Association for the Blind of Western Australia on Twitter

[Greg Kearney]

http://twitter.com/AssocBlindWA

This twitter account will update each time we finish producing a new digital 
talking book in DAISY format.

Gregory Kearney
Manager - Accessible Media
Association for the Blind of Western Australia
61 Kitchener Avenue, PO Box 101
Victoria Park 6979, WA Australia

Telephone: +61 (08) 9311 8202
Telephone: +1 (307) 224-4022 (North America)
Fax: +61 (08) 9361 8696
Toll free: 1800 658 388 (Australia only)
Email: gkear...@gmail.com

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Re: Introduction

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Ricardo!

Welcome to the list!  Good to see you over here.
Cheers,
Donna
On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:17 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> My name is Ricardo and I've been a Mac user for 18 months now.  I  
> hope to learn a lot from this list and contribute if I can.  Happy  
> holidays to all.
>
>
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Re: IWork: Announcing styles

[Chris Hofstader]

I think that in VO settings there is a "read text attributes" or some such 
thing that is off by default.  I don't know if it will help you but it's 
probably a good feature to try.
On Dec 13, 2009, at 6:01 PM, Daniel K. Gartmann wrote:

>  
> Hi,
>  
> I had to insert text into a fairly complex document in IWorks today and 
> couldn't get VO to automatically alert me of changes such as bullets, tables, 
> etc. the document came from Microsoft Word 2003.
>  
> Obviously this kind of information is important when working on a corporate 
> document so, does anybody know how to get this info read out automatically as 
> you read through the document?
>  
> I had to do the job using Microsoft Word, but there must be some way around 
> this on the Mac.
>  
> Thanks in advance.
>  
> Daniel
>  
> 
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Did I lose my network?

[Steve Matzura]

My iMac booted up fine last week--got on the network, did what I
wanted, then shut it off.  THree days later, I boot it up and poof, no
network.  The wire that goes from my iMac back to the router in the
next room is well over 50 feet long, probably closer to 70.  Well
within the hundred-meter limit of your standard Cat 5 or 6 cable run.
However, since the iMac has Wi-Fi capability, is it possible it's been
switched over to that and there's some way I can press a key to
disable Wi-Fi?  IN the meantime, I'll turn myself into a snake and
start crawling around, looking for breaks in this cable run.

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Thunderbird 3 for OSX not accessible

[Chris Blouch]

I noticed that the final 3.0 release of Thunderbird 3 for MacOSX came 
out last week. Last I read the betas were not accessible with Voiceover 
(just MSAA/Windows). Has anyone tried the real release and found any 
difference?

CB

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Re: System access to go on a mac

[Nicolai Svendsen]

Hi,

You're running this through a virtual machine, I'll assume, you'd have to. So 
the answer is that it will. The System Access To Go is an executable file. You 
don't have to toggle off VO for any Windows application, as they won't conflict 
unless you use the passthrough key combination. Of course, VoiceOver will not 
read anything WIndows-based for obvious reasons. If you're doing this another 
way, I'm confused as hell.

Regards,
Nic
Skype: Kvalme
MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
AIM: cincinster
yahoo Messenger: cin368
Facebook Profile
My Twitter

On Dec 14, 2009, at 5:18 AM, John J Herzog wrote:

> On 12/13/2009 7:35 PM, Joe Plummer wrote:
>> What I understand it will not work on Mac OS.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sign,
>> JP ( Joe Plummer)
>> joeplum...@tds.net
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of .dan.
>> Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 2:58 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: System access to go on a mac
>> 
>> 
>> There was a thread about this alternative web based screen reader.  It is
>> intended for use on a windows machine.  Has anyone ever tried it using a mac
>> with vo?
>> 
>> I ask because I have access to a private network and part of it is reached
>> by starting an internet explorer session on the network to go to someother
>> parts of the network.  Of course vo stops speaking when ie is running.
>> 
>> A sighted friend says the screen looks exactly like the mac is running
>> windows with its menu items etc. and functions with the mouse just like it
>> is windows running ie.  .  If I could use sa to go I could in principle
>> access that part of the network also using a mac..
>> 
>> I assume one would have to toggle off vo while using it, if it works in
>> fact?
>> 
>> XB
>>  IC|XC
>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> While system access does not work on the mac, it works beautifully in VMware 
>> fusion. I use it all the time for my windows install.
>> 
> Note that VMware and voiceover work well together, so this would be a 
> good solution to accessing your network.
> 
> John
> 
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Re: Skctl, the Skype Controller, first public release

[Doug Lee]

A little update:  Anyone who downloaded skctl before about 8:00 AM
Pacific time, 11 AM Eastern time today, might want to download it
again and just update Skctl on your machine.  The Resume, or Res,
command did not work properly, but it now does.  Sorry about that, for
anyone who wants to use that one.

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 12:56:36AM -0500, Doug Lee wrote:
I have produced a new utility called Skctl, the Skype Controller.
This will probably not be of interest to most of you, but it may
interest some.

Skctl is a command-line Skype interface of sorts, with some added
features, most notably the ability to set up auto-answers for specific
users, rather than turning autoAnswer on for everyone at once in your
contact list.  Other things you can do with Skctl include making
and managing calls, listing active file transfers with KBPS and
percent complete, playing voicemails, toggling microphone mute with a
single-letter command, and getting a user's last-online time, which the
Skype graphical interfaces currently don't provide accessibly.

Installation of the program on Windows requires first installing
ActivePython, the most widely used Windows Python distribution as far
as I can tell.  The program should work without extra work on MacOS.

Installation instructions, system requirements, and a complete
reference on Skctl commands can be found at the following link:

http://www.dlee.org/skype/skctl/man.php

The main link for Skctl, which also leads to the documentation page
just mentioned, is

http://www.dlee.org/skype/skctl/

>From there, you can reach the documentation and get the current
release, version 1.2.2.

Since this is both a new and a powerful interface, I strongly
recommend that users first examine the documentation just mentioned
before playing with Skctl commands.  There is built-in help,
accessible by typing "help" or "?" and pressing Enter at Skctl's
"Skype>" prompt; but the online documentation is much more complete.

Happy playing.


-- 
Doug Lee d...@dlee.orghttp://www.dlee.org
SSB BART Group   doug@ssbbartgroup.com   http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
"When your best-laid plans have turned to dust, vacuum!"
- Whoopi Goldberg 

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"Determine that the thing can and shall be done, and then...find
the way." - Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Thunderbird 3 for OSX not accessible

[carlene knight]

I never tried Thunderbird 2, but 3.0 is not accessible.  We tried it out.  
Voiceover found some of the buttons but that's about it.
On Dec 14, 2009, at 7:48 AM, Chris Blouch wrote:

> I noticed that the final 3.0 release of Thunderbird 3 for MacOSX came 
> out last week. Last I read the betas were not accessible with Voiceover 
> (just MSAA/Windows). Has anyone tried the real release and found any 
> difference?
> 
> CB
> 
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Networked Fixed

[Steve Matzura]

For some reason, my wife did not see the box in the upper right corner
of the screen which said it was looking for an Airport connection.
Turned that off, and bingo, back to the net we went!

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Re: Converting Mov to Mp4

[Tiffany D]

I have no idea what you're talking about but I'll try the converter.
I just want youtube to stop cutting off my videos.

On 09/12/2009, Jake  wrote:
> Hi
> MP4 is a container format, not a vieo format. Mov and MP4 are actually
> identical, they're the same file format though they often contain
> different codecs. If your videos are being cut off when you create
> them with quicktime and not when you do so on the netbook, check your
> export settings on each to see what codec you are actually using when
> you're creating them and the settings involved. Whether the file is
> mov or mp4 is of no consequence since they're the same file type just
> with a different extension. For video conversion I suggest HandBrake:
> http://www.handbrake.fr/
> It can open almost any type of video and convert it to MP4 either with
> the MP4 codec or the H.264 codec.
> FYI: .mov, .mp4, and .3gp are all mp4 containers.
>
> Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
>> Pretty much every time I make a video with the Mac and upload it to
>> youtube it cuts it off.  It used to be less frequent, but now, it
>> happens almost all the time.  But it doesn't happen with the videos I
>> created on my netbook.  So until I get said machine back, I'm looking
>> for either an online or a Mac-compatible converter to turn my mov
>> files into mp4 or something that's more compatible with youtube.  If
>> you know of nothing like this, then what other software can I use
>> besides Photo Booth?  Help would be sincerely appreciate.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Eleni
>
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VO says "clickable" after reading every line in an article on the web

[James & Nash]

Hi list, 

Is there some reason why Voice Over says "clickable" after reading every line 
in an article on the internet? Is there some way of turning it off or is it 
informing me of some information that I am unaware of?

Thanks 

TC

James 

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Re: VO says "clickable" after reading every line in an article on the web

[carlene knight]

Hi James;

Usually when that happens it is informing you that there is a link or button 
you can click on for more information about the particular subject of that line 
you just read.  For instance if you were reading newspaper article about an 
ongoing news story, you might see this when referencing a previous article.  
Clicking on it would take you to that article.  What you were reading must have 
a lot of references..  HOpe that helps.
On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:21 AM, James & Nash wrote:

> Hi list, 
> 
> Is there some reason why Voice Over says "clickable" after reading every line 
> in an article on the internet? Is there some way of turning it off or is it 
> informing me of some information that I am unaware of?
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> TC
> 
> James 
> 
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Re: Thunderbird 3 for OSX not accessible

[Joel Zimba]

I think Thunderbird il continue to be  basically inaccessible until the Firefox 
accessibility issues are fixed.  I would think they would trickle down to 
Thunderbird in time as happened on the windows side.  

I used to use Thunderbird and it was a great mail program.  

Joel

On Dec 14, 2009, at 10:48 AM, Chris Blouch wrote:

> I noticed that the final 3.0 release of Thunderbird 3 for MacOSX came 
> out last week. Last I read the betas were not accessible with Voiceover 
> (just MSAA/Windows). Has anyone tried the real release and found any 
> difference?
> 
> CB
> 
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Replying to the sender

[Robert Carter]

Hi All,

I continue to have difficulty figuring out how to reply to the sender of an 
email to a list. It was easy to do in leopard but in the current snow leopard, 
I don't seem to be having any luck locating the address of the person who 
originated the message. Has anybody figured out how to do this?

Robert Carter

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Re: VO says "clickable" after reading every line in an article on the web

[James & Nash]

Hi carlene

Thanks so much for your reply. This makes sense, but i don't think that every 
line on a BBC news article would have a link attached to it would it? I will go 
back and check.

Thanks again

TC
James 
On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:31, carlene knight wrote:

> Hi James;
> 
> Usually when that happens it is informing you that there is a link or button 
> you can click on for more information about the particular subject of that 
> line you just read.  For instance if you were reading newspaper article about 
> an ongoing news story, you might see this when referencing a previous 
> article.  Clicking on it would take you to that article.  What you were 
> reading must have a lot of references..  HOpe that helps.
> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:21 AM, James & Nash wrote:
> 
>> Hi list, 
>> 
>> Is there some reason why Voice Over says "clickable" after reading every 
>> line in an article on the internet? Is there some way of turning it off or 
>> is it informing me of some information that I am unaware of?
>> 
>> Thanks 
>> 
>> TC
>> 
>> James 
>> 
>> --
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>> 
> 
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Re: Thunderbird 3 for OSX not accessible

[James & Nash]

Hi Joel,

You wrote:
> I think Thunderbird il continue to be  basically inaccessible until the 
> Firefox accessibility issues are fixed.  I would think they would trickle 
> down to Thunderbird in time as happened on the windows side.  

I think you may be right. Due to Mozilla's applications being cross platform, 
they cannot natively gain access to the accessibility that Apple has written 
into OSX for VO. I know that there is a specific developer working on this 
issue, but he needs more help. He needs to create all the accessibility bits 
and pieces by hand in order for Voice Over to be able to access FireFox and 
supposedly Thunderbird correctly. This is not the case with Orca on Linux, but 
I'm not sure why.

HTH
TC
James 
On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:35, Joel Zimba wrote:

> I think Thunderbird il continue to be  basically inaccessible until the 
> Firefox accessibility issues are fixed.  I would think they would trickle 
> down to Thunderbird in time as happened on the windows side.  
> 
> I used to use Thunderbird and it was a great mail program.  
> 
> Joel
> 
> On Dec 14, 2009, at 10:48 AM, Chris Blouch wrote:
> 
>> I noticed that the final 3.0 release of Thunderbird 3 for MacOSX came 
>> out last week. Last I read the betas were not accessible with Voiceover 
>> (just MSAA/Windows). Has anyone tried the real release and found any 
>> difference?
>> 
>> CB
>> 
>> --
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>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: Replying to the sender

[carlene knight]

Hi Robert:

Press enter on the message you wish to reply too.  then shift tab to message 
headers.  Press shift command to highlight the address.  Then VO/shift m  to 
the context menu.  Choose reply to sender.  A new message addressed to the 
sender will open automatically  Hope that helps.
On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Robert Carter wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> I continue to have difficulty figuring out how to reply to the sender of an 
> email to a list. It was easy to do in leopard but in the current snow 
> leopard, I don't seem to be having any luck locating the address of the 
> person who originated the message. Has anybody figured out how to do this?
> 
> Robert Carter
> 
> --
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> 

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Re: VO says "clickable" after reading every line in an article on the web

[carlene knight]

What's the URL?  Now you've got me curious.
On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:45 AM, James & Nash wrote:

> Hi carlene
> 
> Thanks so much for your reply. This makes sense, but i don't think that every 
> line on a BBC news article would have a link attached to it would it? I will 
> go back and check.
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> TC
> James 
> On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:31, carlene knight wrote:
> 
>> Hi James;
>> 
>> Usually when that happens it is informing you that there is a link or button 
>> you can click on for more information about the particular subject of that 
>> line you just read.  For instance if you were reading newspaper article 
>> about an ongoing news story, you might see this when referencing a previous 
>> article.  Clicking on it would take you to that article.  What you were 
>> reading must have a lot of references..  HOpe that helps.
>> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:21 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi list, 
>>> 
>>> Is there some reason why Voice Over says "clickable" after reading every 
>>> line in an article on the internet? Is there some way of turning it off or 
>>> is it informing me of some information that I am unaware of?
>>> 
>>> Thanks 
>>> 
>>> TC
>>> 
>>> James 
>>> 
>>> --
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Re: Replying to the sender

[James & Nash]

Hi Robert,
You wrote:
> I continue to have difficulty figuring out how to reply to the sender of an 
> email to a list. It was easy to do in leopard but in the current snow 
> leopard, I don't seem to be having any luck locating the address of the 
> person who originated the message. Has anybody figured out how to do this?

I have found that you can accomplish this by doing the following, although 
there may be a better, easier way:

1. Reply to the message with Cmd R.
2. Navigate to the "Message header" and interact with it.
3. Highlight the name of the sender and press Cmd Shift M.
4. In this menu, you'll find an option called "reply to sender"

HTH
TC
James
On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:40, Robert Carter wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> I continue to have difficulty figuring out how to reply to the sender of an 
> email to a list. It was easy to do in leopard but in the current snow 
> leopard, I don't seem to be having any luck locating the address of the 
> person who originated the message. Has anybody figured out how to do this?
> 
> Robert Carter
> 
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Re: Thunderbird 3 for OSX not accessible

[Chris Blouch]

While the core is cross-platform, their accessibility hooks are going to 
be proprietary such as MSAA on Windows. This same proprietary dev work 
will have to be done for Mac, Linux and other platforms.

CB

James & Nash wrote:
> Hi Joel,
>
> You wrote:
>   
>> I think Thunderbird il continue to be  basically inaccessible until the 
>> Firefox accessibility issues are fixed.  I would think they would trickle 
>> down to Thunderbird in time as happened on the windows side.  
>> 
>
> I think you may be right. Due to Mozilla's applications being cross platform, 
> they cannot natively gain access to the accessibility that Apple has written 
> into OSX for VO. I know that there is a specific developer working on this 
> issue, but he needs more help. He needs to create all the accessibility bits 
> and pieces by hand in order for Voice Over to be able to access FireFox and 
> supposedly Thunderbird correctly. This is not the case with Orca on Linux, 
> but I'm not sure why.
>
> HTH
> TC
> James 
> On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:35, Joel Zimba wrote:
>
>   
>> I think Thunderbird il continue to be  basically inaccessible until the 
>> Firefox accessibility issues are fixed.  I would think they would trickle 
>> down to Thunderbird in time as happened on the windows side.  
>>
>> I used to use Thunderbird and it was a great mail program.  
>>
>> Joel
>>
>> On Dec 14, 2009, at 10:48 AM, Chris Blouch wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> I noticed that the final 3.0 release of Thunderbird 3 for MacOSX came 
>>> out last week. Last I read the betas were not accessible with Voiceover 
>>> (just MSAA/Windows). Has anyone tried the real release and found any 
>>> difference?
>>>
>>> CB
>>>
>>> --
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Re: VO says "clickable" after reading every line in an article on the web

[James & Nash]

Hi carlene,

You can pick any news story on the BBC site, but here is the article I was 
reading. I would be curious to see if you get the same results as I did. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8411318.stm

Thanks for your help
TC
James 
On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:50, carlene knight wrote:

> What's the URL?  Now you've got me curious.
> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:45 AM, James & Nash wrote:
> 
>> Hi carlene
>> 
>> Thanks so much for your reply. This makes sense, but i don't think that 
>> every line on a BBC news article would have a link attached to it would it? 
>> I will go back and check.
>> 
>> Thanks again
>> 
>> TC
>> James 
>> On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:31, carlene knight wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi James;
>>> 
>>> Usually when that happens it is informing you that there is a link or 
>>> button you can click on for more information about the particular subject 
>>> of that line you just read.  For instance if you were reading newspaper 
>>> article about an ongoing news story, you might see this when referencing a 
>>> previous article.  Clicking on it would take you to that article.  What you 
>>> were reading must have a lot of references..  HOpe that helps.
>>> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:21 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>>> 
 Hi list, 
 
 Is there some reason why Voice Over says "clickable" after reading every 
 line in an article on the internet? Is there some way of turning it off or 
 is it informing me of some information that I am unaware of?
 
 Thanks 
 
 TC
 
 James 
 
 --
 
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Re: Thunderbird 3 for OSX not accessible

[James & Nash]

Hi Chris

You wrote:
> While the core is cross-platform, their accessibility hooks are going to be 
> proprietary such as MSAA on Windows. This same proprietary dev work will have 
> to be done for Mac, Linux and other platforms.

It has been done for Linux and Orca - at least as far as Firefox is concerned. 

TC
James 
On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:55, Chris Blouch wrote:

> While the core is cross-platform, their accessibility hooks are going to be 
> proprietary such as MSAA on Windows. This same proprietary dev work will have 
> to be done for Mac, Linux and other platforms.
> 
> CB
> 
> James & Nash wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Joel,
>> 
>> You wrote:
>>   
>>> I think Thunderbird il continue to be  basically inaccessible until the 
>>> Firefox accessibility issues are fixed.  I would think they would trickle 
>>> down to Thunderbird in time as happened on the windows side.  
>>> 
>> 
>> I think you may be right. Due to Mozilla's applications being cross 
>> platform, they cannot natively gain access to the accessibility that Apple 
>> has written into OSX for VO. I know that there is a specific developer 
>> working on this issue, but he needs more help. He needs to create all the 
>> accessibility bits and pieces by hand in order for Voice Over to be able to 
>> access FireFox and supposedly Thunderbird correctly. This is not the case 
>> with Orca on Linux, but I'm not sure why.
>> 
>> HTH
>> TC
>> James 
>> On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:35, Joel Zimba wrote:
>> 
>>   
>>> I think Thunderbird il continue to be  basically inaccessible until the 
>>> Firefox accessibility issues are fixed.  I would think they would trickle 
>>> down to Thunderbird in time as happened on the windows side.  
>>> 
>>> I used to use Thunderbird and it was a great mail program.  
>>> 
>>> Joel
>>> 
>>> On Dec 14, 2009, at 10:48 AM, Chris Blouch wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 I noticed that the final 3.0 release of Thunderbird 3 for MacOSX came 
 out last week. Last I read the betas were not accessible with Voiceover 
 (just MSAA/Windows). Has anyone tried the real release and found any 
 difference?
 
 CB
 
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Re: VO says "clickable" after reading every line in an article on the web

[Nicolai Svendsen]

HI,

I see that a lot of the time on news pages. Danish ones in particular, really.

Regards,
Nic
Skype: Kvalme
MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
AIM: cincinster
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Facebook Profile
My Twitter

On Dec 14, 2009, at 8:50 PM, carlene knight wrote:

> What's the URL?  Now you've got me curious.
> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:45 AM, James & Nash wrote:
> 
>> Hi carlene
>> 
>> Thanks so much for your reply. This makes sense, but i don't think that 
>> every line on a BBC news article would have a link attached to it would it? 
>> I will go back and check.
>> 
>> Thanks again
>> 
>> TC
>> James 
>> On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:31, carlene knight wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi James;
>>> 
>>> Usually when that happens it is informing you that there is a link or 
>>> button you can click on for more information about the particular subject 
>>> of that line you just read.  For instance if you were reading newspaper 
>>> article about an ongoing news story, you might see this when referencing a 
>>> previous article.  Clicking on it would take you to that article.  What you 
>>> were reading must have a lot of references..  HOpe that helps.
>>> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:21 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>>> 
 Hi list, 
 
 Is there some reason why Voice Over says "clickable" after reading every 
 line in an article on the internet? Is there some way of turning it off or 
 is it informing me of some information that I am unaware of?
 
 Thanks 
 
 TC
 
 James 
 
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Re: VO says "clickable" after reading every line in an article on the web

[James & Nash]

Hi Nic,

Generally, these instances of "clickable"  do not seem to be "clickable" in 
fact lol.

TC
James 
On 14 Dec 2009, at 20:02, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:

> HI,
> 
> I see that a lot of the time on news pages. Danish ones in particular, really.
> 
> Regards,
> Nic
> Skype: Kvalme
> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
> AIM: cincinster
> yahoo Messenger: cin368
> Facebook Profile
> My Twitter
> 
> On Dec 14, 2009, at 8:50 PM, carlene knight wrote:
> 
>> What's the URL?  Now you've got me curious.
>> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:45 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi carlene
>>> 
>>> Thanks so much for your reply. This makes sense, but i don't think that 
>>> every line on a BBC news article would have a link attached to it would it? 
>>> I will go back and check.
>>> 
>>> Thanks again
>>> 
>>> TC
>>> James 
>>> On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:31, carlene knight wrote:
>>> 
 Hi James;
 
 Usually when that happens it is informing you that there is a link or 
 button you can click on for more information about the particular subject 
 of that line you just read.  For instance if you were reading newspaper 
 article about an ongoing news story, you might see this when referencing a 
 previous article.  Clicking on it would take you to that article.  What 
 you were reading must have a lot of references..  HOpe that helps.
 On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:21 AM, James & Nash wrote:
 
> Hi list, 
> 
> Is there some reason why Voice Over says "clickable" after reading every 
> line in an article on the internet? Is there some way of turning it off 
> or is it informing me of some information that I am unaware of?
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> TC
> 
> James 
> 
> --
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> 
 
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>>> 
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Re: Thunderbird 3 for OSX not accessible

[Chris Blouch]

Ahh, wasn't aware of that. According to

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mac:Accessibility#How_to_build_Firefox_with_accessibility

you can build a version with the VO accessibility turned on, at least to 
the extent they've implemented. Has anyone tried this?

https://developer.mozilla.org/En/Developer_Guide/Build_Instructions/Mac_OS_X_Prerequisites

Unfortunatly the last update from Håkan Waara is from November 2006 so I 
would hope there is a lot more in the build.

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mac:Accessibility_Tasks

CB

James & Nash wrote:
> Hi Chris
>
> You wrote:
>> While the core is cross-platform, their accessibility hooks are going 
>> to be proprietary such as MSAA on Windows. This same proprietary dev 
>> work will have to be done for Mac, Linux and other platforms.
>
> It has been done for Linux and Orca - at least as far as Firefox is 
> concerned. 
>
> TC
> James 
> On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:55, Chris Blouch wrote:
>
>> While the core is cross-platform, their accessibility hooks are going 
>> to be proprietary such as MSAA on Windows. This same proprietary dev 
>> work will have to be done for Mac, Linux and other platforms.
>>
>> CB
>>
>> James & Nash wrote:
>>> Hi Joel,
>>>
>>> You wrote:
>>>   
 I think Thunderbird il continue to be  basically inaccessible until the 
 Firefox accessibility issues are fixed.  I would think they would trickle 
 down to Thunderbird in time as happened on the windows side.  
 
>>>
>>> I think you may be right. Due to Mozilla's applications being cross 
>>> platform, they cannot natively gain access to the accessibility that Apple 
>>> has written into OSX for VO. I know that there is a specific developer 
>>> working on this issue, but he needs more help. He needs to create all the 
>>> accessibility bits and pieces by hand in order for Voice Over to be able to 
>>> access FireFox and supposedly Thunderbird correctly. This is not the case 
>>> with Orca on Linux, but I'm not sure why.
>>>
>>> HTH
>>> TC
>>> James 
>>> On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:35, Joel Zimba wrote:
>>>
>>>   
 I think Thunderbird il continue to be  basically inaccessible until the 
 Firefox accessibility issues are fixed.  I would think they would trickle 
 down to Thunderbird in time as happened on the windows side.  

 I used to use Thunderbird and it was a great mail program.  

 Joel

 On Dec 14, 2009, at 10:48 AM, Chris Blouch wrote:

 
> I noticed that the final 3.0 release of Thunderbird 3 for MacOSX came 
> out last week. Last I read the betas were not accessible with Voiceover 
> (just MSAA/Windows). Has anyone tried the real release and found any 
> difference?
>
> CB
>
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Re: Thunderbird 3 for OSX not accessible

[James & Nash]

Cool thanks for this Chris, 

I'll take a look at this.

TC
James
On 14 Dec 2009, at 20:15, Chris Blouch wrote:

> Ahh, wasn't aware of that. According to
> 
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mac:Accessibility#How_to_build_Firefox_with_accessibility
> 
> you can build a version with the VO accessibility turned on, at least to the 
> extent they've implemented. Has anyone tried this?
> 
> https://developer.mozilla.org/En/Developer_Guide/Build_Instructions/Mac_OS_X_Prerequisites
> 
> Unfortunatly the last update from Håkan Waara is from November 2006 so I 
> would hope there is a lot more in the build.
> 
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mac:Accessibility_Tasks
> 
> CB
> 
> James & Nash wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Chris
>> 
>> You wrote:
>>> While the core is cross-platform, their accessibility hooks are going to be 
>>> proprietary such as MSAA on Windows. This same proprietary dev work will 
>>> have to be done for Mac, Linux and other platforms.
>> 
>> It has been done for Linux and Orca - at least as far as Firefox is 
>> concerned. 
>> 
>> TC
>> James 
>> On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:55, Chris Blouch wrote:
>> 
>>> While the core is cross-platform, their accessibility hooks are going to be 
>>> proprietary such as MSAA on Windows. This same proprietary dev work will 
>>> have to be done for Mac, Linux and other platforms.
>>> 
>>> CB
>>> 
>>> James & Nash wrote:
 
 Hi Joel,
 
 You wrote:
   
> I think Thunderbird il continue to be  basically inaccessible until the 
> Firefox accessibility issues are fixed.  I would think they would trickle 
> down to Thunderbird in time as happened on the windows side.  
> 
 
 I think you may be right. Due to Mozilla's applications being cross 
 platform, they cannot natively gain access to the accessibility that Apple 
 has written into OSX for VO. I know that there is a specific developer 
 working on this issue, but he needs more help. He needs to create all the 
 accessibility bits and pieces by hand in order for Voice Over to be able 
 to access FireFox and supposedly Thunderbird correctly. This is not the 
 case with Orca on Linux, but I'm not sure why.
 
 HTH
 TC
 James 
 On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:35, Joel Zimba wrote:
 
   
> I think Thunderbird il continue to be  basically inaccessible until the 
> Firefox accessibility issues are fixed.  I would think they would trickle 
> down to Thunderbird in time as happened on the windows side.  
> 
> I used to use Thunderbird and it was a great mail program.  
> 
> Joel
> 
> On Dec 14, 2009, at 10:48 AM, Chris Blouch wrote:
> 
> 
>> I noticed that the final 3.0 release of Thunderbird 3 for MacOSX came 
>> out last week. Last I read the betas were not accessible with Voiceover 
>> (just MSAA/Windows). Has anyone tried the real release and found any 
>> difference?
>> 
>> CB
>> 
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Sun VirtualBox 3.1

[Chris Blouch]

Apparently a new version was released November 30 (I'm a bit behind) but 
the GUI seems no more accessible than it was before.

CB

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Re: Sun VirtualBox 3.1

[Mike Pedersen]

> Apparently a new version was released November 30 (I'm a bit behind) but 
> the GUI seems no more accessible than it was before.
> 
One thing I've noticed with this application is that you can interact with the 
containers that call themselves "unknown".  If you do this, the individual 
controls in the unknown containers become accessible.  

Mike

> CB
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Re: VO says "clickable" after reading every line in an article on the web

[carlene knight]

Hi James;

I didn't encounter them in the article itself, but the page is full of them.  
Did you use VO/a to read the article once you got to it?  That's what I did.  I 
wonder if somehow your display is set differently so that you are seeing all of 
those clickable objects that might be at the end of each line?  I notice there 
are several ways you can view the page.  I didn't choose low graphics, 
accessibility, or anything else.  I'll have to think on it though I am no 
expert and am a new Mac user myself.


On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:56 AM, James & Nash wrote:

> Hi carlene,
> 
> You can pick any news story on the BBC site, but here is the article I was 
> reading. I would be curious to see if you get the same results as I did. 
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8411318.stm
> 
> Thanks for your help
> TC
> James 
> On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:50, carlene knight wrote:
> 
>> What's the URL?  Now you've got me curious.
>> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:45 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi carlene
>>> 
>>> Thanks so much for your reply. This makes sense, but i don't think that 
>>> every line on a BBC news article would have a link attached to it would it? 
>>> I will go back and check.
>>> 
>>> Thanks again
>>> 
>>> TC
>>> James 
>>> On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:31, carlene knight wrote:
>>> 
 Hi James;
 
 Usually when that happens it is informing you that there is a link or 
 button you can click on for more information about the particular subject 
 of that line you just read.  For instance if you were reading newspaper 
 article about an ongoing news story, you might see this when referencing a 
 previous article.  Clicking on it would take you to that article.  What 
 you were reading must have a lot of references..  HOpe that helps.
 On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:21 AM, James & Nash wrote:
 
> Hi list, 
> 
> Is there some reason why Voice Over says "clickable" after reading every 
> line in an article on the internet? Is there some way of turning it off 
> or is it informing me of some information that I am unaware of?
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> TC
> 
> James 
> 
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Re: Sun VirtualBox 3.1

[Jake]

This is true to an extent, but some of the unknowns are not containers
but lists and interacting with them will yield nothing. This is
largely due to the use of QT as the GUI toolkit which has no
accessibility hooks for the OS X platform despite the QT docs
statement otherwise. Version 3.1 is actually a significant
accessibility regression from 3.0, as some of the custom accessibility
hooks seem to have been removed making a lot less of the controls
useable by VO users. If you're willing to use the command-line you can
access all of Virtualbox's features that way, but if you want an
accessible GUI-based virtual machine solution I'd say VMware Fusion is
your best bet right now.


On Dec 14, 1:53 pm, Mike Pedersen  wrote:
> > Apparently a new version was released November 30 (I'm a bit behind) but
> > the GUI seems no more accessible than it was before.
>
> One thing I've noticed with this application is that you can interact with 
> the containers that call themselves "unknown".  If you do this, the 
> individual controls in the unknown containers become accessible.  
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> > CB
>
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Re: Sun VirtualBox 3.1

[carlene knight]

It's not.


On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:41 PM, Chris Blouch wrote:

> Apparently a new version was released November 30 (I'm a bit behind) but 
> the GUI seems no more accessible than it was before.
> 
> CB
> 
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Re: questions about NVDA

[Chris Blouch]

If I recall correctly, Windows sort of stumbled into accessibility as 
far as keyboard controls because early Windows machines didn't have a 
mouse. So they had to work pretty hard at making sure every menu and 
widget was usable from the keyboard, at least until the user got tired 
of it and went out to but one of those fancy rodents. Apple shipped the 
whole package of OS, computer and mouse. So they never had to deal with 
full keyboard control as a barrier to entry for any substantial part of 
their user population. In some ways they have the advantage of years of 
hindsight and a clean slate. If you were to do it all over again from 
scratch, how would you make a GUI accessible? Microsoft may have 
"invented accessibility standards" with their keyboard controls and 
later with MSAA, but I think Apple did a lot of things in a novel and 
better way. The whole idea of drilling down through a UI or content by 
interacting is pretty intuitive if you're not trained to think through 
everything linearly. Some of the limits of linear navigation can be 
reduced with jumping around to landmarks or search, but linear just 
doesn't scale well as things become more complex. Get me to the right 
building, then the right floor, then hall, then room, then chair. It's a 
hierarchy of information and if structured well I can ignore lots of 
distractions because they fall outside my context of interest. Apple's 
navigation works in a similar manner and once up to speed (both myself 
and the implementation), will be easier to use with lower cognitive load.

CB

erik burggraaf wrote:
> I can't whole hartedly agree with you on this one.  Given the level of 
> functionality built in to voice over, it would be rediculous to expect 
> developers to try to compete.
>
> On top of that, there are other factors in accessibility besides a screen 
> reader.  There is your own level of proficiency for one thing.  Then there 
> are the limitations of your opperating system and the design of your software 
> application for others.  Taking your web page links as an example, they may 
> not read in safari.  But if you use the latest version of web kit then it 
> might deal with the design of the page differently and allow the links to 
> show.  Similarly, if you view the page in firefox or opera it may render the 
> page totally differently and provide a higher level of access using the same 
> voiceover screen reader.  Or the links may be designed completely without 
> labels and there may be nothing there for a screen reader to get a handle on, 
> in which case it would make no difference what browser and screen reader you 
> used.
>
> In the case of microsoft, they invented accessibility standards.  Then they 
> berried the standards in a locked filing cabinet in a locked washroom down  
> in the basement with a keep out sign on the door.  Few people, if any, paid 
> attention to the accessibility standards, even microsoft itself.  It took 
> many years to make web browsing functional, even though there were standards 
> almost from the beginning.  Windows screen reader manufacturers used to have 
> to re-invent the wheel for every new os or browser upgrade.  Remember when 
> window-eyes 4.5 came out and it was accessible with adobe pdf?  It could have 
> been that way from the beginning, but adobe didn't use any of the 
> accessibility standards and then had to rewrite huge chunks of their code.
>
> Apple on the other hand, is setting the accessibility standards for it's OS,  
> Providing the tools people need to take advantage of accessibility, and 
> herding the sheep onto the accessible towline.  They aren't just writing a 
> screen reading package.  They are writing an accessible OS and educating come 
> forcing developers into creating accessible software.  It's taking time,  but 
> you can see the results.  Every safari update, every OS update, every update 
> for your third party software, all bring some new piece of the puzzle and 
> offer up something more we can use.  It's got to be tough for a third party 
> screen reader developer to compete, and if you wait a month or two or three, 
> a browser update, website update, or OS update will suddendly render your 
> content useable where it wasn't before.  Not only that, but the cost to you 
> will be minimal or none.  Proof that not all monopolies are tiranical, or 
> that sometimes one person stepping up and taking charge is better than a 
> motly collection of competing factions clawing their way over every one else.
>
> Best,
> erik burggraaf
> A+ certified technician and user support consultant.
> Phone: 888-255-5194
> Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com
>
> On 2009-12-09, at 8:04 PM, carlene knight wrote:
>
>   
>> Hi:
>>
>> Though I like Voiceover and the OSX format, I do wish there was a secondary 
>> program like NVDa as it can read some web pages that neither JAWS nor 
>> Voiceover can.  One in particular is a lot of the link labels  at 
>> www.eddietrunk.com.
>>
>> On 

Re: VO says "clickable" after reading every line in an article on the web

[Nicolai Svendsen]

Hi,

Yeah, that's the interesting part.

Regards,
Nic
Skype: Kvalme
MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
AIM: cincinster
yahoo Messenger: cin368
Facebook Profile
My Twitter

On Dec 14, 2009, at 9:05 PM, James & Nash wrote:

> Hi Nic,
> 
> Generally, these instances of "clickable"  do not seem to be "clickable" in 
> fact lol.
> 
> TC
> James 
> On 14 Dec 2009, at 20:02, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:
> 
>> HI,
>> 
>> I see that a lot of the time on news pages. Danish ones in particular, 
>> really.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Nic
>> Skype: Kvalme
>> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
>> AIM: cincinster
>> yahoo Messenger: cin368
>> Facebook Profile
>> My Twitter
>> 
>> On Dec 14, 2009, at 8:50 PM, carlene knight wrote:
>> 
>>> What's the URL?  Now you've got me curious.
>>> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:45 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>>> 
 Hi carlene
 
 Thanks so much for your reply. This makes sense, but i don't think that 
 every line on a BBC news article would have a link attached to it would 
 it? I will go back and check.
 
 Thanks again
 
 TC
 James 
 On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:31, carlene knight wrote:
 
> Hi James;
> 
> Usually when that happens it is informing you that there is a link or 
> button you can click on for more information about the particular subject 
> of that line you just read.  For instance if you were reading newspaper 
> article about an ongoing news story, you might see this when referencing 
> a previous article.  Clicking on it would take you to that article.  What 
> you were reading must have a lot of references..  HOpe that helps.
> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:21 AM, James & Nash wrote:
> 
>> Hi list, 
>> 
>> Is there some reason why Voice Over says "clickable" after reading every 
>> line in an article on the internet? Is there some way of turning it off 
>> or is it informing me of some information that I am unaware of?
>> 
>> Thanks 
>> 
>> TC
>> 
>> James 
>> 
>> --
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Re: VO says "clickable" after reading every line in an article on the web

[carlene knight]

What I do when I hear clickable and I might be interested is to click the mouse 
button with numbed 5 if  you have the numbed commander on or Vo/shift/space if 
not.  That seems to work the best.


On Dec 14, 2009, at 1:36 PM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Yeah, that's the interesting part.
> 
> Regards,
> Nic
> Skype: Kvalme
> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
> AIM: cincinster
> yahoo Messenger: cin368
> Facebook Profile
> My Twitter
> 
> On Dec 14, 2009, at 9:05 PM, James & Nash wrote:
> 
>> Hi Nic,
>> 
>> Generally, these instances of "clickable"  do not seem to be "clickable" in 
>> fact lol.
>> 
>> TC
>> James 
>> On 14 Dec 2009, at 20:02, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:
>> 
>>> HI,
>>> 
>>> I see that a lot of the time on news pages. Danish ones in particular, 
>>> really.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Nic
>>> Skype: Kvalme
>>> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
>>> AIM: cincinster
>>> yahoo Messenger: cin368
>>> Facebook Profile
>>> My Twitter
>>> 
>>> On Dec 14, 2009, at 8:50 PM, carlene knight wrote:
>>> 
 What's the URL?  Now you've got me curious.
 On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:45 AM, James & Nash wrote:
 
> Hi carlene
> 
> Thanks so much for your reply. This makes sense, but i don't think that 
> every line on a BBC news article would have a link attached to it would 
> it? I will go back and check.
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> TC
> James 
> On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:31, carlene knight wrote:
> 
>> Hi James;
>> 
>> Usually when that happens it is informing you that there is a link or 
>> button you can click on for more information about the particular 
>> subject of that line you just read.  For instance if you were reading 
>> newspaper article about an ongoing news story, you might see this when 
>> referencing a previous article.  Clicking on it would take you to that 
>> article.  What you were reading must have a lot of references..  HOpe 
>> that helps.
>> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:21 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi list, 
>>> 
>>> Is there some reason why Voice Over says "clickable" after reading 
>>> every line in an article on the internet? Is there some way of turning 
>>> it off or is it informing me of some information that I am unaware of?
>>> 
>>> Thanks 
>>> 
>>> TC
>>> 
>>> James 
>>> 
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Re: Text-to-Speech Support on Kindle coming for Vision Impaired users

[Chris Blouch]

So maybe I missed a thread someplace but is the Kindle app for iPhone 
really not accessible? I download and installed it and found the 
framework at least to be accessible but I didn't want to purchase an 
actual book just to find out the act of reading was not.

CB

Jake wrote:
> But will we be able to actually read the books after the author's
> guild basically said we have no right to and Amazon caved to them? It
> can have all the audible menus in the world, but if I can't read the
> book based on a licensing decision then it's still of no use.
> Personally, I'd rather have an accessible version of the iPhone app
> anyway. $400 simply for an Ebook reader is just too much.
> Currently, the Kindle II has tts capability for books but only if
> thepublisher allows it, and most do not thanks to the author's guild.
>
> Esther wrote:
>   
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm surprised that I haven't seen any mention on this list of Amazon's
>> announcement that they will update the Kindle 2 and Kindle DX to
>> include an audible menu that will use text-to-speech and add new large
>> fonts to better support vision-impaired users, and will implement
>> these changes in 2010. This has been covered in a few places since
>> yesterday.
>>
>> Here's the press release at Amazon:
>>
>> http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=176060&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1362556&highlight=
>>
>> A few links to articles reporting on this:
>> • Yahoo (basically the news release)
>> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Blind-and-VisionImpaired-bw-2422175966.html?x=0&.v=1
>> • Techflash (has some commentary from the NFB, student reaction, and
>> other description)
>> http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/12/kindle_to_feature_new_tools_for_blind_visually_impaired.html
>>
>> and here's some of the older (November 2009) criticism of the Kindle's
>> text-to-speech access from geek.com:
>> http://www.geek.com/articles/gadgets/kindle-dx-text-to-speech-access-criticized-2009/
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Esther
>> 
>
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Readiris pro 12 initial setup

[Mike Pedersen]

Hi all, after reading some posts suggesting that readiris was accessible I 
purchased it.   
I'm running a Macbook pro with a fully up to date snow leopard.  
The install seemed to go just fine and completed successfully.  WHen I launch 
Readiris Voiceover tells me that Readiris has no windows.  I did try toggling 
Voiceover on and off with no effect.
Has anyone experienced this and if so any thoughts on a solution would be 
appreciated.  

Mike

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Re: Text-to-Speech Support on Kindle coming for Vision Impaired users

[Chris Blouch]

While we're somewhat off topic, Wired had an interesting article out on 
Friday about how copyright owners are fighting a plan to release e-books 
for the blind. Could have impact on book readers of any flavor.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/12/blind_block/

CB

Christina wrote:
> The NFB had to push the release of their e-book reader to January  
> sometime.  I personally would prefer Amazon to make their apps  
> accessible.  Why can't they just make it so that it works with the TTS  
> already built in to the iphone and the mac?  Then voiceover can just  
> read the books to us and it wouldn't matter if a publisher turned off  
> the TTS or not.  Well, I do not understand the laws so maybe this is  
> illegal.  However, I've heard that the NFB e-book reader will work  
> with voiceover so we can just use voiceover to read the books.  This  
> is what I've heard so I do not know how true this is.  I believe the  
> NFB e-book reader will have their own TTS built in as well but again,  
> I'm not positive on this.
>
> Christina
> On Dec 8, 2009, at 2:25 PM, Scott Howell wrote:
>
>   
>> Esther, I can't recall who posted the info, but wasn't there also  
>> something the NFB was collaborating with to make books accessible as  
>> well? I can't recall if this was for Kendal books, NLS books or  
>> what. Does anyone know what the status of this iPhone app is as well?
>>
>> tnx
>> On Dec 8, 2009, at 3:06 PM, Esther wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm surprised that I haven't seen any mention on this list of  
>>> Amazon's
>>> announcement that they will update the Kindle 2 and Kindle DX to
>>> include an audible menu that will use text-to-speech and add new  
>>> large
>>> fonts to better support vision-impaired users, and will implement
>>> these changes in 2010. This has been covered in a few places since
>>> yesterday.
>>>
>>> Here's the press release at Amazon:
>>>
>>> http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=176060&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1362556&highlight=
>>>
>>> A few links to articles reporting on this:
>>> • Yahoo (basically the news release)
>>> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Blind-and-VisionImpaired-bw-2422175966.html?x=0&.v=1
>>> • Techflash (has some commentary from the NFB, student reaction, and
>>> other description)
>>> http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/12/kindle_to_feature_new_tools_for_blind_visually_impaired.html
>>>
>>> and here's some of the older (November 2009) criticism of the  
>>> Kindle's
>>> text-to-speech access from geek.com:
>>> http://www.geek.com/articles/gadgets/kindle-dx-text-to-speech-access-criticized-2009/
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Esther
>>>
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Re: Switching Symantha to Kerin

[Chris Blouch]

My impression was this mailing list was about voiceover and Apple stuff 
in general. Although primarily Mac there is an obvious overlap between 
iPhone/Touch users and Mac Voiceover users. So I don't think it should 
be off topic. Of course I'm not the moderator either.

That said, some folks like the Australian voice better for English and I 
tend to agree. Oddly enough, to pick it you need to go into the Region 
Format section of the International preferences area.

Hope this helps.

CB

Mark Gilland wrote:
> guies, I know this list is more for the Mac not for IPod/IPhone.  It's
> obvious that I have more questions than I thought I would.  I wanna be
> respectful to others who don't wanna hear this stuff.  I'm gonna present
> this last question but past this, I wonder if there would be a better list
> out there for these type questions that yall could suggest.  I cannot do
> blind tech due to reasons beyond my control.  Someone said blind phone, but
> anyway...
>
> so, here is my final question for the time being.
>
> can someone talk me through step by step where to go, and what to do to turn
> my speech from Symantha to the austrailian voice as some have done?  I wanna
> see if that'll make it a little easier for me to hear, being my hearing loss
> as is.
>
> Someone said you go under settings, general, international, but I can't
> figure out from there what to do.
>
> Also, is there a male voice I could use on the thing as I find it's easier
> hearing a man voice than a woman.
>
> if not, let's at least! try to get Kerin working.  and you all show me how
> to go back and forth.
>
>
>
> ? ? t?? Te?? 畫 sa?. 
>
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Re: [Fwd: It's finally here: Google Chrome for Mac. Available today in beta!]

[Chris Blouch]

I wonder if Apple contributed back to webkit all their work hooking into 
the Voiceover APIs, or did they just contribute back to webkit's 
rendering engine?

CB

Jake wrote:
> They must have the content in a customized control that isn't exposed
> to Voiceover. Given that Chrome uses Webkit under the hood just as
> Safari does, and Webkit has integration with the OS X accessibility
> frameworks already, it is rather surprising they didn't test it
> especially since they do have an accessibility team.
>
> Chris Blouch wrote:
>   
>> Looks like Google put out a new Beta of Google Chrome for Mac OSX.
>> Unfortunately it's only the 'chrome' that is accessible with VoiceOver.
>> All the content is not.
>>
>> CB
>>
>>  Original Message 
>>
>> It's finally here: Google Chrome for Mac. Available today in beta!
>>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> Thanks for signing up to hear from us regarding Google Chrome for Mac!
>> We're excited to let you know that Google Chrome is now available in
>> beta for Mac OS X.
>>
>> Here are a few fun facts from us on the Google Chrome for Mac team:
>>
>> * 73,804 lines of Mac-specific code written
>> * 29 developer builds
>> * 1,177 Mac-specific bugs fixed
>> * 12 external committers and bug editors to the Google Chrome for
>>   Mac code base, 48 external code contributors
>> * 64 Mac Minis doing continuous builds and tests
>> * 8,760 cups of soft drinks and coffee consumed
>> * 4,380 frosted mini-wheats eaten
>>
>> Thanks for waiting 
>> and we hope you'll give Google Chrome for Mac a whirl.
>>
>> Google Chrome Team
>> www.google.com/chrome 
>>
>> 
>>
>> © 2009 Google www.google.com 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain View CA
>> 94043 United States of America.
>>
>> Google is a trademark of Google Inc. All other company and product names
>> may be trademarks of the respective companies with which they are
>> associated.
>> 
>
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Is Google accessible with VO?

[carlene knight]

Hi:  I was under the impression that VO was accessible with Google, butte 
lately I just get images images images, well you get the idea.  I see nothing 
but images.

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Re: System access to go on a mac

[Dave Wright]

Good afternoon all,
System Access and any of it's variants will only work on the windows 
environment. There are rumors of an effort being made to give mac users 
access to the SA Mobile Network features in the near future.


Best Regards:
Dave Wright
Work Phone: 347-422-7085
Email:
dwri...@gmail.com
WebPage:
http://www.knfbreader.com

- Original Message - 
From: "Nicolai Svendsen" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: System access to go on a mac


Hi,

You're running this through a virtual machine, I'll assume, you'd have to. 
So the answer is that it will. The System Access To Go is an executable 
file. You don't have to toggle off VO for any Windows application, as they 
won't conflict unless you use the passthrough key combination. Of course, 
VoiceOver will not read anything WIndows-based for obvious reasons. If 
you're doing this another way, I'm confused as hell.

Regards,
Nic
Skype: Kvalme
MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
AIM: cincinster
yahoo Messenger: cin368
Facebook Profile
My Twitter

On Dec 14, 2009, at 5:18 AM, John J Herzog wrote:

> On 12/13/2009 7:35 PM, Joe Plummer wrote:
>> What I understand it will not work on Mac OS.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sign,
>> JP ( Joe Plummer)
>> joeplum...@tds.net
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of .dan.
>> Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 2:58 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: System access to go on a mac
>>
>>
>> There was a thread about this alternative web based screen reader.  It is
>> intended for use on a windows machine.  Has anyone ever tried it using a 
>> mac
>> with vo?
>>
>> I ask because I have access to a private network and part of it is 
>> reached
>> by starting an internet explorer session on the network to go to 
>> someother
>> parts of the network.  Of course vo stops speaking when ie is running.
>>
>> A sighted friend says the screen looks exactly like the mac is running
>> windows with its menu items etc. and functions with the mouse just like 
>> it
>> is windows running ie.  .  If I could use sa to go I could in principle
>> access that part of the network also using a mac..
>>
>> I assume one would have to toggle off vo while using it, if it works in
>> fact?
>>
>> XB
>>  IC|XC
>>
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>> While system access does not work on the mac, it works beautifully in 
>> VMware fusion. I use it all the time for my windows install.
>>
> Note that VMware and voiceover work well together, so this would be a
> good solution to accessing your network.
>
> John
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Re: VO says "clickable" after reading every line in an article on the web

[James & Nash]

Hi Carlene, 

No, I didn't use VO A to rea the article, I used the VO navigation to read it. 
Thank you for all of your help. I am a long time Mac user, but have only 
recently come back to the Mac.
TC
James
On 14 Dec 2009, at 21:06, carlene knight wrote:

> Hi James;
> 
> I didn't encounter them in the article itself, but the page is full of them.  
> Did you use VO/a to read the article once you got to it?  That's what I did.  
> I wonder if somehow your display is set differently so that you are seeing 
> all of those clickable objects that might be at the end of each line?  I 
> notice there are several ways you can view the page.  I didn't choose low 
> graphics, accessibility, or anything else.  I'll have to think on it though I 
> am no expert and am a new Mac user myself.
> 
> 
> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:56 AM, James & Nash wrote:
> 
>> Hi carlene,
>> 
>> You can pick any news story on the BBC site, but here is the article I was 
>> reading. I would be curious to see if you get the same results as I did. 
>> 
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8411318.stm
>> 
>> Thanks for your help
>> TC
>> James 
>> On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:50, carlene knight wrote:
>> 
>>> What's the URL?  Now you've got me curious.
>>> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:45 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>>> 
 Hi carlene
 
 Thanks so much for your reply. This makes sense, but i don't think that 
 every line on a BBC news article would have a link attached to it would 
 it? I will go back and check.
 
 Thanks again
 
 TC
 James 
 On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:31, carlene knight wrote:
 
> Hi James;
> 
> Usually when that happens it is informing you that there is a link or 
> button you can click on for more information about the particular subject 
> of that line you just read.  For instance if you were reading newspaper 
> article about an ongoing news story, you might see this when referencing 
> a previous article.  Clicking on it would take you to that article.  What 
> you were reading must have a lot of references..  HOpe that helps.
> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:21 AM, James & Nash wrote:
> 
>> Hi list, 
>> 
>> Is there some reason why Voice Over says "clickable" after reading every 
>> line in an article on the internet? Is there some way of turning it off 
>> or is it informing me of some information that I am unaware of?
>> 
>> Thanks 
>> 
>> TC
>> 
>> James 
>> 
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Re: VO says "clickable" after reading every line in an article on the web

[James & Nash]

Thanks Carlene,

TC
James 
On 14 Dec 2009, at 21:53, carlene knight wrote:

> What I do when I hear clickable and I might be interested is to click the 
> mouse button with numbed 5 if  you have the numbed commander on or 
> Vo/shift/space if not.  That seems to work the best.
> 
> 
> On Dec 14, 2009, at 1:36 PM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Yeah, that's the interesting part.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Nic
>> Skype: Kvalme
>> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
>> AIM: cincinster
>> yahoo Messenger: cin368
>> Facebook Profile
>> My Twitter
>> 
>> On Dec 14, 2009, at 9:05 PM, James & Nash wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Nic,
>>> 
>>> Generally, these instances of "clickable"  do not seem to be "clickable" in 
>>> fact lol.
>>> 
>>> TC
>>> James 
>>> On 14 Dec 2009, at 20:02, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:
>>> 
 HI,
 
 I see that a lot of the time on news pages. Danish ones in particular, 
 really.
 
 Regards,
 Nic
 Skype: Kvalme
 MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
 AIM: cincinster
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 Facebook Profile
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 On Dec 14, 2009, at 8:50 PM, carlene knight wrote:
 
> What's the URL?  Now you've got me curious.
> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:45 AM, James & Nash wrote:
> 
>> Hi carlene
>> 
>> Thanks so much for your reply. This makes sense, but i don't think that 
>> every line on a BBC news article would have a link attached to it would 
>> it? I will go back and check.
>> 
>> Thanks again
>> 
>> TC
>> James 
>> On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:31, carlene knight wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi James;
>>> 
>>> Usually when that happens it is informing you that there is a link or 
>>> button you can click on for more information about the particular 
>>> subject of that line you just read.  For instance if you were reading 
>>> newspaper article about an ongoing news story, you might see this when 
>>> referencing a previous article.  Clicking on it would take you to that 
>>> article.  What you were reading must have a lot of references..  HOpe 
>>> that helps.
>>> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:21 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>>> 
 Hi list, 
 
 Is there some reason why Voice Over says "clickable" after reading 
 every line in an article on the internet? Is there some way of turning 
 it off or is it informing me of some information that I am unaware of?
 
 Thanks 
 
 TC
 
 James 
 
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Google

[carlene knight]

 I found out that for some reason I got on Google/images.  that explains it 
though I don't know how that happened as it did yesterday too.  I clicked on 
settings and then checked the URL and that's what had happened.  Live and 
learn, I guess.

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Re: VO says "clickable" after reading every line in an article on the web

[carlene knight]

Maybe the VO navigation reads it differently.  Come to think of it, I had a 
bunch of graphics or something in an article a while back so I stopped reading 
text that way.  I had forgotten about that.  I use the item chooser if I know 
the subject of the article that I want to read an once I get to the text, I hit 
enter to select it and then VO/a to read it to the end.
 On Dec 14, 2009, at 2:42 PM, James & Nash wrote:

> Hi Carlene, 
> 
> No, I didn't use VO A to rea the article, I used the VO navigation to read 
> it. Thank you for all of your help. I am a long time Mac user, but have only 
> recently come back to the Mac.
> TC
> James
> On 14 Dec 2009, at 21:06, carlene knight wrote:
> 
>> Hi James;
>> 
>> I didn't encounter them in the article itself, but the page is full of them. 
>>  Did you use VO/a to read the article once you got to it?  That's what I 
>> did.  I wonder if somehow your display is set differently so that you are 
>> seeing all of those clickable objects that might be at the end of each line? 
>>  I notice there are several ways you can view the page.  I didn't choose low 
>> graphics, accessibility, or anything else.  I'll have to think on it though 
>> I am no expert and am a new Mac user myself.
>> 
>> 
>> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:56 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi carlene,
>>> 
>>> You can pick any news story on the BBC site, but here is the article I was 
>>> reading. I would be curious to see if you get the same results as I did. 
>>> 
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8411318.stm
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your help
>>> TC
>>> James 
>>> On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:50, carlene knight wrote:
>>> 
 What's the URL?  Now you've got me curious.
 On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:45 AM, James & Nash wrote:
 
> Hi carlene
> 
> Thanks so much for your reply. This makes sense, but i don't think that 
> every line on a BBC news article would have a link attached to it would 
> it? I will go back and check.
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> TC
> James 
> On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:31, carlene knight wrote:
> 
>> Hi James;
>> 
>> Usually when that happens it is informing you that there is a link or 
>> button you can click on for more information about the particular 
>> subject of that line you just read.  For instance if you were reading 
>> newspaper article about an ongoing news story, you might see this when 
>> referencing a previous article.  Clicking on it would take you to that 
>> article.  What you were reading must have a lot of references..  HOpe 
>> that helps.
>> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:21 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi list, 
>>> 
>>> Is there some reason why Voice Over says "clickable" after reading 
>>> every line in an article on the internet? Is there some way of turning 
>>> it off or is it informing me of some information that I am unaware of?
>>> 
>>> Thanks 
>>> 
>>> TC
>>> 
>>> James 
>>> 
>>> --
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>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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>> 
> 
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Re: VO says "clickable" after reading every line in an article on the web

[James & Nash]

Cool I'll try that thanks.

TC
James 
On 14 Dec 2009, at 22:47, carlene knight wrote:

> Maybe the VO navigation reads it differently.  Come to think of it, I had a 
> bunch of graphics or something in an article a while back so I stopped 
> reading text that way.  I had forgotten about that.  I use the item chooser 
> if I know the subject of the article that I want to read an once I get to the 
> text, I hit enter to select it and then VO/a to read it to the end.
> On Dec 14, 2009, at 2:42 PM, James & Nash wrote:
> 
>> Hi Carlene, 
>> 
>> No, I didn't use VO A to rea the article, I used the VO navigation to read 
>> it. Thank you for all of your help. I am a long time Mac user, but have only 
>> recently come back to the Mac.
>> TC
>> James
>> On 14 Dec 2009, at 21:06, carlene knight wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi James;
>>> 
>>> I didn't encounter them in the article itself, but the page is full of 
>>> them.  Did you use VO/a to read the article once you got to it?  That's 
>>> what I did.  I wonder if somehow your display is set differently so that 
>>> you are seeing all of those clickable objects that might be at the end of 
>>> each line?  I notice there are several ways you can view the page.  I 
>>> didn't choose low graphics, accessibility, or anything else.  I'll have to 
>>> think on it though I am no expert and am a new Mac user myself.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:56 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>>> 
 Hi carlene,
 
 You can pick any news story on the BBC site, but here is the article I was 
 reading. I would be curious to see if you get the same results as I did. 
 
 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8411318.stm
 
 Thanks for your help
 TC
 James 
 On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:50, carlene knight wrote:
 
> What's the URL?  Now you've got me curious.
> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:45 AM, James & Nash wrote:
> 
>> Hi carlene
>> 
>> Thanks so much for your reply. This makes sense, but i don't think that 
>> every line on a BBC news article would have a link attached to it would 
>> it? I will go back and check.
>> 
>> Thanks again
>> 
>> TC
>> James 
>> On 14 Dec 2009, at 19:31, carlene knight wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi James;
>>> 
>>> Usually when that happens it is informing you that there is a link or 
>>> button you can click on for more information about the particular 
>>> subject of that line you just read.  For instance if you were reading 
>>> newspaper article about an ongoing news story, you might see this when 
>>> referencing a previous article.  Clicking on it would take you to that 
>>> article.  What you were reading must have a lot of references..  HOpe 
>>> that helps.
>>> On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:21 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>>> 
 Hi list, 
 
 Is there some reason why Voice Over says "clickable" after reading 
 every line in an article on the internet? Is there some way of turning 
 it off or is it informing me of some information that I am unaware of?
 
 Thanks 
 
 TC
 
 James 
 
 --
 
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 Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
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 For more options, visit this group at 
 http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
 
 
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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> 
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 Y

Re: IWork: Announcing styles

[Barry Hadder]

Hi,

First of all, vo doesn't see bullets if lists are done through auto formatting 
in word or auto correct in pages.  The only way for that to work that I see is 
for Apple to fix it which they don't sem in any hurry to do.

As far as tables, text boxes, and other objects, there are ways to work with 
them but not very conveniently.  With vo, you can read and edit them quit 
easily as long as they are floating.  At this time however, vo cant read 
in-line objects.  In-line means that they are embedded in the document.  It is 
posable to know that they are there by moving the insertion point over them.  
When you do, you will hear vo say "hi-lited".  

Now, do the fallowing:
Make sure "show inspector" is selected in the view menu.
Vo-f2 twice to find the inspector window.
Select the rap radio button
Select the floating radio button

Now you will be able to find and work with the object in question with vo in 
the layout area.

If the object is a table, you can also select "transform table to text" from 
the format/table menu.

Of course, the best solution is for Apple to fix these problems.  In my 
opinion, if vo could see auto formatted bullets and in-line objects, pages and 
vo would be far superior to ms word and Windows screen readers.
I may have left something out, so let me know if anything is unclear.
Hope that helps.


On Dec 13, 2009, at 5:01 PM, Daniel K. Gartmann wrote:

>  
> Hi,
>  
> I had to insert text into a fairly complex document in IWorks today and 
> couldn't get VO to automatically alert me of changes such as bullets, tables, 
> etc. the document came from Microsoft Word 2003.
>  
> Obviously this kind of information is important when working on a corporate 
> document so, does anybody know how to get this info read out automatically as 
> you read through the document?
>  
> I had to do the job using Microsoft Word, but there must be some way around 
> this on the Mac.
>  
> Thanks in advance.
>  
> Daniel
>  
> 
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Help with Skype

[Tony Meade]

I installed Skype today and I  am having a little trouble which I hope someone 
can help me with.
Is there anyway to find out what the status of each person is? Right now I have 
to guess.
Lastly, I can read my messages,  but I can not find where to read the incoming 
messages.
Any help with these issues would be greatly appreciated.

Tony

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Re: Help with Skype

[Chantel Cuddemi]

Skype doesn't read your contacts' statuses. To read the chats, you need to 
interact with the main frame and then in tract with the chat frame. 

On Dec 14, 2009, at 7:43 PM, Tony Meade wrote:

> I installed Skype today and I  am having a little trouble which I hope 
> someone can help me with.
> Is there anyway to find out what the status of each person is? Right now I 
> have to guess.
> Lastly, I can read my messages,  but I can not find where to read the 
> incoming messages.
> Any help with these issues would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Tony
> 
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> 

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MacBook Pro and the trackpad

[Robert Carter]

Hi All,

I have a one month old MacBook Pro. Today the trackpad was not working. I 
restarted the computer and it worked again as expected. This evening, however, 
it is not working again. I really enjoy using the trackpad with VoiceOver. Does 
anybody have any idea how to troubleshoot this?

Thanks,

Robert Carter

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Re: MacBook Pro and the trackpad

[peter apgar]

it is possible that you downloaded an update and it shut off the track 
commander.  check under VO controls, and turn it back on.  I have had this 
exact experience  happen when  running updates.

good luck

Pete
On Dec 14, 2009, at 9:22 PM, Robert Carter wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> I have a one month old MacBook Pro. Today the trackpad was not working. I 
> restarted the computer and it worked again as expected. This evening, 
> however, it is not working again. I really enjoy using the trackpad with 
> VoiceOver. Does anybody have any idea how to troubleshoot this?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Robert Carter
> 
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