Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?

[Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user]

On 11/23/2024 7:58 AM, Boniforti Flavio wrote:

Hi Richard.
It's one payment I got from the buyer, which includes both the value of the
goods and the shipping costs.
F.


It would have helped me give you advice had you said that earlier. 
Except you DID say that you had deposited the (entire) payment. So you 
left out of the description how you paid for the shipping.


Michael D Novack


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Re: [GNC] Tutorial and Concepts

[Phyllis Bruce]

Thanks, Mr. Losey for getting this particular ball rolling.  I don't have
an accounting degree but I was a budget analyst for many years using
various computer programs.  It is not necessary for many users to
understand double entry accounting in order to use Gnucash.

Whenever you spend money, you identify the source of the money (your bank
accounts or credit cards or cash from your wallet.)  Those are your assets.
You also identify what you spend it on and those are your expense accounts.
You can usually identify one type of expense for each time you spend your
money and that is called a transaction.  The money out will equal the item
cost.

Sometimes you want to be more detailed about your cost and that is where
splits come into play.  Maybe you went to a gas station and purchased both
gas and some groceries.  You have one expense from your assets (the total
spent), and two "incomes" to your expense accounts - an increase in money
spent on gas in one split, and an increase in food cost in the other.  The
two splits will equal the money spent.

That is the very basics of double-entry accounting and ignores equity if
you don't care about it.  My gnucash file has only the starting balances of
my bank accounts and cash, and the starting balances of my liability
accounts - credit cards or loans.  These are the balances that existed the
day I started using Gnucash.  They include any unreconciled expenses in my
checking accounts and in my liability accounts.  All of these transactions
were entered with their original dates so that I could balance the accounts
when I received statements.

I hope this helps using Gnucash less daunting.  Start with a practice file
and see how that works.  Then you can create your good file to go forward.
Any time I was trying something different in Gnucash, I would first play
with it in my practice file.

Pobruce

On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 8:16 AM R Losey  wrote:

> I changed the subject because I want to start a discussion regarding the
> below comment, which regularly appears in this group (I am not throwing
> rocks at Stan).
>
> Sometimes, it is not a matter of understanding double-entry accounting or
> bookkeeping, but much more "how is this commonly done?". This group, at
> times, seems to throw out the "go learn double-entry bookkeeping" or "read
> the manual" just a shade too often, when some people may just want to know
> "How is -X- usually done?" (Look, I know it is tricky due to different tax
> requirements, how detail-oriented the person wants to be, and the
> flexibility of GnuCash to accomplish something in multiple ways, to name a
> few).
>
> As an example, consider Equity. From a brief look through the Tutorial and
> Concepts Guide, it doesn't seem to be mentioned a lot (I didn't see a
> search, but I looked at likely areas).
>
> Perhaps it is a general accounting concept to close out the books by
> zeroing income and expenses into equity, but I didn't know that until it
> was mentioned here. I am very grateful to this list for learning about ways
> to make this happen. I could have just been told to "go learn more about
> accounting", but a few ideas about how to record such events was incredibly
> helpful.
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 2:40 PM Stan Brown (using GC 4.14) <
> stan...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> > What Flavio _does_ really really need, in my opinion, is to read Chapter
> > 2 of the Tutorial and Concepts Guide, and read it again until he's
> > mastered it. He would save himself a lot of confusion if he would get
> > absolutely clear in his head about debits versus credits, and the effect
> > of a debit or credit on each type of account. Instead, it seems
> > to me that he's just throwing splits together and then asking on this
> > list about one transaction after another. Asking about every tree is not
> > an efficient way to learn about the forest.
> >
> > GnuCash isn't hard to use, as software goes, but it's not very forgiving
> > to folks who just dive in without understanding double-entry bookkeeping.
> >
> --
> _
> Richard Losey
> rlo...@gmail.com
> Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] Tutorial and Concepts

[Patrick James via gnucash-user]

Generally using "credit cards" involves a liability account, not an asset 
account.


> On 11/23/2024 9:38 AM PST Phyllis Bruce  wrote:
> 
> Whenever you spend money, you identify the source of the money (your bank
> accounts or credit cards or cash from your wallet.)  Those are your assets.
> You also identify what you spend it on and those are your expense accounts.
> You can usually identify one type of expense for each time you spend your
> money and that is called a transaction.  The money out will equal the item
> cost.
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Re: [GNC] Tutorial and Concepts

[Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)]

On 2024-11-23 10:08, David Warren wrote:
> I understand this answer, and agree that double-entry accounting does
> not need to be 'daunting', but I don't really agree that the typical
> 'basic' personal finance user is mostly going to make simple entries
> that credit a bank account and debit an expense account simply to record
> purchases.  Here are just a few examples of 'basic' personal finance
> transactions for most users and require more thinking about how to
> record debits and credits correctly:
> 
>  1. Receiving a paycheck (typically will require crediting an income
> account, and debiting various tax expenses, and possibly debiting
> 401(k) or similar asset accounts, along with one's bank account)
>  2. Transferring money between bank accounts
>  3. Making a mortgage payment (which probably requires crediting a bank
> account and debiting each of an interest expense account and a
> mortgage liability account)
>  4. Recording interest or dividend income on investment asset accounts
>  5. Selling an asset for a profit, which has been the source of dozens
> and dozens of recent emails as people argue about how to record this
> correctly in DE accounting. ...

To which I would add

   6. Paying for a purchase with a credit card or by taking out a loan.
  Usually the initial purchase involves debiting an expense or asset
  account and crediting a liability account. Then when making a
  payment on the credit card or loan, which is the general case of
  number 3 above, there's debiting that liability and possibly the
  interest expense account, and crediting the checking account (an
  asset).

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
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Re: [GNC] Tutorial and Concepts

[David Warren]

I understand this answer, and agree that double-entry accounting does not
need to be 'daunting', but I don't really agree that the typical 'basic'
personal finance user is mostly going to make simple entries that credit a
bank account and debit an expense account simply to record purchases.  Here
are just a few examples of 'basic' personal finance transactions for most
users and require more thinking about how to record debits and credits
correctly:

   1. Receiving a paycheck (typically will require crediting an income
   account, and debiting various tax expenses, and possibly debiting 401(k) or
   similar asset accounts, along with one's bank account)
   2. Transferring money between bank accounts
   3. Making a mortgage payment (which probably requires crediting a bank
   account and debiting each of an interest expense account and a mortgage
   liability account)
   4. Recording interest or dividend income on investment asset accounts
   5. Selling an asset for a profit, which has been the source of dozens
   and dozens of recent emails as people argue about how to record this
   correctly in DE accounting.  Note that it's often the 'side issues' that
   appear to introduce the complexity.  This was the shipping cost in the most
   recent 20-email thread, but has also been foreign exchange issues or other
   ancillary items.  And some of us have noticed that it's often a lack of
   basic understanding of debits & credits that trips people up on these 'side
   issues'.

From there, things can start to get more nuanced (how do you want to record
credit card balances, do you submit expense reimbursements to your company,
do you lend small amounts to family members/friends and want to record, at
what level of specificity do you want to track your investments, do you use
health savings accounts or the like, do you want to track and depreciate
other assets like personal vehicles, do you lease your car, etc etc etc.)

So, to me it's a both/and:

   1. Familiarize yourself with DE accounting principles before moving over
   from Quicken or other personal finance tools that don't introduce/use DE
   accounting principles;
   2. Ask here for tricky use cases



On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 12:40 PM Phyllis Bruce  wrote:

> Thanks, Mr. Losey for getting this particular ball rolling.  I don't have
> an accounting degree but I was a budget analyst for many years using
> various computer programs.  It is not necessary for many users to
> understand double entry accounting in order to use Gnucash.
>
> Whenever you spend money, you identify the source of the money (your bank
> accounts or credit cards or cash from your wallet.)  Those are your assets.
> You also identify what you spend it on and those are your expense accounts.
> You can usually identify one type of expense for each time you spend your
> money and that is called a transaction.  The money out will equal the item
> cost.
>
> Sometimes you want to be more detailed about your cost and that is where
> splits come into play.  Maybe you went to a gas station and purchased both
> gas and some groceries.  You have one expense from your assets (the total
> spent), and two "incomes" to your expense accounts - an increase in money
> spent on gas in one split, and an increase in food cost in the other.  The
> two splits will equal the money spent.
>
> That is the very basics of double-entry accounting and ignores equity if
> you don't care about it.  My gnucash file has only the starting balances of
> my bank accounts and cash, and the starting balances of my liability
> accounts - credit cards or loans.  These are the balances that existed the
> day I started using Gnucash.  They include any unreconciled expenses in my
> checking accounts and in my liability accounts.  All of these transactions
> were entered with their original dates so that I could balance the accounts
> when I received statements.
>
> I hope this helps using Gnucash less daunting.  Start with a practice file
> and see how that works.  Then you can create your good file to go forward.
> Any time I was trying something different in Gnucash, I would first play
> with it in my practice file.
>
> Pobruce
>
> On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 8:16 AM R Losey  wrote:
>
> > I changed the subject because I want to start a discussion regarding the
> > below comment, which regularly appears in this group (I am not throwing
> > rocks at Stan).
> >
> > Sometimes, it is not a matter of understanding double-entry accounting or
> > bookkeeping, but much more "how is this commonly done?". This group, at
> > times, seems to throw out the "go learn double-entry bookkeeping" or
> "read
> > the manual" just a shade too often, when some people may just want to
> know
> > "How is -X- usually done?" (Look, I know it is tricky due to different
> tax
> > requirements, how detail-oriented the person wants to be, and the
> > flexibility of GnuCash to accomplish something in multiple ways, to name
> a
> > few).
> >
> > As an example, c

Re: [GNC] Tutorial and Concepts

[Liz]

On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 08:15:29 -0600
R Losey  wrote:

> Sometimes, it is not a matter of understanding double-entry
> accounting or bookkeeping, but much more "how is this commonly
> done?". This group, at times, seems to throw out the "go learn
> double-entry bookkeeping" or "read the manual" just a shade too
> often, when some people may just want to know "How is -X- usually
> done?" (Look, I know it is tricky due to different tax requirements,
> how detail-oriented the person wants to be, and the flexibility of
> GnuCash to accomplish something in multiple ways, to name a few).

With my educator hat on, people learn in different ways.
There are three basic ways, with some variations...

So I just consider that some people just learn by doing, get stuck,
confused or lost and appeal for assistance. Reading the manual may or
may not help these people.

Of course it is hard to learn anything complex without the simple
building blocks already in place. I understand the reasons why some
people are advised to learn some accounting. But the online reference
may not help, a person may need to watch someone on a video explaining
and showing worked examples.

I would be pleased to see references to alternate resources for
learning accounting.

Liz
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Re: [GNC] Tutorial and Concepts

[Liz]

On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 12:02:17 -0500
Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user 
wrote:

> I do not see how one can use a tool that automates a process with no 
> understanding of the process.

That's the way I do programming, find an example, change some
parameters and test the result. Analyse result and start back at the
beginning.
Understanding? No, I work every day with biological systems and
probabilities of any particular answer being correct and after decades
my thinking is a bit stuck that way. 

So I suggest we go to "how one can successfully use a tool..." because
"any fool can use a tool"

Liz
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Re: [GNC] Tutorial and Concepts

[Liz]

On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 13:08:54 -0500
David Warren  wrote:

> I understand this answer, and agree that double-entry accounting does
> not need to be 'daunting', but I don't really agree that the typical
> 'basic' personal finance user is mostly going to make simple entries
> that credit a bank account and debit an expense account simply to
> record purchases.  Here are just a few examples of 'basic' personal
> finance transactions for most users and require more thinking about
> how to record debits and credits correctly:

So we learn incrementally... I last paid for Quicken in 2000, and
believe I started with Gnucash about v1.6.

So in over 20 years I have been slowly learning, and it's quite OK to
learn each task as required. (playing educator again)

LIz
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[GNC] unsubscribing from the mailing list

[Mark Penner]

On Saturday, November 23, 2024 8:48:14 PM Central Standard Time Sebastian 
Naumann - MERCATORZ INTERNATIONAL GmbH & Co. KG via gnucash-user wrote:
> Can you please unsubscribe from this mailing list.

The link to unsubscribe is at the bottom of every email you get on the mailing 
list: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user Look toward the 
bottom of that page.


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Re: [GNC] Need assist to understand the gnucash double entry system

[David Cousens]

Scott,

Every transaction has at least two entries (sometimes referred to as
splits which generally appear on different lines) and each entry 
affects a different account. 

In accounting terms, one entry will be a debit entry to one account and
the second entry will be a credit to another account. Some transactions
affect more than two accounts and in this case the sum of the debit
entries must equal the sum of the credit entries. In the account
register display, the second column to the left of the Balance column
is the debit column and the first column to the left of the Balance
column is the credit column. There is a user preference to use the
formal accounting labels on the columns selectable using 
Edit->Preferences->Accounts->Labels.

When you import CSV data, particularly from your bank, GnuCash will
assume you are importing data to the account whose register is open
when you started the import process. The account for the second entry
to record the transaction is generally not specified in records you
import from your bank. It will generally be one of an Asset, Expense or
Income account although some transactions affect other accounts. You
have to specify that account in the ImPort Matcher Window as the
"Transfer Account". To specify the account, there is a downward
pointing arrow on the right of the transfer column which comes up when
you click on a line in that column and clicking on the arrow will bring
up a list of all the accounts you have setup from which to choose an
account for the second entry.

If you do not specify the account at this point it will be assigned to
the Imbalance account whose purpose is to flag to you that a transfer
account has not been specified so that you can edit the transaction and
change the Imbalance account to the required second account.

If you select Edit->Preferences->Register Defaults and check the Auto-
split register  radio button, the account registers will open in what
is known as Auto-Split mode. 

You can also set this for an open register using the View-> and
clicking on the Auto Split Register option  (Basic Ledger is the
default). When you click on a transaction line in an account register,
it will then open displaying the two (or more) entries of the selected
transaction on separate lines (these are usually in a brown color
rather than the green of the basic ledger line). You can use the TAB
keys to navigate through the fields of the transaction and edit them as
required. Hitting the ENTER key will record the changes to the
transaction and close it to single line mode.
  
Clicking on an entry line in the account column selects that entry and
the downward pointing arrow appears at the right of the column which if
you click on it brings up the drop down list of accounts. For any
imported transaction for which the accounting  this column is
Imbalance, you can then select the correct account to correct the
transaction.

GnuCash has a feature in the import process where it will automatically
select the Transfer account by matching the data in the imported
transaction to the data for transactions which have been assigned to a
particular account in previous transaction imports. This process is
"Trained " by the accounts you select during initial imports of data by
tthe process of selecting a given account during the import process.

Correcting it after import when it has been assigned to the Imbalance
account however does not train that process so it is preferable to
assign the transfer accounts during the import process. Once the
Bayesian matcher is trained it will automatically assign the transfer
account in the Import Matcher Window. These still need to be checked to
ensure the assigned accounts are correct before completing the import.
Not doing so will train the matcher to select the wrong accounts. It
sometimes gets it wrong but I only have to correct 5 or 6 out of ~100
transactions each month.

David Cousens


On Sat, 2024-11-23 at 19:01 -0700, Scott D. Turner wrote:
> I'm a new user and do understand the double entry accounting system
> in 
> general, but I'm having trouble understanding the exact procedures
> how 
> gnucash works.
> 
> My problem is when I import transactions from my checking acct, they 
> import just fine via CSV. I adjust the categories, but many times 
> gnucash imports into an imbalance acct. This is where I'm confused.
> How 
> to I adjust the individual line item entry (transactions) to be
> listed 
> under another account where they are supposed to be in.
> 
> I'm also not sure what I'm doing with the "transfer" column after all
> the transactions are imported. Does the transfer column transfer from
> or 
> to specific accounts? I can't quite figure this out.
> 
> I need to understand how gnucash treats funds moved from one account 
> transaction to another, thereby moving funds to another account, 
> enabling the eventual zero balance of accounts.
> 
> I have studied the documentation on line, downloaded PDF of the tech 

[GNC] Linked file paths when copied to a different computer

[Chris Skudder]

I'm treasurer of our church and keep the books on GnuCash.
It's a terrific solution, kudos and my heartfelt thanks to the dev's and 
the whole team.


I do my work remotely on my own computer (Xubuntu 22.04, GnuCash 5.9 
Flathub). (I also keep a couple other GnuCash books on my machine.)


I back all my church files up to a Windows computer at the church. It 
has the same version of GnuCash installed. I don't enter transactions on 
the church computer, it's used only as "read only" for auditing.


I'd like to fix or change the paths to linked files on the Windows 
machine so that they open correctly- this would obviously make auditing 
much easier, faster, etc.


I know about Edit > Prefs > General > Path Head for Linked Files 
Relative Paths - but it doesn't make sense to use it in Xubuntu because 
I keep other books with the same Gnucash application, for which the 
supporting documentation is in different folder locations.


But trying to use that on the Windows machine, I can't get the linked 
file paths working on that one. I seem to have some distant memory of a 
way to find and fix broken file links (or maybe that was a different 
application). All the linked files are in no more than 2 or 3 
directories, so a "global replace" of the Xubuntu file paths with the 
Windows paths would do it.


What else might I be missing?

Thanks in advance,
Chris
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Re: [GNC] Linked file paths when copied to a different computer

[Brook Milligan via gnucash-user]

> On Nov 23, 2024, at 5:43 PM, Chris Skudder  wrote:
> 
> I know about Edit > Prefs > General > Path Head for Linked Files
> Relative Paths - but it doesn't make sense to use it in Xubuntu because
> I keep other books with the same Gnucash application, for which the
> supporting documentation is in different folder locations.

This is one of the issues that seems could use more flexibility.  In this case 
(and I expect most cases) the root for linked files should be a property of the 
book, not GC itself, because the documents go with the book and different books 
almost certainly have disjoint sets of documents, i.e., different roots for 
linked files.  I hope someone with better knowledge of the GC code base than me 
can propose a patch to introduce a document link as a book-specific property.

In the meantime, you can always reset the document root whenever you switch 
books.

If you really need to fix up an existing book, you can edit the paths in the 
xml file, but be sure you know what you are doing.

Cheers,
Brook

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Re: [GNC] Need assist to understand the gnucash double entry system

[Liz]

On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 19:01:56 -0700
"Scott D. Turner"  wrote:

> I'm a new user and do understand the double entry accounting system
> in general, but I'm having trouble understanding the exact procedures
> how gnucash works.
> 
> My problem is when I import transactions from my checking acct, they 
> import just fine via CSV. I adjust the categories, but many times 
> gnucash imports into an imbalance acct. This is where I'm confused.
> How to I adjust the individual line item entry (transactions) to be
> listed under another account where they are supposed to be in.
> 
> I'm also not sure what I'm doing with the "transfer" column after all 
> the transactions are imported. Does the transfer column transfer from
> or to specific accounts? I can't quite figure this out.
> 
> I need to understand how gnucash treats funds moved from one account 
> transaction to another, thereby moving funds to another account, 
> enabling the eventual zero balance of accounts.
> 
> I have studied the documentation on line, downloaded PDF of the tech 
> manual, watched YouTube videos, but still this gnucash appl leaves me 
> baffled with how it treats transactions that need to be moved.
> 
> Sure could be some help with this.
> 
> Thanks.

Let's go back a couple of steps.
You have chosen to populate your accounts from a csv download from your
bank. 
As a new user it would be good to understand manual entry of
transactions, and then the automation.

However, in the import step you have rushed through "to get it done"
and now Gnucash has learned that everything is going into the Imbalance
account. I don't use the csv importer at all, so can't tell you where
to stop, take a deep breath, and assign transactions to a set of
accounts which you would find useful.

Perhaps you should consider this a trial and make a fresh set of books
and run the import processes again. It is a lot faster than trying to
fix from where you are.

I agree you need to understand "how Gnucash..." but not just about how
it moves transactions. If you move everything then you will have not
taught the Bayesian matching system how to match transactions to the
correct accounts in the future, and your moving transactions will
continue.

Liz
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Re: [GNC] Tutorial and Concepts

[Sebastian Naumann - MERCATORZ INTERNATIONAL GmbH & Co. KG via gnucash-user]

Hi everyone,

Can you please unsubscribe from this mailing list.

Thank you.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Sebastian Naumann
US Compliance Manager

MERCATORZ INTERNATIONAL GmbH & Co. KG
Biebricher Allee 29
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From: gnucash-user  on 
behalf of Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user 
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2024 9:43:36 PM
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
Subject: Re: [GNC] Tutorial and Concepts

I have not been saying need to know much about double entry bookkeeping
TO GET STARTED USING GNUCASH and the new user won't have to do much with
equity beyond opening entries if never "closing the books" << much
EXPLICITLY with equity -- accounts of type "income" and "expense" are
actually type equity temporarily kept separate
  (their net DOES show up under equity in the Balance Sheet report*) >>

BUT (and this is a big but) the questions we get on this list are not
about how to enter "I went to the convenience store and spent $X on gas"
or even "I went to the convenience store and spent $X which was $Y on
gas and $Z on food".

In other words, sooner or later will have a transaction to enter NOT so
simple, will ask how, and NOW "you have to be willing to learn the
basics of double entry bookkeeping".

Phyllis, there is nothing wrong for using gnucash for keeping just
PARTIAL books as you seem to be doing. There is even a name from the old
days for what you are doing, aka a "cash book".

Michael D Novack

* The item under equity  "retained earnings" or "retained losses" is
actually "retained net of all income and expense accounts" -- earnings
if credit and losses if debit



On 11/23/2024 12:38 PM, Phyllis Bruce wrote:
> Thanks, Mr. Losey for getting this particular ball rolling.  I don't have
> an accounting degree but I was a budget analyst for many years using
> various computer programs.  It is not necessary for many users to
> understand double entry accounting in order to use Gnucash.
>
> Whenever you spend money, you identify the source of the money (your bank
> accounts or credit cards or cash from your wallet.)  Those are your assets.
> You also identify what you spend it on and those are your expense accounts.
> You can usually identify one type of expense for each time you spend your
> money and that is called a transaction.  The money out will equal the item
> cost.
>
> Sometimes you want to be more detailed about your cost and that is where
> splits come into play.  Maybe you went to a gas station and purchased both
> gas and some groceries.  You have one expense from your assets (the total
> spent), and two "incomes" to your expense accounts - an increase in money
> spent on gas in one split, and an increase in food cost in the other.  The
> two splits will equal the money spent.
>
> That is the very basics of double-entry accounting and ignores equity if
> you don't care about it.  My gnucash file has only the starting balances of
> my bank accounts and cash, and the starting balances of my liability
> accounts - credit cards or loans.  These are the balances that existed the
> day I started using Gnucash.  They include any unreconciled expenses in my
> checking accounts and in my liability accounts.  All of these transactions
> were entered with their original dates so that I could balance the accounts
> when I received statements.
>
> I hope this helps using Gnucash less daunting.  Start with a practice file
> and see h

Re: [GNC] Tutorial and Concepts

[Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user]

I have not been saying need to know much about double entry bookkeeping 
TO GET STARTED USING GNUCASH and the new user won't have to do much with 
equity beyond opening entries if never "closing the books" << much 
EXPLICITLY with equity -- accounts of type "income" and "expense" are 
actually type equity temporarily kept separate

 (their net DOES show up under equity in the Balance Sheet report*) >>

BUT (and this is a big but) the questions we get on this list are not 
about how to enter "I went to the convenience store and spent $X on gas" 
or even "I went to the convenience store and spent $X which was $Y on 
gas and $Z on food".


In other words, sooner or later will have a transaction to enter NOT so 
simple, will ask how, and NOW "you have to be willing to learn the 
basics of double entry bookkeeping".


Phyllis, there is nothing wrong for using gnucash for keeping just 
PARTIAL books as you seem to be doing. There is even a name from the old 
days for what you are doing, aka a "cash book".


Michael D Novack

* The item under equity  "retained earnings" or "retained losses" is 
actually "retained net of all income and expense accounts" -- earnings 
if credit and losses if debit




On 11/23/2024 12:38 PM, Phyllis Bruce wrote:

Thanks, Mr. Losey for getting this particular ball rolling.  I don't have
an accounting degree but I was a budget analyst for many years using
various computer programs.  It is not necessary for many users to
understand double entry accounting in order to use Gnucash.

Whenever you spend money, you identify the source of the money (your bank
accounts or credit cards or cash from your wallet.)  Those are your assets.
You also identify what you spend it on and those are your expense accounts.
You can usually identify one type of expense for each time you spend your
money and that is called a transaction.  The money out will equal the item
cost.

Sometimes you want to be more detailed about your cost and that is where
splits come into play.  Maybe you went to a gas station and purchased both
gas and some groceries.  You have one expense from your assets (the total
spent), and two "incomes" to your expense accounts - an increase in money
spent on gas in one split, and an increase in food cost in the other.  The
two splits will equal the money spent.

That is the very basics of double-entry accounting and ignores equity if
you don't care about it.  My gnucash file has only the starting balances of
my bank accounts and cash, and the starting balances of my liability
accounts - credit cards or loans.  These are the balances that existed the
day I started using Gnucash.  They include any unreconciled expenses in my
checking accounts and in my liability accounts.  All of these transactions
were entered with their original dates so that I could balance the accounts
when I received statements.

I hope this helps using Gnucash less daunting.  Start with a practice file
and see how that works.  Then you can create your good file to go forward.
Any time I was trying something different in Gnucash, I would first play
with it in my practice file.

Pobruce




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[GNC] Need assist to understand the gnucash double entry system

[Scott D. Turner]

I'm a new user and do understand the double entry accounting system in 
general, but I'm having trouble understanding the exact procedures how 
gnucash works.


My problem is when I import transactions from my checking acct, they 
import just fine via CSV. I adjust the categories, but many times 
gnucash imports into an imbalance acct. This is where I'm confused. How 
to I adjust the individual line item entry (transactions) to be listed 
under another account where they are supposed to be in.


I'm also not sure what I'm doing with the "transfer" column after all 
the transactions are imported. Does the transfer column transfer from or 
to specific accounts? I can't quite figure this out.


I need to understand how gnucash treats funds moved from one account 
transaction to another, thereby moving funds to another account, 
enabling the eventual zero balance of accounts.


I have studied the documentation on line, downloaded PDF of the tech 
manual, watched YouTube videos, but still this gnucash appl leaves me 
baffled with how it treats transactions that need to be moved.


Sure could be some help with this.

Thanks.

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Re: [GNC] Need assist to understand the gnucash double entry system

[Brook Milligan via gnucash-user]

> On Nov 23, 2024, at 7:01 PM, Scott D. Turner  wrote:
> 
> I have studied the documentation on line, downloaded PDF of the tech
> manual, watched YouTube videos, but still this gnucash appl leaves me
> baffled with how it treats transactions that need to be moved.

If I understand correctly, the simple answer is that you just change the 
account from “imbalance” to another one and save the transaction.  In the 
register, you can click on the account, e.g., “imbalance”, and there will be a 
drop-down menu from which you can select what you want among all the accounts.  
If you have to move the position of an entire account within the account 
hierarchy, you can edit the account from the “accounts” tab and set a new 
parent; all the transactions will move.

In case you are not already doing this, you might consider displaying the 
register as a “transaction journal” so that you have multiple splits visible 
all the time.  I find that helpful, because all the information is visible at 
once.  I also find the formal names, i.e., debit and credit, much more 
straightforward than the informal ones.  Get used to that terminology from the 
start and it will be easy.

Cheers,
Brook

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Re: [GNC] My Bad! My balance column disappeared . . .

[rob.britton]

Thanks to the great David H., my problem is now fixed.

Greatly appreciate the help!






-Original Message-
From: gnucash-user  
On Behalf Of rob.brit...@airlearn.net
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2024 9:26 AM
To: 'Gnucash Users' 
Subject: Re: [GNC] My Bad! My balance column disappeared . . .

Many thanks to all of you who replied.  I've got the problem almost fixed!





-Original Message-
From: gnucash-user  
On Behalf Of sunfish62--- via gnucash-user
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2024 3:01 AM
To: Patrick James 
Cc: Gnucash Users 
Subject: Re: [GNC] My Bad! My balance column disappeared . . .

It bears repeating: the folder on Windows in which the gcm files live 
(c:\Users\{USERNAME}\AppData\Roaming\GnuCash) is hidden by default. 

File Explorer won't show it, and won't return it as a search result. 

The About dialog since at least 4.13 (the version I'm running) includes links 
directly to this location, however, and you can type %APPDATA% in the File 
Explorer address bar to go there directly. 

⁣David T. ​

On Nov 23, 2024, 3:37 AM, at 3:37 AM, Patrick James via gnucash-user 
 wrote:
>If you are using Windows, you could search for the "gnucash.gcm"
>filename from c:\
>
>For any OS, including Windows, see:
>
>https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Configuration_Locations
>
>
>
>> On 11/22/2024 2:57 PM PST rob.brit...@airlearn.net wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> I found the following online, but can't find the highlighted file on
>my PC:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Quit GnuCash and open GNC_DATA_DIR/books/your-book-name.gnucash.gcm
>in a
>> text editor. It contains blocks describing each register you've ever
>had
>> open with a heading that looks something like
>> 
>> [Register 8305149bc462f9b5d118c259df706e7b]
>> 
>> Don't worry about the number, just look through all of them for an
>entry
>> like (balance is an example, if you shrunk a different column look
>for its
>> name)
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I'd be grateful if someone gave me the file location for GNC_DATA_DIR
>. . .
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Rob
>> 
>> Alexandria, Virginia
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Re: [GNC] My Bad! My balance column disappeared . . .

[Mark Penner]

On Saturday, November 23, 2024 1:42:12 PM Central Standard Time 
rob.brit...@airlearn.net wrote:
> I understand that the width of the description column is fixed, which
> suggests that there’s a maximum number of characters for ALL the other
> columns.

https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v5/C/gnucash-guide/chapter_txns.html#txns-columnwidths1
 tells how to adjust the column widths. The description column is 
not fixed, it auto expands to fill the space left by the other columns. (You 
can 
make it bigger but not smaller than the auto expanded size.) A scrollbar will 
appear if the combined width of the columns is wider than the window.


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Re: [GNC] My Bad! My balance column disappeared . . .

[David H]

Glad you got it sorted, happy GnuCashing going forward.

On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 at 08:01,  wrote:

> Thanks to the great David H., my problem is now fixed.
>
> Greatly appreciate the help!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: gnucash-user  airlearn@gnucash.org> On Behalf Of rob.brit...@airlearn.net
> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2024 9:26 AM
> To: 'Gnucash Users' 
> Subject: Re: [GNC] My Bad! My balance column disappeared . . .
>
> Many thanks to all of you who replied.  I've got the problem almost fixed!
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: gnucash-user  airlearn@gnucash.org> On Behalf Of sunfish62--- via gnucash-user
> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2024 3:01 AM
> To: Patrick James 
> Cc: Gnucash Users 
> Subject: Re: [GNC] My Bad! My balance column disappeared . . .
>
> It bears repeating: the folder on Windows in which the gcm files live
> (c:\Users\{USERNAME}\AppData\Roaming\GnuCash) is hidden by default.
>
> File Explorer won't show it, and won't return it as a search result.
>
> The About dialog since at least 4.13 (the version I'm running) includes
> links directly to this location, however, and you can type %APPDATA% in the
> File Explorer address bar to go there directly.
>
> ⁣David T. ​
>
> On Nov 23, 2024, 3:37 AM, at 3:37 AM, Patrick James via gnucash-user <
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
> >If you are using Windows, you could search for the "gnucash.gcm"
> >filename from c:\
> >
> >For any OS, including Windows, see:
> >
> >https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Configuration_Locations
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 11/22/2024 2:57 PM PST rob.brit...@airlearn.net wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I found the following online, but can't find the highlighted file on
> >my PC:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Quit GnuCash and open GNC_DATA_DIR/books/your-book-name.gnucash.gcm
> >in a
> >> text editor. It contains blocks describing each register you've ever
> >had
> >> open with a heading that looks something like
> >>
> >> [Register 8305149bc462f9b5d118c259df706e7b]
> >>
> >> Don't worry about the number, just look through all of them for an
> >entry
> >> like (balance is an example, if you shrunk a different column look
> >for its
> >> name)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I'd be grateful if someone gave me the file location for GNC_DATA_DIR
> >. . .
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Rob
> >>
> >> Alexandria, Virginia
> >___
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> >-
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Re: [GNC] Tutorial and Concepts

[R Losey]

I highly concur with you, Liz, about learning incrementally. I learn one
part, and when I have it down, I branch out and learn something new. Of
course, it's very true that people learn in different ways.

I started out just using GnuCash to register my expenses... I kind of
ignored deferred income situations and I wasn't closing out income &
expense categories at the end of the year until I saw the sense and benefit
of doing it from this list. Even so, I was confused about some things, and
am grateful for the help I received here... but even then, I seem to recall
some answers about "you don't understand accounting" -- well, that may be
true, but what I really didn't understand was how such transactions should
be entered. If I had been using accounting regularly, I probably would have
known, but having people in the list take pity on me and help me is
wonderful.

So, this is also a big "thank you" to every who contributes to the list -
not only the answers, but the questions as well.



On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 5:33 PM Liz  wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 13:08:54 -0500
> David Warren  wrote:
>
> > I understand this answer, and agree that double-entry accounting does
> > not need to be 'daunting', but I don't really agree that the typical
> > 'basic' personal finance user is mostly going to make simple entries
> > that credit a bank account and debit an expense account simply to
> > record purchases.  Here are just a few examples of 'basic' personal
> > finance transactions for most users and require more thinking about
> > how to record debits and credits correctly:
>
> So we learn incrementally... I last paid for Quicken in 2000, and
> believe I started with Gnucash about v1.6.
>
> So in over 20 years I have been slowly learning, and it's quite OK to
> learn each task as required. (playing educator again)
>
> LIz
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-- 
_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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[GNC] Dealing With Tax To Pay On Stocks

[Griffin]

Hello,

I am in Canada and I trade US stocks via TD Active Trader. The 
confirmations I receive identify, for the buy leg, the gross transaction 
amount and the commission. For the sell leg they identify those two as 
well as the tax to pay


My hierarchy is

USD - Assets
        USD - Trading Accounts
            TD Active Trader
                    USD - Margin Account
                            SPY

USD - Capital Gain
        USD - Trading Accounts
            TD Active Trader
                    Stocks
                            SPY

USD - Expenses
        USD - Trading Accounts
                TD Active Trader
                    Commissions and Fees
                                Commissions
                                Fees
                     Taxes To Pay

When using the wizard to record the transaction, I have the opportunity 
to specify the Commissions, so I just select the Commissions sub-account.


I don't see an option to record the Tax to Pay.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks

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Re: [GNC] Tutorial and Concepts

[R Losey]

Now this puzzles me... double entry bookkeeping is double bookkeeping,
whether a transaction has the simple case of "used my credit card to buy
gas" or a transaction with a dozen accounts (such as a paycheck, with
deductions for 401K, medical insurance, dental insurance, social security
taxes, medicare taxes, and so on). In each transaction, there must be a
balance.

Even back when I used Quicken, I had entries with multiple splits.

The more my understanding of accounting grows, the more I appreciate
GnuCash.


On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 8:44 PM Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> BUT (and this is a big but) the questions we get on this list are not
> about how to enter "I went to the convenience store and spent $X on gas"
> or even "I went to the convenience store and spent $X which was $Y on
> gas and $Z on food".
>
> In other words, sooner or later will have a transaction to enter NOT so
> simple, will ask how, and NOW "you have to be willing to learn the
> basics of double entry bookkeeping".
>
> Michael D Novack
>
> * The item under equity  "retained earnings" or "retained losses" is
> actually "retained net of all income and expense accounts" -- earnings
> if credit and losses if debit
>
>
>
> On 11/23/2024 12:38 PM, Phyllis Bruce wrote:
> > Thanks, Mr. Losey for getting this particular ball rolling.  I don't have
> > an accounting degree but I was a budget analyst for many years using
> > various computer programs.  It is not necessary for many users to
> > understand double entry accounting in order to use Gnucash.
> >
> > Whenever you spend money, you identify the source of the money (your bank
> > accounts or credit cards or cash from your wallet.)  Those are your
> assets.
> > You also identify what you spend it on and those are your expense
> accounts.
> > You can usually identify one type of expense for each time you spend your
> > money and that is called a transaction.  The money out will equal the
> item
> > cost.
> >
> > Sometimes you want to be more detailed about your cost and that is where
> > splits come into play.  Maybe you went to a gas station and purchased
> both
> > gas and some groceries.  You have one expense from your assets (the total
> > spent), and two "incomes" to your expense accounts - an increase in money
> > spent on gas in one split, and an increase in food cost in the other.
> The
> > two splits will equal the money spent.
> >
> > That is the very basics of double-entry accounting and ignores equity if
> > you don't care about it.  My gnucash file has only the starting balances
> of
> > my bank accounts and cash, and the starting balances of my liability
> > accounts - credit cards or loans.  These are the balances that existed
> the
> > day I started using Gnucash.  They include any unreconciled expenses in
> my
> > checking accounts and in my liability accounts.  All of these
> transactions
> > were entered with their original dates so that I could balance the
> accounts
> > when I received statements.
> >
> > I hope this helps using Gnucash less daunting.  Start with a practice
> file
> > and see how that works.  Then you can create your good file to go
> forward.
> > Any time I was trying something different in Gnucash, I would first play
> > with it in my practice file.
> >
> > Pobruce
>
>
>
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-- 
_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?

[Boniforti Flavio]

Hi Richard.
It's one payment I got from the buyer, which includes both the value of the
goods and the shipping costs.
F.

https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music
https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music
https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com


Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 18:10 Uhr schrieb R Losey :

> Hi. Your statement that "shipping is... paid by me, but the buyer is
> giving me the money for the shipping" is a contradiction. If the buyer is
> providing the funds, he is paying the shipping, not you. How you would
> record this depends partly on preference and partly how this is done... is
> the shipping included in the total sent to you? Is it a separate payment?
> If it is part of the same "transaction", I would use one entry, but if he
> gives you money at two different times or in two different ways, I would
> use two transactions.
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 2:15 AM Boniforti Flavio 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi David.
>> Shipping is factually paid by me with my money, but the buyer is giving me
>> the money for the shipping. So do I understand it right that I could
>> separate this sale and just enter two transactions in my checking account?
>> One would be the shipping costs, the other is the rest from 1214 EUR? I
>> then would have two different "sources of money" for both zeroing the
>> "Korg
>> MS-20M" account and for the "shipping costs of sales" account. Could this
>> work?
>>
>> F.
>>
>> https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music
>> https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music
>> https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com
>>
>>
>> Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 04:57 Uhr schrieb David Cousens <
>> davidcousen...@gmail.com>:
>>
>> > It all depends on whether the buyer or seller is paying the shipping
>> > costs.
>> >
>> > If the seller is paying the shipping costs then it is an expense to the
>> > seller but in this case the shipping costs are not explicitly included
>> > in the purchase price and would be paid.
>> >
>> > For a business this could be recorded as
>> >
>> >
>> > Asset:Mus. Inst.  Cr 800.00
>> > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00
>> > Asset:Bank AccountDr 1241.00
>> > Income:Sales Mus Inst Cr 1241.00
>> >
>> > when the funds are received
>> >
>> > Asset:Bank account   Cr 35.49
>> > Expense:Shipping Dr 35.49
>> >
>> > when shipping is paid (these could be combined if simultaneous but
>> > ideally better to keep the splits with memo annotations)
>> >
>> > and the nett profit on the sale is 1241-800-35.49 = 405.51
>> >
>> > If the buyer is paying the shipping costs, then the purchase price
>> > should have included the shipping over and above the sale price of the
>> > instrument itself and the seller cannot claim the shipping as an
>> > expense and part of the money received pays for the shipping.
>> >
>> > For this case it could be recorded as
>> >
>> > Asset BankDr 1178.51
>> > Asset:Mus. Inst.  Cr 800.00
>> > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00
>> > Income:Sales  Cr 1178.51
>> >
>> > Asset:BankDr 35.49
>> > Liability:ShippingCr 35.49
>> >
>> > when the funds are received
>> >
>> > and when the shipping is paid
>> >
>> > Asset:Bank   Cr 35.49
>> > Liability:Shipping   Dr 35.49
>> >
>> > and in this case the net profit is 1178.51-800 = 478.51
>> >
>> > Which of these it is appropriate should be clear from the sales
>> > invoice.
>> >
>> > David Cousens
>> >
>> > On Thu, 2024-11-21 at 20:52 -0600, R Losey wrote:
>> > > Expense accounts, because they are usually only increased, just have
>> > > Expenses for debits. The credit is called a "Rebate". I don't know if
>> > > you
>> > > meant to make that account an expense account.
>> > >
>> > > I don't see an Income anywhere in the list.
>> > >
>> > > Your asset should have gone down by 800 EUR, as you did. The gain in
>> > > this
>> > > sale is 414 EUR, of which the shipping should be an expense, and the
>> > > Income
>> > > will be 1214 minus the shipping cost, right?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Nov 21, 2024 at 3:53 PM Boniforti Flavio
>> > > 
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Hi all.
>> > > >
>> > > > I've just sold one of my instruments, for which I already have a
>> > > > dedicated
>> > > > account "Assets:Current Assets:Music Equipment EUR:Korg MS-20M".
>> > > > The opening balance for this item is 800 EUR.
>> > > > I now sold it and I got 1214 EUR for it. So I entered 1214 in the
>> > > > "Total
>> > > > Increase" column, with "Transfer" my EUR Checking account. Then I
>> > > > added
>> > > > splits:
>> > > > 800 "Total decrease" so that the item's value is 0 (as I sold it, I
>> > > > don't
>> > > > have anymore its value at home) - Transfer = "Korg MS-20M" account;
>> > > > 378,51 "Total decrease" (which is the surplus I made) - Transfer =
>> > > > "Income:Music Equipment Sold EUR"
>> > > > 35,49 "Total decrease", the price I paid for shipping this item to
>> > > > the
>> > > > seller - Transfer = "Expenses EUR:Post:Shipping cost of sales"
>> > > >
>> > > > Now when I look at the last account listed, I see 35,49 in the
>> > > > 

Re: [GNC] Tutorial and Concepts

[R Losey]

I changed the subject because I want to start a discussion regarding the
below comment, which regularly appears in this group (I am not throwing
rocks at Stan).

Sometimes, it is not a matter of understanding double-entry accounting or
bookkeeping, but much more "how is this commonly done?". This group, at
times, seems to throw out the "go learn double-entry bookkeeping" or "read
the manual" just a shade too often, when some people may just want to know
"How is -X- usually done?" (Look, I know it is tricky due to different tax
requirements, how detail-oriented the person wants to be, and the
flexibility of GnuCash to accomplish something in multiple ways, to name a
few).

As an example, consider Equity. From a brief look through the Tutorial and
Concepts Guide, it doesn't seem to be mentioned a lot (I didn't see a
search, but I looked at likely areas).

Perhaps it is a general accounting concept to close out the books by
zeroing income and expenses into equity, but I didn't know that until it
was mentioned here. I am very grateful to this list for learning about ways
to make this happen. I could have just been told to "go learn more about
accounting", but a few ideas about how to record such events was incredibly
helpful.


On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 2:40 PM Stan Brown (using GC 4.14) <
stan...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

> What Flavio _does_ really really need, in my opinion, is to read Chapter
> 2 of the Tutorial and Concepts Guide, and read it again until he's
> mastered it. He would save himself a lot of confusion if he would get
> absolutely clear in his head about debits versus credits, and the effect
> of a debit or credit on each type of account. Instead, it seems
> to me that he's just throwing splits together and then asking on this
> list about one transaction after another. Asking about every tree is not
> an efficient way to learn about the forest.
>
> GnuCash isn't hard to use, as software goes, but it's not very forgiving
> to folks who just dive in without understanding double-entry bookkeeping.
>
-- 
_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] My Bad! My balance column disappeared . . .

[rob.britton]

Many thanks to all of you who replied.  I've got the problem almost fixed!





-Original Message-
From: gnucash-user  
On Behalf Of sunfish62--- via gnucash-user
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2024 3:01 AM
To: Patrick James 
Cc: Gnucash Users 
Subject: Re: [GNC] My Bad! My balance column disappeared . . .

It bears repeating: the folder on Windows in which the gcm files live 
(c:\Users\{USERNAME}\AppData\Roaming\GnuCash) is hidden by default. 

File Explorer won't show it, and won't return it as a search result. 

The About dialog since at least 4.13 (the version I'm running) includes links 
directly to this location, however, and you can type %APPDATA% in the File 
Explorer address bar to go there directly. 

⁣David T. ​

On Nov 23, 2024, 3:37 AM, at 3:37 AM, Patrick James via gnucash-user 
 wrote:
>If you are using Windows, you could search for the "gnucash.gcm"
>filename from c:\
>
>For any OS, including Windows, see:
>
>https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Configuration_Locations
>
>
>
>> On 11/22/2024 2:57 PM PST rob.brit...@airlearn.net wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> I found the following online, but can't find the highlighted file on
>my PC:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Quit GnuCash and open GNC_DATA_DIR/books/your-book-name.gnucash.gcm
>in a
>> text editor. It contains blocks describing each register you've ever
>had
>> open with a heading that looks something like
>> 
>> [Register 8305149bc462f9b5d118c259df706e7b]
>> 
>> Don't worry about the number, just look through all of them for an
>entry
>> like (balance is an example, if you shrunk a different column look
>for its
>> name)
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I'd be grateful if someone gave me the file location for GNC_DATA_DIR
>. . .
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Rob
>> 
>> Alexandria, Virginia
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Re: [GNC] My Bad! My balance column disappeared . . .

[David H]

Ah I guess from re-reading some of this you've shrunk the Balance column in
one of the Registers and not the accounts tab :-)  As David T. said, if
you're running Windows you can just open File Explorer and type %APPDATA%
in the address bar which will open your AppDate \ Roaming folder and you
should see your GnuCash folder in it.  If you open that and then open the
books folder you should see your .gnucash.gcm file. I
guess you need to search for a 'balance_width=0'  or maybe
'balance_width=1' in it and set it to something like balance_width=77.

Cheers David H.



On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 at 15:20, David H  wrote:

> If you're looking for a balance column try the drop down arrow on the far
> right of the accounts tab column headers - you can turn off and on quite a
> few columns.
>
> Cheers David H.
>
> On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 at 08:59,  wrote:
>
>> I found the following online, but can't find the highlighted file on my
>> PC:
>>
>>
>>
>> Quit GnuCash and open GNC_DATA_DIR/books/your-book-name.gnucash.gcm in a
>> text editor. It contains blocks describing each register you've ever had
>> open with a heading that looks something like
>>
>> [Register 8305149bc462f9b5d118c259df706e7b]
>>
>> Don't worry about the number, just look through all of them for an entry
>> like (balance is an example, if you shrunk a different column look for its
>> name)
>>
>>
>>
>> I'd be grateful if someone gave me the file location for GNC_DATA_DIR . .
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> Alexandria, Virginia
>>
>> ___
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>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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Re: [GNC] Tutorial and Concepts

[Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user]

On 11/23/2024 9:15 AM, R Losey wrote:

I changed the subject because I want to start a discussion regarding the
below comment, which regularly appears in this group (I am not throwing
rocks at Stan).

Sometimes, it is not a matter of understanding double-entry accounting or
bookkeeping, but much more "how is this commonly done?". This group, at
times, seems to throw out the "go learn double-entry bookkeeping" or "read
the manual" just a shade too often, when some people may just want to know
"How is -X- usually done?" (Look, I know it is tricky due to different tax
requirements, how detail-oriented the person wants to be, and the
flexibility of GnuCash to accomplish something in multiple ways, to name a
few).


Gnucash is a software application that (partially) automates bookkeeping 
and provides a major shortcut for entering the "special case" of only 
two accounts involved (but a very common "special case", 90+% of all 
transactions*)


I do not see how one can use a tool that automates a process with no 
understanding of the process.


The tutorial is aimed at personal bookkeeping and sole businesses which 
is why not much about equity. If only one owner, equity is simple, not 
going to be doing much with it. Just the "net worth" on the books. But 
if a partnership or corporation, there are multiple owners, so tracking 
how much of that equity belongs to each means lots going on under 
equity. Otherwise, equity transactions will be rare (just adjustments -- 
when formal we do NOT alter prior transactions but enter a correcting 
transaction**)


The same with "close the books". Since gnucash can produce the usual 
reports without actually closing the books, few doing personal or sole 
bookkeeping will bother. But with multiple owners, probably going to so 
that the equity share of each can be adjusted >



Michael D Novack

* Yes, in the days of pen and ink on paper we did have available this 
shortcut aka "cashbook accounting" where for a small subset of the 
ledger we entered directly into those ledger accounts (if both accounts 
in the subset). A subset because even accordion foldout our paper was 
only so wide. With gnucash, can be the entire ledger.


** Personal bookkeeping example --- we had opened the books with certain 
initial values. Let's say we had "artwork" which had been entered at 
appraised value because tracked for insurance purposes. LATER we 
discover one of those paintings a forgery. The correcting transaction 
would be a debit to equity and a credit to that painting under artwork.



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Re: [GNC] My Bad! My balance column disappeared . . .

[Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user]

On 11/23/2024 3:01 AM, sunfish62--- via gnucash-user wrote:

It bears repeating: the folder on Windows in which the gcm files live 
(c:\Users\{USERNAME}\AppData\Roaming\GnuCash) is hidden by default.

File Explorer won't show it, and won't return it as a search result.

The About dialog since at least 4.13 (the version I'm running) includes links 
directly to this location, however, and you can type %APPDATA% in the File 
Explorer address bar to go there directly.


<< this is not gnucash specific >>

While the default for Windows is to have explorer not show you hidden 
files, that makes it difficult to properly set up backup procedures, 
rename data directories (prepare to recover from a bad build), etc. For 
example, the directory "app data" is hidden.


This is not the only Windows default setting which you should override.

Michael D Novack




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Re: [GNC] My Bad! My balance column disappeared . . .

[rob.britton]

I found the .gcm file and set the widths of balance, credit, and debit to 85.  
I tried to set Transfer to 200, but it will not resize.  See screenshot 
attached.

 

I understand that the width of the description column is fixed, which suggests 
that there’s a maximum number of characters for ALL the other columns.  Any 
idea what that number is?

 

Really appreciate anyone’s help!  

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: rob.brit...@airlearn.net  
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2024 9:26 AM
To: 'Gnucash Users' 
Subject: RE: [GNC] My Bad! My balance column disappeared . . .

 

Many thanks to all of you who replied.  I've got the problem almost fixed!

 

 

 

 

 

-Original Message-

From: gnucash-user < 
 
gnucash-user-bounces+rob.britton=airlearn@gnucash.org> On Behalf Of 
sunfish62--- via gnucash-user

Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2024 3:01 AM

To: Patrick James <  
patrickjame...@comcast.net>

Cc: Gnucash Users <  gnucash-user@gnucash.org>

Subject: Re: [GNC] My Bad! My balance column disappeared . . .

 

It bears repeating: the folder on Windows in which the gcm files live 
(c:\Users\{USERNAME}\AppData\Roaming\GnuCash) is hidden by default. 

 

File Explorer won't show it, and won't return it as a search result. 

 

The About dialog since at least 4.13 (the version I'm running) includes links 
directly to this location, however, and you can type %APPDATA% in the File 
Explorer address bar to go there directly. 

 

⁣David T. ​

 

On Nov 23, 2024, 3:37 AM, at 3:37 AM, Patrick James via gnucash-user < 
 gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

>If you are using Windows, you could search for the "gnucash.gcm"

>filename from c:\

> 

>For any OS, including Windows, see:

> 

>  
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Configuration_Locations

> 

> 

> 

>> On 11/22/2024 2:57 PM PST   
>> rob.brit...@airlearn.net wrote:

>> 

>>  

>> I found the following online, but can't find the highlighted file on

>my PC:

>> 

>>  

>> 

>> Quit GnuCash and open GNC_DATA_DIR/books/your-book-name.gnucash.gcm

>in a

>> text editor. It contains blocks describing each register you've ever

>had

>> open with a heading that looks something like

>> 

>> [Register 8305149bc462f9b5d118c259df706e7b]

>> 

>> Don't worry about the number, just look through all of them for an

>entry

>> like (balance is an example, if you shrunk a different column look

>for its

>> name)

>> 

>>  

>> 

>> I'd be grateful if someone gave me the file location for GNC_DATA_DIR

>. . .

>> 

>>  

>> 

>> Thanks,

>> 

>> Rob

>> 

>> Alexandria, Virginia

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Re: [GNC] My Bad! My balance column disappeared . . .

[sunfish62--- via gnucash-user]

It bears repeating: the folder on Windows in which the gcm files live 
(c:\Users\{USERNAME}\AppData\Roaming\GnuCash) is hidden by default. 

File Explorer won't show it, and won't return it as a search result. 

The About dialog since at least 4.13 (the version I'm running) includes links 
directly to this location, however, and you can type %APPDATA% in the File 
Explorer address bar to go there directly. 

⁣David T. ​

On Nov 23, 2024, 3:37 AM, at 3:37 AM, Patrick James via gnucash-user 
 wrote:
>If you are using Windows, you could search for the "gnucash.gcm"
>filename from c:\
>
>For any OS, including Windows, see:
>
>https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Configuration_Locations
>
>
>
>> On 11/22/2024 2:57 PM PST rob.brit...@airlearn.net wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> I found the following online, but can't find the highlighted file on
>my PC:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Quit GnuCash and open GNC_DATA_DIR/books/your-book-name.gnucash.gcm
>in a
>> text editor. It contains blocks describing each register you've ever
>had
>> open with a heading that looks something like
>> 
>> [Register 8305149bc462f9b5d118c259df706e7b]
>> 
>> Don't worry about the number, just look through all of them for an
>entry
>> like (balance is an example, if you shrunk a different column look
>for its
>> name)
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I'd be grateful if someone gave me the file location for GNC_DATA_DIR
>. . .
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Rob
>> 
>> Alexandria, Virginia
>___
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Re: [GNC] Downloading GnuCash updates

[David H]

I've got versions of gnucash in my downloads folder going back years :-)
It's up to you if you have the available storage but if you don't want to
keep old versions around you can always go to the gnucash home page and
download a previous version from
https://sourceforge.net/projects/gnucash/files/gnucash%20%28stable%29/ - it
has versions going back to 2007 but I wouldn't recommend them !!!

If you want to know if there are issues with a new version, monitor this
list for a couple of weeks after a release and see if there are any issues
and then upgrade.

Cheers David H.

On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 at 15:51, Edwin Booth  wrote:

> Hi. When a new update comes out, I’ve been downloading it and simply
> replacing the previous version without saving that older version. Is that a
> good idea? Or should I hang onto the earlier version until I know the new
> one is working properly? If so, how would I do that?
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Re: [GNC] Downloading GnuCash updates

[R Losey]

On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 11:51 PM Edwin Booth  wrote:

> Hi. When a new update comes out, I’ve been downloading it and simply
> replacing the previous version without saving that older version. Is that a
> good idea? Or should I hang onto the earlier version until I know the new
> one is working properly? If so, how would I do that?
>

It's generally fine; the people that work on GnuCash are dedicated and
rarely release buggy releases.

There are a few things to consider:

1 - how good is your backup system? In the awful case where a new version
corrupts your data file, could you recover?
2 - how critical is GnuCash? Some use it as an aid to track their personal
bank accounts and track expenses; others run small businesses with it, and
it may be the only place some of their data lies.
3 - Are you comfortable with setting up a test environment? You could,  for
example, create a virtual machine, copy your data file to it, install the
new version of GnuCash, and then use it there for while before installing
the new version onto your main system

There are many people that get new versions of GnuCash as soon as it comes
out.

Personally, I just wait for a few weeks and monitor this group to see if
any bugs show up in the new release. If users haven't found anything of
significance to me, I'll go ahead and install the new version.

I would not try to keep both an old and a new version of GnuCash on the
same machine... whenever you do install it, just replace it. I believe that
you can download older versions and re-install them, if you wind up needing
to do so.


-- 
_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?

[R Losey]

Ah, well, that makes it simpler. How about something like the following?
(I'm going to make up numbers instead of using yours).

Your instrument: 800
Sold for 1000
Shipping is 50
Thus, buyer sends you a check for 1050
You write a check for 50 to SHIPPER to pay for shipping

I would enter these as two transactions - the sale and the shipping payment.

Transaction 1:
Increase the bank account by 1050 (a "Deposit")
decrease your instrument value by 800
your income from the sale increases by 200
the remaining 50 should go into shipping expenses (as a "Rebate")

Transaction 2:
Decrease the bank account by 50
Shipping expense should have an Expense of 50


Because the buyer is paying shipping, you don't really have any shipping
expenses, but the way above, everything is recorded for future reference,
if need be. The shipping expense account will show both an increase of 50
that the buyer paid in, and the decrease when the shipping was paid.

How does that sound?



On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 6:59 AM Boniforti Flavio 
wrote:

> Hi Richard.
> It's one payment I got from the buyer, which includes both the value of
> the goods and the shipping costs.
> F.
>
> https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music
> https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music
> https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com
>
>
> Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 18:10 Uhr schrieb R Losey :
>
>> Hi. Your statement that "shipping is... paid by me, but the buyer is
>> giving me the money for the shipping" is a contradiction. If the buyer is
>> providing the funds, he is paying the shipping, not you. How you would
>> record this depends partly on preference and partly how this is done... is
>> the shipping included in the total sent to you? Is it a separate payment?
>> If it is part of the same "transaction", I would use one entry, but if he
>> gives you money at two different times or in two different ways, I would
>> use two transactions.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 2:15 AM Boniforti Flavio 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi David.
>>> Shipping is factually paid by me with my money, but the buyer is giving
>>> me
>>> the money for the shipping. So do I understand it right that I could
>>> separate this sale and just enter two transactions in my checking
>>> account?
>>> One would be the shipping costs, the other is the rest from 1214 EUR? I
>>> then would have two different "sources of money" for both zeroing the
>>> "Korg
>>> MS-20M" account and for the "shipping costs of sales" account. Could this
>>> work?
>>>
>>> F.
>>>
>>> https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music
>>> https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music
>>> https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 04:57 Uhr schrieb David Cousens <
>>> davidcousen...@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> > It all depends on whether the buyer or seller is paying the shipping
>>> > costs.
>>> >
>>> > If the seller is paying the shipping costs then it is an expense to the
>>> > seller but in this case the shipping costs are not explicitly included
>>> > in the purchase price and would be paid.
>>> >
>>> > For a business this could be recorded as
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Asset:Mus. Inst.  Cr 800.00
>>> > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00
>>> > Asset:Bank AccountDr 1241.00
>>> > Income:Sales Mus Inst Cr 1241.00
>>> >
>>> > when the funds are received
>>> >
>>> > Asset:Bank account   Cr 35.49
>>> > Expense:Shipping Dr 35.49
>>> >
>>> > when shipping is paid (these could be combined if simultaneous but
>>> > ideally better to keep the splits with memo annotations)
>>> >
>>> > and the nett profit on the sale is 1241-800-35.49 = 405.51
>>> >
>>> > If the buyer is paying the shipping costs, then the purchase price
>>> > should have included the shipping over and above the sale price of the
>>> > instrument itself and the seller cannot claim the shipping as an
>>> > expense and part of the money received pays for the shipping.
>>> >
>>> > For this case it could be recorded as
>>> >
>>> > Asset BankDr 1178.51
>>> > Asset:Mus. Inst.  Cr 800.00
>>> > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00
>>> > Income:Sales  Cr 1178.51
>>> >
>>> > Asset:BankDr 35.49
>>> > Liability:ShippingCr 35.49
>>> >
>>> > when the funds are received
>>> >
>>> > and when the shipping is paid
>>> >
>>> > Asset:Bank   Cr 35.49
>>> > Liability:Shipping   Dr 35.49
>>> >
>>> > and in this case the net profit is 1178.51-800 = 478.51
>>> >
>>> > Which of these it is appropriate should be clear from the sales
>>> > invoice.
>>> >
>>> > David Cousens
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, 2024-11-21 at 20:52 -0600, R Losey wrote:
>>> > > Expense accounts, because they are usually only increased, just have
>>> > > Expenses for debits. The credit is called a "Rebate". I don't know if
>>> > > you
>>> > > meant to make that account an expense account.
>>> > >
>>> > > I don't see an Income anywhere in the list.
>>> > >
>>> > > Your asset should have gone down by 800 EUR, as you did. The gain in
>>> > > this
>>> > > sale is 414 EUR, of which the shipping should be an expense,