Re: (new) iphone accessibility?

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Anowk,

On Jul 17, 2009, at 1:36 AM, a radix wrote:
> I came across a lot of mention too the iphone which surprised me. I  
> know the new model has built-in voicover but it still uses a  
> touchscreen (not even just a scrollwheel with some buttons, I know  
> that that can work from my 5.5g imod and rockbox experience but a  
> full touch screen) so I was rather sceptical. I know there is some  
> kind of voice recognition software inside but how far will that get  
> you and how good isit? I once heard it on an old nokia and was NOT  
> impressed.
>
> I am very interested in this iphone sinc eI can get a new phone in  
> october,
>
I've had my iPhone for 3 weeks now and find that I'm using it more and  
more. I'm totally blind but have no difficulty navigating the touch  
screen. It takes a while to get used to the virtual keyboard but I'm  
getting better at that, too.

I'm a bit unusual in that I use my iPhone in two languages, English  
and French. Switching languages is not that quick, but it is easy. You  
can also have as many keyboards as you like. Actually, I have more  
than I would like but haven't yet figured out how to delete the  
American keyboard and just keep British and French.

I strongly recommend the iPhone since it is so versatile and more and  
more apps are becoming available for it every day.

Cheers,

Anne


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Re: ipod touch

[a radix]

Hey, no I dont think rockbox works on any of the newer ipods. I have a sansa 
clip now though and am happy with it especially since there is no need for 
itunes which is unaccessible with the version of hal I am using. I know hal is 
not the greatest but it is intuitive and fast/good with braille (never have to 
use speech at all).
Greetings, Anouk,
  - Original Message - 
  From: william lomas 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 8:55 AM
  Subject: Re: ipod touch


  well the new ipod touch coming out, i believe, will ahve the voiceover 
capabilities built in but i think rockbox at the moment can work on it


  On 17 Jul 2009, at 07:49, a radix wrote:


Hello, I dont want to buy one of these but I was still curious, does the 
ipod touch use an actual screenreader (voiceover) or does it use voiceclips 
like the classic (if the classic does it yet|) and the shuffle? In the first 
case then I guess using voicover on the iphone was an evolutionary step.
I just listened to a podcast about iphone/voiceover and it seems all rpetty 
exiting. It was a general tal kbroadcast though, i would still love to hear a 
handson demo but with som eof the features being described it sure seems 
workable.
Greetings, Anouk,







  



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Buying from Amazon

[James & Nash]

Hi everyone,

I've been  looking on Amazon and the MacBook is cheaper on there. Has anyone 
bought there MacBook from anywhere other than Apple store or an authorized 
reseller and would they recommend getting it from Amazon?

Thank you

James 


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Re: Buying from Amazon

[william lomas]

amazon are perfect for the mac really you will get fast shipment etc

On 17 Jul 2009, at 09:27, James & Nash wrote:

>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've been  looking on Amazon and the MacBook is cheaper on there.  
> Has anyone
> bought there MacBook from anywhere other than Apple store or an  
> authorized
> reseller and would they recommend getting it from Amazon?
>
> Thank you
>
> James
>
>
> >


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How do you change the keyboard language and a query about Apple Online Store France

[James & Nash]

Hi everyone,

How easy is it to change the keyboard language on Mac OS X? When I use 
Windows, I alternate between English and French. Can this be done with a 
keystroke?

Also, how quickly does the Apple Online store in France ship? I ask for when 
I will be moving out to France as I've not had a chance yet to look at the 
French store.

Thank you

James 


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Re: How do you change the keyboard language and a query about Apple Online Store France

[william lomas]

you can set up multiple input languages not sure of the keystroke but  
you can do it from the input menu

On 17 Jul 2009, at 09:30, James & Nash wrote:

>
> Hi everyone,
>
> How easy is it to change the keyboard language on Mac OS X? When I use
> Windows, I alternate between English and French. Can this be done  
> with a
> keystroke?
>
> Also, how quickly does the Apple Online store in France ship? I ask  
> for when
> I will be moving out to France as I've not had a chance yet to look  
> at the
> French store.
>
> Thank you
>
> James
>
>
> >


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Re: How do you change the keyboard language and a query about Apple Online Store France

[Anne Robertson]

Hello James,

On Jul 17, 2009, at 10:30 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>
> How easy is it to change the keyboard language on Mac OS X? When I use
> Windows, I alternate between English and French. Can this be done  
> with a
> keystroke?
Once you've set up a second input, the key stroke to change keyboards  
is Command-Space. You can have the Status menu show which keyboard is  
active.

>
> Also, how quickly does the Apple Online store in France ship?
It all depends on what you order. Some things arrive within 48 hours,  
others take longer.

Cheers,

Anne


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Re: How do you change the keyboard language and a query about Apple Online Store France

[James & Nash]

Hi Anne, 
Thank you for the comfirmation. 

Does the Comand Space command to switch keyboard layout conflict with the same 
command for Spotlight?

Thanks 

james 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Anne Robertson 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 10:00 AM
  Subject: Re: How do you change the keyboard language and a query about Apple 
Online Store France


  Hello James,


  On Jul 17, 2009, at 10:30 AM, James & Nash wrote:

How easy is it to change the keyboard language on Mac OS X? When I use 
Windows, I alternate between English and French. Can this be done with a 
keystroke?

  Once you've set up a second input, the key stroke to change keyboards is 
Command-Space. You can have the Status menu show which keyboard is active.



Also, how quickly does the Apple Online store in France ship?
  It all depends on what you order. Some things arrive within 48 hours, others 
take longer.


  Cheers,


  Anne



  

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Re: Alex: resources

[Scott Howell]

You can go to http://www.lioncourt.com, http://www.screenlessswitchers.com 
, and you can find podcasts on the Mac as well at http://www.blindcooltech.com 
. There are other resources and of course http://www.apple.com/accessibility 
  will contain lots of information. Others will share their resources  
as well, I am sure.

Good luck,

On Jul 17, 2009, at 2:48 AM, a radix wrote:

> Hey Alex and others, sorry I remember you mentioning lincourt.com  
> but what were the other resources you mentioned? I accidentally  
> deleted your message before saving it.
> Greetings, Anouk,
>
> >


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Re: Buying from Amazon

[Scott Howell]

James, I don't know what constitutes a "authorized dealer", but as  
long as it is a new machine, that is what matters. I don't know if it  
is Amazon selling the machine or Amazon advertising on behalf of a  
third-party company, but provided again it is a new machine and your  
getting the full warranty, that is all that matters.

On Jul 17, 2009, at 4:27 AM, James & Nash wrote:

>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've been  looking on Amazon and the MacBook is cheaper on there.  
> Has anyone
> bought there MacBook from anywhere other than Apple store or an  
> authorized
> reseller and would they recommend getting it from Amazon?
>
> Thank you
>
> James


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macbook pro questions

[a radix]

Hello everyone, Sorry for the flooding with post I have been doing but after 
discovering all of this mac accessibility I am just pretty excited sinc eI did 
not know anything about this before and i love learning about new stuff that 
can 'widen my perspective'. 

I have been thinking about buying a macbook pro (if I go mac I want to do it 
well immediately and it seems to be the best choice price/performance anyway 
especially the 2.6mhz model which has dedicated video memory which should help 
when watching movies or tv series). To be honest I think macs are rather 
overpriced though in comparison to the competition. I know the screenreader is 
included but I have hal liecenses left so there would be no added cost for me 
anyway. Here is to hoping that the apple store will have some kind of action 
when i buy one. Does anyone know if you can have the store replace the hd with 
a 500 gb 7200rpm variant?

Are there any reviews of the new model macbook pro? Google didnt show up that 
many of them.

Thanks in advance for the information,

Greetings, Anouk,

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Re: How do you change the keyboard language and a query about Apple Online Store France

[william lomas]

yes so change spotlight to something different?
It is better in my view to have the input menu on the status bar

On 17 Jul 2009, at 10:23, James & Nash wrote:

> Hi Anne,
> Thank you for the comfirmation.
>
> Does the Comand Space command to switch keyboard layout conflict  
> with the same command for Spotlight?
>
> Thanks
>
> james
> - Original Message -
> From: Anne Robertson
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 10:00 AM
> Subject: Re: How do you change the keyboard language and a query  
> about Apple Online Store France
>
> Hello James,
>
> On Jul 17, 2009, at 10:30 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>>
>> How easy is it to change the keyboard language on Mac OS X? When I  
>> use
>> Windows, I alternate between English and French. Can this be done  
>> with a
>> keystroke?
> Once you've set up a second input, the key stroke to change  
> keyboards is Command-Space. You can have the Status menu show which  
> keyboard is active.
>
>>
>> Also, how quickly does the Apple Online store in France ship?
> It all depends on what you order. Some things arrive within 48  
> hours, others take longer.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Anne
>
>
>
> >


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daisy

[william lomas]

hi did someone mention a new diasy player was available for the mac?


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RE: IPhones

[Simon Fogarty]

Thanks for that. 
 So if the 16gig version is that much cheaper not that I'm in the USA  to by
from at&t.

The 16 would be all I neex to have full accessibility.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Fonzie
Sent: Friday, 17 July 2009 12:44 a.m.
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: IPhones


Hello Simon, how are you doing?

Yes, you are correct in your assumption.

Both models, iPhone 3GS 16 GB, and iPhone 3GS 32 GB, contain VoiceOver  
onboard.

The prices are as follows.  Keep in mind, I am listing the prices for  
the AT&T versions of these phones.

If you are wanting to upgrade to a new two year agreement the prices  
are as follows.
iPhone3GS 16GB $199.99
iPhone3GS 32GB $299.99

If AT&T allows you to do an early upgrade, in which that renews your  
contract for two years within your current contract, the prices are as  
follows.  Keep in mind, not everyone is eligible for a contract  
renewal.  All it simply means is, that your currently under contract,  
and if you are eligible, you can upgrade with the understanding that  
you are extending your contract for another two years.  Remember, you  
must be under contract already, for this to happen.  You usually have  
to be under contract for about a year, and they will allow you to  
upgrade early to a newer device.

iPhone 3GS 16GB $399.99
iPhone 3GS 32GB $499.99

If you feel like buying an iPHone straight, with no contract, and  
under AT&T's retail price, the list is as follows.
iPhone 3GS 16GB $499.99
iPhone 3GS 32GB $599.99

I hope this helps.

Take care.

Fonzie

On Jul 16, 2009, at 5:39 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

>
> Morning folks,
>
> Am I orrect in thinking there is a 32 and a 16 gig IPhone 3gs?
>
> And if so, does the 16 gig version have the VO / accessibility  
> onboard!?
>
> And what price are they going for In u s dollars if possible!
>
> Thanks
>
> simon
>
>
> >




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downloads stacks

[william lomas]

hi all


How do I open the downloads stack ont he dock? I assume that this  
points to the downloads folder in my home directory?
Pressing voice over space yields nothing


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Re: macbook pro questions

[Scott Howell]

There are reviews, you can get larger drives, but generally that  
requires you order it from the online store, but it may be your local  
store will upgrade the drive, check with them, and you can't really  
compare the cost of a Mac with a PC. Your talking apples and oranges,  
ha ha. The Mac in many cases provides not only higher quality  
hardware, but more innovative technologies in each of their machines.  
In other words, your getting what you paid for unlike with PCs where  
you tend to get slower and lesser quality hardware from my experience.
On Jul 17, 2009, at 6:05 AM, a radix wrote:

> Hello everyone, Sorry for the flooding with post I have been doing  
> but after discovering all of this mac accessibility I am just pretty  
> excited sinc eI did not know anything about this before and i love  
> learning about new stuff that can 'widen my perspective'.
>
> I have been thinking about buying a macbook pro (if I go mac I want  
> to do it well immediately and it seems to be the best choice price/ 
> performance anyway especially the 2.6mhz model which has dedicated  
> video memory which should help when watching movies or tv series).  
> To be honest I think macs are rather overpriced though in comparison  
> to the competition. I know the screenreader is included but I have  
> hal liecenses left so there would be no added cost for me anyway.  
> Here is to hoping that the apple store will have some kind of action  
> when i buy one. Does anyone know if you can have the store replace  
> the hd with a 500 gb 7200rpm variant?
>
> Are there any reviews of the new model macbook pro? Google didnt  
> show up that many of them.
>
> Thanks in advance for the information,
>
> Greetings, Anouk,
>
>
> >


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Re: iTunes songs for .69 was Re: NLS digital books and future versions of iTunes,iPod, iPhone?

[Scott Howell]

Hey, look for Hank Crawford's From the Heart, which the entire album  
costs $6.21 and you will see each track is $.69. Now maybe you don't  
like Jazz, but for me, yeah, I love the stuff and that's a good  
price. :)
On Jul 16, 2009, at 6:08 PM, Jenny Kennedy (Howard) wrote:

>
> wow,
> You've found stuff for 69 cents? Where? What was it? All the stuff
> I've come upon is 99 or 1.29 the more expensive stuff seems to be
> whatever was/is popular.  Bought a song by Garbage that is way over 10
> years old and it was 1.29 and several new but not as popular stuff
> that was just 99 but have never ever come acrross any 69 cents. Even
> the songs that are crap seem to be 99.
> *smile*
> Best Wishes
> Jenny Kennedy (Howard)
> blueskyes9112...@gmail.com
> Olathe, Kansas USA
>
> Join me on FaceBook:
> Personal Profile - www.facebook.com/blueskyes
> And feel free to join "The Blind Parents of FaceBook" group.  Search
> for it in groups or contact me for details.
>
> Follow me via twitter using the username: ben_folds_fan
>
>
> >


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Re: ipod touch

[Barry Lipscomb]

Apple has not said anything about the touch and VO but it is very  
likely that they would do this.  Early September they always do a  
refresh of the iPods for Christmas.  Let's hope they do this.  Also,  
how would you put rockbox on the ipod, I don't think you can.

Barry

On Jul 17, 2009, at 12:55 AM, william lomas wrote:

> well the new ipod touch coming out, i believe, will ahve the  
> voiceover capabilities built in but i think rockbox at the moment  
> can work on it
>
> On 17 Jul 2009, at 07:49, a radix wrote:
>
>> Hello, I dont want to buy one of these but I was still curious,  
>> does the ipod touch use an actual screenreader (voiceover) or does  
>> it use voiceclips like the classic (if the classic does it yet|)  
>> and the shuffle? In the first case then I guess using voicover on  
>> the iphone was an evolutionary step.
>> I just listened to a podcast about iphone/voiceover and it seems  
>> all rpetty exiting. It was a general tal kbroadcast though, i would  
>> still love to hear a handson demo but with som eof the features  
>> being described it sure seems workable.
>> Greetings, Anouk,
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> >


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Re: downloads stacks

[Jonathan C. Cohn]

YOur assumption is 100% correct. If you use the VO-shift-M option you  
can change the view from stack to folder and I think that is a lot  
more accessable.

On Jul 17, 2009, at 6:32 AM, william lomas wrote:

>
>   hi all
>
>
> How do I open the downloads stack ont he dock? I assume that this
> points to the downloads folder in my home directory?
> Pressing voice over space yields nothing
>
>
> >


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Re: downloads stacks

[william lomas]

no it is still not opening even under folder

On 17 Jul 2009, at 13:06, Jonathan C. Cohn wrote:

>
> YOur assumption is 100% correct. If you use the VO-shift-M option you
> can change the view from stack to folder and I think that is a lot
> more accessable.
>
> On Jul 17, 2009, at 6:32 AM, william lomas wrote:
>
>>
>>  hi all
>>
>>
>> How do I open the downloads stack ont he dock? I assume that this
>> points to the downloads folder in my home directory?
>> Pressing voice over space yields nothing
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: downloads stacks

[Jonathan C. Cohn]

The other option I have check is list.

On Jul 17, 2009, at 8:08 AM, william lomas wrote:

>
> no it is still not opening even under folder
>
> On 17 Jul 2009, at 13:06, Jonathan C. Cohn wrote:
>
>>
>> YOur assumption is 100% correct. If you use the VO-shift-M option you
>> can change the view from stack to folder and I think that is a lot
>> more accessable.
>>
>> On Jul 17, 2009, at 6:32 AM, william lomas wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> hi all
>>>
>>>
>>> How do I open the downloads stack ont he dock? I assume that this
>>> points to the downloads folder in my home directory?
>>> Pressing voice over space yields nothing
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: How do you change the keyboard language and a query about Apple Online Store France

[Esther]

Hi James,

You asked:

> Hi Anne,
>
> Does the Comand Space command to switch keyboard layout conflict  
> with the same command for Spotlight?
>

The Command Space shortcut definition to change input language  
keyboards actually predates the existence of Spotlight on the Mac.   
There are a couple of options: you can keep using Command Space to  
switch your keyboard input and use VoiceOver's shortcut of pressing VO- 
keys+M (Control-Option-M) three times instead as a shortcut for  
Spotlight, or you can change the shortcut command for Spotlight to  
Control Space.  In fact, after you set up the input language keyboards  
you want by checking language options in the table on the Input  
Keyboard tab of the International menu under System Preferences,  you  
can press a button to go to the keyboard shortcuts assignment menu.   
If you check the box in the table of shortcuts to activate the default  
shortcut for both Input Menu (switching) in addition to having the box  
checked for Spotlight's default shortcut, you'll be warned that there  
are conflicting definitions.  However, if you stop interacting with  
the table of shortcuts and press the button for "Restore Defaults",  
the system will change the Spotlight shortcut command to Control  
Space.  These are the shortcut definitions you wind up with in that  
case:

Input Menu:
Select the previous input source -- Command-Space
Select the next input source in the input menu -- Option-Command-Space

Spotlight Menu:
Show Spotlight search field -- Control-Space
Show Spotlight windows -- Control-Option Space

(The only actions here were to check the box for the Input Menu  
shortcut in the table and then to press the button for "Restore  
Defaults")

Note that there are shortcuts for both previous input language and  
next input language.  If you only switch between two language  
keyboards in your list, you can just use Command-Space, however for a  
longer list of input languages you might want to ability to switch  
keyboards from either direction (cycling either up or down a list).

Finally, you're probably used to using a regular French keyboard, like  
Anne.  I switch to French input less frequently, so I find it easier  
to use a Canadian French input keyboard so I don't have to think about  
switching the position of Q and A or W and Z keys when I type, but so  
that I can still type accents easily.  You can find a description of  
the differences in the Mail Archive pages for this list:

http://www.mail-archive.com/discuss%40macvisionaries.com/msg32044.html
(Using the Canadian French Keyboard for French Accents)


Cheers,

Esther


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Re: ipod touch

[Scott Howell]

And what would be the point as far as the Touch is concerned. Man I  
remember trying Rockbox and didn't like it much since the voice would  
tend to act rather oddly at times. :)
On Jul 17, 2009, at 8:06 AM, Barry Lipscomb wrote:

> Apple has not said anything about the touch and VO but it is very  
> likely that they would do this.  Early September they always do a  
> refresh of the iPods for Christmas.  Let's hope they do this.  Also,  
> how would you put rockbox on the ipod, I don't think you can.
>
> Barry
>
> On Jul 17, 2009, at 12:55 AM, william lomas wrote:
>
>> well the new ipod touch coming out, i believe, will ahve the  
>> voiceover capabilities built in but i think rockbox at the moment  
>> can work on it
>>
>> On 17 Jul 2009, at 07:49, a radix wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, I dont want to buy one of these but I was still curious,  
>>> does the ipod touch use an actual screenreader (voiceover) or does  
>>> it use voiceclips like the classic (if the classic does it yet|)  
>>> and the shuffle? In the first case then I guess using voicover on  
>>> the iphone was an evolutionary step.
>>> I just listened to a podcast about iphone/voiceover and it seems  
>>> all rpetty exiting. It was a general tal kbroadcast though, i  
>>> would still love to hear a handson demo but with som eof the  
>>> features being described it sure seems workable.
>>> Greetings, Anouk,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> >


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best twitter client

[william lomas]

hi what is the best twitter client people are using on the mac?


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does reading on the mac take two hands?

[a radix]

Hello everyone, ok this may sem elike a strange question but I read that, if 
you want to navigate through a window to review it, or a document for example 
you need to use the voice key (which is either command or control if i got that 
right)+ arrow down or up, but would tha tnot require both hand and is there a 
way to do it single handedly. I use braille all the time and this would make it 
a lot slower for me to read stuff, or will maybe the arrow keys on my braille 
display be able to simulate this, i Wonder.
Greetings, Anouk,
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Re: does reading on the mac take two hands?

[william lomas]

you have to use control option and arrow keys, to navigate around

On 17 Jul 2009, at 14:31, a radix wrote:

> Hello everyone, ok this may sem elike a strange question but I read  
> that, if you want to navigate through a window to review it, or a  
> document for example you need to use the voice key (which is either  
> command or control if i got that right)+ arrow down or up, but would  
> tha tnot require both hand and is there a way to do it single  
> handedly. I use braille all the time and this would make it a lot  
> slower for me to read stuff, or will maybe the arrow keys on my  
> braille display be able to simulate this, i Wonder.
> Greetings, Anouk,
>
> >


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Re: macbook pro questions

[Chris Blouch]

Its an age old debate. Generally Macs are pretty close in price to PCs 
with similar hardware options. The trick is Apple doesn't sell stripped 
down low end hardware or 101 combinations of various options. So the 
common complaint folks have is when they try to compare to some bargain 
basement computer that lacks many of the mac's features. Some features 
that are often missed on laptops are backlit keys, built-in webcam, 
digital audio in and out, 3 second wake/sleep time, magsafe power 
connector, highly recyclable low poison construction, firewire, 73 
watthour battery, Wireless 802.11N and multi-touch trackpad. Not all of 
these features (and this is just off the top of my head) will be useful 
to all people but generally it's all best of class. For example, you 
have to check the fine print on some Dell laptops to find out that the 
802.11N wireless network is an optional upgrade, not standard and the 
higher capacity 74 watt hour battery is also an optional upgrade. Throw 
in the rock-solid OSX with the great iLife apps and Front Row and it 
gets much harder to compare. Some would also argue that VO is a superior 
screen reader both in quality of annunciation and navigation model, not 
to mention price.

So in the end, you've got some top-end hardware that stacks up pretty 
well against the PCs and the harder to compare high-quality apps bundled 
and it makes for a compelling system. Throw in the vagaries of security, 
viruses and spyware and the Mac sounds like an oasis of pulchritude. For 
most Mac users it works out to more time doing stuff and less time 
fiddling with the tool. It's a sharper safer and more durable knife.

CB

Scott Howell wrote:
> There are reviews, you can get larger drives, but generally that 
> requires you order it from the online store, but it may be your local 
> store will upgrade the drive, check with them, and you can't really 
> compare the cost of a Mac with a PC. Your talking apples and oranges, 
> ha ha. The Mac in many cases provides not only higher quality 
> hardware, but more innovative technologies in each of their machines. 
> In other words, your getting what you paid for unlike with PCs where 
> you tend to get slower and lesser quality hardware from my experience.
> On Jul 17, 2009, at 6:05 AM, a radix wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone, Sorry for the flooding with post I have been doing 
>> but after discovering all of this mac accessibility I am just pretty 
>> excited sinc eI did not know anything about this before and i love 
>> learning about new stuff that can 'widen my perspective'.
>>
>> I have been thinking about buying a macbook pro (if I go mac I want 
>> to do it well immediately and it seems to be the best choice 
>> price/performance anyway especially the 2.6mhz model which has 
>> dedicated video memory which should help when watching movies or tv 
>> series). To be honest I think macs are rather overpriced though in 
>> comparison to the competition. I know the screenreader is included 
>> but I have hal liecenses left so there would be no added cost for me 
>> anyway. Here is to hoping that the apple store will have some kind of 
>> action when i buy one. Does anyone know if you can have the store 
>> replace the hd with a 500 gb 7200rpm variant?
>>
>> Are there any reviews of the new model macbook pro? Google didnt show 
>> up that many of them.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for the information,
>>
>> Greetings, Anouk,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> >

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Accessible (free) NumberKey app for iPhone works with NumPad Commander and other applications

[Esther]

Hello all,

There's a numeric keypad app for the iPhone/iPod Touch called  
NumberKey, or NumberKey Lite (for the free version), that I'd like to  
ask list members to check out for accessibility.  This utility app  
made by Balmuda works for both Windows and for the Mac, and allows you  
to use the touch screen of your iPhone as a numeric keypad for your  
laptop.  This is handy for data entry, but has broader implications  
for Mac users because you can use it to run VoiceOver's NumPad  
Commander and take advantage of its additional features and shortcut  
customization if you are using a Mac laptop without an embedded  
numeric keypad -- in other words, any MacBook made after about  
November 2007, any MacBook Pro manufactured after February 2008, and  
any MacBook Air or unibody MacBook or MacBook Pro. A Mac user who  
needs to use VoiceOver's shortcuts with fewer keystrokes from a laptop  
can now do so. Furthermore, if you use programs that use the numeric  
keypad, such as the music composition program Sibelius, you can run  
these entirely from a laptop using the iPhone or iPod Touch for the  
numeric keypad via this program.  Finally, I suspect that it's also  
possible for people who are running Windows on their Intel Mac laptops  
with VMWare's Fusion to use the numeric keypad for screen readers that  
use the insert key; currently Mac laptop users need to remap functions  
to other keys using either a third-party application like Spark, or by  
using the Fusion preference settings.  However, this is a secondary  
capability that would require checking by someone using this set up.

To use the application you must download the NumberKey Connect  
software for your version of either Mac OS X or Windows from Balmuda's  
web site and start it running on your computer. There's a separate  
version for Tiger, so make sure to get the correct version of  
NumberKey Connect from the download page.  Your iPhone or iPod Touch  
must be using the same wireless network as your computer. When both  
the app is running on your iPhone and NumberKey Connect is running on  
your laptop, you'll be able to see and connect to the your iPod device  
in the NumberKey Connect window.   If there is no wireless network  
present, you can create an ad hoc Computer-to-Computer network using  
the "Create Network" menu option from the AirPort menu on your menu  
bar.  Basically, instead of selecting a wireless network to join, you  
select the "Create Network" option and type in a name for the Computer- 
to-Computer network you want to create in the text box for the "Create  
a Computer-to-Computer dialog window that pops up.  The default name  
will be  MacBook or something similar.  You can also  
select the wireless channel you want to use on the pop up button (or  
leave this on the automatic selection), and check the box if you want  
to require a password. Then, on your iPhone or iPod Touch, you join a  
wireless network named  MacBook, and launch the app.   
Once you've launched the app on the iPhone or iPod Touch and have  
started the NumberKey Connect on your computer, the software will  
identify your iPod and let you press (VO-space) the connect button.   
If there is more than one iPod running the app, you'll be able to  
select the device you want to use from a pop up button, and can also  
designate a particular iPhone or iPod Touch as the default device to  
use with this app.

I tried this out with a friend's iPod Touch half a year ago when I was  
looking for a numeric keypad so I could use NumPad Commander with my  
new MacBook running Leopard. Once the app is running on the iPod Touch  
or iPhone, you can do everything accessibly running the NumberKey  
Connect program on your Mac.  For example, if you turn on keyboard  
practice mode (Control-Option-K), every "key" you touch on the surface  
of the iPhone/iPod Touch's numeric keypad app gets announced, so you  
learn their positions.  If you have a TextEdit window open and your  
verbosity set to announce character inputs, you'll hear each number or  
operation of the keypad announced as you touch the surface.  Since  
then Balmuda has come out with a free version of the app.  The paid  
($1.99) version of the app allows you to flick to a second cursor  
screen that has the six-pack set of escape, home, page up, delete,  
end, and page down keys, and also use the inverted T set of cursor  
arrow keys.  These also work with VoiceOver. If I'm in TextEdit mode  
and I've used the number pad to enter numbers or math operations,  
flicking to the cursor screen and touching the left or right arrow key  
position on the iPod screen will announce movements of the cursor  
through my numeric entries in TextEdit, just as using the cursor keys  
on my MacBook would.  Again, it was easiest to learn the positions of  
the keys on the screen surface by turning VoiceOver keyboard practice  
mode on.  For the numeric keypad screen, pressing the clear button in  
the

Re: downloads stacks

[Alex]

Hi,

I think that you just press up arrow or "VO" + "Space".

Regards,
Alex,


On Jul 17, 2009, at 3:32 AM, william lomas wrote:

>
>   hi all
>
>
> How do I open the downloads stack ont he dock? I assume that this
> points to the downloads folder in my home directory?
> Pressing voice over space yields nothing
>
>
> >


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Re: does reading on the mac take two hands?

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Anowk,


On Jul 17, 2009, at 3:31 PM, a radix wrote:
> I read that, if you want to navigate through a window to review it,  
> or a document for example you need to use the voice key (which is  
> either command or control if i got that right)+ arrow down or up,  
> but would tha tnot require both hand and is there a way to do it  
> single handedly.
The VoiceOver commands require you to press the Control and Option  
keys, known as the VO keys. However, you can lock these keys using VO- 
Semicolon. I always do this when browsing the Net.

> I use braille all the time and this would make it a lot slower for  
> me to read stuff, or will maybe the arrow keys on my braille display  
> be able to simulate this, i Wonder.
You can configure the controls on your Braille display to perform  
whatever action you like from the commands list. You can also click  
links from your Braille display.

Cheers,

Anne


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Re: does reading on the mac take two hands?

[erik burggraaf]

Hi, you will get best joy out of your braille display, since a button  
on your display will be set to scroll right and another to scroll  
left.  In many instances where reading is required, such as typing a  
document in text edit, the arrow keys do just fine on their own with  
out needing to use the voice over keys.  When you need to use the  
voice over keys for long periods of reading, your best bet is to  
simply lock the voice over keys with control option semicolon.  Once  
you do that, every press on the keybord will act as if you also  
pressed the voice over keys even though you haven't actually pressed  
them.  Or to think of it another way, the voice over keys will be  
perminantly pressed without you needing to take care of that yourself  
until you press the semicolon to releace them.

All things being equal though I suspect you will probably turn speech  
off and use braille exclusively if you really like braille.  I have a  
friend who does this and it's sick to watch.  I'd love to be able to  
do it, but I'm just not that good at braille.

Best,

erik burggraaf
A+ sertified technician and user support consultant.
Phone: 888-255-5194
Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com

On 17-Jul-09, at 9:31 AM, a radix wrote:

> Hello everyone, ok this may sem elike a strange question but I read  
> that, if you want to navigate through a window to review it, or a  
> document for example you need to use the voice key (which is either  
> command or control if i got that right)+ arrow down or up, but would  
> tha tnot require both hand and is there a way to do it single  
> handedly. I use braille all the time and this would make it a lot  
> slower for me to read stuff, or will maybe the arrow keys on my  
> braille display be able to simulate this, i Wonder.
> Greetings, Anouk,
>
> >


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Re: does reading on the mac take two hands?

[Alex]

Hi,

Most of the time you can use "Down Arrow/Up Arrow/Left Arrow/Right  
Arrow" in documents.

Regards,
Aex,


On Jul 17, 2009, at 6:56 AM, Anne Robertson wrote:

> Hello Anowk,
>
>
> On Jul 17, 2009, at 3:31 PM, a radix wrote:
>> I read that, if you want to navigate through a window to review it,  
>> or a document for example you need to use the voice key (which is  
>> either command or control if i got that right)+ arrow down or up,  
>> but would tha tnot require both hand and is there a way to do it  
>> single handedly.
> The VoiceOver commands require you to press the Control and Option  
> keys, known as the VO keys. However, you can lock these keys using  
> VO-Semicolon. I always do this when browsing the Net.
>
>> I use braille all the time and this would make it a lot slower for  
>> me to read stuff, or will maybe the arrow keys on my braille  
>> display be able to simulate this, i Wonder.
> You can configure the controls on your Braille display to perform  
> whatever action you like from the commands list. You can also click  
> links from your Braille display.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Anne
>
>
> >


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Re: does reading on the mac take two hands?

[Esther]

Hi Anouk,

Although you use the VoiceOver keys (Control and Option) for  
navigation, you can lock these keys on with VO-semi-colon (Control- 
Option-Semi-colon).  Then any commands you issue assume that the  
VoiceOver keys (Control and Option) are engaged until your press semi- 
colon again.  Many people lock their VoiceOver keys while reading long  
pages.

Another alternative is to use NumPad Commander (with Leopard).  This  
is a functionality that uses the numeric keypad to pre-program  
shortcuts for the most common VoiceOver commands.  You need to use  
either a full keyboard, an older Mac laptop with embedded numeric  
keypad, or a current Mac laptop with either attached numeric keypad or  
keyboard with numeric keypad in order to use NumPad Commander.  Or, as  
I've just posted, you may be able to use the free NumberKey app on an  
iPhone to use your iPhone as a numeric keypad that works with NumPad  
Commander shortcuts.  You can customize NumPad Commander with your own  
shortcut definitions as well as using their standard set.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Esther
On Jul 17, 2009, at 03:44, william lomas wrote:

> you have to use control option and arrow keys, to navigate around
>
> On 17 Jul 2009, at 14:31, a radix wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone, ok this may sem elike a strange question but I read  
>> that, if you want to navigate through a window to review it, or a  
>> document for example you need to use the voice key (which is either  
>> command or control if i got that right)+ arrow down or up, but  
>> would tha tnot require both hand and is there a way to do it single  
>> handedly. I use braille all the time and this would make it a lot  
>> slower for me to read stuff, or will maybe the arrow keys on my  
>> braille display be able to simulate this, i Wonder.
>> Greetings, Anouk,
>>
>>
>>
>


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Re: does reading on the mac take two hands?

[Chris Blouch]

You can also lock the voiceover keys on with VO and semicolon. Then you 
don't have to hold down control and option while doing voiceover commands.

CB

william lomas wrote:
> you have to use control option and arrow keys, to navigate around
>
> On 17 Jul 2009, at 14:31, a radix wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone, ok this may sem elike a strange question but I read 
>> that, if you want to navigate through a window to review it, or a 
>> document for example you need to use the voice key (which is either 
>> command or control if i got that right)+ arrow down or up, but would 
>> tha tnot require both hand and is there a way to do it single 
>> handedly. I use braille all the time and this would make it a lot 
>> slower for me to read stuff, or will maybe the arrow keys on my 
>> braille display be able to simulate this, i Wonder.
>> Greetings, Anouk,
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> >

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Re: daisy

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Will,

Have you tried Olearia?

You can download it from:


Cheers,

Anne


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Re: best twitter client

[Mike Reiser]

I'd say syrinx.

Mike

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Re: macbook pro questions

[Chris Blouch]

Luckily used Mac hardware seems to hold up well and a MacMini works just 
as well as any laptop if you don't need portability. Only snag is that 
upcoming OS upgrades will be Intel only which means older non-intel 
hardware will be forever limited to Leopard. Of course the intel 
conversion happened in 2006 so there will be fewer and fewer G3/G4/G5 
boxes floating around.

CB

Mike Reiser wrote:
> Basically if you want good quality computers, you'll have to pay a 
> little more for them.  My only concern is with the high unemployment 
> rate in the blind community, it's hard enough for a blind person to get 
> a computer in general let alone the high priced screen readers.  
> Hopefully those folks will be able to afford the mac.  I'm not sure what 
> can be done about this but I'm just expressing a concern.  We all know 
> the reasons why one should get a mac, but it just might be out of reach 
> for some people.  I'd like to see that change without hardware quality 
> suffering if that can be done.
>
> Mike
>
> >
>   

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Re: macbook pro questions

[Mike Reiser]

Basically if you want good quality computers, you'll have to pay a 
little more for them.  My only concern is with the high unemployment 
rate in the blind community, it's hard enough for a blind person to get 
a computer in general let alone the high priced screen readers.  
Hopefully those folks will be able to afford the mac.  I'm not sure what 
can be done about this but I'm just expressing a concern.  We all know 
the reasons why one should get a mac, but it just might be out of reach 
for some people.  I'd like to see that change without hardware quality 
suffering if that can be done.

Mike

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Re: does reading on the mac take two hands?

[Scott Bresnahan]

Hi,

In addition to Ester's excellent recommendations, there's a system 
extension called USB Overdrive that will allow you to set keyboard 
actions for USB key presses on controllers and mice.  Although I 
don't know what the Braille devices appear as to the USB bus, it may 
be possible that USB Overdrive will recognize this and you could 
customize the arrow keys you mentioned.  I have a nice CH Products 
Throttle Pro left over from flight simulator days that can handle a 
lot of VO navigation.  Although, a simple cheap USB game pad would 
work as well.

USB Overdrive is free to try and available at versiontracker, or most 
any Mac download site.


Best,
Scott



Hi Anouk,

Although you use the VoiceOver keys (Control and Option) for 
navigation, you can lock these keys on with VO-semi-colon 
(Control-Option-Semi-colon).  Then any commands you issue assume that 
the VoiceOver keys (Control and Option) are engaged until your press 
semi-colon again.  Many people lock their VoiceOver keys while 
reading long pages.

Another alternative is to use NumPad Commander (with Leopard).  This 
is a functionality that uses the numeric keypad to pre-program 
shortcuts for the most common VoiceOver commands.  You need to use 
either a full keyboard, an older Mac laptop with embedded numeric 
keypad, or a current Mac laptop with either attached numeric keypad 
or keyboard with numeric keypad in order to use NumPad Commander. 
 Or, as I've just posted, you may be able to use the free NumberKey 
app on an iPhone to use your iPhone as a numeric keypad that works 
with NumPad Commander shortcuts.  You can customize NumPad Commander 
with your own shortcut definitions as well as using their standard 
set.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Esther

On Jul 17, 2009, at 03:44, william lomas wrote:

you have to use control option and arrow keys, to navigate around

On 17 Jul 2009, at 14:31, a radix wrote:

Hello everyone, ok this may sem elike a strange question but I read 
that, if you want to navigate through a window to review it, or a 
document for example you need to use the voice key (which is either 
command or control if i got that right)+ arrow down or up, but would 
tha tnot require both hand and is there a way to do it single 
handedly. I use braille all the time and this would make it a lot 
slower for me to read stuff, or will maybe the arrow keys on my 
braille display be able to simulate this, i Wonder.
Greetings, Anouk,








-- 
--Scott

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Re: introduction/noob questions(longish)

[Chris Blouch]

To clarify on a couple of your questions:

2.
Networking stuff is pretty standardized now days so your Mac will play 
well on most any wireless or wired network.

3.
Some printers and scanners are well supported and some are not. Depends 
on the model.

4.
Yes, Voiceover can be activated after booting off the OSX installer DVD. 
In other words, you can do a from the ground up wipe and reinstall 
without sighted assistance. I suspect that was the gist of your question 
and not so much about how to upgrade the hard drive.

6.
OSX is unix underneath but Apple's GUI and frameworks running on top. So 
while ORCA could be ported to the mac it would be a substantial bit of
work to get it hooked into all the Apple stuff. If there wasn't a good 
screen reader built-in somebody might undertake the effort but it's 
probably not worth it. Diehard unix folks port all kinds of stuff to the 
mac. MacPorts has around 6000 packages in its library so if you're into 
that kind of thing take a poke at macports.org.

While you didn't ask, note that all macs made since 2006 run on Intel 
processors so there is a thriving industry in virtual machines for the 
Mac. In other words you can either do a multi-boot setup for Windows/Mac 
or run Windows in a window on your mac. Turns out the Mac actually is 
one of the faster (some say the fastest) windows laptop on the market. 
Most folks seem to like the VMWare Fusion route which puts Windows(or 
linux or whatever) in a window which works fairly well. It makes for a 
nice 'safety net' as you get more comfortable on the Mac.

CB

a radix wrote:
> Hello, I am very new to apple in general (although I did use an ipod 
> shuffle and a rockboxed 5.5g imod i nthe past). I am a 24-year old 
> blind law student from the Netherlands and have been using computers 
> from a very young age mostly with dos, windows and sometimes ubuntu. 
> Recently I became interested in macbook pro because I am an audiophile 
> and the macbooks are one of the few powerful laptops I know that have 
> optical audio output. But of course I was also interested in trying os 
> x since I had read the voicover page (although not the manual).
> I went to a local apple store yesterda and was rather disppointed that 
> I could not seem to use things intuitively as I had thought so I 
> mailed apple accessibility who pointed me to the manual and this page. 
> Aside from the fact that I thought apple voicover would not be usable 
> (and so neither os x) by a blind person right out of the box (I am 
> rather independand and besides no one in my vicinity knows anything 
> about apple) I was concerned that the screenreader was not made by a 
> professional screenreader manufacturer and was built-in into os x 
> (after all narrator is not that great although it is functional) I was 
> also concerned by the lack of scriptability or map files to make 
> unaccessible applications accessible. In short I thought it would be a 
> second Narrator. Also despite my googling I could not finda user 
> community for vo, no one in nl seems to use it.
> So I will be reading the manual asap but a few quick questions:
> 1. does omnipage pro work on the mac/is it accessible?
> 2. I guess it would be able to use my linksys route ron the mac?
> 3. hp scanners/printers, are they supported?
> 4. Is it possible to install mac os x (or reinstall it sinc eI guess 
> it always comes preinstalled but you might want to install a bigger hd 
> for example) as a blind person? (this is possible with both ubuntu and 
> windows xp).
> 5. How is braille support with voiceover? I dont mean the displays 
> themselves i know mine will work but the amount of details shown 
> versus spech. I am a die-hard braille user.
> 6. Since os x is unix based, I wonder if ORCA (the screenreader for 
> linux, although it work sunder gnome) will ever be ported?
> Well, I guess that is it for now, although I am sure I will think 
> about more soon.
> Thanks in advance,
> Greetings, Anouk,
>
> >

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Re: iTunes songs for .69 was Re: NLS digital books and future versions of iTunes,iPod, iPhone?

[Chris Blouch]

That's what I noticed. I poked through tons of 80s music and didn't find 
a single 69c track.

CB

Jenny Kennedy (Howard) wrote:
> wow,
> You've found stuff for 69 cents? Where? What was it? All the stuff  
> I've come upon is 99 or 1.29 the more expensive stuff seems to be  
> whatever was/is popular.  Bought a song by Garbage that is way over 10  
> years old and it was 1.29 and several new but not as popular stuff  
> that was just 99 but have never ever come acrross any 69 cents. Even  
> the songs that are crap seem to be 99.
> *smile*
> Best Wishes
> Jenny Kennedy (Howard)
> blueskyes9112...@gmail.com
> Olathe, Kansas USA
>
> Join me on FaceBook:
> Personal Profile - www.facebook.com/blueskyes
> And feel free to join "The Blind Parents of FaceBook" group.  Search  
> for it in groups or contact me for details.
>
> Follow me via twitter using the username: ben_folds_fan
>
>
> >
>   

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Re: Buying from Amazon

[Scott Bresnahan]

Hi,

I've bought most of my Macs from Amazon.. No sales tax and often 
cheaper than Apple even with a student or corporate discount once tax 
is factored in.  Amazon also has .mac and applecare savings too. 
Frankly, not sure why anyone would buy from Apple ever, unless you 
want to engrave your iPod with some lame StarTrek: OS quote. ;)

--Scott



>Hi everyone,
>
>I've been  looking on Amazon and the MacBook is cheaper on there. Has anyone
>bought there MacBook from anywhere other than Apple store or an authorized
>reseller and would they recommend getting it from Amazon?
>
>Thank you
>
>James
>
>
>
-- 
--Scott

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Re: best twitter client

[Dan Eickmeier]

Hi Will, I'd say Syrinx would be the best.  I've been using it for  
quite a while , and love it

On Jul 17, 2009, at 9:11 AM, william lomas wrote:

>
>   hi what is the best twitter client people are using on the mac?
>
>
> >


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Re: does reading on the mac take two hands?

[kaare dehard]

there is a work around here, and this is purely from the use of voice  
perspective. if you first press ctrl-option then ; you can then use  
the arrow keys on the keyboard to move vo around one-handedly . When  
done don't forget to press ctrl-option-; again to return the behavior  
to normal for other tasks.
On 17-Jul-09, at 9:44 AM, william lomas wrote:

> you have to use control option and arrow keys, to navigate around
>
> On 17 Jul 2009, at 14:31, a radix wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone, ok this may sem elike a strange question but I read  
>> that, if you want to navigate through a window to review it, or a  
>> document for example you need to use the voice key (which is either  
>> command or control if i got that right)+ arrow down or up, but  
>> would tha tnot require both hand and is there a way to do it single  
>> handedly. I use braille all the time and this would make it a lot  
>> slower for me to read stuff, or will maybe the arrow keys on my  
>> braille display be able to simulate this, i Wonder.
>> Greetings, Anouk,
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> >


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Re: does reading on the mac take two hands?

[a radix]

Hi, oh so this is kind of like virtual focus in hal (i know few people use it), 
very nice! I think i remember though from my brief visit to the apple store 
that it is indeed possible to map commands on the braill edisplay. I will have 
to visit there again first to correct the image they might have gotten from 
voicover and second to try it all out after I have finished reading the manual.
Greetings, Anouk,
  - Original Message - 
  From: kaare dehard 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:17 PM
  Subject: Re: does reading on the mac take two hands?


  there is a work around here, and this is purely from the use of voice 
perspective. if you first press ctrl-option then ; you can then use the arrow 
keys on the keyboard to move vo around one-handedly . When done don't forget to 
press ctrl-option-; again to return the behavior to normal for other tasks.

  On 17-Jul-09, at 9:44 AM, william lomas wrote:


you have to use control option and arrow keys, to navigate around


On 17 Jul 2009, at 14:31, a radix wrote:


  Hello everyone, ok this may sem elike a strange question but I read that, 
if you want to navigate through a window to review it, or a document for 
example you need to use the voice key (which is either command or control if i 
got that right)+ arrow down or up, but would tha tnot require both hand and is 
there a way to do it single handedly. I use braille all the time and this would 
make it a lot slower for me to read stuff, or will maybe the arrow keys on my 
braille display be able to simulate this, i Wonder.
  Greetings, Anouk,













  



--



  Geen virus gevonden in het binnenkomende-bericht.
  Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com 
  Versie: 8.5.387 / Virusdatabase: 270.13.18/2243 - datum van uitgifte: 
07/17/09 06:08:00

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Re: best twitter client

[william lomas]

is it as easy to use as say twitteriffic
what makes it different to that

On 17 Jul 2009, at 18:15, Dan Eickmeier wrote:

>
> Hi Will, I'd say Syrinx would be the best.  I've been using it for
> quite a while , and love it
>
> On Jul 17, 2009, at 9:11 AM, william lomas wrote:
>
>>
>>  hi what is the best twitter client people are using on the mac?
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Are the MacBook Pros 13 in heat keepers?

[James & Nash]

Hi folks,

I have read some reviews that say that the MBPs get quite hot which is to e 
expected - but some say that they are too hot to use if not on a desk. Howe 
do users fel about this? Do many of you use them on your knees?

Thank you

James 


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Re: Are the MacBook Pros 13 in heat keepers?

[Chris Polk]

the only time my new macbook pro gets hot is when i run windows either  
in fusion or bootcamp.
other than that, it stays really cool

On Jul 17, 2009, at 10:41 AM, James & Nash wrote:

>
> Hi folks,
>
> I have read some reviews that say that the MBPs get quite hot which  
> is to e
> expected - but some say that they are too hot to use if not on a  
> desk. Howe
> do users fel about this? Do many of you use them on your knees?
>
> Thank you
>
> James
>
>
> >


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Re: Are the MacBook Pros 13 in heat keepers?

[Michael Babcock]

hi;
I just got my 13 inch MBP yesterday, and so far it hasn't gotten to  
hot. It got a little hot when i was transfering 13gb of movies from my  
old Macbook to my Macbook Pro, but aside from that, no, it hasn't  
gotten to hot, no.
mike

On Jul 17, 2009, at 9:41 AM, James & Nash wrote:

>
> Hi folks,
>
> I have read some reviews that say that the MBPs get quite hot which  
> is to e
> expected - but some say that they are too hot to use if not on a  
> desk. Howe
> do users fel about this? Do many of you use them on your knees?
>
> Thank you
>
> James
>
>
> >


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Re: Are the MacBook Pros 13 in heat keepers?

[James & Nash]

Fair enough. That's good to know. Well I think I shall buy my Mac from 
Amazon and I recommend it to others too.
- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Babcock" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: Are the MacBook Pros 13 in heat keepers?


>
> hi;
> I just got my 13 inch MBP yesterday, and so far it hasn't gotten to
> hot. It got a little hot when i was transfering 13gb of movies from my
> old Macbook to my Macbook Pro, but aside from that, no, it hasn't
> gotten to hot, no.
> mike
>
> On Jul 17, 2009, at 9:41 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I have read some reviews that say that the MBPs get quite hot which
>> is to e
>> expected - but some say that they are too hot to use if not on a
>> desk. Howe
>> do users fel about this? Do many of you use them on your knees?
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> James
>>
>>
>> >
>
>
> > 


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Re: introduction/noob questions(longish)

[a radix]

Thanks for all the information, folks, it really helps. I already found out 
omnipage will work on the mac which is GREAT since I use it to scan my books 
for school (i need a high quality ocr interface for that because I dont want to 
edit anything, just scan, paste it all in one file and go). Yes windows in 
vmware or even ubuntu would be a good thing i guess. I amnot sure how much I 
would trust multiboot but if it works well in vmware and doesnt slow os x I 
might try that.
Thanks again!
Greetings, Anouk,
  - Original Message - 
  From: Chris Blouch 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 5:00 PM
  Subject: Re: introduction/noob questions(longish)


  To clarify on a couple of your questions:

  2.
  Networking stuff is pretty standardized now days so your Mac will play well 
on most any wireless or wired network.

  3.
  Some printers and scanners are well supported and some are not. Depends on 
the model.

  4.
  Yes, Voiceover can be activated after booting off the OSX installer DVD. In 
other words, you can do a from the ground up wipe and reinstall without sighted 
assistance. I suspect that was the gist of your question and not so much about 
how to upgrade the hard drive.

  6.
  OSX is unix underneath but Apple's GUI and frameworks running on top. So 
while ORCA could be ported to the mac it would be a substantial bit of
  work to get it hooked into all the Apple stuff. If there wasn't a good screen 
reader built-in somebody might undertake the effort but it's probably not worth 
it. Diehard unix folks port all kinds of stuff to the mac. MacPorts has around 
6000 packages in its library so if you're into that kind of thing take a poke 
at macports.org.

  While you didn't ask, note that all macs made since 2006 run on Intel 
processors so there is a thriving industry in virtual machines for the Mac. In 
other words you can either do a multi-boot setup for Windows/Mac or run Windows 
in a window on your mac. Turns out the Mac actually is one of the faster (some 
say the fastest) windows laptop on the market. Most folks seem to like the 
VMWare Fusion route which puts Windows(or linux or whatever) in a window which 
works fairly well. It makes for a nice 'safety net' as you get more comfortable 
on the Mac.

  CB

  a radix wrote: 
Hello, I am very new to apple in general (although I did use an ipod 
shuffle and a rockboxed 5.5g imod i nthe past). I am a 24-year old blind law 
student from the Netherlands and have been using computers from a very young 
age mostly with dos, windows and sometimes ubuntu. Recently I became interested 
in macbook pro because I am an audiophile and the macbooks are one of the few 
powerful laptops I know that have optical audio output. But of course I was 
also interested in trying os x since I had read the voicover page (although not 
the manual).
I went to a local apple store yesterda and was rather disppointed that I 
could not seem to use things intuitively as I had thought so I mailed apple 
accessibility who pointed me to the manual and this page. Aside from the fact 
that I thought apple voicover would not be usable (and so neither os x) by a 
blind person right out of the box (I am rather independand and besides no one 
in my vicinity knows anything about apple) I was concerned that the 
screenreader was not made by a professional screenreader manufacturer and was 
built-in into os x (after all narrator is not that great although it is 
functional) I was also concerned by the lack of scriptability or map files to 
make unaccessible applications accessible. In short I thought it would be a 
second Narrator. Also despite my googling I could not finda user community for 
vo, no one in nl seems to use it.
So I will be reading the manual asap but a few quick questions:
1. does omnipage pro work on the mac/is it accessible?
2. I guess it would be able to use my linksys route ron the mac?
3. hp scanners/printers, are they supported?
4. Is it possible to install mac os x (or reinstall it sinc eI guess it 
always comes preinstalled but you might want to install a bigger hd for 
example) as a blind person? (this is possible with both ubuntu and windows xp).
5. How is braille support with voiceover? I dont mean the displays 
themselves i know mine will work but the amount of details shown versus spech. 
I am a die-hard braille user. 
6. Since os x is unix based, I wonder if ORCA (the screenreader for linux, 
although it work sunder gnome) will ever be ported?
Well, I guess that is it for now, although I am sure I will think about 
more soon.
Thanks in advance,
Greetings, Anouk,




  



--



  Geen virus gevonden in het binnenkomende-bericht.
  Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com 
  Versie: 8.5.387 / Virusdatabase: 270.13.18/2243 - datum van uitgifte: 
07/17/09 06:08:00

--~--~-~--~~~

Re: macbook pro questions

[a radix]

Hello, I think if you buy your laptop from the apple store at least you can 
do a loan program (not tha tI recommend taking a loan in these times) but 
you dont have to pay it all at once. I would not mind the prices getting 
lower of course either! And, in these economic time sI think macs might be 
for sale second hand especially if people for som ereason cant afford 
it/dont really need it (i already saw one or two of the new macbook pros for 
sale second hand this way) so you might be able to pick one up that way.
Greetings, Anouk,
- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Reiser" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: macbook pro questions


>
> Basically if you want good quality computers, you'll have to pay a
> little more for them.  My only concern is with the high unemployment
> rate in the blind community, it's hard enough for a blind person to get
> a computer in general let alone the high priced screen readers.
> Hopefully those folks will be able to afford the mac.  I'm not sure what
> can be done about this but I'm just expressing a concern.  We all know
> the reasons why one should get a mac, but it just might be out of reach
> for some people.  I'd like to see that change without hardware quality
> suffering if that can be done.
>
> Mike
>
> >






Geen virus gevonden in het binnenkomende-bericht.
Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com
Versie: 8.5.387 / Virusdatabase: 270.13.18/2243 - datum van uitgifte: 
07/17/09 06:08:00


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Re: Are the MacBook Pros 13 in heat keepers?

[Michael Babcock]

hi;
How much is it on amazon?
mike
On Jul 17, 2009, at 9:56 AM, James & Nash wrote:

>
> Fair enough. That's good to know. Well I think I shall buy my Mac from
> Amazon and I recommend it to others too.
> - Original Message -
> From: "Michael Babcock" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 6:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Are the MacBook Pros 13 in heat keepers?
>
>
>>
>> hi;
>> I just got my 13 inch MBP yesterday, and so far it hasn't gotten to
>> hot. It got a little hot when i was transfering 13gb of movies from  
>> my
>> old Macbook to my Macbook Pro, but aside from that, no, it hasn't
>> gotten to hot, no.
>> mike
>>
>> On Jul 17, 2009, at 9:41 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> I have read some reviews that say that the MBPs get quite hot which
>>> is to e
>>> expected - but some say that they are too hot to use if not on a
>>> desk. Howe
>>> do users fel about this? Do many of you use them on your knees?
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: does reading on the mac take two hands?

[a radix]

Hello, Thanks a lot for all the information, Esther. Are there any new macbook 
laptops with a numeric keypad? I have actually never used a laptop that has 
one, but from your post I gathe ryou can also use numeric commander to put 
shortcuts on other keys then the numeric keys if they are not available? I 
think a laptop with a numeric keypad would be nice though, and I am still 
hoping and thinking I could put shortcuts on my braille display as well.
Thanks again,
Greetings, Anouk,
  - Original Message - 
  From: Esther 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 4:02 PM
  Subject: Re: does reading on the mac take two hands?


  Hi Anouk,


  Although you use the VoiceOver keys (Control and Option) for navigation, you 
can lock these keys on with VO-semi-colon (Control-Option-Semi-colon).  Then 
any commands you issue assume that the VoiceOver keys (Control and Option) are 
engaged until your press semi-colon again.  Many people lock their VoiceOver 
keys while reading long pages.


  Another alternative is to use NumPad Commander (with Leopard).  This is a 
functionality that uses the numeric keypad to pre-program shortcuts for the 
most common VoiceOver commands.  You need to use either a full keyboard, an 
older Mac laptop with embedded numeric keypad, or a current Mac laptop with 
either attached numeric keypad or keyboard with numeric keypad in order to use 
NumPad Commander.  Or, as I've just posted, you may be able to use the free 
NumberKey app on an iPhone to use your iPhone as a numeric keypad that works 
with NumPad Commander shortcuts.  You can customize NumPad Commander with your 
own shortcut definitions as well as using their standard set.


  Hope this helps.


  Cheers,


  Esther

  On Jul 17, 2009, at 03:44, william lomas wrote:


you have to use control option and arrow keys, to navigate around


On 17 Jul 2009, at 14:31, a radix wrote:


  Hello everyone, ok this may sem elike a strange question but I read that, 
if you want to navigate through a window to review it, or a document for 
example you need to use the voice key (which is either command or control if i 
got that right)+ arrow down or up, but would tha tnot require both hand and is 
there a way to do it single handedly. I use braille all the time and this would 
make it a lot slower for me to read stuff, or will maybe the arrow keys on my 
braille display be able to simulate this, i Wonder.
  Greetings, Anouk,









  



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Re: Drunk with power. or buying from iTunes store all on my own was Re: iTunes songs for .69 was Re: NLS digital books and future versions of iTunes,iPod, iPhone?

[patrickneazer]

Hello Jenny and all:

I know I am late to the party on commenting on this one ...

No, it won't go away or wear off ... LOL ... it will subside for a  
second and then ... you will be asked to purchase something for  
someone who is hard to shop for ... then you might be off again ... lol

Or, wait until the beetles music comes to Itunes ... do not know if  
you are a fan though getting caught up in the buzz is truly amazing.

Welcome to searching the bins all you want for as long as you want and  
purchasing all you can afford (grin).

Enjoy and keep it up.
On Jul 16, 2009, at 6:50 PM, Jenny Kennedy (Howard) wrote:

>
> Hi Scott,
> LOL That would be cool. *smile*
> I spend way way way way way too much money at iTunes . Well Not to the
> point my family has to go without...  But a majority of all my fun
> money goes to iTunes.
> I don't know I guess I'm drunk with power.
> I've never been able to browse music or movies or TV shows on my own
> before so never did it.
> It was frustrating to have to know exactly what I wanted when often
> times I hade no idea and people didn't want to stand around reading
> off every album by the likes of Simon and Garfunkel and Ben Folds and
> whoever I was in the mood for or go through every movie/TV show in a
> given catagory.
> Now that I can do this I sometimes go a little nuts. *smile*
> eventually the "WOW" factor will go away and I'll give it no more
> thought than I give ordering an audible book or NLS book or whatever
> but damn it's great and besides that there are some musical likes I
> will not admit to another soul. Okay I admitted Simon and Garfunkel
> but that is all you are getting from the likes of me! LOL
> Best Wishes
> Jenny Kennedy (Howard)
> blueskyes9112...@gmail.com
> Olathe, Kansas USA
>
> Join me on FaceBook:
> Personal Profile - www.facebook.com/blueskyes
> And feel free to join "The Blind Parents of FaceBook" group.  Search
> for it in groups or contact me for details.
>
> Follow me via twitter using the username: ben_folds_fan
>
>
> >

Take good care and I wish you enough.

Love

Me


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Re: Are the MacBook Pros 13 in heat keepers?

[May and Wynter]

Now why does it get hot then,, is it because windows uses more of something

Also, is bootcamp easy to use to put windows on the mac machine

May off to Edmonton Alberta on the 25th.
Am I ready to see some people there?
- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Polk" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: Are the MacBook Pros 13 in heat keepers?


>
> the only time my new macbook pro gets hot is when i run windows either
> in fusion or bootcamp.
> other than that, it stays really cool
>
> On Jul 17, 2009, at 10:41 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I have read some reviews that say that the MBPs get quite hot which
>> is to e
>> expected - but some say that they are too hot to use if not on a
>> desk. Howe
>> do users fel about this? Do many of you use them on your knees?
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> James
>>
>>
>> >
>
>
> > 


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Re: does reading on the mac take two hands?

[a radix]

Hey Erik, nice to hear from you again (I remember you from the audiobook 
library) it is GREAT to hear that it is actually possible to use the mac with 
braille exclusively since this is wha tI normally always do with windows, and 
although I really dig the alex voice (it is REALLY natural sounding imo) i 
guess I still would be more productive with just braille only.
Although I bet semicolumn would work too, i really appreciate that there are so 
many ways of doing stuff with vo it really gives you a lot of flexibility that 
I am not used to at all with Hal.
Greetings, Anouk,
  - Original Message - 
  From: erik burggraaf 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 3:55 PM
  Subject: Re: does reading on the mac take two hands?


  Hi, you will get best joy out of your braille display, since a button on your 
display will be set to scroll right and another to scroll left.  In many 
instances where reading is required, such as typing a document in text edit, 
the arrow keys do just fine on their own with out needing to use the voice over 
keys.  When you need to use the voice over keys for long periods of reading, 
your best bet is to simply lock the voice over keys with control option 
semicolon.  Once you do that, every press on the keybord will act as if you 
also pressed the voice over keys even though you haven't actually pressed them. 
 Or to think of it another way, the voice over keys will be perminantly pressed 
without you needing to take care of that yourself until you press the semicolon 
to releace them.


  All things being equal though I suspect you will probably turn speech off and 
use braille exclusively if you really like braille.  I have a friend who does 
this and it's sick to watch.  I'd love to be able to do it, but I'm just not 
that good at braille.


  Best,


  erik burggraaf
  A+ sertified technician and user support consultant.
  Phone: 888-255-5194
  Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com


  On 17-Jul-09, at 9:31 AM, a radix wrote:


Hello everyone, ok this may sem elike a strange question but I read that, 
if you want to navigate through a window to review it, or a document for 
example you need to use the voice key (which is either command or control if i 
got that right)+ arrow down or up, but would tha tnot require both hand and is 
there a way to do it single handedly. I use braille all the time and this would 
make it a lot slower for me to read stuff, or will maybe the arrow keys on my 
braille display be able to simulate this, i Wonder.
Greetings, Anouk,







  



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  Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com 
  Versie: 8.5.387 / Virusdatabase: 270.13.18/2243 - datum van uitgifte: 
07/17/09 06:08:00

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compatibility with ms word

[a radix]

Hello, so the question is basically as in my subject, i have to do documents 
for school which they prefer you submit in .doc format because they go through 
a database to prevent fraud, I guess apple is compatible with microsoft word (i 
do understand I might have to get some kind of office suite for that).
Greetings, Anouk,
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mac support/warranty, does it matter where you buy?

[a radix]

Hello everyone,

I wonder if it is advisable to buy a macbook pro from the appl eonline store or 
an apple stor ein general or if it is ok to buy one just anywhere? The apple 
store is not very accessible for me bu tI could order by phone although, of 
course I would like to find the cheapest place to buy one, lol. I guess apple 
gives support no matter where you have bought your laptop, as long as it is, 
for me for example, within th eNetherlands? I also wonder about warranty, is it 
still only one year standard. I find that kind of meager, in europe most costly 
stuff like this has standard 2 years, although to be honest some other laptop 
companies do persist in only giving one year as well. Is it possible to get on 
site warranty or is it pick up and return or maybe even carry in?

Thanks again for all the help,

Greetings, Anouk,

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Re: Drunk with power. or buying from iTunes store all on my own was Re: iTunes songs for .69 was Re: NLS digital books and future versions of iTunes,iPod, iPhone?

[Jenny Kennedy (Howard)]

Oh dear, LOL when the Beetles do finally come to iTunes, please please  
sometime soon, that's just it. I'm going to make Apple, Inc. really  
really rich. *smile*
I love them and have been very frustrated they are not on iTunes.
Really want "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band" album, is perhaps  
my favourite or one of my top favourites. :-)
Okay so this drunkenness with power doesn't go away. Good 'cuz y'know  
I LOVE IT!


Best Wishes
Jenny Kennedy (Howard)
blueskyes9112...@gmail.com
Olathe, Kansas USA

Join me on FaceBook:
Personal Profile - www.facebook.com/blueskyes
And feel free to join "The Blind Parents of FaceBook" group.  Search  
for it in groups or contact me for details.

Follow me via twitter using the username: ben_folds_fan


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Re: Are the MacBook Pros 13 in heat keepers?

[Scott Howell]

James I have not had any issues with my MBP getting to hot. Like any  
machine, they get warm and the more demand on the processor, the  
warmer they will get. My MBP spends nearly all of its time on my desk  
and is running about 15 hours a day.

On Jul 17, 2009, at 1:41 PM, James & Nash wrote:

>
> Hi folks,
>
> I have read some reviews that say that the MBPs get quite hot which  
> is to e
> expected - but some say that they are too hot to use if not on a  
> desk. Howe
> do users fel about this? Do many of you use them on your knees?
>
> Thank you
>
> James
>
>
> >


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Re: Are the MacBook Pros 13 in heat keepers?

[James & Nash]

Hi,

The MacBook Pro 13 in 2.26 GHZ is £882.97
- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Babcock" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: Are the MacBook Pros 13 in heat keepers?


>
> hi;
> How much is it on amazon?
> mike
> On Jul 17, 2009, at 9:56 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>
>>
>> Fair enough. That's good to know. Well I think I shall buy my Mac from
>> Amazon and I recommend it to others too.
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Michael Babcock" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 6:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: Are the MacBook Pros 13 in heat keepers?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> hi;
>>> I just got my 13 inch MBP yesterday, and so far it hasn't gotten to
>>> hot. It got a little hot when i was transfering 13gb of movies from
>>> my
>>> old Macbook to my Macbook Pro, but aside from that, no, it hasn't
>>> gotten to hot, no.
>>> mike
>>>
>>> On Jul 17, 2009, at 9:41 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>>>

 Hi folks,

 I have read some reviews that say that the MBPs get quite hot which
 is to e
 expected - but some say that they are too hot to use if not on a
 desk. Howe
 do users fel about this? Do many of you use them on your knees?

 Thank you

 James


>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>> >
>
>
> > 


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Re: Are the MacBook Pros 13 in heat keepers?

[James & Nash]

I see Scott. What is the new battery like have you ha chance to test it yet. 
Do you run it on battery every day? How often do you charge it?

Do Apple still use the Poly Lithomer batteries that do not get damaged if 
you keep the laptop on the power supply.


Thanks

James
- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Howell" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: Are the MacBook Pros 13 in heat keepers?


>
> James I have not had any issues with my MBP getting to hot. Like any
> machine, they get warm and the more demand on the processor, the
> warmer they will get. My MBP spends nearly all of its time on my desk
> and is running about 15 hours a day.
>
> On Jul 17, 2009, at 1:41 PM, James & Nash wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I have read some reviews that say that the MBPs get quite hot which
>> is to e
>> expected - but some say that they are too hot to use if not on a
>> desk. Howe
>> do users fel about this? Do many of you use them on your knees?
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> James
>>
>>
>> >
>
>
> > 


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Re: compatibility with ms word

[James & Nash]

Hi Anouk

Apple's word processing software can open as well as read and write doc files 
as can third party word processors such as Nisus Writer Espress and Pro and I 
think Mariner Write.

Take care 

James 
  - Original Message - 
  From: a radix 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:34 PM
  Subject: compatibility with ms word


  Hello, so the question is basically as in my subject, i have to do documents 
for school which they prefer you submit in .doc format because they go through 
a database to prevent fraud, I guess apple is compatible with microsoft word (i 
do understand I might have to get some kind of office suite for that).
  Greetings, Anouk,

  

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Re: introduction/noob questions(longish)

[James & Nash]

Hi Anouk,

I have used Omnipage on Mac OS X and although I could get around it with some 
help from a friend on this lsit, it was not really VO friendly. Also, I do not 
think it has been updated recently. 

Take care 

James 
  - Original Message - 
  From: a radix 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:04 PM
  Subject: Re: introduction/noob questions(longish)


  Thanks for all the information, folks, it really helps. I already found out 
omnipage will work on the mac which is GREAT since I use it to scan my books 
for school (i need a high quality ocr interface for that because I dont want to 
edit anything, just scan, paste it all in one file and go). Yes windows in 
vmware or even ubuntu would be a good thing i guess. I amnot sure how much I 
would trust multiboot but if it works well in vmware and doesnt slow os x I 
might try that.
  Thanks again!
  Greetings, Anouk,
- Original Message - 
From: Chris Blouch 
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: introduction/noob questions(longish)


To clarify on a couple of your questions:

2.
Networking stuff is pretty standardized now days so your Mac will play well 
on most any wireless or wired network.

3.
Some printers and scanners are well supported and some are not. Depends on 
the model.

4.
Yes, Voiceover can be activated after booting off the OSX installer DVD. In 
other words, you can do a from the ground up wipe and reinstall without sighted 
assistance. I suspect that was the gist of your question and not so much about 
how to upgrade the hard drive.

6.
OSX is unix underneath but Apple's GUI and frameworks running on top. So 
while ORCA could be ported to the mac it would be a substantial bit of
work to get it hooked into all the Apple stuff. If there wasn't a good 
screen reader built-in somebody might undertake the effort but it's probably 
not worth it. Diehard unix folks port all kinds of stuff to the mac. MacPorts 
has around 6000 packages in its library so if you're into that kind of thing 
take a poke at macports.org.

While you didn't ask, note that all macs made since 2006 run on Intel 
processors so there is a thriving industry in virtual machines for the Mac. In 
other words you can either do a multi-boot setup for Windows/Mac or run Windows 
in a window on your mac. Turns out the Mac actually is one of the faster (some 
say the fastest) windows laptop on the market. Most folks seem to like the 
VMWare Fusion route which puts Windows(or linux or whatever) in a window which 
works fairly well. It makes for a nice 'safety net' as you get more comfortable 
on the Mac.

CB

a radix wrote: 
  Hello, I am very new to apple in general (although I did use an ipod 
shuffle and a rockboxed 5.5g imod i nthe past). I am a 24-year old blind law 
student from the Netherlands and have been using computers from a very young 
age mostly with dos, windows and sometimes ubuntu. Recently I became interested 
in macbook pro because I am an audiophile and the macbooks are one of the few 
powerful laptops I know that have optical audio output. But of course I was 
also interested in trying os x since I had read the voicover page (although not 
the manual).
  I went to a local apple store yesterda and was rather disppointed that I 
could not seem to use things intuitively as I had thought so I mailed apple 
accessibility who pointed me to the manual and this page. Aside from the fact 
that I thought apple voicover would not be usable (and so neither os x) by a 
blind person right out of the box (I am rather independand and besides no one 
in my vicinity knows anything about apple) I was concerned that the 
screenreader was not made by a professional screenreader manufacturer and was 
built-in into os x (after all narrator is not that great although it is 
functional) I was also concerned by the lack of scriptability or map files to 
make unaccessible applications accessible. In short I thought it would be a 
second Narrator. Also despite my googling I could not finda user community for 
vo, no one in nl seems to use it.
  So I will be reading the manual asap but a few quick questions:
  1. does omnipage pro work on the mac/is it accessible?
  2. I guess it would be able to use my linksys route ron the mac?
  3. hp scanners/printers, are they supported?
  4. Is it possible to install mac os x (or reinstall it sinc eI guess it 
always comes preinstalled but you might want to install a bigger hd for 
example) as a blind person? (this is possible with both ubuntu and windows xp).
  5. How is braille support with voiceover? I dont mean the displays 
themselves i know mine will work but the amount of details shown versus spech. 
I am a die-hard braille user. 
  6. Since os x is unix based, I wonder if ORCA (the screenreader for 
linux, although it work sunder gnome) 

Re: macbook pro questions

[James & Nash]

Hi Anouk,

Thanks for the suggestion. However, Apple's payment plan here in the UK is 
apalling. As well as obviously paying them for the product, you are paying 
quite a bit of interest on top which comes to over 1000 GBP.

Take care

James
- Original Message - 
From: "a radix" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: macbook pro questions


>
> Hello, I think if you buy your laptop from the apple store at least you 
> can
> do a loan program (not tha tI recommend taking a loan in these times) but
> you dont have to pay it all at once. I would not mind the prices getting
> lower of course either! And, in these economic time sI think macs might be
> for sale second hand especially if people for som ereason cant afford
> it/dont really need it (i already saw one or two of the new macbook pros 
> for
> sale second hand this way) so you might be able to pick one up that way.
> Greetings, Anouk,
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Mike Reiser" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 4:17 PM
> Subject: Re: macbook pro questions
>
>
>>
>> Basically if you want good quality computers, you'll have to pay a
>> little more for them.  My only concern is with the high unemployment
>> rate in the blind community, it's hard enough for a blind person to get
>> a computer in general let alone the high priced screen readers.
>> Hopefully those folks will be able to afford the mac.  I'm not sure what
>> can be done about this but I'm just expressing a concern.  We all know
>> the reasons why one should get a mac, but it just might be out of reach
>> for some people.  I'd like to see that change without hardware quality
>> suffering if that can be done.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> >
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Geen virus gevonden in het binnenkomende-bericht.
> Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com
> Versie: 8.5.387 / Virusdatabase: 270.13.18/2243 - datum van uitgifte:
> 07/17/09 06:08:00
>
>
> > 


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Re: Are the MacBook Pros 13 in heat keepers?

[Scott Howell]

James, I have gotten over five hours before I put it on the charger.  
Now keep in mind I did not run it down, but I figure I could have gone  
another hour or two without any difficulty. I leave mine on the  
charger most the time since cycling the batteries is unnecessary and I  
have a Dell machine my employer provided that I have done this with  
for over two years and no issues with its batteries either. Now I'll  
have to work at running this battery down and see how far she'll go,  
but for most the tasks I am doing, if I get six hours, I'd be happy,  
if I get seven, I'd be very pleased and I honestly think I'd get the  
seven, just seems I never have enough time to push it beyond five hours.

On Jul 17, 2009, at 3:53 PM, James & Nash wrote:

>
> I see Scott. What is the new battery like have you ha chance to test  
> it yet.
> Do you run it on battery every day? How often do you charge it?
>
> Do Apple still use the Poly Lithomer batteries that do not get  
> damaged if
> you keep the laptop on the power supply.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> James
> - Original Message -
> From: "Scott Howell" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 8:24 PM
> Subject: Re: Are the MacBook Pros 13 in heat keepers?
>
>
>>
>> James I have not had any issues with my MBP getting to hot. Like any
>> machine, they get warm and the more demand on the processor, the
>> warmer they will get. My MBP spends nearly all of its time on my desk
>> and is running about 15 hours a day.
>>
>> On Jul 17, 2009, at 1:41 PM, James & Nash wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> I have read some reviews that say that the MBPs get quite hot which
>>> is to e
>>> expected - but some say that they are too hot to use if not on a
>>> desk. Howe
>>> do users fel about this? Do many of you use them on your knees?
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Apple plans to blick rival smart phones

[James & Nash]

Hi everyone, 

>From the BBC website:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8155795.stm

Take care 

james 

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Re: Drunk with power. or buying from iTunes store all on my own was Re: iTunes songs for .69 was Re: NLS digital books and future versions of iTunes,iPod, iPhone?

[patrickneazer]

Hello Jenny and all:

Glad I struck a friendly nerve (wink). Yep, it never goes away.

I must confess that I am not the biggest consumer of movies. Most of  
the world believes that is because I cannot see ... LOL ... it just is  
because I do not like many movies. I am even in the minority in the VI  
community when it comes to movies ... LOL

However, shhh ... I must confess that I have purchased (rented) a  
movie or two from the itunes store just to see if they play and how  
they play on the iphone. Main reason ... I could look around through  
the many many many many many titles in the Itunes store for as long as  
I want. Sound familiar ... LOL

So, if you think that drunk with power feeling is starting to slip you  
can find a whole new outlet for it ... LOL

Mine is movies ... LOL

Happy shopping and the mac products rocks.
On Jul 17, 2009, at 3:06 PM, Jenny Kennedy (Howard) wrote:

>
> Oh dear, LOL when the Beetles do finally come to iTunes, please please
> sometime soon, that's just it. I'm going to make Apple, Inc. really
> really rich. *smile*
> I love them and have been very frustrated they are not on iTunes.
> Really want "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band" album, is perhaps
> my favourite or one of my top favourites. :-)
> Okay so this drunkenness with power doesn't go away. Good 'cuz y'know
> I LOVE IT!
>
>
> Best Wishes
> Jenny Kennedy (Howard)
> blueskyes9112...@gmail.com
> Olathe, Kansas USA
>
> Join me on FaceBook:
> Personal Profile - www.facebook.com/blueskyes
> And feel free to join "The Blind Parents of FaceBook" group.  Search
> for it in groups or contact me for details.
>
> Follow me via twitter using the username: ben_folds_fan
>
>
> >

Take good care and I wish you enough.

Love

Me


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Re: Are the MacBook Pros 13 in heat keepers?

[Chris Polk]

ya know im not sure why it gets hotter in windows.
i'm guessing that it is using more resources.
it isn't unsafe hot or anything, just a nocible difference.

On Jul 17, 2009, at 11:28 AM, May and Wynter wrote:

>
> Now why does it get hot then,, is it because windows uses more of  
> something
>
> Also, is bootcamp easy to use to put windows on the mac machine
>
> May off to Edmonton Alberta on the 25th.
> Am I ready to see some people there?
> - Original Message -
> From: "Chris Polk" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 10:45 AM
> Subject: Re: Are the MacBook Pros 13 in heat keepers?
>
>
>>
>> the only time my new macbook pro gets hot is when i run windows  
>> either
>> in fusion or bootcamp.
>> other than that, it stays really cool
>>
>> On Jul 17, 2009, at 10:41 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> I have read some reviews that say that the MBPs get quite hot which
>>> is to e
>>> expected - but some say that they are too hot to use if not on a
>>> desk. Howe
>>> do users fel about this? Do many of you use them on your knees?
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: compatibility with ms word

[kaare dehard]

check out open office or ilife 09 depending on your tastes and needs.  
Both will support .doc files. The ms office put out by my heros will  
not work with vo however.
On 17-Jul-09, at 2:34 PM, a radix wrote:

> Hello, so the question is basically as in my subject, i have to do  
> documents for school which they prefer you submit in .doc format  
> because they go through a database to prevent fraud, I guess apple  
> is compatible with microsoft word (i do understand I might have to  
> get some kind of office suite for that).
> Greetings, Anouk,
>
> >


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Re: Apple plans to blick rival smart phones

[Josh de Lioncourt]

I don't want this to go too wildly off topic for this list, as it has  
nothing to do with accessibility, but I do think it is an interesting  
and somewhat important topic. I'll just note that what the article  
fails to consider is that, by allowing third-party devices to continue  
to sync via iTunes, Apple is opening itself up to a whole host of tech  
support query issues. Users will request help for syncing non- 
supported devices, in many cases lying about what device they are  
using to get tech support, and cost APple valuable time and resources  
on wild goose chases.  Regardless of how anyone feels about other  
aspects, the decision is an understandable and logical one. I do  
understand the arguments against it as well, but the picture is not as  
black as Palm wants to portray it.

Josh de Lioncourt
…my other mail provider is an owl…

Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt
Music: http://stage19music.com
Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com
Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com
GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt

On Jul 17, 2009, at 2:03 PM, James & Nash wrote:

>
> Hi everyone,
>
> From the BBC website:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8155795.stm
>
> Take care
>
> james
>
> >


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Re: does reading on the mac take two hands?

[Josh de Lioncourt]

VoiceOver supports assigning Braille display keys to Voiceover  
commands. Also, you do not need to hands to necessarily perform  
VoiceOver functions, as there is a Control-Option lock which causes  
the system to interpret all commands as if they are VO ones.

HTH.


Josh de Lioncourt
…my other mail provider is an owl…

Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt
Music: http://stage19music.com
Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com
Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com
GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt

On Jul 17, 2009, at 11:13 AM, a radix wrote:

> Hello, Thanks a lot for all the information, Esther. Are there any  
> new macbook laptops with a numeric keypad? I have actually never  
> used a laptop that has one, but from your post I gathe ryou can also  
> use numeric commander to put shortcuts on other keys then the  
> numeric keys if they are not available? I think a laptop with a  
> numeric keypad would be nice though, and I am still hoping and  
> thinking I could put shortcuts on my braille display as well.
> Thanks again,
> Greetings, Anouk,
> - Original Message -
> From: Esther
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 4:02 PM
> Subject: Re: does reading on the mac take two hands?
>
> Hi Anouk,
>
> Although you use the VoiceOver keys (Control and Option) for  
> navigation, you can lock these keys on with VO-semi-colon (Control- 
> Option-Semi-colon).  Then any commands you issue assume that the  
> VoiceOver keys (Control and Option) are engaged until your press  
> semi-colon again.  Many people lock their VoiceOver keys while  
> reading long pages.
>
> Another alternative is to use NumPad Commander (with Leopard).  This  
> is a functionality that uses the numeric keypad to pre-program  
> shortcuts for the most common VoiceOver commands.  You need to use  
> either a full keyboard, an older Mac laptop with embedded numeric  
> keypad, or a current Mac laptop with either attached numeric keypad  
> or keyboard with numeric keypad in order to use NumPad Commander.   
> Or, as I've just posted, you may be able to use the free NumberKey  
> app on an iPhone to use your iPhone as a numeric keypad that works  
> with NumPad Commander shortcuts.  You can customize NumPad Commander  
> with your own shortcut definitions as well as using their standard  
> set.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Esther
> On Jul 17, 2009, at 03:44, william lomas wrote:
>
>> you have to use control option and arrow keys, to navigate around
>>
>> On 17 Jul 2009, at 14:31, a radix wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone, ok this may sem elike a strange question but I  
>>> read that, if you want to navigate through a window to review it,  
>>> or a document for example you need to use the voice key (which is  
>>> either command or control if i got that right)+ arrow down or up,  
>>> but would tha tnot require both hand and is there a way to do it  
>>> single handedly. I use braille all the time and this would make it  
>>> a lot slower for me to read stuff, or will maybe the arrow keys on  
>>> my braille display be able to simulate this, i Wonder.
>>> Greetings, Anouk,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Geen virus gevonden in het binnenkomende-bericht.
> Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com
> Versie: 8.5.387 / Virusdatabase: 270.13.18/2243 - datum van  
> uitgifte: 07/17/09 06:08:00
>
> >


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searching for specefic text on a webpage

[a radix]

Hi everyone, Currently on windows I use hal 7.0 and webformator for surfing the 
web. Webformator displays the webpage in a sort of text-file which allows you 
to just browse it, i mean go through it all with arrow up/down and tab to go to 
link/link. You can use (and that is the one great feature I love about 
webformator) control-f to search for specefic text in a webpage. Since it is a 
text file (sort off, you can stiull click on links) it does not restrict you to 
link but will also instantly point you to a word in the actual body of the 
webpage, i often visit forums etc that I know quite well and find this feature 
very useful because it means I can navigate them quickly and efficiently. Also 
since, once again its a text file I can search for for example combobox in the 
control-f dialog and it will bring me to the first of these. I wonder if 
anything like this exists in safari-voiceover? I am actually hoping that 
transition will be easier for me becaus eI hav emostly been using a kin dof 
dumb screenreader, just using the windows commands and not many screenreader 
ocmmands at all so I am hoping I will be able to adapt quickly.
Greetings, Anouk,
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Re: introduction/noob questions(longish)

[a radix]

Hi, Hmmm the only functions I would need is the workflow (as it is calle din 
windows) creat one to tell to scan text and then save it to a word document. I 
know with prior version syou could have some kind of macro in word (this was in 
windows htough) so that you could go to the file menu and say something like 
scan text and omnipage owuld automatically scan the text in the tray of your 
scanner and also go through its ocr processes and return it as text file sin 
word and then you could save them yoruself. Unfortunately I have not been able 
to get this to work with version 16, but under windows this is no problem since 
I can use workflow in omnipage itself although it is a teeny bit cumbersome if 
you are used to doing it directly from word.
I wonder, is this possible still on the mac?
You are right on theupdating, omnipage for windows has been around for a long 
time too (the latest version that is).
I have heard however that abby finereader is rather good as well, maybbe that 
does work with voicover/mac.
Thanks for the info!
Greetings, Anouk,
  - Original Message - 
  From: James & Nash 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 9:59 PM
  Subject: Re: introduction/noob questions(longish)


  Hi Anouk,

  I have used Omnipage on Mac OS X and although I could get around it with some 
help from a friend on this lsit, it was not really VO friendly. Also, I do not 
think it has been updated recently. 

  Take care 

  James 
- Original Message - 
From: a radix 
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: introduction/noob questions(longish)


Thanks for all the information, folks, it really helps. I already found out 
omnipage will work on the mac which is GREAT since I use it to scan my books 
for school (i need a high quality ocr interface for that because I dont want to 
edit anything, just scan, paste it all in one file and go). Yes windows in 
vmware or even ubuntu would be a good thing i guess. I amnot sure how much I 
would trust multiboot but if it works well in vmware and doesnt slow os x I 
might try that.
Thanks again!
Greetings, Anouk,
  - Original Message - 
  From: Chris Blouch 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 5:00 PM
  Subject: Re: introduction/noob questions(longish)


  To clarify on a couple of your questions:

  2.
  Networking stuff is pretty standardized now days so your Mac will play 
well on most any wireless or wired network.

  3.
  Some printers and scanners are well supported and some are not. Depends 
on the model.

  4.
  Yes, Voiceover can be activated after booting off the OSX installer DVD. 
In other words, you can do a from the ground up wipe and reinstall without 
sighted assistance. I suspect that was the gist of your question and not so 
much about how to upgrade the hard drive.

  6.
  OSX is unix underneath but Apple's GUI and frameworks running on top. So 
while ORCA could be ported to the mac it would be a substantial bit of
  work to get it hooked into all the Apple stuff. If there wasn't a good 
screen reader built-in somebody might undertake the effort but it's probably 
not worth it. Diehard unix folks port all kinds of stuff to the mac. MacPorts 
has around 6000 packages in its library so if you're into that kind of thing 
take a poke at macports.org.

  While you didn't ask, note that all macs made since 2006 run on Intel 
processors so there is a thriving industry in virtual machines for the Mac. In 
other words you can either do a multi-boot setup for Windows/Mac or run Windows 
in a window on your mac. Turns out the Mac actually is one of the faster (some 
say the fastest) windows laptop on the market. Most folks seem to like the 
VMWare Fusion route which puts Windows(or linux or whatever) in a window which 
works fairly well. It makes for a nice 'safety net' as you get more comfortable 
on the Mac.

  CB

  a radix wrote: 
Hello, I am very new to apple in general (although I did use an ipod 
shuffle and a rockboxed 5.5g imod i nthe past). I am a 24-year old blind law 
student from the Netherlands and have been using computers from a very young 
age mostly with dos, windows and sometimes ubuntu. Recently I became interested 
in macbook pro because I am an audiophile and the macbooks are one of the few 
powerful laptops I know that have optical audio output. But of course I was 
also interested in trying os x since I had read the voicover page (although not 
the manual).
I went to a local apple store yesterda and was rather disppointed that 
I could not seem to use things intuitively as I had thought so I mailed apple 
accessibility who pointed me to the manual and this page. Aside from the fact 
that I thought apple voicover would not be usable (and so neither os x) by a 
blind person right out of the box (

Hi,

[Alex Jurgensen]

I have not yet worked on the machines. I forgot that the drives on the  
Unibodies are exposable quite easily in the Macbook. Abaing, I can't  
speak to the unibody pros.

Regards,
Alex,


On 16-Jul-09, at 5:45 PM, Scott Howell wrote:

> Alex, changing the drive is not any more difficult, other than you  
> have to remove the bottom of the case and it just requires a small  
> philips screwdriver.
> On Jul 16, 2009, at 8:05 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:
>
>> HI,
>>
>> I am answering your questions inline just below where they apear:
>>
>>
>> On 16-Jul-09, at 4:32 PM, a radix wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, I am very new to apple in general (although I did use an  
>>> ipod shuffle and a rockboxed 5.5g imod i nthe past). I am a 24- 
>>> year old blind law student from the Netherlands and have been  
>>> using computers from a very young age mostly with dos, windows and  
>>> sometimes ubuntu. Recently I became interested in macbook pro  
>>> because I am an audiophile and the macbooks are one of the few  
>>> powerful laptops I know that have optical audio output. But of  
>>> course I was also interested in trying os x since I had read the  
>>> voicover page (although not the manual).
>>> I went to a local apple store yesterda and was rather disppointed  
>>> that I could not seem to use things intuitively as I had  
>>> thought, ...
>>
>> Answer: This is because VO is not a traditional screen reader but  
>> revolutionizes the was AT works, ...
>>
>>
>>> so I mailed apple accessibility who pointed me to the manual and  
>>> this page. Aside from the fact that I thought apple voicover would  
>>> not be usable (and so neither os x) by a blind person right out of  
>>> the box (I am rather independand and besides no one in my vicinity  
>>> knows anything about apple) I was concerned that the screenreader  
>>> was not made by a professional screenreader manufacturer, ...
>>
>> Answer: Apple is a proffessional screen reader manufacturer and can  
>> be concidered such since Leopard's release. What is a screen reader  
>> manufacturer, but someone or some people who know how to make a  
>> screen reader that can be used in every day life. FS and GW Micro  
>> started life small too. Just because Apple's main focus is not  
>> accessibility, does not make them any less professional, ...
>>
>>
>>> and was built-in into os x (after all narrator is not that great  
>>> although it is functional) I was also concerned by the lack of  
>>> scriptability or map files to make unaccessible applications  
>>> accessible., ...
>>
>> Answer: Again this is a cultural ifference between Apple and FS/GW  
>> Micro/Orca. Developers on the Mac generally jusmp at the chance to  
>> make their applications accessible. These update come fairly  
>> quickly., ...
>>
>>> In short I thought it would be a second Narrator. Also despite my  
>>> googling I could not finda user community for vo, no one in nl  
>>> seems to use it.
>>> So I will be reading the manual asap but a few quick questions:, ...
>>
>> Answer: I believe some members on this list are from the NL. Also,  
>> there are a lot of resources such as:
>> http://www.lioncort.com/
>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com/
>> http://www.apple.com/accessibility/
>>
>> Many more exist, ...
>>
>>
>>> 1. does omnipage pro work on the mac/is it accessible?
>> Answer: Perhaps, and I can't speak to this one personally, but most  
>> people use Voscan and REad Iris for OCR.
>>
>>> 2. I guess it would be able to use my linksys route ron the mac?
>> Answer:
>>> Yes. You can for sure. I had one for a few years and just replaced  
>>> it. It worked great, despite a small bug in Safari that rendered  
>>> the web interface useless. However, this has been resolved.
>>
>>
>>> 3. hp scanners/printers, are they supported?
>> Answer: Generally yes. However, do a search on your model for  
>> specifics. Hint: Twain Sain for Mac supports scanners the OS does  
>> not by default.
>>
>>
>>> 4. Is it possible to install mac os x (or reinstall it sinc eI  
>>> guess it always comes preinstalled but you might want to install a  
>>> bigger hd for example) as a blind person? (this is possible with  
>>> both ubuntu and windows xp).
>> Answer: It is possible, though challenging if you have a unibody  
>> machine because of the design of the shell/casing, but this is not  
>> a software problem, but a hardware issue with a select few models.  
>> In contrast the Mac Pro is super easy to change drives with the  
>> Macbook White and Mac Mini in between.
>>
>>
>>> 5. How is braille support with voiceover? I dont mean the displays  
>>> themselves i know mine will work but the amount of details shown  
>>> versus spech. I am a die-hard braille user.
>>
>> Answer: It is very good. Norigion I don't belive is supported right  
>> now for Braille Tables, but it may be in September.
>>
>>
>>> 6. Since os x is unix based, I wonder if ORCA (the screenreader  
>>> for linux, although it work sunder gnome) will ever be ported?
>> A

Re: introduction/noob questions(longish)

[Alex Jurgensen]

Hi,

This will change with Snow Leopard prbably, sence SL, according to the  
public post on Apple's site will inclued the ability to label  
unidetified interfaces.

Regards,
Alex,


On 17-Jul-09, at 12:59 PM, James & Nash wrote:

> Hi Anouk,
>
> I have used Omnipage on Mac OS X and although I could get around it  
> with some help from a friend on this lsit, it was not really VO  
> friendly. Also, I do not think it has been updated recently.
>
> Take care
>
> James
> - Original Message -
> From: a radix
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:04 PM
> Subject: Re: introduction/noob questions(longish)
>
> Thanks for all the information, folks, it really helps. I already  
> found out omnipage will work on the mac which is GREAT since I use  
> it to scan my books for school (i need a high quality ocr interface  
> for that because I dont want to edit anything, just scan, paste it  
> all in one file and go). Yes windows in vmware or even ubuntu would  
> be a good thing i guess. I amnot sure how much I would trust  
> multiboot but if it works well in vmware and doesnt slow os x I  
> might try that.
> Thanks again!
> Greetings, Anouk,
> - Original Message -
> From: Chris Blouch
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 5:00 PM
> Subject: Re: introduction/noob questions(longish)
>
> To clarify on a couple of your questions:
>
> 2.
> Networking stuff is pretty standardized now days so your Mac will  
> play well on most any wireless or wired network.
>
> 3.
> Some printers and scanners are well supported and some are not.  
> Depends on the model.
>
> 4.
> Yes, Voiceover can be activated after booting off the OSX installer  
> DVD. In other words, you can do a from the ground up wipe and  
> reinstall without sighted assistance. I suspect that was the gist of  
> your question and not so much about how to upgrade the hard drive.
>
> 6.
> OSX is unix underneath but Apple's GUI and frameworks running on  
> top. So while ORCA could be ported to the mac it would be a  
> substantial bit of
> work to get it hooked into all the Apple stuff. If there wasn't a  
> good screen reader built-in somebody might undertake the effort but  
> it's probably not worth it. Diehard unix folks port all kinds of  
> stuff to the mac. MacPorts has around 6000 packages in its library  
> so if you're into that kind of thing take a poke at macports.org.
>
> While you didn't ask, note that all macs made since 2006 run on  
> Intel processors so there is a thriving industry in virtual machines  
> for the Mac. In other words you can either do a multi-boot setup for  
> Windows/Mac or run Windows in a window on your mac. Turns out the  
> Mac actually is one of the faster (some say the fastest) windows  
> laptop on the market. Most folks seem to like the VMWare Fusion  
> route which puts Windows(or linux or whatever) in a window which  
> works fairly well. It makes for a nice 'safety net' as you get more  
> comfortable on the Mac.
>
> CB
>
> a radix wrote:
>>
>> Hello, I am very new to apple in general (although I did use an  
>> ipod shuffle and a rockboxed 5.5g imod i nthe past). I am a 24-year  
>> old blind law student from the Netherlands and have been using  
>> computers from a very young age mostly with dos, windows and  
>> sometimes ubuntu. Recently I became interested in macbook pro  
>> because I am an audiophile and the macbooks are one of the few  
>> powerful laptops I know that have optical audio output. But of  
>> course I was also interested in trying os x since I had read the  
>> voicover page (although not the manual).
>> I went to a local apple store yesterda and was rather disppointed  
>> that I could not seem to use things intuitively as I had thought so  
>> I mailed apple accessibility who pointed me to the manual and this  
>> page. Aside from the fact that I thought apple voicover would not  
>> be usable (and so neither os x) by a blind person right out of the  
>> box (I am rather independand and besides no one in my vicinity  
>> knows anything about apple) I was concerned that the screenreader  
>> was not made by a professional screenreader manufacturer and was  
>> built-in into os x (after all narrator is not that great although  
>> it is functional) I was also concerned by the lack of scriptability  
>> or map files to make unaccessible applications accessible. In short  
>> I thought it would be a second Narrator. Also despite my googling I  
>> could not finda user community for vo, no one in nl seems to use it.
>> So I will be reading the manual asap but a few quick questions:
>> 1. does omnipage pro work on the mac/is it accessible?
>> 2. I guess it would be able to use my linksys route ron the mac?
>> 3. hp scanners/printers, are they supported?
>> 4. Is it possible to install mac os x (or reinstall it sinc eI  
>> guess it always comes preinstalled but you might want to install a  
>> bigger hd for example) as a b

Re: compatibility with ms word

[Alex Jurgensen]

Hi,

That is iWorks 09. iLife is the entertainment suite.


OOO Writter is cool and such, but OOO has the best tech team behind it  
I have seen.

Regards,
Alex,


On 17-Jul-09, at 3:06 PM, kaare dehard wrote:

> check out open office or ilife 09 depending on your tastes and  
> needs. Both will support .doc files. The ms office put out by my  
> heros will not work with vo however.
> On 17-Jul-09, at 2:34 PM, a radix wrote:
>
>> Hello, so the question is basically as in my subject, i have to do  
>> documents for school which they prefer you submit in .doc format  
>> because they go through a database to prevent fraud, I guess apple  
>> is compatible with microsoft word (i do understand I might have to  
>> get some kind of office suite for that).
>> Greetings, Anouk,
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> >


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Re: searching for specefic text on a webpage

[Josh de Lioncourt]

VoiceOver has a function called "Item Chooser" which is available  
anywhere, not just on the web. When you press it, it brings up a sort  
of menu of everything being displayed in the window. If you type a few  
letters in, the menu shrinks to only include items which contain the  
letters you typed. It is actually much nicer than a traditional find  
command, as you are describing, and a whole lot more powerful. :)

HTH.


Josh de Lioncourt
…my other mail provider is an owl…

Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt
Music: http://stage19music.com
Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com
Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com
GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt

On Jul 17, 2009, at 4:30 PM, a radix wrote:

> Hi everyone, Currently on windows I use hal 7.0 and webformator for  
> surfing the web. Webformator displays the webpage in a sort of text- 
> file which allows you to just browse it, i mean go through it all  
> with arrow up/down and tab to go to link/link. You can use (and that  
> is the one great feature I love about webformator) control-f to  
> search for specefic text in a webpage. Since it is a text file (sort  
> off, you can stiull click on links) it does not restrict you to link  
> but will also instantly point you to a word in the actual body of  
> the webpage, i often visit forums etc that I know quite well and  
> find this feature very useful because it means I can navigate them  
> quickly and efficiently. Also since, once again its a text file I  
> can search for for example combobox in the control-f dialog and it  
> will bring me to the first of these. I wonder if anything like this  
> exists in safari-voiceover? I am actually hoping that transition  
> will be easier for me becaus eI hav emostly been using a kin dof  
> dumb screenreader, just using the windows commands and not many  
> screenreader ocmmands at all so I am hoping I will be able to adapt  
> quickly.
> Greetings, Anouk,
>
> >


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Re: mac support/warranty, does it matter where you buy?

[Alex Jurgensen]

Hi,

According to a person working at my local Apple Store, you can buy it  
anywhere and it will work internationally, though Apple recomends you  
buy in the country you are living in. Note: AppleCare can be bought  
within the first 11 Months, so you can buy the Mac in another country,  
ship it with its coverage still being covered, and then buy AppleCare.

Regards,
Alex,


On 17-Jul-09, at 11:32 AM, a radix wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I wonder if it is advisable to buy a macbook pro from the appl  
> eonline store or an apple stor ein general or if it is ok to buy one  
> just anywhere? The apple store is not very accessible for me bu tI  
> could order by phone although, of course I would like to find the  
> cheapest place to buy one, lol. I guess apple gives support no  
> matter where you have bought your laptop, as long as it is, for me  
> for example, within th eNetherlands? I also wonder about warranty,  
> is it still only one year standard. I find that kind of meager, in  
> europe most costly stuff like this has standard 2 years, although to  
> be honest some other laptop companies do persist in only giving one  
> year as well. Is it possible to get on site warranty or is it pick  
> up and return or maybe even carry in?
>
> Thanks again for all the help,
>
> Greetings, Anouk,
>
>
> >


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Re: Alex: resources

[Alex Jurgensen]

They have been covered in tis thread already, but 
http://www.icanworkthisthing.com/ 
  is another.

Regards,
Alex,


On 16-Jul-09, at 11:48 PM, a radix wrote:

> Hey Alex and others, sorry I remember you mentioning lincourt.com  
> but what were the other resources you mentioned? I accidentally  
> deleted your message before saving it.
> Greetings, Anouk,
>
> >


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Re: Probably a simple question.

[Alex Jurgensen]

Hi,

This only searches in the viewable area on-screen, so if a webpage  
spans across multiple pages it may not work.

Regards,
Alex,


On 16-Jul-09, at 8:40 PM, Mark Baxter wrote:

>
> As a corollary:  I've tried to use the items chooser menu when not in
> Safari, say for finding my place in an E-mail.  It doesn't seem to
> work; does items chooser only work in Safari on a web page?
>
>
> Mark BurningHawk
>
> Skype and Twitter:  BurningHawk1969
> MSN:  burninghawk1...@hotmail.com
> My home page:
> http://MarkBurningHawk.net/
>
>
> >


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Re: IPhones

[Alex Jurgensen]

Hes,

The 16 is all you need, as long as it is the 16 GB iPhone 3GS.

Regards,
Alex,


On 17-Jul-09, at 3:29 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

>
> Thanks for that.
> So if the 16gig version is that much cheaper not that I'm in the  
> USA  to by
> from at&t.
>
> The 16 would be all I neex to have full accessibility.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Fonzie
> Sent: Friday, 17 July 2009 12:44 a.m.
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: IPhones
>
>
> Hello Simon, how are you doing?
>
> Yes, you are correct in your assumption.
>
> Both models, iPhone 3GS 16 GB, and iPhone 3GS 32 GB, contain VoiceOver
> onboard.
>
> The prices are as follows.  Keep in mind, I am listing the prices for
> the AT&T versions of these phones.
>
> If you are wanting to upgrade to a new two year agreement the prices
> are as follows.
> iPhone3GS 16GB $199.99
> iPhone3GS 32GB $299.99
>
> If AT&T allows you to do an early upgrade, in which that renews your
> contract for two years within your current contract, the prices are as
> follows.  Keep in mind, not everyone is eligible for a contract
> renewal.  All it simply means is, that your currently under contract,
> and if you are eligible, you can upgrade with the understanding that
> you are extending your contract for another two years.  Remember, you
> must be under contract already, for this to happen.  You usually have
> to be under contract for about a year, and they will allow you to
> upgrade early to a newer device.
>
> iPhone 3GS 16GB $399.99
> iPhone 3GS 32GB $499.99
>
> If you feel like buying an iPHone straight, with no contract, and
> under AT&T's retail price, the list is as follows.
> iPhone 3GS 16GB $499.99
> iPhone 3GS 32GB $599.99
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Take care.
>
> Fonzie
>
> On Jul 16, 2009, at 5:39 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:
>
>>
>> Morning folks,
>>
>> Am I orrect in thinking there is a 32 and a 16 gig IPhone 3gs?
>>
>> And if so, does the 16 gig version have the VO / accessibility
>> onboard!?
>>
>> And what price are they going for In u s dollars if possible!
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> simon
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
> >


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Re: ipod touch

[Alex Jurgensen]

No,

Itdoes not since iPods are encrypted.

Regards,
Alex,


On 17-Jul-09, at 12:25 AM, a radix wrote:

> Hey, no I dont think rockbox works on any of the newer ipods. I have  
> a sansa clip now though and am happy with it especially since there  
> is no need for itunes which is unaccessible with the version of hal  
> I am using. I know hal is not the greatest but it is intuitive and  
> fast/good with braille (never have to use speech at all).
> Greetings, Anouk,
> - Original Message -
> From: william lomas
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 8:55 AM
> Subject: Re: ipod touch
>
> well the new ipod touch coming out, i believe, will ahve the  
> voiceover capabilities built in but i think rockbox at the moment  
> can work on it
>
> On 17 Jul 2009, at 07:49, a radix wrote:
>
>> Hello, I dont want to buy one of these but I was still curious,  
>> does the ipod touch use an actual screenreader (voiceover) or does  
>> it use voiceclips like the classic (if the classic does it yet|)  
>> and the shuffle? In the first case then I guess using voicover on  
>> the iphone was an evolutionary step.
>> I just listened to a podcast about iphone/voiceover and it seems  
>> all rpetty exiting. It was a general tal kbroadcast though, i would  
>> still love to hear a handson demo but with som eof the features  
>> being described it sure seems workable.
>> Greetings, Anouk,
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Geen virus gevonden in het binnenkomende-bericht.
> Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com
> Versie: 8.5.387 / Virusdatabase: 270.13.16/2241 - datum van  
> uitgifte: 07/16/09 05:58:00
>
> >


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Re: does reading on the mac take two hands?

[Alex Jurgensen]

Hi,

USB OverDrive does not work with the PM 40 display for sure. It just  
doesn't show up.

Regards,
Alex,


On 17-Jul-09, at 7:33 AM, Scott Bresnahan wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> In addition to Ester's excellent recommendations, there's a system
> extension called USB Overdrive that will allow you to set keyboard
> actions for USB key presses on controllers and mice.  Although I
> don't know what the Braille devices appear as to the USB bus, it may
> be possible that USB Overdrive will recognize this and you could
> customize the arrow keys you mentioned.  I have a nice CH Products
> Throttle Pro left over from flight simulator days that can handle a
> lot of VO navigation.  Although, a simple cheap USB game pad would
> work as well.
>
> USB Overdrive is free to try and available at versiontracker, or most
> any Mac download site.
>
>
> Best,
> Scott
>
>
>
> Hi Anouk,
>
> Although you use the VoiceOver keys (Control and Option) for
> navigation, you can lock these keys on with VO-semi-colon
> (Control-Option-Semi-colon).  Then any commands you issue assume that
> the VoiceOver keys (Control and Option) are engaged until your press
> semi-colon again.  Many people lock their VoiceOver keys while
> reading long pages.
>
> Another alternative is to use NumPad Commander (with Leopard).  This
> is a functionality that uses the numeric keypad to pre-program
> shortcuts for the most common VoiceOver commands.  You need to use
> either a full keyboard, an older Mac laptop with embedded numeric
> keypad, or a current Mac laptop with either attached numeric keypad
> or keyboard with numeric keypad in order to use NumPad Commander.
> Or, as I've just posted, you may be able to use the free NumberKey
> app on an iPhone to use your iPhone as a numeric keypad that works
> with NumPad Commander shortcuts.  You can customize NumPad Commander
> with your own shortcut definitions as well as using their standard
> set.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Esther
>
> On Jul 17, 2009, at 03:44, william lomas wrote:
>
> you have to use control option and arrow keys, to navigate around
>
> On 17 Jul 2009, at 14:31, a radix wrote:
>
> Hello everyone, ok this may sem elike a strange question but I read
> that, if you want to navigate through a window to review it, or a
> document for example you need to use the voice key (which is either
> command or control if i got that right)+ arrow down or up, but would
> tha tnot require both hand and is there a way to do it single
> handedly. I use braille all the time and this would make it a lot
> slower for me to read stuff, or will maybe the arrow keys on my
> braille display be able to simulate this, i Wonder.
> Greetings, Anouk,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> --Scott
>
> >


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Re: Hi,

[Scott Howell]

Alex, the first unibody MacBooks had the drive on the right-hand side  
if I remember. The newer unibody MacBook Pro once flipped over, 10  
screws removed, and the bottom cover pulled; you find the hard drive  
on the left-hand side of the case in the front as you will find the  
battery on the right-hand side near the front. The one thing I  
couldn't find is the ram, but the manual was about as clear as mud on  
this or I just didn't understand what it was trying to tell me. :)


On Jul 17, 2009, at 7:44 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:

>
> I have not yet worked on the machines. I forgot that the drives on  
> the Unibodies are exposable quite easily in the Macbook. Abaing, I  
> can't speak to the unibody pros.
>
> Regards,
> Alex,


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Re: Hi,

[Alex Jurgensen]

Hi,

Thanks. One of these machines hasn't come this way, so I hope it is as  
you say. Anyway, thanks for the information.

Regards,
Alex,


On 17-Jul-09, at 4:59 PM, Scott Howell wrote:

>
> Alex, the first unibody MacBooks had the drive on the right-hand side
> if I remember. The newer unibody MacBook Pro once flipped over, 10
> screws removed, and the bottom cover pulled; you find the hard drive
> on the left-hand side of the case in the front as you will find the
> battery on the right-hand side near the front. The one thing I
> couldn't find is the ram, but the manual was about as clear as mud on
> this or I just didn't understand what it was trying to tell me. :)
>
>
> On Jul 17, 2009, at 7:44 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:
>
>>
>> I have not yet worked on the machines. I forgot that the drives on
>> the Unibodies are exposable quite easily in the Macbook. Abaing, I
>> can't speak to the unibody pros.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alex,
>
>
> >


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Re: Probably a simple question.

[Josh de Lioncourt]

To make this more clear…

Item Chooser only searches the viewable area outside of Safari. It  
works with the entire web page contents within Safari. That's the  
difference. :)

Josh de Lioncourt
…my other mail provider is an owl…

Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt
Music: http://stage19music.com
Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com
Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com
GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt

On Jul 17, 2009, at 4:54 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> This only searches in the viewable area on-screen, so if a webpage
> spans across multiple pages it may not work.
>
> Regards,
> Alex,
>
>
> On 16-Jul-09, at 8:40 PM, Mark Baxter wrote:
>
>>
>> As a corollary:  I've tried to use the items chooser menu when not in
>> Safari, say for finding my place in an E-mail.  It doesn't seem to
>> work; does items chooser only work in Safari on a web page?
>>
>>
>> Mark BurningHawk


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Re: Accessibility fix in iTunes 8.2.1

[Scott Bresnahan]

Hi,

I know VO has a lot of odd unexplained focus issues, but could it be 
that you are really jumping to the newly loaded iTunes store html 
page then as you vo-up arrow, you move to the controls because you 
have your vo prefs set to move vo cursor to a newly loaded web page? 
The iTunes store rely on html within iTunes and I think that may be 
causing the vo cursor focus jump in this case.

--Scott


>Hi,
>Speaking of iTunes v 8.x.
>When I upgraded to the iTunes 8 or whatever the most recent big leap
>was, I started having a problem with the sources table.
>
>If I was below the list section under iTunes store, like say my iPod
>or the playlists and arrowed up, once I hit anything in the iTunes
>section of the list like purchase, shopping cart, itunes store, ect.
>it would jump me up to the player controls and it was, still is very
>hard to get to the settings under library like music, audio books
>podcasts ect.
>
>Also is there a way to get LBC out of London to play on iTunes? I find
>their little flash player thing to be inaccessible. And I like to
>switch back and forth between the 97.3 talk station and 1152 all news
>station.
>
>Best Wishes
>Jenny Kennedy (Howard)
>blueskyes9112...@gmail.com
>Olathe, Kansas USA
>
>Join me on FaceBook:
>Personal Profile - www.facebook.com/blueskyes
>And feel free to join "The Blind Parents of FaceBook" group.  Search
>for it in groups or contact me for details.
>
>Follow me via twitter using the username: ben_folds_fan
>
>
>
-- 
--Scott

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Re: compatibility with ms word

[kaare dehard]

oops sorry got my products mixed up.
On 17-Jul-09, at 7:49 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:

> Hi,
>
> That is iWorks 09. iLife is the entertainment suite.
>
>
> OOO Writter is cool and such, but OOO has the best tech team behind  
> it I have seen.
>
> Regards,
> Alex,
>
>
> On 17-Jul-09, at 3:06 PM, kaare dehard wrote:
>
>> check out open office or ilife 09 depending on your tastes and  
>> needs. Both will support .doc files. The ms office put out by my  
>> heros will not work with vo however.
>> On 17-Jul-09, at 2:34 PM, a radix wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, so the question is basically as in my subject, i have to do  
>>> documents for school which they prefer you submit in .doc format  
>>> because they go through a database to prevent fraud, I guess apple  
>>> is compatible with microsoft word (i do understand I might have to  
>>> get some kind of office suite for that).
>>> Greetings, Anouk,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> >


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Re: introduction/noob questions(longish)

[a radix]

Hello, Oh that is marvellous! I think the windows screenreaders have it and it 
is grea thtat apple will introduce it too. I guess you would need a sighted 
person to help you with it the first time. I hope you will be able to save your 
own labels in some kind of custom file so you can save them over reinstall. 
Even if this wont be possible it would still be nice of course!
Greetings, Anouk,
  - Original Message - 
  From: Alex Jurgensen 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 1:46 AM
  Subject: Re: introduction/noob questions(longish)


  Hi,


  This will change with Snow Leopard prbably, sence SL, according to the public 
post on Apple's site will inclued the ability to label unidetified interfaces.


  Regards,
  Alex,




  On 17-Jul-09, at 12:59 PM, James & Nash wrote:


Hi Anouk,

I have used Omnipage on Mac OS X and although I could get around it with 
some help from a friend on this lsit, it was not really VO friendly. Also, I do 
not think it has been updated recently.

Take care

James
  - Original Message -
  From: a radix
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:04 PM
  Subject: Re: introduction/noob questions(longish)


  Thanks for all the information, folks, it really helps. I already found 
out omnipage will work on the mac which is GREAT since I use it to scan my 
books for school (i need a high quality ocr interface for that because I dont 
want to edit anything, just scan, paste it all in one file and go). Yes windows 
in vmware or even ubuntu would be a good thing i guess. I amnot sure how much I 
would trust multiboot but if it works well in vmware and doesnt slow os x I 
might try that.
  Thanks again!
  Greetings, Anouk,
- Original Message -
From: Chris Blouch
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: introduction/noob questions(longish)


To clarify on a couple of your questions:

2.
Networking stuff is pretty standardized now days so your Mac will play 
well on most any wireless or wired network.

3.
Some printers and scanners are well supported and some are not. Depends 
on the model.

4.
Yes, Voiceover can be activated after booting off the OSX installer 
DVD. In other words, you can do a from the ground up wipe and reinstall without 
sighted assistance. I suspect that was the gist of your question and not so 
much about how to upgrade the hard drive.

6.
OSX is unix underneath but Apple's GUI and frameworks running on top. 
So while ORCA could be ported to the mac it would be a substantial bit of
work to get it hooked into all the Apple stuff. If there wasn't a good 
screen reader built-in somebody might undertake the effort but it's probably 
not worth it. Diehard unix folks port all kinds of stuff to the mac. MacPorts 
has around 6000 packages in its library so if you're into that kind of thing 
take a poke at macports.org.

While you didn't ask, note that all macs made since 2006 run on Intel 
processors so there is a thriving industry in virtual machines for the Mac. In 
other words you can either do a multi-boot setup for Windows/Mac or run Windows 
in a window on your mac. Turns out the Mac actually is one of the faster (some 
say the fastest) windows laptop on the market. Most folks seem to like the 
VMWare Fusion route which puts Windows(or linux or whatever) in a window which 
works fairly well. It makes for a nice 'safety net' as you get more comfortable 
on the Mac.

CB

a radix wrote:
  Hello, I am very new to apple in general (although I did use an ipod 
shuffle and a rockboxed 5.5g imod i nthe past). I am a 24-year old blind law 
student from the Netherlands and have been using computers from a very young 
age mostly with dos, windows and sometimes ubuntu. Recently I became interested 
in macbook pro because I am an audiophile and the macbooks are one of the few 
powerful laptops I know that have optical audio output. But of course I was 
also interested in trying os x since I had read the voicover page (although not 
the manual).
  I went to a local apple store yesterda and was rather disppointed 
that I could not seem to use things intuitively as I had thought so I mailed 
apple accessibility who pointed me to the manual and this page. Aside from the 
fact that I thought apple voicover would not be usable (and so neither os x) by 
a blind person right out of the box (I am rather independand and besides no one 
in my vicinity knows anything about apple) I was concerned that the 
screenreader was not made by a professional screenreader manufacturer and was 
built-in into os x (after all narrator is not that great although it is 
functional) I was also concerned by the lack of scriptability or map files to 
make unaccessible applicat

Re: mac support/warranty, does it matter where you buy?

[a radix]

Hello GREAT so this could mean I could buy a mac in the states (much cheaper 
because of euro-dollar) have it shipped to me and then buy apple care here in 
nl? (I would of course have to find a company willing to do this or an apple 
which is less then one year old, or is apple care not transferrable? I would 
have to find a new charger I guess but I think as long as the charger accepts 
nl ac input it should be ok since the laptop normally has a much lower voltage 
which i think is not different per ocuntry.
Thanks
Greetings, Anouk,
  - Original Message - 
  From: Alex Jurgensen 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 1:51 AM
  Subject: Re: mac support/warranty, does it matter where you buy?


  Hi,


  According to a person working at my local Apple Store, you can buy it 
anywhere and it will work internationally, though Apple recomends you buy in 
the country you are living in. Note: AppleCare can be bought within the first 
11 Months, so you can buy the Mac in another country, ship it with its coverage 
still being covered, and then buy AppleCare.


  Regards,
  Alex,




  On 17-Jul-09, at 11:32 AM, a radix wrote:


Hello everyone,

I wonder if it is advisable to buy a macbook pro from the appl eonline 
store or an apple stor ein general or if it is ok to buy one just anywhere? The 
apple store is not very accessible for me bu tI could order by phone although, 
of course I would like to find the cheapest place to buy one, lol. I guess 
apple gives support no matter where you have bought your laptop, as long as it 
is, for me for example, within th eNetherlands? I also wonder about warranty, 
is it still only one year standard. I find that kind of meager, in europe most 
costly stuff like this has standard 2 years, although to be honest some other 
laptop companies do persist in only giving one year as well. Is it possible to 
get on site warranty or is it pick up and return or maybe even carry in?

Thanks again for all the help,

Greetings, Anouk,








  



--



  Geen virus gevonden in het binnenkomende-bericht.
  Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com 
  Versie: 8.5.387 / Virusdatabase: 270.13.18/2243 - datum van uitgifte: 
07/17/09 06:08:00

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Re: mac support/warranty, does it matter where you buy?

[Alex Jurgensen]

Hi,

Yes, you can buy from the US. Then you just need a power converter,  
not a new brick.

Regards,
Alex,


On 17-Jul-09, at 5:55 PM, a radix wrote:

> Hello GREAT so this could mean I could buy a mac in the states (much  
> cheaper because of euro-dollar) have it shipped to me and then buy  
> apple care here in nl? (I would of course have to find a company  
> willing to do this or an apple which is less then one year old, or  
> is apple care not transferrable? I would have to find a new charger  
> I guess but I think as long as the charger accepts nl ac input it  
> should be ok since the laptop normally has a much lower voltage  
> which i think is not different per ocuntry.
> Thanks
> Greetings, Anouk,
> - Original Message -
> From: Alex Jurgensen
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 1:51 AM
> Subject: Re: mac support/warranty, does it matter where you buy?
>
> Hi,
>
> According to a person working at my local Apple Store, you can buy  
> it anywhere and it will work internationally, though Apple recomends  
> you buy in the country you are living in. Note: AppleCare can be  
> bought within the first 11 Months, so you can buy the Mac in another  
> country, ship it with its coverage still being covered, and then buy  
> AppleCare.
>
> Regards,
> Alex,
>
>
> On 17-Jul-09, at 11:32 AM, a radix wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I wonder if it is advisable to buy a macbook pro from the appl  
>> eonline store or an apple stor ein general or if it is ok to buy  
>> one just anywhere? The apple store is not very accessible for me bu  
>> tI could order by phone although, of course I would like to find  
>> the cheapest place to buy one, lol. I guess apple gives support no  
>> matter where you have bought your laptop, as long as it is, for me  
>> for example, within th eNetherlands? I also wonder about warranty,  
>> is it still only one year standard. I find that kind of meager, in  
>> europe most costly stuff like this has standard 2 years, although  
>> to be honest some other laptop companies do persist in only giving  
>> one year as well. Is it possible to get on site warranty or is it  
>> pick up and return or maybe even carry in?
>>
>> Thanks again for all the help,
>>
>> Greetings, Anouk,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Geen virus gevonden in het binnenkomende-bericht.
> Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com
> Versie: 8.5.387 / Virusdatabase: 270.13.18/2243 - datum van  
> uitgifte: 07/17/09 06:08:00
>
> >


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Re: compatibility with ms word

[Alex Jurgensen]

Hi,

No problem. We all ge mixed up at times.

Regards,
Alex,


On 17-Jul-09, at 5:42 PM, kaare dehard wrote:

> oops sorry got my products mixed up.
> On 17-Jul-09, at 7:49 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> That is iWorks 09. iLife is the entertainment suite.
>>
>>
>> OOO Writter is cool and such, but OOO has the best tech team behind  
>> it I have seen.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alex,
>>
>>
>> On 17-Jul-09, at 3:06 PM, kaare dehard wrote:
>>
>>> check out open office or ilife 09 depending on your tastes and  
>>> needs. Both will support .doc files. The ms office put out by my  
>>> heros will not work with vo however.
>>> On 17-Jul-09, at 2:34 PM, a radix wrote:
>>>
 Hello, so the question is basically as in my subject, i have to  
 do documents for school which they prefer you submit in .doc  
 format because they go through a database to prevent fraud, I  
 guess apple is compatible with microsoft word (i do understand I  
 might have to get some kind of office suite for that).
 Greetings, Anouk,



>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> >


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Re: Drunk with power. or buying from iTunes store all on my own was Re: iTunes songs for .69 was Re: NLS digital books and future versions of iTunes,iPod, iPhone?

[Barry Lipscomb]

We'll I am a HUGE Beatles fan and I don't know when they are coming to  
iTunes but I do know when the entire remastered catalog is being  
upgraded on CD.  That will be 09/09/09.  Apple and Apple could  
surprise everybody and release it that day.


Barry

On Jul 17, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Jenny Kennedy (Howard) wrote:

>
> Oh dear, LOL when the Beetles do finally come to iTunes, please please
> sometime soon, that's just it. I'm going to make Apple, Inc. really
> really rich. *smile*
> I love them and have been very frustrated they are not on iTunes.
> Really want "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band" album, is perhaps
> my favourite or one of my top favourites. :-)
> Okay so this drunkenness with power doesn't go away. Good 'cuz y'know
> I LOVE IT!
>
>
> Best Wishes
> Jenny Kennedy (Howard)
> blueskyes9112...@gmail.com
> Olathe, Kansas USA
>
> Join me on FaceBook:
> Personal Profile - www.facebook.com/blueskyes
> And feel free to join "The Blind Parents of FaceBook" group.  Search
> for it in groups or contact me for details.
>
> Follow me via twitter using the username: ben_folds_fan
>
>
> >


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pages 9, tables and Voiceover

[Simon Cavendish]

Dear Listers,

Has anyone successfully been using Pages 9 and Voiceover while working  
with tables within a document? Can it be done reliably?

BW, Simon

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Re: mac support/warranty, does it matter where you buy?

[Esther]

HI Anouk,

Well, at least one other list member in Germany bought his Mac while  
visiting the U.S.  There are two parts to the power cable -- a power  
brick and an extension cable.  The power brick has a plug attachment,  
and there is a European plug attachment that can go into the  
connector, which uses a figure-8 plug insert.  I think these are also  
called duck-head plugs or IEC-C7 plugs.  If you feel the power brick  
without the plug inserted, there's basically a small section of the  
rectangular brick cut away, with an indentation for the figure-8 plug  
connection to get inserted.  Apple sells a world travel adapter kit  
that allows you to switch between 6 different plug connectors for  
Europe, North America, China, the UK, Korea, Australia, and Hong  
Kong.  (As far as I know, you can't buy individual plugs separately,  
and the travel adapter kit seems overpriced at $39.00, but my local  
Apple Store put some of these on sale five years ago at substantial  
discount.) Here's the link in the U.S. Store:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/M8794G/B

Buying a travel adapter plug that switches from U.S. to Continental  
European plug configuration is cheaper, and also works; you can put  
this on the end of either the U.S. adapter plug, or the end of the  
extension cable (which has 3-prongs -- just insert the 2 with blades  
into the travel adapter plug), and insert into an outlet. I've used  
this with my (U.S.) MacBook in Europe.  I think you can also use the  
figure-8 plug from any other laptop and connect it into the power  
brick -- for example, the cord from my Lenovo ThinkPad can plug into  
the MacBook power brick instead of the ThinkPad power brick and power  
it, but this might be less safe for warranty coverage.

You can certainly just buy an extra Apple MagSafe power adapter for  
the MacBook at your local Apple Store.  I do know of people in Europe  
who bought Apple Products through the U.S. Amazon Store and had them  
shipped.  This was the fastest way to get the new Nano 4G in large  
capacity when it first came out for some folks.  There are links for  
Amazon Mac products from the macintouch.com web page at:

http://www.macintouch.com/

Look under Amazon Updates.

HTH

Cheers,

Esther



On Jul 17, 2009, at 14:55, a radix wrote:

> Hello GREAT so this could mean I could buy a mac in the states (much  
> cheaper because of euro-dollar) have it shipped to me and then  buy  
> apple care here in nl? (I would of course have to find a company  
> willing to do this or an apple which is less then one year old, or  
> is apple care not transferrable? I would have to find a new charger  
> I guess but I think as long as the charger accepts nl ac input it  
> should be ok since the laptop normally has a much lower voltage  
> which i think is not different per ocuntry.
> Thanks
> Greetings, Anouk,
> - Original Message -
> From: Alex Jurgensen
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 1:51 AM
> Subject: Re: mac support/warranty, does it matter where you buy?
>
> Hi,
>
> According to a person working at my local Apple Store, you can buy  
> it anywhere and it will work internationally, though Apple recomends  
> you buy in the country you are living in. Note: AppleCare can be  
> bought within the first 11 Months, so you can buy the Mac in another  
> country, ship it with its coverage still being covered, and then buy  
> AppleCare.
>
> Regards,
> Alex,
>
>
> On 17-Jul-09, at 11:32 AM, a radix wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I wonder if it is advisable to buy a macbook pro from the appl  
>> eonline store or an apple stor ein general or if it is ok to buy  
>> one just anywhere? The apple store is not very accessible for me bu  
>> tI could order by phone although, of course I would like to find  
>> the cheapest place to buy one, lol. I guess apple gives support no  
>> matter where you have bought your laptop, as long as it is, for me  
>> for example, within th eNetherlands? I also wonder about warranty,  
>> is it still only one year standard. I find that kind of meager, in  
>> europe most costly stuff like this has standard 2 years, although  
>> to be honest some other laptop companies do persist in only giving  
>> one year as well. Is it possible to get on site warranty or is it  
>> pick up and return or maybe even carry in?
>>
>> Thanks again for all the help,
>>
>> Greetings, Anouk,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

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Re: IPhones

[Fonzie]

Hey there Simon, I hope your well.

You are correct, the 16 GB is really all you will need.

If you are a massive power user, then you can get the 32 GB, just  
depends on your needs and how much space you are wanting to have on  
your phone.

Take care of yourself.

Fonzie

On Jul 17, 2009, at 6:55 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:

>
> Hes,
>
> The 16 is all you need, as long as it is the 16 GB iPhone 3GS.
>
> Regards,
> Alex,
>
>
> On 17-Jul-09, at 3:29 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks for that.
>> So if the 16gig version is that much cheaper not that I'm in the
>> USA  to by
>> from at&t.
>>
>> The 16 would be all I neex to have full accessibility.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Fonzie
>> Sent: Friday, 17 July 2009 12:44 a.m.
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: IPhones
>>
>>
>> Hello Simon, how are you doing?
>>
>> Yes, you are correct in your assumption.
>>
>> Both models, iPhone 3GS 16 GB, and iPhone 3GS 32 GB, contain  
>> VoiceOver
>> onboard.
>>
>> The prices are as follows.  Keep in mind, I am listing the prices for
>> the AT&T versions of these phones.
>>
>> If you are wanting to upgrade to a new two year agreement the prices
>> are as follows.
>> iPhone3GS 16GB $199.99
>> iPhone3GS 32GB $299.99
>>
>> If AT&T allows you to do an early upgrade, in which that renews your
>> contract for two years within your current contract, the prices are  
>> as
>> follows.  Keep in mind, not everyone is eligible for a contract
>> renewal.  All it simply means is, that your currently under contract,
>> and if you are eligible, you can upgrade with the understanding that
>> you are extending your contract for another two years.  Remember, you
>> must be under contract already, for this to happen.  You usually have
>> to be under contract for about a year, and they will allow you to
>> upgrade early to a newer device.
>>
>> iPhone 3GS 16GB $399.99
>> iPhone 3GS 32GB $499.99
>>
>> If you feel like buying an iPHone straight, with no contract, and
>> under AT&T's retail price, the list is as follows.
>> iPhone 3GS 16GB $499.99
>> iPhone 3GS 32GB $599.99
>>
>> I hope this helps.
>>
>> Take care.
>>
>> Fonzie
>>
>> On Jul 16, 2009, at 5:39 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Morning folks,
>>>
>>> Am I orrect in thinking there is a 32 and a 16 gig IPhone 3gs?
>>>
>>> And if so, does the 16 gig version have the VO / accessibility
>>> onboard!?
>>>
>>> And what price are they going for In u s dollars if possible!
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> simon
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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RE: Drunk with power. or buying from iTunes store all on my own was Re: iTunes songs for .69 was Re: NLS digital books and future versions of iTunes,iPod, iPhone?

[Simon Fogarty]

Actually you'll be making Michael Jackson really really rich as well, as
does paul mccartney when he plays a beetles track.
 Now hows that for a screw up. One of the beetles pays the king of pop when
he plays one of his own tracks.



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jenny Kennedy (Howard)
Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2009 7:07 a.m.
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Drunk with power. or buying from iTunes store all on my own was
Re: iTunes songs for .69 was Re: NLS digital books and future versions of
iTunes,iPod, iPhone?


Oh dear, LOL when the Beetles do finally come to iTunes, please please  
sometime soon, that's just it. I'm going to make Apple, Inc. really  
really rich. *smile*
I love them and have been very frustrated they are not on iTunes.
Really want "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band" album, is perhaps  
my favourite or one of my top favourites. :-)
Okay so this drunkenness with power doesn't go away. Good 'cuz y'know  
I LOVE IT!


Best Wishes
Jenny Kennedy (Howard)
blueskyes9112...@gmail.com
Olathe, Kansas USA

Join me on FaceBook:
Personal Profile - www.facebook.com/blueskyes
And feel free to join "The Blind Parents of FaceBook" group.  Search  
for it in groups or contact me for details.

Follow me via twitter using the username: ben_folds_fan




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