Re: World’s largest computer outage!

[David Crayford]

What company were working for then? Morons R us?

> On 20 Jul 2024, at 08:45, Dave Beagle 
> <0525eaef6620-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> In Tech Support we never had an issue with having admin rights to our PCs. 
> Newbies in security/audit had the bright idea to change that. It made us less 
> productive, and gained nothing in return. A coworker called it security 
> theater. 
> 
> 
> 
> Dave B.
> 
> إسرائيل قتلت 40 ألف فلسطيني بريء
> 
> 
> On Friday, July 19, 2024, 8:27 PM, Clement Clarke 
> <05cb6e944c87-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> Can we bring back OS/2?
> 
> Clem.
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Jul 20, 2024 at 9:39 AM Joe Monk <
>> 05971158733e-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> More to the point, the issue is not Windows, but the abuse of Windows.
>> Example: requiring administrator rights to do ordinary, everyday tasks.
>> 
>> This led to "script kiddies" which caused us to be defensive on PCs, e.g.
>> Anti-Malware.
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
>> On Fri, Jul 19, 2024 at 6:31 PM Steve Beaver <
>> 050e0c375a14-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>> 
>>> We never had these problems until Windows showed up
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> No one said I could type with one thumb
>>> 
 On Jul 19, 2024, at 18:22, Paul Edwards <
>>> 0676ab6435a5-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
 
 On Sat, 20 Jul 2024 06:46:40 +1000, Wayne Bickerdike <
>> wayn...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
 
> Some kind of false economy to make the PC the entire tool of choice
>> for
> certain routine tasks.
> 
> In the 1980s we had proprietary banking terminals, private/leased line
> point to point communications and passbooks.
 
 This is a topic of interest to me. I still program in C90 too.
 Still restrict myself to S/370 instructions too (quibbling aside).
 
 However - for what reason would a proprietary banking terminal
 be more reliable than a PC? Isn't it more the automatic update
 feature of the PC that is the issue? That won't protect against
 a date-related bug in some component though.
 
 So perhaps 2 different PC solutions (e.g. the Amiga) - if we're
 talking 1980s.
 
> No way our branch network would be unable to perform front counter
> transactions. We had store and forward whereby local transactions
>> would
>>> be
> kept until the network was back up and running.
> 
> In those days we had 3 ATMs, preferring to let other banks provide
>> that
> service and we would absorb the fees.
> 
> I drew out $620 in cash from an ATM yesterday, just a few hours before
>>> the
> crash. Too many people are embracing the cashless world. Time to wake
>> up
> and apply some common sense.
 
 Are you suggesting using physical cash because software and
 hardware engineers are unable to create a reliable alternative?
 
 The cost of handling physical cash is likely hidden in taxes or
 whatever. If it was properly costed, maybe IBM mainframes
 would be part of the solution, and Amigas too?
 
 Note that I created PDOS because I didn't want to be dependent on
 millions of lines of code that I didn't understand and/or didn't have
 access to. Simplicity. For simple tasks. My wife didn't have access to
 her bank account for about 6 months because she either wasn't
 receiving SMSes at all (from this one bank), or they would arrive too
>>> late.
 
 No-one was able to do anything other than say "try again later".
 
 6 digits could have been sent with a Commodore 64 and a 300 bps
 modem to any spot on earth within 0.2 seconds in the 1980s.
 
 That was in 2023, but even in 2024 SMSes still get lost - and other
 situations too - I think Discord lost a message of mine in 2024.
 I don't remember a zmodem file transfer ever losing a file of mine.
 
 BFN. Paul.
 
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Re: World’s largest computer outage!

[Joe Monk]

Plus, there's a side benefit to using cash. It retains its value.

"Real dollars — cash — have a set of qualities that are hard to replicate
in a digital currency. Cash is universally accessible, universally
accepted, relatively stable in value, and can be exchanged for goods and
services without transaction fees. And it lends itself to privacy,
anonymity, and free expression."

Joe

On Fri, Jul 19, 2024 at 11:27 PM Paul Edwards <
0676ab6435a5-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Jul 2024 13:04:00 +1000, Wayne Bickerdike 
> wrote:
>
> >*Are you suggesting using physical cash because software andhardware
> >engineers are unable to create a reliable alternative?*
> >
> >Absolutely yes. There are myriad reasons, in my case I have a pension paid
> >into a UK account. Domiciled in Australia it's the best way for me to
> >access these funds and have cash.
> >
> >In Australia there's a push to cashless, however, lots of businesses have
> >suffered through similar outages and are going back to cash. EFTPOS is a
> >cash cow for banks and network providers of ATMs.
>
> It may seem like a "cash cow", but you need to weigh up the cost
> of that electronic infrastructure vs the cost of the entire process
> of chopping down trees to making cash and humans counting
> the cash etc etc. Those costs are basically being hidden. Maybe
> they exceed the cost of the "cash cow" and if it is an economic
> question, then the government should pay those banks etc
> directly for taking pressure off the physical cash infrastructure
> and lost productivity.
>
> Basically I find it hard to believe that we (hardware and software
> engineers) can't construct something more cost-effective and
> even reliable than using dead trees. If we are tasked with doing
> such a thing. And if we are given budget to fix bugs instead of
> only being given a budget to add new features. And include the
> cost of physical cash being lost - perhaps in a house fire - or
> wallets being lost/stolen. And perhaps include the cost of the
> drug trade being facilitated (assuming that is a factor).
>
> >The PC would be fine
>
> Oh - let's start here. You envisage a solution. I'd like to hear it.
>
> > if it wasn't trying to do everything and had a myriad
> >of vulnerabilities in the registry and installation and update processes.
>
> So - what specifically needs to be done to eliminate this issue?
> Someone mentioned OS/2 as a possible solution. I will mention
> that PDOS and its supporting toolchain exists - not necessarily a
> solution. Definitely not as sophisticated as OS/2. But that's not
> necessarily a bad thing. It may or may not be a bad thing - it's
> an open question I have. We have a tangible problem. One instance
> of it, anyway. And I saw a couple of people here suggesting that the
> mainframe was the solution. It may or may not be - open question.
>
> BFN. Paul.
>
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Re: World’s largest computer outage!

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sat, 20 Jul 2024 06:12:29 -0500, Joe Monk wrote:
> 
> Cash is ..., universally accepted, 
>
It says so, right on the dollar bill.  *But* have you
never seen a sign, "Cash not accepted"?   I nave.

In reaction, Colorado passed a law, which should
have been superfluous, requiring acceptance of
cash.  Still, some businesses, notably entertainment
venues, skirt the law by providing "reverse ATMs"
on site.

Have you tried to buy gasoline after hours with cash?

-- 
gil

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [IBM-MAIN] Connect:Direct

[Rich Tabor]

it is now IBM Sterling Connect:Direct

Get Outlook for iOS

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Dean Kent <06a91de5360b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2024 6:47:14 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] [EXTERNAL] Re: [IBM-MAIN] Connect:Direct

My recollection:

NDM was owned by Sterling Commerce, which sold network products, while
Sterling Software sold storage management solutions.   In 1993 Sterling
'bought' (actually merged with) Systems Center and renamed the product
Direct:Connect.In 2000, CA aquired Sterling Software while Sterling
Commerce was bought by SBC Communications.   Where it went after that, I
didn't track (I was in the storage management group of CA until 2010).

On 7/18/2024 11:00 AM, Dave Beagle wrote:
> Sterling owned NDM. (Network Data Mover) It was one of the 15 or so products 
> I was responsible for from 2003-2017, it became Connect Direct in 93 & IBM 
> acquired it in 2010. I talked with a number of Sterling people over those 
> years. AFAIK, IBM still owns it but it might be supported by a third party. 
> When IBM bought it, our cost skyrocketed to 100k/year from 20k a year and we 
> decided to drop support and ran it unsupported for years. I wasn’t happy but 
> management always was cost driven.
>
>
>
> Dave B.
>
> إسرائيل قتلت 40 ألف فلسطيني بريء
>
>
> On Thursday, July 18, 2024, 12:30 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka 
> <0471ebeac275-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> To clarify: Nobody said it is no longer IBM-branded product.
> SDSF is part of z/OS, but it is developed by Rocket Software.
> Many other products are also "off-shored" out of IBM to HCL, 21CS,
> Rocket and maybe other companies. (*)
>
> Regarding Connect:Direct - I don't know it's status.
> IMHO it is somehow internal competitor to MQ MFT, so I don't know
> whether IBM is willing to enhance it or rather keep it moribound.
>
>
> (*) Side note: JES3 and z/VSE are notable exceptions - those product
> were somehow "sold" to the companies (Phoenix and 21CS) and now both are
> marketed and supported be those companies.
> However TWS, SDSF, PCOMM, Fault Analyzer, Omegamon - all of them are
> marketed and supported by IBM. Including APARs, PTFs, etc.
>

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Re: World’s largest computer outage!

[Clement Clarke]

I actually spoke to Bill Gates way back around 1988 when he was in
Melbourne Australia, and said that I didn't think that C was a safe
language, like PL/I, COBOL, even ASM because it is SO easy to overwrite
storage that shouldn't be. And that C Strings were extraordinarily slow
compared with any mainframe computer languages at the time. I developed
routines for my JCL replacement language at www.Oscar-Jol.com -See at
www.Oscar-jol.com

You can see Bill Gate's technical manager's response here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JruyoYgXMyFKZnE7UbUIwAELhDZkKW3Z/view

I developed and documented some C string routines that I developed to make
them MUCH faster and certainly safer.  See here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hd4Ld0iJ5r_wQ3jSRv-FTLi7QFl0pstq/view

We must develop a safer way to keep all this computer infrastructure going
if we are are going to make a better world: www.MakingABeautifulWorld.com

Life is to be enjoyed!

Clem


On Sat, Jul 20, 2024 at 11:14 PM Paul Gilmartin <
042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Jul 2024 06:12:29 -0500, Joe Monk wrote:
> >
> > Cash is ..., universally accepted,
> >
> It says so, right on the dollar bill.  *But* have you
> never seen a sign, "Cash not accepted"?   I nave.
>
> In reaction, Colorado passed a law, which should
> have been superfluous, requiring acceptance of
> cash.  Still, some businesses, notably entertainment
> venues, skirt the law by providing "reverse ATMs"
> on site.
>
> Have you tried to buy gasoline after hours with cash?
>
> --
> gil
>
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Re: World’s largest computer outage!

[Dave Beagle]

An Ohio health insurance company. Poorly managed.



Dave B.

إسرائيل قتلت 40 ألف فلسطيني بريء


On Saturday, July 20, 2024, 11:27 AM, Clement Clarke 
<05cb6e944c87-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I actually spoke to Bill Gates way back around 1988 when he was in
Melbourne Australia, and said that I didn't think that C was a safe
language, like PL/I, COBOL, even ASM because it is SO easy to overwrite
storage that shouldn't be. And that C Strings were extraordinarily slow
compared with any mainframe computer languages at the time. I developed
routines for my JCL replacement language at www.Oscar-Jol.com -See at
www.Oscar-jol.com

You can see Bill Gate's technical manager's response here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JruyoYgXMyFKZnE7UbUIwAELhDZkKW3Z/view

I developed and documented some C string routines that I developed to make
them MUCH faster and certainly safer.  See here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hd4Ld0iJ5r_wQ3jSRv-FTLi7QFl0pstq/view

We must develop a safer way to keep all this computer infrastructure going
if we are are going to make a better world: www.MakingABeautifulWorld.com

Life is to be enjoyed!

Clem


On Sat, Jul 20, 2024 at 11:14 PM Paul Gilmartin <
042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Jul 2024 06:12:29 -0500, Joe Monk wrote:
> >
> >     Cash is ..., universally accepted,
> >
> It says so, right on the dollar bill.  *But* have you
> never seen a sign, "Cash not accepted"?  I nave.
>
> In reaction, Colorado passed a law, which should
> have been superfluous, requiring acceptance of
> cash.  Still, some businesses, notably entertainment
> venues, skirt the law by providing "reverse ATMs"
> on site.
>
> Have you tried to buy gasoline after hours with cash?
>
> --
> gil
>
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Re: World’s largest computer outage!

[Jeremy Nicoll]

On Sat, 20 Jul 2024, at 12:12, Joe Monk wrote:
> Plus, there's a side benefit to using cash. It retains its value.
>
> "Real dollars — cash — have a set of qualities that are hard to replicate
> in a digital currency. Cash is universally accessible, universally
> accepted ...

Scottish banknotes have - for at least 50 years - not always been 
accepted in England.

Fairly recently, paper banknotes in the UK were phased out and replaced
by plastic ones.  They last longer (& will survive a trip through a washing
machine) & probably contain even more security features than paper
ones, but ... they feel "wrong", don't fold like paper ones did, can't be
written on like paper ones could ... and I don't like them.

I /think/ that physical branches of banks will still take paper notes ... if 
you can find a physical branch - many have been closed in the last
few years.  It's possible too that only branches of the bank who issued
certain paper notes will take them.  (Eg there's 3 note-issuing banks in
Scotland, I think.)

-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

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Re: World’s largest computer outage!

[Sebastian Welton]

Crowdstrike not only had a, barely reported, major upset with various Linux 
distros not long ago but it also runs on mainframes:

https://www.crowdstrike.com/blog/crowdstrike-brings-xdr-to-z16-linuxone4-single-frame-and-rack-mount-models/

>
>the issue is windows, but caused by crowdstrike.
>Unlike Linux, Microsoft Windows never implemented switchable boot images. 
>Microsoft loads all drivers as separate files. Linux has a one file/image 
>kernel that includes all the 

Sebastian.

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