People want additional direct mail Was: People that CC mailing lists
Hola, On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:51:54AM -0700, Bob Proulx wrote: > But dumbing things down also causes problems. People should learn > some social graces. Email is one of the basic forms of communication > in our new electronic world. I think this facade does them no favors. > > But mostly because it means that: > > 1. I will get a copy without the mailing list List-* headers. >+ list-reply own't work reliably. >+ Mail filing won't work reliably. Just to make it clear - I am one of those who like to get a direct reply _additionally_ to the list mail. I check lists sometimes only every couple of days or weeks, once i start to interact with a thread i'd like to get replys immediately into my inbox to make shure i can keep the thread going instead of sending a reply days to weeks later. And blaming people sending you a direct mail which you are incapable of replying to (Remember - The header still contains the list address) is like blaming mutt it cant decode ms-tnef natively ... > 2. If my site rejects their direct reply, such as it coming from a >dynamic IP address range, then I won't ever get either message. >The mailing list has no way to know that I did not get a direct reply. >The mailing list may have whitelisted them however. I would >normally receive all mailing list messages because I will have >whitelisted the mailing list. Thats a SMTP/Mailserver issue which is completely offtopic. > I dream of a world where MUAs did The Right Thing. Like mutt! :-) Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: People want additional direct mail Was: People that CC mailing lists
* Florian Lohoff [02-20-13 04:43]: > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:51:54AM -0700, Bob Proulx wrote: > > But dumbing things down also causes problems. People should learn > > some social graces. Email is one of the basic forms of communication > > in our new electronic world. I think this facade does them no favors. > > > > But mostly because it means that: > > > > 1. I will get a copy without the mailing list List-* headers. > >+ list-reply own't work reliably. > >+ Mail filing won't work reliably. > > Just to make it clear - I am one of those who like to get a direct > reply _additionally_ to the list mail. > > I check lists sometimes only every couple of days or weeks, > once i start to interact with a thread i'd like to get replys > immediately into my inbox to make shure i can keep the thread going > instead of sending a reply days to weeks later. > > And blaming people sending you a direct mail which you are incapable > of replying to (Remember - The header still contains the list address) > is like blaming mutt it cant decode ms-tnef natively ... Then it *should* be upon you to adjust your mail-system to provide the *special* provision that *you* desire rather than force an un-needed extra copy upon the "rest of the world". -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.orgPhoto Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net
Re: People want additional direct mail Was: People that CC mailing lists
Incoming from Florian Lohoff:
>
> Just to make it clear - I am one of those who like to get a direct
> reply _additionally_ to the list mail.
Patrick is correct. It should be up to you to *request* a personal
Cc: if you want one. The list volume here is not that big that it's
difficult to keep up with, and nobody NEEDS to actually read it all.
Hit delete for those you want to ignore.
Your way of doing it isn't a big problem for me. It's just an
annoyance here. However, I've seen others for whom this is intensely
annoying. They're the real victims.
It's unnecessary too. mutt + {procmail|mailfilter|imapfilter?} can
split mail efficiently into separate mailboxes and mutt can cycle
automatically through the mailboxes that it notices have new mail.
There's no need for anyone to expect the list or its participants to
do anything special for them.
HTH. :-)
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Re: People want additional direct mail Was: People that CC mailing lists
* On 20 Feb 2013, s. keeling wrote: > Patrick is correct. It should be up to you to *request* a personal > Cc: if you want one. The list volume here is not that big that it's I haven't kept up as much lately with email RFC as I used to, but I'm unaware of any standard means of *requesting* a cc (or of declaring any other reply policy, besides Reply-To:). This is a matter of interpretation, not of denotation. Mail-Followup-To is a good solution, but it is not defined by any RFC or standard, and as such cannot be relied upon as a means of requesting behavior from another party. I would love to agree with you, but lacking such a provision, I can't. In mutt, I always group-reply. If you don't like the copy, you can filter it. If someone else wants the copy, they can't fabricate it, so I make sure they get it. And if you provide MFT, it's honored. -- David Champion • d...@bikeshed.us
Re: People want additional direct mail Was: People that CC mailing lists
Incoming from David Champion:
> * On 20 Feb 2013, s. keeling wrote:
> > Patrick is correct. It should be up to you to *request* a personal
> > Cc: if you want one. The list volume here is not that big that it's
>
> I haven't kept up as much lately with email RFC as I used to, but I'm
> unaware of any standard means of *requesting* a cc (or of declaring
A simple "Please Cc: me" should suffice. It needn't be done
programmatically or automated.
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Re: People want additional direct mail Was: People that CC mailing lists
David Champion wrote: > > I haven't kept up as much lately with email RFC as I used to, but I'm > unaware of any standard means of *requesting* a cc (or of declaring > any other reply policy, besides Reply-To:). Mail-Followup-To: is fairly well supported, though I don't think you'll find it in the RFCs. It also works in cases where lists munge reply-to:. Charles -- --- Charles Cazabon GPL'ed software available at: http://pyropus.ca/software/ ---
Re: People want additional direct mail Was: People that CC mailing lists
Hi, In mutt you can delete an entire thread, without reading it, by pressing Ctrl-d It would be nice if mutt, for example with Ctrl-Shift-d, remembers this after a mutt session and does not present any mail of this thread anymore. Comments about such a feature? matthias PS: The actual thread would have been a candidate for me for pressing Ctrl-Shift-d :-) -- Sent from my FreeBSD netbook Matthias Apitz | - No system with backdoors like Apple/Android E-mail: g...@unixarea.de | - No HTML/RTF in E-mail WWW: http://www.unixarea.de/ | - No proprietary attachments phone: +49-170-4527211 | - Respect for open standards
Re: People want additional direct mail Was: People that CC mailing lists
* On 20 Feb 2013, Charles Cazabon wrote: > David Champion wrote: > > > > I haven't kept up as much lately with email RFC as I used to, but I'm > > unaware of any standard means of *requesting* a cc (or of declaring > > any other reply policy, besides Reply-To:). > > Mail-Followup-To: is fairly well supported, though I don't think you'll find > it in the RFCs. It also works in cases where lists munge reply-to:. As I mentioned in the unquoted part of my mail, it's not in any RFC, and while it's a great feature it's not what I would call "fairly well supported". http://www.leptonite.org/mft/software.html Not in this table: gmail (web) does not; Android mail does not; iOS mail does not; Apple Mail does not; Outlook does not. That is 70% - 80% of the market, depending on how you account for it. http://visual.ly/email-client-market-share-new-stats http://www.campaignmonitor.com/resources/will-it-work/email-clients/ These data are very rough, and typically are tracked by log analysis of web bugs in HTML mail, but I'm comfortable considering clients that don't chase these automatically a very marginal client population. Among those marginal clients, (al)pine remains more popular than mutt, and still quite vocally does not support MFT. I'd wager that Yahoo! and Hotmail don't supoprt it, either. Without exhaustively testing every client on the charts, I'm completely comfortable predicting that MFT is supported by less than 5% of the client market. -- David Champion • d...@bikeshed.us
Re: People want additional direct mail Was: People that CC mailing lists
Hi Florian, On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 07:44:37AM -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote: > * Florian Lohoff [02-20-13 04:43]: > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:51:54AM -0700, Bob Proulx wrote: > > > > Just to make it clear - I am one of those who like to get a direct > > reply _additionally_ to the list mail. > > > > I check lists sometimes only every couple of days or weeks, > > once i start to interact with a thread i'd like to get replys > > immediately into my inbox to make shure i can keep the thread going > > instead of sending a reply days to weeks later. > > Then it *should* be upon you to adjust your mail-system to provide the > *special* provision that *you* desire rather than force an un-needed extra > copy upon the "rest of the world". May I suggest that you train your MDA to check for the References: header is there is a message-id that is like "@pax.zz.de" (I just guess that this is your machine from a message by you) and filter this mail additionally to your INBOX? It would cost you a 5 to 10min development time and save you hours once you never have to request an additional CC from any list. Regards, Andre -- Andre Klärner smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
listing all remote imap boxes
Hi guys, I just found out that I can access my companys exchange-server via mutt and IMAP, so I am now setting up a new mutt-config for getting the mails from there. But I once again stumbled over an old problem: I have to get a list of all remote mailboxes for easier navigation. Last time I did this by running offline-imap against the server and than just ls | grep | sed'ed the way to a usable list. Is there any obvious tool to do a kind of ls on the remote site and put the result to a nice mutt-mailboxes compatible list? Thanks and kind regards, Andre -- Andre Klärner smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: People want additional direct mail Was: People that CC mailing lists
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 05:27:50PM +0100, Matthias Apitz wrote:
Hi,
In mutt you can delete an entire thread, without reading it, by pressing
Ctrl-d
It would be nice if mutt, for example with Ctrl-Shift-d, remembers
this after a mutt session and does not present any mail of this thread
anymore. Comments about such a feature?
matthias
PS: The actual thread would have been a candidate for me for pressing
Ctrl-Shift-d :-)
something like this should work. you can just pipe a message to
the script and add a procmail receipe to do something with
messages in your killfile:
#!/usr/bin/env python
import email
import argparse
import sys
import anydbm
parser = argparse.ArgumentParser(description='check or kill email threads')
parser.add_argument('-c', '--check', action='store_true', help='check if this
message is part of a killed thread')
parser.add_argument('-k', '--kill', action='store_true', help='mark messages in
this thread as killed')
parser.add_argument('-d', '--db', help='specify database to use to store
message ids', required=True)
args = parser.parse_args()
db = anydbm.open(args.db, 'c')
msg = email.message_from_file(sys.stdin)
msgid = msg.get('message-id')
rv = 0
if args.check:
refs = msg.get('references', '').split()
if msgid in db or any((k in db for k in refs)):
db[msgid] = None # add current message in event references are trimmed
else:
rv = 1
elif args.kill:
db[msgid] = None
else:
print >>sys.stderr, 'Must specify either --check or --kill'
rv = 1
db.close()
sys.exit(rv)
mutt
Hello I have need of help I use :SCO open server 5.0.7 I would like to find a mutt with option smtp compiled version How to make Thank you for voting assistance Pierre Darfeuille Iris Technologies 5, rue des chênes 31120 Roquettes Tel : 05 61 72 46 06 & 06 71 53 98 32
Re: mutt
Incoming from Darfeuille.Pierre:
>
> I use :SCO open server 5.0.7
>
> I would like to find a mutt with option smtp compiled version
Where have you looked? Try https://www.ixquick.com/do/search and plug
in "sco mutt mua" (without the quotes).
I don't know if it works or is possible (I only know SCO by
reputation), but others appear to have talked about it. Bon chance.
FYI, my mutt (1.5.21 on Debian testing/wheezy x86_64) came with SMTP
compiled in. Alternatively, are you sure you need that feature? I
incorrectly assumed recently that I did. YMMV. Check your premises.
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Re: People want additional direct mail Was: People that CC mailing lists
On 20Feb2013 10:01, David Champion wrote: | In mutt, I always group-reply. If you don't like the copy, you can | filter it. If someone else wants the copy, they can't fabricate it, so | I make sure they get it. And if you provide MFT, it's honored. Me too. If someone explicitly says "please don't CC me" I try to remember to manually apply that later. -- Cameron Simpson Fatal error! Hit any user to continue... - Phillip Coles
