
> way to interact with the application - anything commonly-used can be
> accessed in another faster way.
+1
I cannot count the number of times I've accidentally clicked the wrong
option on the right-click menu cause my cursor slipped off the tiny 16px
tall area. Pie menus are really good for quick, repeatable actions. The
only problem I had with pies was a small one, the layout was different
if I clicked on my avatar or one of my attachment, make it kinda hard to
take off cloths quickly when attachments were in the way :P
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Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement

[Kadah]

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On 8/18/2010 12:04 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
> If I understood him correctly, what Q seemed to think was the right
> behavior is:
> 
> * The first mouse-down opens the pie centered on the mouse location,
>   so no choice is under the mouse
> * If the choice is a submenu, each new menu is also centered on the
>   mouse
> 
> that way, you are never making a choice within the submenu if you
> accidentally double click, because the center is never a choice.  this
> does mean that the nested menus 'creep', but that has the effect that
> each nested choice is a 'gesture-like' unique series of clicks.

I think he thinks that the proper behavior should have been that the
cursor recenters on the new sub pie menu.

I liked how for something like inspect was down, click, right, and
delete was down, up-right. As long as the item in the submenu in that
spot was either blank or nonharmfull, which it mostly was, I'd have
nearly no problems. Unlike with the context menus used now, I'm always
hunting for the option and frequently hit the wrong one.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement

[Kadah]

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On 8/19/2010 10:16 AM, Henri Beauchamp wrote:
> A smarter approach would be to automatically move the cursor itself to
> the center of the pie menu (without moving the latter to avoid an
> annoying "drifting" effect) when you click on a sub-menu.
> 
> However, I never found the fact that the pie menu was not centered on
> the cursor after a click on a sub-menu item to be an hinderance, since
> the whole idea about pie menus is that you quickly get your "muscle
> memory" trained and don't even have to look at the menu any more after
> you are trained. For example, my "muscles know" that to delete an
> in-world object I must right click on it, then move south, left click
> (for "More >"), and move north east and left click again (for Delete).
> With the new method, I'd simply have to replace "north east" with
> "east" in my muscle memory (which would make me miss quite a number
> of clicks at first, since this memory has been trained and used for
> almost 4 years now, so if you reimplement pie-menus in this new way,
> I'd appreciate a debug option to prevent the auto-recentering of the
> cursor)...

Same here. I would impliment pie menus as 2 debug settings,
UseLegacyPieMenus and LegacyPieMenusDisableAutoCenter.
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Kadah]

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On 8/19/2010 10:15 AM, Daniel Smith wrote:
> And it's not just a display issue.  What happens with chat and im logs?  Are
> they going to only show the displayname?

I have no idea what it will be, but I'm hoping for IMs it will continue
to use the username as the filename for the log, and put both names in
to the local and group chat logs.
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Re: [opensource-dev] no "allow create landmark" in 2.1?

[Kadah]

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On 8/19/2010 10:37 AM, Lance Corrimal wrote:
> is it just my failing eyesight, or is there no "allow create landmark" 
> checkbox in "about land" in 2.1 (snowglobe 2.1.0 r3622) ???

It's not there in 2.1.1.208114 either >_>;
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Re: [opensource-dev] Encrypted chat & third-party servers

[Kadah]

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On 8/25/2010 1:59 PM, Brian McGroarty wrote:
> Has anyone spent time looking at the encrypted chat feature included in
> some third-party viewers? It's my understanding that this contacts
> third-party servers in obtaining and validating keys. Is that correct?
> If so, do these connections share any information about the user that we
> should require to be disclosed per section 4.b of the TPV Policy?[1]
> 
> [1] http://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php#priv4

I don't think OTR does. From what I remember seeing in its source is
that the user has to self-certify that the other user's key is one they
trust. I think that was hacked in later versions of Emerald to not
require as much user internaction, but I hadn't testing it much after
that, I don't use OTR in my viewer code.
I wonder if it was at all part of the close door list of changes they
must make to get relisted. It seems to me that anything on there would
apply just as much to any other TPV as it does to Emerald. Do they get
special (more restrictive?) rules than other TPVs just because its popular?
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Re: [opensource-dev] J2C fast decoder

[Kadah]

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On 8/25/2010 2:06 PM, Robin Cornelius wrote:
> Also in SL usage, (please correct me if i am wrong) when the viewer
> ups the resolution (using discard levels) openjpeg needs to redecode
> the entire image, KDU does not, and the meta data extraction for
> OpenJpeg is also expensive causing a decode, which could probably be
> fixed.

I remember hearing that it was a patent issue, but I could be mistaken.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Encrypted chat & third-party servers

[Kadah]

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On 8/25/2010 3:11 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
>   On 2010-08-25 17:14, Kadah wrote:
>>   Do they get
>> special (more restrictive?) rules than other TPVs just because its popular?
> No.

Good to know, Oz. Thanks.
 Will we get to know what the requested changes were some time soon so
the rest of us can be sure not to run afoul of them in the future? Many
TPVs are either are based off Emerald, use a lot/some of its code, or
duplicates similar features.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Encrypted chat & third-party servers

[Kadah]

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On 8/25/2010 5:44 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
> The changes we've requested primarily concern the re-establishment of
> trust between the Emerald development team, Linden Lab, and the Second
> Life resident community.   If you believe that you're complying with the
> Third Party Viewer Policy, then you're fine.

Oh good, good. Their blog post today made me thing large code changes
were required, which didn't make a whole lot sense. Thanks for clearing
that up for me. :3
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Re: [opensource-dev] Anti-Aliasing

[Kadah]

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On 8/27/2010 3:36 AM, Aimee Linden wrote:
> On 27 Aug 2010, at 02:06, Trilo Byte wrote:
> 
>> > Is it just me, or is anti-aliasing broken in the last couple builds?
> Do you arms and legs look lumpier than normal? If so then it's you ;)
> 
> Quite a large amount of rendering work dropped in one of the latest updates. 
> You're on a Mac right? It seems to be broken on my Mac also :( To get AA 
> working on my Linux box I had to turn _on_ Framebuffer Objects in the 
> Develop>Rendering menu (same as setting the RenderUseFBO debug option to 
> True) but that just freezes rendering on my Mac.
> 
> So yup, it's not you, looks like we broke it at the moment.
> 
> Aimee.

2.1.2.208673 on Win32. Changing the AA setting just has no effect now,
even with relogging, which was required before to change it. Jira for it
already, VWR-17436

On a related note, with my nvidia 9800, 250, or 280 I'm unable to get a
frame rate above 6 with RenderUseFBO or above 4 with RenderDefered.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Removal of the "MultipleAttachments" debug settings ?

[Kadah]

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On 8/27/2010 8:37 AM, Trilo Byte wrote:
> Nyx, I did also notice that if you wear an outfit folder that makes 
> use of mutliple attachments in v2.1.2, it no longer works properly.
> 
> Instead of putting on all the items in the user-specified folder, it
> only puts on the first attachment the viewer gets to.  Any
> additional ones are left un-worn, and must be added to the outfit
> manually, one at a time.

I can verifiy this is the case with 2.1.2.208673. Made a new outfit that
has 2 tails, took everything off, did wear-replace with new outfit. Saw
the first one pop on for a moment then replaced by the 2nd one a moment
later. Wear-add had the same effect.

Kinda defeats the purpose of 2's outfits if it don't work together with
multi-attach :P

Would be nice if I could also put on all items in a folder with
multi-attach. Would be nice for those infrequently used collection of
items that aren't associated to any one outfit.

Its a little confusing now that "add" has different meanings on
different items. "Add" on a single item attaches it without replace,
"add" on a folder/outfit replaces existing on same points.
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[opensource-dev] 2.1.2.208680 installer defaults non-English

[Kadah]

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Not sure if it was intentionally, pero el instalador para la
2.1.2.208680 es moroso a español.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Removal of the "MultipleAttachments" debug settings ?

[Kadah]

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On 8/27/2010 3:03 PM, Altair Sythos Memo wrote:
> dunno if related or not, just asking before open a JIRA now in
> mouselook i see hair and other face attachments (piercing, cigarette,
> hair), is this right?

Me too, I opened a Jira for it; VWR-21002
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Re: [opensource-dev] Removal of the "MultipleAttachments" debug settings ?

[Kadah]

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On 8/30/2010 1:39 PM, Suz Dollar wrote:
> If the point of this is to make people *want* 2.x a lot of 
> nice tags that say 'to see me properly, use viewer 2.x... I have more 
> attachments than you do' might be a good way to go.

It worked for Emerald.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Removal of the "MultipleAttachments" debug settings ?

[Kadah]

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On 8/30/2010 2:04 PM, Altair Sythos Memo wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:44:04 -0700
> Kadah  wrote:
> 
>>> If the point of this is to make people *want* 2.x a lot of 
>>> nice tags that say 'to see me properly, use viewer 2.x... I have
>>> more attachments than you do' might be a good way to go.
>>
>> It worked for Emerald.
> 
> Emerald use a "tweaked" code+xml, only an emerald see correctly another
> emerald user... now there is a "standard", already used by a lot of
> non-linden viewers (is why i'm staring EM blog waiting for the right
> release than stop to see fuzzy attachments fly around sims XD)
> 
> and "no", attachments are a bit feature of emerald, the most is the
> radar, a lot of ppl can save lag using builtin radar in place of a
> laggy hud...
> 
> for sl2 cannot work, why if somebody say you "use [only_one_viewer]"

I know that a lot of people switched to emerald just because of the
multi-attachment hack. It wasn't a good solution to the problem but LL
took so long to do anything about adding new attachment points that this
ended up be norm for a good portion of the grid.

Emerald's multi-attachment works by using the modified avatar_lad.xml (I
think it was based off the one from VWR-489) to duplicate all the
existing points on to unused upper attachment point IDs. This messes
with scripts as the attachment point isn't defined serverside and
requires other users to have the same modified avatar_lad in order not
to see the attachments on these points just floating randomly where the
avatar first rezed for that users.

LL *finally* delivered their solution for more attachment points. They
essentially added "slots" to each attachment point, the actual number of
slots is unknown to me, but it seems to be greater than 2. Attach one
thing and it goes to the first slot, add a second thing to your
appearance that uses the same attachment point and its pushes the first
item, and any others also there, back a slot.

I mention that it pushing the others back cause non-2.x viewers will
only see the last added thing, the top most slot. As far as I know
without testing it again, if they remove the top most item on a
attachment point, 1.x viewers will see nothing on that point, the items
the lower slots do not move back up when the first is removed.

While this is not perfect and 1.x viewers will not see attachment on the
higher slots, this is a bit nicer than some random clothing floating
around. And its likely someone will backport it.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Final build for Snowstorm Sprint 2

[Kadah]

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On 8/31/2010 9:43 AM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
>   On 2010-08-31 10:25, Trilo Byte wrote:
>> I tested this build yesterday, anti-aliasing (an essential feature for SL 
>> photography and shooting machinima, as well as a preferred setting for many 
>> residents) is still broken.  Releasing this would be a significant step 
>> backwards, in my opinion.
> 
> There's a difference between 'releasing' a Development build and other 
> categories of viewers (Project, Beta, or Release; see 
> https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_Types ).
> 
> We actually do not want to apply the 'normal' standard that a 
> Development build can't have any regressions in it - that would make it 
> equivalent to a Beta or Released build.   Clearly, we don't want to 
> promote a build with regressions to one of those higher levels, but 
> putting it out as a Development build with the appropriate caveats is a 
> means of _finding_ those regressions.


There are 2 graphical caveats since the viewer-release merge:
[VWR-17436] Changes to hardware settings (Anti-Alias) in Graphics
preferences shows no change on screen
[VWR-20988] I can see my hair when walking, in 1st person mode
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Re: [opensource-dev] Removal of the "MultipleAttachments" debug settings ?

[Kadah]

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On 9/1/2010 4:09 AM, Argent Stonecutter wrote:
> It wasn't broken historically: it was a prefs setting.
> 
> Also, gamers don't like it the way it is, seems like they want to completely 
> lose the chat bar on hitting enter:
> 
> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-18323
> 
> The current behavior doesn't work well for either camp.

I prefer WASD movement, but the current method has a lot of focus
control issues where enter doesn't always bring focus to the chat bar.
I'm having to use the mouse all the time to do this.
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Re: [opensource-dev] My latest build, objects on self are back in Mouselook

[Kadah]

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Yup, jiras on both since then too. I'm surprised it wasn't listed as a
known issue on the beta.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/ECC-2
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/ECC-3


On 9/28/2010 6:45 PM, Dave Booth wrote:
>   On 9/28/2010 20:41, Ponzu wrote:
>> Just reporting.  Not a big deal.  Wasn't this fixed?
>>
>> Actually, I sort of like it.  My hair hangs over my eyes, and I am 
>> looking out thru my glasses, just like real life 8-)
>>
> 
> I've not seen a fixed daily build - makes using aimed weaponry or 
> piloting a mouselook-steered vehicle nigh impossible. As far as I can 
> tell this one has persisted in all viewers since 2.1
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Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[Kadah]

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Sadly what sim and land owners really need most right now is support.
Anyone that's contacted live support, concierge, or filed a ticket in
the last few months knows what I'm taking about.

Getting support back on track should be priority.

v.v


On 9/28/2010 1:57 AM, Yoz Grahame wrote:
> In which case, we should consider that before we rush to an
> implementation which may end up worsening the problem that land owners
> need fixed.
> 
> It's in everyone's interest to provide something like this. Reducing lag
> is a key part of the "Fast, Easy, Fun" initiative. Giving land owners
> better tools to deal with sim load is a great way to divide-and-conquer
> on the many causes of lag, not to mention making our highest-paying
> customers happier. But if it's worth doing then it's worth doing right,
> and the Land team needs time to design and prioritise it properly.
> 
> -- Yoz
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