date:20170320



Am 20.03.2017 um 11:38 schrieb Menu Jacques:
> I’ve noticed that only the following languages:
> 
>   nederlands deutsch english espanol or espa~nol français italiano 
> portugues
> 
> are mentioned at page 9 regarding:
> 
>   semi-sharp semi-flat sesqui-sharp sesqui-flat
> 
> accidentals.
> 
> How does one write them in catalan, norsk, suomi, svenska and flaams?

Quarter tone names aren’t defined for these languages in the file
scm/define-note-names.scm.

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Re: MIssing semi-sharp, semi-flat , sesqui-sharp, and sesqui-flat names in some languages in LPNR 2.19.56

2017-03-20 Thread Jacques Menu Muzhic

Hello Malte,

Thanks, I was afraid it was missing information in the docs.

A nice day!

JM

> Le 20 mars 2017 à 12:04, Malte Meyn  a écrit :
> 
> 
> 
> Am 20.03.2017 um 11:38 schrieb Menu Jacques:
>> I’ve noticed that only the following languages:
>> 
>>  nederlands deutsch english espanol or espa~nol français italiano 
>> portugues
>> 
>> are mentioned at page 9 regarding:
>> 
>>  semi-sharp semi-flat sesqui-sharp sesqui-flat
>> 
>> accidentals.
>> 
>> How does one write them in catalan, norsk, suomi, svenska and flaams?
> 
> Quarter tone names aren’t defined for these languages in the file
> scm/define-note-names.scm.
> 
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Parallel Square Premusic

Hello guys, I am Vac.
 
I have invented an extremely robust and perfectly extensible plaintext file 
format called Parallel Squares.
 
The prototypical use of this format is to encode premusic (I use this word to 
describe instructions for how to play music, as opposed to any audio recording 
- thus, what is commonly called "sheet music" I would call instead "sheet 
premusic"). Here is "Happy Birthday", rendered in my format, based off of this 
image.
 
 
Happy Birthday
[]ly  
Hap___birth___Hap___birth___Hap___birth___..._Hap___birth_
[]ly  
_-py___-day-py___-day-py___-day___...__-py___-day_
[]ly  
__to__you!__to__you!__dear_to__you!___
[]pi  
D4D4||E4D4G4||F$--D4D4||E4D4A4||G4--D4D4||D5B4G4||F$--E4--C5C5||B4G4A4||G4
[]rh  
daad||dadada||daaadaad||dadada||daaadaad||dadada||daaadaaadaad||dadada||daaa--

[]pi  
D4--||--D4D4||A3--A3--||--A3A3||D4--D4--||--D4D4||G4--G4--||--D4D4||D4
[]pi  
B3--||--B3B3||F#--F#--||--F#F#||B3--B3--||--B3B3||E3--E3--||--B3C4||B3
[]pi  
G2--G3--||G2G3G3||D2--D3--D3--||D2D3D3||G2--G3--G3--||G2G3G3||C2--C3--C3--||G2G3F#||G3G2--
[]rh  
daaadaaa||dadada||daaadaaadaaa||dadada||daaadaaadaaa||dadada||daaadaaadaad||dadada||dada--
 
 
The format is comprised of squares, that is, pairs of characters rather than 
single characters. This allows for exponentially many more useful symbols than 
there are keys on a keyboard.
 
Each column of squares refers to the same interval of time in the music. This 
gives my format a perfect inherent vertical extensibility unlike any else - if 
you want to say something more about the twentieth note, you need only make a 
newline and position the cursor above the twentieth note, and add squares 
describing what you want to describe. Note that different measures have 
different resolutions - width in squares. Only measures with many fast notes 
need many squares - a whole note measure could very well be just ||da||.
 
The first square of each line after the literal square [] describes the type of 
content contained in that line. "rh" is rhythm - two quarter notes and a half 
note could be "dadadaaa". What more could you need? Pitch is in scientific 
pitch notation (eg C5), which allows for all the natural notes to be 
represented by a single square. Sharps and flats may be obtained by lowercasing 
the letter for a flat or, for example, "D%" for "D5 sharp". (Look at your 
keyboard!)
 
Not all lyrics may be crunched into square characters; by stacking over 
sufficiently many multiple lines, we can both include unabridged lyrics and 
assign each word or syllable to a column of squares.

 
Besides lyrics, every aspect of premusic such as dynamics should be 
representable in parallel square form with little imagination.
 
I am fairly comfortably able to compose PSPremusic in a simple text editor, but 
it's not optimized for the purpose. Ideally, there would be a text editor that 
is suited for parallel squares - slightly more spacing between squares than 
between characters, doubly spaced cursor, horizontal scroll support, 
creation/deletion of an entire row or column simultaneously to maintain parity. 
Features informed by the realities of music could be snippets of code or 
plugins - suppose the user could push a key on his keyboard in step with a song 
and automatically generate a correct rhythm line?
 
Alas, I am not a coder, and would have to hire one to have the program made 
competently, if I wanted to monetize this, as I thought for a while. But I have 
realized over time that this extremely powerful format would be best released 
to the free software community at large for mobilization.
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Re: Parallel Square Premusic

2017-03-20 Thread Andrew Bernard

Hello Vac,

Welcome to the lilypond community.

What are you asking us?

Andrew
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[no subject]

2017-03-20 Thread Carlos R Martinez

Hello,

Is it possible to use lily pond online from a server so I can use it on
my chromebook!
thanks

cr
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Re:

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Carlos R Martinez  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Is it possible to use lily pond online from a server so I can use it on
> my chromebook!
> thanks

http://lilybin.com/

>
> cr
>
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-- 

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 soundcloud.com/jefferyshivers

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Re: Help - Align staff to the middle of page.

2017-03-20 Thread Knute Snortum

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 2:57 PM, Allen Wu  wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> Anyone knows how to align music staff to the middle of the page instead of
> the top?
>

I guess you could fake it with top-margin:

\version "2.19.56"

\relative { c'4 d e f | g f e d | c1 | }

\paper {
  top-margin = 100
}

---
Knute Snortum
(via Gmail)


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Re:

2017-03-20 Thread Martin Tarenskeen


Yes, Lilybin is cool.

I would like to see some of the functionality of Lilybin - uploading a 
lilypond file and downloading the resulting PDF and MIDI files - in the 
form of a commandline tool, without the fancy GUI webbrowser functionality. 
Would such a commandline interface to the Lilybin server be possible to 
create? Maybe it's even possible already?


Martin



Op 20 maart 2017 3:59:53 PM schreef Jeffery Shivers :

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Carlos R Martinez  
wrote:

Hello,

Is it possible to use lily pond online from a server so I can use it on
my chromebook!
thanks


http://lilybin.com/



cr

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--

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 soundcloud.com/jefferyshivers

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Re:

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Martin Tarenskeen
 wrote:
> Yes, Lilybin is cool.
>
> I would like to see some of the functionality of Lilybin - uploading a
> lilypond file and downloading the resulting PDF and MIDI files - in the form
> of a commandline tool, without the fancy GUI webbrowser functionality. Would
> such a commandline interface to the Lilybin server be possible to create?

Certainly, I would think. Maybe even for "free" with something like
EC2 (though I don't know what the traffic limits are for that without
paying).

BTW, do you mean a sort of minimal CLI in the browser, or actually a
way to reach the server from your own?

> Maybe it's even possible already?

I don't think so.

>
> Martin
>
>
>
> Op 20 maart 2017 3:59:53 PM schreef Jeffery Shivers
> :
>
>
>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Carlos R Martinez 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Is it possible to use lily pond online from a server so I can use it
>>> on
>>> my chromebook!
>>> thanks
>>
>>
>> http://lilybin.com/
>>
>>>
>>> cr
>>>
>>> ___
>>> lilypond-user mailing list
>>> lilypond-user@gnu.org
>>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Jeffery Shivers
>>  jefferyshivers.com
>>  soundcloud.com/jefferyshivers
>>
>> ___
>> lilypond-user mailing list
>> lilypond-user@gnu.org
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
>
>



-- 

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 jefferyshivers.com
 soundcloud.com/jefferyshivers

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Re:

2017-03-20 Thread Urs Liska



Am 20.03.2017 um 17:02 schrieb Jeffery Shivers:
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Martin Tarenskeen
>  wrote:
>> Yes, Lilybin is cool.
>>
>> I would like to see some of the functionality of Lilybin - uploading a
>> lilypond file and downloading the resulting PDF and MIDI files - in the form
>> of a commandline tool, without the fancy GUI webbrowser functionality. Would
>> such a commandline interface to the Lilybin server be possible to create?
> Certainly, I would think. Maybe even for "free" with something like
> EC2 (though I don't know what the traffic limits are for that without
> paying).
>
> BTW, do you mean a sort of minimal CLI in the browser, or actually a
> way to reach the server from your own?

Well, I don't know about LilyPond, but it should definitely be quite
simple to do for someone who has access to a web server running
LilyPond. Create an HTTP server that takes a LilyPond document as the
body in a request, process it with LilyPond, return the document. Then
write a CLI script in any language that takes a LilyPond file as an
argument and performs the HTTP call.

This could be a really simple app, but of course LilyPond on the server
would have to be limited for security reasons. I mean, doing harm on the
server with LilyPond Scheme sounds strange, and I can't imagine anyone
with the required skills would be doing that, but you'll never know ...

Urs

>> Maybe it's even possible already?
> I don't think so.
>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>> Op 20 maart 2017 3:59:53 PM schreef Jeffery Shivers
>> :
>>
>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Carlos R Martinez 
>>> wrote:
 Hello,

 Is it possible to use lily pond online from a server so I can use it
 on
 my chromebook!
 thanks
>>>
>>> http://lilybin.com/
>>>
 cr

 ___
 lilypond-user mailing list
 lilypond-user@gnu.org
 https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Jeffery Shivers
>>>  jefferyshivers.com
>>>  soundcloud.com/jefferyshivers
>>>
>>> ___
>>> lilypond-user mailing list
>>> lilypond-user@gnu.org
>>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>>
>>
>
>

-- 
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http://lilypondblog.org


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Re: Help - Align staff to the middle of page.

2017-03-20 Thread Kieren MacMillan

Hi Allen,

> Anyone knows how to align music staff to the middle of the page instead of 
> the top?

This should give you a hint about what parameters to consider:

\version "2.19.54"

\paper {
tagline = ##f
ragged-bottom = ##f
ragged-last-bottom = ##f
top-system-spacing =
#'((basic-distance . 10) (stretchability . 100))
last-bottom-spacing =
#'((basic-distance . 10) (stretchability . 100))
}

<<
\new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff { c''1 1 \bar "||" }
\new Staff { c''1 1 }
>>
\new Staff { c''1 1 }
>>

Hope that helps!
Kieren.



Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: Midi velocity output

2017-03-20 Thread Tim Aldegarmann

Hi! Thank you! 
Tim



--
View this message in context: 
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Midi-velocity-output-tp201139p201279.html
Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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RE: Re: Parallel Square Premusic

Well, I have never begun a project like this before and am a little intimidated 
by the potential it has in the field of music. I have furthermore noticed that 
a similarly structured parallel square format could entirely separately 
revolutionize the International Phonetic Alphabet, by rendering all phonemes 
available with a single square stroke of the keyboard, and postulate that there 
are almost certainly other uses of this format. I look forward to having a text 
editor that is optimized for parallel square content, but even as it is, it's 
fairly quick and to compose music in this extremely robust format with programs 
that exist.
 
I don't seek to detract from Lilypond at any point, it will always have its 
place, but I think there is undoubtedly much potential in my .txt to your 
.docx, if you will, and I was wondering if anyone in this mailing list would be 
open to discussing and working with me on it? I don't even really know where to 
get started haha... Not an endorsement, but Richard Stallman told me that an 
Emacs mode would be a wise step. What else?
 
I'm very certain that Parallel Squares will revolutionize the field of music 
notation. There simply has never been anything like it.
 
Viral Anticapital
http://anti.capital
 
 
- Original Message - Subject: Re: Parallel Square Premusic
From: "Andrew Bernard" 
Date: 3/20/17 9:34 am
To: "lilypond-user Mailinglist" 

Hello Vac,


Welcome to the lilypond community.


What are you asking us?


Andrew

  





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Decrease space between header and staff

2017-03-20 Thread Allan

Hello, all. I need to reduce the space between the header (specifically,
the piece) and the staff.

I found a post to this mailing list from awhile back about increasing this
space, but I have not been able to adapt the solution to decrease it
instead. As far as I can tell (and I very easily may be wrong), this
spacing is not "within a system," so the bulk of the documentation on
vertical spacing doesn't seem applicable. Lilypond has not honored my
attempts to use negative \vspace.

Any ideas?

Thank you,
Cal
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Re: Parallel Square Premusic

2017-03-20 Thread David Kastrup

 writes:

> I'm very certain that Parallel Squares will revolutionize the field of
> music notation. There simply has never been anything like it.

But there have been statements like that for every discipline of science
and arts a billion times over.  It's almost a telltale sign where they
lead when you just need someone else to figure out the unimportant
details and do all the work.

You might want to look at music braille which also gets along with a
finite number of symbols.  There is a reason it is used almost
exclusively by blind musicians.  There are various forms of piano roll
writing systems all of which were to revolutionize music notation, and
uniform keyboard systems promising the same.  Of the latter, only the
chromatic button accordion was significantly successful and, judging
from the respective non-impact on pianos, organs and harmoniums, not as
much because of its revolutionary approach to intervals but mostly
because of the space and weight advantages for a portable hand bellows
instrument.

I am not saying that a division of labor can't work: I play an accordion
myself that Morino constructed, having an adjustable chord octave as
specified by the musician it has been built for.  The construction
actually never took off but I am certainly glad I have one of the
handful of instruments containing it.

Now you are setting out to revolutionalize music notation.  How
experienced are you with it?  What kind of instrument have you studied
to a degree where the shortcomings of traditional notation to represent
the music interfere with your ability to compose?

So far, it looks like you have a vague idea and are willing to "donate"
it to the world at large as long as somebody else does the actual work.

This is not how innovation works.  You'll need to carry a whole lot more
of the weight you want to see lifted than that if you want your idea to
be successful, and even then it is highly unlikely that you will gain
more than a handful of followers.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Decrease space between header and staff

2017-03-20 Thread Kieren MacMillan

Hi Cal,

> I need to reduce the space between the header (specifically, the piece) and 
> the staff. 

Define a custom scoreTitleMarkup — you can make the space “arbitrarily small”.

Hope this helps!
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: Parallel Square Premusic

2017-03-20 Thread Werner LEMBERG


>> I'm very certain that Parallel Squares will revolutionize the field
>> of music notation.  There simply has never been anything like it.
> 
> But there have been statements like that for every discipline of
> science and arts a billion times over.  It's almost a telltale sign
> where they lead when you just need someone else to figure out the
> unimportant details and do all the work.

Regarding science, there's the famous quote from Isaac Asimov:

  The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds
  new discoveries, is not `Eureka!' but `That's funny...'

I can apply this saying to music: progress in notation usually derives
from an urgent need or necessity – so what does your notation that
other systems cannot do at all, or cannot do adequately or in a
convenient manner?


Werner
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Re: Decrease space between header and staff

2017-03-20 Thread Kieren MacMillan

Hi Cal,

> I wish I could say it does, but I'm afraid I’m too novice to go on just that. 
> I looked at scoreTitleMarkup already, but without any spacing commands in it 
> already for me to modify, I'm not really sure what changes to make. I tried 
> the naive vspace I mentioned, but it did not work. Could you please point me 
> to the place from which scoreTitleMarkup inherits its spacing?

Does this help more?

\version "2.19.54"

\paper {
ragged-right = ##f
scoreTitleMarkup = \markup \fontsize #12 \fill-line { "Title" }
markup-system-spacing =
#'((basic-distance . 0) ( minimum-distance . 0) (padding . 0) 
(stretchability. 0))
}

\new Staff { \clef bass f1 }

As you can see, there is essentially no space between the title and the staff.

Cheers,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re:

2017-03-20 Thread Trevor

It's not hard to hit LilyBin from the command line, but the interface isn't
great. Try curl -X POST -H "Content-Type:application/json"
https://7icpm9qr6a.execute-api.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/prod/prepare_preview/stable
-d '{"code": "% LilyBin\n\\score{\n\t{\n\t\t\\repeat unfold 120 { c4. d e f
}\n\t}\n\n\t\\layout{}\n\t\\midi{}\n}\n"}'.

The response will include an "id" field. You can download the result from
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/lilybin-scores/${id}.pdf.

LilyBin used to run on a single server just as Urs described, and after
about 2 years, somebody ran some Scheme code that goofed up the server (rm
-rf . or something). We changed it so compilation happened in an ephemeral
Docker container; now it runs on AWS Lambda.

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 5:14 PM Urs Liska  wrote:

>
>
> Am 20.03.2017 um 17:02 schrieb Jeffery Shivers:
> > On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Martin Tarenskeen
> >  wrote:
> >> Yes, Lilybin is cool.
> >>
> >> I would like to see some of the functionality of Lilybin - uploading a
> >> lilypond file and downloading the resulting PDF and MIDI files - in the
> form
> >> of a commandline tool, without the fancy GUI webbrowser functionality.
> Would
> >> such a commandline interface to the Lilybin server be possible to
> create?
> > Certainly, I would think. Maybe even for "free" with something like
> > EC2 (though I don't know what the traffic limits are for that without
> > paying).
> >
> > BTW, do you mean a sort of minimal CLI in the browser, or actually a
> > way to reach the server from your own?
>
> Well, I don't know about LilyPond, but it should definitely be quite
> simple to do for someone who has access to a web server running
> LilyPond. Create an HTTP server that takes a LilyPond document as the
> body in a request, process it with LilyPond, return the document. Then
> write a CLI script in any language that takes a LilyPond file as an
> argument and performs the HTTP call.
>
> This could be a really simple app, but of course LilyPond on the server
> would have to be limited for security reasons. I mean, doing harm on the
> server with LilyPond Scheme sounds strange, and I can't imagine anyone
> with the required skills would be doing that, but you'll never know ...
>
> Urs
>
> >> Maybe it's even possible already?
> > I don't think so.
> >
> >> Martin
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Op 20 maart 2017 3:59:53 PM schreef Jeffery Shivers
> >> :
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Carlos R Martinez <
> car...@sembrare.com>
> >>> wrote:
>  Hello,
> 
>  Is it possible to use lily pond online from a server so I can use
> it
>  on
>  my chromebook!
>  thanks
> >>>
> >>> http://lilybin.com/
> >>>
>  cr
> 
>  ___
>  lilypond-user mailing list
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> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Jeffery Shivers
> >>>  jefferyshivers.com
> >>>  soundcloud.com/jefferyshivers
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> lilypond-user mailing list
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> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
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> http://lilypondblog.org
>
>
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Re: Determine \voiceXXX implicitly

2017-03-20 Thread David Kastrup

u...@openlilylib.org writes:

> Hi,
>
> I recall that we had such a discussion some years ago when we worked
> at the Layout Control Options for Frescobaldi. IIRC there wasn't a
> viable solution, but maybe things have changed and maybe I know more
> today ...
>
> Is it possible to determine from inspecting a grob whether its
> properties have been set automatically or by explicit voice
> attribution? Concretely I'm talking about attribution through the << {
> } \\ { } >> construct.
>
> When dealing with a Tie or Slur object I can see its 'direction
> property, but I can't see if that has been calculated automatically,
> manually overridden through \override or \tweak, or set through a
> \voiceXXX command or the polyphony construct.
>
> But *is* there a way to determine such a situation? I think the
> \voiceXXX commands only set a number of properties, but there's no
> information about that "act", right? What I could imagine is adding a
> custom grob property and set this by redefining \voiceXXX. But can I
> do something comparable for the temporary polyphony construct?
>
> I need this because in my current project I need to place ties not
> according to LilyPond's algorithms but always opposite of the stem
> direction - but only in a \oneVoice context. With \voiceOne also ties
> have to go upwards, just like usual.
>
> Any suggestions?

Put the corresponding direction callback override at Staff level or
anywhere outside of Voice, then it will be overriden by \voice... or
{ \\ }.

-- 
David Kastrup

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What can Premusic do that others can't?

Well, let's think about this.

Sheet music, which I prefer to call sheet premusic, was developed over 
centuries to be comfortably written by hand. In the year 2017, premusic is 
encoded into a computer via really complicated file formats like MusicXML or 
Lilypond designed to describe sheet premusic written on paper exactly as it has 
been for centuries. There's no simple way to fully describe sheet music, 
because it isn't optimized for the computer environment. MusicXML and Lilypond 
are the .docx and .odt of the field, if you will, and Sibelius and Finale are 
Microsoft Words - where is the notepad.exe? There is none, because no 
equivalent of the .txt file format of full competence has been made. I'll look 
at all relevant formats here:

Lilypond

I have nothing to say about Lilypond. Sheet music will always exist and always 
be used, and it is important that there exist a free file format like Lilypond 
for computer composition of sheet music. I simply think there needs to be a 
competent plaintext option, and there is none.

MusicXML

MusicXML is especially odd to me... In an XHTML document, what comes after a 
? Who knows? It could be an , a , anything. In music, what comes 
after a note? Another note - or a space where a note should be. Music is 
plainly linear where XML is not optimized for linear information. XML may seem 
the most obvious choice for an 'industry standard' file format for many things, 
but it is an unwise solution here.

In any case, it's not something you'd compose in a text editor.

ABC notation

X:1
T:The Legacy Jig
M:6/8
L:1/8
R:jig
K:G
GFG BAB | gfg gab | GFG BAB | d2A AFD |
GFG BAB | gfg gab | age edB |1 dBA AFD :|2 dBA ABd |:
efe edB | dBA ABd | efe edB | gdB ABd |
efe edB | d2d def | gfe edB |1 dBA ABd :|2 dBA AFD |]

ABC is simple, likely quickly intelligible by most everyone with a music theory 
background, but it is a shorthand form of musical notation. This already 
implies it is lacking in some way: namely, it lacks the perfect and intuitive 
vertical extensibility of Premusic.

GUIDO notation:

[ \clef<"treble"> \key<"D"> \meter<"4/4">
 a1*1/2 b a/4. g/8 f#/4 g a/2 b a/4. g/8 f#/4 g
 a/2 a b c#2/4 d c#/2 b1 a/1 ]

GUIDO is simple, but not quite as quickly intelligible without explanation as 
ABC or my format. GUIDO lacks the perfect and intuitive extensibility of my 
format, and isn't nearly as easy on the eyes.

MIDI:

MIDI is not plaintext, where plaintext would suffice. It is a black mark for a 
file not to be legible in a text editor. It's more code before any software 
dealing with it can be functional.

Premusic

These are the first measures of Beethoven's Fifth in premusic.

Symphony no. 5 (Page 1)
Beethoven
#!sh  key=Cm

Clarinet
#!pi  
--G4G4G4||e4||--F4F4F4||D4||--||||||||--||||||||--||||||||
#!rh  
--dadada||da||--dadada||da||aa||||||||--||||||||--||||||||

Bassoon
#!pi  
||--||||--||--||||C4--||||--||||B3--||||--||||C4--||B3--||
#!rh  
||--||||--||--||||daaa||||aa||||daaa||||aa||||daaa||daaa||

Violin I
#!pi  
--G4G4G4||e4||--F4F4F4||D4||--||||||--e5e5e5||C5||||||--F5F5F5||D5||--G5G5F5||e5--||D5G5G5F5||
#!rh  
--dadada||da||--dadada||da||aa||||||--dadada||da||||||--dadada||da||aadadada||daaa||aadadada||

Violin II
#!pi  
--G4G4G4||e4||--F4F4F4||D4||--||--G4G4G4||e4--||||--||--G4G4G4||D4--||||G4||||--e4e4F4||G4--||
#!rh  
--dadada||da||--dadada||da||aa||--dadada||daaa||||aa||aadadada||daaa||||da||||aadadada||daaa||

Viola
#!pi  
--G3G3G3||e3||--F3F3F3||D3||--||||--a4a4a4||G4--||--||||--a4a4a4||G4--||D4||||e4e4e4F4||G4--||
#!rh  
--dadada||da||--dadada||da||aa||||--dadada||daaa||aa||||--dadada||daaa||da||||dadadada||daaa||

Cello
#!pi  
--G2G2G2||e2||--F2F2F2||D2||--||||C4--||||--||||B3--||||--||||C4--||B3--||
#!rh  
--dadada||da||--dadada||da||aa||||daaa||||aa||||daaa||||aa||||daaa||daaa||

Bass
#!pi  
--G3G3G3||e3||--F3F3F3||D3||--||||||||--||||||||--||||||||
#!rh  
--dadada||da||--dadada||da||aa||||||||--||||||||--||||||||

My format is intelligible to anyone with a music theory background, with 
minimal instruction besides perhaps to read pairs of characters rather than 
individual ones.

"rh"ythm - You need no background to pronounce "dadadaaa", and having done so, 
you will have conveyed to yourself a rh

Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?



Am 20.03.2017 um 22:48 schrieb have@anti.capital:
> These are the first measures of Beethoven's Fifth in premusic.

This is missing tempo, fermatas and dynamics.

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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

2017-03-20 Thread David Kastrup

 writes:

> Why don't I ask you to name a notation that does something that
> Parallel Squares could NOT do? Or, if I reversed the roles, and every
> tune on http://abcnotation.com were in my notation, and I approached,
> telling you about the ABC or GUIDO notation I invented, would you see
> any merit in it, or any real reason to implement ABC or GUIDO... Ever?

Sure.  LilyPond was created by the same authors who wrote Mpp, a music
preprocessor for MusiXTeX which is somewhat similarly compact and
cryptic as your proposal.

Semilinear notations haven't made the race in math (how great it would
be if you'd express every mathematical formula in FORTRAN, how easy to
understand and derive proofs, right?) or in music (Gregorian neumes are
basically linearly written and preceded the square notation which
followed it).

How do you expect to notate heptuplets against trioles?  Least common
multiple?  Good luck reading your voice as set against that of other
voices and figuring out the relation to the beat.  Have you tried
setting some polyrhythmic Chopin with your system and actually _playing_
it?

What is your actual musical background and proficiency?

> But in any case, I am not a programmer, and have never participated in
> the creation of free software.

Are you a musician?  What instrument do you play at what level of
proficiency?

> Before you dismiss my format, and now that you have a sense for how it
> works, I implore you to at least try composing in a text editor, any
> piece of music, simple for now, to feel how natural it is. Think about
> what this could do - one could comfortably convey all the information
> conveyed by sheet music, using only notepad.exe.

Reality check: LilyPond source can be written using only notepad.exe and
conveys all the information written down.  So can abc.  So can Mpp,
MusixTeX, MuTeX and others.

> There's nothing like it.

That is not valuable in itself.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Changing spacing for a fall

2017-03-20 Thread Ralph Palmer

Greetings -

I'm running LilyPond 2.19.50 under Windows 7 and Frescobaldi.

I'd like to increase the spacing between two notes, to accommodate a fall.
I've checked "spacing" issues in the Notation Reference and in the snippet
repository, but can't find anything that will increase the distance between
just two notes.

I will attach a scan of what I'm trying to do, as well as the PDF of the ly
file.

Here's my initial attempt vial LilyPond :

%% start snippet %%%

\version "2.19.50"
\include "english.ly"

fallTest =
%\relative c'
{
  \clef treble
  \key d \major
  \time 4/4

  e''4 e'' d''4-\bendAfter #-3 cs''8 e'' |
}

\score {
  \fallTest
}

%%% end snippet %%%

I appreciate your time and attention,

Ralph

-- 
Ralph Palmer
Brattleboro, VT
USA
palmer.r.vio...@gmail.com


fall_test.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: Parallel Square Premusic

Am 20.03.2017 um 02:11 schrieb have@anti.capital:
> I have invented an extremely robust and perfectly extensible plaintext file 
> format called Parallel Squares.
This sounds very promising, let’s do a partial fact check.

> premusic (I use this word to describe instructions for how to play music, […])
Look mom, I invented a word! Besides of that: You cannot play from those
scores as they are huge.

> []ly  
> Hap___birth___Hap___birth___Hap___birth___..._Hap___birth_
> []ly  
> _-py___-day-py___-day-py___-day___...__-py___-day_
> []ly  
> __to__you!__to__you!__dear_to__you!___
This isn’t readable.

> []pi  
> D4--||--D4D4||A3--A3--||--A3A3||D4--D4--||--D4D4||G4--G4--||--D4D4||D4
> []pi  
> B3--||--B3B3||F#--F#--||--F#F#||B3--B3--||--B3B3||E3--E3--||--B3C4||B3
> []pi  
> G2--G3--||G2G3G3||D2--D3--D3--||D2D3D3||G2--G3--G3--||G2G3G3||C2--C3--C3--||G2G3F#||G3G2--
This seems to be how you do chords. So for Liszt piano music you need 16
lines of text instead of two or four as in traditional notation?

> This allows for exponentially many more useful symbols than there are keys on 
> a keyboard.
Not exponentially. Quadratically. And not every possible combination is
also useful.

> Only measures with many fast notes need many squares - a whole note measure 
> could very well be just ||da||.
1 | 2... 32 (LilyPond)
vs.
||d||daad|| (PSP)
This is one fast note, not many.

> Sharps and flats may be obtained by lowercasing the letter for a flat or, for 
> example, "D%" for "D5 sharp". (Look at your keyboard!)
Are you serious? No double accidentals (you called the format “perfectly
extensible” if I remember correctly), flats and sharps are totally
differently coded, and you depend on a f***ing keyboard layout? This is
as far from robust as the format is from being a standard that people
will use (I’m sorry to say that because you put much work and thoughts
in it but I cannot imagine any musician using this).

> I am fairly comfortably able to compose PSPremusic in a simple text editor, 
> but it's not optimized for the purpose. […]
Throughout the thread you mention notepad.exe several times. But here we
see that this isn’t realistic at all. Other languages like LilyPond are
realistically handled with in a simple text editor (ok, syntax
highlighting is nice but most editors have that). And they have the
advantage that you can have the corresponding traditional notation in
another window (f. e. as a PDF).

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RE: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

 []tm  108
[]dy  ff

Fermatas I want to discuss with others before I make very specific plans. I 
don't see much reason for an entire newline of squares for fermatas, when 
"daa!" could be equivalent to "daaa" with a fermata. That's just one way to do 
it.

- Original Message - Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that 
others can't?
From: "Malte Meyn" 
Date: 3/20/17 5:14 pm
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org

 Am 20.03.2017 um 22:48 schrieb have@anti.capital:
 > These are the first measures of Beethoven's Fifth in premusic.

 This is missing tempo, fermatas and dynamics.

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- Original Message - Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that 
others can't?
From: "David Kastrup" 
Date: 3/20/17 5:16 pm
To: have@anti.capital
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org

 writes:

 > Why don't I ask you to name a notation that does something that
 > Parallel Squares could NOT do? Or, if I reversed the roles, and every
 > tune on http://abcnotation.com were in my notation, and I approached,
 > telling you about the ABC or GUIDO notation I invented, would you see
 > any merit in it, or any real reason to implement ABC or GUIDO... Ever?

 Sure. LilyPond was created by the same authors who wrote Mpp, a music
 preprocessor for MusiXTeX which is somewhat similarly compact and
 cryptic as your proposal.

 Semilinear notations haven't made the race in math (how great it would
 be if you'd express every mathematical formula in FORTRAN, how easy to
 understand and derive proofs, right?) or in music (Gregorian neumes are
 basically linearly written and preceded the square notation which
 followed it).

 How do you expect to notate heptuplets against trioles? Least common
 multiple? Good luck reading your voice as set against that of other
 voices and figuring out the relation to the beat. Have you tried
 setting some polyrhythmic Chopin with your system and actually _playing_
 it?

 What is your actual musical background and proficiency?

 > But in any case, I am not a programmer, and have never participated in
 > the creation of free software.

 Are you a musician? What instrument do you play at what level of
 proficiency?

 > Before you dismiss my format, and now that you have a sense for how it
 > works, I implore you to at least try composing in a text editor, any
 > piece of music, simple for now, to feel how natural it is. Think about
 > what this could do - one could comfortably convey all the information
 > conveyed by sheet music, using only notepad.exe.

 Reality check: LilyPond source can be written using only notepad.exe and
 conveys all the information written down. So can abc. So can Mpp,
 MusixTeX, MuTeX and others.

 > There's nothing like it.

 That is not valuable in itself.

 -- 
 David Kastrup
 I am having trouble finding examples of MPP code to look at. Could you help me 
out? And what about my code is so cryptic? Can't anyone read a "dadadaaa"?

I want to look at algebra at a later date. I feel it's fallen victim to the 
same issues as premusic - over-reverence of centuries-old notation - but I 
don't yet have an easy solution. It's more than just linearity - it's about 
designing a file format with a keyboard from the ground up, and not writing the 
information down on paper as has been done for centuries and basing your file 
format off of that.

Yes, least common multiple for your obscure polyrhythms. It would work, and 
unless we start talking about pi-lets, it's the sensible way.

I play guitar and a few instruments very well by most people's standards, 
though I'm sure many of you would outshine me. I compose much music that is at 
least a little complicated, and out of frustration with all existing notation 
softwares prior to my format, I have never scored it. But who cares if I only 
play the tinwhistle? It doesn't make my file format into any less of the most 
sensible plaintext file format for premusic.

So Lilypond and MusixTex can be agonizingly written down by hand. They weren't 
optimized for that purpose, and are designed to render in an entirely different 
and intensive layout - mine can be comfortably and quickly composed in AND 
displayed and read in notepad.exe. Again, I implore you to at least try 
composing music in my format.
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Re: Changing spacing for a fall

2017-03-20 Thread Urs Liska



Am 20.03.2017 um 23:31 schrieb Ralph Palmer:
> Greetings - 
>
> I'm running LilyPond 2.19.50 under Windows 7 and Frescobaldi.
>
> I'd like to increase the spacing between two notes, to accommodate a
> fall. I've checked "spacing" issues in the Notation Reference and in
> the snippet repository, but can't find anything that will increase the
> distance between just two notes.

Insert

  \once \override NoteColumn.X-offset = 3

just before the note you want to push. This will basically ensure that
at least this amount is between the two notes.

HTH
Urs

>
> I will attach a scan of what I'm trying to do, as well as the PDF of
> the ly file.
>
> Here's my initial attempt vial LilyPond :
>
> %% start snippet %%%
>
> \version "2.19.50"
> \include "english.ly "
>
> fallTest =
> %\relative c' 
> {
>   \clef treble
>   \key d \major
>   \time 4/4  
>
>   e''4 e'' d''4-\bendAfter #-3 cs''8 e'' |
> }
>
> \score {
>   \fallTest
> }
>
> %%% end snippet %%%
>
> I appreciate your time and attention,
>
> Ralph
>
> -- 
> Ralph Palmer
> Brattleboro, VT
> USA
> palmer.r.vio...@gmail.com 
>
>
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> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

-- 
u...@openlilylib.org
https://openlilylib.org
http://lilypondblog.org

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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?



Am 20.03.2017 um 22:48 schrieb have@anti.capital:
> MusicXML […] but it is an unwise solution here.
As you mentioned several times, you’re not a programmer so probably
others know a little better about how to store music in a way that
programs can easily read.

> ABC […] lacks the perfect and intuitive vertical extensibility of Premusic.
PSP might be relatively easy to describe/define. But not intuitive
(think of D# for D sharp 3, which should be D§ on a german and Dℓ on a
neo keyboard layout).

> Extensibility speaks for itself. […] Every column of squares can be 
> elaborated on by putting more information above it.
So for double sharps/flats:

[]ac   +   -
[]pi  G#G#G3g3g3

Very clever.

> It looks to be compatible with even the most complicated music. It's very 
> easy to read and compose […]
No (see David’s tuplet example), no and no.

> I have invented the perfect plaintext file format for premusic.
“Perfect” is a strong word but I’m sure you perfectly know what you’re
talking about.

> Before you dismiss my format, […] I implore you to at least try composing in 
> a text editor.
I do it all the time: Frescobaldi is the editor of my choice.

So now that I’ve ranted about things that others have thought about more
than me I feel a bit sorry. I’ll try not to do so again.

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Re: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 7:04 PM,   wrote:
> []tm  108
> []dy  ff
>
> Fermatas I want to discuss with others before I make very specific plans. I
> don't see much reason for an entire newline of squares for fermatas, when
> "daa!" could be equivalent to "daaa" with a fermata. That's just one way to
> do it.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?
> From: "Malte Meyn" 
> Date: 3/20/17 5:14 pm
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
>
>
>
> Am 20.03.2017 um 22:48 schrieb have@anti.capital:
>> These are the first measures of Beethoven's Fifth in premusic.
>
> This is missing tempo, fermatas and dynamics.
>
> ___
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> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?
> From: "David Kastrup" 
> Date: 3/20/17 5:16 pm
> To: have@anti.capital
> Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
>
>  writes:
>
>> Why don't I ask you to name a notation that does something that
>> Parallel Squares could NOT do? Or, if I reversed the roles, and every
>> tune on http://abcnotation.com were in my notation, and I approached,
>> telling you about the ABC or GUIDO notation I invented, would you see
>> any merit in it, or any real reason to implement ABC or GUIDO... Ever?
>
> Sure. LilyPond was created by the same authors who wrote Mpp, a music
> preprocessor for MusiXTeX which is somewhat similarly compact and
> cryptic as your proposal.
>
> Semilinear notations haven't made the race in math (how great it would
> be if you'd express every mathematical formula in FORTRAN, how easy to
> understand and derive proofs, right?) or in music (Gregorian neumes are
> basically linearly written and preceded the square notation which
> followed it).
>
> How do you expect to notate heptuplets against trioles? Least common
> multiple? Good luck reading your voice as set against that of other
> voices and figuring out the relation to the beat. Have you tried
> setting some polyrhythmic Chopin with your system and actually _playing_
> it?
>
> What is your actual musical background and proficiency?
>
>> But in any case, I am not a programmer, and have never participated in
>> the creation of free software.
>
> Are you a musician? What instrument do you play at what level of
> proficiency?
>
>> Before you dismiss my format, and now that you have a sense for how it
>> works, I implore you to at least try composing in a text editor, any
>> piece of music, simple for now, to feel how natural it is. Think about
>> what this could do - one could comfortably convey all the information
>> conveyed by sheet music, using only notepad.exe.
>
> Reality check: LilyPond source can be written using only notepad.exe and
> conveys all the information written down. So can abc. So can Mpp,
> MusixTeX, MuTeX and others.
>
>> There's nothing like it.
>
> That is not valuable in itself.
>
> --
> David Kastrup
>
> I am having trouble finding examples of MPP code to look at. Could you help
> me out? And what about my code is so cryptic? Can't anyone read a
> "dadadaaa"?

No. Probably for the same reason *anyone* can't just read binary code.

You might be able to sell that to those violin playing robots in Japan though.

>
> I want to look at algebra at a later date. I feel it's fallen victim to the
> same issues as premusic - over-reverence of centuries-old notation - but I
> don't yet have an easy solution. It's more than just linearity - it's about
> designing a file format with a keyboard from the ground up, and not writing
> the information down on paper as has been done for centuries and basing your
> file format off of that.
>
> Yes, least common multiple for your obscure polyrhythms. It would work, and
> unless we start talking about pi-lets, it's the sensible way.
>
> I play guitar and a few instruments very well by most people's standards,
> though I'm sure many of you would outshine me. I compose much music that is
> at least a little complicated, and out of frustration with all existing
> notation softwares prior to my format, I have never scored it. But who cares
> if I only play the tinwhistle? It doesn't make my file format into any less
> of the most sensible plaintext file format for premusic.
>
> So Lilypond and MusixTex can be agonizingly written down by hand. They
> weren't optimized for that purpose, and are designed to render in an
> entirely different and intensive layout - mine can be comfortably and
> quickly composed in AND displayed and read in notepad.exe. Again, I implore
> you to at least try composing music in my format.
>
> ___
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>



-- 

Jeffery Shivers
 jefferyshivers.com
 soundcloud.com/jefferyshivers

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Square characters

To explain the concept of a square character, let's look at a separate project 
to mine: the International Phonetic Alphabet. It is used by dictionaries and 
the like to unambiguously describe how to pronounce any word in any language. 
It has a symbol for every sound your mouth can conceivably make.
But that's more sounds than there are letters in the alphabet. The response of 
the Association was to add more glyphs. I think that in an age of Unicode we 
have just as many glyphs as we need right now, thank you very much - and I 
despise alt codes and the dreaded Character Map.
 
A long time ago, the Romans had a problem of running out of numerals when their 
numbers got too big. The Arabs responded by creating the numeral system we use 
today that doesn't need more symbols than 0 through 9.
 
That's basically what I'm doing to the International Phonetic Alphabet - we 
want more sounds than there are letters in A through Z - so we don't add more 
letters, we simply square them, declaring individual characters to be 
irrelevant except as halves of pairs of characters, or 'squares'. Now I can 
represent every letter in the International Phonetic Alphabet with two strokes 
of the keyboard everyone has - because CC isn't CS isn't SC isn't SS. It's a 
side project of mine that also uses square characters, and may even prove 
useful in a parallel format - but I am only a lay phonetician, and that square 
alphabet is not finished enough to present.
 
It goes to show that there is at least one application of a (parallel) square 
alphabet besides premusic, which likely implies there's more. It's a very 
powerful format that merits an optimized text editor environment.
 
Viral Anticapital
http://anti.capital
 
 
- Original Message - Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that 
others can't?
From: "Jacques Menu Muzhic" 
Date: 3/20/17 6:42 pm
To: have@anti.capital
Cc: "Jacques Menu Muzhic" , "Lilypond User List" 
, "David Kastrup" 

Hello Have,  
I don't understand what you mean by square characters: can you make that more 
clear?
 
There are text editors you can use I guess for the parallel aspect of what 
seems to be a measure-wise notation IIUC, i.e. those that offer block-mode 
editing such as Win-EDT on Windows.
 
There's a tree structure in nearly all music, written or played: parts are 
performed in parallel, each of them made of voices. The latter usually get 
grouped into staves for reading and organisation commodity, and repeats, da 
capos and codas add more structure to that. An organ music score is an example 
of such a tree.
 
All text notations used to represent trees have a difficult problem. MusicXML 
is not meant to be used by composers or music aficionados, it is an exchange 
format designed for use by computer applications. The order of the various 
markups such as  and  is defined by a DTD.
 
In the example below, the  contains the sharp , but the  dynamic occurs before it. It could have been placed inside the  too, 
though. Such design choices were not made at random, there are reasons behind 
them.
 
  

  

  

  
  

  C
  1
  4

16
1
half
sharp
  
 
In this other example, there's a partgroup containing two parts, one for each 
flute, with respective parts « 1 » and « 2 » sharing a 
single staff as is often the case in orchestral scores. 
 


  Flutes
  Fl.
  
Fl.
  
  
2
74
  



  1
2
  yes


 
And the horns sections is a sub-partgroup in this score, with 4 voices grouped 
into two staves. MusicXML precisely is weird in this area BTW: it does not 
represent a staff group (tree of groups) as a tree, by allows for « 
intelaced groups », which is arguable:

 
 
How do you represent such complex structures with Premusic?
 
JM
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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

2017-03-20 Thread Werner LEMBERG


> As an example of what David is mentioning, have a look at the attached
> png image (taken from Chopin's prelude op. 28/24) and try to notate
> this.

Oops, wrong image.  Here's the right one.


Werner
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Re: [Auto-Reply] Re: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 7:45 PM, have@anti.capital  wrote:
> Viral Anticapital will get back to you shortly.
>
> If this is a throwaway email account, that's fine if unnecessary - please 
> remember to keep checking it, though!

Seriously?

-- 

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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

2017-03-20 Thread Jacques Menu Muzhic

Hello Have,

I don’t understand what you mean by square characters: can you make that more
clear?

There are text editors you can use I guess for the parallel aspect of what
seems to be a measure-wise notation IIUC, i.e. those that offer block-mode
editing such as Win-EDT on Windows.

There’s a tree structure in nearly all music, written or played: parts are
performed in parallel, each of them made of voices. The latter usually get
grouped into staves for reading and organisation commodity, and repeats, da
capos and codas add more structure to that. An organ music score is an example
of such a tree.

All text notations used to represent trees have a difficult problem. MusicXML
is not meant to be used by composers or music aficionados, it is an exchange
format designed for use by computer applications. The order of the various
markups such as and is defined by a DTD.

In the example below, the contains the sharp , but the dynamic occurs before it. It could have been placed inside the too,
though. Such design choices were not made at random, there are reasons behind
them.

C
1
4

16
1
half
sharp

In this other example, there’s a partgroup containing two parts, one for each
flute, with respective parts « 1 » and « 2 » sharing a single staff as is often
the case in orchestral scores.

Flutes
Fl.

Fl.

2
74

1
2
yes

And the horns sections is a sub-partgroup in this score, with 4 voices grouped
into two staves. MusicXML precisely is weird in this area BTW: it does not
represent a staff group (tree of groups) as a tree, by allows for « intelaced
groups », which is arguable:

How do you represent such complex structures with Premusic?

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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

2017-03-20 Thread Juan Cristóbal Cerrillo

Shouldn’t this discussion be happening elsewhere?
The relevance to Lilypond is what exactly?

best,

jc

> On Mar 20, 2017, at 5:42 PM, Jacques Menu Muzhic  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello Have,
> 
> I don’t understand what you mean by square characters: can you make that more 
> clear?
> 
> There are text editors you can use I guess for the parallel aspect of what 
> seems to be a measure-wise notation IIUC, i.e. those that offer block-mode 
> editing such as Win-EDT on Windows.
> 
> There’s a tree structure in nearly all music, written or played: parts are 
> performed in parallel, each of them made of voices. The latter usually get 
> grouped into staves for reading and organisation commodity, and repeats, da 
> capos and codas add more structure to that. An organ music score is an 
> example of such a tree.
> 
> All text notations used to represent trees have a difficult problem. MusicXML 
> is not meant to be used by composers or music aficionados, it is an exchange 
> format designed for use by computer applications. The order of the various 
> markups such as  and  is defined by a DTD.
> 
> In the example below, the  contains the sharp , but the 
>  dynamic occurs before it. It could have been placed inside the  
> too, though. Such design choices were not made at random, there are reasons 
> behind them.
> 
>   
> 
>   
> 
>   
> 
>   
>   
> 
>   C
>   1
>   4
> 
> 16
> 1
> half
> sharp
>   
> 
> In this other example, there’s a partgroup containing two parts, one for each 
> flute, with respective parts « 1 » and « 2 » sharing a single staff as is 
> often the case in orchestral scores. 
> 
> 
> 
>   Flutes
>   Fl.
>   
> Fl.
>   
>   
> 2
> 74
>   
> 
> 
> 
>   1
> 2
>   yes
> 
> 
> And the horns sections is a sub-partgroup in this score, with 4 voices 
> grouped into two staves. MusicXML precisely is weird in this area BTW: it 
> does not represent a staff group (tree of groups) as a tree, by allows for « 
> intelaced groups », which is arguable:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you represent such complex structures with Premusic?
> 
> JM
> 
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RE: Re: [Auto-Reply] Re: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

Woah, I forgot about that. Haha, disabled signatures. Sorry folks.
 
- Original Message - Subject: Re: [Auto-Reply] Re: Re: What can 
Premusic do that others can't?
From: "Jeffery Shivers" 
Date: 3/20/17 6:49 pm
To: "Lilypond-User Mailing List" 

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 7:45 PM, have@anti.capital  wrote:
 > Viral Anticapital will get back to you shortly.
 >
 > If this is a throwaway email account, that's fine if unnecessary - please 
 > remember to keep checking it, though!
 
 Seriously?
 
 -- 
 
 Jeffery Shivers
 jefferyshivers.com
 soundcloud.com/jefferyshivers
 
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Re: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

2017-03-20 Thread mskala

Please trim quotes in replies.

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017, Jeffery Shivers wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 7:04 PM,   wrote:
> > me out? And what about my code is so cryptic? Can't anyone read a
> > "dadadaaa"?
>
> No. Probably for the same reason *anyone* can't just read binary code.
>
> You might be able to sell that to those violin playing robots in Japan though.

I think they would prefer "ダダダーー".  ASCII isn't universal and there
are good reasons for Unicode, even the parts that are hard to type on "the
keyboard everybody has."

-- 
Matthew Skala
msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca People before principles.
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Fwd: Re: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

-- Forwarded message --
From:  
Date: Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:20 PM
Subject: RE: Re: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?
To: Jeffery Shivers 


I'm interested to know how you would pronounce the phrase "Can't
anyone read 'dadadaaa'?". Could you supply an audio recording?

I have a hypothesis that you and most anyone would pronounce it more
or less exactly as would accurately represent two quarter notes and a
half note. What's more, should that be the case, then it renders my
format's rhythm intelligible to a newly literate three-year-old with
less instruction than any part of sheet music, and it becomes
pointless to obfuscate the meaning by using any symbols other than
"dadadaaa".



- Original Message -
Subject: Re: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?
From: "Jeffery Shivers" 
Date: 3/20/17 6:44 pm
To: have@anti.capital, "Lilypond-User Mailing List" 

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 7:04 PM,  wrote:
> []tm 108
> []dy ff
>
> Fermatas I want to discuss with others before I make very specific plans. I
> don't see much reason for an entire newline of squares for fermatas, when
> "daa!" could be equivalent to "daaa" with a fermata. That's just one way to
> do it.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?
> From: "Malte Meyn" 
> Date: 3/20/17 5:14 pm
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
>
>
>
> Am 20.03.2017 um 22:48 schrieb have@anti.capital:
>> These are the first measures of Beethoven's Fifth in premusic.
>
> This is missing tempo, fermatas and dynamics.
>
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>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?
> From: "David Kastrup" 
> Date: 3/20/17 5:16 pm
> To: have@anti.capital
> Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
>
>  writes:
>
>> Why don't I ask you to name a notation that does something that
>> Parallel Squares could NOT do? Or, if I reversed the roles, and every
>> tune on http://abcnotation.com were in my notation, and I approached,
>> telling you about the ABC or GUIDO notation I invented, would you see
>> any merit in it, or any real reason to implement ABC or GUIDO... Ever?
>
> Sure. LilyPond was created by the same authors who wrote Mpp, a music
> preprocessor for MusiXTeX which is somewhat similarly compact and
> cryptic as your proposal.
>
> Semilinear notations haven't made the race in math (how great it would
> be if you'd express every mathematical formula in FORTRAN, how easy to
> understand and derive proofs, right?) or in music (Gregorian neumes are
> basically linearly written and preceded the square notation which
> followed it).
>
> How do you expect to notate heptuplets against trioles? Least common
> multiple? Good luck reading your voice as set against that of other
> voices and figuring out the relation to the beat. Have you tried
> setting some polyrhythmic Chopin with your system and actually _playing_
> it?
>
> What is your actual musical background and proficiency?
>
>> But in any case, I am not a programmer, and have never participated in
>> the creation of free software.
>
> Are you a musician? What instrument do you play at what level of
> proficiency?
>
>> Before you dismiss my format, and now that you have a sense for how it
>> works, I implore you to at least try composing in a text editor, any
>> piece of music, simple for now, to feel how natural it is. Think about
>> what this could do - one could comfortably convey all the information
>> conveyed by sheet music, using only notepad.exe.
>
> Reality check: LilyPond source can be written using only notepad.exe and
> conveys all the information written down. So can abc. So can Mpp,
> MusixTeX, MuTeX and others.
>
>> There's nothing like it.
>
> That is not valuable in itself.
>
> --
> David Kastrup
>
> I am having trouble finding examples of MPP code to look at. Could you help
> me out? And what about my code is so cryptic? Can't anyone read a
> "dadadaaa"?

No. Probably for the same reason *anyone* can't just read binary code.

You might be able to sell that to those violin playing robots in Japan though.

>
> I want to look at algebra at a later date. I feel it's fallen victim to the
> same issues as premusic - over-reverence of centuries-old notation - but I
> don't yet have an easy solution. It's more than just linearity - it's about
> designing a file format with a keyboard from the ground up, and not writing
> the information down on paper as has been done for centuries and basing your
> file format off of that.
>
> Yes, least common multiple for your obscure polyrhythms. It would work, and
> unless we start talking about pi-lets, it's the sensible way.
>
> I play guitar and a few instruments very well by most people's standards,
> though I'm sure many of you would outshine me. I compose much music that is
> at least a little complicated,

Re: How to simulate MuseScore's horizontal frame?

2017-03-20 Thread caagr98

Using some stuff from that thread, I've managed to get everything to 
look as I want, except the brackets themselves (as well as forbidding 
line breaks):


  \context Devnull = "coda"
\tweak self-alignment-X #RIGHT
\mark "D.S. al coda"
  \bar "||"

  \stopStaff
  \cadenzaOn
  \noBreak
  s1
  \noBreak % Ensuring there is no line break simplifies stuff.
  \startStaff
  \cadenzaOff

  \bar "||"
  \once \override Score.BreakAlignment.break-align-orders = 
#(make-vector 3 '(staff-bar clef key-signature))

  \once \override Score.BarNumber.break-visibility = #all-invisible
  \once \override Staff.KeySignature.break-visibility = #all-visible
  \once \override Staff.Clef.break-visibility = #all-visible

  \context Devnull = "coda"
\mark \markup { \musicglyph #"scripts.coda" }
  \context Devnull = "marks"
\tweak break-align-symbols #'(key-signature clef)
\mark \default


On 03/19/17 22:51, Jeffery Shivers wrote:

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 4:55 PM,   wrote:

Alright, here's a small example. The Devnulls are my workaround for multiple
marks at the same place. Other than those, there's nothing too remarkable.


Oh, this might be useful at least for the brackets:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2012-05/msg00379.html

From what I know, there isn't a way to engrave most SystemStart things
as if they were a new system in the middle of a line (at least not
naturally), but the other things should be similarly hackable.

I think there was another discussion on that sort of thing recently on
here (within the last month or so).

HTH




On 03/19/17 21:34, Jeffery Shivers wrote:


On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 4:14 PM,   wrote:


The best I've managed to do is to show the clef and keysig. However, I
haven't managed to fix the brackets, or reposition the coda or clefs. See
the attached images for details.



Could you add a minimum example of that LP code, too?

It might be hard to cut your score down to a tiny example that keeps
that exact placement, but if you can get it relatively close I (and
others) might have a better chance at finding the solution you need.

Best,
Jeffery



Is there some way to do this?

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Re: Changing spacing for a fall

2017-03-20 Thread Simon Albrecht


Am 20.03.2017 um 23:31 schrieb Ralph Palmer:

I'd like to increase the spacing between two notes, to accommodate a fall.


Maybe you can use
\override BendAfter.springs-and-rods = #ly:spanner::set-spacing-rods
d4-\tweak minimum-length 3 -\bendAfter #-3
?
Sorry, didn’t test it.

Best, Simon

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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

2017-03-20 Thread Simon Albrecht


Am 20.03.2017 um 22:48 schrieb have@anti.capital:

I have invented the perfect plaintext file format for premusic.


Sorry, but I find this preposterous as well as amusing…
You really need to be somewhat aware of the complexity of the problem, 
before you can start a salespitch for the solution.


Yours, Simon
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RE: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

 Very good, Jeffery, maybe the others can contribute to my study of methods of 
pronunciation of "dadadaaa".


Werner, thanks for asking. I scored the second image you sent me. At least, the 
parts of music exemplifying the complexity of Chopin. Slurs and everything else 
have to be discussed. http://pastebin.com/raw/APgfGgQz Here is the code, but 
you will have to paste it into a text editor to disable wrap to make it legible.

There's probably a few ways we could do the appogiatura, aside from that I 
used. We'll have to discuss it once a group is going.

Any other challenges? Anyone else care to score that piece in ABC or Guido or 
anything simpler than Lilypond or MusicXML? If not, I'll be taking the "perfect 
plaintext file format for premusic" award, Simon, thank you very much.


My intent does have overlap with that of Lilypond, but I'll gladly continue the 
discussion elsewhere if I'm unacceptably derailing - I'd just ask that you 
suggest an elsewhere for me to take it first. I've never started a project like 
this, and don't know where to go.
 
VAC

 
- Original Message - Subject: Re: What can Premusic do that 
others can't?
From: "Werner LEMBERG" 
Date: 3/20/17 6:40 pm
To: d...@gnu.org
Cc: have@anti.capital, lilypond-user@gnu.org


 > As an example of what David is mentioning, have a look at the attached
 > png image (taken from Chopin's prelude op. 28/24) and try to notate
 > this.
 
 Oops, wrong image. Here's the right one.
 
 
 Werner
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Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?

2017-03-20 Thread Werner LEMBERG


> Werner, thanks for asking. I scored the second image you sent me. At
> least, the parts of music exemplifying the complexity of
> Chopin. Slurs and everything else have to be
> discussed. http://pastebin.com/raw/APgfGgQz Here is the code, but
> you will have to paste it into a text editor to disable wrap to make
> it legible.

Mhmm, attached you can find your version where you have `one bar per
line', so to say – there's still a bar where the block length is 657
characters!  Without my block breaking, the line length exceeds 1000
characters.  Sorry, but this is – at least for me – completely
inacceptable.  A readable text file has a maximum line length of 80
characters, and it doesn't seem easy to break lines with your system
manually.  Needing a special editor or editor mode for writing and
processing a text file is almost as worse as having a binary format...

It seems that you always have to find a least common multiple for more
complex stuff.  I just want to mention that some composers use
irrational numbers for tuplets.  By the very definition, this can't be
exactly represented with your system.  It can't be exactly represented
in lilypond either, but having large fractions doesn't make the line
lengths explode.

> My intent does have overlap with that of Lilypond, but I'll gladly
> continue the discussion elsewhere if I'm unacceptably derailing -
> I'd just ask that you suggest an elsewhere for me to take it first.
> I've never started a project like this, and don't know where to go.

You might create a description of your syntax on, say, github, also
setting up a mailing list to which interested people can subscribe.


Werner
[]pi  G4--A4F4||
[]ap  G4--||
[]ap  F4--||
[]rh  daaadaaa--da||

[]pi  C2G2F3C2G3--C2G2F3C2G3--||
[]rh  dadadadadaaadadadadadaaa||

[]pi  C4--||
[]ap  ||
[]ap  ||
[]rh  daaa||

[]pi  C2b2F3C2G3--C2b2F3C2G3--||
[]rh  dadadadadaaadadadadadaaa||

[]pi  
C4--D4--C4--B3--C4--D4--E4--F4--G4--A4--b4--C5--D5--E5--F5--G5--A5--b5--C6--D6--E6--F6--G6--A6--b6--C7--D7--E7--||
[]ap  
||
[]ap  
||
[]rh  
daaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaadaaa||

[]pi  
C2b2E3C2G3-

RE: Re: What can Premusic do that others can't?