Re: [GNC] Adaptive learning reset of imports

[Chris Green]

On Wed, Dec 08, 2021 at 12:25:58AM -0600, Jeff wrote:
> My data files are all saved on an external drive so I can take the drive
> anywhere I need to with my laptop instead of staying with my dedicated
> server.
> 
I run syncthing on my laptop and desktop machines.  It synchronises
(among other things) my GnuCash files.  I can thus work on either
machine and not worry about using an external drive or copying files
back and forth.  It's totally transparent for me (as a user).

Obviously this only works because I'm the only user and I don't try
and run Gnucash on two machines at the same time, I always exit from
GnuCash after using it.

-- 
Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] Bitcoin is legal currency in El Salvador - why not

[Michael or Penny Novack]

Things change quite quickly in the crypto currency scene.

1) The Royal National Lifeboat Institute (RNLI) was the first major charity
in the UK to accept donations by bitcoin

https://rnli.org/support-us/give-money/bitcoin-donations

2) Newegg, which is a pretty large company, accepts bitcoin



You are confusing some things. For example., the fact that a charity 
would accept bitcoin donations does NOT make bitcoin a "currency". They 
would also accept say a major work of art, a yacht, etc. They are 
unlikely to turn down anything of value.  BUT --- look at the 
"undiscussed topics" and the problems they raise below. So yes, they 
would accept a donation of stock/securities and this is common over here 
because the favorable tax treatment for "gifts of appreciated stock". 
But what if that is stock in closely held corporation?


That Newegg would accept bitcoin also does not imply " currency". Note 
that while businesses do not usually engage in "barter" with customers 
when a ;large number of customers they might engage in barter with other 
companies or even with customers when those are few in number. We have 
NOT yet had discussions about how to treat a number of topics. Which is 
proper since the accounting issues aren't specifically gnucash issues. 
For example.


1) Stocks and other securities that are not very liquid  we have 
been assuming when discussing stocks, etc. that they have some well 
defined publicly known market price. That we can just "look up the 
price". This is not always the case. In fact, the number of small 
corporations whose "stock" is not publicly traded probably far exceeds 
the number that are publicly traded.


2) Purchase of a business where price paid and book value are different. 
What is "goodwill" and how is it accounted for?


3) Barter transactions. Especially when what is being traded has value 
far different than its "book value" and like closely held stock, no well 
defined ":market price".


Michael D Novack

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[GNC] Advanced Portfolio Template: Population of data with dividends

[Thomas]

Dear User-List,

I successfully populated the advanced portfolio template with most of
the data by selecting of all the accounts of my securities.
What I did not manage to get filled is the "money in" column, to also
include received dividends in the calculations. I tried to add the
accounts with the dividends, but that was not successful.
My question essentially is, how to properly fill the "money in" column
with dividends.

I also tried to decipher the template definition in GitHub, but
unfortunately, I couldn't identify what I would need to do to achieve
my goal.

Version: 4.8
Version-ID: 4.8a+(2021-09-28)

Thanks a lot in advance!

Best,
Thomas
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Re: [GNC] Bitcoin is legal currency in El Salvador - why not

[Dustin Henning]

On 12/7/21 11:51 PM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:


Things change quite quickly in the crypto currency scene.

1) The Royal National Lifeboat Institute (RNLI) was the first major charity
in the UK to accept donations by bitcoin

https://rnli.org/support-us/give-money/bitcoin-donations

2) Newegg, which is a pretty large company, accepts bitcoin

https://promotions.newegg.com/nepro/16-6277/index.html
I guess neither of these very large institutions are going to be using
GnuCash.

There’s a lot written about bitcoin on the website of the Sage accounting
package

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sage.com/en-gb/blog/what-is-cryptocurrency/amp/

I assume that means Sage does support bitcoin.

Dave.
   


That is a non-sequitur argument.  Most institutions are likely using 
payment processors and accounting in native currency to begin with, and 
institutions using actual crypto would still follow their accountant's 
advice likely tracking it as an asset which is already possible. Beyond 
the fallacy, I'm not sure why you seem to think it should matter to 
users or developers here whether said institutions use this free open 
source software anyway.


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Re: [GNC] Bitcoin is legal currency in El Salvador - why not

[Dustin Henning]

I'm noi sure how this is relevant.  Cash and gift cards are often used 
in these ways, too.  Are you suggesting GnuCcash should remove support 
for cash acounts?


On 12/7/21 10:42 PM, Tim Hume via gnucash-user wrote:

It is true that Bitcoin is loved by speculators and scammers. But it does have 
legitimate use as a currency too. Government regulators are slowly moving to 
treat Bitcoin transactions similarly to traditional currency transactions 
between countries because of money laundering and terrorism financing concerns.

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Wednesday, December 8th, 2021 at 14:36,  wrote:


Kalpesh

Another thing to be wary of. The scammers love bitcoin no regulation no 
protections: 
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-08/cryptocurrency-scams-targeting-australians-losing-millions/100678848

David

On Tue, 2021-12-07 at 14:19 -0500, Kalpesh Patel wrote:


Why not to set this up as a true currency in GNC, instead of Stock or Mutual

Fund?

Message: 8

Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 12:42:21 +

From: Eric Coates mailto:twistedw...@talktalk.net >

To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org

Subject: Re: [GNC] Bitcoin is legal currency in El Salvador - why not

 add BTC?


Message-ID: <6bc32ed3-ac6b-5924-1990-f852c6829...@talktalk.net

mailto:6bc32ed3-ac6b-5924-1990-f852c6829...@talktalk.net >

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Hi

To (slightly) misquote John Ralls

"Bitcoin is neither a major nor a minor currency. It's not a currency at

all:...[it is]? a speculation vehicle, not a currency."

but as shares are also "speculation vehicles" a possibility arises.

Starting from Dustin Henning's comment, some trivial experimentation shows

that it is possible to set up a Bitcoin account in GnuCash by classifying it

as a Stock (although Mutual Fund may be more appropriate as, I understand,

fractional parts of Bitcoin are possible) and setting up Bitcoin as a

security. And (somewhat to my surprise) it is possible to get on-line quotes

by specifying the Symbol/abbreviation as BTC-GBP and using Yahoo as JSON as

the source in the Single source drop-down.

(BTC -USD is also available, others may be - I haven't checked).

So (probably after some experimentation) Bitcoin can already be handled

within GnuCash!

"They knew not how well they built"

Take care

Eric

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Re: [GNC] Advanced Portfolio Template: Population of data with dividends

[Tom Teixeira]

On 12/8/21 10:09 AM, Thomas wrote:

Dear User-List,

I successfully populated the advanced portfolio template with most of
the data by selecting of all the accounts of my securities.
What I did not manage to get filled is the "money in" column, to also
include received dividends in the calculations. I tried to add the
accounts with the dividends, but that was not successful.
My question essentially is, how to properly fill the "money in" column
with dividends.


I don't remember where it is in the manual, but add a split to the 
dividend transaction and include the asset account for the stock. You 
shouldn't have to enter any amount for the stock itself unless you are 
reinvesting some or all of the dividend.



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Re: [GNC] Advanced Portfolio Template: Population of data with dividends

[David Carlson]

IIRC Tom's suggestion is the key to getting dividends correctly assigned in
the Advanced Portfolio Report.  I cannot find the documentation either, but
there is a lot of information in the Tutorial chapter on investments <
https://gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=4&lang=C&doc=guide>

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 9:36 AM Tom Teixeira 
wrote:

> On 12/8/21 10:09 AM, Thomas wrote:
> > Dear User-List,
> >
> > I successfully populated the advanced portfolio template with most of
> > the data by selecting of all the accounts of my securities.
> > What I did not manage to get filled is the "money in" column, to also
> > include received dividends in the calculations. I tried to add the
> > accounts with the dividends, but that was not successful.
> > My question essentially is, how to properly fill the "money in" column
> > with dividends.
>
> I don't remember where it is in the manual, but add a split to the
> dividend transaction and include the asset account for the stock. You
> shouldn't have to enter any amount for the stock itself unless you are
> reinvesting some or all of the dividend.
>
>
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-- 
David Carlson
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Re: [GNC] Advanced Portfolio Template: Population of data with dividends

[Thomas]

Thanks Tom and David for your quick replies!

I actually found that info some time ago as well, but it seems not to
do the trick (for me).
In the security's account I have the buy transactions (which are taken
into account by the advanced portfolio template) and also the dividend
payments in a "neutral" transaction as part of the dividend payment
transaction. That means that the dividend transaction has multiple
accounts involved (translated, so terms might not be 100% accurate):
- "Earnings:Dividends" containing the whole amount I get from the company
- "Expenses:Taxes" the amount of taxes that was deducted from the above
- "Assets:ClearingAccount" the amount that remained after the deduction of taxes
- "Assets:Securities:CompanyXY" just added without any amount

Is there something I am missing to make it work?

Best,
Thomas

On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 at 16:45, David Carlson  wrote:
>
> IIRC Tom's suggestion is the key to getting dividends correctly assigned in
> the Advanced Portfolio Report.  I cannot find the documentation either, but
> there is a lot of information in the Tutorial chapter on investments <
> https://gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=4&lang=C&doc=guide>
>
> On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 9:36 AM Tom Teixeira 
> wrote:
>
> > On 12/8/21 10:09 AM, Thomas wrote:
> > > Dear User-List,
> > >
> > > I successfully populated the advanced portfolio template with most of
> > > the data by selecting of all the accounts of my securities.
> > > What I did not manage to get filled is the "money in" column, to also
> > > include received dividends in the calculations. I tried to add the
> > > accounts with the dividends, but that was not successful.
> > > My question essentially is, how to properly fill the "money in" column
> > > with dividends.
> >
> > I don't remember where it is in the manual, but add a split to the
> > dividend transaction and include the asset account for the stock. You
> > shouldn't have to enter any amount for the stock itself unless you are
> > reinvesting some or all of the dividend.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
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>
>
> --
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Re: [GNC] Advanced Portfolio Template: Population of data with dividends

[Richard Ullger]

I recall the discussions that took place on the mailing list years ago 
when fixing up the Advanced Portfolio Report.


The 'Money In' column reflects only the actual cash You have used to 
purchase the security. Dividend and interest income is included in the 
'Income' column only and not in the 'Money In' column.


'Basis' does include the cost of the security whether bought from your 
own funds or from income.



On 08/12/2021 17:36, Thomas wrote:

Thanks Tom and David for your quick replies!

I actually found that info some time ago as well, but it seems not to
do the trick (for me).
In the security's account I have the buy transactions (which are taken
into account by the advanced portfolio template) and also the dividend
payments in a "neutral" transaction as part of the dividend payment
transaction. That means that the dividend transaction has multiple
accounts involved (translated, so terms might not be 100% accurate):
- "Earnings:Dividends" containing the whole amount I get from the company
- "Expenses:Taxes" the amount of taxes that was deducted from the above
- "Assets:ClearingAccount" the amount that remained after the deduction of taxes
- "Assets:Securities:CompanyXY" just added without any amount

Is there something I am missing to make it work?

Best,
Thomas

On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 at 16:45, David Carlson  wrote:


IIRC Tom's suggestion is the key to getting dividends correctly assigned in
the Advanced Portfolio Report.  I cannot find the documentation either, but
there is a lot of information in the Tutorial chapter on investments <
https://gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=4&lang=C&doc=guide>

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 9:36 AM Tom Teixeira 
wrote:


On 12/8/21 10:09 AM, Thomas wrote:

Dear User-List,

I successfully populated the advanced portfolio template with most of
the data by selecting of all the accounts of my securities.
What I did not manage to get filled is the "money in" column, to also
include received dividends in the calculations. I tried to add the
accounts with the dividends, but that was not successful.
My question essentially is, how to properly fill the "money in" column
with dividends.


I don't remember where it is in the manual, but add a split to the
dividend transaction and include the asset account for the stock. You
shouldn't have to enter any amount for the stock itself unless you are
reinvesting some or all of the dividend.


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--
David Carlson
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Re: [GNC] Advanced Portfolio Template: Population of data with dividends

[David Carlson]

If dividends are reinvested, they do add to the cost basis.  Wouldn't that
be considered "Money In" by the  Advanced Portfolio Report?  Or is it only
"New" money?

I think that the dividend income and security purchase or zero share
security reference split lines need to be in the same transaction for the
APR to assign the dividends to the correct security.  Then, if "Money In"
does include the reinvested dividends, the report should find them.

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 12:09 PM Richard Ullger  wrote:

> I recall the discussions that took place on the mailing list years ago
> when fixing up the Advanced Portfolio Report.
>
> The 'Money In' column reflects only the actual cash You have used to
> purchase the security. Dividend and interest income is included in the
> 'Income' column only and not in the 'Money In' column.
>
> 'Basis' does include the cost of the security whether bought from your
> own funds or from income.
>
>
> On 08/12/2021 17:36, Thomas wrote:
> > Thanks Tom and David for your quick replies!
> >
> > I actually found that info some time ago as well, but it seems not to
> > do the trick (for me).
> > In the security's account I have the buy transactions (which are taken
> > into account by the advanced portfolio template) and also the dividend
> > payments in a "neutral" transaction as part of the dividend payment
> > transaction. That means that the dividend transaction has multiple
> > accounts involved (translated, so terms might not be 100% accurate):
> > - "Earnings:Dividends" containing the whole amount I get from the company
> > - "Expenses:Taxes" the amount of taxes that was deducted from the above
> > - "Assets:ClearingAccount" the amount that remained after the deduction
> of taxes
> > - "Assets:Securities:CompanyXY" just added without any amount
> >
> > Is there something I am missing to make it work?
> >
> > Best,
> > Thomas
> >
> > On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 at 16:45, David Carlson 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> IIRC Tom's suggestion is the key to getting dividends correctly
> assigned in
> >> the Advanced Portfolio Report.  I cannot find the documentation either,
> but
> >> there is a lot of information in the Tutorial chapter on investments <
> >> https://gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=4&lang=C&doc=guide>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 9:36 AM Tom Teixeira 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 12/8/21 10:09 AM, Thomas wrote:
>  Dear User-List,
> 
>  I successfully populated the advanced portfolio template with most of
>  the data by selecting of all the accounts of my securities.
>  What I did not manage to get filled is the "money in" column, to also
>  include received dividends in the calculations. I tried to add the
>  accounts with the dividends, but that was not successful.
>  My question essentially is, how to properly fill the "money in" column
>  with dividends.
> >>>
> >>> I don't remember where it is in the manual, but add a split to the
> >>> dividend transaction and include the asset account for the stock. You
> >>> shouldn't have to enter any amount for the stock itself unless you are
> >>> reinvesting some or all of the dividend.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> gnucash-user mailing list
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> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> David Carlson
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[GNC] Directors loan - do I need an expense account?

[Dr. David Kirkby]

A "directors loan" is quite a common thing in the UK for companies. The
concept is fairly simple, so anyone in the world should be able to
understand my description.

Generally the director loans the company money to get it up and running, so
the company has a liability to the director.

https://www.gov.uk/directors-loans/you-lend-your-company-money

The director can charge the company interest, but I don't do this, as it
makes one's personal taxation more complicated.

It's also possible for the director, or close family member to borrow money
from the company with no interest, subject to certain restrictions - it has
to be paid by a certain time.

https://www.gov.uk/directors-loans

I don't think my accountant will particularly care how I do this, but I
thought I would do it this way. If anyone can suggest a better way, please
do.

1) Add myself as a vendor
2) Since the company owes me money, I set the account

Liabilities -> Accounts Payable -> Director Loan.

as I thought that was the closest thing to allowing money to be moved out
of the company, into my personal bank account.

When I tried to pay myself using GnuCash, I was expecting money to go out
of the company bank account,into my personal account, and reduce the
company's liability. However when I set up a bill, I could see it was only
possible to bill this as assets or expenses - *not as a liabilitiy*.

Does this mean I need to set up another account for expenses?

Expenses  -> Director loan ?

If I do that, I could pay from the  company bank account into the Expenses
-> Director loan account, *but it would not reduce the liabilities account*.
I know "split transactions" exist, but I have not studied them. Is that
what I need here?

Can someone please point me in the right direction, so I can move money out
of the company, into my personal account and reduce the company's
liability?

In the event the company paid me the complete directors loan, and I decided
to borrow money from the company, would that expense account just go
negative?

Dave
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[GNC] Trouble with gnc-fq-dump

[Daniel Torstenson]

Hi, I'm trying to get online quotes to work with Alphavantage, but I'm
having trouble. I'd appreciate any pointers for debugging this, as I don't
see anyone else with this problem after searching the web a little bit.

I'm running Linux.

I have an Alphavantage API key.

A call to

https://www.alphavantage.co/query?function=SYMBOL_SEARCH&keywords=IBM&apikey=MY_API_KEY

gives the expected results

> gnc-fq-check

gives

("1.51" "aex" "alphavantage" "amfiindia" "asegr" "asx" "aufunds"
"australia" "bamosz" "bet" "bloomberg" "bourso" "bse" "bseindia" "canada"
"canadamutual" "comdirect" "cse" "deka" "dutch" "dwsfunds" "europe"
"fetch_live_currencies" "fidelity" "fidelity_direct" "finanzpartner"
"fondsweb" "fool" "ftfunds" "fundata" "fundlibrary" "goldmoney" "greece"
"hu" "hufund" "hungary" "hustock" "iexcloud" "india" "indiamutual"
"known_currencies" "morningstarau" "morningstarjp" "mstaruk" "nasdaq"
"nseindia" "nyse" "nzx" "onvista" "oslobors" "romania" "seb_funds" "six"
"tiaacref" "tmx" "tradeville" "troweprice" "troweprice_direct" "tsp"
"ukfunds" "unionfunds" "usa" "usfedbonds" "yahoo_json" "za")

> export ALPHAVANTAGE_API_KEY=MY_API_KEY
> echo $ALPHAVANTAGE_API_KEY

gives MY_API_KEY correctly.

> gnc-fq-dump -v alphavantage IBM

gives

Finance::Quote fields Gnucash uses:
symbol: IBM (deduced)<=== required
  date: ** missing **<=== recommended
  currency: ** missing **<=== required
  last: **missing**  <=\
   nav: **missing**  <=== one of these
 price: **missing**  <=/
  timezone:  <=== optional

** This stock quote cannot be used by GnuCash!


All fields returned by Finance::Quote for stock IBM

stock   field  value
-   -  -
IBM  errormsg: Not Implemented
IBM  last: **missing**
IBM   nav: **missing**
IBM price: **missing**
IBM   success: 0

I get the same for any ticker symbol I try.

Strangely, when I try

> gnc-fq-dump -v yahoo_json IBM ✔

I get

Finance::Quote fields Gnucash uses:
symbol: IBM  <=== required
  date: ** missing **<=== recommended
  currency: ** missing **<=== required
  last: **missing**  <=\
   nav: **missing**  <=== one of these
 price: **missing**  <=/
  timezone:  <=== optional

** This stock quote cannot be used by GnuCash!


All fields returned by Finance::Quote for stock IBM

stock   field  value
-   -  -
IBM  errormsg: Error retrieving quote for IBM. Attempt to fetch the
URL https://query1.finance.yahoo.com/v7/finance/quote?symbols=IBM resulted
in HTTP response 501 (Not Implemented)
IBM  last: **missing**
IBM   nav: **missing**
IBM price: **missing**
IBM   success: 0
IBMsymbol: IBM

It claims I'm getting error 501. But if I just copy and paste that URL into
a browser, I get the correct results. What could be going on here?

Thanks!
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[GNC] An automated depreciation calculator would be really helpful.

[Dr. David Kirkby]

A friend of mine bought some Excel spreadsheets for his company accounts.
He has used them for many years and finds them good. He has suggested I use
them, but I'm not keen on that idea. At any point in time he can see
exactly what the depreciation of an item is, and so exactly when the value
has fallen to zero.

I read about depreciation in GnuCash at

https://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/chapter_dep.html

but it seems rather limited. The last paragraph on this page

https://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/dep_accounts1.html

says

"The actual input of the depreciation amounts is done by hand every
accounting period. There is no way in *GnuCash* (as of yet) to perform the
depreciation scheme calculations automatically, or to input the values
automatically into the appropriate accounts. However, since an accounting
period is typically one year, this really is not much work to do by hand."

I don't think it's true to say it's not much work to do. I know my
accountant says one should start depreciating from the day something goes
into service, but he uses a different scheme, which is good enough. If an
item is purchased before the halfway through the month, he considers it
purchased on the 1st of that month, and if after 50% of the way though the
month, he considers it purchased the following next month. The errors in
this should be small.

So each time an asset is purchased, one needs to start depreciating it from
then. It's not true to say this is just done once per year.

Of course, I'm well aware that many people will have suggestions on how to
improve the software, and the developer's time is limited. But some
automated way of depreciating items would be very useful. As they say, if
you don't ask you will not get, so there's no harm in asking!

Dave
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Re: [GNC] An automated depreciation calculator would be really helpful.

[Liz]

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 00:34:04 +
"Dr. David Kirkby"  wrote:

> So each time an asset is purchased, one needs to start depreciating
> it from then. It's not true to say this is just done once per year.

My scheme is to do all the calculations shortly after purchase, until I
get to zero. I'm not sure whether this is the same as my accountant's
calculations.
So I enter all the transactions, each for a different year and I never
have to look up again whether it was a 5% or a 30% or a 100%
depreciation schedule.

I can see an advantage to a calculation scheme in software to do
it for me.

Liz
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Re: [GNC] An automated depreciation calculator would be really helpful.

[David Carlson]

That would be nice, but, as you opened the discussion with the note that
you use spreadsheets to perform the calculations, you realize that
different political jurisdictions have different accounting standards, and
to build code in GnuCash to accommodate all the possibilities and keep it
up to date would be even worse than trying to keep the tax report up to
date for the United States Federal Taxes, which AFAIK is done by one
devoted individual because he makes it his mission.

I do try to track depreciation for two automobiles but I calculate the
numbers in a spreadsheet and manually enter annual transactions as that is
sufficient for my intellectual curiosity.

If you want to make that your mission the developers would be able to help
you with the mechanics of writing the code if you can do the calculations.

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 6:35 PM Dr. David Kirkby <
drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:

> A friend of mine bought some Excel spreadsheets for his company accounts.
> He has used them for many years and finds them good. He has suggested I use
> them, but I'm not keen on that idea. At any point in time he can see
> exactly what the depreciation of an item is, and so exactly when the value
> has fallen to zero.
>
> I read about depreciation in GnuCash at
>
> https://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/chapter_dep.html
>
> but it seems rather limited. The last paragraph on this page
>
> https://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/dep_accounts1.html
>
> says
>
> "The actual input of the depreciation amounts is done by hand every
> accounting period. There is no way in *GnuCash* (as of yet) to perform the
> depreciation scheme calculations automatically, or to input the values
> automatically into the appropriate accounts. However, since an accounting
> period is typically one year, this really is not much work to do by hand."
>
> I don't think it's true to say it's not much work to do. I know my
> accountant says one should start depreciating from the day something goes
> into service, but he uses a different scheme, which is good enough. If an
> item is purchased before the halfway through the month, he considers it
> purchased on the 1st of that month, and if after 50% of the way though the
> month, he considers it purchased the following next month. The errors in
> this should be small.
>
> So each time an asset is purchased, one needs to start depreciating it from
> then. It's not true to say this is just done once per year.
>
> Of course, I'm well aware that many people will have suggestions on how to
> improve the software, and the developer's time is limited. But some
> automated way of depreciating items would be very useful. As they say, if
> you don't ask you will not get, so there's no harm in asking!
>
> Dave
> ___
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-- 
David Carlson
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Re: [GNC] An automated depreciation calculator would be really helpful.

[Gyle McCollam]

What I do is set up a placeholder account for the asset.  I set up sub accounts 
for the actual asset purchase and another for the depreciation of the asset.  
You could then set up a scheduled transaction to record the depreciation each 
month, quarter, semiannually, or annually depending on how you want to record 
it.  There you can set up how many depreciation transactions you would like and 
it will stop at that point.


Thank You,
Gyle McCollam

Gyle McCollam

609.680.2326 Mobile

gmccol...@live.com   email


From: gnucash-user  on 
behalf of Dr. David Kirkby 
Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 7:34 PM
To: GNU Cash User 
Subject: [GNC] An automated depreciation calculator would be really helpful.

A friend of mine bought some Excel spreadsheets for his company accounts.
He has used them for many years and finds them good. He has suggested I use
them, but I'm not keen on that idea. At any point in time he can see
exactly what the depreciation of an item is, and so exactly when the value
has fallen to zero.

I read about depreciation in GnuCash at

https://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/chapter_dep.html

but it seems rather limited. The last paragraph on this page

https://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/dep_accounts1.html

says

"The actual input of the depreciation amounts is done by hand every
accounting period. There is no way in *GnuCash* (as of yet) to perform the
depreciation scheme calculations automatically, or to input the values
automatically into the appropriate accounts. However, since an accounting
period is typically one year, this really is not much work to do by hand."

I don't think it's true to say it's not much work to do. I know my
accountant says one should start depreciating from the day something goes
into service, but he uses a different scheme, which is good enough. If an
item is purchased before the halfway through the month, he considers it
purchased on the 1st of that month, and if after 50% of the way though the
month, he considers it purchased the following next month. The errors in
this should be small.

So each time an asset is purchased, one needs to start depreciating it from
then. It's not true to say this is just done once per year.

Of course, I'm well aware that many people will have suggestions on how to
improve the software, and the developer's time is limited. But some
automated way of depreciating items would be very useful. As they say, if
you don't ask you will not get, so there's no harm in asking!

Dave
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Re: [GNC] Directors loan - do I need an expense account?

[Gyle McCollam]

I would set the loan up in a loan account (liability), not under accounts 
payable.  When you want to make a payment, you would debit the loan account and 
credit accounts payable director.  When you actually pay the "invoice" you 
would debit accounts payable and credit the checking account.


Thank You,
Gyle McCollam

Gyle McCollam

609.680.2326 Mobile

gmccol...@live.com   email


From: gnucash-user  on 
behalf of Dr. David Kirkby 
Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 6:49 PM
To: GNU Cash User 
Subject: [GNC] Directors loan - do I need an expense account?

A "directors loan" is quite a common thing in the UK for companies. The
concept is fairly simple, so anyone in the world should be able to
understand my description.

Generally the director loans the company money to get it up and running, so
the company has a liability to the director.

https://www.gov.uk/directors-loans/you-lend-your-company-money

The director can charge the company interest, but I don't do this, as it
makes one's personal taxation more complicated.

It's also possible for the director, or close family member to borrow money
from the company with no interest, subject to certain restrictions - it has
to be paid by a certain time.

https://www.gov.uk/directors-loans

I don't think my accountant will particularly care how I do this, but I
thought I would do it this way. If anyone can suggest a better way, please
do.

1) Add myself as a vendor
2) Since the company owes me money, I set the account

Liabilities -> Accounts Payable -> Director Loan.

as I thought that was the closest thing to allowing money to be moved out
of the company, into my personal bank account.

When I tried to pay myself using GnuCash, I was expecting money to go out
of the company bank account,into my personal account, and reduce the
company's liability. However when I set up a bill, I could see it was only
possible to bill this as assets or expenses - *not as a liabilitiy*.

Does this mean I need to set up another account for expenses?

Expenses  -> Director loan ?

If I do that, I could pay from the  company bank account into the Expenses
-> Director loan account, *but it would not reduce the liabilities account*.
I know "split transactions" exist, but I have not studied them. Is that
what I need here?

Can someone please point me in the right direction, so I can move money out
of the company, into my personal account and reduce the company's
liability?

In the event the company paid me the complete directors loan, and I decided
to borrow money from the company, would that expense account just go
negative?

Dave
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Re: [GNC] An automated depreciation calculator would be really helpful.

[Dr. David Kirkby]

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 at 00:47, David Carlson 
wrote:

> That would be nice, but, as you opened the discussion with the note that
> you use spreadsheets to perform the calculations,
>

No I did not. I said a friend uses a spreadsheet for depreciation, after
purchasing some accounting add-on for Excel.

I have in the past just given my accountant the date of purchase, and what
the asset is. He works out the depreciation, but I have a rough idea how he
does it. It's the first method mentioned here

https://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/dep_value1.html

I would assume that if the calculator was added, that could do a linear
method, it would not take too much effort to use a different algorithm
There are examples of three methods at

https://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/dep_value1.html

The most difficult task would be getting it to use to do the work - once
set up, I doubt that a radio button or an entry in preference that just
does a different bit of mathematics would be too hard.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to do this, and as I stated, I'm well
aware it's much easier to thing of ways of improving software, than to
actually do it on an open-source project, where people have other jobs.

Dave
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Re: [GNC] An automated depreciation calculator would be really helpful.

[davidcousens49]

Dave,

Depreciation rules are generally set by your taxation system and your accountant
will likely be reflecting those rules that apply in your jurisdiction. If you
are going to do the depreciation calculations then you will need to become
acquainted with the rules in your jurisdiction. Rules may also be different for
particular capital items and asset classes. If your taxation authority is nice
they will have published the rules on line. From the little I have read
depreciation is not an allowable business expense for tax purposes in the UK -
check that with your accountant though.

I personally used to maintain a spreadsheet for each major capital item I was
depreciating and similarly for items which could be pooled under the
depreciation rules and perform all the necessary calculations in the spreadsheet
and just record the resulting figures as required in my accounting program (not
GnuCash in the days when I was still running a business). 

I suspect depreciation rules vary considerably in detail from jurisdiction to
jurisdiction making it difficult to define a general calculator which will work
adequately across all jurisdictions. It is a bit like loan repayment
calculations, they will likely come out pretty close but the methodology has to
be exactly the same to get the same result.

It should be possible to use the transaction file association to link the
transactions to a depreciation spreadsheet data file, which since most OS's can
initiate a program based on the file extension should allow the spreadsheet
program to be launched from the file association - haven't tested this out for a
spreadsheet but it does work for pdfs on Linux.

David Cousens


On Thu, 2021-12-09 at 00:34 +, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:
> A friend of mine bought some Excel spreadsheets for his company accounts.
> He has used them for many years and finds them good. He has suggested I use
> them, but I'm not keen on that idea. At any point in time he can see
> exactly what the depreciation of an item is, and so exactly when the value
> has fallen to zero.
> 
> I read about depreciation in GnuCash at
> 
> https://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/chapter_dep.html
> 
> but it seems rather limited. The last paragraph on this page
> 
> https://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/dep_accounts1.html
> 
> says
> 
> "The actual input of the depreciation amounts is done by hand every
> accounting period. There is no way in *GnuCash* (as of yet) to perform the
> depreciation scheme calculations automatically, or to input the values
> automatically into the appropriate accounts. However, since an accounting
> period is typically one year, this really is not much work to do by hand."
> 
> I don't think it's true to say it's not much work to do. I know my
> accountant says one should start depreciating from the day something goes
> into service, but he uses a different scheme, which is good enough. If an
> item is purchased before the halfway through the month, he considers it
> purchased on the 1st of that month, and if after 50% of the way though the
> month, he considers it purchased the following next month. The errors in
> this should be small.
> 
> So each time an asset is purchased, one needs to start depreciating it from
> then. It's not true to say this is just done once per year.
> 
> Of course, I'm well aware that many people will have suggestions on how to
> improve the software, and the developer's time is limited. But some
> automated way of depreciating items would be very useful. As they say, if
> you don't ask you will not get, so there's no harm in asking!
> 
> Dave
> ___
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Re: [GNC] Trouble with gnc-fq-dump

[Frank H. Ellenberger]

Hi Daniel,

I get:
> gnc-fq-dump -v alphavantage IBM
Finance::Quote fields Gnucash uses:
symbol: IBM  <=== required
  date: 12/08/2021   <=== recommended
  currency: USD  <=== required
  last: 123.0200 <=\
   nav:  <=== one of these
 price:  <=/
  timezone:  <=== optional

All fields returned by Finance::Quote for stock IBM

stock   field  value
-   -  -
IBM close: 121.5800
IBM  currency: USD
IBMcurrency_set_by_fq: 1
IBM  date: 12/08/2021
IBM  high: 123.3800
IBM   isodate: 2021-12-08
IBM  last: 123.0200
IBM   low: 121.5200
IBMmethod: alphavantage
IBM   net: 1.4400
IBM  open: 122.
IBM  p_change: 1.1844
IBM   success: 1
IBMsymbol: IBM
IBMvolume: 5483948

> gnc-fq-dump -v yahoo_json IBM
Finance::Quote fields Gnucash uses:
symbol: IBM  <=== required
  date: 12/08/2021   <=== recommended
  currency: USD  <=== required
  last: 123.02   <=\
   nav:  <=== one of these
 price:  <=/
  timezone:  <=== optional

All fields returned by Finance::Quote for stock IBM

stock   field  value
-   -  -
IBM close: 121.58
IBM  currency: USD
IBM  date: 12/08/2021
IBM div_yield: 5.3791743
IBM   eps: 5.283
IBM  exchange: Sourced from Yahoo Finance (as JSON)
IBM  high: 123.38
IBM   isodate: 2021-12-08
IBM  last: 123.02
IBM   low: 121.52
IBMmethod: yahoo_json
IBM  name: IBM (International Business Machines)
IBM  open: 122
IBMpe: 23.28601
IBM   success: 1
IBMsymbol: IBM
IBM  type: EQUITY
IBMvolume: 5454786
IBMyear_range:112.19885 - 146.11855

> gnc-fq-check
("1.51" "aex" "alphavantage" "amfiindia" "asegr" "asx" "aufunds"
"australia" "bamosz" "bet" "bloomberg" "bourso" "bse" "bseindia"
"canada" "canadamutual" "comdirect" "cse" "deka" "dutch" "dwsfunds"
"europe" "fetch_live_currencies" "fidelity" "fidelity_direct"
"finanzpartner" "fondsweb" "fool" "ftfunds" "fundata" "fundlibrary"
"goldmoney" "greece" "hu" "hufund" "hungary" "hustock" "iexcloud"
"india" "indiamutual" "known_currencies" "morningstarau" "morningstarjp"
"mstaruk" "nasdaq" "nseindia" "nyse" "nzx" "onvista" "oslobors"
"romania" "seb_funds" "six" "tiaacref" "tmx" "tradeville" "troweprice"
"troweprice_direct" "tsp" "ukfunds" "unionfunds" "usa" "usfedbonds"
"yahoo_json" "za")
> date
Do 9. Dez 05:16:14 CET 2021

Did you read https://www.alphavantage.co/support/#support about the
limits of the free key?

But as yahoo is also broken for you, a few steps you could try:
* Check your network and security (firewall, antivirus…) settings,
* reinstall F::Q
* reinstall perl

which distri?

Regards
Frank

Am 09.12.21 um 00:58 schrieb Daniel Torstenson:
> Hi, I'm trying to get online quotes to work with Alphavantage, but I'm
> having trouble. I'd appreciate any pointers for debugging this, as I don't
> see anyone else with this problem after searching the web a little bit.
> 
> I'm running Linux.

which distri?

> I have an Alphavantage API key.
> 
> A call to
> 
> https://www.alphavantage.co/query?function=SYMBOL_SEARCH&keywords=IBM&apikey=MY_API_KEY
> 
> gives the expected results
> 
>> gnc-fq-check
> 
> gives
> 
> ("1.51" "aex" "alphavantage" "amfiindia" "asegr" "asx" "aufunds"
> "australia" "bamosz" "bet" "bloomberg" "bourso" "bse" "bseindia" "canada"
> "canadamutual" "comdirect" "cse" "deka" "dutch" "dwsfunds" "europe"
> "fetch_live_currencies" "fidelity" "fidelity_direct" "finanzpartner"
> "fondsweb" "fool" "ftfunds" "fundata" "fundlibrary" "goldmoney" "greece"
> "hu" "hufund" "hungary" "hustock" "iexcloud" "india" "indiamutual"
> "known_currencies" "morningstarau" "morningstarjp" "mstaruk" "nasdaq"
> "nseindia" "nyse" "nzx" "onvista" "oslobors" "romania" "seb_funds" "six"
> "tiaacref" "tmx" "tradeville" "troweprice" "troweprice_direct" "tsp"
> "ukfunds" "unionfunds" "usa" "usfedbonds" "yahoo_json" "za")
> 
>> export ALPHAVANTAGE_API_KEY=MY_API_KEY
>> echo $ALPHAVANTAGE_API_KEY
> 
> gives MY_API_KEY correctly.
> 
>> gnc-fq-dump -v alphavantage IBM
> 
> gives
> 
> Finance::Quote fields Gnucash uses:
> symbol: IBM (deduced)<=== required
>   date: ** missing **<=== recommended
>   currency: ** missing **<=== required
>   last: **missing**  <=\
>nav: **missing**  <=== one of these
>  price: **missing**  <=/
>   timezone:  <=== optional
> 
> ** This stock quote cannot be used by GnuCash!
> 
> 
> All fields returned 

Re: [GNC] Trouble with gnc-fq-dump

[Daniel Torstenson]

Ah, your question of which distri led me to the solution. I'm on Arch. I
installed Finance::Quote using gnc-fq-update, without fully realizing it
was about to install a billion perl modules. I think there was probably
some dependency problem. I manually uninstalled those modules (I think!
There were a lot of them!), and installed perl-finance-quote through the
Arch repository. Now it works great!

Thanks for your help!

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 9:37 PM Frank H. Ellenberger <
frank.h.ellenber...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Daniel,
>
> I get:
> > gnc-fq-dump -v alphavantage IBM
> Finance::Quote fields Gnucash uses:
> symbol: IBM  <=== required
>   date: 12/08/2021   <=== recommended
>   currency: USD  <=== required
>   last: 123.0200 <=\
>nav:  <=== one of these
>  price:  <=/
>   timezone:  <=== optional
>
> All fields returned by Finance::Quote for stock IBM
>
> stock   field  value
> -   -  -
> IBM close: 121.5800
> IBM  currency: USD
> IBMcurrency_set_by_fq: 1
> IBM  date: 12/08/2021
> IBM  high: 123.3800
> IBM   isodate: 2021-12-08
> IBM  last: 123.0200
> IBM   low: 121.5200
> IBMmethod: alphavantage
> IBM   net: 1.4400
> IBM  open: 122.
> IBM  p_change: 1.1844
> IBM   success: 1
> IBMsymbol: IBM
> IBMvolume: 5483948
>
> > gnc-fq-dump -v yahoo_json IBM
> Finance::Quote fields Gnucash uses:
> symbol: IBM  <=== required
>   date: 12/08/2021   <=== recommended
>   currency: USD  <=== required
>   last: 123.02   <=\
>nav:  <=== one of these
>  price:  <=/
>   timezone:  <=== optional
>
> All fields returned by Finance::Quote for stock IBM
>
> stock   field  value
> -   -  -
> IBM close: 121.58
> IBM  currency: USD
> IBM  date: 12/08/2021
> IBM div_yield: 5.3791743
> IBM   eps: 5.283
> IBM  exchange: Sourced from Yahoo Finance (as JSON)
> IBM  high: 123.38
> IBM   isodate: 2021-12-08
> IBM  last: 123.02
> IBM   low: 121.52
> IBMmethod: yahoo_json
> IBM  name: IBM (International Business Machines)
> IBM  open: 122
> IBMpe: 23.28601
> IBM   success: 1
> IBMsymbol: IBM
> IBM  type: EQUITY
> IBMvolume: 5454786
> IBMyear_range:112.19885 - 146.11855
>
> > gnc-fq-check
> ("1.51" "aex" "alphavantage" "amfiindia" "asegr" "asx" "aufunds"
> "australia" "bamosz" "bet" "bloomberg" "bourso" "bse" "bseindia"
> "canada" "canadamutual" "comdirect" "cse" "deka" "dutch" "dwsfunds"
> "europe" "fetch_live_currencies" "fidelity" "fidelity_direct"
> "finanzpartner" "fondsweb" "fool" "ftfunds" "fundata" "fundlibrary"
> "goldmoney" "greece" "hu" "hufund" "hungary" "hustock" "iexcloud"
> "india" "indiamutual" "known_currencies" "morningstarau" "morningstarjp"
> "mstaruk" "nasdaq" "nseindia" "nyse" "nzx" "onvista" "oslobors"
> "romania" "seb_funds" "six" "tiaacref" "tmx" "tradeville" "troweprice"
> "troweprice_direct" "tsp" "ukfunds" "unionfunds" "usa" "usfedbonds"
> "yahoo_json" "za")
> > date
> Do 9. Dez 05:16:14 CET 2021
>
> Did you read https://www.alphavantage.co/support/#support about the
> limits of the free key?
>
> But as yahoo is also broken for you, a few steps you could try:
> * Check your network and security (firewall, antivirus…) settings,
> * reinstall F::Q
> * reinstall perl
>
> which distri?
>
> Regards
> Frank
>
> Am 09.12.21 um 00:58 schrieb Daniel Torstenson:
> > Hi, I'm trying to get online quotes to work with Alphavantage, but I'm
> > having trouble. I'd appreciate any pointers for debugging this, as I
> don't
> > see anyone else with this problem after searching the web a little bit.
> >
> > I'm running Linux.
>
> which distri?
>
> > I have an Alphavantage API key.
> >
> > A call to
> >
> >
> https://www.alphavantage.co/query?function=SYMBOL_SEARCH&keywords=IBM&apikey=MY_API_KEY
> >
> > gives the expected results
> >
> >> gnc-fq-check
> >
> > gives
> >
> > ("1.51" "aex" "alphavantage" "amfiindia" "asegr" "asx" "aufunds"
> > "australia" "bamosz" "bet" "bloomberg" "bourso" "bse" "bseindia" "canada"
> > "canadamutual" "comdirect" "cse" "deka" "dutch" "dwsfunds" "europe"
> > "fetch_live_currencies" "fidelity" "fidelity_direct" "finanzpartner"
> > "fondsweb" "fool" "ftfunds" "fundata" "fundlibrary" "goldmoney" "greece"
> > "hu" "hufund" "hungary" "hustock" "iexcloud" "india" "indiamutual"
> > "known_currencies" "morningstarau" "morningstarjp" "mstaruk" "nasdaq"
> > "nseindia" "nyse" "nzx" "onvista" "oslobors" "romania" "seb_funds"