[MlMt] Muting - not working as documented

[John Purnell]

When I mute a message from a mailing list, I see in the Activity Viewer 
that the `$Muted` flag is applied to the message. I then delete the 
message and can see it is moved to the Trash mailbox. But subsequent 
messages in the thread are still filtered (by the server) into the 
mailbox of that mailing list, are not marked read and are not moved to 
the Trash mailbox. I expect further messages in the thread (not 
addressed to me) to have the `$Muted` flag set, be marked read and be 
filed into the mailbox of the parent message (in this case Trash).


Am I misunderstanding how this works, or what do I need to do to make it 
work as described?


Thanks
John
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Re: [MlMt] Muting - not working as documented

[John Purnell]

On 2014-09-29, at 14:26 +0200, Benny Kjær Nielsen 
 wrote:


I think you understand it correctly. Looking at the related code I can 
see that part of it uses some deprecated functionality and depending 
on the headers of your messages then it might not work as expected. 
You can try enabling “strong muting” as follows:


defaults write com.freron.MailMate MmStrongMutingEnabled -bool YES

This should make it work except that it no longer checks for emails 
addressed directly to you.


Thanks Benny, I have set the preference (I'm on build 4469). As I would 
never mute a thread that I could possibly get a direct response in, the 
qualification would never affect me. Will let you know in a day or so 
how it works.


Cheers
John
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Re: [MlMt] Muting - not working as documented

[John Purnell]

On 2014-09-29, at 14:26 +0200, Benny Kjær Nielsen 
 wrote:


I think you understand it correctly. Looking at the related code I 
can see that part of it uses some deprecated functionality and 
depending on the headers of your messages then it might not work as 
expected. You can try enabling “strong muting” as follows:


defaults write com.freron.MailMate MmStrongMutingEnabled -bool YES



Just confirming that this change gets muting working perfectly.

Many thanks Benny
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Re: [MlMt] gpg2 path?

[John Purnell]

Following on from Bill's suggestions, a 4th option would be to run the 
following command in Terminal:


sudo printf '%s\n' 'setenv MM_GPG /usr/local/bin/gpg2' >> 
/etc/launchd.conf


and then log out and back in. This would also set the variable 
persistently.


John

On 2015-04-21, at 22:58 +0200, Bill Cole 
 wrote:



On 21 Apr 2015, at 13:28, Christopher LILJENSTOLPE wrote:


Greetings,

	I've moved off of GPGTools, and am running the current gpg2 tooling 
from GNU (brew package, if anyone is interested).  However, it seems 
as if the GPGTools path is stuck somewhere in the system for the path 
for gpg2.  Any hidden variable where I can change that path?



[CAVEATS: I am not Benny.
  Everything below is conjecture based on a few minutes of 
investigation.

  My advice is worth every penny you've paid for it :)]

The Release Notes say that the path to gpg2 was originally hardcoded 
to /usr/local/bin/gpg2 and later the "default" was changed to 
/usr/local/MacGPG2/bin/gpg2 but there's nothing I can find anywhere 
documenting a way to change or override that default. However, a bit 
of grep work indicates that the places in /Application/MailMate.app/ 
where the strings MacGPG2 and gpg2 occur (in the main binary and the 
OakMIME framework library) are near the string MM_GPG, which appears 
to be used as a variable name based on its context, probably imported 
from the environment (quirky!) This suggests 3 possible approaches, if 
your homebrew binary is at /usr/local/bin/gpg2:


1. Symlink the hardcoded name to the working one:
 sudo mkdir -p /usr/local/MacGPG2/bin
 sudo ln -s /usr/local/bin/gpg2 /usr/local/MacGPG2/bin

2. Set the MM_GPG environment variable via launchctl. There are 2 ways 
to do this:

a. Manually as needed, once per login session in a Terminal session:
/bin/launchctl setenv MM_GPG /usr/local/bin/gpg2
b. In a launchd .plist (in ~/Library/LaunchAgents/) which runs the 
command above every time you log in. The details for constructing a 
launchd .plist file are readily available via 'man launchd.plist'.


3. Set the MM_GPG variable for MailMate with defaults:
 sudo defaults write com.freron.MailMate MM_GPG -string 
"/usr/local/bin/gpg2"



Given the context around 'MM_GPG' in the 2 files it occurs in, my 
guess is that (2) will work but (3) will not. It is unlikely for them 
both to work. (1) will almost surely work, but it is inelegant.

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Re: [MlMt] Any way to prevent auto-correcting two spaces after a period to one?

[John Purnell]

Steve Losh eloquently puts forward the case for 2 spaces:

http://stevelosh.com/blog/2012/10/why-i-two-space/


On 2015-06-08, at 05:54 +0200, Ben Klebe  wrote:

No, he’s saying that when the practice began doesn’t matter 
because it’s not part of 21st century typography.



Sincerely,


Ben Klebe

On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 11:46 PM, Eric A. Meyer  
wrote:



I'll offer my own but of insight: Butterick is right that it doesn't
matter.  I just wish he and those who follow his view would take that
advice to heart, and stop demonstrating to all and sundry that it 
really

does matter to them.
On 7 Jun 2015, at 23:21, Ben Klebe wrote:
I can only offer this shrewd bit of insight from Matthew 
Butterick’s

excellent Practical Typography:
http://practicaltypography.com/one-space-between-sentences.html




"I know that many peo­ple were taught to put two spaces be­tween
sen­tences. I was too. But these days, us­ing two spaces is an
ob­so­lete habit. Some say the habit orig­i­nated in the
type­writer era. Oth­ers be­lieve it be­gan ear­lier. But guess
what? It doesn’t mat­ter. Be­cause ei­ther way, it’s not part
of to­day’s ty­po­graphic prac­tice."


Sincerely,


Ben Klebe

On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Gary Hull 
wrote:


On 8 Jun 2015, at 9:40, Eric A. Meyer wrote:

On 7 Jun 2015, at 20:16, Gary Hull wrote:


On 8 Jun 2015, at 2:44, Ben Klebe wrote:

The autocorrect is system-wide in Cocoa text fields. To change 
it,

go to System Preferences -> Keyboard -> Text and uncheck
“Correct
spelling automatically.” Strangely though I can’t replicate
this
behavior and furthermore why would you want two spaces after a
period?


Please don't open that can of worms on the mailing list!:


…he said, and then wrenched the can open further.

You noticed that, huh? :-)

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2011/01/space_invaders.html

Although I agree: two spaces after a period should have died with
manual monospace typewriters.


You and Manjoo are wrong: the wider post-sentence spacing was not 
a

quirky, transient artifact of typewriters or monospace fonts, but
has
literal centuries of precedent and tradition behind it:

http://www.heracliteanriver.com/?p=324

I worked in my middle school's print shop for a year setting lead
type
from a California case and redistributing the pi, so I know the
traditions, and have read all the old pre-ITC typography books that
are
only available on ABE.com these days. I later worked as a graphic
designer in a shop that went through the whole range of
phototypography
from hand-spaced display type to self-contained Compugraphic 
machines

to
Agfa-Compugraphic front-ends to Postscript imagesetters. Not to
mention
IBM Selectric Composers with Adrian Frutiger-designed fonts on
9-to-the-em grids.
The point of books written for compositors is to teach compositors
what
to do. Writers didn't typeset their own books. Spacing decisions 
are

made by the compositor, based on the font in use, the leading, and
the
particular letter pair. Today the function of the compositor has 
been
taken over by the combination of the type designer and the 
particular
system in which the font is realized (such as Postscript), which 
has

all
sorts of intelligence built into it, and additional intelligence
built
into the publishing software that drives the output (imagesetter or
digital display). Again, the writer shouldn't be trying to force
design
factors like that in his manuscript (although click-to-publish
bloggers
have to assume some design responsibility). Fonts are no longer 
made

of
lead, you can kern without brass spacers, and you can negatively 
kern

without filing off the lead corners of the font. The way that type
looks
today is the way that skilled typographers want it to work, and the
best
of them have simply better taste than the past masters. Old books
just
look blotchy to modern eyes, although they are beautiful as
historical
objects.
At any rate, double spacer should know that publishers these days
have
regex routines that manuscripts get run through, fixing things like
initial and trailing spaces and high-bit ASCII, and that /\w+/\w/ 
or

the
like is built into such routines. So good luck getting double 
spaces

into print at a proper publisher.
There was a period, I'll say mostly in the 1960s, 1970s, but also a
bit
before and after, when many low-budget publications, including many
academic and scientific publications, published photographically
reduced
typed manuscripts. In other words, cheap typesetting was not
available
yet, and they couldn't afford typesetting. In these cases the style
that
writers had to follow specified "Elite" or "Courier," "double
spacing"
(two returns on the typewriter), the width of margins, the number 
of

lines per page, manual justification (with double spaces to
accomplish
that, or half spaces, which some typewriters could handle, such as
some
Olympias), and so on. Universities had typing pools that could
produce
such manuscripts: They functioned as the

Re: [MlMt] Setting Mailmate as standard programme in Launchbar

[John Purnell]

This is the AppleScript I use (based on Benny's) which works with a 
single recipient on 10.12.1. It depends on the Satimage.osax available 
from 
http://www.satimage.fr/software/en/downloads/downloads_companion_osaxen.html 
(I think you may have to restart for macOS to find it after installing). 
Move the script to ~/Library/Scripts/Applications/MailMate creating any 
folders that don't exist. Then select it in LaunchBar.

MailMate.scpt
Description: Binary data
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Re: [MlMt] Moving settings to a new computer from an existing installation

[John Purnell]

I just completed this successfully yesterday. I followed the instructions at 
the bottom of the respective manual page: 
https://manual.mailmate-app.com/rebuild before I opened MailMate (which I had 
previously updated to the latest beta build for Monterey). I then opened 
MailMate, manually synced all mailboxes, and waited for all the messages to 
download. After that I added my licence and checked the preferences as I moved 
from Mojave to Monterey (can't remember if I had to adjust any). This is the 
second time I've done this since using MailMate and the previous time was also 
effortless--a testament to Benny.


On 2022-02-20, at 06:06 +1300, Henry Seiden  wrote:

> Had no success moving IMAP accounts/settings from an existing installation to 
> a new computer. So, importing accounts from scratch (actually exporting them 
> is impossible because that functionality doesn’t seem to exist on the new 
> computer. Tried copying my account setting (Users>username>Library…) which 
> didn’t move any accounts.
>
> Tops on my list of new/workable features is to move all settings (account 
> settings, MM options, installed features) en masse by copy or export/import 
> in Finder or MM, from a working installation of MM to a new computer, in the 
> case of a clean install onto the same computer, or a different one from a 
> file backup.
>
> MailMate clean install’s just fine by itself but all features, IMAP accounts 
> and settings now need to be individually installed.
>
> The feature called Import Accounts contains nothing in the new installation 
> and can’t use accounts created on the System (System Preferences>Accounts) or 
> in another app (like Mail.app), unless they are appear installed in MailMate. 
> That seems weird. Tried it on a new Beta (12.3) OS installation that had 
> Mail.app accounts already logged in on that app, but the accounts installed 
> there were not visible in MM, but some are visible as choices in the old, 
> previous version(?).
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Henry Seiden
>
> Techworks Pro Co.
> E: infotechworksprocom
> W: http://techworkspro.com
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Re: [MlMt] Moving settings to a new computer from an existing installation

[John Purnell]

Henry, the procedure I described did bring in my all my accounts. The only 
input from me during the entire process was that I got prompted for new 
application specific passwords for those accounts that are protected by 2FA on 
the initial manually initiated sync (my default). Once I created those and 
inserted them in the dialog boxes the messages from those accounts started to 
get downloaded. I then left MailMate alone and did other stuff until the sync 
completed (some time). I then reconciled the mailbox message counts against the 
old computer (identical). I think an important step on the new machine is not 
to open MailMate before you do the migration described in the manual, or if you 
have, to: close MailMate, delete its Application Support folder and the 
preference list, follow the migration procedure and only then open MailMate. 
Good luck.


On 2022-02-20, at 09:02 +1300, Henry Seiden  wrote:

> Thanks, John,
>
> I thought that it would migrate my accounts as well, but alas, no. Nor will 
> it use any accounts installed in OS as “Internet accounts.” I guess you found 
> that or automatically did that process.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Henry Seiden
>
> Techworks Pro Co.
> E: infotechworksprocom
> W: http://techworkspro.com
>
> On 19 Feb 2022, at 14:22, John Purnell wrote:
>
>> I just completed this successfully yesterday. I followed the instructions at 
>> the bottom of the respective manual page: 
>> https://manual.mailmate-app.com/rebuild before I opened MailMate (which I 
>> had previously updated to the latest beta build for Monterey). I then opened 
>> MailMate, manually synced all mailboxes, and waited for all the messages to 
>> download. After that I added my licence and checked the preferences as I 
>> moved from Mojave to Monterey (can't remember if I had to adjust any). This 
>> is the second time I've done this since using MailMate and the previous time 
>> was also effortless--a testament to Benny.
>>
>>
>> On 2022-02-20, at 06:06 +1300, Henry Seiden  wrote:
>>
>>> Had no success moving IMAP accounts/settings from an existing installation 
>>> to a new computer. So, importing accounts from scratch (actually exporting 
>>> them is impossible because that functionality doesn’t seem to exist on the 
>>> new computer. Tried copying my account setting (Users>username>Library…) 
>>> which didn’t move any accounts.
>>>
>>> Tops on my list of new/workable features is to move all settings (account 
>>> settings, MM options, installed features) en masse by copy or export/import 
>>> in Finder or MM, from a working installation of MM to a new computer, in 
>>> the case of a clean install onto the same computer, or a different one from 
>>> a file backup.
>>>
>>> MailMate clean install’s just fine by itself but all features, IMAP 
>>> accounts and settings now need to be individually installed.
>>>
>>> The feature called Import Accounts contains nothing in the new installation 
>>> and can’t use accounts created on the System (System Preferences>Accounts) 
>>> or in another app (like Mail.app), unless they are appear installed in 
>>> MailMate. That seems weird. Tried it on a new Beta (12.3) OS installation 
>>> that had Mail.app accounts already logged in on that app, but the accounts 
>>> installed there were not visible in MM, but some are visible as choices in 
>>> the old, previous version(?).
>>>
>>> Respectfully,
>>>
>>> Henry Seiden
>>>
>>> Techworks Pro Co.
>>> E: infotechworksprocom
>>> W: http://techworkspro.com
>>> ___
>>> mailmate mailing list
>>> mailmate@lists.freron.com
>>> https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
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Re: [MlMt] Moving settings to a new computer from an existing installation

[John Purnell]

Henry, the procedure I described did bring in my all my accounts. The only 
input from me during the entire process was that I got prompted for new 
application specific passwords for those accounts that are protected by 2FA on 
the initial manually initiated sync (my default). Once I created those and 
inserted them in the dialog boxes the messages from those accounts started to 
get downloaded. I then left MailMate alone and did other stuff until the sync 
completed (some time). I then reconciled the mailbox message counts against the 
old computer (identical). I think an important step on the new machine is not 
to open MailMate before you do the migration described in the manual, or if you 
have, to: close MailMate, delete its Application Support folder and the 
preference list, follow the migration procedure and only then open MailMate. 
Good luck.


On 2022-02-20, at 09:02 +1300, Henry Seiden  wrote:

> Thanks, John,
>
> I thought that it would migrate my accounts as well, but alas, no. Nor will 
> it use any accounts installed in OS as “Internet accounts.” I guess you found 
> that or automatically did that process.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Henry Seiden
>
> Techworks Pro Co.
> E: infotechworksprocom
> W: http://techworkspro.com
>
> On 19 Feb 2022, at 14:22, John Purnell wrote:
>
>> I just completed this successfully yesterday. I followed the instructions at 
>> the bottom of the respective manual page: 
>> https://manual.mailmate-app.com/rebuild before I opened MailMate (which I 
>> had previously updated to the latest beta build for Monterey). I then opened 
>> MailMate, manually synced all mailboxes, and waited for all the messages to 
>> download. After that I added my licence and checked the preferences as I 
>> moved from Mojave to Monterey (can't remember if I had to adjust any). This 
>> is the second time I've done this since using MailMate and the previous time 
>> was also effortless--a testament to Benny.
>>
>>
>> On 2022-02-20, at 06:06 +1300, Henry Seiden  wrote:
>>
>>> Had no success moving IMAP accounts/settings from an existing installation 
>>> to a new computer. So, importing accounts from scratch (actually exporting 
>>> them is impossible because that functionality doesn’t seem to exist on the 
>>> new computer. Tried copying my account setting (Users>username>Library…) 
>>> which didn’t move any accounts.
>>>
>>> Tops on my list of new/workable features is to move all settings (account 
>>> settings, MM options, installed features) en masse by copy or export/import 
>>> in Finder or MM, from a working installation of MM to a new computer, in 
>>> the case of a clean install onto the same computer, or a different one from 
>>> a file backup.
>>>
>>> MailMate clean install’s just fine by itself but all features, IMAP 
>>> accounts and settings now need to be individually installed.
>>>
>>> The feature called Import Accounts contains nothing in the new installation 
>>> and can’t use accounts created on the System (System Preferences>Accounts) 
>>> or in another app (like Mail.app), unless they are appear installed in 
>>> MailMate. That seems weird. Tried it on a new Beta (12.3) OS installation 
>>> that had Mail.app accounts already logged in on that app, but the accounts 
>>> installed there were not visible in MM, but some are visible as choices in 
>>> the old, previous version(?).
>>>
>>> Respectfully,
>>>
>>> Henry Seiden
>>>
>>> Techworks Pro Co.
>>> E: infotechworksprocom
>>> W: http://techworkspro.com
>>> ___
>>> mailmate mailing list
>>> mailmate@lists.freron.com
>>> https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
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Re: [MlMt] Issues with custom key bindings

[John Purnell]

On 2025-01-16, at 10:41 +1300, Eric Sharakan via mailmate 
 wrote:

> Hi, I'm running MailMate Version 2.0 (6208) on macOS 15.2, and the two 
> keybindings you mentioned work fine for me.
>
> -Eric

Thanks for confirming. I'm on MailMate Version 1.14 (6065) on macOS 14.7.2, and 
they weren't working on Monterey either. Hhmmm, have to investigate further.

> On 12 Jan 2025, at 16:47, John Purnell wrote:
>
>> I have noticed that two of the standard custom key bindings 
>> (`MailMate.app/Contents/Resources/KeyBindings/Standard.plist`) don't work. 
>> These are:
>>
>> 1. `" " = "scrollPageDownOrNextMessage:";`, not even when changing `" "` to 
>> `"\U0020"`. It scrolls down, but doesn't move to the next message.
>> 2. `"\U000D" = "openMessages:";`, but when changing `"\U000D"` to `"\U0003" 
>> it does work.
>>
>> Also, the numeric key pad keys don't work when using the `"#1"` syntax, but 
>> do when using the `"\U0031"` unicode equivalent.
>>
>> I was wondering if these issue were specific to me or if others also had 
>> encountered them.
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[MlMt] Issues with custom key bindings

[John Purnell]

I have noticed that two of the standard custom key bindings 
(`MailMate.app/Contents/Resources/KeyBindings/Standard.plist`) don't work. 
These are:

1. `" " = "scrollPageDownOrNextMessage:";`, not even when changing `" "` to 
`"\U0020"`. It scrolls down, but doesn't move to the next message.
2. `"\U000D" = "openMessages:";`, but when changing `"\U000D"` to `"\U0003" it 
does work.

Also, the numeric key pad keys don't work when using the `"#1"` syntax, but do 
when using the `"\U0031"` unicode equivalent.

I was wondering if these issue were specific to me or if others also had 
encountered them.
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Re: [MlMt] 6067 won't open on M1 Max

[John Purnell]

Just as a point of reference, I have the same Mac and have been running MM 
builds up to 6065 on Monterey and Sonoma with no issues. What I have noticed is 
that in the *last while* there has been some delay between launching MM and its 
window appearing (can see its icon in the Dock). I suspected that it was 
phoning home to check for updates which for some reason had become slower, but 
clicking the icon brings it's window to the front. But because I keep MM open 
between reboots it hasn't bothered me.

Do you have some software like Little Snitch preventing the outgoing connection 
as that may be it?


On 2024-12-23, at 10:39 +1300, Ron Olson  wrote:

> Sorry I did not see any message earlier on the list; I just joined as I was
> looking for troubleshooting help for why MM wasn't starting and was not
> even aware there was a mailing list until today.
>
> I did roll back to 6060 and the app doesn't open, neither does 5937. I also
> tried going to 6065 and they all have the same issue: the icon bounces
> until it just gives up and I have to force-quit. Is it possible there was
> some kind of database migration that 6067 does that may or may not have
> occurred?
>
> I'd be happy to troubleshoot anything insofar as I am kind of stuck at
> the moment, using webmail is for the birds when you've used MM. :)
>
> Ron
>
> On Sun, Dec 22, 2024 at 3:26 PM Benny Kjær Nielsen 
> wrote:
>
>> On 22 Dec 2024, at 22:17, Ron Olson wrote:
>>
>> I updated my version of MM to 6067 and suddenly the app won't open at all.
>> I've restarted my computer (M1 Max MacBook Pro) and no amount of Force
>> Quit/Restart gets the app to start at all. I had been using 6065 up until
>> now with no problems. Any suggestions?
>>
>> As I wrote earlier on the list: Users with major issues can always try to
>> go back to the previous beta, MailMate_r5937.tbz
>> , or the
>> latest reasonably stable test release, MailMate_r6060.tbz
>> .
>>
>> Thanks for any help; been a MM subscriber since way back and don't want to
>> use any other map app on my Mac. :)
>>
>> Thanks! If you have time for debugging or the above doesn't work then
>> write me off list via “Help > Send Feedback”.
>>
>> --
>> Benny
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[MlMt] Release notes from 6065 to 6067?

[John Purnell]

I have been wanting to move to the new license model from test release 6065 but 
still can't find the release notes for *only* the changes between 6065 and 
6067. The available release notes for 6067 include all changes from release 
5937 (almost 2 years of changes), which I've been avoiding going through as the 
vast majority would be redundant. Does such a diff of changes exist?
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Re: [MlMt] Release notes from 6065 to 6067?

[John Purnell]

On 2025-03-07, at 01:26 +1300, Benny Kjær Nielsen  
wrote:

>> I have been wanting to move to the new license model from test release 6065 
>> but still can't find the release notes for *only* the changes between 6065 
>> and 6067. The available release notes for 6067 include all changes from 
>> release 5937 (almost 2 years of changes), which I've been avoiding going 
>> through as the vast majority would be redundant. Does such a diff of changes 
>> exist?
>
> No. Most of the changes were related to the new licensing model which also 
> required a coordination of changes in MailMate, the server (freron.com), and 
> the MailMate store (Fastspring). There might have been a few bug fixes to 
> MailMate functionality, but nothing important.
>
> A longer list of recent changes (since r6067) can be found here: 
> https://updates.mailmate-app.com/release_notes_archive/MailMate_r6236.html
>

Thanks for confirming. I had found the release notes up to 6234 from the 
Software Update dialog so plan to upgrade this weekend.
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