RE: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
I cannot discuss this further when you refuse to give ANY factual data. You publicy trash people (the abuse@ and all the other people behind that ISP) with quite a harsh words, and refuse to back it up with facts. You, yet again, dismiss my attempts to help you, saying it's won't help (???). It seems you don't really want to be helped, but just taking advantage of the free and cheap shot. I will be glad if you can also forward these complaints you say that have been ignored by the abuse@ - I'm also interested to know why they were ignored. If you have sensetive information you don't want posted on this list - you can always mail it to me off-list. I must emphasize this - almost 24 hours after the original flametory post, I still didn't get ANYTHING to work with. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] בשם Arik Baratz Date: ו 25/07/2008 05:21 To: linux-il Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 8:40 AM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Let me get this straight - You claim you already know of a specific user that is abusing you over and over. You complain that this ISP is not willing to help. I'm offering to help you, and I'm in the position to do so. You refuse with the lame excuse I (or the company I work for) might sue you? COME ON. Sounds quite evasive to me. If you really care and want something to be done, you can use my help - If you want to continue with this trolling, please, stop wasting my time. This doesn't become you, Imri. I will send the LIST OF USERS that are spamming me to the abuse address. If hypothetically, you are the ISP discussed, you should be able to help me then. Just give me some time to write a python script to download my spam folders and sort through the headers to find them. Besides, what good does it do to me that you're going to close the users' account this one singular time? I'm talking about years of continued abuse by many of your users. It's not going to be a one-off, and if mail to abuse doesn't seem to help, this one-off isn't going to do much of a difference anyway. So if I automate my scripts to the level that I can trust them to run unattended, I might be able to make it run on a regular basis and send automated messages to abuse, complete with headers and PGP signed, and then create a graph showing exactly how effective the abuse complaints are (i.e. how many messages I got after the first complaint and for how long). It might be an interesting experiment. I have however just recently relocated and am still pretty busy in a new role, location, country and continent so it will take some time. If it works out I might even do it for all Israeli ISPs and track it on a web page... Hmm... -- Arik
Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
Why ISP will spend time to block spammers, when they spend their time to block/shape/inspect p2p, voip and other protocols. After all this saves much more money. I would like to ask a more general question. If spammers from abroad use Israeli ISP, it means that their systems were already compromised. How ISP see such a thing? On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I cannot discuss this further when you refuse to give ANY factual data. You > publicy trash people (the abuse@ and all the other people behind that ISP) > with quite a harsh words, and refuse to back it up with facts. > You, yet again, dismiss my attempts to help you, saying it's won't help > (???). It seems you don't really want to be helped, but just taking > advantage of the free and cheap shot. > > I will be glad if you can also forward these complaints you say that have > been ignored by the abuse@ - I'm also interested to know why they were > ignored. > If you have sensetive information you don't want posted on this list - you > can always mail it to me off-list. > > I must emphasize this - almost 24 hours after the original flametory post, > I still didn't get ANYTHING to work with. > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] בשם Arik Baratz > Date: ו 25/07/2008 05:21 > To: linux-il > Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting > > > > On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 8:40 AM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >Let me get this straight - You claim you already know of a specific > user that is abusing you over and over. You complain that this ISP is not > willing to help. I'm offering to help you, and I'm in the position to do so. >You refuse with the lame excuse I (or the company I work for) might > sue you? COME ON. Sounds quite evasive to me. If you really care and want > something to be done, you can use my help - If you want to continue with > this trolling, please, stop wasting my time. > > > > > This doesn't become you, Imri. > > I will send the LIST OF USERS that are spamming me to the abuse address. If > hypothetically, you are the ISP discussed, you should be able to help me > then. > > Just give me some time to write a python script to download my spam folders > and sort through the headers to find them. > > Besides, what good does it do to me that you're going to close the users' > account this one singular time? I'm talking about years of continued abuse > by many of your users. It's not going to be a one-off, and if mail to abuse > doesn't seem to help, this one-off isn't going to do much of a difference > anyway. > > So if I automate my scripts to the level that I can trust them to run > unattended, I might be able to make it run on a regular basis and send > automated messages to abuse, complete with headers and PGP signed, and then > create a graph showing exactly how effective the abuse complaints are (i.e. > how many messages I got after the first complaint and for how long). It > might be an interesting experiment. I have however just recently relocated > and am still pretty busy in a new role, location, country and continent so > it will take some time. > > If it works out I might even do it for all Israeli ISPs and track it on a > web page... Hmm... > > -- Arik > > >
RE: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
1. This is not a question, but a statement, and quite a stupid one if I may. Do you really expect a serious answer? How are those related? 2. Please clarify this question. From: sara fink [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri 25/07/2008 13:49 To: Imri Zvik Cc: Arik Baratz; linux-il Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting Why ISP will spend time to block spammers, when they spend their time to block/shape/inspect p2p, voip and other protocols. After all this saves much more money. I would like to ask a more general question. If spammers from abroad use Israeli ISP, it means that their systems were already compromised. How ISP see such a thing? On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I cannot discuss this further when you refuse to give ANY factual data. You publicy trash people (the abuse@ and all the other people behind that ISP) with quite a harsh words, and refuse to back it up with facts. You, yet again, dismiss my attempts to help you, saying it's won't help (???). It seems you don't really want to be helped, but just taking advantage of the free and cheap shot. I will be glad if you can also forward these complaints you say that have been ignored by the abuse@ - I'm also interested to know why they were ignored. If you have sensetive information you don't want posted on this list - you can always mail it to me off-list. I must emphasize this - almost 24 hours after the original flametory post, I still didn't get ANYTHING to work with. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] בשם Arik Baratz Date: ו 25/07/2008 05:21 To: linux-il Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 8:40 AM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Let me get this straight - You claim you already know of a specific user that is abusing you over and over. You complain that this ISP is not willing to help. I'm offering to help you, and I'm in the position to do so. You refuse with the lame excuse I (or the company I work for) might sue you? COME ON. Sounds quite evasive to me. If you really care and want something to be done, you can use my help - If you want to continue with this trolling, please, stop wasting my time. This doesn't become you, Imri. I will send the LIST OF USERS that are spamming me to the abuse address. If hypothetically, you are the ISP discussed, you should be able to help me then. Just give me some time to write a python script to download my spam folders and sort through the headers to find them. Besides, what good does it do to me that you're going to close the users' account this one singular time? I'm talking about years of continued abuse by many of your users. It's not going to be a one-off, and if mail to abuse doesn't seem to help, this one-off isn't going to do much of a difference anyway. So if I automate my scripts to the level that I can trust them to run unattended, I might be able to make it run on a regular basis and send automated messages to abuse, complete with headers and PGP signed, and then create a graph showing exactly how effective the abuse complaints are (i.e. how many messages I got after the first complaint and for how long). It might be an interesting experiment. I have however just recently relocated and am still pretty busy in a new role, location, country and continent so it will take some time. If it works out I might even do it for all Israeli ISPs and track it on a web page... Hmm... -- Arik
Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 1. This is not a question, but a statement, and quite a stupid one if I > may. Do you really expect a serious answer? How are those related? Indeed it's a statement. If you didn't understand the sarcasm, too bad. > > > 2. Please clarify this question. The question refers to how spamming works. Hacking into the system-> privelege escalation-> spamming (and this is only one aspect after the system was hacked). DDos is a much nicer effect from the hacker standpoint of view. How ISP deal with the fact that their systems were hacked? > > > > > > > > From: sara fink [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Fri 25/07/2008 13:49 > To: Imri Zvik > Cc: Arik Baratz; linux-il > Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting > > > Why ISP will spend time to block spammers, when they spend their time to > block/shape/inspect p2p, voip and other protocols. After all this saves much > more money. > > I would like to ask a more general question. If spammers from abroad use > Israeli ISP, it means that their systems were already compromised. How ISP > see such a thing? > > > On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >I cannot discuss this further when you refuse to give ANY factual > data. You publicy trash people (the abuse@ and all the other people behind > that ISP) with quite a harsh words, and refuse to back it up with facts. >You, yet again, dismiss my attempts to help you, saying it's won't > help (???). It seems you don't really want to be helped, but just taking > advantage of the free and cheap shot. > >I will be glad if you can also forward these complaints you say that > have been ignored by the abuse@ - I'm also interested to know why they > were ignored. >If you have sensetive information you don't want posted on this list > - you can always mail it to me off-list. > >I must emphasize this - almost 24 hours after the original flametory > post, I still didn't get ANYTHING to work with. > > > > > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] בשם Arik Baratz > > >Date: ו 25/07/2008 05:21 >To: linux-il > > >Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting > > > > >On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 8:40 AM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > Let me get this straight - You claim you already know of a > specific user that is abusing you over and over. You complain that this ISP > is not willing to help. I'm offering to help you, and I'm in the position to > do so. > You refuse with the lame excuse I (or the company I work for) > might sue you? COME ON. Sounds quite evasive to me. If you really care and > want something to be done, you can use my help - If you want to continue > with this trolling, please, stop wasting my time. > > > > >This doesn't become you, Imri. > >I will send the LIST OF USERS that are spamming me to the abuse > address. If hypothetically, you are the ISP discussed, you should be able to > help me then. > >Just give me some time to write a python script to download my spam > folders and sort through the headers to find them. > >Besides, what good does it do to me that you're going to close the > users' account this one singular time? I'm talking about years of continued > abuse by many of your users. It's not going to be a one-off, and if mail to > abuse doesn't seem to help, this one-off isn't going to do much of a > difference anyway. > >So if I automate my scripts to the level that I can trust them to > run unattended, I might be able to make it run on a regular basis and send > automated messages to abuse, complete with headers and PGP signed, and then > create a graph showing exactly how effective the abuse complaints are (i.e. > how many messages I got after the first complaint and for how long). It > might be an interesting experiment. I have however just recently relocated > and am still pretty busy in a new role, location, country and continent so > it will take some time. > >If it works out I might even do it for all Israeli ISPs and track it > on a web page... Hmm... > >-- Arik > > > > > >
Re: Traffic Shaping with OpenVPN
There is a program called trickle. It shapes everything you want. download speed and upload speed. All you have to do is run a command lie this: trickle -d -u your application. In this case it will be vpn. I used it for p2p application. Homepage:http://www.monkey.org/~marius/trickle/ Description: a portable lightweight userspace bandwidth shaper On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Ohad Levy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > why not using normal ip shaping ? > as far as it goes for normal shaping, I'm sure you could find a lot of > information - google is your friend. > about restricting the openvpn traffic, I think that you tag with iptables > all of the vpn traffic and limit the bandwidth with tc. > > Ohad > > > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Noam Rathaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Anyone experienced with traffic shaping general, and with OpenVPN >> specifically? >> >> I want to limit the upstream traffic sent from our VPN server to our VPN >> clients. >> >> I can't use 'shaper' (the OpenVPN command line parameter). >> >> So any suggestion would be welcome. >> >> -- >> Noam Rathaus >> CTO >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> http://www.beyondsecurity.com >> >> "Know that you are safe." >> >> Beyond Security Finalist for the "Red Herring 100 Global" Awards 2007 >> >> = >> To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with >> the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command >> echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> > >
Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 6:30 PM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I cannot discuss this further when you refuse to give ANY factual data. You > publicy trash people (the abuse@ and all the other people behind that ISP) > with quite a harsh words, and refuse to back it up with facts. > So don't. I didn't mean you to. It was a rant. It was a single sided exclamation of my thoughts about the topic. If I wanted your response, I could have asked for it. > You, yet again, dismiss my attempts to help you, saying it's won't help > (???). It seems you don't really want to be helped, but just taking > advantage of the free and cheap shot. > Precisely. This is exactly what I did. I used this stage to rant. Finally, you got it. I must emphasize this - almost 24 hours after the original flametory post, I > still didn't get ANYTHING to work with. > Nor will you, unless you happen to belong to the ISP I was talking about and have access to the abuse mailbox. Actually, I bet the messages to the abuse mailbox are archived somewhere. My name is pretty unique. Since my sophisticated loop detection algorithms detected a loop in this conversation, I will stop responding unless I observe something new. -- Arik
RE: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
Why do you think any system was hacked? It seems you do not understand how it works - they don't hack into any ISP managed system. They don't need to. They either: 1. phish the username and password. 2. get it from *your* computer using a trojan. 3. try and guess easy passwords/usernames. 4. actually *buy* an account, pretending to be your average Moshe from Hulon customer. Spammers from abroad will mostly use methods 1 to 3. From: sara fink [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri 25/07/2008 14:12 To: Imri Zvik Cc: Arik Baratz; linux-il Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 1. This is not a question, but a statement, and quite a stupid one if I may. Do you really expect a serious answer? How are those related? Indeed it's a statement. If you didn't understand the sarcasm, too bad. 2. Please clarify this question. The question refers to how spamming works. Hacking into the system-> privelege escalation-> spamming (and this is only one aspect after the system was hacked). DDos is a much nicer effect from the hacker standpoint of view. How ISP deal with the fact that their systems were hacked? From: sara fink [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri 25/07/2008 13:49 To: Imri Zvik Cc: Arik Baratz; linux-il Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting Why ISP will spend time to block spammers, when they spend their time to block/shape/inspect p2p, voip and other protocols. After all this saves much more money. I would like to ask a more general question. If spammers from abroad use Israeli ISP, it means that their systems were already compromised. How ISP see such a thing? On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I cannot discuss this further when you refuse to give ANY factual data. You publicy trash people (the abuse@ and all the other people behind that ISP) with quite a harsh words, and refuse to back it up with facts. You, yet again, dismiss my attempts to help you, saying it's won't help (???). It seems you don't really want to be helped, but just taking advantage of the free and cheap shot. I will be glad if you can also forward these complaints you say that have been ignored by the abuse@ - I'm also interested to know why they were ignored. If you have sensetive information you don't want posted on this list - you can always mail it to me off-list. I must emphasize this - almost 24 hours after the original flametory post, I still didn't get ANYTHING to work with. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] בשם Arik Baratz Date: ו 25/07/2008 05:21 To: linux-il Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 8:40 AM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Let me get this straight - You claim you already know of a specific user that is abusing you over and over. You complain that this ISP is not willing to help. I'm offering to help you, and I'm in the position to do so. You refuse with the lame excuse I (or the company I work for) might sue you? COME ON. Sounds quite evasive to me. If you really care and want something to be done, you can use my help - If you want to continue with this trolling, please, stop wasting my time. This doesn't become you, Imri. I will send the LIST OF USERS that are spamming me to the abuse address. If hypothetically, you are the ISP discussed, you should be able to help me then. Just give me some time to write a python script to download my spam folders and sort through the headers to find them. Besides, what good does it do to me that you're going to close the users' account this one singular time? I'm talking about years of continued abuse by many of your users. It's not going to be a one-off, and if mail to abuse doesn't seem to help, this one-off isn't going to do much of a difference anyway. So if I automate my scripts to the level that I can trust them to run unattended, I might be able to make it run on a regular basis and send automated messages to abuse, complete with headers and PGP signed, and then create a graph showing exactly how effective the abuse complaints are (i.e. how many me
Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
2008/7/25 Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Why do you think any system was hacked? > > It seems you do not understand how it works - they don't hack into any ISP > managed system. They don't need to. They either: > > 1. phish the username and password. > 2. get it from *your* computer using a trojan. > 3. try and guess easy passwords/usernames. > 4. actually *buy* an account, pretending to be your average Moshe from Hulon > customer. > > Spammers from abroad will mostly use methods 1 to 3. > A very friendly and knowledgeable Frenchman from the Debian list just emailed me about an Israeli spammer that is sending him megabytes of spam everyday- in Hebrew! It appears that this is a case of (4) from your list. How do I determine the ISP from spam email headers? I'd like to call the ISP and complain with a voice, not an email. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
On 25/07/2008, at 18:54, Dotan Cohen wrote: A very friendly and knowledgeable Frenchman from the Debian list just emailed me about an Israeli spammer that is sending him megabytes of spam everyday- in Hebrew! It appears that this is a case of (4) from your list. How do I determine the ISP from spam email headers? I'd like to call the ISP and complain with a voice, not an email. My company (in the US) gets so much Hebrew spam to addresses like noc@ it's amazing. I'd also like to know how to report them. --sambo = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 07:09:49PM +0300, sammy ominsky wrote: > > On 25/07/2008, at 18:54, Dotan Cohen wrote: > > >A very friendly and knowledgeable Frenchman from the Debian list just > >emailed me about an Israeli spammer that is sending him megabytes of > >spam everyday- in Hebrew! It appears that this is a case of (4) from > >your list. How do I determine the ISP from spam email headers? I'd > >like to call the ISP and complain with a voice, not an email. > > > My company (in the US) gets so much Hebrew spam to addresses like noc@ > it's amazing. I'd also like to know how to report them. When a mail client sends mail, the server that receives it adds at the top a Received: line that contains the IP address of the client. This also includes servers, if they decide to forward the mail elsewhere. So the headers contain one or more such lines. The first line that is added by "your side" of the transfer contains the address that you are interested in. Search whois for this address to find out what ISP registered it. -- Didi = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Article in "Yediot Petah Tikva" from today
According to this article (pg. 30-31) in one of Petah Tikva's local newspapers, the municipal education department decided to switch to Linux. Congratulations to the unnamed activists who did the public relations work behind the curtains! --- Omer -- MS-Windows is the Pal-Kal of the PC world. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
On 7/25/08, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Why do you think any system was hacked? > > It seems you do not understand how it works - they don't hack into any ISP > managed system. They don't need to. They either: > > 1. phish the username and password. > 2. get it from *your* computer using a trojan. > 3. try and guess easy passwords/usernames. > 4. actually *buy* an account, pretending to be your average Moshe from Hulon > customer. Stay naive. these are the easy cases. BTW, which ISP hosted the Bank Israel web site? > > Spammers from abroad will mostly use methods 1 to 3. > > > > > > From: sara fink [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Fri 25/07/2008 14:12 > To: Imri Zvik > Cc: Arik Baratz; linux-il > Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting > > > > > On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > 1. This is not a question, but a statement, and quite a stupid one if I > may. Do you really expect a serious answer? How are those related? > > > Indeed it's a statement. If you didn't understand the sarcasm, too bad. > > > > > 2. Please clarify this question. > > > The question refers to how spamming works. > > Hacking into the system-> privelege escalation-> spamming (and this is only > one aspect after the system was hacked). DDos is a much nicer effect from > the hacker standpoint of view. > > How ISP deal with the fact that their systems were hacked? > > > > > > > > > > From: sara fink [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Fri 25/07/2008 13:49 > To: Imri Zvik > Cc: Arik Baratz; linux-il > > > Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting > > > Why ISP will spend time to block spammers, when they spend their time to > block/shape/inspect p2p, voip and other protocols. After all this saves much > more money. > > I would like to ask a more general question. If spammers from abroad use > Israeli ISP, it means that their systems were already compromised. How ISP > see such a thing? > > > On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I cannot discuss this further when you refuse to give ANY factual > data. You publicy trash people (the abuse@ and all the other people behind > that ISP) with quite a harsh words, and refuse to back it up with facts. > You, yet again, dismiss my attempts to help you, saying it's > won't > help (???). It seems you don't really want to be helped, but just taking > advantage of the free and cheap shot. > > I will be glad if you can also forward these complaints you say > that > have been ignored by the abuse@ - I'm also interested to know why they were > ignored. > If you have sensetive information you don't want posted on this > list > - you can always mail it to me off-list. > > I must emphasize this - almost 24 hours after the original > flametory > post, I still didn't get ANYTHING to work with. > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] בשם Arik Baratz > > > Date: ו 25/07/2008 05:21 > To: linux-il > > > Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting > > > > > On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 8:40 AM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > Let me get this straight - You claim you already know of a > specific user that is abusing you over and over. You complain that this ISP > is not willing to help. I'm offering to help you, and I'm in the position to > do so. > You refuse with the lame excuse I (or the company I work > for) > might sue you? COME ON. Sounds quite evasive to me. If you really care and > want something to be done, you can use my help - If you want to continue > with this trolling, please, stop wasting my time. > > > > > This doesn't become you, Imri. > > I will send the LIST OF USERS that are spamming me to the abuse > address. If hypothetically, you are the ISP discussed, you should be able to > help me then. > > Just give me some time to write a python script to download my > spam > folders and sort through the headers to find them. > > Besides, what good does it do to me that you're going to close > the > users' account this one singular time? I'm talking about years of continued > abuse by many of your users. It's not going to be a one-off, and if mail to > abuse doesn't seem to help, this one-off isn't going to do much of a > difference anyway. > > So if I automate my scripts to the level that I can trust them to >
Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
On Friday, 25 בJuly 2008 14:12, sara fink wrote: > Hacking into the system-> privelege escalation-> spamming (and this is only > one aspect after the system was hacked). DDos is a much nicer effect > from the hacker standpoint of view. Actually, this is not quite so. The hackers/hacking scene has changed considerably during the past few years, and there is alot of money involved. Hackers get payed for creating these botnets of hacked computers (also known as drones, zombies ,etc..). They then use these "armies" for whatever the purpose of the person who hired them is. More often than not, this purpose is either spam or phishing. DDoS is rare nowadays, and most of the money comes from spam and phishing, at least when compared with DDoS. --Ariel -- Ariel Biener e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP: http://www.tau.ac.il/~ariel/pgp.html To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting [summary and stop]
On Thursday, 24 בJuly 2008 23:39, Oron Peled wrote: While I do have a faint hope to see this thread die eventually, and I avoided saying anything so far, I do want to make one or two contributions, mostly factual, and some based on my own experience and beliefs, so bear with me. 1. SPAM is here to stay, mostly due to human nature. For people who want to sell something, this is an easy and cheap way to get more clients. This is from the human psychology/sociology point of view 2. SPAM is here to stay, from a technical point of view, due to the fact that SMTP (and the following RFCs that enhance it) were not designed to deal with sender authenticity. In fact, I believe that up to this day, an RFC compliant mail system is required to accept the following: MAIL FROM:<> 3. ISPs should, in general, serve as a model of the phone system, that is, their job, as long as the law doesn't say otherwise, is to pass the packet of their user to wherever this packet may want to go. ISPs were not chartered to be a census. Of course that laws extend this bit, but this is in general what ISPs should do. Breaking this model in order to combat SPAM will destroy something, that to me is at the core of what an ISP should do on one hand, and it will NOT win the fight for the "spam fighters", it'll be just another step in this escalation war. Remeber that the budgets available for the people who want to SPAM and their interests are far too great to not overcome this. 4. As long as there are people who want to sell something, and who desperately need the clients, the race between the spammers and the "spam fighters" will continue, and will escalate. SPAM will cease only when it becomes non profitable to the SPAM originators. That is, the day when using SPAM to advertise will no longer prove useful (aka wont generate enough income, or more efficient ways of electronic advertising will arrise) that is the day when SPAM will die. 5. ISPs should, despite what I portray in point 3., behave responsibly. That requires a responsive and understanding crowd though, that is, the customers. For example, the default dynamic IP account at an ISP should include a preset services base. Adding more services (like opening port 25) should be done per request (opt in), and might also be something you need to pay for (as you increase the liability of the ISP itself). Think of it as advanced user account. Of course you'll have to sign whatever document required, etc. 6. Another point I thought about is that a customer who is repeatedly hacked, (trojaned, etc) should be limited in access, and he should be offered a protection pack from the ISP, which includes a basic training in Internet dangers, and also A/V, antispyware, App firewall etc, and also that his traffic should be proxied and cleaned on it's way out. Of course that his "package" will be more expensive, due to him being a liability. Think of insurance companies. When one becomes a liability (repeated cases), the insurance company will either refuse to insure you anymore, or will charge more for the same coverage, due to the customer being a liability. Just to make sure, I believe that the Israeli customer (on the avg.) is far from the point of caring whether his/her actions hurt others, and as such is not ready for the above described ideas. In this case, what is needed is an ISP who will be pioneer and take this road. Others will follow suit eventually. 7. I do believe that some people on this list, while they have a theoretical point of view on how things should operate, lack the understanding of how things really turn out to be in the real world of ISP operations. Forgetting that the ISPs first, and foremost interest is to make money and make their shareholders happy is a fatal error, on the part of theoreticians. That however doesn't mean that everything ISPs do is acceptable, and sometimes very far from it. A balanced view however, that understands both the theory, and the practice is needed to be able to solve problems in the real ISP world. I bid you all a nice weekend. --Ariel -- Ariel Biener e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP: http://www.tau.ac.il/~ariel/pgp.html To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
