Debugging Wine thoughts

2008-09-10 Thread celticht32
Dan / All,
I think what the guy was asking on improving winedbg is to have some sort of 
visual debugger much like VC/C++ , Eclipse, 
Borland C++ or the like... Where you can step through the code (seeing the 
whole thing like any visual debugger).? 
Then when looking at stacks you? click on a variable or stack and it either 
winds it back or display's it.? 

Below is my thoughts on what would be a nice to have in some form of Debugger / 
Gui Debugger for Wine

So my wish list would be:
1) Some form of a Standard Gui Debugger
2) A way to select? the debug flags used with an explanation of what each is 
for... +sed is for this +relay does that...etc?? 
3) When you do +relay you could open separate output windows for each thread 
4) The ability to turn each of the +relay wine thread output on or off... 
4) Currently Wading through a relay log is a real pain and in some cases it 
prevents the problem from occuring.
??? Time outs because of too much data being collected and then having to wade 
through and determine what to and not to turn off.
??? So a note or best practice somewhere showing the heavy hitters in a +relay 
log? and turn them off by default.? However, note 
??? somewhere saying? if +relay doesnt give enough information then turn on 
just these flag












String additions to 'glib.HEAD'
GNOME Status Pages


Re: String additions to 'glib.HEAD'
Claude Paroz



Re: String additions to 'glib.HEAD'
Alexander Larsson
 


Re: String additions to 'glib.HEAD'
Alexander Larsson


Re: String additions to 'glib.HEAD'
Claude Paroz







 

String additions to 'glib.HEAD'
GNOME Status Pages


String additions to 'glib.HEAD'
GNOME Status Pages

 



 






  
  





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Re: wrong translations of string "Rule" in gtkhtml

2008-09-10 Thread Александър Шопов
> Again, I don't understand why there hasn't been already a bug report
> about this.
Because it is a hassle to bother to file a bug report?

> More than 20 teams HAVE translated those files already, and nobody
> wondered about it or spend a second to think about the potential two
> translations of "rule"?
I thought when translating exactly these. But I suppose most of the
translation teams are way overworked and have to distribute their
resources. I personally am.

My opinion that it is an overkill to file a bug report for this. I would
prefer the first translator that finds out the meaning of the word to
add a comment to the source. The developer would notice immediately and
either leave the comment intact or fix it. Quite a lot of bugs in
Bugzilla rot and these trifle issues can be handled quite effectively
with the workflow I suggest.

If anybody is contemplating doing this, mind that some developers will not like 
this, but I suppose this is a cultural issue and programmers will realize that 
they would prefer somebody else to handle the fixing of such bugs.

> Other example: The string "Use" in another application - verb or noun?
> Why don't you file bugs?
And why did the developer not put the necessary comment? I suppose they do not 
bother too for this is a very non fun thing.

> There must be a bell automatically ringing when you see such strings
> that you try to translate.
Ditto for developers.

> Why isn't this happening? Aren't you
> interested in a good and correct localization of GNOME in your language?
Exactly because of that. Every time I go through Bugzilla I have to
decide whether it is worth the time and effort or should I just keep on
translating and produce a "good and correct localization of GNOME in my
language". This can sound egoistical but there are deadlines we have to
meet especially when there is a release.

> I'm really kind of frustrated about the small number of L10N reports in
> Bugzilla.
> File bugs with L10N/I18N keyword
I am not so sure you should be that frustrated. At least for the
Bulgarian team - we have an internal bug track -
http://fsa-bg.org/project/gtp where we handle these issues faster and
better than in GNOME Bugzilla. Every messages with translator-credits
has a point to the bug tracking system.

Andre, I do not think that filing individual bug reports is the best
solution for now. Initially we would need to point the most common cases
of mistakes (such as the verb/noun thingie you point out). Lets get
these fixed first and then treat the rest in Bugzilla.

Kind regards:
al_shopov
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Re: wrong translations of string "Rule" in gtkhtml

2008-09-10 Thread Åsmund Skjæveland

Andre Klapper skreiv:

One thing I've seen while taking a quick look at translation files of
other languages:

#: ../components/editor/gtkhtml-editor.glade:44
msgid "Rule Properties"
#: ../components/editor/gtkhtml-editor-actions.c:1774
msgid "Insert Rule"
#: ../components/html-editor/GNOME_GtkHTML_Editor-emacs.xml.in.h:135
#: ../components/html-editor/GNOME_GtkHTML_Editor.xml.in.h:135
#: ../components/html-editor/html-editor-control.xml.h:30
msgid "_Rule..."
#: ../components/html-editor/popup.c:475
msgid "Rule Style..."

There seem to be quite a few languages translating this wrong, e.g.
Norwegian and Spanish? (No, I don't speak every language in the world,
hence I didn't check all of them and I may be wrong ;-).
"Rule" refers to a line, like  in HTML (horizontal rule).
This is NOT a rule in the sense of obeying, following, or filtering messages.


Thank you for pointing this out. However, it's obvious that translator 
comments are needed in the source to point this out, since so many have 
made this mistake.


To justify the error:
1) Translators see very little context when translating.
2) A kind of rule I'd expect to find in a mail reader is a mail 
filtering rule, so it's very understandable (imo) that I and others have 
made this mistake.


--
Åsmund Skjæveland
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Re: wrong translations of string "Rule" in gtkhtml

2008-09-10 Thread Andre Klapper
Am Mittwoch, den 10.09.2008, 10:12 +0200 schrieb Åsmund Skjæveland:
> Thank you for pointing this out. However, it's obvious that translator 
> comments are needed in the source to point this out, since so many have 
> made this mistake.

Yes, that's why I already filed a bug report. :-)

andre
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Re: wrong translations of string "Rule" in gtkhtml

2008-09-10 Thread Leonardo F. Fontenelle
Em Qua, 2008-09-10 às 10:13 +0300, Александър Шопов escreveu:
> > Again, I don't understand why there hasn't been already a bug report
> > about this.
> Because it is a hassle to bother to file a bug report?
> 

I agree it's a hassle to file a bug report, specially when you have to
stop your "batch mode" (to quote Knuth[1]). And I agree these bug
reports are very important for us to translate correctly.

Even worse: it seems that providing a patch makes a lot of difference in
having the bug fixed. Those issues should be trivial to fix for
developers and yet very important for translators, but sometimes were
are left without a reply for months (or years). Providing a patch means
that a translator must learn SVN, check out the source code, and
actually read and try to understand it. Does anyone here think it is
reasonable to expect this from a translator?


1. http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/email.html

-- 
Leonardo Fontenelle
http://leonardof.org

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Re: wrong translations of string "Rule" in gtkhtml

2008-09-10 Thread Andre Klapper
Am Mittwoch, den 10.09.2008, 09:08 -0300 schrieb Leonardo F. Fontenelle:
> Even worse: it seems that providing a patch makes a lot of difference in
> having the bug fixed. Those issues should be trivial to fix for
> developers and yet very important for translators, but sometimes were
> are left without a reply for months (or years). Providing a patch means
> that a translator must learn SVN, check out the source code, and
> actually read and try to understand it. Does anyone here think it is
> reasonable to expect this from a translator?

I don't think anybody expects that and I don't think that it's
translators' work to improve the strings. It's developers' work, and to
increase awareness of L10N issues, it's currently the workflow in gnome
to file bugs on that.
If reports got ignored too often, we must escalate more often. (But
normal bugs get ignored quite often too, I don't think that developers
see especially translations as less important.)

Creating a patch is mostly trivial, so I wonder whether adding the
gnome-love keyword would help us in getting more such patches from "code
beginners" that are willing to help improving gnome but search for a
place to start.

andre
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Re: wrong translations of string "Rule" in gtkhtml

2008-09-10 Thread Andre Klapper
Am Mittwoch, den 10.09.2008, 10:13 +0300 schrieb Александър Шопов:
> My opinion that it is an overkill to file a bug report for this. I would
> prefer the first translator that finds out the meaning of the word to
> add a comment to the source. The developer would notice immediately and
> either leave the comment intact or fix it. Quite a lot of bugs in
> Bugzilla rot and these trifle issues can be handled quite effectively
> with the workflow I suggest.

Just do it. I think there will be only very few developers that would
complain about somebody committing a simple "/* comment */" line to the
code (with a correct ChangeLog entry) without asking - IF that happens,
we should punish such developers in public. ;-)

> > Other example: The string "Use" in another application - verb or noun?
> > Why don't you file bugs?
> And why did the developer not put the necessary comment? I suppose
> they do not bother too for this is a very non fun thing.

Err... because I just filed the bug one day ago? If you don't file such
bugs developers will NEVER become more aware of such translation issues
and start to avoid them by adding a translator comment *directly* when
writing that code.
We expect developers to write bug-free code, to be UI experts, to have
accessibility and translations always in mind - but reality is
different, hence we complain to them and have a bug database.

> > There must be a bell automatically ringing when you see such strings
> > that you try to translate.
> Ditto for developers.

Yeah. So let's create that awareness.

> > Why isn't this happening? Aren't you
> > interested in a good and correct localization of GNOME in your language?
> Exactly because of that. Every time I go through Bugzilla I have to
> decide whether it is worth the time and effort or should I just keep on
> translating and produce a "good and correct localization of GNOME in my
> language". This can sound egoistical but there are deadlines we have to
> meet especially when there is a release.

I understand that, hence I especially want those teams that (in my
impression) have larger resources of translators to do this, not the
small teams of 2 or 4 people.
I especially have the Spanish and French team in mind because they've
been starting translating very early in the cycle, way before string
freeze took place.
Jorge, Claude - around?

andre
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Re: wrong translations of string "Rule" in gtkhtml

2008-09-10 Thread Leonardo F. Fontenelle
Em Qui, 2008-09-11 às 00:45 +0200, Andre Klapper escreveu:
> Am Mittwoch, den 10.09.2008, 09:08 -0300 schrieb Leonardo F. Fontenelle:
> > Even worse: it seems that providing a patch makes a lot of difference in
> > having the bug fixed. Those issues should be trivial to fix for
> > developers and yet very important for translators, but sometimes were
> > are left without a reply for months (or years). Providing a patch means
> > that a translator must learn SVN, check out the source code, and
> > actually read and try to understand it. Does anyone here think it is
> > reasonable to expect this from a translator?
> 
> [...]
> 
> Creating a patch is mostly trivial, so I wonder whether adding the
> gnome-love keyword would help us in getting more such patches from "code
> beginners" that are willing to help improving gnome but search for a
> place to start.
> 

I loved the idea!

-- 
Leonardo Fontenelle
http://leonardof.org

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Re: wrong translations of string "Rule" in gtkhtml

2008-09-10 Thread Claude Paroz
Le jeudi 11 septembre 2008 à 00:58 +0200, Andre Klapper a écrit :
> Am Mittwoch, den 10.09.2008, 10:13 +0300 schrieb Александър Шопов:

> 
> > > Why isn't this happening? Aren't you
> > > interested in a good and correct localization of GNOME in your language?
> > Exactly because of that. Every time I go through Bugzilla I have to
> > decide whether it is worth the time and effort or should I just keep on
> > translating and produce a "good and correct localization of GNOME in my
> > language". This can sound egoistical but there are deadlines we have to
> > meet especially when there is a release.
> 
> I understand that, hence I especially want those teams that (in my
> impression) have larger resources of translators to do this, not the
> small teams of 2 or 4 people.
> I especially have the Spanish and French team in mind because they've
> been starting translating very early in the cycle, way before string
> freeze took place.
> Jorge, Claude - around?

Hrm, which Claude ;-) ?

I admit I don't always take the time to report all difficult strings
without context.
And don't be fooled, we aren't such a big team of translators either. We
are only 4-5 regular translators and time also matter for us !
But if everyone does its part. we'll win the world. Yeaaa !

Claude (who may have drunk too much tea...)

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