Re: Narcicism?
On 12/01/11 02:28, John Tate wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly researched crap with no answers contain. If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. John Tate. Note: Yes, it's not my list. John, if you don't mind, I'll give you some advice: Do your homework before posting to the list. Your basic instinct is to click "Send" instead of thinking first. I've lost count of how many of your posts were retracted by yourself, with a big "oops, my bad" or were replied to with RTFM-type responses. I got a kick out of one retraction where you said something like "Sorry, I was drunk." You're obviously new here. Sure, it's a tough crowd at times, but that only happens when people don't bother reading the FAQ, or the man pages, or trying things out for themselves. A lot of people have asked "stupid" questions or said something "dumb" -- myself included -- and got painful responses. I've had my share of facepalm experiences and had my ass handed to me plenty of times, but I deserved it. But you know what? I try to not make a regular occasion of it. It seems you do. I help a lot of people off-list, and I know for a fact many others do the same. I've found through years of experience there are two kinds of people on this list: those that need a little help and pointed in the right direction, and those that need their hands held for every step. Guess which category I put you in? And that's exactly why I've helped you a grand total of zero times. Now you have the gall to come on this list and insult the people that are trying to help you. I don't think there's anyone on this list that sits idly, waiting for an opportunity to "pick on" or "bully" someone. Get a grip, get some thicker skin, and most of all, RTFM first. I guarantee that if you take my advice, you'll find this list to be a very, very valuable resource. Remember, there is a difference between *reading* and *comprehension*. Work a little harder on the latter and I think you'll find you won't be "picked on". Stop playing the victim. You're not the first and it's old. -- Scott McEachern https://www.blackstaff.ca
how much last entries should exist?
Hi list, my server just had a little crash. Currently running: OpenBSD 4.9 GENERIC#477 amd64 After reset I checked "last" and I found only 5 entries. I am wondering I this is normal? Shouldn't there be more entries? The last one is from Wed Nov 30 09:43 - 09:43 (00:00). Could someone plz tell me when a entry gets deleted from "last"? Tia, Greets Elmar
Re: how to find dependencies when building a new kernel
On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 21:05:05 +0100 Jan Stary wrote: > On Nov 30 10:26:46, T. Valent wrote: > > sure will solve what you have understood to be my problem. But what > > really annoys me here is that I'm not taken seriously when I say > > "this isn't an option". Why don't you just believe my words instead > > of permanently speaking about things that I explicitly said are > > impossible? > > Because if someone simply says "this is impossible", it is only > natural to ask "why is that impossible?". How does that annoy you? > > (Solving your problem is impossible. Really. > Don't waste your time asking why.) > > > Did you read my mail in which I said that the hardware cannot be > > changed? A new flashcard would be a change in hardware. > > So the 32MB storage is a CF card? Don't be surprised that > people ask, because it begs the question (no really, it does): > why can't you put a bigger CF card in there that would > just hold GENERIC? No, really: why? Answering this question > will take a few minutes of our time. > > > I think you know > > that. You just don't take my words seriously and keep talking about > > things that I already said are not possible in this project. Why > > discuss this? From my point of view it's not me wasting your time, > > but it's you wasting your time, because you don't really care about > > what I said. > > > > The overall project is about updating multiple systems > > How many multiple systems? > > > that are in > > production. By _just_ using just a software update. Changes in > > hardware are not an option. > > Putting, say, a bigger CF card in them is a change in hardware, > granted. Would that change eliminate the need for the whole process of > maintaining custom kernels and custom stripped down systems? > If not, why? > > > dmesg output of any of these devices would be possible, but like I > > said it's a very stripped down environment. dmesg is not part of > > it. I'd have to setup an old system with dmsg on it, > > So, at some point, you had a system on it that had dmesg(1). > How long does it take to put that system on it again and run > dmesg(1)? (That's not a rhetorical question that wants to be > sarcastic - that's an honest question). Generally, how long > does it take to put a new system in, once it is built? > > > then export the output, just to > > convince you of what I've done in the past. Then, after I've proven > > my point with this dmesg output, we'd be no step further, > > Yes we would: we would know your hardware from OpenBSD's point of > view. > > > because like I > > said often enough now, I'm not interested in a hint like "add this > > line to your config", but I want to learn about what steps to do, > > next time I run into the same problem (which I probably will with > > the next OpenBSD release that I want to migrate the systems to). > > If you can help me by explaining where to look and what to read to > > learn how to build the smallest custom kernels possible, I'd be > > happy. > > You have been told several times already: strip GENERIC down to what > will fit on your system. Start with things you definitely do not need > (sound? wifi?), then continue with the rest. If things break, put > the last thing that you removed back there. It is a way to arrive > at the smallest possible kernel that works for you. Isn't it? What he rather need is to boot GENERIC, then record dmesg, and strip the kernel down according to that dmesg.
Re: Narcicism?
On 12/01/11 02:28, John Tate wrote: I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me and my little mistakes. I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly researched crap with no answers contain. If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. John Tate. Note: Yes, it's not my list. What a huge number of people coming to OpenBSD don't get is the very very different culture here, as compared to the Linux world. I briefly subscribed to some Linux lists several years ago, but dropped them when bombarded with completely undecipherable pleas for help, which usually described nothing relevant but sounded like a bad political bad in its intensity. Newcomers are expected to *read* the documentation and try things, try things several times before asking for help. Squealing for help returns comments of equal usefulness, and possibly comic relief for some people. That the BSD world comes from an academic history shows in terms of the documentation that all the BSDs have, and Linux belies a more active development culture, larger, at the cost of thinking things out, and definitely placing less importance on documentation. It's like oil and water. So it isn't a bug in the OpenBSD crowd, as much as the expectation that people will work on their problems before asking, and to state clearly what the problem is. --STeve Andre'
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 8:28 AM, John Tate wrote: > I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me > and my little mistakes. http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=125312230626856&w=2 > > I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't > seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on > me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch > of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? > > Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or > are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? > > It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly > researched crap with no answers contain. > > If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. > > But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. > > John Tate. > > Note: Yes, it's not my list. > > -- > www.johntate.org
Re: how to find dependencies when building a new kernel
> So: your machine has 32MB of Flash storage that holds the entire > system. On boot, it all gets loaded as a RAMDISK. Right? Doesn't have to do with my question, but: more or less correct. > It certainly sounds interesting. Out of curiosity: what do these > system do? Are their routers? Rocket launchers? These machines are used for measuring and controlling. (In German: Steuerungscomputer). Now come on. I got complaints about "wasting peoples time". Let's not talk about things that have absolutely nothing to do with my problem. >> I can provide a dmesg from a virtual machine > A dmesg from the actual machine would; really, it would. The dmesg I provided is not from one of the production machines, but from a VM on which I wasn't yet able to compile a minimal kernel, too. So if you say the dmesg helps, there you are! If I got a custom kernel on that VM (and would know WHY I had to add the lines that I had to add to get it running), I'm pretty sure, I'd get the kernel running on that embedded system, too. > Because if someone simply says "this is impossible", it is only > natural to ask "why is that impossible?". Might be a question of culture. For me this doesn't sound "natural". If I'm being asked a question and given (detailed?) circumstances, I'd try to answer and take the circumstances as they are. I believe the person asking me might have reasons to tell me that this and that ain't possible, otherwise he wouldn't have said it, right? > (Solving your problem is impossible. Really. > Don't waste your time asking why.) This is the exact kind of answer you have to expect in certain situations. Why should I question the conclusion of an expert that I asked? If I knew better, why should I ask an expert? Say you ask a lawyer about what to do after you've stolen a Picasso and while you tried to sell it somewhere, it caught fire and was burned down. You tell the lawyer that there's no way you can give it back and you need an advice. Would you find it "natural" that the lawyer ignores that you said you cannot give it back and instead keeps on asking questions about where you burnt it, what you burnt it with, how hot the fire was, where the ashes are now and what the painting smelled like? I am an expert for the circumstances of this very defined little problem I have. I was seeking for help to find an answer to the question "Which drivers are required for proper system functioning". That's it. I doubt that this is a question that cannot be answered. And I doubt that answering this question has to do with the hardware or what it is used for. > So the 32MB storage is a CF card? Don't be surprised that > people ask, because it begs the question (no really, it does): > why can't you put a bigger CF card in there that would > just hold GENERIC? No, really: why? Answering this question > will take a few minutes of our time. These machines (>100) are not on site here. The flash mem is inside a box which the people who run the box would have to screw open. The one reason that should stop all discussion about this: The project goal is to update existing systems by software only. Ever been given a project and then tried to discuss the project goals because you didn't find the solution (required lines in the config) within 3 days? I'm sure I can solve this since I have been able to in the past. I was just seeking for help to maybe find a quicker and more structured way than "fiddling" around with the config. > How long does it take to put that system on it again and run > dmesg(1)? (That's not a rhetorical question that wants to be > sarcastic - that's an honest question). Generally, how long > does it take to put a new system in, once it is built? That would be a second step. I'd need a running kernel on this test machine from which I gave the dmesg already, anyway. So until I don't have a running minimal kernel on this VM, it's not worth the effort. If I then don't get the kernel running on the production machine, that would be a point at which it would make sense to get the dmesg output of the production machines. But I'm not there yet. > You have been told several times already: strip GENERIC down to what > will fit on your system. Start with things you definitely do not need > (sound? wifi?), then continue with the rest. If things break, put > the last thing that you removed back there. It is a way to arrive > at the smallest possible kernel that works for you. Isn't it? That's the way I've done it in the past (since OpenBSD 3.5). Because this is a lot of work to be done each time I'd update to a new OpenBSD version (which I admit I haven't done with every release), I was thinking I'd better try to understand what is really required at minimum. And then do it the other way round: Start with an empty file and add the entries I found to be required. To achieve this goal, I asked you folks. What I've learned now from this discussion is: Either there is no way to do it bottom up, or you folks
Re: Packet filter log tools
On Thu, Dec 01, 2011 at 12:23:30PM +1100, John Tate wrote: > What tools can you guys recommend for browsing through a pf log? GUI not > needed, ideally, something a bit like webalizer that spits out HTML. If no > such thing exists, perhaps I should make one, I am looking for a project. pf logs are written to be viewed via tcpdump, and it's a fairly trivial excercise to produce text output that will be acceptable for tools designed for syslog-like formats. It's a common topic in my tutorials, variations have been mentioned various places on-line (and it's in a certain book). -- Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/ "Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic" delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
Re: how to find dependencies when building a new kernel
On 2011 Dec 01 (Thu) at 09:44:25 +0100 (+0100), T. Valent wrote: :> You have been told several times already: strip GENERIC down to what :> will fit on your system. Start with things you definitely do not need :> (sound? wifi?), then continue with the rest. If things break, put :> the last thing that you removed back there. It is a way to arrive :> at the smallest possible kernel that works for you. Isn't it? : :That's the way I've done it in the past (since OpenBSD 3.5). Please compare the values you used in the previous release (I'm guessing 4.9), vs what you are attempting in this release. Since users (and developers) pretty much /only/ use GENERIC, there are many "options" which are not optional. We don't look for them, and many of them are required for proper use. Essentially, you are one of the very very few that does this. The only advice we can give is to do the top-down method of stripping out options. I know you don't want to do it, but it is what it is. -- Adolescence, n.: The stage between puberty and adultery.
Re: how to find dependencies when building a new kernel
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:09:25PM +, Stuart Henderson wrote: > On 2011-11-29, Torsten Valentin wrote: > >> welcome to the "ignore" list of many developers. You aren't even > >> following directions on how to hurt yourself properly without wasting > >> people's time. > > > > I always found that people waste my time when they write explanations > > and tons of bla bla that does not have to do with the issue itself, > > instead of just writing about what the problem really is. > > > > Because of the permanent repeating of "USE THE GENERIC KERNEL" instead > > of answering any questions that have to do with my problem: > > That's because your problem is not worth wasting other people's time > on solving if you aren't prepared to do it yourself. If you really want that, tell us how much you're prepared to spend, maybe someone would be willing to sell you time to solve that very specific problem since obviously, no OpenBSD developer wants to do it for free, as it's considered a waste of time that could otherwise benefit the project for useful purposes...
Re: Narcicism?
On 2011-12-01 08.28, John Tate wrote:
> I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me
> and my little mistakes.
> I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't
> seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on
> me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch
> of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences?
(Ok, this turned out to be quite a long text, but if you truly want to
know why things are the way they are, please read all of it anyway.)
My experience is that this is without a doubt one of the most competent,
matter-of-fact and fun, in a unixy sort of way, bunch of people I've
ever been around (and I haven't even met anyone in person yet).
I have never, not once, been met with snarky remarks, disrespect, bad
advice, been ignored, bashed, beaten, humiliated or anything of the sort.
Sure, I've had ideas, patches and suggestions thouroughly dissected and
sometimes declared not good enough, but I'd expect nothing less than
the highest standards being applied to whatever is submitted for review.
The way to handle that is to learn from the experience and submit better
stuff next time, not taking it as a personal insult.
The one and only reason people who come on to the list from nowhere,
name unknown to the community, gets bashed is THEY DIDN'T DO THEIR
HOMEWORK FIRST. It is written just about everywhere, so the only way
one could possibly miss the lessons about how to behave on this list
is to not even bother to look.
Let me give you an example you might be able to relate to, because it
involves you:
A while ago you asked about a problem with mounting an NFS drive. After
some questions back-and-forth with a few people I chipped in with this
diagnosis, also arrived at by others:
8<8<8<8<8<8< (cut)
Your mountd and/or portmap most likely isn't running.
Have you followed the instructions in the FAQ? If not, backtrack
all your efforts, read up on what to do and try again.
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq6.html#NFS
man portmap
man nfsd
man mountd
man exports
8<8<8<8<8<8< (cut)
Your reply:
8<8<8<8<8<8< (cut)
Sorry I should have posted. mountd, portmap, and also the appropriate
services are running on the server portmap and nfsd.
8<8<8<8<8<8< (cut)
Then then next day, you wrote, problem solved:
8<8<8<8<8<8< (cut)
mountd was unhappy with my /etc/exports and wasn't starting. I truly
wish mountd checked the environment to see where I was running it from
and just told me with stdout, but for whatever clever unix reasons
does not.
8<8<8<8<8<8< (cut)
What this tells me is this:
* you don't listen to advice (several people including me told you
a service wasn't running, yet you didn't actually CHECK)
* you don't do your homework (several people also gave you sound
reading advice, which you apparently ignored)
* you do sloppy work (since mountd actually WASN'T running on your
system, which you failed to check even when pointed towards the
likely solution by several people, you ended up misleading all who
tried to help)
* you're blaming the system for your shortcomings ("I truly wish
mountd...bla bla bla...") instead of learning to do things right
from the beginning, using the truly outstanding documentation that
sets OpenBSD apart from *everything* else on the market.
* you're not respectful of other people's time and effort, which
you apparently expect them to devote to YOU for free, while also
obviously reserving the right to take offense when they do
WHY should anyone spend even a minute of his or her time to help
you, given that you're not even prepared to do a minimum amount
of homework yourself, let alone listen to advice from people who
actually know what they're talking about?
Even so, I've been surprised how civil and courteous people here
have been towards you and your numerous problems. Not only don't
I agree with your general observations and criticism, as far as
I can tell they don't even apply in your own case.
Regards,
/Benny
> Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or
> are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever?
>
> It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly
> researched crap with no answers contain.
>
> If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me.
>
> But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it.
>
> John Tate.
>
> Note: Yes, it's not my list.
>
--
internetlabbet.se / work: +46 8 551 124 80 / "Words must
Benny Lofgren/ mobile: +46 70 718 11 90 / be weighed,
/ fax:+46 8 551 124 89/not counted."
/
Re: how to find dependencies when building a new kernel
@Gregory > What he rather need is to boot GENERIC, then record dmesg, and strip > the kernel down according to that dmesg. That is exactly what I've done and this led me to my first posting here, because it generally worked fine, but only to a certain extend. It didn't work completely. Something is still missing. With the help of Andres Perara I got one step further, means, I found one more dependency. After I could not find the dependency of the dependency, he pointed me to this: > "The npx driver is required for proper system functioning regardless > of whether or not an NPX is present." > > so there's no 1:1 mapping between the devices you have and the ones > you may need included in the kernel config. could potentially apply to > other drivers So, unfortunately, it's not as easy as you and I thought. @Peter > Please compare the values > you used in the previous release (I'm guessing 4.9), vs what you are > attempting in this release. Unfortunately I have to admit that I was a bit lazy and did not update for quite a while. The latest kernel config files I stripped down were from 4.3. So nearly 4 years ago. And even then I was "just" stripping down as much as was obvious to me would not be needed for me. I continued removing parts of the config until my goal was reached to have a small enough kernel. Now the kernel is much bigger than in 4.3 so I need to get rid of more stuff than I had to before. So comparing the config files could maybe help a bit, but won't generally solve my problem. > Since users (and developers) pretty much /only/ use GENERIC, there > are many "options" which are not optional. We don't look for them, > and many of them are required for proper use. Yeah, I know and I don't think that this is a problem with OpenBSD. However, I'm in an unusual situation not comparable to the standard user or developer. I have a very special demand. I'm asking if anybody can tell me anything about how to find out which "optional" parameters aren't actually really "optional". > Essentially, you are one of the very very few that does this. I agree here. > The > only advice we can give is to do the top-down method of stripping > out options. I know you don't want to do it, but it is what it is. Nah, it's not that I don't want to do it. It's just that I was searching for a better way. It seems there is none. Which is OK with me. Just asking. @marc > If you really want that, tell us how much you're prepared to spend, maybe > someone would be willing to sell you time to solve that very specific problem > since obviously, no OpenBSD developer wants to do it for free, as it's > considered a waste of time that could otherwise benefit the project for > useful purposes... Well, I'd be ready to spend money for this, if that would mean a future change in the kernels config files in a way that mandatory options are marked as such. But that to happen is very unlikely. So it would only be a solution for 5.0 and it may happen that with 5.1 there is a new mandatoy driver which depends on another driver that's included in GENERIC but not in my configs and then I'd have to start all over. So thanks for the offer, but I'm not afraid of working my way through this. I was always just asking if there might be a more clever way which I just didn't know. Regards, T.
Re: how to find dependencies when building a new kernel
On Thu, Dec 01, 2011 at 12:08:38PM +0100, T. Valent wrote: > @marc > > If you really want that, tell us how much you're prepared to spend, maybe > > someone would be willing to sell you time to solve that very specific > > problem > > since obviously, no OpenBSD developer wants to do it for free, as it's > > considered a waste of time that could otherwise benefit the project for > > useful purposes... > > Well, I'd be ready to spend money for this, if that would mean a future > change in the kernels config files in a way that mandatory options are > marked as such. But that to happen is very unlikely. So it would only be > a solution for 5.0 and it may happen that with 5.1 there is a new > mandatoy driver which depends on another driver that's included in > GENERIC but not in my configs and then I'd have to start all over. So > thanks for the offer, but I'm not afraid of working my way through this. > I was always just asking if there might be a more clever way which I > just didn't know. Ok, so I'll bite and give you a hint, just to end this thread. Use the config from RAMDISK as a starting point. It will produce a useable, small kernel. It wil have a ramdisk as root, but that should be easy to change. Of course drivers for your hardware might be missing, but at least you have a compiling kernel. But be warned: RAMDISK kernels miss some stuff you might actually need or want. Can we end this now? -Otto
Re: how to find dependencies when building a new kernel
Otto, thanks for your hint. > Can we end this now? I thought I had initiated the end of this thread this morning by writing: > I'm happy that some of you took the time and tried to explain over > and over again what you thought was best for me. I really appreciate the > good will. But I have to admit I cannot resist answering if someone comments on my mail. :-)
Re: pf and includes
On 2011-11-30 16:14, Guido Tschakert wrote: > > How about a definition.conf with all your (Name,IP-Adress)-Pairs which > is included first in your pf.conf, so your vlan.confs only include > the rules but no definitions. > > guido > Thanks, this is probably the way to do it. Sometimes we move vlans between firewalls and then it can be good to remove the rules, but still keep some macros. I'm also planning to have the same set of variables on all 10 firewalls so that the only difference between them will be the rules files. //Peter
Re: pf and includes
On 2011-11-30 20:20, Adriaan wrote: > > You could use a Makefile to concatenate a pf.conf from separate files. > This can give more flexibility than provided by "include" : Thank you very much for your elaborate solution. To keep things a little less complex, I will probably go with includes and keep all the macros and tables in one big file shared on all firewalls. //Peter
Re: [5.0] pkg_add too many FTP connections
if this goes via ftp-proxy(8), you can sometimes expect problems like this, because ftp-proxy does not correctly handle the SYNCH sequence required to abort connections mid-stream. I generally suggest using http for pkg_add -u anyway though, it is usually *way* faster. On 2011-11-30, Patrick Lamaiziere wrote: > Hello, > > I'm trying to update packages with pkg_add via ftp : > > # pkg_add -ui > Error from > ftp://ftp.irisa.fr/pub/OpenBSD/5.0/packages/amd64/gperf-3.0.4.tgz 421 > There are too many connections from your internet address. ftp: Can't > connect or login to host `ftp.irisa.fr' > Error from > ftp://ftp.irisa.fr/pub/OpenBSD/5.0/packages/amd64/gtar-1.26p0.tgz 421 > There are too many connections from your internet address. ftp: Can't > connect or login to host `ftp.irisa.fr' > ... > > Is there a way to limit the number of FTP connections for pkg_add? > > Thanks, regards.
Re: how to find dependencies when building a new kernel
* T. Valent [2011-12-01 10:19]: > > It certainly sounds interesting. Out of curiosity: what do these > > system do? Are their routers? Rocket launchers? > These machines are used for measuring and controlling. (In German: > Steuerungscomputer). Now come on. I got complaints about "wasting > peoples time". Let's not talk about things that have absolutely nothing > to do with my problem. "out of curiosity" was pretty clear, no? isn't it kinda natural that people are interested in uncommon use cases of the OS they write / are part of the community? > >> I can provide a dmesg from a virtual machine > > A dmesg from the actual machine would; really, it would. > The dmesg I provided is not from one of the production machines, but > from a VM on which I wasn't yet able to compile a minimal kernel, too. > So if you say the dmesg helps, there you are! still doesn't help a bit for figuring out what you might need on your production system. > > Because if someone simply says "this is impossible", it is only > > natural to ask "why is that impossible?". > Might be a question of culture. For me this doesn't sound "natural". If > I'm being asked a question and given (detailed?) circumstances, I'd try > to answer and take the circumstances as they are. I believe the person > asking me might have reasons to tell me that this and that ain't > possible, otherwise he wouldn't have said it, right? people often incorrectly assume an "impossible" is a given. when it isn't really. and instead of stupid ways to work around the problem you can give them a beter solution. your situation is partially exactly that, see below. > Say you ask a lawyer about what to do after you've stolen a Picasso and > while you tried to sell it somewhere, it caught fire and was burned > down. You tell the lawyer that there's no way you can give it back and > you need an advice. Would you find it "natural" that the lawyer ignores > that you said you cannot give it back and instead keeps on asking > questions about where you burnt it, what you burnt it with, how hot the > fire was, where the ashes are now and what the painting smelled like? the lawyer would care about the "why is it impssible to give back". and your answers to the "why?" aren't as convincing as a "can't give back anytjing but the ashes". > > So the 32MB storage is a CF card? Don't be surprised that > > people ask, because it begs the question (no really, it does): > > why can't you put a bigger CF card in there that would > > just hold GENERIC? No, really: why? Answering this question > > will take a few minutes of our time. > These machines (>100) are not on site here. The flash mem is inside a > box which the people who run the box would have to screw open. so. the decision to employ such a crippled system instead of using bigger flash was a bad one. you can try to work around that or draw the right conclusion - the extra cost for a flash card of a reasonable size, yes even hundreds of cases, can't be cheaper than the (not free) work time it takes you to build your strange images. now with a reasonable flash where you could just use mostly-standard kernels... of course that doesn't help you with your installed base. the question wether it is really a clever idea to invest a lot of time to build a system that fits in 32M (repeatedly, not just once) versus upgrading flash - which, yes, costs money too - is a valid one. > Ever been given a > project and then tried to discuss the project goals because you didn't > find the solution (required lines in the config) within 3 days? when the goals were stupid (and too specific, the real goal was usually another from which the wrong conclusions lead to the "project goals"), yes, repeatedly. a good move. > > You have been told several times already: strip GENERIC down to what > > will fit on your system. Start with things you definitely do not need > > (sound? wifi?), then continue with the rest. If things break, put > > the last thing that you removed back there. It is a way to arrive > > at the smallest possible kernel that works for you. Isn't it? > That's the way I've done it in the past (since OpenBSD 3.5). Because > this is a lot of work to be done each time I'd update to a new OpenBSD > version (which I admit I haven't done with every release), I was > thinking I'd better try to understand what is really required at > minimum. And then do it the other way round: Start with an empty file > and add the entries I found to be required. To achieve this goal, I > asked you folks. you have been given the answer repeatedly: start with GENERIC(.MP) and start stripping. you don't like the answer, but that doesn't make it wrong or bad or anything like that. > What I've learned now from this discussion is: Either there is no way to > do it bottom up, or you folks don't know it either. what do you expect? us explaining you every single line in GENERIC? ridiculous. offload YOUR job to the community. awesome. that rightly fails. and ye
Re: how to find dependencies when building a new kernel
* Henning Brauer [2011-12-01 13:21]: > the extra cost for a flash card of a reasonable > size, yes even hundreds of cases, can't be cheaper than the (not free) > work time it takes you to build your strange images. err... that is pretty much the opposite of what I wanted to say. "can be cheaper" of course. can easily. -- Henning Brauer, h...@bsws.de, henn...@openbsd.org BS Web Services, http://bsws.de, Full-Service ISP Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services. Dedicated Servers, Root to Fully Managed Henning Brauer Consulting, http://henningbrauer.com/
sendmail(failed)
Hi I upgraded my mailserver to OpenBSD 5.0 Now at startup i have : Starting Network Daemons : sshd sendmail(failed) inetd failed ? why ? Normal ? And in rc.local we have a script that execute postfix with the option set-permissions If i do : netstat -anf inet ; i can see that the box listen well in 25 587 ... smtp ports If i remove : sendmail_flags="-bd -q30m" in /etc/rc.conf.local restart the computer and try manually : sendmail -bd -q30m tell me that postfix is running. If i remove : sendmail_flags="-bd -q30m" in /etc/rc.conf.local and also remove the script in rc.local (needed to start postfix) ; restart the box and try manually : sendmail -bd -q30m, things works well, therefore, just after that, postfix start automatically. So ? Thank you very much for your help. Wesley.
Re: problem making IPv6 address from rtadvd prefix
On 2011-11-30, Douglas Maus wrote: > Followup: > (sorry for unconventional thread posting and the delay - > learning OpenBSD is my very late night hobby > so I'm not subscribed to the misc list) If you post from gmane's web interface, it will keep the references etc intact, which makes it easier to follow the thread. > stu wrote: >>no dmesg. > > okay - sorry - I've put it at the bottom of this post > (always seems to me like a waste of electrons) That is less important than the time of people who are trying to help. :) >>I suspect some re(4) don't do multicast correctly. does it start >>working if you leave tcpdump running on the interface? > > When I let tcpdump run for a couple minutes before to snag the route > solicitation and advertisement - no help. > How long of a time are you suggesting? Yes that would do the trick (in some cases the nic may need to be in promiscuous mode while the advertisement is received; also in some other cases it may be necessary that it is *not* in promiscuous mode)... > bios0: Supermicro X7SLA ...but I can confirm the realtek nic on those does handle multicast OK with the OpenBSD re(4) driver. >>for your obfuscated MAC addresses, did you just change them in the >>email or did you set them on the nic with ifconfig lladdr? > > no, I did not set them with ifconfig > I just fudged them in the email to hide my MAC > (don't most people do that - make up DEAD:BEEF:CAFE:BABE etc?) Only people who want to make it a bit harder for others to help them ;) (sometimes people use lladdr or similar to change the actualy address on the nice and might inadvertently flip the U/L or multicast bits of the address). (and if you're using IPv6 SLAAC, you'll likely be sending that mac address to all sorts of places anyway...) > here's my rtsol > $ sudo rtsol -d re0 > checking if re0 is ready... > re0 is ready > send RS on re0, whose state is 2 > received RA from fe80::00a1:b1ff:fea1:b1e1 on re0, state is 2 > stop timer for re0 > there is no timer that looks right > It seems to see the RA > however, this doesn't say anything about processing the prefix. > Is there any toggle/flag to get it to output debug info about the prefix? I would watch output from 'tcpdump -nire0 -s1500 -Xvvv icmp6' while doing the rtsol -d re0, you should see something like this:- # tcpdump -nitrunk0 -s1500 -Xvvv icmp6 tcpdump: listening on trunk0, link-type EN10MB tcpdump: WARNING: compensating for unaligned libpcap packets 12:29:33.242725 fe80::21b:21ff:fe2d:f70c > ff02::2: icmp6: router solicitation (src lladdr: 00:1b:21:2d:f7:0c) (len 16, hlim 255) : 6000 0010 3aff fe80 `.:. 0010: 021b 21ff fe2d f70c ff02 ..!..-.. 0020: 0002 8500 4a84 ..J. 0030: 0101 001b 212d f70c !-.. 12:29:33.727694 fe80::20d:b9ff:fe17:cc4 > ff02::1: icmp6: router advertisement(chlim=64, router_ltime=1800, reachable_time=0, retrans_time=0)(src lladdr: 00:0d:b9:17:0c:c4)(prefix info: LA valid_ltime=2592000, preferred_ltime=604800, prefix=2001:4b10:1002:100::/64) (len 56, hlim 255) : 6000 0038 3aff fe80 `8:. 0010: 020d b9ff fe17 0cc4 ff02 0020: 0001 8600 1fa5 4000 0708 @... 0030: 0101 000d b917 0cc4 0040: 0304 40c0 0027 8d00 0009 3a80 ..@..':. 0050: 2001 4b10 1002 0100 .K. > mherrb further suggested: >>But you may have a crappy ethernet switch or hub in the path that >>blocks or damages multicast frames. I've had such a device it the >>past. Replacing it by a little more expensive switch fixed my v6 SLAAC >>issues. ...and sometimes the expensive switches need special config ;)
Re: usb device causes system crash (ucomstart: null oxfer)
On 2011-11-30, Daniel Gracia wrote: > At the very least you're seeing some errors. In my case, the USB/serial > adapters -uticom, uftdi and uplcom- would fail without notice. Ports > would open, but with no TX/RX. Detaching/reattaching won't bring them > back to live; only rebooting. > > If your project has deadline, search for a PCI/ePCI serial board and enjoy! careful with some of the PCIe boards though, OXPCIE95x aren't supported by the current puc(4) driver (it's fairly easy to get them partially working but the port speeds will be wrong and you won't get access to certain speeds).
Re: how to find dependencies when building a new kernel
On Thu, Dec 01, 2011 at 09:44:25AM +0100, T. Valent wrote: > > So: your machine has 32MB of Flash storage that holds the entire > > system. On boot, it all gets loaded as a RAMDISK. Right? > > Doesn't have to do with my question, but: more or less correct. > > > > It certainly sounds interesting. Out of curiosity: what do these > > system do? Are their routers? Rocket launchers? > > These machines are used for measuring and controlling. (In German: > Steuerungscomputer). Now come on. I got complaints about "wasting > peoples time". Let's not talk about things that have absolutely nothing > to do with my problem. Every little bit helps when you are attempting to attract help! Working on a device that will measure and control atomic energy plants to make Fukashima's impossible may well elicit more interest and thus potential solutions than a device measuring and controlling an espresso machine to produce a perfect cup of espresso. Or visa versa. Reluctance to describe the device can be taken as proving it is a NSA/Mossad/etc project to finally measure and control all communications. It seems well established by now that there is no magic bullet for your problem, since it is a problem few if anyone has had to address before within the constraints you have described. Ken
Re: sendmail(failed)
> Change in startup procedure for Postfix and exim: The base OS has moved
> to using scripts in /etc/rc.d to start all daemons. The script for
> sendmail does not function fully for alternative MTAs (in particular it
> will display "failed" at startup, although the daemon will still be
> started, and "/etc/rc.d/sendmail reload" or "...stop" will not work as
> expected). If you were using Postfix or exim and starting it using the
> standard method of setting sendmail_flags in rc.conf.local, you should
> set sendmail_flags=NO and start the relevant daemon via pkg_scripts,
e.g.
>
> pkg_scripts="${pkg_scripts} postfix"
I'm agree, but how to start sendmail with pkg_scripts using flags : "-bd
-q30m" ??
Thank you for your reply.
Wesley.
Re: sendmail(failed)
On Thu, Dec 01, 2011 at 05:09:47PM +0400, Wesley M. wrote:
> > Change in startup procedure for Postfix and exim: The base OS has moved
> > to using scripts in /etc/rc.d to start all daemons. The script for
> > sendmail does not function fully for alternative MTAs (in particular it
> > will display "failed" at startup, although the daemon will still be
> > started, and "/etc/rc.d/sendmail reload" or "...stop" will not work as
> > expected). If you were using Postfix or exim and starting it using the
> > standard method of setting sendmail_flags in rc.conf.local, you should
> > set sendmail_flags=NO and start the relevant daemon via pkg_scripts,
> e.g.
> >
> > pkg_scripts="${pkg_scripts} postfix"
>
> I'm agree, but how to start sendmail with pkg_scripts using flags : "-bd
> -q30m" ??
pkg_scripts are, as the name suggests, only for packages.
sendmail is part of the base system and is not a package.
What is it you're trying to do exactly, I'm totally confused whether you are
trying to start postfix or sendmail.
--
Antoine
Re: how to find dependencies when building a new kernel
> It seems well established by now that there is no magic bullet for your > problem, since it is a problem few if anyone has had to address before > within the constraints you have described. This is a good summary for that quite long thread. Again, thanks to everybody! I really do appreciate all your contributions. T.
Re: mplayer problems
even after latest kernel, userland, xenocara AND ports trees? please redirect ports stuff to ports@ in future On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 10:17 PM, Luis Useche wrote: > Hi Guys, > > Is anyone having problems lately with mplayer? After my last update of > packages mplayer alternates between these two errors: > > (0)$ mplayer > mplayer: can't load library 'liborc-0.4.so.4.0' > (0)$ mplayer > mplayer: can't load library 'libenca.so.0.0' > > I also tried to compile from ports without success: > > Missing library for orc-0.4>=0.0 > > Any advice? > > Thanks, > Luis.
Re: how to find dependencies when building a new kernel
On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 12:08:38 +0100 "T. Valent" wrote: > Yeah, I know and I don't think that this is a problem with OpenBSD. > However, I'm in an unusual situation not comparable to the standard user > or developer. I have a very special demand. I'm asking if anybody can > tell me anything about how to find out which "optional" parameters > aren't actually really "optional". What size do you need to get your kernel down to? If mines small enough I could share mine but if your having this much difficulty then I imagine you need to go further than what I do.
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Scott McEachern wrote: > On 12/01/11 02:28, John Tate wrote: > >> I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me >> and my little mistakes. >> >> I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't >> seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on >> me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal >> bunch >> of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? >> > I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still learning. > >> Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or >> are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? >> > Well I get messages that are worthless and seem to be insults. > >> It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly >> researched crap with no answers contain. >> >> If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. >> >> But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. >> >> John Tate. >> >> Note: Yes, it's not my list. >> >> > John, if you don't mind, I'll give you some advice: Do your homework > before posting to the list. Your basic instinct is to click "Send" instead > of thinking first. I've lost count of how many of your posts were > retracted by yourself, with a big "oops, my bad" or were replied to with > RTFM-type responses. I got a kick out of one retraction where you said > something like "Sorry, I was drunk." > > You're obviously new here. Sure, it's a tough crowd at times, but that > only happens when people don't bother reading the FAQ, or the man pages, or > trying things out for themselves. A lot of people have asked "stupid" > questions or said something "dumb" -- myself included -- and got painful > responses. I've had my share of facepalm experiences and had my ass handed > to me plenty of times, but I deserved it. > > But you know what? I try to not make a regular occasion of it. It seems > you do. > > I help a lot of people off-list, and I know for a fact many others do the > same. I've found through years of experience there are two kinds of people > on this list: those that need a little help and pointed in the right > direction, and those that need their hands held for every step. Guess > which category I put you in? And that's exactly why I've helped you a > grand total of zero times. > > Now you have the gall to come on this list and insult the people that are > trying to help you. I don't think there's anyone on this list that sits > idly, waiting for an opportunity to "pick on" or "bully" someone. Get a > grip, get some thicker skin, and most of all, RTFM first. > > I guarantee that if you take my advice, you'll find this list to be a > very, very valuable resource. Remember, there is a difference between > *reading* and *comprehension*. Work a little harder on the latter and I > think you'll find you won't be "picked on". > > Stop playing the victim. You're not the first and it's old. > > -- > Scott McEachern > > https://www.blackstaff.ca > > -- www.johntate.org
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:25 PM, John Tate wrote: > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Scott McEachern wrote: > >> On 12/01/11 02:28, John Tate wrote: >> >>> I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me >>> and my little mistakes. >>> >>> I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't >>> seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on >>> me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal >>> bunch >>> of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? >>> >> > I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru > and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and > Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put > up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I > started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that > age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I > know a hell of a lot See the subject: "Narcicism" And, btw, the correct spelling is "Narcissism": as a guru, this is something you should already have known ;) ciao, David
Re: Narcicism?
On 12/01/2011 05:25 PM, John Tate wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Scott McEachern wrote: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still learning. You forgot to list modesty there as well, John. -- Rares Aioanei
Re: sendmail(failed)
On 2011-12-01, Wesley M. wrote: > Hi > > I upgraded my mailserver to OpenBSD 5.0 > > Now at startup i have : > Starting Network Daemons : sshd sendmail(failed) inetd > failed ? why ? Normal ? You missed following some steps in the upgrade guide. http://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade50.html#Pkgup > And in rc.local we have a script that execute postfix with the option > set-permissions You shouldn't need set-permissions.
Re: Narcicism?
On Dec 02 02:25:06, John Tate wrote: > I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru > and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and > Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put > up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I > started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that > age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I > know a hell of a lot Why don't you dig me? I dig you But you don't dig me I don't understand what it is I had my car re-upholstered I got my hair processed I got a nice pompadour job on it I bought a new pair of shoes I got some new khakis and I met you And we went out to get a Coca-Cola...
Re: Narcicism?
2011/12/1 John Tate > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Scott McEachern > wrote: > > > On 12/01/11 02:28, John Tate wrote: > > > >> I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of > me > >> and my little mistakes. > >> > >> I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't > >> seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking > on > >> me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal > >> bunch > >> of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? > >> > > > I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru > and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and > Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put > up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I > started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that > age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I > know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still > learning. > One thing to point it out: When you are a real Hacker, you don`t call yourself one, people do. When you are a real Guru, you don`t call yourself one, people do. I dont have a big knowledge of OpenBSD, i must say i am just starting, but the first lesson I learneddon`t make stupid questions on a list or i will get a paybackIn some way i understand your frustration... Peace. > > > > > >> Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying > or > >> are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? > >> > > Well I get messages that are worthless and seem to be insults. > > > > >> It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you > poorly > >> researched crap with no answers contain. > >> > >> If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. > >> > >> But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. > >> > >> John Tate. > >> > >> Note: Yes, it's not my list. > >> > >> > > John, if you don't mind, I'll give you some advice: Do your homework > > before posting to the list. Your basic instinct is to click "Send" > instead > > of thinking first. I've lost count of how many of your posts were > > retracted by yourself, with a big "oops, my bad" or were replied to with > > RTFM-type responses. I got a kick out of one retraction where you said > > something like "Sorry, I was drunk." > > > > You're obviously new here. Sure, it's a tough crowd at times, but that > > only happens when people don't bother reading the FAQ, or the man pages, > or > > trying things out for themselves. A lot of people have asked "stupid" > > questions or said something "dumb" -- myself included -- and got painful > > responses. I've had my share of facepalm experiences and had my ass > handed > > to me plenty of times, but I deserved it. > > > > But you know what? I try to not make a regular occasion of it. It seems > > you do. > > > > I help a lot of people off-list, and I know for a fact many others do the > > same. I've found through years of experience there are two kinds of > people > > on this list: those that need a little help and pointed in the right > > direction, and those that need their hands held for every step. Guess > > which category I put you in? And that's exactly why I've helped you a > > grand total of zero times. > > > > Now you have the gall to come on this list and insult the people that are > > trying to help you. I don't think there's anyone on this list that sits > > idly, waiting for an opportunity to "pick on" or "bully" someone. Get a > > grip, get some thicker skin, and most of all, RTFM first. > > > > I guarantee that if you take my advice, you'll find this list to be a > > very, very valuable resource. Remember, there is a difference between > > *reading* and *comprehension*. Work a little harder on the latter and I > > think you'll find you won't be "picked on". > > > > Stop playing the victim. You're not the first and it's old. > > > > -- > > Scott McEachern > > > > https://www.blackstaff.ca > > > > > > > -- > www.johntate.org > > -- Atentamente Andris Genovez Tobar / Tecnico Elastix ECE - Linux LPI-1 - Novell CLA - Apple ACMT http://www.puntonet.ec
Re: Narcicism?
On 12/01/2011 05:39 PM, David Coppa wrote: See the subject: "Narcicism" And, btw, the correct spelling is "Narcissism": as a guru, this is something you should already have known ;) ciao, David As a citizen of an English-speaking country AND a guru, John, you should at least know how to spell. David's right, you know. -- Rares Aioanei
Re: bad link for bind's named server patch for Openbsd 5.0 -stable
Daniel Ouellet presscom.net> writes: > > What you are looking at here: > > http://www.openbsd.org/errata50.html > > May not have replicated everywhere yet. > > Give it a day or two. > > Daniel > In reply to your first post, this is on CA site: 001: RELIABILITY FIX: November 30, 2011 All architectures A vulnerability has been found in BIND's named server (CVE-2011-4313). An unidentified network event caused BIND 9 resolvers to cache an invalid record, subsequent queries for which could crash the resolvers with an assertion failure. A source code patch exists which remedies this problem. And in reply to this one: Even on the Canadian server, the link is broken, so all replications will be broken too! best, Ralph
Re: Narcicism?
On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 02:25:06AM +1100, John Tate wrote: > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Scott McEachern wrote: > > > On 12/01/11 02:28, John Tate wrote: > > > >> I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me > >> and my little mistakes. > >> > >> I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't > >> seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on > >> me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal > >> bunch > >> of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? > >> > > > I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru > and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and > Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put > up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I > started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that > age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I > know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still > learning. Psyche-shatteringly awesome troll has massive balls, but is still a troll. News at 11. > > > > > >> Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or > >> are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? > >> > > Well I get messages that are worthless and seem to be insults. > > > > >> It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly > >> researched crap with no answers contain. > >> > >> If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. > >> > >> But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. > >> > >> John Tate. > >> > >> Note: Yes, it's not my list. > >> > >> > > John, if you don't mind, I'll give you some advice: Do your homework > > before posting to the list. Your basic instinct is to click "Send" instead > > of thinking first. I've lost count of how many of your posts were > > retracted by yourself, with a big "oops, my bad" or were replied to with > > RTFM-type responses. I got a kick out of one retraction where you said > > something like "Sorry, I was drunk." > > > > You're obviously new here. Sure, it's a tough crowd at times, but that > > only happens when people don't bother reading the FAQ, or the man pages, or > > trying things out for themselves. A lot of people have asked "stupid" > > questions or said something "dumb" -- myself included -- and got painful > > responses. I've had my share of facepalm experiences and had my ass handed > > to me plenty of times, but I deserved it. > > > > But you know what? I try to not make a regular occasion of it. It seems > > you do. > > > > I help a lot of people off-list, and I know for a fact many others do the > > same. I've found through years of experience there are two kinds of people > > on this list: those that need a little help and pointed in the right > > direction, and those that need their hands held for every step. Guess > > which category I put you in? And that's exactly why I've helped you a > > grand total of zero times. > > > > Now you have the gall to come on this list and insult the people that are > > trying to help you. I don't think there's anyone on this list that sits > > idly, waiting for an opportunity to "pick on" or "bully" someone. Get a > > grip, get some thicker skin, and most of all, RTFM first. > > > > I guarantee that if you take my advice, you'll find this list to be a > > very, very valuable resource. Remember, there is a difference between > > *reading* and *comprehension*. Work a little harder on the latter and I > > think you'll find you won't be "picked on". > > > > Stop playing the victim. You're not the first and it's old. > > > > -- > > Scott McEachern > > > > https://www.blackstaff.ca > > > > > > > -- > www.johntate.org
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 8:02 AM, Rares Aioanei wrote: > As a citizen of an English-speaking country AND a guru, John, you should > at least know how to spell. David's right, you know. You don't need to know how to spell. People have spell checkers these days.
Re: Narcicism?
Man, youth is really wasted on the young. On Dec 1, 2011 11:04 AM, "Rares Aioanei" wrote: > On 12/01/2011 05:39 PM, David Coppa wrote: > >> >> See the subject: "Narcicism" >> >> And, btw, the correct spelling is "Narcissism": as a guru, this is >> something you should already have known ;) >> >> ciao, >> David >> >> >> As a citizen of an English-speaking country AND a guru, John, you should > at least know how to spell. David's right, you know. > > -- > Rares Aioanei
[SOLVED] Re: ssh vpn
Manuel Giraud writes: > Hi, > > I've set up an openssh based vpn as described in ssh(1). Now, I want to > send all my traffic through this pipe. So I've put the following nat > rules on both ends of the pipe: > match out on em0 from tun0:network nat-to (em0) > > and modified the client route table like this: > route add > route change default 10.1.1.1 # <--- IP on tun0 > > It works as needed but now I need to access a service (e.g. a www > server) on and the www port is filtered by . How > can I do this? (I've tried some rdr-to and route-to rules on specific > port without success). Ok, I reply to myself because I found something that works. I prepend the two following rules to my client /etc/pf.conf: match out proto tcp from em0 to port www \ rdr-to tun0:peer pass out quick proto tcp from em0 to tun0:peer port www \ nat-to tun0 Don't know if it is the best way to do it though. -- Manuel Giraud
Re: how to find dependencies when building a new kernel
On Dec 01 09:44:25, T. Valent wrote: > > Because if someone simply says "this is impossible", it is only > > natural to ask "why is that impossible?". > > Might be a question of culture. For me this doesn't sound "natural". If > I'm being asked a question and given (detailed?) circumstances, I'd try > to answer and take the circumstances as they are. I believe the person > asking me might have reasons to tell me that this and that ain't > possible, otherwise he wouldn't have said it, right? > > > > (Solving your problem is impossible. Really. > > Don't waste your time asking why.) > > This is the exact kind of answer you have to expect in certain > situations. Why should I question the conclusion of an expert that I > asked? If I knew better, why should I ask an expert? > > Say you ask a lawyer about what to do after you've stolen a Picasso and > while you tried to sell it somewhere, it caught fire and was burned > down. You tell the lawyer that there's no way you can give it back and > you need an advice. Would you find it "natural" that the lawyer ignores > that you said you cannot give it back and instead keeps on asking > questions about where you burnt it, what you burnt it with, how hot the > fire was, where the ashes are now and what the painting smelled like? That's a very weak analogy. A better analogy would be - So why don't you give the painting back? - That's impossible. - Why is it impossible? - Because I burned it. Can you spot the difference between this and the following? - So why don't you put a bigger CF card in there? - That's impossible. - Why is that impossible? - Don't ask. > I am an expert for the circumstances of this very defined little problem > I have. I was seeking for help to find an answer to the question "Which > drivers are required for proper system functioning". That's it. No, that's not it. You have said several times that you are NOT looking for an answer that goes "add these three lines and it will work". Isn't that exactly adding the drivers that are required? > I doubt that this is a question that cannot be answered. And I doubt > that answering this question has to do with the hardware or what it is > used for. LOLWUT? The set of pieces required to be in the kernel does not depend on which hardware you run? > > So the 32MB storage is a CF card? Don't be surprised that > > people ask, because it begs the question (no really, it does): > > why can't you put a bigger CF card in there that would > > just hold GENERIC? No, really: why? Answering this question > > will take a few minutes of our time. > > These machines (>100) are not on site here. The flash mem is inside a > box which the people who run the box would have to screw open. See? If you spent ten seconds putting this into your first email, nobody would question that it is indeed ruled out. > The one reason that should stop all discussion about this: The project > goal is to update existing systems by software only. Ever been given a > project and then tried to discuss the project goals because you didn't > find the solution (required lines in the config) within 3 days? I'm sure > I can solve this since I have been able to in the past. I am sure you can (no sarcasm here), and that you have. So why don't you do the same you did before? What *did* you do before? Strip GENERIC down to what you absolutely need to have? Did it work? > I was just > seeking for help to maybe find a quicker and more structured way than > "fiddling" around with the config. By definition, you *are* fiddling with kernel config. > > You have been told several times already: strip GENERIC down to what > > will fit on your system. Start with things you definitely do not need > > (sound? wifi?), then continue with the rest. If things break, put > > the last thing that you removed back there. It is a way to arrive > > at the smallest possible kernel that works for you. Isn't it? > > That's the way I've done it in the past (since OpenBSD 3.5). Because > this is a lot of work to be done each time I'd update to a new OpenBSD > version (which I admit I haven't done with every release), I was > thinking I'd better try to understand what is really required at > minimum. And then do it the other way round: Start with an empty file > and add the entries I found to be required. To achieve this goal, I > asked you folks. > > What I've learned now from this discussion is: Either there is no way to > do it bottom up, or you folks don't know it either. I don't think there is a way to arrive to a minimal working kernel from below that would be easier/faster than striping down to a minimal kernel from above. Not if you know the internal dependencies in various parts of the kernel. (I sure don't.) Some of that information probably lives in the set of Makefiles in the src tree.
Re: Narcicism?
On Dec 1, 2011, at 10:25 AM, John Tate wrote: > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Scott McEachern wrote: > >> On 12/01/11 02:28, John Tate wrote: >> >>> I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me >>> and my little mistakes. >>> >>> I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't >>> seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on >>> me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal >>> bunch >>> of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? >>> >> > I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru > and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and > Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put > up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I > started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that > age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I > know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still > learning. I'm wary of 24-year-olds calling themselves gurus. I'm only 28, but for me, that's at least old enough to know that there's a lot I don't know. I think you'll find most of the "serious" people on this list also started programming in the language of their respective times about the same time you did. The problem is not the list or the operating system, it's your attitude. Yes, you find yourself getting picked on a lot, but at times it's largely because you've been sloppy. When I get picked on because I've been sloppy, I take it in stride and try to learn a lesson from it (at work, they apply a "Dave Riley Coefficient" of about 2.5 to any time estimates I make, for example, because I'm consistently bad at it; it's something I'm still working on, but there's no reason for me to take it personally). This is not the list to come to if you want hand-holding or soothing words to assure you that you're master of your domain. It's not an operating system for people who don't like digging into the guts of things, which is partly why it's not wildly popular. To that extent, there's an expectation that if you have a problem with NFS, and Google hasn't provided the instant answer you expected, you might dig around in the (very good) documentation to see how it really works instead of just asking for the quick answers. To wit: Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for the night. Set fire to a man, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett So if you get burned over and over because of the same goof (not RTFMing), perhaps it's time to stop complaining about being cold. - Dave
Re: Narcicism?
Hi, * John Tate [2011-12-02 02:25+1100]: > I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a > guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. I am > the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting > it and in that sense still learning. Now I know who I'm gonna call when I get guru meditation.
Re: how much last entries should exist?
On 12/01/2011 03:23 AM, [B&G-Consulting] Elmar Bschorer wrote: Hi list, my server just had a little crash. Currently running: OpenBSD 4.9 GENERIC#477 amd64 After reset I checked "last" and I found only 5 entries. I am wondering I this is normal? Shouldn't there be more entries? The last one is from Wed Nov 30 09:43 - 09:43 (00:00). Could someone plz tell me when a entry gets deleted from "last"? Tia, Greets Elmar man last see newsyslog.conf, also. in short: unlike some other systems that default to showing you every person who ever logged in, OpenBSD rotates those log files. Of course, you can adjust the rotation schedule. What you see is (potentially?) entirely normal. Nick.
Re: Narcicism?
John Tate [j...@johntate.org] wrote: > I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me > and my little mistakes. > Hi John, It's actually spelled "narcissism". Chris
Re: Narcicism?
On 12/1/11 7:25 AM, John Tate wrote: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru [snip] age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I A guru is someone who knows stuff. Mehma
Re: Narcicism?
>> I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a >> guru > > [snip] > >> age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I >> > A guru is someone who knows stuff. and somebody who doesn't come crying or complaining. Gurus help other lesser mortals. What a good laugh for the day!
Re: Narcicism?
John Tate [j...@johntate.org] wrote: > I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me > and my little mistakes. > You also think facebook is narcissistic because...no negativity is allowed. http://johntate.org/node/29 Perhaps it's time for the aspiring novelist/philosopher to learn some new words. -- There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. - E. Hemingway
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, Dec 01, 2011 at 09:28:25AM -0800, Chris Cappuccio wrote: > John Tate [j...@johntate.org] wrote: > > I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me > > and my little mistakes. > > > > You also think facebook is narcissistic because...no negativity is allowed. > > http://johntate.org/node/29 > > Perhaps it's time for the aspiring novelist/philosopher to learn some new > words. > .. byebye misc@, too much spam ... -- Gilles Chehade http://www.poolp.org@poolpOrg
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, 1 Dec 2011 16:39:24 +0100 David Coppa wrote: > See the subject: "Narcicism" > > And, btw, the correct spelling is "Narcissism": as a guru, this is > something you should already have known ;) I prefer narsciscism ;^) Kc
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, 1 Dec 2011 10:49:23 -0500 Andres Genovez wrote: > When you are a real Hacker, you don`t call yourself one, people do. I call myself a hacker. Others call me a reverse systems engineer, systems analyst & programmer, network analyst, repurposing specialist, blablabla. But I've been a hacker since I learned about model railroads and ham radios from my buddy's dad. I have an apple 2 in the basement and know minix, so there ;-) Dhu
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, 1 Dec 2011 17:37:44 + Kevin Chadwick wrote: > On Thu, 1 Dec 2011 16:39:24 +0100 > David Coppa wrote: > > > See the subject: "Narcicism" > > > > And, btw, the correct spelling is "Narcissism": as a guru, this is > > something you should already have known ;) > > I prefer narsciscism ;^) > > Kc > narchischism? Dhu
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Kevin Chadwick wrote: > On Thu, 1 Dec 2011 16:39:24 +0100 > David Coppa wrote: > > > See the subject: "Narcicism" > > > > And, btw, the correct spelling is "Narcissism": as a guru, this is > > something you should already have known ;) > > I prefer narsciscism ;^) > > Kc > > The alternative to beating people up for posting things like "What use flags can I use to recompile the kernel to be smaller and faster" is entertaining the post below, which happens on the vast majority of open source mailing lists. Date: Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 1:54 PM Subject: hostname To: netbsd-us...@netbsd.org I haven't installed NetBSD yet, I'm trying to configure the network. It says 'no route to host' I think I need a valid hostname. Can you help me? Thanks
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Re: Narcicism?
On 12/01/11 10:25, John Tate wrote: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still learning. John, sorry to burst your bubble, but in your case it really must be done. You are not a hacker. Really. You are not a guru. Really. You are a kid who is having a great deal of difficulty learning the basics. You say you're 24, but I seriously doubt that, considering you cannot spell "narcissism" and cannot distinguish between "apprehend" and "comprehend". I think you are in dire need of a dictionary (I recommend Oxford). John, you are a legend, but only in your own mind. Your gun has no bullets; your pencil has no lead; your tree has no wood. You have some miles to go beyond setting up basic NFS before you can be called a hacker. This is a good start to your journey: $ man man Thanks for the laughs. No reply is necessary. Really. -- Scott McEachern https://www.blackstaff.ca
Re: Narcicism?
...which is exactly the reason I don't post questions. I know that 95% of my questions I've thought of have been answered by a simple man page search, the other 5% are hacked together with Python. As far as being a hacker when people call you that, good lord that term has been bastardized. Any punk that catches your Facebook open is a hacker anymore. I don't answer questions because I don't have the knowledge necessary to yet. When I do I'm sure I'll parrot in with a few RTFMs. Until then I'll just stalk about and read. Cheers. Thanks for your time in reading, Brandon Weaver On Dec 1, 2011, at 1:28 AM, John Tate wrote: > I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me > and my little mistakes. > > I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't > seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on > me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch > of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? > > Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or > are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? > > It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly > researched crap with no answers contain. > > If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. > > But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. > > John Tate. > > Note: Yes, it's not my list. > > -- > www.johntate.org
Re: Narcicism?
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:25 PM, John Tate wrote: > I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. > <...> > At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. Are You sure? You wrote C++ Linux kernel code in 2000? Really? -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
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Re: Narcicism?
On Dec 1, 2011, at 2:39 PM, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:25 PM, John Tate wrote: >> I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. >> <...> >> At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. > > Are You sure? You wrote C++ Linux kernel code in 2000? Really? To be fair, he didn't say that. - Dave
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Re: Narcicism?
On 2011-12-01 16.25, John Tate wrote: > I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru > and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and > Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put > up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I > started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that > age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I > know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still > learning. John, just to put things into perspective... I know you've been bashed quite a bit for the above, as well as for your tendency to ask first and shoot later, which is good if you're a law enforcement officer but not so good if you're trying to blend into a knowledgeable community full of professionals who, frankly, are busy guys. I, on the other hand, kind of like the cockiness you display above - self confidence is important in order to succeed just about anywhere in the world. Don't listen to those who mock you for spelling errors or for having the confidence to do things and stand up for yourself - but *DO* listen to those who, without having to, volonteer their time in order to help you and others on this list and anywhere. Now for the perspective part. I, like you, started out young. Got my first computer at age 11, which was more or less the last my parents saw of me for the next few years or so. It also got me a good head start into the then emerging computer industry; by the time I was 17 I landed an internship with a local unix computer manufacturer due in part to my knowledge of low level machine language programming (but mostly because my father and the CEO of that company were buddies...). By the time you were born, I had about 5 years of unix application, utility and kernel development experience to add to my five years of more or less low level hacking in one of the popular Z-80 based personal computer platforms of the day. I felt much like you do. I was on top of the world. :-) I was young and I was *good* at what I did, and I worked in an emerging field where there were, perhaps, a few hundred people IN THE WORLD doing what I did at the level I were at. Well, that was nearly 25 years ago. I'm 45 now. Since then, I've realized that what I know is not nearly as important as what I *don't* know. I'm still constantly learning new stuff - every day I pick up something new and interesting. I know now what I didn't know then - there is always someone else who knows this particular part of the equation better than you. AND I LISTEN TO THEM. Hopefully they listen to me in turn other times - not because I tell them I'm a guru or whatnot but because I've shown that I only open my mouth when I know what I'm talking about. I'm still very confident in my own abilities though, and because of that I'm good at selling my consulting services to those needing my particular skill set. Therefore, the confidence and cockiness of youth are not at all bad traits. You just need to be more aware of other things. Don't waste time feeling insulted by faceless people on mailing lists - adapt and overcome! Study the archives, learn from those whose advice have proven adequate, correct and useful in the past and ignore the trolls and those who have nothing more useful to share than correcting your spelling errors. Fight the urge to join the dark, trolly side! And, wax on. Wax off. Regards, /Benny >>> Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or >>> are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? >>> >> Well I get messages that are worthless and seem to be insults. > >> >>> It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly >>> researched crap with no answers contain. >>> >>> If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. >>> >>> But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. >>> >>> John Tate. >>> >>> Note: Yes, it's not my list. >>> >>> >> John, if you don't mind, I'll give you some advice: Do your homework >> before posting to the list. Your basic instinct is to click "Send" instead >> of thinking first. I've lost count of how many of your posts were >> retracted by yourself, with a big "oops, my bad" or were replied to with >> RTFM-type responses. I got a kick out of one retraction where you said >> something like "Sorry, I was drunk." >> >> You're obviously new here. Sure, it's a tough crowd at times, but that >> only happens when people don't bother reading the FAQ, or the man pages, or >> trying things out for themselves. A lot of people have asked "stupid" >> questions or said something "dumb" -- myself included -- and got painful >> responses. I've had my share of facepalm experiences and had my ass handed >> to me plenty of times, but I deserved it. >> >> But you know what? I try to not make a regular occasion of it. It seems >> you do. >> >> I
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Re: Narcicism?
like any other population, we have our parrots, non-thinkers, OCD, Bi-polar, stupid or the otherwise normal. we also have more than a few extremely intelligent people. one thing I have noticed (because I also suffer from it) is that more intelligent you are, the worse your interpersonal skills tend to be. mow, I happen to be fairly intelligent (somewhere north of the upper 130's) , but I am not so far above the normals that I can't understand them. I have known people so intelligent that they have virtually no understanding of how their fellow human beings work (and I can understand that position as well). the point I am hoping to make is that we all have our quirks, behavioral problems and skills (and that is fine by me). all that is needed is a little understanding and a very thick skin. -eric On Dec 1, 2011, at 12:28 AM, John Tate wrote: > I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me > and my little mistakes. > > I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't > seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on > me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch > of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? > > Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or > are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? > > It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly > researched crap with no answers contain. > > If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. > > But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. > > John Tate. > > Note: Yes, it's not my list. > > -- > www.johntate.org
Re: Narcicism?
I have known geniuses who were computer illiterate. On Dec 1, 2011 5:58 PM, "Eric Oyen" wrote: > like any other population, we have our parrots, non-thinkers, OCD, > Bi-polar, > stupid or the otherwise normal. we also have more than a few extremely > intelligent people. > > one thing I have noticed (because I also suffer from it) is that more > intelligent you are, the worse your interpersonal skills tend to be. mow, I > happen to be fairly intelligent (somewhere north of the upper 130's) , but > I > am not so far above the normals that I can't understand them. I have known > people so intelligent that they have virtually no understanding of how > their > fellow human beings work (and I can understand that position as well). > > the point I am hoping to make is that we all have our quirks, behavioral > problems and skills (and that is fine by me). all that is needed is a > little > understanding and a very thick skin. > > -eric > > On Dec 1, 2011, at 12:28 AM, John Tate wrote: > > > I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of > me > > and my little mistakes. > > > > I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't > > seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on > > me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal > bunch > > of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? > > > > Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying > or > > are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? > > > > It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you > poorly > > researched crap with no answers contain. > > > > If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. > > > > But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. > > > > John Tate. > > > > Note: Yes, it's not my list. > > > > -- > > www.johntate.org
Mapeo, Análisis y Rediseño de Procesos
Presentacisn znica Nacional en el aqo... Mapeo, Analisis y Rediseqo de Procesos Presencial: 08 de Diciembre / Ciudad de Mixico Online en Vivo: 09 de Diciembre / Por Internet Este seminario esta diseqado, en teorma y practica, para aprender a mapear los procesos con un enfoque analmtico que identifique relaciones, dependencias y secuencias en las actividades de la organizacisn, desde los macro procesos empresariales hasta su desdoblamiento en los subprocesos y actividades productivas. Al finalizar este programa, el participante sera capaz de realizar el rediseqo de procesos, incluyendo tambiin: -Comprender la causa y efecto en cada actividad, identificando de esta manera las areas de oportunidad que permitan desarrollar planes de accisn, basados en prioridades que establezcan un proceso de mejora continua. -Aprender a monitorear eficazmente los puntos crmticos de control que miden el desempeqo de las operaciones, alcanzando la sinergia de los procesos con los objetivos de la empresa. -Desarrollar un programa maestro de procesos, incluyendo evaluacisn de tiempos, costos y esfuerzos. Dirigido a: Jefes y Supervisores de areas operativas. !Obtenga la Informacisn Completa! Opcisn.1) Llamando al 01-800-25010-20 Opcisn.2) Respondiendo los siguientes datos: -Empresa: -Nombre: -Puesto: -Tel: ( ) -E-mail: misc@openbsd.org Desuscripcisn? responda con la palabra no.mapeo
Re: Narcicism?
On 12/1/11, Eric Oyen wrote: > like any other population, we have our parrots, non-thinkers, OCD, Bi-polar, > stupid or the otherwise normal. we also have more than a few extremely > intelligent people. > > one thing I have noticed (because I also suffer from it) is that more > intelligent you are, the worse your interpersonal skills tend to be. mow, I > happen to be fairly intelligent (somewhere north of the upper 130's) , Oh ya? Well, you spelled 'now' wrong ;-)
Re: Narcicism?
so remind me again why we're catering to NLB's and Trolls? On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:12 PM, Neal Hogan wrote: > On 12/1/11, Eric Oyen wrote: > > like any other population, we have our parrots, non-thinkers, OCD, > Bi-polar, > > stupid or the otherwise normal. we also have more than a few extremely > > intelligent people. > > > > one thing I have noticed (because I also suffer from it) is that more > > intelligent you are, the worse your interpersonal skills tend to be. > mow, I > > happen to be fairly intelligent (somewhere north of the upper 130's) , > > Oh ya? Well, you spelled 'now' wrong ;-)
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Re: Narcicism?
2011/12/1 Brandon Weaver : > so remind me again why we're catering to NLB's and Trolls? > I think people are still debugging his bug report.
Aplicacion Exitosa de los INCOTERMS en el Comercio Internacional y Aduana
Aplicacisn Exitosa de los INCOTERMS en el Comercio Internacional y Aduana Presencial: 09 de Diciembre / Ciudad de Mixico Online en Vivo: 13 de Diciembre / Por Internet Permita que su negocio llegue mas lejos aprendiendo y dominando los tirminos comerciales internacionales establecidos por la Camara Internacional de Comercio. Sin importar qui exporte o pretenda exportar o importar, ni qui medio utilice, conocer a fondo estas especificaciones le garantizaran ahorros en tiempo y recursos que se traduciran ademas en una mayor eficiencia en sus procesos globales. El seminario-taller Aplicacisn Exitosa de los INCOTERMS en el Comercio Internacional y Aduana que Quality Training de Mixico pone a su alcance es una herramienta invaluable para todo empresario que quiera incorporarse al comercio mundial, que quiera mejorar las practicas existentes en su compaqma o que quiera prepararse para las realidades que las compaqmas globalizadas deben enfrentar, de manera 100% practica y efectiva. !Comience a elevar la competitividad de su empresa hoy mismo! - Domine los INCOTERMS y otros tirminos relevantes para las practicas de exportacisn e importacisn - Amplme sus conocimientos y mejore el manejo de sus negociaciones y operaciones internacionales - Aprenda a integrar los costos y elementos relevantes a cada tirmino mediante ejercicios practicos - Conozca sus obligaciones y derechos y las de su contraparte en todo proceso de compra/venta en el extranjero. Dirigido a: Empresarios, ejecutivos y funcionarios vinculados con operaciones de Exportacisn e Importacisn; Personal de Agencias Aduanales, Operadores Logmsticos, Transportes y Servicios, asm como Profesores y Estudiantes de Comercio y Negocios Internacionales y Especializaciones relacionadas. !Obtenga la Informacisn Completa! Opcisn.1) Llamando al 01-800 2501.020 Opcisn.2) Respondiendo los siguientes datos: -Empresa: -Nombre: -Puesto: -Tel: ( ) -E-mail: misc@openbsd.org *Divulgue esta informacisn entre compaqeros de trabajo y amigos, sin duda se lo agradeceran. Desuscripcisn? responda con la palabra noComInt
CanSecWest 2012 Mar 7-9; 2nd call for papers, closes next week, Monday. Dec 5 2011
So after a dozen years or so organizing conferences, you get the urge to pull levers and try experimenting with things. So this year I sent out the CanSecWest CFP only over Twitter, and G+ publicly. Just curious as to the adoption and information dispersion rate, and some estimate of the attention these newer channels are getting. So after this experiment I hear about people having submissions and missing the CFP. So for my control set, here is the normal announce message to different e-mail lists. We'll do a Second CanSecWest CFP, but a brief one. Send us your proposal by the end of Monday next week, December 5, 2011. The questions and information needed is the same as usual (see website), also for my curiosity could you include: 12. Where did you hear about the CFP from? cheers, --dr -- World Emerging Security Technology Vancouver, March 7-9 http://cansecwest.com pgpkey http://cansecwest.com/ kyxpgp
Re: Packet drop because of invalid IP checksum on Soerkis / vr / ral
I think I've found the problem. when a packet comes from ral0 ---> 10.0.0.1, the bridge changes the received interface to vr0, which has IFCAP_CSUM_IPv4. So when the icmp layer is about to test the checksum, it assumes the output interface is the same one which the packet came in (in our case, vr0, and not ral0). So the checksum does not get calculated. That's why it works when we remove the capabilities from vr0.
Re: Narcicism?
Thanks for the laugh, John. I made a meme for you: http://memegenerator.net/instance/11838771 On Dec 1, 2011, at 10:25 AM, John Tate wrote: > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Scott McEachern wrote: > >> On 12/01/11 02:28, John Tate wrote: >> >>> I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me >>> and my little mistakes. >>> >>> I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't >>> seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on >>> me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal >>> bunch >>> of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences? >>> >> > I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru > and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and > Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put > up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I > started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that > age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I > know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still > learning. > > >> >>> Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or >>> are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? >>> >> Well I get messages that are worthless and seem to be insults. > >> >>> It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly >>> researched crap with no answers contain. >>> >>> If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. >>> >>> But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. >>> >>> John Tate. >>> >>> Note: Yes, it's not my list. >>> >>> >> John, if you don't mind, I'll give you some advice: Do your homework >> before posting to the list. Your basic instinct is to click "Send" instead >> of thinking first. I've lost count of how many of your posts were >> retracted by yourself, with a big "oops, my bad" or were replied to with >> RTFM-type responses. I got a kick out of one retraction where you said >> something like "Sorry, I was drunk." >> >> You're obviously new here. Sure, it's a tough crowd at times, but that >> only happens when people don't bother reading the FAQ, or the man pages, or >> trying things out for themselves. A lot of people have asked "stupid" >> questions or said something "dumb" -- myself included -- and got painful >> responses. I've had my share of facepalm experiences and had my ass handed >> to me plenty of times, but I deserved it. >> >> But you know what? I try to not make a regular occasion of it. It seems >> you do. >> >> I help a lot of people off-list, and I know for a fact many others do the >> same. I've found through years of experience there are two kinds of people >> on this list: those that need a little help and pointed in the right >> direction, and those that need their hands held for every step. Guess >> which category I put you in? And that's exactly why I've helped you a >> grand total of zero times. >> >> Now you have the gall to come on this list and insult the people that are >> trying to help you. I don't think there's anyone on this list that sits >> idly, waiting for an opportunity to "pick on" or "bully" someone. Get a >> grip, get some thicker skin, and most of all, RTFM first. >> >> I guarantee that if you take my advice, you'll find this list to be a >> very, very valuable resource. Remember, there is a difference between >> *reading* and *comprehension*. Work a little harder on the latter and I >> think you'll find you won't be "picked on". >> >> Stop playing the victim. You're not the first and it's old. >> >> -- >> Scott McEachern >> >> https://www.blackstaff.ca >> >> > > > -- > www.johntate.org
Re: pppoe
Using userland ppp, this pf configuration is preventing proper pppoe
connections. The same would happen with pppoe(4). I know how to accept, but
I'm not sure about (a) pppoe only (2) the order and position of where it
should go, though i didn't plagiarize these filters except from the manual.
I generally understand them.
# cat
/etc/pf.conf
int_if="xl0"
ext_if="tun0" #has to be changed to pppoe(4)
thenetwrk="10.0.0.0/8"
rothbard="10.0.0.10"
baal="10.0.0.2"
smass="10.0.0.1"
etcp_services="{22}"
itcp_services="{22,53}"
icmp_types="echoreq"
ports_rothbard="{17000,17001,17002,17003,17004,17005,2322}"
ports_smass="{17100,17101,17102,17103,17104,17105,}"
set block-policy
return
set loginterface
$ext_if
set skip on
lo
anchor
"ftp-proxy/*"
pass in quick on $int_if inet proto tcp to any port ftp
\
divert-to 127.0.0.1 port
8021
match out on $ext_if from 10.0.0.0/8 to any nat-to
$int_if
pass on $ext_if from 10.0.0.0/8 to
any
pass out on $ext_if proto tcp from any to
any
pass in on $ext_if proto tcp from any to any port $ports_rothbard rdr-to
$rothba
rd
pass in on $ext_if proto tcp from any to any port $ports_smass rdr-to
$smass
antispoof quick for { lo $int_if
}
pass in on egress inet proto tcp from any to (egress)
\
port
$etcp_services
pass in on egress inet proto tcp from any to $baal port
$itcp_services
pass in inet proto icmp all icmp-type $icmp_types
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Eric Furman wrote:
> On Monday, November 21, 2011 7:57 AM, "Jan Stary" wrote:
> > On Nov 21 12:37:37, John Tate wrote:
> > > I am setting up an OpenBSD firewall, and have everything working but I
> > > am using userland pppoe. I am not sure if it ever became an official
> > > part of OpenBSD, but I've heard there might be kernel level pppoe
> > > support.
> > >
> > > Is there kernel level pppoe support? Or is the cybersphere filling my
> > > head with dreams?
> >
> > Is http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq6.html#PPP a part of "cybersphere"?
>
> PPP?!?!?!?
> Aughugh, hsss, hs. It hurts usss it hurts uss!
> Take it away take it away!!!
> LOL
>
> Sorry, you have my sympathy...
>
--
www.johntate.org
Re: Narcicism?
> .. byebye misc@, too much spam ... > Indeed.
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1328602 [IMAGE] Pms de Mixico prestigiada firma de Capacitacisn presenta: Congreso Nacional Secretarias Ejecutivas y Asistentes 8 de Diciembre Guadalajara, Jalisco. -Mas de 900 asistentes satisfechas nos respaldansupera con ixito los retos del 2012. -Obtenga las herramientas necesarias para alcanzar un sptimo desempeqo en su funcisn. Empresa Registrada ante la STPS Smguenos en Twitter@pmscapacitacion o bien en Facebook PMS de Mixico. !Solicite Mayores Informes! Por favor responda este e-mail con los datos siguientes. Empresa: Nombre: Telifono: Email: Nzmero de Interesados: En breve recibira la informacisn completa de este inigualable evento. Comunmquese a los telifonos y con gusto uno de nuestros ejecutivos le atendera. Telifonos: (0133) 8851-2365, (0133) 8851-2741. Copyright (C) 2011, PMS Capacitacisn Efectiva de Mixico S.C. Derechos Reservados. PMS de Mixico, El logo de PMS de Mixico son marcas registradas. ADVERTENCIA PMS de Mixico no cuenta con alianzas estratigicas de ningzn tipo dentro de la Republica Mexicana. NO SE DEJE ENGAQAR - DIGA NO A LA PIRATERIA. Todos los logotipos, marcas comerciales e imagenes son propiedad de sus respectivas corporaciones y se utilizan con fines informativos solamente. Este Mensaje ha sido enviado a misc@openbsd.org como usuario de Pms de Mixico o bien un usuario le refiris para recibir este boletmn. Como usuario de Pms de Mixico, en este acto autoriza de manera expresa que Pms de Mixico le puede contactar vma correo electrsnico u otros medios. Si usted ha recibido este mensaje por error, haga caso omiso de el y reporte su cuenta respondiendo este correo con el subject BAJAASISTENTES Unsubscribe to this mailing list, reply a blank message with the subject UNSUBSCRIBE BAJAASISTENTES Tenga en cuenta que la gestisn de nuestras bases de datos es de suma importancia y no es intencisn de la empresa la inconformidad del receptor. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of asistentes diciembre.jpg]
Re: Narcicism?
See changes below: > Date: Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 02:30 AM > Subject: help me > To: netbsd-us...@netbsd.org > > > I am a seasoned expert at OpenBSD. I downloaded the IA64 version for my > new Intel Quad and burned a CD. I got some stupid warning about burning a > 5.2G ISO as data on a 80 minute CD but I ignored it and it worked so no > problem. Now it won't even boot. Don't you guys test this stuff before you > put it out there. The Windows 7 Ultimate Seasoned Pro Guru Totally > Expanded Master Edition that came on this computer runs perfectly, why > doesn't FreeBSD even work on this PC. They warned me Linux is totally > bogus and I didn't believe that until now. If the installer can't even > work I may be forced to go back to Windows.
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Como Manejar Exitosamente Sucursales
Simplemente el mejor Seminario de... Csmo Manejar Exitosamente Sucursales Al asistir a este seminario, conocera los secretos internos para el manejo de mzltiples oficinas evitando preocuparse de incurrir en equivocaciones costosas que puedan afectar las finanzas de su compaqma, ademas le ayudara a supervisar la calidad, lograr una estructura fuerte, dirigir equipos de colaboradores independientes, enfrentar desafmos y dar soluciones a los problemas propios de cada oficina. Entre los puntos a tratar se incluye: -Csmo aplicar el plan de negocio adecuado en las sucursales para dirigirlas correctamente. -Csmo mantener el orden mientras usted dirige a control remoto (larga distancia). -Csmo crear procedimientos claros para que el personal los pueda seguir al pie de la letra. -Por qui es importante generar la competencia entre sucursales. -Csmo manejar a distancia "polmticas impopulares". -Un comzn, pero mortal error de la gerencia. -Cada cuando debe visitar las sucursales. -Csmo controlar problemas, incluso cuando usted esta ausente. !De regreso a su oficina, usted podra poner en marcha las estrategias aprendidas! Dirigido a: Gerentes, Supervisores, Jefes, Encargados y cualquier persona que desee ganar experiencia practica en el manejo de sucursales y oficinas remotas en cualquier parte de la ciudad o del pams. Fechas znicas a nivel Nacional... Presencial: 08 de Diciembre / Ciudad de Mixico 14 de Diciembre / Guadalajara, Jal. 16 de Diciembre / Monterrey, N.L. Online en Vivo: 19 de Diciembre / Por Internet !Obtenga la Informacisn Completa! Opcisn.1) Llamando al 01-800-25010-20 Opcisn.2) Respondiendo los siguientes datos: -Empresa: -Nombre: -Puesto: -Tel: ( )? -E-mail: misc@openbsd.org Desuscripcisn? responda con la palabra nosucursal
