Re: ISpeak V0.1 released today
alex; what is "i speak? i would suggest you put a discription of what file is what on your /downloads directory and link to the respected files so those of us who don't know what an application is can read a short discription about it with best regards michael On Mar 8, 2009, at 10:23 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > > Hi, > > ISpeak V0.1 is available for free download. It is a very biginning > stage of the operation so don't expect very much. > > http://www.vipbc.org/downloads/ > > Thanks, > Alex, > > > > > Michael Babcock GW Hosting, Your Dedicated Home On The Web Phone: +1-888-272-3555, ext 4121 email: michael.babc...@gwhosting.net administrative e-mail: ad...@gwhosting.net url: http://gwhosting.net --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
RE: ISpeak V0.1 released today
-Mensaje original- De: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] En nombre de Alex Jurgensen Enviado el: lunes, 09 de marzo de 2009 7:23 Para: MacVisionaries Asunto: ISpeak V0.1 released today >Hi, Hello >ISpeak V0.1 is available for free download. It is a very biginning stage of the operation so don't expect very much. Does this version work with voiceOver? And, when I installed it, how can I uninstall for future versions? Thanks and regards Jonathan Chacón --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ISpeak V0.1 released today
Hi, Thanks, Indeed the Downloads folder is a repository if you will. There is a frontpage, but ISpeak hasn't been added to that frontpage yet. Thanks, Alex, On 8-Mar-09, at 11:59 PM, Michael Babcock wrote: > > alex; > what is "i speak? i would suggest you put a discription of what file > is what on your /downloads directory and link to the respected files > so those of us who don't know what an application is can read a short > discription about it > with best regards > michael > On Mar 8, 2009, at 10:23 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > >> >> Hi, >> >> ISpeak V0.1 is available for free download. It is a very biginning >> stage of the operation so don't expect very much. >> >> http://www.vipbc.org/downloads/ >> >> Thanks, >> Alex, >> >> >> >>> > > Michael Babcock > GW Hosting, Your Dedicated Home On The Web > Phone: +1-888-272-3555, ext 4121 > email: michael.babc...@gwhosting.net > administrative e-mail: ad...@gwhosting.net > url: http://gwhosting.net > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ISpeak V0.1 released today
Hi, This will not work with Voiceover yet until all the requirements in the ISpeak-0.1/Documentation/READMES/Things That Must Be Done.rtf file are complete. Thanks, Alex, On 9-Mar-09, at 12:16 AM, Jonathan Chacón wrote: > > > > -Mensaje original- > De: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > ] > En nombre de Alex Jurgensen > Enviado el: lunes, 09 de marzo de 2009 7:23 > Para: MacVisionaries > Asunto: ISpeak V0.1 released today > > >> Hi, > > Hello > >> ISpeak V0.1 is available for free download. It is a very biginning >> stage of > the operation so don't expect very much. > > Does this version work with voiceOver? > > And, when I installed it, how can I uninstall for future versions? > > Thanks and regards > Jonathan Chacón > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
Martin, you have certainly covered a number of areas and I am sure you have already been to Apple's accessibility site, http://www.apple.com/accessibility . You can bet this list will be a valuable resource for getting your questions answered. I will say that it is folks like yourself that can do the disabled community a great deal of good by taking on such a task and letting your counterparts know what you have done. We are a small market, but at the same time we are still a market. Apple has obviously realized this and has done well, I can't tell you the number of folks both with and without disabilities who have switched to the Mac. Actually the drummer in the band I am working with is just about to make the switch and one of our guitarists just made the switch and uses his Mac to record our material. So, let me virtually shake your hand and commend you for for your efforts. I did not see a URL or what software you develop. Thanks, On Mar 8, 2009, at 8:25 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: > Hi All, > > Let me introduce myself. My name is Martin Pilkington and I'm a > software developer on the Mac. I'm starting to do a big > accessibility push and I'm trying to get many developers to join me. > One of the key parts of this push is a pledge to make all my > applications 100% accessible by the end of 2009. I've defined 100% > accessible to mean 5 things: > > 1. The UI available to VoiceOver users should be as user friendly as > the visual UI. > 2. All UI elements should have titles and/or descriptions. > 3. All custom controls should provide full keyboard access. > 4. There should be a clear and logical order to navigating UI fields > with the keyboard. > 5. Every part of an application should be reachable without the mouse. > > Now I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who hasn't > got a disability, so I'm hoping everyone on this list could help me. > Are there any other major points you would say an application needs > to be 100% accessible to you? Are there any things you would like to > find in an application as a user with a visual impairment that > aren't part of the standard Mac accessibility tool? For example, an > option to get a full text description of the current window and how > to use it, at any point in the application > > Hopefully I can get a lot of other Mac developers to join me in my > pledge, some others have already come on board with the idea. But > getting the developers on board is just one piece of the puzzle. The > most important piece is understanding exactly what your current > problems and wishes are for accessibility in Mac apps so any > feedback you can give me is greatly appreciated. > > Thanks > > - > Martin Pilkington > Writer of Weird Symbols > pi...@mcubedsw.com > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
Chris, you make some good points, but self-voicing applications, no, that would realy be unnecessary. VoiceOver does a fine job of handling the text to speech function, I see no value in making applications self-voicing in most cases and nor is it typically a good investment for the return expected. Games, ok, that makes sense, but productivity applications, utilitites, and so forth, does not make a lot of sense. Developers just need to leverage what Apple provides as much as possible and then go from there. THe important thing is to determine the investment of resources and the anticipated return on that investment. You put in the features which are the most beneficial for the least cost. On Mar 8, 2009, at 8:37 PM, Chris Gilland wrote: > I think it would be cool to use the default voice set via system > preferences and make it where the program can be self voiceing if > needed. Also provide an option to turn on, or off the self voicing > feature, this way if a user wants to use voice over, great, if not, > he or she still can do what needs to be done. Also, I would make > your labels for the U I, very discriptive but yet maybe slightly > shorter for the interface that is viewed via a braille display. > This way the point is made but only the absolutely necessary amount > of cells are used, this way providing more room for other things, > such as the value of the U I control. I may also advise you write > your programs in cocoe as I hear that language is very very voice > over friendly. Finally maybe provide an option for the program to > be able to enable magnification in the program for low vision > usersw. Also maybe provide an option to turn the programs U I color > to high contrast. > > This way it even helps low vision users as well as us like myself > who are nearly compltely total. > > Chris. > > > Do you use Twitter? If so, then, I'd love! for you to follow me. > My twitter URL is: > > http://twitter.com/chris28210 > - Original Message - > From: Martin Pilkington > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 8:25 PM > Subject: Understanding Blind User's Needs > > Hi All, > > Let me introduce myself. My name is Martin Pilkington and I'm a > software developer on the Mac. I'm starting to do a big > accessibility push and I'm trying to get many developers to join me. > One of the key parts of this push is a pledge to make all my > applications 100% accessible by the end of 2009. I've defined 100% > accessible to mean 5 things: > > 1. The UI available to VoiceOver users should be as user friendly as > the visual UI. > 2. All UI elements should have titles and/or descriptions. > 3. All custom controls should provide full keyboard access. > 4. There should be a clear and logical order to navigating UI fields > with the keyboard. > 5. Every part of an application should be reachable without the mouse. > > Now I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who hasn't > got a disability, so I'm hoping everyone on this list could help me. > Are there any other major points you would say an application needs > to be 100% accessible to you? Are there any things you would like to > find in an application as a user with a visual impairment that > aren't part of the standard Mac accessibility tool? For example, an > option to get a full text description of the current window and how > to use it, at any point in the application > > Hopefully I can get a lot of other Mac developers to join me in my > pledge, some others have already come on board with the idea. But > getting the developers on board is just one piece of the puzzle. The > most important piece is understanding exactly what your current > problems and wishes are for accessibility in Mac apps so any > feedback you can give me is greatly appreciated. > > Thanks > > - > Martin Pilkington > Writer of Weird Symbols > pi...@mcubedsw.com > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
Ryan, excellent description and you are right on target, that was the point I was trying to make. :) On Mar 8, 2009, at 9:06 PM, Ryan Dour wrote: > As a great example, an app like Boxee would be amazing with self > voicing menus. Boxee is a media center app like FrontRow, but able > to do much more. However, that doesn't help any of us, as it doesn't > have hooks for Voiceover. The interface is not one that uses > standard windows and objects. It is more like the menus found in > video games, never the same twice and graphically intense. I believe > a self voicing approach is necessary in cases like these. In > standard apps, such as Skype, Pages, Safari, etc, Voiceover helps > unify what already should be considered common controls and > interfaces. A table in Skype looks very similar to a table in Mail, > and that's what makes a Mac app so appealing. When people follow the > look and feel of the OS, it helps cut down on the learning curve for > the user. > > Ryan > > On Mar 8, 2009, at 7:41 PM, Michael Babcock wrote: > >> very good points chris, i agree. Though the self voicing option >> isn't a 100% thing, in some apps it would truly be nice. >> mike >> >> On Mar 8, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Chris Gilland wrote: >> >>> I think it would be cool to use the default voice set via system >>> preferences and make it where the program can be self voiceing if >>> needed. Also provide an option to turn on, or off the self >>> voicing feature, this way if a user wants to use voice over, >>> great, if not, he or she still can do what needs to be done. >>> Also, I would make your labels for the U I, very discriptive but >>> yet maybe slightly shorter for the interface that is viewed via a >>> braille display. This way the point is made but only the >>> absolutely necessary amount of cells are used, this way providing >>> more room for other things, such as the value of the U I control. >>> I may also advise you write your programs in cocoe as I hear that >>> language is very very voice over friendly. Finally maybe provide >>> an option for the program to be able to enable magnification in >>> the program for low vision usersw. Also maybe provide an option >>> to turn the programs st. >>> >>> This way it even helps low vision users as well as us like myself >>> who are nearly compltely total. >>> >>> Chris. >>> >>> >>> Do you use Twitter? If so, then, I'd love! for you to follow me. >>> My twitter URL is: >>> >>> http://twitter.com/chris28210 >>> - Original Message - >>> From: Martin Pilkington >>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 8:25 PM >>> Subject: Understanding Blind User's Needs >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> Let me introduce myself. My name is Martin Pilkington and I'm a >>> software developer on the Mac. I'm sta bility push and I'm trying >>> to get many developers to join me. One of the key parts of this >>> push is a pledge to make all my applications 100% accessible by >>> the end of 2009. I've defined 100% accessible to mean 5 things: >>> >>> 1. The UI available to VoiceOver users should be as user friendly >>> as the visual UI. >>> 2. All UI elements should have titles and/or descriptions. >>> 3. All custom controls should provide full keyboard access. >>> 4. There should be a clear and logical order to navigating UI >>> fields with the keyboard. >>> 5. Every part of an application should be reachable without the >>> mouse. >>> >>> Now I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who hasn't >>> got a disability, so I'm hoping everyone on this list could help >>> me. Are there any other major points you would say an application >>> needs to be 100% accessible to you? Are there any things you would >>> like to find in an application as a user with a visual impairme e >>> standard Mac accessibility tool? For example, an option to get a >>> full text description of the current window and how to use it, at >>> any point in the application >>> >>> Hopefully I can get a lot of other Mac developers to join me in my >>> pledge, some others have already come on board with the idea. But >>> getting the developers on board is just one piece of the puzzle. >>> The most important piece is understanding exactly what your >>> current problems and wishes are for accessibility in Mac apps so >>> any feedback you can give me is greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> - >>> Martin Pilkington >>> Writer of Weird Symbols >>> pi...@mcubedsw.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ace; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "> >>> Michael Babcock >>> GW Hosting, Your Dedicated Home On The Web >>> Phone: +1-888-272-3555, ext 4121 >>> email: michael.babc...@gwhosting.net >>> administrative e-mail: ad...@gwhosting.net >>> url: http://gwhosting.net >> >> >> >> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscrib
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
Chris, although I disagree with you, can you possibly provide a reason why you would prefer a self-voicing application for a program such as Safari? Where is the advantage? On Mar 8, 2009, at 9:26 PM, Chris Gilland wrote: > By self voicing I mean, have it so that with voice over not running > the program would still speak right out of the box. In other words, > give the user the option of using voice over, or! being able to rely > on speech just within the program itself. Kind a like what happens > with the clock being self voicing upon the hr half hr or quarter, if > you set that up in universal access. Hince: you don't need vo > running for that to work. > > Chris. > : > > http://twitter.com/chris28210 > - Original Message - > From: Martin Pilkington > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 9:09 PM > Subject: Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs > > Hi Chris, > > I'm not 100% sure whether it is possible to detect whether the user > is using a braille display or not, but I'll definitely look into it. > If OS X doesn't allow me to give different descriptions to braille > devices I'll try and get in touch with developers at Apple to see if > they can add it in a future version. As for the self voicing > feature, I'm a little unsure what you mean. Could you give an > example of how it would be used and what it would do? > > My applications are already in Cocoa and it is indeed fairly easy to > make them voice over friendly, though the options to do this aren't > really front and centre so they can often be forgotten. Of course > not everything is quite as easy to make accessible, especially as I > use custom controls in places so these will require more work. > > As for magnification and high contrast modes, do the system wide > zoom and invert colours features not solve that problem? Some things > such as making text in some areas bigger and allowing users to > customise colours to give them a higher contrast are relatively > easy, but to do these for everything in an application would be > extremely difficult. These are more system wide features Apple would > need to do themselves in order to have them done right. > > Thanks for your feedback! > > - > Martin Pilkington > Writer of Weird Symbols > pi...@mcubedsw.com > > > On 9 Mar 2009, at 12:37 am, Chris Gilland wrote: > >> I think it would be cool to use the default voice set via system >> preferences and make it where the program can be self voiceing if >> needed. Also provide an option to turn on, or off the self voicing >> feature, this way if a user wants to use voice over, great, if not, >> he or she still can do what needs to be done. Also, I would make >> your labels for the U I, very discriptive but yet maybe slightly >> shorter for the interface that is viewed via a braille display. >> This way the point is made but only the absolutely necessary amount >> of cells are used, this way providing more room for other things, >> such as the value of the U I control. I may also advise you write >> your programs in cocoe as I hear that language is very very voice >> over friendly. Finally maybe provide an option for the program to >> be able to enable magnification in the program for low vision >> usersw. Also maybe provide an option to turn the programs U I >> color to high contrast. >> >> This way it even helps low vision users as well as us like myself >> who are nearly compltely total. >> >> Chris. >> > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
Hi, Excuse me here a moment, but what do we want? Do we want a specially made program for the blind or an application that both blind and sighted people alike can use without us stepping on eachothers toes? You may think this question is silly or such, but i think it's relevant since what i've heard is more or less about a specially made program for the blind. My advise maybe is provoking i don't know, but here goes: Don't do anything special. Just make sure all controls are made available to the Apple Accessibility framework, and as i understand it, it can be done by writing the app in Cocoa. If the logic of the controls is very bad, then sure it could use some fixing, but otherwise just make all controls visible to the accessibility framework already in place. /Krister 9 mar 2009 kl. 01.41 skrev Michael Babcock: > very good points chris, i agree. Though the self voicing option > isn't a 100% thing, in some apps it would truly be nice. > mike > > On Mar 8, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Chris Gilland wrote: > >> I think it would be cool to use the default voice set via system >> preferences and make it where the program can be self voiceing if >> needed. Also provide an option to turn on, or off the self voicing >> feature, this way if a user wants to use voice over, great, if not, >> he or she still can do what needs to be done. Also, I would make >> your labels for the U I, very discriptive but yet maybe slightly >> shorter for the interface that is viewed via a braille display. >> This way the point is made but only the absolutely necessary amount >> of cells are used, this way providing more room for other things, >> such as the value of the U I control. I may also advise you write >> your programs in cocoe as I hear that language is very very voice >> over friendly. Finally maybe provide an option for the program to >> be able to enable magnification in the program for low vision >> usersw. Also maybe provide an option to turn the programs st. >> >> This way it even helps low vision users as well as us like myself >> who are nearly compltely total. >> >> Chris. >> >> >> Do you use Twitter? If so, then, I'd love! for you to follow me. >> My twitter URL is: >> >> http://twitter.com/chris28210 >> - Original Message - >> From: Martin Pilkington >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 8:25 PM >> Subject: Understanding Blind User's Needs >> >> Hi All, >> >> Let me introduce myself. My name is Martin Pilkington and I'm a >> software developer on the Mac. I'm sta bility push and I'm trying >> to get many developers to join me. One of the key parts of this >> push is a pledge to make all my applications 100% accessible by the >> end of 2009. I've defined 100% accessible to mean 5 things: >> >> 1. The UI available to VoiceOver users should be as user friendly >> as the visual UI. >> 2. All UI elements should have titles and/or descriptions. >> 3. All custom controls should provide full keyboard access. >> 4. There should be a clear and logical order to navigating UI >> fields with the keyboard. >> 5. Every part of an application should be reachable without the >> mouse. >> >> Now I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who hasn't >> got a disability, so I'm hoping everyone on this list could help >> me. Are there any other major points you would say an application >> needs to be 100% accessible to you? Are there any things you would >> like to find in an application as a user with a visual impairme e >> standard Mac accessibility tool? For example, an option to get a >> full text description of the current window and how to use it, at >> any point in the application >> >> Hopefully I can get a lot of other Mac developers to join me in my >> pledge, some others have already come on board with the idea. But >> getting the developers on board is just one piece of the puzzle. >> The most important piece is understanding exactly what your current >> problems and wishes are for accessibility in Mac apps so any >> feedback you can give me is greatly appreciated. >> >> Thanks >> >> - >> Martin Pilkington >> Writer of Weird Symbols >> pi...@mcubedsw.com >> >> >> >> >> ace; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "> >> Michael Babcock >> GW Hosting, Your Dedicated Home On The Web >> Phone: +1-888-272-3555, ext 4121 >> email: michael.babc...@gwhosting.net >> administrative e-mail: ad...@gwhosting.net >> url: http://gwhosting.net > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~-
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
And why would we want that? Don't you trust in Voiceover to do what a screen reader is supposed to do? /Krister 9 mar 2009 kl. 02.26 skrev Chris Gilland: > By self voicing I mean, have it so that with voice over not running > the program would still speak right out of the box. In other words, > give the user the option of using voice over, or! being able to rely > on speech just within the program itself. Kind a like what happens > with the clock being self voicing upon the hr half hr or quarter, if > you set that up in universal access. Hince: you don't need vo > running for that to work. > > Chris. > > Do you use Twitter? If so, then, I'd love! for you to follow me. > My twitter URL is: > > http://twitter.com/chris28210 > - Original Message - > From: Martin Pilkington > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 9:09 PM > Subject: Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs > > Hi Chris, > > I'm not 100% sure whether it is possible to detect whether the user > is using a braille display or not, but I'll definitely look into it. > If OS X doesn't allow me to give different descriptions to braille > devices I'll try and get in touch with developers at Apple to see if > they can add it in a future version. As for the self voicing > feature, I'm a little unsure what you mean. Could you give an > example of how it would be used and what it would do? > > My applications are already in Cocoa and it is indeed fairly easy to > make them voice over friendly, though the options to do this aren't > really front and centre so they can often be forgotten. Of course > not everything is quite as easy to make accessible, especially as I > use custom controls in places so these will require more work. > > As for magnification and high contrast modes, do the system wide > zoom and invert colours features not solve that problem? Some things > such as making text in some areas bigger and allowing users to > customise colours to give them a higher contrast are relatively > easy, but to do these for everything in an application would be > extremely difficult. These are more system wide features Apple would > need to do themselves in order to have them done right. > > Thanks for your feedback! > > - > Martin Pilkington > Writer of Weird Symbols > pi...@mcubedsw.com > > > On 9 Mar 2009, at 12:37 am, Chris Gilland wrote: > >> I think it would be cool to use the default voice set via system >> preferences and make it where the program can be self voiceing if >> needed. Also provide an option to turn on, or off the self voicing >> feature, this way if a user wants to use voice over, great, if not, >> he or she still can do what needs to be done. Also, I would make >> your labels for the U I, very discriptive but yet maybe slightly >> shorter for the interface that is viewed via a braille display. >> This way the point is made but only the absolutely necessary amount >> of cells are used, this way providing more room for other things, >> such as the value of the U I control. I may also advise you write >> your programs in cocoe as I hear that language is very very voice >> over friendly. Finally maybe provide an option for the program to >> be able to enable magnification in the program for low vision >> usersw. Also maybe provide an option to turn the programs U I >> color to high contrast. >> >> This way it even helps low vision users as well as us like myself >> who are nearly compltely total. >> >> Chris. >> > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
Hi Krister I'm in full agreement here. Let's not forget what makes the Mac platform so awesome, the fact that we need not have any additional program other than Voiceover to provide accessibility, and the fact that Voiceover is right there for developers to test and with which they can make their application compatible. I think the goals Martin has already set out are exactly what is needed in 99.99% of all applications for good accessibility, and I also must applaud and thank him for his willingness to do this and for the example he will set. The only times self-voicing should be used is if there is no way at all to hook the application into Voiceover (very rare), or in the case of programs that have a lot of background events that need to be reported. It is common practice on the Mac to enable the speaking of these background events, e.g. a contact signing on or off in an instant messaging application. This isn't implemented for the sake of the blind, however, a lot of people take advantage of these event notifications in some form or another, be they spoken or just a sound effect. On Mar 9, 2009, at 05:58, Krister Ekstrom wrote: > > Hi, > Excuse me here a moment, but what do we want? Do we want a specially > made program for the blind or an application that both blind and > sighted people alike can use without us stepping on eachothers toes? > You may think this question is silly or such, but i think it's > relevant since what i've heard is more or less about a specially made > program for the blind. My advise maybe is provoking i don't know, but > here goes: Don't do anything special. Just make sure all controls are > made available to the Apple Accessibility framework, and as i > understand it, it can be done by writing the app in Cocoa. If the > logic of the controls is very bad, then sure it could use some fixing, > but otherwise just make all controls visible to the accessibility > framework already in place. > /Krister > > > 9 mar 2009 kl. 01.41 skrev Michael Babcock: > >> very good points chris, i agree. Though the self voicing option >> isn't a 100% thing, in some apps it would truly be nice. >> mike >> >> On Mar 8, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Chris Gilland wrote: >> >>> I think it would be cool to use the default voice set via system >>> preferences and make it where the program can be self voiceing if >>> needed. Also provide an option to turn on, or off the self voicing >>> feature, this way if a user wants to use voice over, great, if not, >>> he or she still can do what needs to be done. Also, I would make >>> your labels for the U I, very discriptive but yet maybe slightly >>> shorter for the interface that is viewed via a braille display. >>> This way the point is made but only the absolutely necessary amount >>> of cells are used, this way providing more room for other things, >>> such as the value of the U I control. I may also advise you write >>> your programs in cocoe as I hear that language is very very voice >>> over friendly. Finally maybe provide an option for the program to >>> be able to enable magnification in the program for low vision >>> usersw. Also maybe provide an option to turn the programs st. >>> >>> This way it even helps low vision users as well as us like myself >>> who are nearly compltely total. >>> >>> Chris. >>> >>> >>> Do you use Twitter? If so, then, I'd love! for you to follow me. >>> My twitter URL is: >>> >>> http://twitter.com/chris28210 >>> - Original Message - >>> From: Martin Pilkington >>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 8:25 PM >>> Subject: Understanding Blind User's Needs >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> Let me introduce myself. My name is Martin Pilkington and I'm a >>> software developer on the Mac. I'm sta bility push and I'm trying >>> to get many developers to join me. One of the key parts of this >>> push is a pledge to make all my applications 100% accessible by the >>> end of 2009. I've defined 100% accessible to mean 5 things: >>> >>> 1. The UI available to VoiceOver users should be as user friendly >>> as the visual UI. >>> 2. All UI elements should have titles and/or descriptions. >>> 3. All custom controls should provide full keyboard access. >>> 4. There should be a clear and logical order to navigating UI >>> fields with the keyboard. >>> 5. Every part of an application should be reachable without the >>> mouse. >>> >>> Now I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who hasn't >>> got a disability, so I'm hoping everyone on this list could help >>> me. Are there any other major points you would say an application >>> needs to be 100% accessible to you? Are there any things you would >>> like to find in an application as a user with a visual impairme e >>> standard Mac accessibility tool? For example, an option to get a >>> full text description of the current window and how to use it, at >>> any point in the application >>> >>> Hopefully I can get a lot of other
Re: mail, how to get to the other end of my list of messages
This frustrated me for a long while, and when I got it to work I was happy, so: Be sure to interact with the messages table. Now, to get to the top of the list, press VO Shift Function left arrow. Replace with right arrow for the end of the list. Keep in mind, this will take you to the *VERY* first and last entry in the table, so you'll have to navigate appropriately to see message information. HTH. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ISpeak V0.1 released today
Hi alex. So lets have it.:) what needs too be done is the perl interface and the error while compiling ? the next lines kinda gives it self, that is perfectly acceptable for me but would it be for jane on 14 years old ? not likely. sandis-macbook-air:ISpeak-0.1 sandi$ ./installer.sh Password: checking for gcc... no checking for cc... no checking for cc... no checking for cl... no configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH See `config.log' for more details. sudo: make: command not found sudo: make: command not found sandis-macbook-air:ISpeak-0.1 sandi$ I am not being sarcastic at all just trying too find out what needs too be done . Another thing that strikes me is why did you not use the espeak already made for mac ? if you prefer mail me off list this could very fast get pretty hary /sandi :) On Mar 9, 2009, at 12:30 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > > Hi, > > This will not work with Voiceover yet until all the requirements in > the ISpeak-0.1/Documentation/READMES/Things That Must Be Done.rtf file > are complete. > > Thanks, > Alex, > > > On 9-Mar-09, at 12:16 AM, Jonathan Chacón wrote: > >> >> >> >> -Mensaje original- >> De: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> ] >> En nombre de Alex Jurgensen >> Enviado el: lunes, 09 de marzo de 2009 7:23 >> Para: MacVisionaries >> Asunto: ISpeak V0.1 released today >> >> >>> Hi, >> >> Hello >> >>> ISpeak V0.1 is available for free download. It is a very biginning >>> stage of >> the operation so don't expect very much. >> >> Does this version work with voiceOver? >> >> And, when I installed it, how can I uninstall for future versions? >> >> Thanks and regards >> Jonathan Chacón >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
El 08/03/2009, a las 23:34, David Poehlman escribió: > > look at firevox to understand this. Or katie player. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
ISpeak V0.2 released today
Hi, Sandy et al, As the subject inplies the V0.2 version of ISpeak is released with an uninstaller and a better installer. http://www.vipbc.org/downloads/ISpeak-0.2.zip Since this is a developement build I am assuming you have the Developer tools installed from Apple. All of my systems have it installed so I overlooked mentioning it in the Readme. As to why I did not use the currently available eSpeak for Mac, is because it is out of date. Thanks, Alex, --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ISpeak V0.2 released today
WHAT IS THIS I SPEAK On 9 Mar 2009, at 16:26, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > > Hi, > Sandy et al, > > As the subject inplies the V0.2 version of ISpeak is released with an > uninstaller and a better installer. > > http://www.vipbc.org/downloads/ISpeak-0.2.zip > > Since this is a developement build I am assuming you have the > Developer tools installed from Apple. All of my systems have it > installed so I overlooked mentioning it in the Readme. > > As to why I did not use the currently available eSpeak for Mac, is > because it is out of date. > > Thanks, > Alex, > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ISpeak V0.2 released today
Hi, William et al, ISpeak is the effort to port three Open-Source Speech Engines to the Mac as native voices. Festival, Flight, and eSpeak Thanks, Alex, On 9-Mar-09, at 9:29 AM, william lomas wrote: > > WHAT IS THIS I SPEAK > > On 9 Mar 2009, at 16:26, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > >> >> Hi, >> Sandy et al, >> >> As the subject inplies the V0.2 version of ISpeak is released with an >> uninstaller and a better installer. >> >> http://www.vipbc.org/downloads/ISpeak-0.2.zip >> >> Since this is a developement build I am assuming you have the >> Developer tools installed from Apple. All of my systems have it >> installed so I overlooked mentioning it in the Readme. >> >> As to why I did not use the currently available eSpeak for Mac, is >> because it is out of date. >> >> Thanks, >> Alex, >> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Naming Compitition for new Voices
Hi, in porting all these eSpeak Voices and all to the Mac we at VIPBC.org want to give you the chance to name them. We need at least one male and one female name for each language eSpeak/Festival/Flight support. Please send submitions to with "voicemail voices" in the subject. Enjoy, Alex, --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ISpeak V0.2 released today
Yo. But but i did not ... it will get changed though.Also my mail came out quite abit more cold then i intented it sorry bout that :) Alex in other words im all for it. It is a good reason too reinstall the lil-mini. /sandy:) On Mar 9, 2009, at 9:26 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > > Hi, > Sandy et al, > > As the subject inplies the V0.2 version of ISpeak is released with an > uninstaller and a better installer. > > http://www.vipbc.org/downloads/ISpeak-0.2.zip > > Since this is a developement build I am assuming you have the > Developer tools installed from Apple. All of my systems have it > installed so I overlooked mentioning it in the Readme. > > As to why I did not use the currently available eSpeak for Mac, is > because it is out of date. > > Thanks, > Alex, > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Naming Compitition for new Voices
hey would it be smart too pul our heads together at irc.freenode.net:#ispeak ? /sandi On Mar 9, 2009, at 9:36 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > > Hi, > > in porting all these eSpeak Voices and all to the Mac we at VIPBC.org > want to give you the chance to name them. We need at least one male > and one female name for each language eSpeak/Festival/Flight support. > > Please send submitions to with "voicemail > voices" in the subject. > > > Enjoy, > Alex, > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ISpeak V0.2 released today
I must have missed something, but what is Ispeak? On Mar 9, 2009, at 12:26 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > > Hi, > Sandy et al, > > As the subject inplies the V0.2 version of ISpeak is released with an > uninstaller and a better installer. > > http://www.vipbc.org/downloads/ISpeak-0.2.zip > > Since this is a developement build I am assuming you have the > Developer tools installed from Apple. All of my systems have it > installed so I overlooked mentioning it in the Readme. > > As to why I did not use the currently available eSpeak for Mac, is > because it is out of date. > > Thanks, > Alex, > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Never mind my last message.
On Mar 9, 2009, at 12:33 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > > Hi, > > William et al, > > ISpeak is the effort to port three Open-Source Speech Engines to the > Mac as native voices. > > Festival, Flight, and eSpeak > > Thanks, > Alex, > > > On 9-Mar-09, at 9:29 AM, william lomas wrote: > >> >> WHAT IS THIS I SPEAK >> >> On 9 Mar 2009, at 16:26, Alex Jurgensen wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi, >>> Sandy et al, >>> >>> As the subject inplies the V0.2 version of ISpeak is released with >>> an >>> uninstaller and a better installer. >>> >>> http://www.vipbc.org/downloads/ISpeak-0.2.zip >>> >>> Since this is a developement build I am assuming you have the >>> Developer tools installed from Apple. All of my systems have it >>> installed so I overlooked mentioning it in the Readme. >>> >>> As to why I did not use the currently available eSpeak for Mac, is >>> because it is out of date. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Alex, >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: mail, how to get to the other end of my list of messages
Thank you all for your help with my several questions. Your answers have been most helpful. Jason On Mar 9, 2009, at 8:07 AM, Mark Baxter wrote: > > This frustrated me for a long while, and when I got it to work I was > happy, so: Be sure to interact with the messages table. Now, to get > to the top of the list, press VO Shift Function left arrow. Replace > with right arrow for the end of the list. Keep in mind, this will > take you to the *VERY* first and last entry in the table, so you'll > have to navigate appropriately to see message information. > HTH. > > > Mark BurningHawk > > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com > My home page: > http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ISpeak V0.1 released today
will this work with vo yet? On Mar 9, 2009, at 2:23 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > > Hi, > > ISpeak V0.1 is available for free download. It is a very biginning > stage of the operation so don't expect very much. > > http://www.vipbc.org/downloads/ > > Thanks, > Alex, > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
ISpeak IRC Channel
Hi, Our channel is #eSpeak on irc.freenode.net. Thanks, Alex, --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ISpeak V0.1 released today
Hi, V0.2 will once everything in documentation/readmes/things that must be done.rtf are completed. Thanks, Alex, On 9-Mar-09, at 10:07 AM, Brandon Misch wrote: > > will this work with vo yet? > > On Mar 9, 2009, at 2:23 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > >> >> Hi, >> >> ISpeak V0.1 is available for free download. It is a very biginning >> stage of the operation so don't expect very much. >> >> http://www.vipbc.org/downloads/ >> >> Thanks, >> Alex, >> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ISpeak V0.1 released today
o ok. what are the differents between v1 and v2 or 0.1 and 0.2 besides the file sizes? On Mar 9, 2009, at 3:30 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > > Hi, > > This will not work with Voiceover yet until all the requirements in > the ISpeak-0.1/Documentation/READMES/Things That Must Be Done.rtf file > are complete. > > Thanks, > Alex, > > > On 9-Mar-09, at 12:16 AM, Jonathan Chacón wrote: > >> >> >> >> -Mensaje original- >> De: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> ] >> En nombre de Alex Jurgensen >> Enviado el: lunes, 09 de marzo de 2009 7:23 >> Para: MacVisionaries >> Asunto: ISpeak V0.1 released today >> >> >>> Hi, >> >> Hello >> >>> ISpeak V0.1 is available for free download. It is a very biginning >>> stage of >> the operation so don't expect very much. >> >> Does this version work with voiceOver? >> >> And, when I installed it, how can I uninstall for future versions? >> >> Thanks and regards >> Jonathan Chacón >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ISpeak V0.1 released today
Hi, The 0.2 includes an uninstaller and improved installer. Thanks, Alex, On 9-Mar-09, at 10:17 AM, Brandon Misch wrote: > > o ok. what are the differents between v1 and v2 or 0.1 and 0.2 besides > the file sizes? > > On Mar 9, 2009, at 3:30 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > >> >> Hi, >> >> This will not work with Voiceover yet until all the requirements in >> the ISpeak-0.1/Documentation/READMES/Things That Must Be Done.rtf >> file >> are complete. >> >> Thanks, >> Alex, >> >> >> On 9-Mar-09, at 12:16 AM, Jonathan Chacón wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> -Mensaje original- >>> De: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> ] >>> En nombre de Alex Jurgensen >>> Enviado el: lunes, 09 de marzo de 2009 7:23 >>> Para: MacVisionaries >>> Asunto: ISpeak V0.1 released today >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Hello >>> ISpeak V0.1 is available for free download. It is a very biginning stage of >>> the operation so don't expect very much. >>> >>> Does this version work with voiceOver? >>> >>> And, when I installed it, how can I uninstall for future versions? >>> >>> Thanks and regards >>> Jonathan Chacón >>> >>> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
text to speach
Hi all, I am looking for a text to speech program that has a mark up langwitch. I want to embed commands for voice, rate, etc. Thank you for any help. louie louiem...@wavecable.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: text to speach
You're inluck! apple have that already. google speech manaer and see what comes up. sandi On Mar 9, 2009, at 10:45 AM, louie wrote: > > Hi all, > I am looking for a text to speech program that has a mark up > langwitch. I want to embed commands for voice, rate, etc. > Thank you for any help. > > louie > louiem...@wavecable.com > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: using JAWS on my Mac
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I am sad to say though that I will be removing my Windows partition. I have JAWS 8 and my graphics processor is too new to run my version of JAWS. I have no ability to upgrade JAWS so I guess I'll just have to figure out how to uses my Mac for everything. Alena Blog: http://blind-gal.blogspot.com david poehlman wrote: > set jaws to laptop mode nd use the capslock. that is what I am doing and > others as well. > > - Original Message - > From: > To: "MacVisionaries" > Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 3:06 PM > Subject: using JAWS on my Mac > > > > I have installed Windows on my Mac using boot camp. I am wondering if > anyone knows the keyboard shortcuts for JAWS using the mac keyboard. > For instance, how do I do any commands that use the "insert" key? > Thanks > > Alena --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
flash and VO
One of the things that I have noticed since I started using VO is that it doesn't recognize flash players. Does anyone know if there is any plan to make VO accessible with flash? It is really frustrating when I can't activate a movie on a website because it's in a flash player. Thanks. Alena Blog: http://blind-gal.blogspot.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: text to speach
Hi Louie, louie wrote: > I am looking for a text to speech program that has a mark up > langwitch. I want to embed commands for voice, rate, etc. > There's an existing mark up language for controlling atributes for Apple's text to speech. The easy way to do this is to use Automator, which allows you to select the voice in the "Text to Audio" action of the workflow. However, you'll find a link to the document that gives instructions on how to embed commands for all the speech attributes in a forwarded reply from Apple's accessibility team that Jane posted to the list a little over a year ago. Here's the archived post (in case you want to read down the thread with the Control-n access key for Safari; to get to the earlier thread that prompted that post, use Control-b twice to go back chronologically, then you'll be able to read a post that describes working with text-to-speech in Automator. You can press Control-p three times to go up through previous posts in the thread and start from the beginning of the thread, then use Control-n to read down the discussion). I'll excerpt the relevant bit of the post: http://www.mail-archive.com/disc...@macvisionaries.com/msg24218.html (Fwd: Adjusting Say Speech in Terminal) Check out this site for information on how to embed commands into the text to speed it up or change other attributes: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/SpeechSynthesisProgrammingGuide/index.html Embedded commands are described in the section titled "Techniques for Customizing Synthesized Speech" - > "Use Embedded Speech Commands to Fine-Tune Spoken Output. For example, to set the rate of the spoken text to 300 words per minute use something like: "[[rate 300]] This text should be spoken fast." The above specification of speech rate within two sets of embedded brackets is the way that Darcy got faster text-to-speech working in his Screenless Switchers podcast. It's also the basis of a post that Doug Lee made to the list on how to speed up Skype VoiceOver notifications: http://www.mail-archive.com/disc...@macvisionaries.com/msg40196.html For a concrete example of how this would work with Automator, I'm pasting in below a reply I made to a related post on Gordon Smith's mac-access list (for more info on this, see: http://www.tft-bbs.com/mailing-lists.html and to subscribe, send an email to: mac-access-subscr...@tft-bbs.com ) Hope this helps. Cheers, Esther On Feb 10, 2009 GK wrote: > Some way back I thought I recalled mention of a script that could be > used to take a text file and using the speech save it as an mp3 file. > > I would be very grateful if somebody could point me to the u.r.l. > where said script can be downloaded. I have notes about this somewhere, but in the meantime, here are two alternatives: • Apple has a demo Automator workflow that converts text from your clipboard to an audio clip in iTunes. You could download this and modify it to work with a selected TextEdit file instead of the clipboard, and you could change the setting from AAC encoding to mp3. The Apple URL is: http://automator.us/leopard/examples/ex07/index.html and you can get the workflow from the page's download link. It's actually easier to check the components out under Automator. It's made up of 4 steps: 1. Get Contents from Clipboard 2. Text to Audio File 3. Import Audio Files 4. Add Songs to Playlist You can hear these listed if you VO-right to the Workflow area of Automator, interact, and VO-down arrow through the list once you've downloaded it. To run this as is, download the workflow and open it. Select some text and copy to clipboard with Command-C. Then do a Command-R to run the workflow. As it stands, the workflow creates an AAC file called "Spoken Text" that it move into your iTunes library. You can change the format to MP3 by interacting with the "Import Audio Files" action of the Workflow and VO-right to the popup button that specifies using the "AAC encoder" and setting this to "MP3 encoder". There's a trick to getting text to speech to record this at a faster rate -- put the following characters at the beginning of the file: [[rate 300]] That's two left brackets (where left bracket is the key to the right of the "p" key), the word "rate", a space, and a number which is the words per minute, then two right brackets. In the example used above, the rate is 300 words per minute. What you really want to do is replace the "Get Contents from Clipboard" action with "Get Contents of TextEdit Document", but this is a little more complicated, since actions get added to the end of the workflow. You'd have to first select the new action by 1. Navigating (VO-right) to the Actions Library, and selecting "Text" (press "t") 2. Navigate (VO-right) to the Actions table and select "Get Contents of TextEdit Document" (press "g") 3. Add this to the wor
Re: ISpeak V0.2 released today
what about the mbrola voices or however you spell it? On Mar 9, 2009, at 12:33 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > > Hi, > > William et al, > > ISpeak is the effort to port three Open-Source Speech Engines to the > Mac as native voices. > > Festival, Flight, and eSpeak > > Thanks, > Alex, > > > On 9-Mar-09, at 9:29 AM, william lomas wrote: > >> >> WHAT IS THIS I SPEAK >> >> On 9 Mar 2009, at 16:26, Alex Jurgensen wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi, >>> Sandy et al, >>> >>> As the subject inplies the V0.2 version of ISpeak is released with >>> an >>> uninstaller and a better installer. >>> >>> http://www.vipbc.org/downloads/ISpeak-0.2.zip >>> >>> Since this is a developement build I am assuming you have the >>> Developer tools installed from Apple. All of my systems have it >>> installed so I overlooked mentioning it in the Readme. >>> >>> As to why I did not use the currently available eSpeak for Mac, is >>> because it is out of date. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Alex, >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ISpeak V0.1 released today
that's good. how are things going now? and will the next version have an installer where the terminal isn't needed? On Mar 9, 2009, at 1:10 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > > Hi, > > V0.2 will once everything in documentation/readmes/things that must be > done.rtf are completed. > > Thanks, > Alex, > > > On 9-Mar-09, at 10:07 AM, Brandon Misch wrote: > >> >> will this work with vo yet? >> >> On Mar 9, 2009, at 2:23 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> ISpeak V0.1 is available for free download. It is a very biginning >>> stage of the operation so don't expect very much. >>> >>> http://www.vipbc.org/downloads/ >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Alex, >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: flash and VO
I have written to accessibil...@apple.com, and they said to write to Adobe and I did so. I haven't heard from Adobe yet; I will give them a couple days, and if I don't hear from them, I will write them again. But the accessibility is not with Apple, but rather, Adobe, since it is their player, and if Adobe wants their products to user-friendly for everyone, they should so indicate. I have a home business which uses the Flash player, but I can't use it; I have to refer my customers to my wife, who is a business partner, and she can show demonstrations to our customers. Richie Gardenhire, Anchorage, Alaska. On Mar 9, 2009, at 10:55 AM, alena.roberts2...@gmail.com wrote: > > One of the things that I have noticed since I started using VO is that > it doesn't recognize flash players. Does anyone know if there is any > plan to make VO accessible with flash? It is really frustrating when > I can't activate a movie on a website because it's in a flash player. > Thanks. > > Alena > Blog: http://blind-gal.blogspot.com > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ISpeak V0.1 released today
o ok. since .2 can't work with vo yet, what does it work with for the moment? On Mar 9, 2009, at 1:27 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > > Hi, > > The 0.2 includes an uninstaller and improved installer. > > Thanks, > Alex, > > > On 9-Mar-09, at 10:17 AM, Brandon Misch wrote: > >> >> o ok. what are the differents between v1 and v2 or 0.1 and 0.2 >> besides >> the file sizes? >> >> On Mar 9, 2009, at 3:30 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> This will not work with Voiceover yet until all the requirements in >>> the ISpeak-0.1/Documentation/READMES/Things That Must Be Done.rtf >>> file >>> are complete. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Alex, >>> >>> >>> On 9-Mar-09, at 12:16 AM, Jonathan Chacón wrote: >>> -Mensaje original- De: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ] En nombre de Alex Jurgensen Enviado el: lunes, 09 de marzo de 2009 7:23 Para: MacVisionaries Asunto: ISpeak V0.1 released today > Hi, Hello > ISpeak V0.1 is available for free download. It is a very biginning > stage of the operation so don't expect very much. Does this version work with voiceOver? And, when I installed it, how can I uninstall for future versions? Thanks and regards Jonathan Chacón > >>> >>> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ISpeak V0.1 released today
Hi, It works with the Command-Line. Yes Moterolla voices will be supported. Thanks, Alex, On 9-Mar-09, at 12:27 PM, Brandon Misch wrote: > > o ok. since .2 can't work with vo yet, what does it work with for the > moment? > > On Mar 9, 2009, at 1:27 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > >> >> Hi, >> >> The 0.2 includes an uninstaller and improved installer. >> >> Thanks, >> Alex, >> >> >> On 9-Mar-09, at 10:17 AM, Brandon Misch wrote: >> >>> >>> o ok. what are the differents between v1 and v2 or 0.1 and 0.2 >>> besides >>> the file sizes? >>> >>> On Mar 9, 2009, at 3:30 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: >>> Hi, This will not work with Voiceover yet until all the requirements in the ISpeak-0.1/Documentation/READMES/Things That Must Be Done.rtf file are complete. Thanks, Alex, On 9-Mar-09, at 12:16 AM, Jonathan Chacón wrote: > > > > -Mensaje original- > De: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > ] > En nombre de Alex Jurgensen > Enviado el: lunes, 09 de marzo de 2009 7:23 > Para: MacVisionaries > Asunto: ISpeak V0.1 released today > > >> Hi, > > Hello > >> ISpeak V0.1 is available for free download. It is a very >> biginning >> stage of > the operation so don't expect very much. > > Does this version work with voiceOver? > > And, when I installed it, how can I uninstall for future versions? > > Thanks and regards > Jonathan Chacón > > >> > >>> >>> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: using JAWS on my Mac
Alena, Have you tried using System Access to Go? www.satogo.com. It has no video intercept issues, and it should work with whatever Windows operating you have installed. Richie Gardenhire, anchorage, Alaska. On Mar 9, 2009, at 10:52 AM, alena.roberts2...@gmail.com wrote: > > Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I am sad to say though that I > will be removing my Windows partition. I have JAWS 8 and my graphics > processor is too new to run my version of JAWS. I have no ability to > upgrade JAWS so I guess I'll just have to figure out how to uses my > Mac for everything. > > Alena > Blog: http://blind-gal.blogspot.com > > > david poehlman wrote: >> set jaws to laptop mode nd use the capslock. that is what I am >> doing and >> others as well. >> >> - Original Message - >> From: >> To: "MacVisionaries" >> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 3:06 PM >> Subject: using JAWS on my Mac >> >> >> >> I have installed Windows on my Mac using boot camp. I am wondering if >> anyone knows the keyboard shortcuts for JAWS using the mac keyboard. >> For instance, how do I do any commands that use the "insert" key? >> Thanks >> >> Alena > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ISpeak V0.1 released today
o cool. can't wait to see it working with vo. will it be completed on the 17th as you said a few days ago? On Mar 9, 2009, at 3:33 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > > Hi, > > It works with the Command-Line. Yes Moterolla voices will be > supported. > > Thanks, > Alex, > > > On 9-Mar-09, at 12:27 PM, Brandon Misch wrote: > >> >> o ok. since .2 can't work with vo yet, what does it work with for the >> moment? >> >> On Mar 9, 2009, at 1:27 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> The 0.2 includes an uninstaller and improved installer. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Alex, >>> >>> >>> On 9-Mar-09, at 10:17 AM, Brandon Misch wrote: >>> o ok. what are the differents between v1 and v2 or 0.1 and 0.2 besides the file sizes? On Mar 9, 2009, at 3:30 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > > Hi, > > This will not work with Voiceover yet until all the requirements > in > the ISpeak-0.1/Documentation/READMES/Things That Must Be Done.rtf > file > are complete. > > Thanks, > Alex, > > > On 9-Mar-09, at 12:16 AM, Jonathan Chacón wrote: > >> >> >> >> -Mensaje original- >> De: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> ] >> En nombre de Alex Jurgensen >> Enviado el: lunes, 09 de marzo de 2009 7:23 >> Para: MacVisionaries >> Asunto: ISpeak V0.1 released today >> >> >>> Hi, >> >> Hello >> >>> ISpeak V0.1 is available for free download. It is a very >>> biginning >>> stage of >> the operation so don't expect very much. >> >> Does this version work with voiceOver? >> >> And, when I installed it, how can I uninstall for future >> versions? >> >> Thanks and regards >> Jonathan Chacón >> >> >>> > > >> > >>> >>> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
Hi David, Could you tell me how to get this overview of the current window? What I'm proposing is something that will be in more natural english than what voice over usually does. As for the braille display detection, I'll look into filing a bug with Apple to see if they will look into this for a future OS version. Thanks - Martin Pilkington Writer of Weird Symbols pi...@mcubedsw.com On 9 Mar 2009, at 6:26 am, David Poehlman wrote: > > we already have this in vo. > > On Mar 8, 2009, at 9:59 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: > > Hi Tiffany, > > This is exactly what I'm meaning when I talk about a sort of overview > giving a full text description of a window. You could bring it up at > any point and have it read to you. It would be written specifically > for those using voice over to give a better idea of what is where when > navigating and how it works. > > Thanks > > - > Martin Pilkington > Writer of Weird Symbols > pi...@mcubedsw.com > > > On 9 Mar 2009, at 1:43 am, Tiffany D wrote: > >> As for what I'd like to see, I'd love >> there to be, either in the help file or in the tutorials of the >> applications, a list of commands so that those just learning how to >> use the software or those who need a refresher can easily find the >> answers they're seeking. Many times, I notice software that is >> accessible but only the visual ways of doing things are explained. > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: using JAWS on my Mac
if I recall, this is a bootcamp setup, we already have jaws and there are no video issues with bootcamp. On Mar 9, 2009, at 3:47 PM, Richie Gardenhire wrote: Alena, Have you tried using System Access to Go? www.satogo.com. It has no video intercept issues, and it should work with whatever Windows operating you have installed. Richie Gardenhire, anchorage, Alaska. On Mar 9, 2009, at 10:52 AM, alena.roberts2...@gmail.com wrote: > > Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I am sad to say though that I > will be removing my Windows partition. I have JAWS 8 and my graphics > processor is too new to run my version of JAWS. I have no ability to > upgrade JAWS so I guess I'll just have to figure out how to uses my > Mac for everything. > > Alena > Blog: http://blind-gal.blogspot.com > > > david poehlman wrote: >> set jaws to laptop mode nd use the capslock. that is what I am >> doing and >> others as well. >> >> - Original Message - >> From: >> To: "MacVisionaries" >> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 3:06 PM >> Subject: using JAWS on my Mac >> >> >> >> I have installed Windows on my Mac using boot camp. I am wondering if >> anyone knows the keyboard shortcuts for JAWS using the mac keyboard. >> For instance, how do I do any commands that use the "insert" key? >> Thanks >> >> Alena >> --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: using JAWS on my Mac
sorry about this, I hadn't seen the other message. On Mar 9, 2009, at 3:47 PM, Richie Gardenhire wrote: Alena, Have you tried using System Access to Go? www.satogo.com. It has no video intercept issues, and it should work with whatever Windows operating you have installed. Richie Gardenhire, anchorage, Alaska. On Mar 9, 2009, at 10:52 AM, alena.roberts2...@gmail.com wrote: > > Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I am sad to say though that I > will be removing my Windows partition. I have JAWS 8 and my graphics > processor is too new to run my version of JAWS. I have no ability to > upgrade JAWS so I guess I'll just have to figure out how to uses my > Mac for everything. > > Alena > Blog: http://blind-gal.blogspot.com > > > david poehlman wrote: >> set jaws to laptop mode nd use the capslock. that is what I am >> doing and >> others as well. >> >> - Original Message - >> From: >> To: "MacVisionaries" >> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 3:06 PM >> Subject: using JAWS on my Mac >> >> >> >> I have installed Windows on my Mac using boot camp. I am wondering if >> anyone knows the keyboard shortcuts for JAWS using the mac keyboard. >> For instance, how do I do any commands that use the "insert" key? >> Thanks >> >> Alena >> --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
Hi Scott, Here's my website URL for those who are interested: http://www.mcubedsw.com . The blog post in which I first talked about accessibility is here: http://www.mcubedsw.com/blog/index.php?/site/comments/the_accessible_mac/ Thanks - Martin Pilkington Writer of Weird Symbols pi...@mcubedsw.com On 9 Mar 2009, at 9:11 am, Scott Howell wrote: > Martin, you have certainly covered a number of areas and I am sure > you have already been to Apple's accessibility site, > http://www.apple.com/accessibility > . You can bet this list will be a valuable resource for getting your > questions answered. I will say that it is folks like yourself that > can do the disabled community a great deal of good by taking on such > a task and letting your counterparts know what you have done. We are > a small market, but at the same time we are still a market. Apple > has obviously realized this and has done well, I can't tell you the > number of folks both with and without disabilities who have switched > to the Mac. Actually the drummer in the band I am working with is > just about to make the switch and one of our guitarists just made > the switch and uses his Mac to record our material. So, let me > virtually shake your hand and commend you for for your efforts. I > did not see a URL or what software you develop. > > Thanks, > > On Mar 8, 2009, at 8:25 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> Let me introduce myself. My name is Martin Pilkington and I'm a >> software developer on the Mac. I'm starting to do a big >> accessibility push and I'm trying to get many developers to join >> me. One of the key parts of this push is a pledge to make all my >> applications 100% accessible by the end of 2009. I've defined 100% >> accessible to mean 5 things: >> >> 1. The UI available to VoiceOver users should be as user friendly >> as the visual UI. >> 2. All UI elements should have titles and/or descriptions. >> 3. All custom controls should provide full keyboard access. >> 4. There should be a clear and logical order to navigating UI >> fields with the keyboard. >> 5. Every part of an application should be reachable without the >> mouse. >> >> Now I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who hasn't >> got a disability, so I'm hoping everyone on this list could help >> me. Are there any other major points you would say an application >> needs to be 100% accessible to you? Are there any things you would >> like to find in an application as a user with a visual impairment >> that aren't part of the standard Mac accessibility tool? For >> example, an option to get a full text description of the current >> window and how to use it, at any point in the application >> >> Hopefully I can get a lot of other Mac developers to join me in my >> pledge, some others have already come on board with the idea. But >> getting the developers on board is just one piece of the puzzle. >> The most important piece is understanding exactly what your current >> problems and wishes are for accessibility in Mac apps so any >> feedback you can give me is greatly appreciated. >> >> Thanks >> >> - >> Martin Pilkington >> Writer of Weird Symbols >> pi...@mcubedsw.com >> >> >> >> >> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
this is not a bug. apple write drivers for displays themselves. the display is handled through the driver and tightly integrated into voiceover. the only thing you could offer would be a choice of short or long labels. as to my response to the summarization of what is on the screen, see vo-f1 and vo-f2 On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:02 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: Hi David, Could you tell me how to get this overview of the current window? What I'm proposing is something that will be in more natural english than what voice over usually does. As for the braille display detection, I'll look into filing a bug with Apple to see if they will look into this for a future OS version. Thanks - Martin Pilkington Writer of Weird Symbols pi...@mcubedsw.com On 9 Mar 2009, at 6:26 am, David Poehlman wrote: > > we already have this in vo. > > On Mar 8, 2009, at 9:59 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: > > Hi Tiffany, > > This is exactly what I'm meaning when I talk about a sort of overview > giving a full text description of a window. You could bring it up at > any point and have it read to you. It would be written specifically > for those using voice over to give a better idea of what is where when > navigating and how it works. > > Thanks > > - > Martin Pilkington > Writer of Weird Symbols > pi...@mcubedsw.com > > > On 9 Mar 2009, at 1:43 am, Tiffany D wrote: > >> As for what I'd like to see, I'd love >> there to be, either in the help file or in the tutorials of the >> applications, a list of commands so that those just learning how to >> use the software or those who need a refresher can easily find the >> answers they're seeking. Many times, I notice software that is >> accessible but only the visual ways of doing things are explained. > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: using JAWS on my Mac
No problem. I wasn't aware that you had BootCamp set up to use virtual Windows. Richie Gardenhire, Anchorage, Alaska. On Mar 9, 2009, at 12:04 PM, David Poehlman wrote: > > sorry about this, I hadn't seen the other message. > > On Mar 9, 2009, at 3:47 PM, Richie Gardenhire wrote: > > > Alena, Have you tried using System Access to Go? www.satogo.com. It > has no video intercept issues, and it should work with whatever > Windows operating you have installed. Richie Gardenhire, anchorage, > Alaska. > > > On Mar 9, 2009, at 10:52 AM, alena.roberts2...@gmail.com wrote: > >> >> Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I am sad to say though that I >> will be removing my Windows partition. I have JAWS 8 and my graphics >> processor is too new to run my version of JAWS. I have no ability to >> upgrade JAWS so I guess I'll just have to figure out how to uses my >> Mac for everything. >> >> Alena >> Blog: http://blind-gal.blogspot.com >> >> >> david poehlman wrote: >>> set jaws to laptop mode nd use the capslock. that is what I am >>> doing and >>> others as well. >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: >>> To: "MacVisionaries" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 3:06 PM >>> Subject: using JAWS on my Mac >>> >>> >>> >>> I have installed Windows on my Mac using boot camp. I am wondering >>> if >>> anyone knows the keyboard shortcuts for JAWS using the mac keyboard. >>> For instance, how do I do any commands that use the "insert" key? >>> Thanks >>> >>> Alena >>> > > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
I've waited until now to put my bit in, but here it is: Using self-voicing programs is sort of disrespectful to those who designed VoiceOver into Leopard in the first place. If someone has a problem with the speech, then adjust VO settings. Self voicing is like re-inventing the wheel; why are we even talking about it. Second. Keyboard shortcuts. I hesitated to mention this since it's quite nicely included in your original specs, but as someone who uses both a GUI and a keyboard-driven environment, please do not leave out one in favor of the other. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: using JAWS on my Mac
I didn't think she had bootcamp set up to use virtual windows. her problem is not a video intercept issue anyway, it's her version of jaws not supporting the graphics card although come to think of it, I have 8 running on my mac. I'll have to think on this. On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:07 PM, Richie Gardenhire wrote: No problem. I wasn't aware that you had BootCamp set up to use virtual Windows. Richie Gardenhire, Anchorage, Alaska. On Mar 9, 2009, at 12:04 PM, David Poehlman wrote: > > sorry about this, I hadn't seen the other message. > > On Mar 9, 2009, at 3:47 PM, Richie Gardenhire wrote: > > > Alena, Have you tried using System Access to Go? www.satogo.com. It > has no video intercept issues, and it should work with whatever > Windows operating you have installed. Richie Gardenhire, anchorage, > Alaska. > > > On Mar 9, 2009, at 10:52 AM, alena.roberts2...@gmail.com wrote: > >> >> Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I am sad to say though that I >> will be removing my Windows partition. I have JAWS 8 and my graphics >> processor is too new to run my version of JAWS. I have no ability to >> upgrade JAWS so I guess I'll just have to figure out how to uses my >> Mac for everything. >> >> Alena >> Blog: http://blind-gal.blogspot.com >> >> >> david poehlman wrote: >>> set jaws to laptop mode nd use the capslock. that is what I am >>> doing and >>> others as well. >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: >>> To: "MacVisionaries" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 3:06 PM >>> Subject: using JAWS on my Mac >>> >>> >>> >>> I have installed Windows on my Mac using boot camp. I am wondering >>> if >>> anyone knows the keyboard shortcuts for JAWS using the mac keyboard. >>> For instance, how do I do any commands that use the "insert" key? >>> Thanks >>> >>> Alena >>> > > > > > > >> --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Using a standard mac keyboard on my mac book pro
Hello Everyone, I purchased a full size keyboard for my macbook pro. I went into keyboard learn mode, however their are a lot of keys that are not spoken. Would anyone know where I could find information about what these keys are used for? I also need to know where and if the fn key is on the full keyboard? If it is not could it be added to one of the keys that are not spoken? Thanks in advanced. Scott --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Using a standard mac keyboard on my mac book pro
your keyboard comes with a user guide, failing accessibility of that manual, you should be able to find a pdf online. I'm sure someone will write these out for you but a handy reference is a good thing o have. On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:25 PM, Scott Ford wrote: Hello Everyone, I purchased a full size keyboard for my macbook pro. I went into keyboard learn mode, however their are a lot of keys that are not spoken. Would anyone know where I could find information about what these keys are used for? I also need to know where and if the fn key is on the full keyboard? If it is not could it be added to one of the keys that are not spoken? Thanks in advanced. Scott --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Boot camp installation of Windows 7 Beta and virtual windows?
Hello, I am trying to install Windows 7 beta into a boot camp partition because the installation that I have in the VM. Although running well it continues to have keyboard issues in Jaws that I have previously posted on. Also whenever I attempt to download anything in the VM I can't find the download. It appears to go into space. So if I am understanding correctly there is a way to tell boot camp that I am virtually installing windows? Are there any suggestions? Sharp keys has not worked. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: self voicing apps and voiceover:
David, I have to completely agree about self voicing applications vs. Voiceover compatibility. It should only be used when no alternative is really possible. Consider a speaking mode for a video game, maybe for the role playing game telling you the on screen text and possible actions you could take. Maybe it could even be useful for media center type apps like Boxee. But, any app that uses standard windows, buttons, tables, text editing blocks, no need because we've got Voiceover. I think the braille display has some potential for alternative uses. Imagine if someone made a Tetris game where you looked line by line up and down the alley at the different block formations, and scrolled back up to your block and lined it up with other blocks. Each could be a specific braille cell formation out of 8 dots. This could be one simple way to make a creative game for the braille display. But, beyond something like this, Voiceover is the best way to interact with the display. Ryan On Mar 9, 2009, at 1:56 AM, David Poehlman wrote: > > Hi all, > > we've been discussing self voicing/voice over accessible apps in > another thread but I thought this might be a more compatible subject > line for that discussion. > > I wanted to mention an excellent package demonstrating what can be > done on the mac os with regard to vo compatibility and self voicing > lest I give the impression that I think all attempts to have failed. > > http://www.assistiveware.com > has produced VisioVoice which is a screen aide for the mac bundled > with the InfovoxIvox voices from Acapella group. VisioVoice can also > be used with the mac os voices but when it was first developped, this > was not possible. > > I do not work for the company, but am greatful to David and the team > at Assistiveware for their efforts on behalf of visually impaired mac > users. > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
Hi David, Unless I'm missing something, hitting vo-F1 just reads the current application and how many open applications there are and vo-f2 just reads the title of the current window. I'm talking more about describing what UI elements are on the window and where they are. For example "On the left of the screen is the source list, it shows all your groups. In the top right in a list of all your items". Obviously it would be more detailed than this but it would also describe what actions are available. And yes, while it isn't a bug, I just refer to it as filing a bug in their bug reporter even though it is a feature request. But the point is, as Apple writes the drivers they could add support to voice over for setting a braille description string for a UI element. Thanks - Martin Pilkington Writer of Weird Symbols pi...@mcubedsw.com On 9 Mar 2009, at 8:07 pm, David Poehlman wrote: > > this is not a bug. apple write drivers for displays themselves. the > display is handled through the driver and tightly integrated into > voiceover. the only thing you could offer would be a choice of short > or long labels. > > as to my response to the summarization of what is on the screen, see > vo-f1 and vo-f2 > On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:02 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: > > Hi David, > > Could you tell me how to get this overview of the current window? What > I'm proposing is something that will be in more natural english than > what voice over usually does. As for the braille display detection, > I'll look into filing a bug with Apple to see if they will look into > this for a future OS version. > > Thanks > > - > Martin Pilkington > Writer of Weird Symbols > pi...@mcubedsw.com > > > On 9 Mar 2009, at 6:26 am, David Poehlman wrote: > >> >> we already have this in vo. >> >> On Mar 8, 2009, at 9:59 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: >> >> Hi Tiffany, >> >> This is exactly what I'm meaning when I talk about a sort of overview >> giving a full text description of a window. You could bring it up at >> any point and have it read to you. It would be written specifically >> for those using voice over to give a better idea of what is where >> when >> navigating and how it works. >> >> Thanks >> >> - >> Martin Pilkington >> Writer of Weird Symbols >> pi...@mcubedsw.com >> >> >> On 9 Mar 2009, at 1:43 am, Tiffany D wrote: >> >>> As for what I'd like to see, I'd love >>> there to be, either in the help file or in the tutorials of the >>> applications, a list of commands so that those just learning how to >>> use the software or those who need a refresher can easily find the >>> answers they're seeking. Many times, I notice software that is >>> accessible but only the visual ways of doing things are explained. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Using a standard mac keyboard on my mac book pro
Hi Scott, On the full flat keyboard with the numeric keypad there is a fn key. It is located above the delete key, to the right of the backspace key. - Martin Pilkington Writer of Weird Symbols pi...@mcubedsw.com On 9 Mar 2009, at 8:25 pm, Scott Ford wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > I purchased a full size keyboard for my macbook pro. I went into > keyboard learn mode, however their are a lot of keys that are not > spoken. Would anyone know where I could find information about what > these keys are used for? I also need to know where and if the fn key > is on the full keyboard? If it is not could it be added to one of the > keys that are not spoken? Thanks in advanced. > Scott > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
braille:Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
Apple could provide configurability for labels for vo but unless they make it available through the accessibility api, it would not do much for 3rd party accessibility apps. The normal approach is to have braille as a subset of the assistive technology and configure it through the assistive technology. On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: Hi David, Unless I'm missing something, hitting vo-F1 just reads the current application and how many open applications there are and vo-f2 just reads the title of the current window. I'm talking more about describing what UI elements are on the window and where they are. For example "On the left of the screen is the source list, it shows all your groups. In the top right in a list of all your items". Obviously it would be more detailed than this but it would also describe what actions are available. And yes, while it isn't a bug, I just refer to it as filing a bug in their bug reporter even though it is a feature request. But the point is, as Apple writes the drivers they could add support to voice over for setting a braille description string for a UI element. Thanks - Martin Pilkington Writer of Weird Symbols pi...@mcubedsw.com On 9 Mar 2009, at 8:07 pm, David Poehlman wrote: > > this is not a bug. apple write drivers for displays themselves. the > display is handled through the driver and tightly integrated into > voiceover. the only thing you could offer would be a choice of short > or long labels. > > as to my response to the summarization of what is on the screen, see > vo-f1 and vo-f2 > On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:02 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: > > Hi David, > > Could you tell me how to get this overview of the current window? What > I'm proposing is something that will be in more natural english than > what voice over usually does. As for the braille display detection, > I'll look into filing a bug with Apple to see if they will look into > this for a future OS version. > > Thanks > > - > Martin Pilkington > Writer of Weird Symbols > pi...@mcubedsw.com > > > On 9 Mar 2009, at 6:26 am, David Poehlman wrote: > >> >> we already have this in vo. >> >> On Mar 8, 2009, at 9:59 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: >> >> Hi Tiffany, >> >> This is exactly what I'm meaning when I talk about a sort of overview >> giving a full text description of a window. You could bring it up at >> any point and have it read to you. It would be written specifically >> for those using voice over to give a better idea of what is where >> when >> navigating and how it works. >> >> Thanks >> >> - >> Martin Pilkington >> Writer of Weird Symbols >> pi...@mcubedsw.com >> >> >> On 9 Mar 2009, at 1:43 am, Tiffany D wrote: >> >>> As for what I'd like to see, I'd love >>> there to be, either in the help file or in the tutorials of the >>> applications, a list of commands so that those just learning how to >>> use the software or those who need a refresher can easily find the >>> answers they're seeking. Many times, I notice software that is >>> accessible but only the visual ways of doing things are explained. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
9 mar 2009 kl. 21.45 skrev Martin Pilkington: > I'm talking more about describing what UI elements are on the window > and where they are. For example "On the left of the screen is the > source list, it shows all your groups. In the top right in a list of > all your items". This sounds like something that could be placed in a help file rather than something that should pop up into the program itself. It would be helpful though, to have something like what you described under a "getting started" section in the manual or help pages. That along with a list of the keyboard shortcuts would be a good help i think. -- /Krister --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
Hi Martin, Have you tried putting on headphones, and using the voiceover sounds as you move around the screen? Voiceover has different audio queues as you move from line to line. Also, as you go from left to right on a single line, the effects for buttons and objects move from left to right in stereo. This may save you from having to painstakingly describe where everything is in the window. I know that not all users want those sounds, but I find them extremely helpful when getting to know a program. Thanks, John On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: > Hi David, > > Unless I'm missing something, hitting vo-F1 just reads the current > application and how many open applications there are and vo-f2 just > reads the title of the current window. I'm talking more about > describing what UI elements are on the window and where they are. > For example "On the left of the screen is the source list, it shows > all your groups. In the top right in a list of all your items". > Obviously it would be more detailed than this but it would also > describe what actions are available. > > And yes, while it isn't a bug, I just refer to it as filing a bug in > their bug reporter even though it is a feature request. But the > point is, as Apple writes the drivers they could add support to > voice over for setting a braille description string for a UI element. > > Thanks > > - > Martin Pilkington > Writer of Weird Symbols > pi...@mcubedsw.com > > > On 9 Mar 2009, at 8:07 pm, David Poehlman wrote: > >> >> this is not a bug. apple write drivers for displays themselves. the >> display is handled through the driver and tightly integrated into >> voiceover. the only thing you could offer would be a choice of short >> or long labels. >> >> as to my response to the summarization of what is on the screen, see >> vo-f1 and vo-f2 >> On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:02 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: >> >> Hi David, >> >> Could you tell me how to get this overview of the current window? >> What >> I'm proposing is something that will be in more natural english than >> what voice over usually does. As for the braille display detection, >> I'll look into filing a bug with Apple to see if they will look into >> this for a future OS version. >> >> Thanks >> >> - >> Martin Pilkington >> Writer of Weird Symbols >> pi...@mcubedsw.com >> >> >> On 9 Mar 2009, at 6:26 am, David Poehlman wrote: >> >>> >>> we already have this in vo. >>> >>> On Mar 8, 2009, at 9:59 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: >>> >>> Hi Tiffany, >>> >>> This is exactly what I'm meaning when I talk about a sort of >>> overview >>> giving a full text description of a window. You could bring it up at >>> any point and have it read to you. It would be written specifically >>> for those using voice over to give a better idea of what is where >>> when >>> navigating and how it works. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> - >>> Martin Pilkington >>> Writer of Weird Symbols >>> pi...@mcubedsw.com >>> >>> >>> On 9 Mar 2009, at 1:43 am, Tiffany D wrote: >>> As for what I'd like to see, I'd love there to be, either in the help file or in the tutorials of the applications, a list of commands so that those just learning how to use the software or those who need a refresher can easily find the answers they're seeking. Many times, I notice software that is accessible but only the visual ways of doing things are explained. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
we can get that info. also, yu might want to wait till snow leopard comes out because if they do what they usually do, they will enhance vo. On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: Hi David, Unless I'm missing something, hitting vo-F1 just reads the current application and how many open applications there are and vo-f2 just reads the title of the current window. I'm talking more about describing what UI elements are on the window and where they are. For example "On the left of the screen is the source list, it shows all your groups. In the top right in a list of all your items". Obviously it would be more detailed than this but it would also describe what actions are available. And yes, while it isn't a bug, I just refer to it as filing a bug in their bug reporter even though it is a feature request. But the point is, as Apple writes the drivers they could add support to voice over for setting a braille description string for a UI element. Thanks - Martin Pilkington Writer of Weird Symbols pi...@mcubedsw.com On 9 Mar 2009, at 8:07 pm, David Poehlman wrote: > > this is not a bug. apple write drivers for displays themselves. the > display is handled through the driver and tightly integrated into > voiceover. the only thing you could offer would be a choice of short > or long labels. > > as to my response to the summarization of what is on the screen, see > vo-f1 and vo-f2 > On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:02 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: > > Hi David, > > Could you tell me how to get this overview of the current window? What > I'm proposing is something that will be in more natural english than > what voice over usually does. As for the braille display detection, > I'll look into filing a bug with Apple to see if they will look into > this for a future OS version. > > Thanks > > - > Martin Pilkington > Writer of Weird Symbols > pi...@mcubedsw.com > > > On 9 Mar 2009, at 6:26 am, David Poehlman wrote: > >> >> we already have this in vo. >> >> On Mar 8, 2009, at 9:59 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: >> >> Hi Tiffany, >> >> This is exactly what I'm meaning when I talk about a sort of overview >> giving a full text description of a window. You could bring it up at >> any point and have it read to you. It would be written specifically >> for those using voice over to give a better idea of what is where >> when >> navigating and how it works. >> >> Thanks >> >> - >> Martin Pilkington >> Writer of Weird Symbols >> pi...@mcubedsw.com >> >> >> On 9 Mar 2009, at 1:43 am, Tiffany D wrote: >> >>> As for what I'd like to see, I'd love >>> there to be, either in the help file or in the tutorials of the >>> applications, a list of commands so that those just learning how to >>> use the software or those who need a refresher can easily find the >>> answers they're seeking. Many times, I notice software that is >>> accessible but only the visual ways of doing things are explained. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: flash and VO
Good luck, my understanding is that Adobe is not overly interested in making their apps accessible for the Mac platform. I hope they change their minds of course. On Mar 9, 2009, at 3:24 PM, Richie Gardenhire wrote: > > I have written to accessibil...@apple.com, and they said to write to > Adobe > and I did so. I haven't heard from Adobe yet; I will give them a > couple days, and if I don't hear from them, I will write them again. > But the accessibility is not with Apple, but rather, Adobe, since it > is their player, and if Adobe wants their products to user-friendly > for everyone, they should so indicate. I have a home business which > uses the Flash player, but I can't use it; I have to refer my > customers to my wife, who is a business partner, and she can show > demonstrations to our customers. Richie Gardenhire, Anchorage, > Alaska. > > On Mar 9, 2009, at 10:55 AM, alena.roberts2...@gmail.com wrote: > >> >> One of the things that I have noticed since I started using VO is >> that >> it doesn't recognize flash players. Does anyone know if there is any >> plan to make VO accessible with flash? It is really frustrating when >> I can't activate a movie on a website because it's in a flash player. >> Thanks. >> >> Alena >> Blog: http://blind-gal.blogspot.com >>> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
I think he's talking about a window description a bit more in depth than just an inquiry into the name of the window/application in focus. Like "tool bar with such and such buttons, side bar to the left with source items, main view to the right with such and such." Is that right? I think generally the people here are used to just exploring around an application window, finding things as they go. Tool bars, and side bars, and main views tend to be described as such when the VO cursor is moved over them… like with iTunes for your example. This email just to point out a potential confusion that we might be having. Certainly we've never had an application that would give the user such a description up front and I'm sure this would or is coming up against different perspectives, the view of those who are a bit newer to computers and or voiceover and who like listening to human sounding voices more, and those who have more experience, coming from the dark ages (2001), when synthesized speech sounded robotic and spoke fast, who feel like they could just view the window faster by listening to their faster speech and quickly navigating over its elements. You may be surprised at how quickly one can get the layout of an application interface this way. But in the end none of us have seen such a thing before, and certainly there's no reason to write it off as unnecessary/redundant when there is someone who feels like giving it a try. Lol who knows maybe it'll catch on. Maybe if you sort of incorperated this "description" as a sort of user guide, as alternative to, say, a video which would show a sighted user the interface. Regards Justin Harford "Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia." Charles Schultz, creator of the Peanuts comic strip. El 09/03/2009, a las 13:07, David Poehlman escribió: > > this is not a bug. apple write drivers for displays themselves. the > display is handled through the driver and tightly integrated into > voiceover. the only thing you could offer would be a choice of short > or long labels. > > as to my response to the summarization of what is on the screen, see > vo-f1 and vo-f2 > On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:02 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: > > Hi David, > > Could you tell me how to get this overview of the current window? What > I'm proposing is something that will be in more natural english than > what voice over usually does. As for the braille display detection, > I'll look into filing a bug with Apple to see if they will look into > this for a future OS version. > > Thanks > > - > Martin Pilkington > Writer of Weird Symbols > pi...@mcubedsw.com > > > On 9 Mar 2009, at 6:26 am, David Poehlman wrote: > >> >> we already have this in vo. >> >> On Mar 8, 2009, at 9:59 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: >> >> Hi Tiffany, >> >> This is exactly what I'm meaning when I talk about a sort of overview >> giving a full text description of a window. You could bring it up at >> any point and have it read to you. It would be written specifically >> for those using voice over to give a better idea of what is where >> when >> navigating and how it works. >> >> Thanks >> >> - >> Martin Pilkington >> Writer of Weird Symbols >> pi...@mcubedsw.com >> >> >> On 9 Mar 2009, at 1:43 am, Tiffany D wrote: >> >>> As for what I'd like to see, I'd love >>> there to be, either in the help file or in the tutorials of the >>> applications, a list of commands so that those just learning how to >>> use the software or those who need a refresher can easily find the >>> answers they're seeking. Many times, I notice software that is >>> accessible but only the visual ways of doing things are explained. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
I wouldn't rely on the next cat for any of this. You know we have had people commenting before that they would like webpages to describe themselves like under win, (6 headings, 81 links, 2 frames" etc… maybe we could use something like this in an application. What someone could suggest to apple is that they give the developer the ability to write descriptions of their application windows in the same interface that allows them to write button descriptions and help tags. Then they could designate a VO key to access this text. Such could be the same in webpages. "Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia." Charles Schultz, creator of the Peanuts comic strip. El 09/03/2009, a las 13:49, David Poehlman escribió: > > we can get that info. also, yu might want to wait till snow leopard > comes out because if they do what they usually do, they will enhance > vo. > > On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: > > Hi David, > > Unless I'm missing something, hitting vo-F1 just reads the current > application and how many open applications there are and vo-f2 just > reads the title of the current window. I'm talking more about > describing what UI elements are on the window and where they are. For > example "On the left of the screen is the source list, it shows all > your groups. In the top right in a list of all your items". Obviously > it would be more detailed than this but it would also describe what > actions are available. > > And yes, while it isn't a bug, I just refer to it as filing a bug in > their bug reporter even though it is a feature request. But the point > is, as Apple writes the drivers they could add support to voice over > for setting a braille description string for a UI element. > > Thanks > > - > Martin Pilkington > Writer of Weird Symbols > pi...@mcubedsw.com > > > On 9 Mar 2009, at 8:07 pm, David Poehlman wrote: > >> >> this is not a bug. apple write drivers for displays themselves. the >> display is handled through the driver and tightly integrated into >> voiceover. the only thing you could offer would be a choice of short >> or long labels. >> >> as to my response to the summarization of what is on the screen, see >> vo-f1 and vo-f2 >> On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:02 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: >> >> Hi David, >> >> Could you tell me how to get this overview of the current window? >> What >> I'm proposing is something that will be in more natural english than >> what voice over usually does. As for the braille display detection, >> I'll look into filing a bug with Apple to see if they will look into >> this for a future OS version. >> >> Thanks >> >> - >> Martin Pilkington >> Writer of Weird Symbols >> pi...@mcubedsw.com >> >> >> On 9 Mar 2009, at 6:26 am, David Poehlman wrote: >> >>> >>> we already have this in vo. >>> >>> On Mar 8, 2009, at 9:59 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: >>> >>> Hi Tiffany, >>> >>> This is exactly what I'm meaning when I talk about a sort of >>> overview >>> giving a full text description of a window. You could bring it up at >>> any point and have it read to you. It would be written specifically >>> for those using voice over to give a better idea of what is where >>> when >>> navigating and how it works. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> - >>> Martin Pilkington >>> Writer of Weird Symbols >>> pi...@mcubedsw.com >>> >>> >>> On 9 Mar 2009, at 1:43 am, Tiffany D wrote: >>> As for what I'd like to see, I'd love there to be, either in the help file or in the tutorials of the applications, a list of commands so that those just learning how to use the software or those who need a refresher can easily find the answers they're seeking. Many times, I notice software that is accessible but only the visual ways of doing things are explained. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Using a standard mac keyboard on my mac book pro
Hello, What brand is your keyboard? On Mar 9, 2009, at 3:25 PM, Scott Ford wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > I purchased a full size keyboard for my macbook pro. I went into > keyboard learn mode, however their are a lot of keys that are not > spoken. Would anyone know where I could find information about what > these keys are used for? I also need to know where and if the fn key > is on the full keyboard? If it is not could it be added to one of the > keys that are not spoken? Thanks in advanced. > Scott > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
I think there is some misunderstanding about what these descriptions would be, but it seems the general consensus is that this sort of thing is better left in the manual. The ability to bring up a list of all the keyboard commands would be extremely useful to all users so I'll definitely look into it. Thanks for all the feedback - Martin Pilkington Writer of Weird Symbols pi...@mcubedsw.com On 9 Mar 2009, at 9:41 pm, Justin Harford wrote: > > I wouldn't rely on the next cat for any of this. > > You know we have had people commenting before that they would like > webpages to describe themselves like under win, (6 headings, 81 links, > 2 frames" etc… maybe we could use something like this in an > application. What someone could suggest to apple is that they give > the developer the ability to write descriptions of their application > windows in the same interface that allows them to write button > descriptions and help tags. Then they could designate a VO key to > access this text. Such could be the same in webpages. > > > > "Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already > tomorrow in Australia." Charles Schultz, creator of the Peanuts comic > strip. > > El 09/03/2009, a las 13:49, David Poehlman escribió: > >> >> we can get that info. also, yu might want to wait till snow leopard >> comes out because if they do what they usually do, they will enhance >> vo. >> >> On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: >> >> Hi David, >> >> Unless I'm missing something, hitting vo-F1 just reads the current >> application and how many open applications there are and vo-f2 just >> reads the title of the current window. I'm talking more about >> describing what UI elements are on the window and where they are. For >> example "On the left of the screen is the source list, it shows all >> your groups. In the top right in a list of all your items". Obviously >> it would be more detailed than this but it would also describe what >> actions are available. >> >> And yes, while it isn't a bug, I just refer to it as filing a bug in >> their bug reporter even though it is a feature request. But the point >> is, as Apple writes the drivers they could add support to voice over >> for setting a braille description string for a UI element. >> >> Thanks >> >> - >> Martin Pilkington >> Writer of Weird Symbols >> pi...@mcubedsw.com >> >> >> On 9 Mar 2009, at 8:07 pm, David Poehlman wrote: >> >>> >>> this is not a bug. apple write drivers for displays themselves. >>> the >>> display is handled through the driver and tightly integrated into >>> voiceover. the only thing you could offer would be a choice of >>> short >>> or long labels. >>> >>> as to my response to the summarization of what is on the screen, see >>> vo-f1 and vo-f2 >>> On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:02 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: >>> >>> Hi David, >>> >>> Could you tell me how to get this overview of the current window? >>> What >>> I'm proposing is something that will be in more natural english than >>> what voice over usually does. As for the braille display detection, >>> I'll look into filing a bug with Apple to see if they will look into >>> this for a future OS version. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> - >>> Martin Pilkington >>> Writer of Weird Symbols >>> pi...@mcubedsw.com >>> >>> >>> On 9 Mar 2009, at 6:26 am, David Poehlman wrote: >>> we already have this in vo. On Mar 8, 2009, at 9:59 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: Hi Tiffany, This is exactly what I'm meaning when I talk about a sort of overview giving a full text description of a window. You could bring it up at any point and have it read to you. It would be written specifically for those using voice over to give a better idea of what is where when navigating and how it works. Thanks - Martin Pilkington Writer of Weird Symbols pi...@mcubedsw.com On 9 Mar 2009, at 1:43 am, Tiffany D wrote: > As for what I'd like to see, I'd love > there to be, either in the help file or in the tutorials of the > applications, a list of commands so that those just learning how > to > use the software or those who need a refresher can easily find the > answers they're seeking. Many times, I notice software that is > accessible but only the visual ways of doing things are explained. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at
Re: ISpeak V0.1 released today
Hi, I said the Open-Source project would be released on the 17, meaning that people could contribute patches. Thanks, Alex, On 9-Mar-09, at 12:53 PM, Brandon Misch wrote: > > o cool. can't wait to see it working with vo. will it be completed on > the 17th as you said a few days ago? > > On Mar 9, 2009, at 3:33 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > >> >> Hi, >> >> It works with the Command-Line. Yes Moterolla voices will be >> supported. >> >> Thanks, >> Alex, >> >> >> On 9-Mar-09, at 12:27 PM, Brandon Misch wrote: >> >>> >>> o ok. since .2 can't work with vo yet, what does it work with for >>> the >>> moment? >>> >>> On Mar 9, 2009, at 1:27 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: >>> Hi, The 0.2 includes an uninstaller and improved installer. Thanks, Alex, On 9-Mar-09, at 10:17 AM, Brandon Misch wrote: > > o ok. what are the differents between v1 and v2 or 0.1 and 0.2 > besides > the file sizes? > > On Mar 9, 2009, at 3:30 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > >> >> Hi, >> >> This will not work with Voiceover yet until all the requirements >> in >> the ISpeak-0.1/Documentation/READMES/Things That Must Be Done.rtf >> file >> are complete. >> >> Thanks, >> Alex, >> >> >> On 9-Mar-09, at 12:16 AM, Jonathan Chacón wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> -Mensaje original- >>> De: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> ] >>> En nombre de Alex Jurgensen >>> Enviado el: lunes, 09 de marzo de 2009 7:23 >>> Para: MacVisionaries >>> Asunto: ISpeak V0.1 released today >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Hello >>> ISpeak V0.1 is available for free download. It is a very biginning stage of >>> the operation so don't expect very much. >>> >>> Does this version work with voiceOver? >>> >>> And, when I installed it, how can I uninstall for future >>> versions? >>> >>> Thanks and regards >>> Jonathan Chacón >>> >>> >> >> >>> > > >> > >>> >>> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Using a standard mac keyboard on my mac book pro
Ryan, The Keyboard is the new flat one that feels like metal. The one that comes witha new mac computer. The keyboard has a number pad and something like sixteen f keys and twelve keys where the six pack usually is located. This is where the fn key is exactly where i was told in a previous message. Thank you for any help. Scott On Mar 9, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Ryan Dour wrote: > > Hello, > > What brand is your keyboard? > > > On Mar 9, 2009, at 3:25 PM, Scott Ford wrote: > >> >> Hello Everyone, >> I purchased a full size keyboard for my macbook pro. I went into >> keyboard learn mode, however their are a lot of keys that are not >> spoken. Would anyone know where I could find information about what >> these keys are used for? I also need to know where and if the fn key >> is on the full keyboard? If it is not could it be added to one of >> the >> keys that are not spoken? Thanks in advanced. >> Scott >> >>> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
Hi, Except like in Kiwi Keys where you can use Voiceover, but the commands are spoken by the Speech Manager. Thanks, Alex, On 9-Mar-09, at 1:23 PM, Mark Baxter wrote: > > I've waited until now to put my bit in, but here it is: > Using self-voicing programs is sort of disrespectful to those who > designed VoiceOver into Leopard in the first place. If someone has a > problem with the speech, then adjust VO settings. Self voicing is > like re-inventing the wheel; why are we even talking about it. > Second. Keyboard shortcuts. I hesitated to mention this since it's > quite nicely included in your original specs, but as someone who uses > both a GUI and a keyboard-driven environment, please do not leave out > one in favor of the other. > > > Mark BurningHawk > > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com > My home page: > http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
we can already bring up a list of keyboard commands in voiceover. On Mar 9, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: I think there is some misunderstanding about what these descriptions would be, but it seems the general consensus is that this sort of thing is better left in the manual. The ability to bring up a list of all the keyboard commands would be extremely useful to all users so I'll definitely look into it. Thanks for all the feedback - Martin Pilkington Writer of Weird Symbols pi...@mcubedsw.com On 9 Mar 2009, at 9:41 pm, Justin Harford wrote: > > I wouldn't rely on the next cat for any of this. > > You know we have had people commenting before that they would like > webpages to describe themselves like under win, (6 headings, 81 links, > 2 frames" etc… maybe we could use something like this in an > application. What someone could suggest to apple is that they give > the developer the ability to write descriptions of their application > windows in the same interface that allows them to write button > descriptions and help tags. Then they could designate a VO key to > access this text. Such could be the same in webpages. > > > > "Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already > tomorrow in Australia." Charles Schultz, creator of the Peanuts comic > strip. > > El 09/03/2009, a las 13:49, David Poehlman escribió: > >> >> we can get that info. also, yu might want to wait till snow leopard >> comes out because if they do what they usually do, they will enhance >> vo. >> >> On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: >> >> Hi David, >> >> Unless I'm missing something, hitting vo-F1 just reads the current >> application and how many open applications there are and vo-f2 just >> reads the title of the current window. I'm talking more about >> describing what UI elements are on the window and where they are. For >> example "On the left of the screen is the source list, it shows all >> your groups. In the top right in a list of all your items". Obviously >> it would be more detailed than this but it would also describe what >> actions are available. >> >> And yes, while it isn't a bug, I just refer to it as filing a bug in >> their bug reporter even though it is a feature request. But the point >> is, as Apple writes the drivers they could add support to voice over >> for setting a braille description string for a UI element. >> >> Thanks >> >> - >> Martin Pilkington >> Writer of Weird Symbols >> pi...@mcubedsw.com >> >> >> On 9 Mar 2009, at 8:07 pm, David Poehlman wrote: >> >>> >>> this is not a bug. apple write drivers for displays themselves. >>> the >>> display is handled through the driver and tightly integrated into >>> voiceover. the only thing you could offer would be a choice of >>> short >>> or long labels. >>> >>> as to my response to the summarization of what is on the screen, see >>> vo-f1 and vo-f2 >>> On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:02 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: >>> >>> Hi David, >>> >>> Could you tell me how to get this overview of the current window? >>> What >>> I'm proposing is something that will be in more natural english than >>> what voice over usually does. As for the braille display detection, >>> I'll look into filing a bug with Apple to see if they will look into >>> this for a future OS version. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> - >>> Martin Pilkington >>> Writer of Weird Symbols >>> pi...@mcubedsw.com >>> >>> >>> On 9 Mar 2009, at 6:26 am, David Poehlman wrote: >>> we already have this in vo. On Mar 8, 2009, at 9:59 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: Hi Tiffany, This is exactly what I'm meaning when I talk about a sort of overview giving a full text description of a window. You could bring it up at any point and have it read to you. It would be written specifically for those using voice over to give a better idea of what is where when navigating and how it works. Thanks - Martin Pilkington Writer of Weird Symbols pi...@mcubedsw.com On 9 Mar 2009, at 1:43 am, Tiffany D wrote: > As for what I'd like to see, I'd love > there to be, either in the help file or in the tutorials of the > applications, a list of commands so that those just learning how > to > use the software or those who need a refresher can easily find the > answers they're seeking. Many times, I notice software that is > accessible but only the visual ways of doing things are explained. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
He means individual program commands not VO commands. "Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia." Charles Schultz, creator of the Peanuts comic strip. El 09/03/2009, a las 15:31, David Poehlman escribió: > > we can already bring up a list of keyboard commands in voiceover. > > On Mar 9, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: > > I think there is some misunderstanding about what these descriptions > would be, but it seems the general consensus is that this sort of > thing is better left in the manual. The ability to bring up a list of > all the keyboard commands would be extremely useful to all users so > I'll definitely look into it. > > Thanks for all the feedback > > - > Martin Pilkington > Writer of Weird Symbols > pi...@mcubedsw.com > > > On 9 Mar 2009, at 9:41 pm, Justin Harford wrote: > >> >> I wouldn't rely on the next cat for any of this. >> >> You know we have had people commenting before that they would like >> webpages to describe themselves like under win, (6 headings, 81 >> links, >> 2 frames" etc… maybe we could use something like this in an >> application. What someone could suggest to apple is that they give >> the developer the ability to write descriptions of their application >> windows in the same interface that allows them to write button >> descriptions and help tags. Then they could designate a VO key to >> access this text. Such could be the same in webpages. >> >> >> >> "Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already >> tomorrow in Australia." Charles Schultz, creator of the Peanuts comic >> strip. >> >> El 09/03/2009, a las 13:49, David Poehlman escribió: >> >>> >>> we can get that info. also, yu might want to wait till snow leopard >>> comes out because if they do what they usually do, they will enhance >>> vo. >>> >>> On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: >>> >>> Hi David, >>> >>> Unless I'm missing something, hitting vo-F1 just reads the current >>> application and how many open applications there are and vo-f2 just >>> reads the title of the current window. I'm talking more about >>> describing what UI elements are on the window and where they are. >>> For >>> example "On the left of the screen is the source list, it shows all >>> your groups. In the top right in a list of all your items". >>> Obviously >>> it would be more detailed than this but it would also describe what >>> actions are available. >>> >>> And yes, while it isn't a bug, I just refer to it as filing a bug in >>> their bug reporter even though it is a feature request. But the >>> point >>> is, as Apple writes the drivers they could add support to voice over >>> for setting a braille description string for a UI element. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> - >>> Martin Pilkington >>> Writer of Weird Symbols >>> pi...@mcubedsw.com >>> >>> >>> On 9 Mar 2009, at 8:07 pm, David Poehlman wrote: >>> this is not a bug. apple write drivers for displays themselves. the display is handled through the driver and tightly integrated into voiceover. the only thing you could offer would be a choice of short or long labels. as to my response to the summarization of what is on the screen, see vo-f1 and vo-f2 On Mar 9, 2009, at 4:02 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: Hi David, Could you tell me how to get this overview of the current window? What I'm proposing is something that will be in more natural english than what voice over usually does. As for the braille display detection, I'll look into filing a bug with Apple to see if they will look into this for a future OS version. Thanks - Martin Pilkington Writer of Weird Symbols pi...@mcubedsw.com On 9 Mar 2009, at 6:26 am, David Poehlman wrote: > > we already have this in vo. > > On Mar 8, 2009, at 9:59 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote: > > Hi Tiffany, > > This is exactly what I'm meaning when I talk about a sort of > overview > giving a full text description of a window. You could bring it up > at > any point and have it read to you. It would be written > specifically > for those using voice over to give a better idea of what is where > when > navigating and how it works. > > Thanks > > - > Martin Pilkington > Writer of Weird Symbols > pi...@mcubedsw.com > > > On 9 Mar 2009, at 1:43 am, Tiffany D wrote: > >> As for what I'd like to see, I'd love >> there to be, either in the help file or in the tutorials of the >> applications, a list of commands so that those just learning how >> to >> use the software or those who need a refresher can easily find >> the >> answe
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
I also agree with this, voice over is a great screen reader, and apple has provided the tools to make an application completely accessible. A self voicing program normally should not be needed. - Original Message - From: "Jacob Schmude" To: Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 5:12 AM Subject: Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs > > Hi Krister > I'm in full agreement here. Let's not forget what makes the Mac > platform so awesome, the fact that we need not have any additional > program other than Voiceover to provide accessibility, and the fact > that Voiceover is right there for developers to test and with which > they can make their application compatible. I think the goals Martin > has already set out are exactly what is needed in 99.99% of all > applications for good accessibility, and I also must applaud and thank > him for his willingness to do this and for the example he will set. > The only times self-voicing should be used is if there is no way at > all to hook the application into Voiceover (very rare), or in the case > of programs that have a lot of background events that need to be > reported. It is common practice on the Mac to enable the speaking of > these background events, e.g. a contact signing on or off in an > instant messaging application. This isn't implemented for the sake of > the blind, however, a lot of people take advantage of these event > notifications in some form or another, be they spoken or just a sound > effect. > > > On Mar 9, 2009, at 05:58, Krister Ekstrom wrote: > >> >> Hi, >> Excuse me here a moment, but what do we want? Do we want a specially >> made program for the blind or an application that both blind and >> sighted people alike can use without us stepping on eachothers toes? >> You may think this question is silly or such, but i think it's >> relevant since what i've heard is more or less about a specially made >> program for the blind. My advise maybe is provoking i don't know, but >> here goes: Don't do anything special. Just make sure all controls are >> made available to the Apple Accessibility framework, and as i >> understand it, it can be done by writing the app in Cocoa. If the >> logic of the controls is very bad, then sure it could use some fixing, >> but otherwise just make all controls visible to the accessibility >> framework already in place. >> /Krister >> >> >> 9 mar 2009 kl. 01.41 skrev Michael Babcock: >> >>> very good points chris, i agree. Though the self voicing option >>> isn't a 100% thing, in some apps it would truly be nice. >>> mike >>> >>> On Mar 8, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Chris Gilland wrote: >>> I think it would be cool to use the default voice set via system preferences and make it where the program can be self voiceing if needed. Also provide an option to turn on, or off the self voicing feature, this way if a user wants to use voice over, great, if not, he or she still can do what needs to be done. Also, I would make your labels for the U I, very discriptive but yet maybe slightly shorter for the interface that is viewed via a braille display. This way the point is made but only the absolutely necessary amount of cells are used, this way providing more room for other things, such as the value of the U I control. I may also advise you write your programs in cocoe as I hear that language is very very voice over friendly. Finally maybe provide an option for the program to be able to enable magnification in the program for low vision usersw. Also maybe provide an option to turn the programs st. This way it even helps low vision users as well as us like myself who are nearly compltely total. Chris. Do you use Twitter? If so, then, I'd love! for you to follow me. My twitter URL is: http://twitter.com/chris28210 - Original Message - From: Martin Pilkington To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 8:25 PM Subject: Understanding Blind User's Needs Hi All, Let me introduce myself. My name is Martin Pilkington and I'm a software developer on the Mac. I'm sta bility push and I'm trying to get many developers to join me. One of the key parts of this push is a pledge to make all my applications 100% accessible by the end of 2009. I've defined 100% accessible to mean 5 things: 1. The UI available to VoiceOver users should be as user friendly as the visual UI. 2. All UI elements should have titles and/or descriptions. 3. All custom controls should provide full keyboard access. 4. There should be a clear and logical order to navigating UI fields with the keyboard. 5. Every part of an application should be reachable without the mouse. Now I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who hasn't got a disability, so I'm hoping everyone on this list could help
Re: flash and VO
Unfortunately, Adobe does not currently expose flash elements in a way that voice over can use, and last I heard, they didn't think there was enough mac users to spend resources on this. - Original Message - From: To: "MacVisionaries" Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 1:55 PM Subject: flash and VO > > One of the things that I have noticed since I started using VO is that > it doesn't recognize flash players. Does anyone know if there is any > plan to make VO accessible with flash? It is really frustrating when > I can't activate a movie on a website because it's in a flash player. > Thanks. > > Alena > Blog: http://blind-gal.blogspot.com > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ISpeak V0.1 released today
o i get it. lol. guess it's going great so far. On Mar 9, 2009, at 6:19 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > > Hi, > > I said the Open-Source project would be released on the 17, meaning > that people could contribute patches. > > Thanks, > Alex, > > > On 9-Mar-09, at 12:53 PM, Brandon Misch wrote: > >> >> o cool. can't wait to see it working with vo. will it be completed on >> the 17th as you said a few days ago? >> >> On Mar 9, 2009, at 3:33 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> It works with the Command-Line. Yes Moterolla voices will be >>> supported. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Alex, >>> >>> >>> On 9-Mar-09, at 12:27 PM, Brandon Misch wrote: >>> o ok. since .2 can't work with vo yet, what does it work with for the moment? On Mar 9, 2009, at 1:27 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > > Hi, > > The 0.2 includes an uninstaller and improved installer. > > Thanks, > Alex, > > > On 9-Mar-09, at 10:17 AM, Brandon Misch wrote: > >> >> o ok. what are the differents between v1 and v2 or 0.1 and 0.2 >> besides >> the file sizes? >> >> On Mar 9, 2009, at 3:30 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> This will not work with Voiceover yet until all the requirements >>> in >>> the ISpeak-0.1/Documentation/READMES/Things That Must Be >>> Done.rtf >>> file >>> are complete. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Alex, >>> >>> >>> On 9-Mar-09, at 12:16 AM, Jonathan Chacón wrote: >>> -Mensaje original- De: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ] En nombre de Alex Jurgensen Enviado el: lunes, 09 de marzo de 2009 7:23 Para: MacVisionaries Asunto: ISpeak V0.1 released today > Hi, Hello > ISpeak V0.1 is available for free download. It is a very > biginning > stage of the operation so don't expect very much. Does this version work with voiceOver? And, when I installed it, how can I uninstall for future versions? Thanks and regards Jonathan Chacón > >>> >>> >> >> >>> > > >> > >>> >>> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
I think that, too long, screen access was more reactionary because, for the most part, when new technology comes into the marketplace, developers have been scrambling to "keep up," rather than put the universal design in their products in the first place. And it's for this reason, Apple encourages developers to use the scripts built into the operating system. On Mar 9, 2009, at 3:53 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote: > > I also agree with this, voice over is a great screen reader, and > apple has > provided the tools to make an application completely accessible. A > self > voicing program normally should not be needed. > - Original Message - > From: "Jacob Schmude" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 5:12 AM > Subject: Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs > > >> >> Hi Krister >> I'm in full agreement here. Let's not forget what makes the Mac >> platform so awesome, the fact that we need not have any additional >> program other than Voiceover to provide accessibility, and the fact >> that Voiceover is right there for developers to test and with which >> they can make their application compatible. I think the goals Martin >> has already set out are exactly what is needed in 99.99% of all >> applications for good accessibility, and I also must applaud and >> thank >> him for his willingness to do this and for the example he will set. >> The only times self-voicing should be used is if there is no way at >> all to hook the application into Voiceover (very rare), or in the >> case >> of programs that have a lot of background events that need to be >> reported. It is common practice on the Mac to enable the speaking of >> these background events, e.g. a contact signing on or off in an >> instant messaging application. This isn't implemented for the sake of >> the blind, however, a lot of people take advantage of these event >> notifications in some form or another, be they spoken or just a sound >> effect. >> >> >> On Mar 9, 2009, at 05:58, Krister Ekstrom wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi, >>> Excuse me here a moment, but what do we want? Do we want a specially >>> made program for the blind or an application that both blind and >>> sighted people alike can use without us stepping on eachothers toes? >>> You may think this question is silly or such, but i think it's >>> relevant since what i've heard is more or less about a specially >>> made >>> program for the blind. My advise maybe is provoking i don't know, >>> but >>> here goes: Don't do anything special. Just make sure all controls >>> are >>> made available to the Apple Accessibility framework, and as i >>> understand it, it can be done by writing the app in Cocoa. If the >>> logic of the controls is very bad, then sure it could use some >>> fixing, >>> but otherwise just make all controls visible to the accessibility >>> framework already in place. >>> /Krister >>> >>> >>> 9 mar 2009 kl. 01.41 skrev Michael Babcock: >>> very good points chris, i agree. Though the self voicing option isn't a 100% thing, in some apps it would truly be nice. mike On Mar 8, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Chris Gilland wrote: > I think it would be cool to use the default voice set via system > preferences and make it where the program can be self voiceing if > needed. Also provide an option to turn on, or off the self > voicing > feature, this way if a user wants to use voice over, great, if > not, > he or she still can do what needs to be done. Also, I would make > your labels for the U I, very discriptive but yet maybe slightly > shorter for the interface that is viewed via a braille display. > This way the point is made but only the absolutely necessary > amount > of cells are used, this way providing more room for other things, > such as the value of the U I control. I may also advise you write > your programs in cocoe as I hear that language is very very voice > over friendly. Finally maybe provide an option for the program to > be able to enable magnification in the program for low vision > usersw. Also maybe provide an option to turn the programs st. > > This way it even helps low vision users as well as us like myself > who are nearly compltely total. > > Chris. > > > Do you use Twitter? If so, then, I'd love! for you to follow me. > My twitter URL is: > > http://twitter.com/chris28210 > - Original Message - > From: Martin Pilkington > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 8:25 PM > Subject: Understanding Blind User's Needs > > Hi All, > > Let me introduce myself. My name is Martin Pilkington and I'm a > software developer on the Mac. I'm sta bility push and I'm trying > to get many developers to join me. One of the key parts of this > push is a pledge to make all my applications 100% accessible by > the > end of 2009. I
Re: flash and VO
The way I heard it on Leo Laporte podcast was Jobs did not want flash. On Mar 9, 2009, at 5:13 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote: > > Unfortunately, Adobe does not currently expose flash elements in a > way that > voice over can use, and last I heard, they didn't think there was > enough mac > users to spend resources on this. > - Original Message - > From: > To: "MacVisionaries" > Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 1:55 PM > Subject: flash and VO > > >> >> One of the things that I have noticed since I started using VO is >> that >> it doesn't recognize flash players. Does anyone know if there is any >> plan to make VO accessible with flash? It is really frustrating when >> I can't activate a movie on a website because it's in a flash player. >> Thanks. >> >> Alena >> Blog: http://blind-gal.blogspot.com >>> >> > > > > louie louiem...@wavecable.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: flash and VO
I think you're confusing the Mac with the iPhone. Jobs did not want flash on the iPhone, and the iPhone consequently doesn't have it. He probably doesn't want flash on the Mac either, I kind of agree with him given how badly it's misused, but the fact is the plugin is there and Adobe has proven outright hostile to any requests for accessibility on any platform other than Windows. Not surprising really, seeing as how most of the accessibility stuff was done by Macromedia before Adobe acquired it, and Adobe doesn't exactly have a great reputation when it comes to accessibility in general. I've never received a hostile reply from anyone at Apple concerning flash accessibility, though there's not much Apple can do given that they do not have access to the source of the flash plugin short of making their own version of it and that's not likely to happen. On Mar 9, 2009, at 20:40, louie wrote: > > The way I heard it on Leo Laporte podcast was Jobs did not want flash. > > On Mar 9, 2009, at 5:13 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote: > >> >> Unfortunately, Adobe does not currently expose flash elements in a >> way that >> voice over can use, and last I heard, they didn't think there was >> enough mac >> users to spend resources on this. >> - Original Message - >> From: >> To: "MacVisionaries" >> Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 1:55 PM >> Subject: flash and VO >> >> >>> >>> One of the things that I have noticed since I started using VO is >>> that >>> it doesn't recognize flash players. Does anyone know if there is any >>> plan to make VO accessible with flash? It is really frustrating >>> when >>> I can't activate a movie on a website because it's in a flash >>> player. >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Alena >>> Blog: http://blind-gal.blogspot.com >>> >> >> >>> > > louie > louiem...@wavecable.com > > > > > > The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair. --Douglas Adams --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: flash and VO
I stand corrected. Thanks. On Mar 9, 2009, at 5:46 PM, Jacob Schmude wrote: > > I think you're confusing the Mac with the iPhone. Jobs did not want > flash on the iPhone, and the iPhone consequently doesn't have it. > He probably doesn't want flash on the Mac either, I kind of agree with > him given how badly it's misused, but the fact is the plugin is there > and Adobe has proven outright hostile to any requests for > accessibility on any platform other than Windows. Not surprising > really, seeing as how most of the accessibility stuff was done by > Macromedia before Adobe acquired it, and Adobe doesn't exactly have a > great reputation when it comes to accessibility in general. > I've never received a hostile reply from anyone at Apple concerning > flash accessibility, though there's not much Apple can do given that > they do not have access to the source of the flash plugin short of > making their own version of it and that's not likely to happen. > > On Mar 9, 2009, at 20:40, louie wrote: > >> >> The way I heard it on Leo Laporte podcast was Jobs did not want >> flash. >> >> On Mar 9, 2009, at 5:13 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote: >> >>> >>> Unfortunately, Adobe does not currently expose flash elements in a >>> way that >>> voice over can use, and last I heard, they didn't think there was >>> enough mac >>> users to spend resources on this. >>> - Original Message - >>> From: >>> To: "MacVisionaries" >>> Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 1:55 PM >>> Subject: flash and VO >>> >>> One of the things that I have noticed since I started using VO is that it doesn't recognize flash players. Does anyone know if there is any plan to make VO accessible with flash? It is really frustrating when I can't activate a movie on a website because it's in a flash player. Thanks. Alena Blog: http://blind-gal.blogspot.com > >>> >>> >> >> louie >> louiem...@wavecable.com >> >> >> >> >>> > >The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a > thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot > possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to > get at or repair. > --Douglas Adams > > > > louie louiem...@wavecable.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Voice List so far
Hi, All, Here is the list of voices so far. We still have a ways to go. Female: (En-Sc) Peggy (En-UK) Harriet (En) Susan (Ku) Soma (De) Brigitte Male: (En) Judson (En) Howard (En-Sc) James (En-UK) Peter (Ku) Dara (De) Johanna's Thanks, Alex, --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Voice List so far
hi. from what i can see so far what needs too be done are: first and most important make the espeak interact with the native mac interface: i just set up a computer that can handle the stuf just in case something goes down the drain. I will try a few things to morrow and see if it works. I believe Alex talked about perl but why? if Apple have made it so we can just throw new voices in that would be the best way too go. The thing too keep in mind here is seen from my point of view... lets imagine we ahve a russian speaker... ever seem the russians erconomy? i can easily imagine we are speaking small computers so the less processes that would be needed too make it work the better. So i woudl say way to go is : 1: make espeak work with Mac 2 intigrate other voices. 3 write some better documentation. In the meantime be patient. Just too make it alittle more clear and not get the same questions over and over on the list ... some have asked "what is i-speak i as india not e as echo. Ispeak is e speak on the mac working with its native voiceover commands "i dont know why alex would call it i speak but ...:) on that the mini just decided too install nicely and the new kim harrison book is awaiting my feminine attention so on that guys and gals . sleep well:) catch ya'll later! /sandi On Mar 9, 2009, at 6:11 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: > > Hi, > All, > > Here is the list of voices so far. We still have a ways to go. > > Female: > (En-Sc) Peggy > (En-UK) Harriet > (En) Susan > (Ku) Soma > (De) Brigitte > > Male: > (En) Judson > (En) Howard > (En-Sc) James > (En-UK) Peter > (Ku) Dara > (De) Johanna's > > Thanks, > Alex, > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs
yes, the apple accessibility api gets us most of the way there and because voiceover is included and full keyboard access is available for the os, almost anything can be made to work and it will not but get better. I've seen a lot of apps become accessible in a short time; ITunes, Iwork, Open office and many others. On Mar 9, 2009, at 8:38 PM, Richie Gardenhire wrote: I think that, too long, screen access was more reactionary because, for the most part, when new technology comes into the marketplace, developers have been scrambling to "keep up," rather than put the universal design in their products in the first place. And it's for this reason, Apple encourages developers to use the scripts built into the operating system. On Mar 9, 2009, at 3:53 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote: > > I also agree with this, voice over is a great screen reader, and > apple has > provided the tools to make an application completely accessible. A > self > voicing program normally should not be needed. > - Original Message - > From: "Jacob Schmude" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 5:12 AM > Subject: Re: Understanding Blind User's Needs > > >> >> Hi Krister >> I'm in full agreement here. Let's not forget what makes the Mac >> platform so awesome, the fact that we need not have any additional >> program other than Voiceover to provide accessibility, and the fact >> that Voiceover is right there for developers to test and with which >> they can make their application compatible. I think the goals Martin >> has already set out are exactly what is needed in 99.99% of all >> applications for good accessibility, and I also must applaud and >> thank >> him for his willingness to do this and for the example he will set. >> The only times self-voicing should be used is if there is no way at >> all to hook the application into Voiceover (very rare), or in the >> case >> of programs that have a lot of background events that need to be >> reported. It is common practice on the Mac to enable the speaking of >> these background events, e.g. a contact signing on or off in an >> instant messaging application. This isn't implemented for the sake of >> the blind, however, a lot of people take advantage of these event >> notifications in some form or another, be they spoken or just a sound >> effect. >> >> >> On Mar 9, 2009, at 05:58, Krister Ekstrom wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi, >>> Excuse me here a moment, but what do we want? Do we want a specially >>> made program for the blind or an application that both blind and >>> sighted people alike can use without us stepping on eachothers toes? >>> You may think this question is silly or such, but i think it's >>> relevant since what i've heard is more or less about a specially >>> made >>> program for the blind. My advise maybe is provoking i don't know, >>> but >>> here goes: Don't do anything special. Just make sure all controls >>> are >>> made available to the Apple Accessibility framework, and as i >>> understand it, it can be done by writing the app in Cocoa. If the >>> logic of the controls is very bad, then sure it could use some >>> fixing, >>> but otherwise just make all controls visible to the accessibility >>> framework already in place. >>> /Krister >>> >>> >>> 9 mar 2009 kl. 01.41 skrev Michael Babcock: >>> very good points chris, i agree. Though the self voicing option isn't a 100% thing, in some apps it would truly be nice. mike On Mar 8, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Chris Gilland wrote: > I think it would be cool to use the default voice set via system > preferences and make it where the program can be self voiceing if > needed. Also provide an option to turn on, or off the self > voicing > feature, this way if a user wants to use voice over, great, if > not, > he or she still can do what needs to be done. Also, I would make > your labels for the U I, very discriptive but yet maybe slightly > shorter for the interface that is viewed via a braille display. > This way the point is made but only the absolutely necessary > amount > of cells are used, this way providing more room for other things, > such as the value of the U I control. I may also advise you write > your programs in cocoe as I hear that language is very very voice > over friendly. Finally maybe provide an option for the program to > be able to enable magnification in the program for low vision > usersw. Also maybe provide an option to turn the programs st. > > This way it even helps low vision users as well as us like myself > who are nearly compltely total. > > Chris. > > > Do you use Twitter? If so, then, I'd love! for you to follow me. > My twitter URL is: > > http://twitter.com/chris28210 > - Original Message - > From: Martin Pilkington > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 8:25 PM > Subject: Understanding Blind Us
ISpeak 0.4 released now
Hi, All, We are making some headway. For a project started last night we are doing marvelous. Well, what is new in this version. At Sandy's Recomendation I got the precompiled copy of eSpeak for Mac. Now it actually works properly on the Command-line. Also I have included two of the modules that form the backbone of the VIP-Toolkit Accessibility API. In the next few versions I will release the VIP-Toolkit Accessibility API. Why you may ask. Well to save the trouble of writing Apple wrappers for each voice. http://www.vipbc.org/downloads/ispeak-0.3.zip Thanks, Alex, --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
IMPORTANT - Pole about future of MacVisionaries
Hello all, first off, please do not reply to this note. Details are below on this. I think I've come up with a workable solution for those listers who want a more informational list as well as those whom would like a more social environment in which to discuss Mac use as visually impaired users. I've come up with two options which I've listed below which I feel can solve this issue once and for all. OPtion 1: I propose we moderate MacVisionaries which would eliminate all but the informational traffic and create a new 'chat-friendly' group where people can simply continue in the current mode of dialogue. I'd still be moderator for the new group, so that it's affairs could be managed, but I wouldn't stop any posts from reaching the list. (so one line responses and such would be fine) Whereas with MacVisionaries, I'd monitor all of it's future posting and only allow posts and relevant discussions through to the list, to manage the list traffic for those who need a lighter quantity of email. Option 2: I propose we keep MacVisionaries as it is now and create a new moderated 'information-only' list. As in the above, the new list posting would be managed so that only informational posts would be seen, and MacVisionaries would remain as it is. Remember, please do not reply to this message, however, I've created a pole at: http://poll.pollcode.com/jg97 where you can vote on this issue and list any comments / opinions you may have either way. NOw, I've not used this site before to set up a pole, so my apologies, as I'm not sure when or if this pole will close, or if it will be completely accessible. It looks good so far, and that's all I can promise. Also, as Moderator, I do reserve the final decision. I created the pole for a reason; I do want to know what people think, but if I realize an important compelling reason to go one way or the other, I'll obviously need to bare that in mind. I'll certainly let y'all know if that happens. For now though, the pole is up, and I'd truly appreciate your votes / opinions on this. I'll check back in with it in about a week and let you all know when I do so and when it will be officially closed, K?… Have a great night and happy voting!… Smiles, Cara :)--- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
