On 2011-12-01 08.28, John Tate wrote: > I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of me > and my little mistakes. > I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't > seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on > me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal bunch > of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences?
(Ok, this turned out to be quite a long text, but if you truly want to know why things are the way they are, please read all of it anyway.) My experience is that this is without a doubt one of the most competent, matter-of-fact and fun, in a unixy sort of way, bunch of people I've ever been around (and I haven't even met anyone in person yet). I have never, not once, been met with snarky remarks, disrespect, bad advice, been ignored, bashed, beaten, humiliated or anything of the sort. Sure, I've had ideas, patches and suggestions thouroughly dissected and sometimes declared not good enough, but I'd expect nothing less than the highest standards being applied to whatever is submitted for review. The way to handle that is to learn from the experience and submit better stuff next time, not taking it as a personal insult. The one and only reason people who come on to the list from nowhere, name unknown to the community, gets bashed is THEY DIDN'T DO THEIR HOMEWORK FIRST. It is written just about everywhere, so the only way one could possibly miss the lessons about how to behave on this list is to not even bother to look. Let me give you an example you might be able to relate to, because it involves you: A while ago you asked about a problem with mounting an NFS drive. After some questions back-and-forth with a few people I chipped in with this diagnosis, also arrived at by others: ----8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<---- (cut) Your mountd and/or portmap most likely isn't running. Have you followed the instructions in the FAQ? If not, backtrack all your efforts, read up on what to do and try again. http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq6.html#NFS man portmap man nfsd man mountd man exports ----8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<---- (cut) Your reply: ----8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<---- (cut) Sorry I should have posted. mountd, portmap, and also the appropriate services are running on the server portmap and nfsd. ----8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<---- (cut) Then then next day, you wrote, problem solved: ----8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<---- (cut) mountd was unhappy with my /etc/exports and wasn't starting. I truly wish mountd checked the environment to see where I was running it from and just told me with stdout, but for whatever clever unix reasons does not. ----8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<---- (cut) What this tells me is this: * you don't listen to advice (several people including me told you a service wasn't running, yet you didn't actually CHECK) * you don't do your homework (several people also gave you sound reading advice, which you apparently ignored) * you do sloppy work (since mountd actually WASN'T running on your system, which you failed to check even when pointed towards the likely solution by several people, you ended up misleading all who tried to help) * you're blaming the system for your shortcomings ("I truly wish mountd...bla bla bla...") instead of learning to do things right from the beginning, using the truly outstanding documentation that sets OpenBSD apart from *everything* else on the market. * you're not respectful of other people's time and effort, which you apparently expect them to devote to YOU for free, while also obviously reserving the right to take offense when they do WHY should anyone spend even a minute of his or her time to help you, given that you're not even prepared to do a minimum amount of homework yourself, let alone listen to advice from people who actually know what they're talking about? Even so, I've been surprised how civil and courteous people here have been towards you and your numerous problems. Not only don't I agree with your general observations and criticism, as far as I can tell they don't even apply in your own case. Regards, /Benny > Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying or > are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever? > > It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you poorly > researched crap with no answers contain. > > If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me. > > But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it. > > John Tate. > > Note: Yes, it's not my list. > -- internetlabbet.se / work: +46 8 551 124 80 / "Words must Benny Lofgren / mobile: +46 70 718 11 90 / be weighed, / fax: +46 8 551 124 89 / not counted." / email: benny -at- internetlabbet.se
