Java Eclipse on Lion, accessible?

[Jim Barbour]

Hey Folks,

I'm likely to need to do some mac based java development on the Mac
and am wondering if Eclipse is usable in voiceover.

I went searching the list and found there were issues on Snowleopard.
Does anyone know if java eclipse is usable with voiceover on lion?

Thanks Much,

Jim Barbour

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No trackpad commander in VO utility

[Jim Barbour]

Howdy Folks,

I've gotten the opportunity to play with a loaner MacBook pro.  I'm
trying to get the hang of VO and have run into a problem.

I brought up the VO utility, navigated to the commanders item, and
then magitated through the tabs.  There's the numpad commander and the
keyboard commander, but no trackpad commander.

I'm trying to find out if this is because my hardware is too old, or
my software is too old.

Could someone advise me on how to determine exactly which version of
VO i'm running, and perhaps even how to tell which MacBook I have (if
it matters)

Thanks To Everyone,

Jim 

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Re: No trackpad commander in VO utility

[Jim Barbour]

Looks like I fail on both counts.

I'm running 10.6.4, *and* I don't have the new multi-touch trackpad.

Ah well, thanks to everyone who responded, especially Anne who was
first 

Jim   

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:42:08AM -0800, Mark BurningHawk Baxter wrote:
> all the information you need will be in the "about," menus; for the Macbook, 
> use VO M to navigate to the menu bar at the top of the screen; when you hear 
> "apple," down-arrow once or twice to "About this mac."  VO space bar on that, 
> and you'll be presented with a window with which you can interact and read 
> about which mac and software you are using.   When you're in the VO utility, 
> navigating to the menu bar and right-arrow once to "about voiceover utility," 
> and down-arrow twice to "about VoiceOver Utility," will give you similar 
> information about which version of VO.  However, if your software is older 
> than version 10.6, you might not have all the commander options.
> 
> 
>  • Mark BurningHawk Baxter
>  • AIM, Skype and Twitter:  BurningHawk1969
>  • MSN:  burninghawk1...@hotmail.com
>  • My home page:
>  • http://MarkBurningHawk.net/
> 
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Re: speeding up media

[Jim Barbour]

I'm afraid I don't know how to do this on the Mac, so someone else
will need to step in.

However, if iTunes/idevices think that what you're listening to is a book,
then you have the option of speeding it up.  In my windows iTunes, you
can go into get info, and change the type of media you're listening to
to be "audiobook"  I'm guessing there's a way to do this on the mac as
well.

Jim

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:31:42PM -0800, Joshua Loya wrote:
> VLC does this. I wish there was an Apple script to do this in iTunes.
> 
> -Joshua
> On Nov 15, 2010, at 7:20 AM, heather kd5cbl wrote:
> 
> > Well, I was listening to some mp3 lectures using media player classic on 
> > the pc side and itunes on the mac side.  I wanted to know if there is a way 
> > to speed up the media like there is with the digital players?  Or is there 
> > another program that would allow me to speed up the media.  I guess I am so 
> > used to listening to things fast that it get really boring to listen to it 
> > slow!  Thanks Heather 
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Re: Behavior of macbook when lid is closed.

[Jim Barbour]

Yeah, but If I understand correctly, I start a job running in the
background and then close the laptop.  Reguardless of how long it
takes to wake up the laptop, my job didn't run while the laptop was 
closed.

Most unfortunate...

Jim

On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 02:10:38PM -0700, Carolyn Haas wrote:
> Hi Ricardo:
> c'mon, you can't be serious.  It takes all of 3 seconds to wake up the Mac, 
> as opposed to at least a couple minutes to pull a pc out of standby.  
> Personally I find the close-lid sleep a big plus when i'm done working and 
> just flip it shut and go on my way.  I've also had my computer refuse to go 
> to sleep if more than one app was left open.  So, that might be helpful for 
> those who don't want sleep mode to kick in.
> 
> 
> On Nov 18, 2010, at 1:53 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
> 
> > I agree,
> > 
> > This lack of basic customization makes me scratch my head.  Why assume 
> > every time a person closes the lid they want to put the computer to sleep? 
> > 
> > Ricardo Walker
> > rwalker...@gmail.com
> > Twitter, Skype, and AIM: rwalker296
> > Google Voice: 1-646-450-2197
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Nov 18, 2010, at 3:16 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> > 
> >> And it really sicks. I know I've voiced my opiniononthis before but apple 
> >> really needs to change that. I mean you can just close the lid and put it 
> >> on your bookshelf and still be able to use it or wht not. I don't see why 
> >> youcannot or should not be able to configure this. THat's the onlything I 
> >> love about the other platform I use. I can close the lid and let batch 
> >> convert files and put it away from me and eat or work on something else. 
> >> all while the lid is closed. I really wish apple would take that in to 
> >> consideration in lion or in the next or a next update of os 10.6.
> >> 
> >> On Nov 18, 2010, at 7:04, Ricardo Walker  wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Hi,
> >>> 
> >>> Thanks for the info.  I don't think anything has changed.  I'm using a a 
> >>> 2010 macbook pro I just got last week.  lol.
> >>> 
> >>> Ricardo Walker
> >>> rwalker...@gmail.com
> >>> Twitter, Skype, and AIM: rwalker296
> >>> Google Voice: 1-646-450-2197
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On Nov 18, 2010, at 9:56 AM, Bryan Jones wrote:
> >>> 
>  Hi Ricardo - The only way I was ever able to get my macbook or mbp to 
>  stay awake with the lid closed was to have an external monitor attached. 
>  When I did that, it worked great and I could access everything, put it 
>  to sleep, wake it up and restart it using the external USB keyboard, but 
>  whenever I tried it without an external monitor attached it would awake 
>  for a couple of seconds and then go right back to sleep. The last 
>  macbook I had was a late 2008 aluminum model, so maybe things have 
>  changed for the better on the newer models, I don't know.
>  
>  HTH,
>  Bryan
>  
>  On Nov 18, 2010, at 6:57 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
> > When closing the lid of my Macbook pro, the computer automatically goes 
> > to sleep.  Is there a way to change this behavior?  I've looked in the 
> > display and energy savor settings and didn't find anything.
>  
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> >>> 
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> >> 
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> 
> Carolyn Haas
> chaas0...@gmail.com
> When you come to a fork in the road,
> It's time to eat.
> 
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Re: The KillAll command

[Jim Barbour]

Actually,kill sends a signal to a process. Hup, or 1, usually restarts a 
process. However,  it is up to each program to define how it reacts to any 
signal.

The two exceptions are the kill signal (9) and the stop signal (26 I think). 
These signals can not be seen by the program. The OS shuts down or pauses the 
process. 

Jim

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 24, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Kevin Mattingly  wrote:

> kill is a unix command for stopping a process. The kill -9 is like yanking 
> the rug out from under something. There is nothing graceful about it. Some 
> processes should never be stopped using it. If you really need to blow a 
> process away, you may just be better off to reboot your mac. 
> 
> Kev
> On Nov 24, 2010, at 12:53 PM, Carolyn wrote:
> 
>> Ah, leave it to Scott to bring us some grace.:)  I haven't a clue what y'all 
>> are talking about.  But I guess I should know this in case Alex ever decides 
>> to give me the silent treatment.  I don't recall an initial post on this but 
>> better save these in a backup for future reference.
>> To all who care:  Happy Thanksgiving
>>  
>> Carolyn
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Scott Granados
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 10:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: The KillAll command
>> 
>> Whoa -9 and -hup do * not * do the same thing.
>> 
>> 
>> -9 is a kill all with no graceful shutdown.  -HUP is a restart, -1 is a 
>> graceful shutdown.
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 24, 2010, at 8:41 AM, Geoff Waaler wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Eric and Nic,
>>> 
>>> Thanks much -- the -9 seems to cause a restart, hence appears to have the 
>>> identical affect of the -hup parm.
>>> 
>>> On Nov 24, 2010, at 3:22 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:
>>> 
 Hi!
 
 True enough. -HUP accomplishes the same thing, though, but of course the 
 parameters mean something different. I always just use -9 to ensure it 
 actually quits, and it's just as efficient in the long-run. And, it's less 
 parameters to type.
 
 Regards,
 ic
 GoogleTalk: chojiro1...@gmail.com
 Facebook
 Twitter
 Skype: Kvalme
 MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
 Yahoo! Messenger: cin368
 AIM: cincinster
 
 On Nov 24, 2010, at 10:08 AM, Eric Oyen wrote:
 
> the killall command works. -9 will simply force it to quit. I prefer the 
> use of killall -HUP VoiceOver as it forces a reset of voiceover without 
> going through all the issues of restarting it via keystrokes.  btw, you 
> must capitalize the V and the O otherwise it will not find the process 
> name.
> 
> -Eric
> 
> On Nov 24, 2010, at 1:53 AM, Geoff Waaler wrote:
> 
>> Greetings,
>> I meant to reply to one of Nic's recent posts, but  deleted it.  He 
>> suggested that if VO goes silent one could enter terminal into spotlight 
>> and then enter -- I forget the exact command but believe it was 
>> killallall -9 voiceover.
>> 
>> I tried this with and without the extra "all" and also tried inserting a 
>> space between the two alls, but only receive a message that no matching 
>> processes were found.
>> 
>> I'd like to get this right in case I do experience a vo crash.  May not 
>> have recalled the parm Nic mentioned, but I did use the one he specified 
>> (which may not have been -9).
>> 
>> TIA for any clarification, and best regards.
>> Geoff
>> 
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> 
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>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: iphone app OT

[Jim Barbour]

On the iphone list (subscribe at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone)

several folks have talked about using bible apps.  That might be a
good place to check.

Apple is absolutely not enforcing accessibility.  there is off and on
chatter on the list about this as well.

JIm

On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 10:40:31AM -0600, John W. Carty wrote:
> There's a bible app called olive tree that has some good features but using 
> voiceover the text is completely silent.
> 
> I thought apple was publishing development standards and enforcing compliance.
> 
> Is anyone out there successfully using an iphone / ipad bible application? If 
> so, which one?
> 
> Thanx,
> 
> John Carty
> 
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Re: the mac and productivity

[Jim Barbour]

I don't believe any of the Microsoft programs written for the mac are
accessible using voiceover.  The mac equivalents - pages, numbers, etc - 
are accessible, but you need to figure out if they generate documents
that you can share with those using Microsoft products.

That is probably what I'd pay the most attention to given your
description.

Jim

On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 05:40:01PM +, Matthew J wrote:
> hay all:
>
> Well it is that time that I start considering a laptop solution and the  
> mac is becoming ever more attractive for taking places and working. What  
> I'd like to see however, is how productive the mac can be in comparison  
> to windows machines. I have mys ystems with office 2007/10 down to a  
> fine art, including footnotes, xl, ETC and do not want to have to  
> develop completely new ways of working. I know of course that macs  
> require some different ways of doing things, but I would like to have  
> the same ease of use for tasks like translating, office working,  
> research and using pdfs, ETC, which include a lot of copying from web  
> pages, making tables, and all the rest. How does the mac stack up with  
> the day-to-day productivity tasks you all require in your professional  
> copacities?
>
> any podcasts or other VI resources on this topic would be very welcome
>
> thanks
> MJ
>
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Re: Is there an accessible Usenet client

[Jim Barbour]

I use mutt for email, but I don't think it does nntp.

It is a very nice terminal based mail reader.

Jim

On Wed, Dec 01, 2010 at 05:28:40PM -0700, Eric Oyen wrote:
> have you tried mutt? its a command line NNTP client. you might have to 
> install Xcode tools and install it from the ports tree (from macports). most, 
> if not all command utilities are fairly accessible with VO.
> 
> -Eric
> 
> On Dec 1, 2010, at 11:56 AM, Massimo Vettoretti wrote:
> 
> > Hi all.
> > 
> > I am looking for an accessible NNTP usenet client. I was trying four of 
> > them, but none is usable.
> > 
> > I tried Nemo. It seemed very very promising; the configuration wizard was 
> > fully accessible, but... the table containing the subscribed groups looks 
> > empty to Voice Over. I mean, it can see the table but all rows and columns 
> > are empty for VO. Of course, the control containing the message itself is a 
> > standard HTML content that VO can read with no  problem... :-) Menu bar 
> > cannot be accessed by pressing VO+m, but they respond to ctrl+f2. Voice 
> > Over will not read them. :-) 
> > 
> > Ok, uninstalled Nemo, I instal thunderbird. Just for fun. As you already 
> > know, no accessibility at all there.
> > 
> > Thoth was m third attempt. Another disaster. I was not able to access the 
> > preferences dialog.
> > 
> > The last usenet client I tried is Unisom. Preferences are accessible and so 
> > are the menus and other pars of the application.   But the overall 
> > accessibility is less then pore. Some controls do respond to VO+space, 
> > others need the simulated mouse click, and some are triggered only by  a 
> > physical mouse click. The  message list is not easy to find, and the 
> > threaded view is not a list or a table but some kind of text area... I am 
> > not sure... :-)
> > 
> > Any help?
> > 
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Re: getting ring tones into my library, was hhow to separate your audio books and your music using vo within itunes?

[Jim Barbour]

Hello,

Here's a rehash of a message I posted to the viphone list a while ago
about getting ringtones from the iTunes store and a little about
creating your own from scratch.

Enjoy, and feel free to reply with questions.

Jim

-

Hey Everyone,

I spent some time playing with ringtones this morning.  Here are a few
things to note.

First, one can not buy ringtones directly from the iTunes store.  Even
if one searches for ringtones, what one can find and buy is an m4a
(music) version of the file.   To create ringtones with iTunes, 
one has to buy the music file first, and then pay the iTunes store an
additional 99 cents before iTunes will convert that music file into a
ringtone.  Let me reiterate this, if you are going to use the iTunes
store to get ringtones, you have to pay the iTunes store twice.  Once
to buy the music, and then again to pay for permission to convert it
to a ringtone.

Once you've decided to pay the extra 99 cents to the apple store,
here's how you make a ringtone.

1) In the menu bar, go to Edit, Preferences, and make sure Ringtones
   is checked.

2) find the music file you want to make a ring tone out of, and select
   it.  Again, it must be music that was purchased from the iTunes store.
   
3) in the menu bar, Go to store, create ringtone.  This brings up a
   sound editor kind of like Goldwave.  From here, you select the 30
   seconds of audio you want.  Note that voiceover doesn't work with
   this part, so if you don't have sighted assistance you're stuck
   with the first 30 seconds of the song, which is the default
   selection.

4) click the buy button.

5) The ringtone will download and appear in your ringtones folder.

Finally, let me point out that one does not need to use iTunes to
create ringtones, but other methods require additional software to do
your music editing, and a lot of general fiddling around with files.

here are the basic steps, without the details of how to use each program.
Several of us on this list know how to use Goldwave and iTunes if you
need assistance.

   1) Take your music file and use an audio editor (like Goldwave) to
  create a ringtone segment.  That is, a small (30 secs or less)
  slice of the music, that will be your ringtone.   Note that
  Goldwave can read and edit AAC files (files you bought from the
  iTunes store), but will save your segment as an mp3 file.

   2) Use iTunes to convert this segment to AAC format.  NOTE: if you
  can't find a "convert to AAC" option in the applications menu,
  check your CD import settings and make sure they are set to
  import CDs as AAC files.

   3) Rename the new segment file from whatever.m4a to whatever.m4r

   4) In iTunes, import the .m4r file.  control+o will bring up the
  import dialog, and then find and import the .m4r file.  This
  will put the m4r file in your ringtones folder, and will sync it
  to your iPhone.

I hope this sheds some light on this.

Take Care Everyone,

Jim

On Sun, Dec 05, 2010 at 10:41:15AM -0800, Marlaina Lieberg wrote:
> Tim,
> 
> Is this the method I can also use to get ring tones into my library?  God 
> knows then how I'll get them to my phone, I'm hoping a sync will do it, but 
> first I have to figure out how to get them from downloads to my library.  I'm 
> going to try your instructions below.
> 
> Marlaina
> 
> On Dec 5, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
> 
> Hi chenelle,
> 
> If you've imported an Audio Book from CD and you wish it to be placed in the 
> books portion of the sources List, do the following:
> 
> 1.  Select the book or books from the music library and then press cmd-i for 
> Get Info.
> 2.  Press on the Options tab.
> 3.  Press on the Kind pop-up and change it to Audio Book.
> 4.  Press OK.
> 
> All items that were selected will now be placed in the Books area of the 
> Sources List.
> 
> Later...
> 
> On 2010-12-05, at 10:50 AM, Chenelle Hancock wrote:
> 
> > 
> > hi eric,
> > i wanted to know  when putting  audio compact disc books like in the case 
> > of the harry potter series. how do i devide m my music library and the 
> > audio book library? also  this question can be answered off list if 
> > possible. i wanted to know where i could go to purchase the harry potter  
> > united kingdom  editions at? fill free to email me with  your answer to 
> > that question. 
> > i really appreciate it.
> > sincerely, chenelle
> > thanks again eric.
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "MacVisionaries" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at 
> > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> > 
> 
> -- 
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To post t

Re: getting ring tones into my library, was hhow to separate your audio books and your music using vo within itunes?

[Jim Barbour]

just changing m4a to m4r won't work.  You need to make sure it's short
enough, and then once you've renamed your .m4a file to an .m4r file,
you need to tell itunes to import it again.

Jim

On Sun, Dec 05, 2010 at 07:57:48PM +, Colin M wrote:
> Hi  all!
> You can make ringtones with Itunes I mean chop a track down to ringtones size!
> There is a thread about this in the archives somewhere!
> In this thread Jim talks about changing m4a to m4r!
> I do not have a Iphone so the m4a's work ok on my nokia but someone said in 
> that original thread they did not think just changing from m4a to m4r would 
> work !
> But if that does work then you can do it all with Itunes!
> No need for other software! :]
> Colin
> On 5 Dec 2010, at 19:22, Jim Barbour wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > Here's a rehash of a message I posted to the viphone list a while ago
> > about getting ringtones from the iTunes store and a little about
> > creating your own from scratch.
> > 
> > Enjoy, and feel free to reply with questions.
> > 
> > Jim
> > 
> > -
> > 
> > Hey Everyone,
> > 
> > I spent some time playing with ringtones this morning.  Here are a few
> > things to note.
> > 
> > First, one can not buy ringtones directly from the iTunes store.  Even
> > if one searches for ringtones, what one can find and buy is an m4a
> > (music) version of the file.   To create ringtones with iTunes, 
> > one has to buy the music file first, and then pay the iTunes store an
> > additional 99 cents before iTunes will convert that music file into a
> > ringtone.  Let me reiterate this, if you are going to use the iTunes
> > store to get ringtones, you have to pay the iTunes store twice.  Once
> > to buy the music, and then again to pay for permission to convert it
> > to a ringtone.
> > 
> > Once you've decided to pay the extra 99 cents to the apple store,
> > here's how you make a ringtone.
> > 
> > 1) In the menu bar, go to Edit, Preferences, and make sure Ringtones
> >   is checked.
> > 
> > 2) find the music file you want to make a ring tone out of, and select
> >   it.  Again, it must be music that was purchased from the iTunes store.
> > 
> > 3) in the menu bar, Go to store, create ringtone.  This brings up a
> >   sound editor kind of like Goldwave.  From here, you select the 30
> >   seconds of audio you want.  Note that voiceover doesn't work with
> >   this part, so if you don't have sighted assistance you're stuck
> >   with the first 30 seconds of the song, which is the default
> >   selection.
> > 
> > 4) click the buy button.
> > 
> > 5) The ringtone will download and appear in your ringtones folder.
> > 
> > Finally, let me point out that one does not need to use iTunes to
> > create ringtones, but other methods require additional software to do
> > your music editing, and a lot of general fiddling around with files.
> > 
> > here are the basic steps, without the details of how to use each program.
> > Several of us on this list know how to use Goldwave and iTunes if you
> > need assistance.
> > 
> >   1) Take your music file and use an audio editor (like Goldwave) to
> >  create a ringtone segment.  That is, a small (30 secs or less)
> >  slice of the music, that will be your ringtone.   Note that
> >  Goldwave can read and edit AAC files (files you bought from the
> >  iTunes store), but will save your segment as an mp3 file.
> > 
> >   2) Use iTunes to convert this segment to AAC format.  NOTE: if you
> >  can't find a "convert to AAC" option in the applications menu,
> >  check your CD import settings and make sure they are set to
> >  import CDs as AAC files.
> > 
> >   3) Rename the new segment file from whatever.m4a to whatever.m4r
> > 
> >   4) In iTunes, import the .m4r file.  control+o will bring up the
> >  import dialog, and then find and import the .m4r file.  This
> >  will put the m4r file in your ringtones folder, and will sync it
> >  to your iPhone.
> > 
> > I hope this sheds some light on this.
> > 
> > Take Care Everyone,
> > 
> > Jim
> > 
> > On Sun, Dec 05, 2010 at 10:41:15AM -0800, Marlaina Lieberg wrote:
> >> Tim,
> >> 
> >> Is this the method I can also use to get ring tones into my library?  God 
> >> knows then how I'll get them to my phone, I'm hoping a sync will do it, 
> >> but first I have to figure out how to get th

Re: getting ring tones into my library, was hhow to separate your audio books and your music using vo within itunes?

[Jim Barbour]

Apple wants to motivate you to use their 99 cents per song service to
get your ringtones.

That's why building your own is so fiddly.

On the other hand, that 99 cents per song helps to pay for voiceover.

Jim

On Sun, Dec 05, 2010 at 07:54:11PM +, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
> Why can't we just put an mp3 file in the ring tone section of Itunes?  all 
> the other smart phones accept mp3 files as ring tones so I don't understand 
> why the I phone can't?
> On 5 Dec 2010, at 19:22, Jim Barbour wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > Here's a rehash of a message I posted to the viphone list a while ago
> > about getting ringtones from the iTunes store and a little about
> > creating your own from scratch.
> > 
> > Enjoy, and feel free to reply with questions.
> > 
> > Jim
> > 
> > -
> > 
> > Hey Everyone,
> > 
> > I spent some time playing with ringtones this morning.  Here are a few
> > things to note.
> > 
> > First, one can not buy ringtones directly from the iTunes store.  Even
> > if one searches for ringtones, what one can find and buy is an m4a
> > (music) version of the file.   To create ringtones with iTunes, 
> > one has to buy the music file first, and then pay the iTunes store an
> > additional 99 cents before iTunes will convert that music file into a
> > ringtone.  Let me reiterate this, if you are going to use the iTunes
> > store to get ringtones, you have to pay the iTunes store twice.  Once
> > to buy the music, and then again to pay for permission to convert it
> > to a ringtone.
> > 
> > Once you've decided to pay the extra 99 cents to the apple store,
> > here's how you make a ringtone.
> > 
> > 1) In the menu bar, go to Edit, Preferences, and make sure Ringtones
> >   is checked.
> > 
> > 2) find the music file you want to make a ring tone out of, and select
> >   it.  Again, it must be music that was purchased from the iTunes store.
> > 
> > 3) in the menu bar, Go to store, create ringtone.  This brings up a
> >   sound editor kind of like Goldwave.  From here, you select the 30
> >   seconds of audio you want.  Note that voiceover doesn't work with
> >   this part, so if you don't have sighted assistance you're stuck
> >   with the first 30 seconds of the song, which is the default
> >   selection.
> > 
> > 4) click the buy button.
> > 
> > 5) The ringtone will download and appear in your ringtones folder.
> > 
> > Finally, let me point out that one does not need to use iTunes to
> > create ringtones, but other methods require additional software to do
> > your music editing, and a lot of general fiddling around with files.
> > 
> > here are the basic steps, without the details of how to use each program.
> > Several of us on this list know how to use Goldwave and iTunes if you
> > need assistance.
> > 
> >   1) Take your music file and use an audio editor (like Goldwave) to
> >  create a ringtone segment.  That is, a small (30 secs or less)
> >  slice of the music, that will be your ringtone.   Note that
> >  Goldwave can read and edit AAC files (files you bought from the
> >  iTunes store), but will save your segment as an mp3 file.
> > 
> >   2) Use iTunes to convert this segment to AAC format.  NOTE: if you
> >  can't find a "convert to AAC" option in the applications menu,
> >  check your CD import settings and make sure they are set to
> >  import CDs as AAC files.
> > 
> >   3) Rename the new segment file from whatever.m4a to whatever.m4r
> > 
> >   4) In iTunes, import the .m4r file.  control+o will bring up the
> >  import dialog, and then find and import the .m4r file.  This
> >  will put the m4r file in your ringtones folder, and will sync it
> >  to your iPhone.
> > 
> > I hope this sheds some light on this.
> > 
> > Take Care Everyone,
> > 
> > Jim
> > 
> > On Sun, Dec 05, 2010 at 10:41:15AM -0800, Marlaina Lieberg wrote:
> >> Tim,
> >> 
> >> Is this the method I can also use to get ring tones into my library?  God 
> >> knows then how I'll get them to my phone, I'm hoping a sync will do it, 
> >> but first I have to figure out how to get them from downloads to my 
> >> library.  I'm going to try your instructions below.
> >> 
> >> Marlaina
> >> 
> >> On Dec 5, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
> >> 
> >> Hi chenelle,
> >> 
> >> If you

Re: getting ring tones into my library, was hhow to separate your audio books and your music using vo within itunes?

[Jim Barbour]

Hey Scott and Recardo,

This is my thinking as well.   Further, accessibility is clearly not a
revenue generating project, but rather something that is good for
Apple as a whole.  Therefore, there's probably not a specific type of
funding that supports accessibility.

Therefore, any money apple makes grows the pie that accessibility
spending is taken from.

Take Care,

Jim

On Mon, Dec 06, 2010 at 05:26:22AM -0500, Scott Howell wrote:
> Ricardo,
> 
> I guess you could make the argument that any revenue Apple makes goes to 
> support of developing VoiceOver. ALthough your thinking out loud does bring 
> up an interesting point. Would the revenue generated from iTunes sales go to 
> support Apple's store efforts where software and hardware sales would be more 
> likely to fund those projects? I imagine Apple like most businesses probably 
> do have various buckets used for funding the various projects. However, in 
> the end the money probably goes wherever it is needed. :)
> Scott
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 6, 2010, at 4:29 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
> 
> > Hi Jim,
> > 
> > Why would the 99 cents for a ringtone go to voiceover?  Wouldn't that more 
> > than likely come from sales of IOS products?  I know it makes no difference 
> > either way.  I'm just thinking out loud. lol
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > Ricardo Walker
> > rwalker...@gmail.com
> > Twitter, Skype, and AIM: rwalker296
> > Google Voice: 1-646-450-2197
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Dec 5, 2010, at 4:53 PM, Jim Barbour wrote:
> > 
> >> Apple wants to motivate you to use their 99 cents per song service to
> >> get your ringtones.
> >> 
> >> That's why building your own is so fiddly.
> >> 
> >> On the other hand, that 99 cents per song helps to pay for voiceover.
> >> 
> >> Jim
> >> 
> >> On Sun, Dec 05, 2010 at 07:54:11PM +, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
> >>> Why can't we just put an mp3 file in the ring tone section of Itunes?  
> >>> all the other smart phones accept mp3 files as ring tones so I don't 
> >>> understand why the I phone can't?
> >>> On 5 Dec 2010, at 19:22, Jim Barbour wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>> Hello,
> >>>> 
> >>>> Here's a rehash of a message I posted to the viphone list a while ago
> >>>> about getting ringtones from the iTunes store and a little about
> >>>> creating your own from scratch.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Enjoy, and feel free to reply with questions.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Jim
> >>>> 
> >>>> -
> >>>> 
> >>>> Hey Everyone,
> >>>> 
> >>>> I spent some time playing with ringtones this morning.  Here are a few
> >>>> things to note.
> >>>> 
> >>>> First, one can not buy ringtones directly from the iTunes store.  Even
> >>>> if one searches for ringtones, what one can find and buy is an m4a
> >>>> (music) version of the file.   To create ringtones with iTunes, 
> >>>> one has to buy the music file first, and then pay the iTunes store an
> >>>> additional 99 cents before iTunes will convert that music file into a
> >>>> ringtone.  Let me reiterate this, if you are going to use the iTunes
> >>>> store to get ringtones, you have to pay the iTunes store twice.  Once
> >>>> to buy the music, and then again to pay for permission to convert it
> >>>> to a ringtone.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Once you've decided to pay the extra 99 cents to the apple store,
> >>>> here's how you make a ringtone.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 1) In the menu bar, go to Edit, Preferences, and make sure Ringtones
> >>>> is checked.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 2) find the music file you want to make a ring tone out of, and select
> >>>> it.  Again, it must be music that was purchased from the iTunes store.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 3) in the menu bar, Go to store, create ringtone.  This brings up a
> >>>> sound editor kind of like Goldwave.  From here, you select the 30
> >>>> seconds of audio you want.  Note that voiceover doesn't work with
> >>>> this part, so if you don't have sighted assistance you're stuck
> >>>> with the first 30 seconds of the song, which is the default
> >>>> selection.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 

Re: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

[Jim Barbour]

You can either write caraqu...@caraquinn.com and ask, or, you can...

1) goto http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries

2) sign in, creating a google account if necessary.

3) Click the "edit my memberships" link and sign up.

You'll still have to wait for approval, but I think there are multiple
moderators for the list, and any of them can approve you.

Take Care,

Jim

On Thu, Dec 09, 2010 at 03:20:46AM -0500, Isaac Obie wrote:
> Hello David,
> the Macvissionary list is private. You  can only join by invitation only.
> You have to write to the owner, Cara qu...@caraquinn.com Then you need to
> wait for her to catch up on her email. She's quite busy
> Isaac
> - Original Message - From: "David Hole" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 3:08 AM
> Subject: Fwd: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)
> 
> 
> >*Hi listers.
> >There are some people I know who would like to join Macvisionaries, but
> >they get a mail with the text following.
> >Can anyone here help?
> >They tried to send a mail to macvisionaries+subscr...@googlegroups.com .
> >But they got this reply.
> >To prevent publishing their mail-adresses, I have added xxx before the
> >@'s...
> >**
> >Fra: *Mail Delivery Subsystem  >>
> >>*Dato: *November 29, 2010 6:13:35 AM GMT+01:00
> >>*Til: *...@online.no 
> >>*Emne: **Delivery Status Notification (Failure)*
> >>
> >>Hello x...@online.no ,
> >>
> >>The group you attempted to subscribe to is invite only.  You must be
> >>invited by the group owner.
> >>
> >>If you have questions related to this or any other Google Group, visit
> >>the Help Center at http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US.
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>
> >>Google Groups
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>- Original message -
> >>
> >>Received: by 10.14.119.131 with SMTP id n3mr680774eeh.5.1291007614849;
> >>   Sun, 28 Nov 2010 21:13:34 -0800 (PST)
> >>Received: by 10.14.119.131 with SMTP id n3mr680773eeh.5.1291007614835;
> >>   Sun, 28 Nov 2010 21:13:34 -0800 (PST)
> >>Return-Path: mailto:toull...@online.no>>
> >>Received: from mail45.e.nsc.no  (mail45.e.nsc.no
> >> [193.213.115.45])
> >>   by gmr-mx.google.com  with ESMTP id
> >>r17si1555453eeh.3.2010.11.28.21.13.29;
> >>   Sun, 28 Nov 2010 21:13:34 -0800 (PST)
> >>Received-SPF: neutral (google.com : 193.213.115.45 is
> >>neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of
> >>x...@online.no ) client-ip=193.213.115.45;
> >>Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com ;
> >>spf=neutral (google.com : 193.213.115.45 is neither
> >>permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of x...@online.no
> >>) smtp.mail=...@online.no
> >>
> >>Received: from [192.168.1.102] (65.213.16.62.customer.cdi.no
> >>[62.16.213.65])
> >>(authenticated bits=0)
> >>by mail45.nsc.no  (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id
> >>oAT5Cq3o012386
> >>for  >>>; Mon, 29 Nov 2010
> >>06:13:29 +0100 (MET)
> >>From: x...@online.no 
> >>Content-Type: text/plain
> >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >>Subject:
> >>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 06:12:52 +0100
> >>Message-Id: <1a856cdd-62e3-407e-b8dc-6c9b35596...@online.no
> >>>
> >>To: macvisionaries+subscr...@googlegroups.com
> >>
> >>Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082)
> >>X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082)
> >>
> >>
> >
> >-- 
> >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >"MacVisionaries" group.
> >To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com.
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> >For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> >
> 
> -- 
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> 

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Re: jailbreaking?

[Jim Barbour]

The quick and dirty answer is that jailbreaking won't interfere
with how VO works with your existing (i.e non jailbroken) apps.

However, many jailbroken apps will not work with voiceover.  So, as a
voiceover user, you can successfully jailbreak your phone and continue
to use it.  However, there will be roadblocks to using many jailbroken
apps.

Others shoudl chime in with their experiences with jailbroken apps
that are accessible. I've seen a few of them posted here.

Jim

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:38:33AM -0600, Hypnotic Consulting wrote:
> Anyone have any experience with jailbreaking an i-device?
> The one article I read didn't really enlighten me, so I'll have to look
> again.
> But primarily, I'm wanting to make sure it won't interfere with vo.
> Thanks
> Jorge
> 
> -- 
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> 

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How to interact with a folder.

[Jim Barbour]

Howdy Folks,

Using voice over, I'm trying to bring up a terminal, which is in the
applications folder.  So far, I'm failing to figure out how to
navigate into and around the Applications folder.

Can someone let me know how to go about this?

Here's what I've tried so far...

VO + d to go to the dock
VO + right arrow several times until I hear "applications folder"
VO + space to open the folder.

At this point, I can see there's a window on the screen, and if I
use the arrow keys to move around inside it, I can see that different
icons are being highlighted.  However, VO does not speak.  If I use VO
+ arrow keys, voice over acts as if I'm still in the doc, even though
I've opened this window.

All help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Jim

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itunes

[Jim Barbour]

Hello and Merry/Happy Christmas!

I've been on an extended trip through Europe.  It has given me a
chance to get to know my new mac.

I'm much more comfortable with it, and am using it fairly fluently
now.

However, I have two questions about itunes I was hoping someone could
answer.  The Answer could very well may be that it isn't doable using
voiceover.

1) How do I find out what's in the "status" area at the top of the
itunes window?  This shows transfer status, what's playing, etc.

2) How do I interact with the column headers in the music table?  I'd
like to add/remove some headers  (visually done with a control+click
on any header), and sort on a different header (visually done by
clicking on the header)

Also, one non VO question.  I've written here before that you can
import a book as music into iTunes, and then change the media kind to
audiobook.  However, on my mac, these newly imported books will not
transfer to my iphone.  I've checked all my iphone settings in
iTunes.  Hearing that others are having this problem, not having this
problem, or have found a solution would help a lot.

Thanks for your time, and enjoy your holidays!

Jim

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Re: Transfering music from iTunes to either a thumb driver your external drive using vo.

[Jim Barbour]

You don't use itunes for this.  Just use the finder to find your music
directories (probably under ~/music) and then just copy/paste the
directories you want onto your thumb drive.

Take Care,

Jim

On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 11:28:26AM -0500, Chenelle Hancock wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,hhis do you go about transferingmusic from iTunes to your thumb 
> drive?.Chenellethanks
> 
> Sent from my iPhon e
> 
> -- 
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Re: audible.com mac os and book port authorization

[Jim Barbour]

I don't know a lot about the finder, but is it possible that the
AudibleActivation.sys file is hidden?  that is, it's on the original
card, but not being shown by the finder?

You might try opening a terminal and exploring the card looking for
the file.

Worst case, you'll need to download the audible manager application to
your mac and reauthorize your new card.

Good Luck,

Jim

On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 06:41:05PM -0600, Mike Arrigo wrote:
> If the mac still works with the previous card, I doubt it was bad, sometimes 
> reformatting a card will solve issues like this.
> On Jan 20, 2011, at 3:19 PM, Marlaina Lieberg wrote:
> 
> > Hi all.
> > 
> > I had to get a new SD card for my book port plus which stopped recognizing 
> > the previous card. I am now at a block in the road because I cannot figure 
> > out how to authorize my book port plus using my air.  I know there is a 
> > small file that gets put onto the sd card, and since the previous card 
> > still works on the air but not the book port, I looked for that file and 
> > can't find it.  The new card is working happily with nls books, but what do 
> > I need to do in the mac environment to authorize book port plus or the sd 
> > card so that I can listen to my audible books?  I feel like I should know 
> > this, but I do not.  Any help will be appreciated.
> > 
> > Marlaina
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> > For more options, visit this group at 
> > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> > 
> 
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Re: audible.com mac os and book port authorization

[Jim Barbour]

Thanks Ray, it helps to know that the file isn't hidden.

I believe that the AudibleActivation.sys file is in the root directory
on book port plus SD cards.

Jim

On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 06:55:06PM -0600, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
> The audibleactivation.sys is not hidden.  It's in the same folder as your 
> Audible books.  At least, it is on the Stream.  Now, of course, I realize the 
> original message was about the Book Port, but, I reckon the same would hold 
> true there also.
> 
> 
> Sincerely, 
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> 
> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
> 
> Skype Name:
> barefootedray
> 
> On Jan 20, 2011, at 6:47 PM, Jim Barbour wrote:
> 
> > I don't know a lot about the finder, but is it possible that the
> > AudibleActivation.sys file is hidden?  that is, it's on the original
> > card, but not being shown by the finder?
> > 
> > You might try opening a terminal and exploring the card looking for
> > the file.
> > 
> > Worst case, you'll need to download the audible manager application to
> > your mac and reauthorize your new card.
> > 
> > Good Luck,
> > 
> > Jim
> > 
> > On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 06:41:05PM -0600, Mike Arrigo wrote:
> >> If the mac still works with the previous card, I doubt it was bad, 
> >> sometimes reformatting a card will solve issues like this.
> >> On Jan 20, 2011, at 3:19 PM, Marlaina Lieberg wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Hi all.
> >>> 
> >>> I had to get a new SD card for my book port plus which stopped 
> >>> recognizing the previous card. I am now at a block in the road because I 
> >>> cannot figure out how to authorize my book port plus using my air.  I 
> >>> know there is a small file that gets put onto the sd card, and since the 
> >>> previous card still works on the air but not the book port, I looked for 
> >>> that file and can't find it.  The new card is working happily with nls 
> >>> books, but what do I need to do in the mac environment to authorize book 
> >>> port plus or the sd card so that I can listen to my audible books?  I 
> >>> feel like I should know this, but I do not.  Any help will be appreciated.
> >>> 
> >>> Marlaina
> >>> 
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Re: audible.com mac os and book port authorization

[Jim Barbour]

So, Ray says the file isn't hidden.  So, if you don't see it in
the root directory of your old SD card, then it sounds like maybe it
is no longer there.

You may need to get the audible manager application and regenerate the
file.

Jim

On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 04:59:27PM -0800, Marlaina Lieberg wrote:
> That is the file I do not see.  Is there a way to show hidden files because I 
> think this one is well and truly hidden!  I see the book port plus stuff such 
> as recent titles and so on, I see all the books but no audible activation 
> file.
> 
> I will take this to windows on my pc if I have  do, but really hope somebody 
> here can tell me how to expose a hidden file like this one.
> 
> Marlaina
> On Jan 20, 2011, at 4:53 PM, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
> 
> Yep, but, remember, before you format the card, make sure you copy the 
> Audibleactivate.sys file to another drive first.
> 
> 
> Sincerely, 
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> 
> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
> 
> Skype Name:
> barefootedray
> 
> On Jan 20, 2011, at 6:41 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
> 
> > If the mac still works with the previous card, I doubt it was bad, 
> > sometimes reformatting a card will solve issues like this.
> > On Jan 20, 2011, at 3:19 PM, Marlaina Lieberg wrote:
> > 
> >> Hi all.
> >> 
> >> I had to get a new SD card for my book port plus which stopped recognizing 
> >> the previous card. I am now at a block in the road because I cannot figure 
> >> out how to authorize my book port plus using my air.  I know there is a 
> >> small file that gets put onto the sd card, and since the previous card 
> >> still works on the air but not the book port, I looked for that file and 
> >> can't find it.  The new card is working happily with nls books, but what 
> >> do I need to do in the mac environment to authorize book port plus or the 
> >> sd card so that I can listen to my audible books?  I feel like I should 
> >> know this, but I do not.  Any help will be appreciated.
> >> 
> >> Marlaina
> >> 
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Re: anyone tried eharmony?

[Jim Barbour]

Wow!  "besides, just go outside" is a rather insensitive thing to
say.  I met my wife on E-harmony, and we're very happy together.

Unfortunately, I can't help with the web page issues.  I used it on a
windows machine, and I'm pretty sure I needed zoomtext to help make it
work.

Good Luck Karen,

Jim

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 12:33:38PM -0800, Scott Granados wrote:
> Just to add to this a little, eharmony was known for being a bad net citizen 
> for a long time.  Lots of problems with spamming and other bad practices.  
> This may have been addressed since but it's something to watch out for.
> 
> Besides, just go outside, you'll have better luck.:)  I honestly think you'll 
> have an easier time finding someone your a match with through common 
> activities or interests than website magic.
> 
> just my $.02
> 
> On Jan 22, 2011, at 9:16 AM, heather kd5cbl wrote:
> 
> > I had trouble with their site because, they give you sliding bars that, you 
> > cant select.  Of course, no one ever got back to me, humm.  Heather
> > - Original Message - From: "Karen Lewellen" 
> > 
> > To: "list voiceover" 
> > Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 3:51 AM
> > Subject: anyone tried eharmony?
> > 
> > 
> >> yes, this is on topic lol.
> >> Sort of in the same spirit of Carolin's site question at that place that 
> >> made me hungry...honeybaked I think.
> >> What is so amazing about eharmony is that no one has not made them fix 
> >> this already.  One of the reps told me they have had complaints before, 
> >> and yet on one of the critical sections, the in my own words part of the 
> >> profile, requires a physical mouse click to submit...no button whatsoever.
> >> I have tried both lynx as in the cat, and e-links which can usually manage 
> >> java scripting, but it is a mess.  some links work others do not etc.
> >> Does not help that the men they are sending are totally wrong for me lol. 
> >> Or maybe I should be glad since I cannot do much at all.
> >> if someone wants to really take a look, I may have to share my log in, do 
> >> not mind for the sake of some wisdom, because  it is amazing .
> >> Karen
> >> 
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Re: Victor Stream software for Mac?

[Jim Barbour]

mplayer for the mac should be able to convert VRStream notes to wave
files, and lame could then convert them to mp3s.

Good Luck,

Jim

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 06:17:48PM +1100, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> You can do everything with the Victor Reader Stream by hand, the only thing 
> you can't do is convert from the Victor Reader Streams audio format, that's 
> what the software does and that's only for Windows.
> 
> Now I believe that Humanware have an upgrade package for the Stream 
> available, this package allows for the recording of audio in other formats 
> such as Wave so perhaps you may wish to get this? That way you needen't worry 
> about the software issue at all.
> 
> All you need do for the material you want to read is plug the Stream into the 
> Mac, mac will then recognise the Stream as an external drive.
> 
> Copy your material to the Stream and remember that your material should go 
> into the folders on the Streams Memory card, the Stream treats each folder 
> differently so read the manual for more details, its built-in to the stream 
> and can be accessed through the bookshelf.
> 
> 
> On 22/01/2011, at 4:25 PM, Orin wrote:
> 
> > Hey all,
> > 
> > Since I know Humanware doesn't really support Mac, is there software to put 
> > content onto it? I thought someone had made a Mac version, just got a 
> > stream so will have to get it.
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > 
> > Orin
> > orin8...@gmail.com
> > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks
> > Skype: orin1112
> > 
> > 
> > 
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Re: Switching to Mac the missing manual

[Jim Barbour]

The other missing manual book from bookshare started working for me after I 
upgraded by stream to the latest firmware. 

Jim

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 23, 2011, at 7:08 PM, Zachary Kline  wrote:

> As someone who just downloaded the book recently, I can say that Bookshare's 
> copy works fine for me.
> 
> On Jan 23, 2011, at 6:59 PM, heather kd5cbl wrote:
> 
>> I don't know if bookshare ever fixed their coppy or not, it wasn't working 
>> the last time I tried. Heather
>> - Original Message - From: "Candie Stiles" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 8:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: Switching to Mac the missing manual
>> 
>> 
>> That book is available from book share if you'd like to download it there.
>> On Jan 23, 2011, at 2:03 PM, Carolyn Haas wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi:
>>> I wanted a purchased copy of this book, and thought I was finding a gem at 
>>> the app store.  I bought an iPad version, and it is a mess with VO.  I 
>>> brought it into my Apple store, and my trainer says indeed it isn't 
>>> accessible.  Guess I waisted $5.99.  That store can sure confuse me easily. 
>>>  I thought it was odd seeing that book as an App.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Anyhow, Guess I'm disrecommending the app.
>>> 
>>> Carolyn H
>>> 
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Re: VO accessible Chess, Checkers, Draughts and Xaingqi games released for iPhone, iPad & iTouch

[Jim Barbour]

I've been playing with chesswise, and it looks awesome! I'll
definately say so in the app store.

My only question is about the excercises.  The board is accessible,
but the explaination (what to do) appears not to be.  That is, I
couldn't find any text on the screen.  Has anyone played with this?

Well done Bryan, Scott, and of course Marcel!

Jim

On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 08:54:03PM -0500, Bryan Jones wrote:
> Greetings All,
> 
> Today Apple approved and released the accessible versions of Marcel Nijman's 
> Chess-wise Apps! In addition, Marcel modified three of his other game apps to 
> make them VO accessible. Those Apps are: Checker-wise, Draughts-wise and 
> Xiangqi-wise. These apps are all now available worldwide in the App Store and 
> in the following languages: English, Spanish, Russian, German and Dutch. 
> Marcel hopes to add Polish, Czech and French translations in the next update. 
> The viphone mailing list, Scott Howell and Geoff Waller in particular, were 
> instrumental in providing input, feedback and other information to Marcel 
> during this process.
> 
> Each of these four Apps is a universal App, which means they will run 
> correctly on the iPhone, iTouch and iPad. WHile there is a free version of 
> the Chess-wise App, I would urge you to consider purchasing the Pro version 
> to support Marcel's work. The price is only US $2.99 for the Chess and 
> Checker Apps, and only US $1.99 for the Draughts and Xiangqi Apps. I believe 
> Marcel is the kind of developer who deserves our support one hundred percent.
> 
> I've not tried the 3 other games yet, but I can tell you the Chessboard and 
> Chess pieces are now recognized and read aloud by VO. You can navigate the 
> board using a one-finger swipe, or you can just slide one finger around the 
> board and VO will announce the coordinates and the name of a piece if one 
> occupies that square. To make a move, use one finger to locate the piece you 
> want to move, then double-tap. VO will announce "Selected." Now use one 
> finger again to locate the destination square and double-tap again. Please 
> note that this is considered a first version of this game in it's accessible 
> form. While Marcel has made the heart of the App accessible, it is a very 
> feature-rich App which will require additional coding to make it fully 
> accessible. Marcel has asked that those of us who use the Apps provide 
> feedback to him so he can continue to refine and update the accessibility 
> features.
> 
> Here is a link to Marcel's App Gallery in the US iTunes store:
> http://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/marcel-nijman/id337888122
> 
> Here is a link to Chess-wise Pro in the US App Store:
> http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/chess-wise-pro/id351303981?mt=8
> 
> Here is a link to Chess-wise FREE in the US App Store:
> http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/chess-wise-free/id367318028?mt=8
> 
> Cheers,
> Bryan
> 
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Re: [Mac-cessibility News] The Mac-cessibility Round Table Podcast #11 - Autobots Don't Read; or, the 800 Pound Inaccessible Gorilla

[Jim Barbour]

Omobi is one, Google goggles is another.

These are disucssed fairly often on viph...@googlegroups.com

http://groups.google.com/group/viphone

Jim

On Fri, Feb 04, 2011 at 11:16:41AM -0700, Ed Worrell wrote:
> Hi I did catch the name of the picture identifier app that  you talked about 
> i  this podcast. It was Omobi or something like that
> 
> Could you send me a link to the app in the app store or maybe just send me 
> the name of the app it sounds useful.
> 
> Thanks ED
> 
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Re: VO accessible Chess, Checkers, Draughts and Xaingqi games released for iPhone, iPad & iTouch

[Jim Barbour]

These links are specifically for the US.  You can just search the
itunes app store for chess wise.  It *should* be in the Canadian
store, from what I've read on this list.

Jim

On Fri, Feb 04, 2011 at 04:45:19PM -0330, Doug Lawlor wrote:
> I just tried accessing the below iTunes link and get a message that "your 
> request could not be completed." Could someone else in Canada confirm if 
> these apps are avalable in Canada? I may be just doing something wrong here.  
> 
> Doug  
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 2011-02-03, at 10:24 PM, Bryan Jones  wrote:
> 
> > Greetings All,
> > 
> > Today Apple approved and released the accessible versions of Marcel 
> > Nijman's Chess-wise Apps! In addition, Marcel modified three of his other 
> > game apps to make them VO accessible. Those Apps are: Checker-wise, 
> > Draughts-wise and Xiangqi-wise. These apps are all now available worldwide 
> > in the App Store and in the following languages: English, Spanish, Russian, 
> > German and Dutch. Marcel hopes to add Polish, Czech and French translations 
> > in the next update. The viphone mailing list, Scott Howell and Geoff Waller 
> > in particular, were instrumental in providing input, feedback and other 
> > information to Marcel during this process.
> > 
> > Each of these four Apps is a universal App, which means they will run 
> > correctly on the iPhone, iTouch and iPad. WHile there is a free version of 
> > the Chess-wise App, I would urge you to consider purchasing the Pro version 
> > to support Marcel's work. The price is only US $2.99 for the Chess and 
> > Checker Apps, and only US $1.99 for the Draughts and Xiangqi Apps. I 
> > believe Marcel is the kind of developer who deserves our support one 
> > hundred percent.
> > 
> > I've not tried the 3 other games yet, but I can tell you the Chessboard and 
> > Chess pieces are now recognized and read aloud by VO. You can navigate the 
> > board using a one-finger swipe, or you can just slide one finger around the 
> > board and VO will announce the coordinates and the name of a piece if one 
> > occupies that square. To make a move, use one finger to locate the piece 
> > you want to move, then double-tap. VO will announce "Selected." Now use one 
> > finger again to locate the destination square and double-tap again. Please 
> > note that this is considered a first version of this game in it's 
> > accessible form. While Marcel has made the heart of the App accessible, it 
> > is a very feature-rich App which will require additional coding to make it 
> > fully accessible. Marcel has asked that those of us who use the Apps 
> > provide feedback to him so he can continue to refine and update the 
> > accessibility features.
> > 
> > Here is a link to Marcel's App Gallery in the US iTunes store:
> > http://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/marcel-nijman/id337888122
> > 
> > Here is a link to Chess-wise Pro in the US App Store:
> > http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/chess-wise-pro/id351303981?mt=8
> > 
> > Here is a link to Chess-wise FREE in the US App Store:
> > http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/chess-wise-free/id367318028?mt=8
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Bryan
> > 
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Re: GParted accessibil

[Jim Barbour]

Gparted is not accessible using voiceover.

Quoting from their web page "gparted is developed on Linux using
Gnome and X windows.  It can be used by other operating systems such
as mac and Windows bu booting off the gparted live disk."

So, it is possible that gparted my be accessible using a linux screen
reader like orca, but I wouldn't recommend going that route unless
you're already comfortable with a Gnome based screen reader.

Jim

On Fri, Feb 04, 2011 at 04:48:11PM -0800, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> Hello. Is GParted accessibil? ahere is a link at 
> http://gparted.sourceforge.net/ for more info. I don't know anything about 
> this kind of stuff so any help please.
> 
> S
> 
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Re: terminal: creating a alias

[Jim Barbour]

It should work the same way.

There may not be a default file, but you can always edit ~/.bashrc and
add aliases there.

Jim

On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 12:37:05AM +0100, William Windels wrote:
> Hello all, I have a question about the terminal:
> 
> In the classic linux distributions that run with bash, there is a 
> .bashrc-file where you can add aliases.
> A alias gives the possibility to make a short string=command for a long 
> instruction.
> a example can be:
> alias commandtest='this are all the commands that are executed when 
> commandtest is typed'
> 
> I would like to make aliases in terminal for some commands but I can't find 
> the .bashrc-file.
> 
> Can someone give me some hints how this works on a mac?
> 
> Thanx for your help!
> 
> best regards,
> William 
> 
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Re: terminal: creating a alias

[Jim Barbour]

This email is written while I'm in a whiny mood   Fair warning!

What I want to know is how people are surviving the truely crappy
terminal support in VO.  Crappy, in this case, comes from comparing it
to TTY based speech programs for UNIX such as yasr.


When I run commands in the terminal, VO doesn't speak what's written
to standard out.  I realize I can capture all to a file, but I really
shouldn't need to do that.  VO also doesn't have a good way of telling
me which row/column I'm on and won't read line by line when I arrow up
and down.

I'm seriously thinking of taking a shot at porting yasr from freebsd
to Mac.  Anyone else think this is a good idea?

Thanks for putting up with my rant.  You guys are all awesome,

Jim

On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 12:23:02AM +, Esther wrote:
> Hello William,
> 
> The most complete answer to your question is to point you to "Take Control of 
> the Mac Command Line in Terminal" by Joe Kissell, which explains how to 
> create .bashrc files, what you can specify in that file, how to create 
> aliases, and many more details for questions that you will probably end up 
> posting one by one.  It's available from the Take Control Books site for 
> $10.00:
> http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/command-line
> Some of the Take Control books are available in the iBooks store, but manu, 
> including this one, are not.  Also,  if you buy directly from the Take 
> Control web site you get access to multiple format versions (in addition to 
> the direct download in PDF) from login on the web site.  This includes a 
> folder of alternate formats (including ePub) from your account (e.g., list of 
> links will be "Take Control of the Mac Command Line in Terminal", which links 
> to the web page URL with description given above, then a link to the version 
> number, which links the latest PDF version, then the "Dowload" link which 
> links a folder with alternate available formats (e.g., ePub, mobi, Android 
> format in some cases).  Your library comes up when you log into your account, 
> and you always have access to the latest minor revision versions of each 
> book.  These read easily in Preview, and you can load the ePub version into 
> iBooks.  (Unfortunately, you cannot upload ePub versions of the books 
> directly into iBooks, the way I can if I purchase these same titles from 
> oreilly.com, and access my account's purchased ebook links from the login 
> page).  
> 
> HTH.  Cheers,
> 
> Esther 
>  
> On Feb 07, 2011, at 01:37 PM, William Windels  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello all, I have a question about the terminal:
> 
> In the classic linux distributions that run with bash, there is a 
> .bashrc-file where you can add aliases.
> A alias gives the possibility to make a short string=command for a long 
> instruction.
> a example can be:
> alias commandtest='this are all the commands that are executed when 
> commandtest is typed'
> 
> I would like to make aliases in terminal for some commands but I can't find 
> the .bashrc-file.
> 
> Can someone give me some hints how this works on a mac?
> 
> Thanx for your help!
> 
> best regards,
> William
> 
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Re: terminal: creating a alias

[Jim Barbour]

Jon,

I'd suggest doing the OpenNMS development on the same platform they
intend to run their enterprise on.  This is likely not the Mac.

Good Luck,

Jim

On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 09:56:49AM -0500, Jonathan C. Cohn wrote:
> Hmm,  I have yet to use a Linux speech package, though I did just load up 
> FINK for my Macintosh and it does support quite a few OpenSource tools beyond 
> what is present in the Macintosh.
> 
> In terms of the terminal,  I have no issues with line by line as long as the 
> scroll back buffer is kept to a reasonable size.  You do have to "interact" 
> with the text section. 
> In terms of controlling the scrollback there are two options 
> 1. set the scrollback  size in the preferences to something less then 100,000
> 2. On occasion type command-K to clear the scroll back.
> 
> Can somebody provide me a recording of how Linux behaves with Speech 
> technology or point me to such a beast?
> 
> I am having to do some openNMS development and am wondering if I should go 
> out and by a used box to put the code on rather then using the FINK toolset.
> 
> Jon
> 
> On Feb 7, 2011, at 6:37 PM, William Windels wrote:
> 
> > Hello all, I have a question about the terminal:
> > 
> > In the classic linux distributions that run with bash, there is a 
> > .bashrc-file where you can add aliases.
> > A alias gives the possibility to make a short string=command for a long 
> > instruction.
> > a example can be:
> > alias commandtest='this are all the commands that are executed when 
> > commandtest is typed'
> > 
> > I would like to make aliases in terminal for some commands but I can't find 
> > the .bashrc-file.
> > 
> > Can someone give me some hints how this works on a mac?
> > 
> > Thanx for your help!
> > 
> > best regards,
> > William 
> > 
> > -- 
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Re: terminal: creating a alias

[Jim Barbour]

I'd actaully suggest yasr instead of speakup.

It runs entirely in user space, and you just kick one off for every
terminal you start up.

Jim

On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 09:04:59AM -0800, Zachary Kline wrote:
> Hi Jonathan,
> Speakup under Linux is still a highly distribution-specific proposition at 
> this point, though hopefully since it was recently integrated into the 
> mainline kernel that will be changing soon.  Your best bet for trying the 
> system out is to install with software speech, as hardware synthesizers and 
> the serial or other interfaces they depend on are becoming notably scarce 
> lately.
> My favorite Linux distribution with software Speech is ArchLinux, for which a 
> talking installation CD with instructions can be found at 
> http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux_for_the_blind
> Those instructions have changed a bit since kernel 2.6.37 came out.  You no 
> longer need to install the speakup package, as described there, though you do 
> still need alsa and espeakup.
> Hope this helps,
> Zack.
> On Feb 8, 2011, at 6:56 AM, Jonathan C. Cohn wrote:
> 
> > Hmm,  I have yet to use a Linux speech package, though I did just load up 
> > FINK for my Macintosh and it does support quite a few OpenSource tools 
> > beyond what is present in the Macintosh.
> > 
> > In terms of the terminal,  I have no issues with line by line as long as 
> > the scroll back buffer is kept to a reasonable size.  You do have to 
> > "interact" with the text section. 
> > In terms of controlling the scrollback there are two options 
> > 1. set the scrollback  size in the preferences to something less then 
> > 100,000
> > 2. On occasion type command-K to clear the scroll back.
> > 
> > Can somebody provide me a recording of how Linux behaves with Speech 
> > technology or point me to such a beast?
> > 
> > I am having to do some openNMS development and am wondering if I should go 
> > out and by a used box to put the code on rather then using the FINK toolset.
> > 
> > Jon
> > 
> > On Feb 7, 2011, at 6:37 PM, William Windels wrote:
> > 
> >> Hello all, I have a question about the terminal:
> >> 
> >> In the classic linux distributions that run with bash, there is a 
> >> .bashrc-file where you can add aliases.
> >> A alias gives the possibility to make a short string=command for a long 
> >> instruction.
> >> a example can be:
> >> alias commandtest='this are all the commands that are executed when 
> >> commandtest is typed'
> >> 
> >> I would like to make aliases in terminal for some commands but I can't 
> >> find the .bashrc-file.
> >> 
> >> Can someone give me some hints how this works on a mac?
> >> 
> >> Thanx for your help!
> >> 
> >> best regards,
> >> William 
> >> 
> >> -- 
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Re: Send/Receipt requests in Mail

[Jim Barbour]

Hello Michael,

Anyone using standard SMTP based mail (whether it be Mac Mail,
Thunderbird, Outlook, or something else) will not be able to track
when an email message they've sent out gets read, it just isn't
possible.

So, the question is, what are your workmates using to read their mail,
and would it benefit you to use what they're using?  What exactly
are the requirements that are driving this question?  If the
requirement truely is that you need to know when someone has read your
mail, or they someone needs to know when you've read their mail, then
I'd say it isn't possible unless you are all using some proprietary
email system that supports this (not sure which one that would be)

I'd be happy to help more with this, if you can provide more
information.

Jim

On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 10:25:10AM +0100, Michael Busboom wrote:
> Greetings to all of you,
> 
> Here at work, there have been several misunderstandings about mail that was 
> allegedly sent to me, but was ignored by me.  For my own protection, I need 
> to be able to know when people read my mail, and I also need to be able to 
> generate receipt requests.  this is critical, unfortunately.  If I can't get 
> the problem resolved, my only alternative is to use either Thunderbird or 
> Outlook running under Windows, which I will do, though I would much rather 
> stick with Apple's Mail.
> 
> Can anyone give me definitive suggestions?
> 
> Thank you very much in advance,
> 
> Mike
> 
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Re: Send/Receipt requests in Mail

[Jim Barbour]

Hey Carolyn,

Yes, but a return receipt would be sent when the email is delivered to
the imap server, not when the recipient downloads it and certainly not 
when they read it.

Take Care,

Jim

On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 10:58:53AM -0700, Carolyn Haas wrote:
> Hi Jim:
> If I remember right there is a setting in Outlook express, and possibly in 
> Outlook that automatically requests a return receipt.  I personally always 
> thought it was useless, but I've also gotten the "return Receipt requested 
> message on some incoming emails.
> 
> I wonder if there's anything in Google server settings for this.
> Carolyn H
> On Feb 14, 2011, at 7:42 AM, Jim Barbour wrote:
> 
> > Hello Michael,
> > 
> > Anyone using standard SMTP based mail (whether it be Mac Mail,
> > Thunderbird, Outlook, or something else) will not be able to track
> > when an email message they've sent out gets read, it just isn't
> > possible.
> > 
> > So, the question is, what are your workmates using to read their mail,
> > and would it benefit you to use what they're using?  What exactly
> > are the requirements that are driving this question?  If the
> > requirement truely is that you need to know when someone has read your
> > mail, or they someone needs to know when you've read their mail, then
> > I'd say it isn't possible unless you are all using some proprietary
> > email system that supports this (not sure which one that would be)
> > 
> > I'd be happy to help more with this, if you can provide more
> > information.
> > 
> > Jim
> > 
> > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 10:25:10AM +0100, Michael Busboom wrote:
> >> Greetings to all of you,
> >> 
> >> Here at work, there have been several misunderstandings about mail that 
> >> was allegedly sent to me, but was ignored by me.  For my own protection, I 
> >> need to be able to know when people read my mail, and I also need to be 
> >> able to generate receipt requests.  this is critical, unfortunately.  If I 
> >> can't get the problem resolved, my only alternative is to use either 
> >> Thunderbird or Outlook running under Windows, which I will do, though I 
> >> would much rather stick with Apple's Mail.
> >> 
> >> Can anyone give me definitive suggestions?
> >> 
> >> Thank you very much in advance,
> >> 
> >> Mike
> >> 
> >> -- 
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> >> 
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Re: Send/Receipt requests in Mail

[Jim Barbour]

Hey Everyone,

I did some more digging here, and found out that the answer is that
you need to use outlook.  Read on...

1) Mail Disposition Noticiation (MDN) does exist, but is very poorly
   supported; mainly because it's so easy to get around.

   However, outlook does respect MDN requests.
   
   The documentation is pretty clear that return receipts are not
   reliable, but people use them anyway.

   See here for more info.
   
   
http://www.chilkatsoft.com/braindump/email_headers/Disposition-Notification-To_header.html

2) You can request a return receipt from any mail program, including
   Mac Mail.  However, Mac Mail does not respect other people's
   requests for a return receipt.

   See here for more info.
   
   http://email.about.com/od/macosxmailtips/qt/et_request_recp.htm

3) If your office is insisting that you respect other people's
   requests for a return receipt, you'll need to use Outlook.  I
   did some googling, but couldn't find another email client that
   respects these requests.

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 02:55:13AM -0500, Geoff Waaler wrote:
> Actually, when using a client such as MSOE, receipts are sent upon opening 
> when a header shows a read receipt.  By default it presents a dialog box 
> where one can optionally blow off sending the receipt.  This, IMHO adversely 
> impacts the utility of the read receipt feature.  More over, in OE (and 
> presumably Outlook as well) it's possible to configure message reading 
> options such that receipts are never sent without even having to deal with 
> the dialog box.
> 
> None of this is really helpful to Mike though.  Perhaps the best solution is 
> to use filters as someone suggested earlier as well as a CC on your own 
> address?
> 
> Best regards.
> Geoff
> 
> On Feb 14, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Jim Barbour wrote:
> 
> > Hey Carolyn,
> > 
> > Yes, but a return receipt would be sent when the email is delivered to
> > the imap server, not when the recipient downloads it and certainly not 
> > when they read it.
> > 
> > Take Care,
> > 
> > Jim
> > 
> > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 10:58:53AM -0700, Carolyn Haas wrote:
> >> Hi Jim:
> >> If I remember right there is a setting in Outlook express, and possibly in 
> >> Outlook that automatically requests a return receipt.  I personally always 
> >> thought it was useless, but I've also gotten the "return Receipt requested 
> >> message on some incoming emails.
> >> 
> >> I wonder if there's anything in Google server settings for this.
> >> Carolyn H
> >> On Feb 14, 2011, at 7:42 AM, Jim Barbour wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Hello Michael,
> >>> 
> >>> Anyone using standard SMTP based mail (whether it be Mac Mail,
> >>> Thunderbird, Outlook, or something else) will not be able to track
> >>> when an email message they've sent out gets read, it just isn't
> >>> possible.
> >>> 
> >>> So, the question is, what are your workmates using to read their mail,
> >>> and would it benefit you to use what they're using?  What exactly
> >>> are the requirements that are driving this question?  If the
> >>> requirement truely is that you need to know when someone has read your
> >>> mail, or they someone needs to know when you've read their mail, then
> >>> I'd say it isn't possible unless you are all using some proprietary
> >>> email system that supports this (not sure which one that would be)
> >>> 
> >>> I'd be happy to help more with this, if you can provide more
> >>> information.
> >>> 
> >>> Jim
> >>> 
> >>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 10:25:10AM +0100, Michael Busboom wrote:
> >>>> Greetings to all of you,
> >>>> 
> >>>> Here at work, there have been several misunderstandings about mail that 
> >>>> was allegedly sent to me, but was ignored by me.  For my own protection, 
> >>>> I need to be able to know when people read my mail, and I also need to 
> >>>> be able to generate receipt requests.  this is critical, unfortunately.  
> >>>> If I can't get the problem resolved, my only alternative is to use 
> >>>> either Thunderbird or Outlook running under Windows, which I will do, 
> >>>> though I would much rather stick with Apple's Mail.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Can anyone give me definitive suggestions?
> >>>> 
> >>>> Thank you very much in advance,
> >>>> 
> >>>> Mi

Re: Terminal question, magicjack issue

[Jim Barbour]

No, there is no wrapping going on here.

ls is saying there is a directory called .magicJack, and inside there
is a file called ISA Softphone

By default, when you pass a directory to ls, it lists everything
inside the directory.  Passing a -d flag to ls stops this behavior.

ls -d .*

will show you the directory without it's contents.

Jim


The short answer is to add a -d to the ls command.

The longer answer is that by default ls lists all the 

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:52:15PM +, .dan. wrote:
> 
> I want to remove all magicjack software from the hd.  I found two places
> where a directory and included files were and removed them.
> 
> When doing in my home directory:
> 
> ls .*
> 
> Note that is ls period plus star, to find hidden directories I get this two
> line response:
> 
> .magicJack:
> ISA Softphone
> 
> Note the response is on two lines.  This suggests in an attempt to keep
> people out they used a long name which is getting wrapped in the ls
> response.  The magicJack part is on one line and the rest on the next. The
> second line names are seperated by several spaces.
> 
> Has anyone an idea how to get into that directory and/or remove its
> contents?
> 
> 
>XB
> IC|XC
> 
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Re: [Bulk] Re: My 2 cents about the inaccessibility of the set up of drop box

[Jim Barbour]

Are you suggesting that every developer should make sure that every
app is VO accessible before the app store carries it?  That wuld be
tantamount to saying that every app must be availble in, insert
obscure written language here, before it could be sold in the iTunes
store.

So, I say to pick your battles and try to be nice to the folks you're
negotiating with.

Jim

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 04:27:51PM -0800, louie wrote:
> Like I said they don't care and they don't have to.
> Every one that put me down for saying the above what do you have to say now.
> 
> On Feb 23, 2011, at 3:05 PM, Michael Thurman wrote:
> 
> > well honestly I don't think it matters what we do short of a class action 
> > lawsuit because like most things  noone cares unless you bust them over the 
> > head with a 2x4 lol  most buisness people I uspect are abotu as stubborn as 
> > mules
> > 
> > On Feb 22, 2011, at 1:47 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
> > 
> >> Sounds typically militant.
> >> 
> >> You won't get any results with a message like this.  It's the quickest way 
> >> to get your requests sent to /dev/null.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Feb 22, 2011, at 3:41 AM, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Look, here's how I see it.  They've been telling us for about two years 
> >>> that they know about the accessibility issues witth Drop Box.  Every 
> >>> single time one of us writes them about it, all we hear back is, "We're 
> >>> aware of the problem".  I reckon it's high time one of us or maybe a 
> >>> bunch of us wrote them and frankly said something like this:
> >>> 
> >>> "
> >>> "Every single time any one of us has written you about the accessibility 
> >>> problems we've been having with Drop Box, all we hear from you is, 
> >>> ""We're aware of it and are working on it."".  Really?  Where's the 
> >>> evidence of your work?  You keep saying that you are aware, yet, we see 
> >>> no results.  To speak frankly, we are beginning  to wonder wheterh or not 
> >>> you really actually care; even if you are aware.  What do we have to do 
> >>> to make you understand that, if we're going to use your service, 
> >>> (especially if we're going to pay for it), we'd better be able to use it? 
> >>>  What will it take?".  Yes, I think at least one of us; or, as I said 
> >>> before, a number of us, ought to just put it out on the table just like 
> >>> that.  Just one of us isn't enough.  We need to do this on a daily basis 
> >>> until they realize that we WILL, NOT, BE, IGNORED!!!
> >>> 
> >>> Thoughts?
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Sincerely,
> >>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> >>> 
> >>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
> >>> Skype name:
> >>> barefootedray
> >>> 
> >>> Facebook:
> >>> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
> >>> 
> >>> On Feb 22, 2011, at 2:43 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> >>> 
>  O can set it up fine. But you have a point there. 
>  
>  On 22/02/2011, at 0:31, Jes Smith  wrote:
>  
> > Hi all.
> > As far as I'm concerned, the complete inaccessibility of Drop Box on 
> > the Mac is inexcusable. And, I tell you this, if I was the CEO of 
> > Apple, developers would either write their code based on Apple's 
> > accessibility guidelines, or, there programs would just be rejected. 
> > IT's a black and white issue as far as I'm concerned.
> > I mean, mercy! IT's bad enough that we couldn't access the drop box 
> > menu, but now that we can't even set the client up without sighted 
> > help? And honestly, I don't think petitions would do a lot for our 
> > cause. Individual complaints have been sent to drop box for over two 
> > years, and they've done nothing to show us that they hear our cries for 
> > accessibility. I'd sign the petition, but don't think it will help much.
> > 
> > -- 
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> > 
>  
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> >>> 
> >>> 
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Re: [Bulk] Re: My 2 cents about the inaccessibility of the set up of drop box

[Jim Barbour]

Er, apologies for the reference to the iTunes store.  I forgot which
list I was writing to.

My point stands though.  It is not realistic to assume that every Mac
application should be voiceover friendly before the developer can make
money from it.

Jim

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 04:39:40PM -0800, Jim Barbour wrote:
> Are you suggesting that every developer should make sure that every
> app is VO accessible before the app store carries it?  That wuld be
> tantamount to saying that every app must be availble in, insert
> obscure written language here, before it could be sold in the iTunes
> store.
> 
> So, I say to pick your battles and try to be nice to the folks you're
> negotiating with.
> 
> Jim
> 
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 04:27:51PM -0800, louie wrote:
> > Like I said they don't care and they don't have to.
> > Every one that put me down for saying the above what do you have to say now.
> > 
> > On Feb 23, 2011, at 3:05 PM, Michael Thurman wrote:
> > 
> > > well honestly I don't think it matters what we do short of a class action 
> > > lawsuit because like most things  noone cares unless you bust them over 
> > > the head with a 2x4 lol  most buisness people I uspect are abotu as 
> > > stubborn as mules
> > > 
> > > On Feb 22, 2011, at 1:47 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
> > > 
> > >> Sounds typically militant.
> > >> 
> > >> You won't get any results with a message like this.  It's the quickest 
> > >> way to get your requests sent to /dev/null.
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> On Feb 22, 2011, at 3:41 AM, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
> > >> 
> > >>> Look, here's how I see it.  They've been telling us for about two years 
> > >>> that they know about the accessibility issues witth Drop Box.  Every 
> > >>> single time one of us writes them about it, all we hear back is, "We're 
> > >>> aware of the problem".  I reckon it's high time one of us or maybe a 
> > >>> bunch of us wrote them and frankly said something like this:
> > >>> 
> > >>> "
> > >>> "Every single time any one of us has written you about the 
> > >>> accessibility problems we've been having with Drop Box, all we hear 
> > >>> from you is, ""We're aware of it and are working on it."".  Really?  
> > >>> Where's the evidence of your work?  You keep saying that you are aware, 
> > >>> yet, we see no results.  To speak frankly, we are beginning  to wonder 
> > >>> wheterh or not you really actually care; even if you are aware.  What 
> > >>> do we have to do to make you understand that, if we're going to use 
> > >>> your service, (especially if we're going to pay for it), we'd better be 
> > >>> able to use it?  What will it take?".  Yes, I think at least one of us; 
> > >>> or, as I said before, a number of us, ought to just put it out on the 
> > >>> table just like that.  Just one of us isn't enough.  We need to do this 
> > >>> on a daily basis until they realize that we WILL, NOT, BE, IGNORED!!!
> > >>> 
> > >>> Thoughts?
> > >>> 
> > >>> 
> > >>> Sincerely,
> > >>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> > >>> 
> > >>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
> > >>> Skype name:
> > >>> barefootedray
> > >>> 
> > >>> Facebook:
> > >>> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
> > >>> 
> > >>> On Feb 22, 2011, at 2:43 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> > >>> 
> > >>>> O can set it up fine. But you have a point there. 
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> On 22/02/2011, at 0:31, Jes Smith  wrote:
> > >>>> 
> > >>>>> Hi all.
> > >>>>> As far as I'm concerned, the complete inaccessibility of Drop Box on 
> > >>>>> the Mac is inexcusable. And, I tell you this, if I was the CEO of 
> > >>>>> Apple, developers would either write their code based on Apple's 
> > >>>>> accessibility guidelines, or, there programs would just be rejected. 
> > >>>>> IT's a black and white issue as far as I'm concerned.
> > >>>>> I mean, mercy! IT's bad enough that we couldn't access the drop box 
>

Re: [Bulk] Re: My 2 cents about the inaccessibility of the set up of drop box

[Jim Barbour]

We've had several discussions on the viphone list about this.
People's opinions vary on this subject, mine is below.

There is currently no "bar" that is well defined about what it means
to be accessible using VO.

We've talked about just allowing users to rate a product based on
accessibility or something like "VO friendliness"

I think it would be very hard to regulate in a reliable way.

Jim

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 01:24:14PM +, Colin M wrote:
> Hi all!
> As someone else said it is not Apples place to make dev's add accessibility!
> But [ and I do not know how this would work] could the apps star rating be 
> made, so it would only get 5 stars if it is accessible!
> Somehow only people who use accessibility could put a rating that no one else 
> can put!
> And without it an app would never reach 5 stars!
> Oh well its just a thought!
> And back to the protest a lot of us have Skype and some of you are good at 
> podcast's and can record Skype!
> So if a lot of us could put our issue via Skype and someone could put it 
> together and chuck it out on U tube or facebook might that help!
> I would not mind speaking for this purpose!
> We do not have to be nasty just show our problem!
> All the best!
> Colin!
> Qapla!
> 
> Chegh chew jaj Vam jaj Kak
> 
> On 24 Feb 2011, at 12:25, Michael Thurman wrote:
> 
> > yes but when an ap WAS accessible and no longer is that should be criminal
> > and is disgusting  let's hope that they give a damn and fix it  if all 
> > developers didn't care about s we wouldn't have the mac at all and i think 
> > apple does realise that a lot of us are turning to the mac for 
> > accessibility and I hope they understand that we will turn as quickly away 
> > and sell our expensive pretty machies if they become inaccessible
> > On Feb 23, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Jim Barbour wrote:
> > 
> >> Er, apologies for the reference to the iTunes store.  I forgot which
> >> list I was writing to.
> >> 
> >> My point stands though.  It is not realistic to assume that every Mac
> >> application should be voiceover friendly before the developer can make
> >> money from it.
> >> 
> >> Jim
> >> 
> >> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 04:39:40PM -0800, Jim Barbour wrote:
> >>> Are you suggesting that every developer should make sure that every
> >>> app is VO accessible before the app store carries it?  That wuld be
> >>> tantamount to saying that every app must be available in, insert
> >>> obscure written language here, before it could be sold in the iTunes
> >>> store.
> >>> 
> >>> So, I say to pick your battles and try to be nice to the folks you're
> >>> negotiating with.
> >>> 
> >>> Jim
> >>> 
> >>> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 04:27:51PM -0800, louie wrote:
> >>>> Like I said they don't care and they don't have to.
> >>>> Every one that put me down for saying the above what do you have to say 
> >>>> now.
> >>>> 
> >>>> On Feb 23, 2011, at 3:05 PM, Michael Thurman wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>>> well honestly I don't think it matters what we do short of a class 
> >>>>> action lawsuit because like most things  noone cares unless you bust 
> >>>>> them over the head with a 2x4 lol  most business people I uspect are 
> >>>>> abotu as stubborn as mules
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> On Feb 22, 2011, at 1:47 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>> Sounds typically militant.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> You won't get any results with a message like this.  It's the quickest 
> >>>>>> way to get your requests sent to /dev/null.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> On Feb 22, 2011, at 3:41 AM, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Look, here's how I see it.  They've been telling us for about two 
> >>>>>>> years that they know about the accessibility issues witth Drop Box.  
> >>>>>>> Every single time one of us writes them about it, all we hear back 
> >>>>>>> is, "We're aware of the problem".  I reckon it's high time one of us 
> >>>>>>> or maybe a bunch of us wrote them and frankly said something like 
> >>>>>>> this:
> >&

Re: Looking for keyboard commands for file, edit, view etc.

[Jim Barbour]

When you say "I should be able to", you really mean "windows allows me to"

I'm afraid the mac doesn't have menu keys like windows does.  It does
have short cut keys for individual menu items.

If you want to navigate around the menus, you need to type VO+M and
then use the arrow keys and VO+space to find and select an item.

Take Care,

Jim

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 10:27:16AM -0800, Kevin Gibbs wrote:
> Guys,
> I'm still learning to move from JAWS to VO, and from Windows to Mac.
> What I'm looking for is the equivalent  of Alt F for file menu, Alt E
> for edit menu and so on.  I don't want to always type VO M and then
> right arrow tot he menu I want.  I should be able to type something
> like Command F for file, Command E for edit and so on.  What's the
> answer?
> Thanks,
> Kevin
> 
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Re: converting pdf, and ppt(x) with the command-line

[Jim Barbour]

Google around for ppt2html

Jim

On Tue, Mar 01, 2011 at 01:17:03AM +0100, William Windels wrote:
> Hello Tim,
> it works great, thx.
> 
> Do you know also another program that can convert ppt(x) files on the console?
> 
> Thanx ,
> 
> best regards,
> William 
> Op 27-feb-2011, om 23:11 heeft Tim Kilburn het volgende geschreven:
> 
> > Hi William,
> > 
> > Try the pdftotext Shell tool found at:
> > 
> > http://www.bluem.net/en/mac/others/
> > 
> > I've had success with this tool.  It will place a text version of your pdf 
> > into the same location as the original pdf document.  It will not translate 
> > protected PDFs.
> > 
> > HTH.
> > 
> > Later...
> > 
> > On 2011-02-27, at 6:29 AM, William Windels wrote:
> > 
> >> Hi all,
> >> I am looking for a way to convert pdf's to text: rtf, txt.
> >> 
> >> It should be something on the command-prompt, if possible.
> >> On this way, I can convert very quickly , different files.
> >> The included program textutils, can do such convertions but , 
> >> unfortunately, not for pdf.
> >> 
> >> Or, another option , perhaps already available on a mac, should be simply 
> >> to print a pdf to a file:
> >> command :
> >> printcommand file.pdf >>outputfile.txt
> >> 
> >> All hints are very welcome,
> >> 
> >> best regards,
> >> William Windels
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> >> "MacVisionaries" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
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> >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> >> 
> > 
> > Tim Kilburn
> > Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> > 
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Re: litle script question

[Jim Barbour]

Try this...

#!/bin/bash
shopt -s nullglob
# no need for ls, echo is built-in to the shell
var=$( echo *.txt )
if [ -n "$var" ]; then
  echo "yes"
else
  echo "no"
fi


On Fri, Mar 04, 2011 at 12:35:06AM +0100, William Windels wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Can someone help me with a litle bash-script?
> 
> I would like to test if there is a txt-file in the current working directory.
> 
> I was thinking about the following code for the bashscript:
> 
> var=${ls *.txt}  && if [ -n "$var" ]; then echo "yes" else echo "no" ; fi
> 
> The error I have here is:
> ${ls *.txt}: bad substitution
> 
> the -n options looks if the variable is not empty , I think.
> 
> Could someone help me pls?
> 
> Thx for your help,
> 
> best regards,
> William Windels
> 
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Re: macbook air vs ipad 2

[Jim Barbour]

Oh come on!  Are you really saying that if only Freedom Scientific
hadn't come up with the signed Braille driver that we'd have
universal, inexpensive Braille displays?

I would say that Braille displays are expensive to produce and
maintain, which is one big reason we don't have more affordable
braille displays.

I would also say there's been little demand for universal Braille
displays, assuming universal means that it works with the HID
protocal.

JIm

On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 11:40:54AM -0800, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> Yeppers. That's why. 
> 
> On 07/03/2011, at 11:05, "Cheree Heppe"  wrote:
> 
> > Cheree Heppe here:
> > 
> > Is that why we don't have universal, affordable, Braille displays? Because 
> > intrenched providers are holding new development and innivation back to 
> > benefit current high priced offerings?
> > 
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Cheree Heppe
> > 
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "Scott Granados" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:32
> > Subject: Re: macbook air vs ipad 2
> > 
> > 
> > Apple isn't going to car if some nat of a company like fS brings legal 
> > action.
> > 
> > Apple can simply use stalling tactics and let them run out of money 
> > spinning their wheels.
> > 
> > 
> > On Mar 6, 2011, at 7:02 AM, Jane wrote:
> > 
> >> We're assuming they will do Braille. That'd be neat, *if* they can pull it 
> >> off and *if* Braille display makers don't push them out of the market by 
> >> constantly suing.
> >> 
> >> Jane
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Mar 5, 2011, at 11:07 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Yeah don't forget it's thinner. When haptics comes out think of the 
> >>> screen room you wil have for braille right there.
> >>> On Mar 5, 2011, at 7:22 PM, Cheree wrote:
> >>> 
>  Cheree Heppe here:
>  I like the IPad, actually.
>  
>  I went for the I-devicees first because they open a very intuitive, easy 
>  entre into the Apple environment.  No commands and keystroke chording 
>  and what seemed to me a quick start interface.
>  
>  In a bit, I'm ggoing to get an Air or Mac, but would have done so with 
>  much more trepidation if not having tried the I-devices first.
>  
>  As to the base measurements of a PacMate being smaller than an IPad, 
>  true, but that's only a single dimension.
>  
>  Regards,
>  Cheree Heppe
>  
>  
>  Sent from my iPhone
>  
>  On 05/03/2011, at 19:07, "David Tanner"  
>  wrote:
>  
> > Well, let's see, the iPad is clunkier to carry around than an iPhone or 
> > iTouch.  The iPad is almost as expensive as buying the basic MacBook 
> > Pro 13 with two gigabytes of memory, and the processor in the new iPad 
> > is only a 1.0 gigahert duel core processor.  The MacBook Pro 13 has a 
> > lot faster processor than that and so does the Ayer if you want to pay 
> > the higher price for solid state memory instead of a hard drive.
> > 
> > The iPad makes me think of all the blind folks that have complained 
> > about the size of the PacMate QT.  In fact, I don't think that the 
> > PacMate QT would be as large in flat area as the iPad.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > - Original Message - From: "Ricardo Walker" 
> > 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 6:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: macbook air vs ipad 2
> > 
> > 
> > Me personally,
> > 
> > If I need to get work done, I would go with a Macbook air.  Its a full 
> > fledged computer, and besides the added size, you will find yourself 
> > bumping up against less barriers when trying to get things done.  
> > Especially if you have an iPhone or iPod touch already.  What are you 
> > really missing in not getting an iPad?
> > 
> > JMO
> > 
> > Ricardo Walker
> > rwalker...@gmail.com
> > Twitter, Skype, and AIM: rwalker296
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Mar 4, 2011, at 8:48 AM, Denise Avant wrote:
> > 
> >> hello all,
> >> i am contemplating getting another apple device. i need something that 
> >> is light to take when i travel. i was thinking of the ipad 2 because 
> >> you can get pages to write with. the only problem here is that there 
> >> is no port for external media like a usb drive, is there?
> >> my other alternative is that i can get the macbook air. but its a 
> >> little bigger. i really don't need a screen. but i would have a port 
> >> for external media. of course i would miss all of those apps you can 
> >> have on the ipad.
> >> that can be negated by the fact that i have an iphone.
> >> well, i would be interested in hearing from those with the air. i know 
> >> the ipad 2 is not out yet, but i'm sure there are some first 
> >> generation ipad users here.
> >> thanks.
> >> 
> >> -- 
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> >> Groups "MacVisionari

Re: Macbook Pro VS. Macbook Air.

[Jim Barbour]

the primary reason to go with the air is weight and size.  It's a road
warrier's machine.

Since you say you don't care about those things, get the pro for sure!

Jim

On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 05:37:29PM -0700, carolyn Haas wrote:
> Hi Wes:
> You sight some pretty strong reasons to go with the macbook pro rather than 
> the air in terms of memory, solid state drive etc.  I would add that with the 
> pro you would  be getting cd/dvd rive and capabilities, and the sd card 
> reader, that I don't think are part of the Macbook Air.
> either way, you're in for a great system.:)
> 
> Happy deciding.
> 
> Carolyn
> 
> On Mar 7, 2011, at 5:29 PM, Wes Smith wrote:
> 
> > So I'm trying to decide between a Macbook Pro, or a Macbook AIr.  I would 
> > get a educational discount (I'm in college.)  I looked at the specs, and 
> > they both look good.  Though, the MAcbook Air is only flash, and it's 
> > biggest is 128 gig I think.  While the Macbook pro has a 500 gig HD (I 
> > wouldn't need that, just 320 gigs.)  And, the Macbook Pro  solid state, and 
> > it has a superdrive, while the Macbook AIr doesn't.   I don't really care 
> > about the weight and how thin the Macbook Air is.  SO, I guess my question 
> > would be, what do you  guys recommend?  It's a toss up for me.  LOL.
> > 
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Re: iOS 4.3 VoiceOver change log

[Jim Barbour]

Different strokes I guess, I'm very happy they fixed it.  I've often
wanted to change the volume in a game, podcast or something without
speech coming back on.

Yay 4.3!!

Jim

On Wed, Mar 09, 2011 at 10:47:17AM -0800, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> Yeah I wish they had not fixed the volume  thing where you can hit it and 
> quickly unmute your phone. I taught that  to a lot of iphone users over the 
> past 9 months..
> 
> take care all.
> Sarah Alawami
> 
> If you  need an edit  done on a small project go to 
> http://music.marrie.org/master for more info. If you need to contact me my 
> info is below.
> 
> MSN and AIM: marri...@gmail.com
> 
> website: http://music.marrie.org
> Podcast: http://marrie.podbean.com
> youtube: http://youtube.com/marrie125
> 
> On Mar 9, 2011, at 10:27 AM, Kevin Chao wrote:
> 
> > iOS 4.3: VoiceOver Feature, Changes, Fixes and Bugs
> > One more thing, our feature request.
> > 
> > 
> > Feature
> > * with VoiceOver sounds, on power off screen, touch slide to power
> > off, and will hear drilling sound.
> > 
> > 
> > Changes
> > * In Safari, "tabs" button is relabeled as "pages".
> > * four-finger swipe up or down gesture (to move to first or previous
> > element) is now four-finger tap top-half or bottom-half of touch
> > screen.
> > 
> > 
> > Fixed:
> > * in slider, three-finger swipe up/down will move in units of 8.
> > * While  performing a read-all, slide  ring/silent switch will not
> > interrupt read all.
> > * If speech is turned off, adjusting volume doesn't turn speech back
> > on anymore.
> > * when composing/replying to messages in messages, Skype, TweetList,
> > IMPlus, and other apps; virtual keyboard is always present and
> > bluetooth keyboard text entry always works.
> > * replying to an email, adding recipient(s), VoiceOver focus can be
> > placed in message body and text can be entered.
> > * Forwarding an email, adding recipient(s), VoiceOver focus can be
> > placed in message body and text can be entered.
> > * On an active call, receive second call, buttons  are labeled properly
> > * With hints off, opening/closing folder gives only tone, no longer
> > provide VO message about opening/closing folder.
> > 
> > 
> > Bugs
> > * Safari: when tab browsing, switching to different tabs, VoiceOver
> > will display old tab, not new, must toggle VoiceOver. (old)
> > * Safari: loading pages, using bluetooth keyboard to go to next
> > element, will report not found; must return to top and move to next
> > element. (old)
> > * Safari: multiple tabs, check tab count,  clear out a few tabs, tab
> > count will still report tab count as if it was never cleared out; must
> > clear out Safari from app switcher for it to be updated properly.
> > (new)
> > * Mail  and safari: when HTML content has loaded, says "web site
> > loaded"; should not be this verbose with hints off and sounds on.
> > Loaded sound is more than sufficient. (old)
> > * Any app/screen, when is loaded/refresh, VO focus is always in top
> > left; should be  position in content area (preferably in last spot,
> > where one had VO focus). (old)
> > * Push alert auto-reads time, not message content. (old))
> > * US TTS set to 100% will partially cut off X and H, partial words,
> > but still understandable and can tell what letters they are. (partial)
> > * UK or Australian VoiceOver at 70-100% has speech cut off with a
> > variety of characters,unusable. (old)
> > bluetooth keyboard/virtual,
> > A. keyboard getting stuck
> > B. reviewing by lines/words/characters. truncates lines, reads entire
> > paragraph then individual lines, and switching  to word doesn't pick
> > up but instead starts at top of paragraph. Same occurs for when
> > navigating by lines and switching to words, focus is forced to top.
> > C. at times, can't toggle quick nab. may have to restart VoiceOver or iPhone
> > D. no iOS word wrapping, but it exist for iBooks.
> > 
> > 
> > Feature Request
> > * iOS word-wrapping
> > * iOS shortcut  menu: dictionary, Google, etc.
> > * App switcher: kill all apps
> > * VoiceOver find
> > * Text selection and copy in  read-only areas
> > * VoiceOver being smart about where focus is placed
> > * Option to auto-read push or not at all (not read time)
> > * Option to route VoiceOver to a different audio output
> > * Independent VoiceOver volume control without  bluetooth keyboard.
> > * Pitch control
> > * punctuation control
> > 
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Re: mail in terminal

[Jim Barbour]

There was no conclusion.

One reason is that the focus of this discussion isn't really clear.

Are you wanting to send and read email from inside a terminal, or do
you want to set up your own mail server?

Running your own email server is doable, but has lots of gotchas and
a willingness to gain an understanding of SMTP.  I also wouldn't use
sendmail to run a personal mail server, it's unnecessarily
complicated.  I'd recommend exim, though there are others.

Feel free to reply with questions...

Jim

On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 05:23:20PM +, .dan. wrote:
> 
> There was a brief thread about using mail in terminal with sendmail for use
> as a local mail server.
> 
> What if anything was the conclusion reached?
> 
> I'm naive in the ways of email except as a user of existing services. What
> needs to be done step by step if you please?
> 
> 
>XB
> IC|XC
> 
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