RE: Synchronize music of different length
Hi Urs.
In your example, if you lay the second version out as if the notes had twice
the durations they actually have, then it looks nice:
\version "16.0"
firstVersion =\relative e'' {e2. e4 | g2. cis,4 |}
secondVersion =\scaleDurations #'(2 . 1)\relative e'' {e4~ e16[ fis] e[ fis]
g4. cis,8 |}
\score{ << \new Staff \firstVersion\new Staff
\secondVersion >>}
(Note that I have corrected the beaming in the second version.)
That produces a nice result for your example. Is it what you want?
For other examples this method might be unsatisfactory. If you need to try a
different method, you might like to try spacer rests ( s4 etc).
> Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2013 16:51:55 +0200
> From: Urs Liska
> To: LilyPond Users
> Subject: Synchronize music of different length
> Message-ID: <51d58c0b.7010...@openlilylib.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed
>
> Hi all,
>
> what would be an elegant way to synchronize a passage of music that is
> of different length in two staves?
>
> I need to make an example where the composer made a second version that
> compressed two bars into one. At the same time he modified the melody
> around common anchor notes
> I would like to typeset these measures in two staves so that the
> corresponding notes are aligned, ignoring the metric situation.
>
> One would be:
> (\time 4/4)
>
> \relative e'' {
> e2. e4 | g2. cis,4 |
> }
>
> The other one:
>
> \relative e'' {
>e4~ e16[ fis] e[ fis g4. cis,8 |
> }
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RE: Synchronize music of different length
Hi Urs.
I tried to send a reply earlier. I don't know if I succeeded, but the method I
suggested was not good enough anyway. Here's my second attempt at a solution to
your problem:
\version "16.0"
firstVersion =\relative e'' {e2. e4 | g2. cis,4 |}
secondVersion =\scaleDurations #'(2 . 1)\relative e'' {e4~ e16[ fis] e[
fis]\bar ""g4. cis,8 |}
\score{ << \new Staff \firstVersion
\new Staff \secondVersion >> \layout
{ \context{ \Score
\remove "Timing_translator" \remove
"Default_bar_line_engraver" } \context
{ \Staff \consists "Timing_translator"
\consists "Default_bar_line_engraver" } }}
Note that I have fixed a bug with the beaming in the second version.
All the business of removing two engravers from the Score context & putting
them into the Staff context is needed because you have two music expressions
running alongside each other, and the one has a bar line where the other one
does not.
Now this is all very well because, musically speaking, all that was needed to
make the two music expressions correspond was to treat each note in the second
version as if it lasted twice as long as it actually does. If you had another
example where the music expressions correspond in a different way from that,
then you could try spacer rests ( s4 etc ).
> Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2013 16:51:55 +0200
> From: Urs Liska
> To: LilyPond Users
> Subject: Synchronize music of different length
> Message-ID: <51d58c0b.7010...@openlilylib.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed
>
> Hi all,
>
> what would be an elegant way to synchronize a passage of music that is
> of different length in two staves?
>
> I need to make an example where the composer made a second version that
> compressed two bars into one. At the same time he modified the melody
> around common anchor notes
> I would like to typeset these measures in two staves so that the
> corresponding notes are aligned, ignoring the metric situation.
>
> One would be:
> (\time 4/4)
>
> \relative e'' {
> e2. e4 | g2. cis,4 |
> }
>
> The other one:
>
> \relative e'' {
>e4~ e16[ fis] e[ fis g4. cis,8 |
> }
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Re: Synchronize music of different length
Hi Richard,
thanks for your suggestions.
I was just thinking about how to deal with the different timings (I
would have found that too, but later) when your second suggestion came in.
This works for the given situation.
But as you say I will have situations where it won't be sufficient
because they don't have that simple 2:1 relation but rather a irrational
one.
I often come across examples where one line is developed from another
one, either in the development of the music or in different versions of
a composition. When trying to visualize the relationship between them I
can either typeset the versions normally and place diagonal lines
between the systems, or adjust the spacing accordingly as in the current
example. This can of course be quite irregular, but I think it would do
a good job as an illustration.
Maybe I can experiment with \scaleDurations and use them differently for
both parts.
But then I'd probably have to deal with time signatures and barlines
some more.
But I'll consider this when needed ...
Thanks again
Urs
Am 05.07.2013 17:01, schrieb Richard Sabey:
\version "16.0"
firstVersion =
\relative e'' {
e2. e4 | g2. cis,4 |
}
secondVersion =
\scaleDurations #'(2 . 1)
\relative e'' {
e4~ e16[ fis] e[ fis]
\bar ""
g4. cis,8 |
}
\score
{
<<
\new Staff
\firstVersion
\new Staff
\secondVersion
>>
\layout
{
\context
{
\Score
\remove "Timing_translator"
\remove "Default_bar_line_engraver"
}
\context
{
\Staff
\consists "Timing_translator"
\consists "Default_bar_line_engraver"
}
}
}
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Re: Synchronize music of different length
Urs Liska writes: > Hi Richard, > > thanks for your suggestions. > I was just thinking about how to deal with the different timings (I > would have found that too, but later) when your second suggestion came > in. > > This works for the given situation. > But as you say I will have situations where it won't be sufficient > because they don't have that simple 2:1 relation but rather a > irrational one. That's not terribly likely with standard LilyPond input. Arbitrary complicated fractions are never irrational even though the _limit_ of a sequence of fractions may be. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Synchronize music of different length
Am 05.07.2013 17:20, schrieb David Kastrup:
Urs Liska writes:
Hi Richard,
thanks for your suggestions.
I was just thinking about how to deal with the different timings (I
would have found that too, but later) when your second suggestion came
in.
This works for the given situation.
But as you say I will have situations where it won't be sufficient
because they don't have that simple 2:1 relation but rather a
irrational one.
That's not terribly likely with standard LilyPond input. Arbitrary
complicated fractions are never irrational even though the _limit_ of a
sequence of fractions may be.
What I wanted to say is not that the relation itself it too complex for
LilyPond but that it may not be a linear relation.
In my current example.
Let's take an invented example:
\firstversion is what we had, \secondversion is
\relative e'' {
e4~ \tuplet 3/2 { e8 e fis } g4 cis,
}
but I still want the last e (2nd triplet) and the c sharp be aligned
with the corresponding notes of the first version then the timing
relations would change along the way.
Urs
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Re: Calculate BarLine 'kern to fit with a given stencil-x-extent
2013/7/4 Thomas Morley > > So I should ask: > How to get good results with different global-staff-size? > > Hi Harm, So here 's what I've found this evening : kern = x-length * EXP[ [ [LN(0.13)/LN(20)]*LN(StaffSize) ] - LN(0.13) ] Works pretty well from staff size = 15 to 30. Did not test others. Note : - LN (0.13) is an approx figure. - at least hair thickness changes will strongly affect this function. - I'm leaving tomorrow for vacation. I'm not sure to get the internet over there, so be patient for my next replies. Cheers, Pierre. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Calculate BarLine 'kern to fit with a given stencil-x-extent
2013/7/5 Pierre Perol-Schneider > > kern = x-length * EXP[ [ [LN(0.13)/LN(20)]*LN(StaffSize) ] - LN(0.13) ] > > Sorry, I forgot one factor.. So here again "the" kern function : kern = x-length*10* EXP[ [ [LN(0.13)/LN(20)]*LN(StaffSize) ] - LN(0.13) ] ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Synchronize music of different length
I don't know that Urs was contemplating "irrational" in the mathematical sense, but in the more logical sense of being something not governed by an easily understood relationship, such as one measure generating two and the next two generating one, and then maybe four develops to 10 and 9 to 5, or something like that. The thought that I had is that such an arbitrary function would be good in generated music (such as music generated by recursive functions) where LilyPond's text-based source files are ideal, and where successive systems could show the increasing complexity of each generation. So I might have something like (on an alto clef, for visual symmetry, and using a lisp structure to illustrate nesting) System 1: c' System 2: (c' d' b c') System 3: ((c' d' b c') (e' d') (a b) (d' c')) System 4: (((c' d' b c') (e' d') (a b) (d' c')) ((f' e') (c' d')) ((g a) (c' b)) ((e' d') (b c'))) For those curious, the generating rules are: (1) first note in a sequence generates itself, the next higher diatonic note, the next lower diatonic note, then itself again (2) if note n is higher than note n-1, then the generated notes are the next higher note followed by the note itself (3) if note n is lower than note n-1, then the generated notes are the next lower note followed by the note itself The result is, as can be seen, a function where generation n+1 always begins with the notes in generation n. How might we be able to code for a situation like this? Granted, if we're already generating the music, we might as well generate some kind of manual spacing, but would there be a way for LP/Scheme to align matching elements in these lists recursively, such as by determining the max natural/proportional spacing of the innermost equivalent musical expressions and then using that to determine the spacing required for outer groupings? On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 11:20 AM, David Kastrup wrote: > Urs Liska writes: > > This works for the given situation. > > But as you say I will have situations where it won't be sufficient > > because they don't have that simple 2:1 relation but rather a > > irrational one. > > That's not terribly likely with standard LilyPond input. Arbitrary > complicated fractions are never irrational even though the _limit_ of a > sequence of fractions may be. > > -- > David Kastrup > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Calculate BarLine 'kern to fit with a given stencil-x-extent
2013/7/5 Pierre Perol-Schneider > > > kern = x-length*10* EXP[ [ [LN(0.13)/LN(20)]*LN(StaffSize) ] - LN(0.13) ] > Sorry again, i'm righting too fast so last shot : kern = x-length*10* EXP[ [ [LN(0.13)/LN(20)]*LN(StaffSize) ] + LN(0.13) ] this one should be the good one... ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Calculate BarLine 'kern to fit with a given stencil-x-extent
Pierre Perol-Schneider writes: > 2013/7/5 Pierre Perol-Schneider > >> >> >> kern = x-length*10* EXP[ [ [LN(0.13)/LN(20)]*LN(StaffSize) ] - LN(0.13) ] >> > > Sorry again, i'm righting too fast > so last shot : > > kern = x-length*10* EXP[ [ [LN(0.13)/LN(20)]*LN(StaffSize) ] + LN(0.13) ] > > this one should be the good one... I have my doubts. The exponential evaluates to 0.13 * Staffsize ** (ln(0.13)/ln(20)) -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: More post-divisi oddities
Gentlemen, Thanks for your replies. Vaughan, Your attachment was filtered out as a binary file by my email server. The GNU.org archives also shows it as a .bin file so I cannot 'see' what you've done. If you would, please attach it as a reply to this email. David, I think I understand what you mean here: I have no idea what you mean with "are being picked up by the reduction" and "are directed at the full score". His "reduction" places _everything_ (with the exception of the side voices) into a single voice. Of course, this voice will share stem directions, slur directions, and every other property. He might want to look at \partcombine. Several questions and clarifications. The piano reduction code is what Frescobaldi creates when one uses its score wizard to create a score. I confess I do know understand exactly how it does what it does in getting stems/rests to not collide up to the point where the temporary polyphonic passage (TPP) is first used, but you can see from the example that the Frescobaldi code does set things rightly (this snippet is an extraction from a significantly larger work and the piano reduction for everything up to the TPP looks as one would expect it to look). By your comment, to see if I understand, you say that using \oneVoice following the TPP in each voice causes LP to set both parts on the piano reduction staff as one which it previously set as two before the TPP. That makes sense though it is unfortunate as \oneVoice following the TPP is required for proper steming/rest placement in the vocal staves and correct setting of lyrics. I had already taken a look at \partcombine following the examples here: http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/snippets/vocal-music#vocal-music-vocal-ensemble-template-with-automatic-piano-reduction and here: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/multiple-voices Unfortunately using the piano reduction from the first and the \partcombine expample from the second do the same thing as the piano reduction that Frescobaldi generates. I think this is so because the /oneVoice directives are still in the parts for the reasons I stated above. As using \partcombine seemed no better than the original I did not include them in my test ly file when I posted to the list. Guy Stalnaker jimmyg...@gmail.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Calculate BarLine 'kern to fit with a given stencil-x-extent
Copy of some tests enclosed. <>___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Calculate BarLine 'kern to fit with a given stencil-x-extent
2013/7/5 David Kastrup > I have my doubts. The exponential evaluates to > 0.13 * Staffsize ** (ln(0.13)/ln(20)) Sorry for that, i'm trying to copy formulas from my excel file and doing mistakes (plus my wife's complaining...) after few testings, it seems that 0.14 is a better aprox. figure so here we go : kern =x-length*1,4*EXP(-(LN(0,14)/LN(20)*LN(Staff-Size))) (this time I copy-paste it, so should be the goud one). Pierre ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Half-note with a flag
Hi,
I am trying to create a measure like the attached, from Chopin's Nocturne #3.
Here is what I have tried, but neither approach is quite right :
\version "2.16.0"
upper=
\relative c''
{ \clef treble
\time 6/8
\key b \major
r2.
r2.
}
lower=
\relative c'
{ \clef bass
\time 6/8
\key b \major
<< {cis,2 s8} \\ {
\once
\override NoteHead #'transparent = ##t
cis8[ e8 b' gis e' b]} >>
<< {cis,2 s8} \\ {
cis8[ e8 b' gis e' b]} >>
}
\score {
\new PianoStaff <<
\set PianoStaff.instrumentName = #"3."
\new Staff = "upper" \upper
\new Staff = "lower" \lower
>>
\layout { }
\midi { }
}
Any advice? <>___
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Re: Calculate BarLine 'kern to fit with a given stencil-x-extent
Hi Pierre, thanks again for your work. I'll work on it the upcoming weekend. 2013/7/5 Pierre Perol-Schneider : > 2013/7/5 David Kastrup >> >> I have my doubts. The exponential evaluates to >> 0.13 * Staffsize ** (ln(0.13)/ln(20)) > > > Sorry for that, i'm trying to copy formulas from my excel file and doing > mistakes (plus my wife's complaining...) Don't annoy your wife, a bad start of vacations. ;) > after few testings, it seems that 0.14 is a better aprox. figure so here we > go : > > kern =x-length*1,4*EXP(-(LN(0,14)/LN(20)*LN(Staff-Size))) > > (this time I copy-paste it, so should be the goud one). > > Pierre Bonnes vacances, Harm ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Half-note with a flag
Hi John,
\mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn is what you are looking for. The approach with
two voices was already right.
\version "2.16.0"
\new Staff \relative c' {
\clef bass
\time 6/8
\key b \major
\mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn
<< { cis,2 s4 } \\ { cis8[ e8 b' gis e' b] } >>
}
For more details, please look at:
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/multiple-voices
Cheers,
Joram
Am 05.07.2013 22:51, schrieb John Kliewe:
>
> \version "2.16.0"
> upper=
> \relative c''
> { \clef treble
> \time 6/8
> \key b \major
> r2.
> r2.
> }
>
> lower=
> \relative c'
> { \clef bass
> \time 6/8
> \key b \major
> << {cis,2 s8} \\ {
> \once
> \override NoteHead #'transparent = ##t
> cis8[ e8 b' gis e' b]} >>
> << {cis,2 s8} \\ {
> cis8[ e8 b' gis e' b]} >>
> }
>
> \score {
> \new PianoStaff <<
> \set PianoStaff.instrumentName = #"3."
> \new Staff = "upper" \upper
> \new Staff = "lower" \lower
>>>
> \layout { }
> \midi { }
> }
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Re: Half-note with a flag
2013/7/5 John Kliewe : > Hi, > > I am trying to create a measure like the attached, from Chopin's Nocturne > #3. [...] > Any advice? Use: \mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn Further explanations in the NR. Cheers, Harm ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
